France gets nuclear fusion plant

[Mr Grimsdale]

France gets nuclear fusion plant (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629239.stm)
France will get to host the project to build a 10bn-euro (£6.6bn) nuclear fusion reactor, in the face of strong competition from Japan.
The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) will be the most expensive joint scientific project after the International Space Station.

The Iter programme was held up for over 18 months as parties tried to broker a deal between the two rivals.

Nuclear fusion taps energy from reactions like those that heat the Sun.

Nuclear fusion is seen as a cleaner approach to power production than nuclear fission and fossil fuels.

Officials from a six-party consortium signed the deal in Moscow on Tuesday, for the reactor's location at the Cadarache site in southern France.

Janez Potocnik, EU commissioner for science and research, said that Iter "marks a major step forward in international science cooperation".

He added: "Now that we have reached consensus on the site for Iter, we will make all efforts to finalise the agreement on the project, so that construction can begin as soon as possible."

Rich reward

The European Union, the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China are partners in the project.

Japan earlier withdrew its bid, after a deal was worked out for the "runner-up" to receive a generous concessions package.

According to the package, Japan will get 20% of the project's 200 research posts while providing only 10% of the expenses, and host a related materials research facility - of which half the construction costs will be shouldered by the EU.

French President Jacques Chirac thanked member countries of the European Union, as well as Russia and China, who crucially lent their support to the French bid: "It is a big success for France, for Europe and for all the partners of Iter," he said in a statement.

Prof Sir Chris Llewellyn Smith, director of UK Atomic Energy Authority's (UKAEA) Culham division, which is responsible for the UK's thermonuclear fusion programme, called the decision "wonderful news".

"Rapid construction of Iter will be a major step in the development of fusion as a potential large-scale source of electricity that will not contribute to climate change," he added.

Earthbound star

The Cadarache site lies about 60km (37 miles) inland from Marseille, and has been a nuclear research centre ever since president Charles de Gaulle launched France's atomic energy programme in 1959.

Local politicians were delighted by the announcement, because it will guarantee thousands of jobs over the coming years.

However, some environmental groups are doubtful about the viability of nuclear fusion, and have warned that Cadarache lies on a known earthquake faultline. The management at Cadarache insists there is no risk to existing or future installations.

In terms of the physics and huge amounts of energy involved, the Iter project would be akin to building a star on Earth.

It would be the first fusion device to produce thermal energy at the level of conventional electricity-producing power stations, and would pave the way for the first prototype commercial power station.

In a fusion reaction, energy is produced when light atoms - the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium - are fused together to form heavier atoms.

To use controlled fusion reactions on Earth as an energy source, it is necessary to heat a gas to temperatures exceeding 100 million Celsius - many times hotter than the centre of the Sun.

The technical requirements to do this, which scientists have spent decades developing, are immense. But the rewards, if Iter can be made to work successfully, are extremely attractive.

One kilogram of fusion fuel would produce the same amount of energy as 10,000,000 kg of fossil fuel.

Fusion does produce radioactive waste but not the volumes of long-term high-level radiotoxic materials that have so burdened nuclear fission.

[BigBadBrian]

Good for France. Let's hope this works out.

:gulp:

[Mr Grimsdale]

Hey, it's good for everyone that finally something is getting done on this. A fusion plant that generates more energy than it uses will be a big achievement for the world.

[Seshmeister]

What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?

you split everything up and turn it fission...



this is good. i'm fine with old school nuclear reactors. yes, you have to deal with the waste. but they don't kill people like the air pollutants in coal-fired reactors.

but there's much less of an argument against a workable fusion reator.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
What happens to a fusion reactor when all the people running it go on strike?

oops, so maybe it should have been built in japan

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
you split everything up and turn it fission...



this is good. i'm fine with old school nuclear reactors. yes, you have to deal with the waste. but they don't kill people like the air pollutants in coal-fired reactors.

but there's much less of an argument against a workable fusion reator.

The only problem here is, what happens if one of these things goes up?

From what I've read, it would make CHERNOBYL and THREE MILE ISLAND look like trash fires.

[DLR'sCock]

This is good news.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The only problem here is, what happens if one of these things goes up?

From what I've read, it would make CHERNOBYL and THREE MILE ISLAND look like trash fires.

eh...three mile island killed no one.

pollution from coal-fired plants does kill people each year.

nuclear power (fission) currently supplies like 20% of the U.S.'s power. with zero deaths attributed to it, as long as we keep (and ideally improve) our current level of safety, i'm happy.

same should hold true for fusion plants.

