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BigBadBrian
07-02-2005, 09:00 AM
Dishonoring the fallen
Oliver North

July 1, 2005


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- "Our son was killed in Iraq. Though we miss him terribly, we're grateful that FOX News was there to tell the story. Thank you for your coverage. We now know more about the heroism of all the U.S. and Iraqi troops and the positive changes they are bringing about."

That excerpt, from a letter sent by bereaved parents grieving the loss of a son in Iraq, is typical of the mail I receive each time I return from Iraq and Afghanistan. After eight trips to where the Global War on Terrorism is being fought every day by soldiers, sailors, airmen, Guardsmen and Marines, I now have scores of such missives. They have come from parents, spouses, siblings and the children of the fallen. Their letters are always full of pain, often eloquent, and invariably hopeful that the sacrifice made by their loved ones will not have been in vain.

On Tuesday evening, less than a week before we celebrate the 229th anniversary of American independence, President Bush spoke to the world about the war in which these young Americans fell. Standing before soldiers and their families at Fort Bragg, N.C. -- an audience of those who serve in mortal danger -- the president made an articulate and persuasive presentation on why winning this war is a moral imperative for this nation and what it will take to do so. Sadly, the so-called "loyal opposition" and much of our mainstream media seem not to have heard. In their efforts to disparage the commander in chief, they denigrate those who serve in harm's way, and dishonor the fallen.

The applause at the home of the Airborne and Special Operations Forces had barely stopped before the left-leaning leadership of the Democrat Party launched a vicious partisan riposte aimed at gaining political advantage at the expense of our troops. The remarkable similarity of their hollow critique offers evidence of their desperation.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said, "The president's frequent references to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 show the weakness of his arguments. He is willing to exploit the sacred ground of Sept. 11, knowing that there is no connection between Sept. 11 and the war in Iraq."

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., apparently forgetting that he voted for Operation Iraqi Freedom, offered a parallel response: "The president's numerous references to Sept. 11 did not provide a way forward in Iraq. They only served to remind the American people that our most dangerous enemy, namely Osama bin Laden, is still on the loose and Al Qaeda remains capable of doing this nation great harm." He then added, "'Staying the course,' as the president advocates, is neither sustainable nor likely to lead to the success we all seek."

Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., rushed to the microphones and listed the various countries from which the Sept. 11 attackers had originated. He then observed breathlessly, "There were no Iraqis."

Former presidential candidate John Forbes Kerry accused the president of creating a "third rationale" for the war: "The first, of course, was weapons of mass destruction. The second was democracy. And now, tonight, it's to combat the hotbed of terrorism."

"No connection between Sept. 11 and the war in Iraq." "No way forward." "A third rationale." All of these statements from the leaders of the radical political left were not only echoed throughout the Islamic world by Al Jazeera, they also deny the reality of what Bush has been saying ever since this war began.

Nine days after the Sept. 11 attack that murdered nearly 3,000 innocent men, women and children on American soil, President Bush said: "Our war on terror begins with Al Qaeda, but it does not end there. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. … The only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it and destroy it where it grows."

Four months later, in his 2002 State of the Union Address, Bush told the world: "Our discoveries in Afghanistan confirmed our worst fears, and showed us the true scope of the task ahead. Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun. This campaign may not be finished on our watch -- yet it must be and it will be waged on our watch."

On Tuesday evening, President Bush once again enumerated the threats we face, articulated a strategy for victory so that our troops can come home and reaffirmed his resolve: "After September the 11th, I made a commitment to the American people: This nation will not wait to be attacked again. We will defend our freedom. We will take the fight to the enemy. Iraq is the latest battlefield in that war. Our mission in Iraq is clear. We're hunting down terrorists. We're helping Iraqis build a free nation that is an ally in the war on terror. We are removing a source of violence and instability, and laying the foundation of peace for our children and our grandchildren."

The leaders of the Democrat Party disagree with the president's assessment. It would have been interesting had any of the "reporters" covering these critics asked the question of Pelosi or Reid, Reed and Kerry: If you don't want to hunt down terrorists in Mosul, Ramadi or Al Qa'im, Iraq, would you rather we hunted for them in San Francisco, Las Vegas, Providence or Boston?

The president has consistently presented facts that the liberal leaders of the Democrat Party don't like, but that doesn't change the facts. Though they offer no alternative, they say that we cannot "stay the course." Such rhetoric not only encourages our adversaries, it dishonors those who have fallen.


Link (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ollienorth/on20050701.shtml)

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 09:16 AM
How is exercising "free specch", and questioning your government "dishonoring the fallen"

Haven't the fallen soldiers paid the ultimate price to PROTECT our rights and freedoms?

Aren't we indeed honoring them by holding the people who led us here accountable?

And isn't lying to Congress dishonoring the fallen?




The sickness I feel inside is the for those who fell for a LIE

blueturk
07-02-2005, 09:29 AM
North states that " Nine days after the Sept. 11 attack that murdered nearly 3,000 innocent men, women and children on American soil, President Bush said: "Our war on terror begins with Al Qaeda, but it does not end there. Our enemy is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen. … The only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it and destroy it where it grows."


And nine minutes after the Sept. 11 attacks, Dudya was reading a book to school children in Florida. Six months later Bush said that he didn't care where bin Laden was, and bin Laden was "not a priority".

Va Beach VH Fan
07-02-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
How is exercising "free specch", and questioning your government "dishonoring the fallen"

Exactly...

It seems that's the popular thing to do, in the right-wing point of view....

Don't confuse, or shall I say, convolute, disagreeing with POLICY with support for the troops...

The troops just follow orders, it's the illadvised policy that's the issue...

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian


The president has consistently presented facts that the liberal leaders of the Democrat Party don't like, but that doesn't change the facts. Though they offer no alternative, they say that we cannot "stay the course." Such rhetoric not only encourages our adversaries, it dishonors those who have fallen.




Jesus.:rolleyes:

The irony in that paragraph is mind blowing.

We CREATED a radical islamic's wet dream over there.

We've been played.:mad:

DrMaddVibe
07-02-2005, 10:44 AM
Yeah, it would be better if we just come home.

It would be better if we never went into Iraq.

It would be better if we never went into Afghanistan.

It would be better to let terrorists come to our country and carry out whatever diabolical plots their jihad tells them to with promises of virgins from Allah waiting.

GROW A FUCKING SPINE AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Yeah, it would be better if we just come home.

It would be better if we never went into Iraq.

TRUE


It would be better if we never went into Afghanistan.

NOT TRUE

It would be better to let terrorists come to our country and carry out whatever diabolical plots their jihad tells them to with promises of virgins from Allah waiting.

HOW DID OCCUPYING IRAQ PREVENT THIS??????



GROW A FUCKING SPINE AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!

I have a spine, and I won't shut the fuck up, it's called FREE SPEECH








:cool:

DrMaddVibe
07-02-2005, 10:50 AM
Yeah dickhead...I just excersised my free speech.

and no you clearly don't have a spine. You're a fucking crybaby worm rolling on the ground pranting on about the military when in fact there are better men than YOU making decisions that will force the fundamentalist muslims out into the open.

You have no impact on any decisions the Pentagon or the White House makes so shut the fuck up like you have some authority. You don't.

Va Beach VH Fan
07-02-2005, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
It would be better if we never went into Afghanistan.


I don't think anyone should disagree with the deployment of troops into Afghanistan....

After all, that's where Bin Laden was hiding at the time, apparently....

They should have concentrated their efforts on getting Bin Laden, instead of pulling troops from there so they could redeploy to Iraq....

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe




You have no impact on any decisions the Pentagon or the White House makes so shut the fuck up like you have some authority. You don't.


I'm sorry.

I had NO IDEA you were a policy advisor to this administration:rolleyes:

I had no idea you possessed such authority yourself.

I look forward to your defense of Rummy's "plan", or the Chimp's for that matter:cool:

It's nice to know we have someone with AUTHORITY to speak for this administration in here.

By all means, enlighten us to the strategic inner workings of Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rummy/Wolfie/Bremer/Perle/Chalabi :rolleyes:

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
I don't think anyone should disagree with the deployment of troops into Afghanistan....

After all, that's where Bin Laden was hiding at the time, apparently....

They should have concentrated their efforts on getting Bin Laden, instead of pulling troops from there so they could redeploy to Iraq....

EXACTLY

But it looks like we haven't even "accomplished that mission" yet.

Losing 16 men to a rag tag group of Taliban leftovers???

Afghanistan is back to being the world's poppy supplier?

Still no Bin Laden?

We should have FINISHED that job first.

[ but what do I know, I have no authority with the Pentagon or the White House:rolleyes: ]

DrMaddVibe
07-02-2005, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I'm sorry.

I had NO IDEA you were a policy advisor to this administration:rolleyes:

I had no idea you possessed such authority yourself.

I look forward to your defense of Rummy's "plan", or the Chimp's for that matter:cool:

It's nice to know we have someone with AUTHORITY to speak for this administration in here.

By all means, enlighten us to the strategic inner workings of Bush/Cheney/Rice/Rummy/Wolfie/Bremer/Perle/Chalabi :rolleyes:


See this is where YOU think your Monday morning QB'ing is scoring points...it isn't. Badmouthing what is going on plays into who's hands?

The old adage "loose lips sink ships" doesn't mean a damn thing to you but to those that did take an oath to defend the Constitution it does.

I don't expect someone like you to comprehend the planning that goes into one battle much less a war. You're punch drunk from Hollywood where guns have an endless supply of ammo and every bullet finds a target. It doesn't happen like that.

Do I wish things were different? Yeah. Do I believe that I have the answers to this? No. Bleating on and on that you don't like Bush, the military, Rush, FoxNews is so stale...I'm even sick of your bullshit with Jester! Your whole act is stale, bitter and falling on deaf ears. I sure as hell am not going to listen to the obstreperous rantings of a self-described musician with a penchant for military deployment capabilities!

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
I sure as hell am not going to listen to the obstreperous rantings of a self-described musician with a penchant for military deployment capabilities!

Wanna Bet ?

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe


The old adage "loose lips sink ships" doesn't mean a damn thing to you but to those that did take an oath to defend the Constitution it does.



I forgot the "insurgents" monitor this forum for ideas on how to better kill our men and women :rolleyes:

We should all just shut up, drink the kool-ade, and follow our leaders blindly, right assvibe?

Some of us prefer to think for ourselves. And we think this war was for profit and agenda, not to fight "terror"

You are free to think what you want, without us telling you to shut up.

And we'll continue to call BULLSHIT on the men PLANNING this war, and continue to support the men and women FIGHTING this war.

Don't like it? Fuck if I care.

:cool:

ODShowtime
07-02-2005, 11:34 AM
I don't think it takes a military genius to see we failed in Afghanistan. What was the mission objective? Capture Bin Laden and destroy the Taliban. Has that been achieved? HAS THAT FUCKING BEEN ACHIEVED? NO.

Why? Well one reason could be the under-deployment of US troops and farming the most important mission in the last decade out to god-damn afghanis!

Why? Because Iraq was already planned and that's where the money was!!

WAKE THE FUCK UP AND PUT THE FACTS IN THE PROPER ORDER AND PERSPECTIVE. PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT SHOULD BE.

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe

Your whole act is stale, bitter and falling on deaf ears.

My posts sure get alot of responses from your deaf ears ;)

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think it takes a military genius to see we failed in Afghanistan. What was the mission objective? Capture Bin Laden and destroy the Taliban. Has that been achieved? HAS THAT FUCKING BEEN ACHIEVED? NO.

Why? Well one reason could be the under-deployment of US troops and farming the most important mission in the last decade out to god-damn afghanis!

Why? Because Iraq was already planned and that's where the money was!!

WAKE THE FUCK UP AND PUT THE FACTS IN THE PROPER ORDER AND PERSPECTIVE. PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT SHOULD BE.

Jesus, can it get any clearer than THIS POST????



OD is right, AND IT'S TIME TO CALL IT FOR WHAT IT IS.

A FAILURE


What's wrong with regrouping, reevaluating, and GETTING IT DONE RIGHT BY THOSE WHO PLANNED IT FROM THE START.

:cool:

ODShowtime
07-02-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Jesus, can it get any clearer than THIS POST????

Lounge, it's right there in front of everyone.

I guess I should take solace in what Dr.MV said that we really have no say in anything. That makes me feel better. Fuck it. But I still bitch, because that is my way.

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Lounge, it's right there in front of everyone.

I guess I should take solace in what Dr.MV said that we really have no say in anything. That makes me feel better. Fuck it. But I still bitch, because that is my way.

We have as much say as he does.

His vote doesn't count more than ours [ Diebold not withstanding]

It does feel better to at least let our opinions be known.

We WON'T "shut the fuck up"

:cool:

ODShowtime
07-02-2005, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

It does feel better to at least let our opinions be known.

We WON'T "shut the fuck up"

:cool:

We have to do something other than make fun of people for their cock-hunger all day. :D

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
We have to do something other than make fun of people for their cock-hunger all day. :D


Killjoy:D

ODShowtime
07-02-2005, 11:51 AM
What's your take on Afghanistan in 2005 BBB? Do you have an opinion you'd like to share?

LoungeMachine
07-02-2005, 11:57 AM
Bri has been coming down pretty hard on Rummy as of late.

It's encouraging to see.

ODShowtime
07-02-2005, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Bri has been coming down pretty hard on Rummy as of late.

It's encouraging to see.

he never answers me when I directly question him in his own threads. I guess I still don't have enough seniority yet :rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
07-02-2005, 03:31 PM
An op-ed by Oliver North never fails to draw a response. :D

The question of Afghanistan is a complex one...I suggest people read "Al Qaeda's Great Escape: The Military And The Media On Terror's Trail ." (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1574886290/qid=1120331987/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7875551-7691913?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) It gives a pretty good look at how Rummy the Dummy screwed the pooch in letting bin Laden go in Nov-Dec of 2001.

Anyway, the battle for Afghanistan and bin Laden isn't over yet. Just because you don't hear about it in the main stream media doesn't mean the fighting is done. Actually, due to cultural constraints and political maneuvering, sometimes our forces are rather "tied up" when it comes to chasing bin Laden. It kind of sucks when US and coalition forces are not authorized in certain parts of the country. That's what fucked up the chase for bin Laden at Tora Bora in 2001.

We need to decide what is more important: catching bin Laden or stepping on a few toes of the Afghan warlords who probably know where bin Laden is anyway and are just using us to get rich.

Cathedral
07-02-2005, 05:02 PM
Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., apparently forgetting that he voted for Operation Iraqi Freedom, offered a parallel response: "The president's numerous references to Sept. 11 did not provide a way forward in Iraq. They only served to remind the American people that our most dangerous enemy, namely Osama bin Laden, is still on the loose and Al Qaeda remains capable of doing this nation great harm." He then added, "'Staying the course,' as the president advocates, is neither sustainable nor likely to lead to the success we all seek."

The above quote is 200% dangerous to our troops in theater.
Only it is the last part that does ALL the damage.

If we have officials in public view making claims that "We can't win", that only bolsters the resolve of the enemy and soldiers die because of that morale boost.
That is NOT supporting the troops, it is adding shit to their plate which by the way is already full.

Freedom of Speech is a good thing, we should all question the policies of our government when things don't add up.
But citing Freedom of Speech is no excuse for expressing that freedom carelessly while our families, friends and neighbors are face to face with the enemy.

I don't want anyone to shut up, but i do want to see some restraint in the words used by our elected officials that clearly make the troops jobs tougher and more deadly.
A lot of the things i have read and heard since "You Decide 2000" have been founded in hatred and contempt for one man, that is NOT what i call Freedom of Speech being used responsibly.

It would make my day if every single person who has an opinion would take a moment to stop and think of what effect their comments will have on the troops before they open their mouths.

They are not the one's with the luxery of sitting behind a pc debating these issues. they are the one's in uniform dodging bullets, RPG's and roadside bombs.
To me it all boils down to a complete lack of respect for the job they were sent to do.
You can agree with the Iraq war or you can disagree with it, that right has been purchased for us all by the blood of an entire history of fallen soldiers in this country.

But dammit, there have been many things said that should have been toned down, if for nothing else, our troops.

Calling into question the policy of this Admin. is a good thing in my opinion. I just don't think that most of the people attacking those policies understands that their attacks actually attack the soldiers as well.
Remember, the soldiers had as much say in where they were deployed as we did, which is none.

And for anyone who has asked if they would send their children off to a war i want to point out that the parents aren't sending their children off to any place, they enlisted in the service and "chose" to serve in whatever capacity they were ordered to serve.

They deserve more respect than they are being given in these political debates, and they do pay a price for the negative things being reported around the world.

All i ask is that people think real hard before they say anything and that they make absolutely sure that our troops are not in the crossfire fueled by political posturing.

My concern is not for an (R) or a (D), it is for the safe return of our fighting men and women that fight for us, wherever they were sent in the past or will be sent in the future.

The Politics Be Damned!

BigBadBrian
07-02-2005, 09:47 PM
I'll bet Harry Reid would be saying the war was winnable if John F. Kerry was President right now. It's all about POLITICS. At least that's what he was saying during the campaign.

:(