[Mr Grimsdale]

From what I understand if a fusion reactor "goes up" I wouldn't expect anything other than localised damage (probably anything within 1000km hahaah just kidding). The fusion reaction is only sustained because the plasma is contained within a strong magnetic field at a very high temperature, as soon as either or both of those move away from their optimum value the process stops. That is essentially why the worlds scientists have found it so difficult to achieve.

That's just my understanding so if any of you know different let me know!

[knuckleboner]

but think of the potential deuterium release!!!;)

[DLR'sCock]

FUSION would solve the worlds energy problems, and I don't think the oil companies would like that....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
From what I understand if a fusion reactor "goes up" I wouldn't expect anything other than localised damage (probably anything within 1000km hahaah just kidding). The fusion reaction is only sustained because the plasma is contained within a strong magnetic field at a very high temperature, as soon as either or both of those move away from their optimum value the process stops. That is essentially why the worlds scientists have found it so difficult to achieve.

That's just my understanding so if any of you know different let me know!

You may be correct; but I thought I heard one of the reasons fusion reactors have not been pushed harder in the passed is that they can take out the neighborhood, and most of the city around it, if they go tits-up.

[Nitro Express]

My uncle spent his whole adult life studying fusion at the Los Alamos labs in New Mexico. He graduated in the top 1% at MIT then eventually got his PHD. He taught at both Harvard and MIT but didn't like teaching much. He hired on at Los Alamos and spend almost 40 years there.

He said containing the imense heat was the huge problem and I remember years ago, he mentioned they were trying to use a magnetic field to contain the reaction.

[Mr Grimsdale]

They still use a magnetic field (unless it's any of the cold fusion nonsense), check out the work at the Joint European Torus (near Oxford) or Princeton, there's another facility in Japan somewhere. The difference is that this new reactor should generate more energy than it uses to maintain the temperatures and magnetic field.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You may be correct; but I thought I heard one of the reasons fusion reactors have not been pushed harder in the passed is that they can take out the neighborhood, and most of the city around it, if they go tits-up.

Well, build it somewhere like Mexico.

[bobgnote]

Hemp alcohol and castor oil, agri-waste including a decent measure of hemp from California, was never tried.

The medical weed before the Supremes is false controversy, to suppress hemp as fuel and facts before any drug or energy hearing, which is lots of federal obstruction of justice, from media collusion.

California should never have been 50th of 50 at credit. And when any fusion is containable, the new cruise missiles will be here, and heard about Underdog, he's gonna have his share. THAT means don't kick dawgs and build NUKES, after hiding the damn pot with the faggots, ALL OUR LIVES, nuker shitheads.

Cold fusion media doesn't sell to anyone here, glad to see.

[Loki]

haw haw.the franks. the scourge of midgard. have at thee knaves. huzzah.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Q&A: Nuclear fusion reactor (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4627237.stm)
A decision has finally been made to site the 10bn-euro (£6.6bn) Iter nuclear fusion reactor at Cadarache in France. The announcement brings to an end months of argument between the project partners - the EU, the US, Japan, Russia, China and South Korea.

What is Iter (International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor)?

Iter is an experimental reactor that will attempt to reproduce on Earth the nuclear reactions that power the Sun and other stars. It will consolidate all that has been learnt over many decades of study. If it works, and the technologies are proven to be practical, the international community will then build a prototype commercial reactor, dubbed Demo. The final step would be to roll out fusion technology across the globe.

What exactly is fusion?

Fusion works on the principle that energy can be released by forcing together atomic nuclei rather than by splitting them, as in the case of the fission reactions that drive existing nuclear power stations.

In the core of the Sun, huge gravitational pressure allows this to happen at temperatures of around 10 million degrees Celsius. At the much lower pressure that is possible on Earth, temperatures to produce fusion need to be much higher - above 100 million degrees Celsius.

No materials on Earth could withstand direct contact with such heat. To achieve fusion, therefore, scientists have devised a solution in which a super-heated gas, or plasma, is held and squeezed inside an intense doughnut-shaped magnetic field.

What are the advantages of fusion?

The best fuel for fusion comprises two types, or isotopes, of hydrogen: deuterium and tritium. The former can be derived from water which is abundant and available everywhere. The latter can be produced from lithium, which is plentiful in the Earth's crust.

Unlike the burning of fossil fuels, fusion reactions produce no carbon dioxide, the greenhouse gas blamed by scientists for warming the planet.

Fusion scientists also say the system would be inherently safe because any malfunction would result in a rapid shutdown.

Will Iter produce radioactive waste?

Yes. The neutrons produced in fusion reactions will "activate" the materials used in the walls of Iter's plasma chamber. But one of the project's tasks will be to find the materials that best withstand this bombardment.

This could result in waste materials that are safe to handle in a relatively modest timescale (50-100 years), compared with the much longer lived radioactive waste (many thousands of years) produced as a direct result of splitting atoms in fission reactions.

It has been calculated that after 100 years of post-operation radioactive decay, Iter will be left with about 6,000 tonnes of waste. When packaged, this would be equivalent to a cube with about 10m edges.


How soon will Iter be built?

The 28 June meeting of the Iter partners agreed to site the reactor at Cadarache in southern France over Rokkasho in northern Japan. Further progress on technical issues is still required but it is hoped an agreement can be reached on these by the end of this year, so that Iter construction can begin by the end of 2005.

How much will Iter cost?

Iter construction costs are estimated at 4.57 billion euros (at 2000 prices), to be spread over about 10 years. Estimated total operating costs over the expected operational lifetime of about 20 years are of a similar order.

How will Iter be financed?

The EU and France will contribute 50% of the construction costs and the other five parties will each contribute 10%. Because Japan agreed to stand aside in favour of Cadarache, the nation gets favourable terms. Japan will get to host a related materials research facility - of which half the construction costs will be shouldered by the EU. Its scientists will get a larger share of Iter's research posts.

The EU will now support a Japanese official to become the director-general of the Iter project; and will also back Japan to host the Demo fusion reactor if, or when, it gets built.

Why is the EU so keen to host the reactor?

Iter will require considerable investment from all six partners, but the potential pay-offs are thought to be well worth it.

Hosting the experimental reactor will put the EU at the front of the queue to take commercial advantage of fusion.

The project is expected to generate more than 10,000 jobs and the expertise developed on Iter will allow Europe to reap the benefits of spin-off technologies.

Why is fusion energy seen to be so desirable?

We cannot rely on fossil fuels indefinitely. Firstly, supplies of oil, coal and gas are finite and will eventually run down. Secondly, the greenhouse gases produced through the burning of fossil fuels are a major driver of climate change, scientists believe.

However, demand for energy is also increasing. In 1990, about 75% of the world's population (those in the developing countries) were responsible for only 33% of the world's energy consumption.

By the year 2020, that 75% is likely to have risen to 85% and the energy consumption to around 55%. Thus, there will be greater competition for the fuel resources available.

Some think fusion will provide a relatively safe, green alternative to fossil fuels; enabling the production of vast amounts of energy from abundant sources.

When will the first commercial fusion reactor be built?

Not for a long time. Experimental fusion reactors like the Joint European Torus (Jet) at Culham in the UK currently use more energy than they release.

There are therefore many major scientific and engineering hurdles to overcome before the technology becomes commercially viable. A commercial reactor is not expected before 2045 or 2050 - if at all. Indeed, there is no guarantee that Iter will succeed.

The running joke is that fusion has been "just decades away" for several decades.

And many commentators, particularly those greens who have fought long campaigns against nuclear fission, are deeply suspicious of fusion.

They doubt Iter will deliver and believe the money earmarked for the project would be better spent on renewables, such as wind, wave and solar, for which technical solutions already exist.

[bobgnote]

Originally posted by Loki
haw haw.the franks. the scourge of midgard. have at thee knaves. huzzah.

They have this bridge built down there, somewhere, made of calcified hemp-hurds. According to jack herer's book, The Emp has No Clothes, there is a product called Isochanvre, you web up all the cool stuff like this and adding rice starch to cement, and bridges get built, bridges stay up.

Frog on easy but fierce and correctly, like Lance.

wacks think they can hold hot shit
wacks gotta learn to duck before you fly
wacks gotta learn to count before talking amount
wacks missed the boat to cost accounting and ethics
wacks got smoke, mirrors, hand on dick, talk about holding WHAT?!

wacky asses gotta spend to make, and YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH YOUR DICKS.:confused: