Our 9/11

[John Ashcroft]

In the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on our country, the families of those who perished on that day became forever linked through our shared anguish and grief. But "the 9/11 families" are not a monolithic group that speaks in one voice, and nothing has made that more clear than the controversy over the Bush campaign ads.

It is one thing for individual family members to invoke the memory of all 3,000 victims as they take to the microphone or podium to show respect for our collective loss. It is another for them to attempt to stifle the debate over the future direction of our country by declaring that the images of 9/11 should be off-limits in the presidential race, and to do so under the rubric of "The Families of Sept. 11." They do not represent me. Nor do they represent those Americans who feel that Sept. 11 was a defining moment in the history of our country and who want to know how the current or future occupant of the Oval Office views the lessons of that day.

The images of Ground Zero, the Pentagon and Shanksville have been plastered over coffee mugs, T-shirts, placemats, book covers and postage stamps, all without a peep from many of these family members. I suspect that the real outrage over the ads has more to do with context than content. It's not the pictures that disturb them so much as the person who is using them. This is demonstrated in their affiliation with Moveon.org, a rabidly anti-Bush group that sponsored a rally they held last Friday calling for the president to pull his ads off the air. But by disingenuously declaring themselves "non-partisan" and insisting that it is a matter of "taste," they retain a powerful weapon that they have learned to exploit to their advantage. They are "9/11 family members" and therefore enjoy the cloak of deference that has been graciously conferred upon them by the public, politicians and, most significantly, the media.

The leader of a lobbying group advised individuals at a 9/11 family meeting shortly after the attacks: "Make no mistake, you have a lot of power. Politicians are more afraid of you than you know." They know. As "relatives of 9/11 victims," they are virtually immune to challenge on the issue of who should have the loudest voice regarding the legacy of this national tragedy.
But this was a tragedy that was experienced and felt not just by us, but by all Americans. The American people responded to the horrors of that day with unflinching courage and an outpouring of love, support and empathy, the memory of which fills me with a gratitude that I can never repay. We families received cards, letters, homemade quilts bearing the names and likenesses of our lost loved ones, hand-lettered drawings from whole classrooms of children, and an unprecedented amount of charitable funds that sustained and continue to sustain those in need more than two years later.

These Americans, most of whom I will never have the privilege of meeting, also gave us something even more precious. When the planes hit the buildings and the towers fell, some of their sons and daughters balled up their fists and determined then and there that they wanted to "do something" about it. Those who donned the uniforms of our Armed Forces in order to fight the war on terrorism are not offended by the images of Ground Zero. On the contrary, they are moved and inspired by them.

Whatever these 9/11 families may think of the president's foreign policy or the war in Iraq, I ask them to reconsider the language and tone of their statements. We should not tolerate or condone remarks such as those of the 9/11 relative who, so offended by the campaign ads, said that he "would vote for Saddam Hussein before I would vote for Bush." The insult was picked up and posted on Al-Jazeera's Web site. In view of the sacrifice our troops have made on our behalf, this insensitivity to them and their families suggests a level of self-indulgence and ingratitude that shocks the conscience.

George W. Bush says that his presidency is inspired by an enduring obligation to those who lost their lives on that brutal September morning. The images of that day stand as an everlasting example of our country's darkest day and finest hour. They are a vivid reminder of the strength and resilience of our great country. They belong to us all--including this president. Let the candidates make their own choices. I trust the American people.

Ms. Burlingame, a life-long Democrat, is the sister of Charles F. "Chic" Burlingame, III, captain of American Airlines flight 77, which was crashed at the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

Link:
here (http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110004787)

[Wayne L.]

I think the terrorists attacks of 9/11 on the WTC & the Pentagon brought our country symbolically together even though politically we were still a divided nation but the war on terror has been won in Afghanistan & even the war in Iraq despite differences between the American people even though looking back on it 4 years later 9/11 was really a local event shown on national television which politicians from both political parties will use for the next ten years.

[ashstralia]

you guys probably know this, but here in australia we are fully supportive of your military. we have a long history of this. personally, when you were attacked on 9/11 i felt i was attacked too, and i was vindicated when our pm sent troops immediately. pres. bush is a hero of mine. i am old enough to remember pres bush snr, and i thought he was a good president too. (regardless of that simpsons episode).
i would also love to have a terminator as a governor!!!!
i'll be back!!!

[John Ashcroft]

Welcome to the board. Now let me get this straight, whay you're saying is that the entire world doesn't see Bush as the new Hitler???

I'm confused now. Our press and the international press has been saying that everyone hates George Bush. It's just got to be true! Even our new JFK said that "leaders" from foreign countries were practically begging him to beat our President...

[FORD]

Wow, Rupert Murdoch is a DLR fan! Who knew?

[knuckleboner]

of COURSE it's context that's the problem. though, i doubt it matters that it's bush. if kerry, or dean, or nader, or ANYONE used the images in campaign commercials, the response would be the same.

when the families see pictures of the fallen towers, they're not seeing the attack on america. they're seeing the grave of their child, spouse, parent, sibling. and not just the grave, but the site of their murder, as well.

just because all of america felt attacked that day, doesn't mean that the images mean the same thing to everyone.

i'm not saying that bush is evil for using the commercials. or even that he shouldn't have used them. but anyone who can't see why the families of the victims might feel a little more strongly about the issue than the average american is missing the point.

[John Ashcroft]

Actually, I posted this because there have been 4 family members of 9/11 coached to slam the President for the ads. It was pathetic. All of them parroted the same DNC talking points, and tried to pretend it was from the heart. And they were on different networks, mind you. Not all sitting together in front of a single interviewer. The Dems have done exactly what they're accusing the Pres of doing (I know, surprise surprise!). They've found some victims to be political hacks for them. And they ought to be disgusted with themselves.

Anyway, this person's simply stating that those 4 don't speak for all the families (but they acted as they did). Didn't we post the other side of this yet? Let me look, and I'll post it if not.

[ELVIS]

Well yesterday, Rush Limbaugh played the soundbytes of the 911 families who spoke out against the commercials...

They were almost identical!

[knuckleboner]

eh...if they're speaking for a group that hasn't approved them to speak for it, then the 4 members are definitley wrong in how they're going about it. no question.

however, either way, it seemed like the author was also suggesting that, "Nor do they represent those Americans who feel that Sept. 11 was a defining moment in the history of our country and who want to know how the current or future occupant of the Oval Office views the lessons of that day."

again, just because we all suffered in some form on 9/11 (and we all did) doesn't mean that immediate family members of the victims should be viewed from the same perspective as the average American in situations like this.

[ELVIS]

Right. Immediate family members should not be used as political pawns...

Sickening...

[John Ashcroft]

Exactly Elvis. And those people were (quite obviously). Which means somebody in the Democratic party put them up to it (and of course we're finding out the Kerry's wife fund the group these 4 associate themselves with). I guess I should be happy that the dems are this desperate, but I'm actually sickened by this.

[ELVIS]

Their words...

VOICE I: I think for someone like President Bush who has not cooperated with this commission, who has stonewalled this commission.

VOICE II: This president and his administration blocked the creation of the commission, have stonewalled the commission.

VOICE I: If this was realistic from the morning of September 11th, it would show President Bush before a group of school children listening to them read, while the twin towers were burning.

VOICE II: If he wants to show a picture of 9-11 depicting what he was doing, it should be a picture of him sitting and reading in a classroom to school children. That's where he was on 9-11.

VOICE I: And we need to find out why 3,000 people were murdered on his watch.

VOICEII: Well, you know, this happened on his watch.

Hmmm...

[John Ashcroft]

OK, there's the beginning:

Bush Campaign Vows to Keep Controversial Ads on Air

Mar. 5 - The Bush campaign, stung by the uproar over its 9/11 ads, vigorously defended the controversial spots yesterday and vowed to keep them on the air.

Amid a furious counterattack spearheaded by former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and presidential confidant Karen Hughes, one top Bush political strategist said the spots might now be shown in even more media markets than the original buy.

The first three ads began airing yesterday on cable networks and in at least 17 states.

"This is part of the President's record," Giuliani told the Daily News. "It's part of history. He did such a good job it would almost be false advertising not to include images of 9/11."

Asked whether the Bush campaign had asked him to step forward to help quell the firestorm from families of the Ground Zero dead and Democratic detractors, Giuliani added: "I volunteered to do it. When we saw the ads, we called them."

The ex-mayor's "part of history" remark was recycled throughout the day by presidential defenders, many of them recruited by Bush political aides stung by the vehemence of the backlash from the families.

"Sept. 11 is not some distant event in the past," Hughes told ABC. "It's also important to recognize the impact it had on our national public policy."

The clamor over the ads will continue today when one group of 9/11 families assembles at Ground Zero to demand that Bush pull the commercials.

The September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows quoted Bush saying on Jan. 23, "I have no ambition whatsoever to use [9/11] as a political issue." The dovish group also has opposed the Iraq war.

Some Bush supporters conceded the Ground Zero footage, particularly a fleeting glimpse of flag-draped remains being removed from the wreckage, may have been a political miscue.

The campaign "could have just used the building," said one Republican, referring to a shot of the scarred facade of one of the twin towers.

Another local Republican official was harsher, saying the Bush camp misjudged the local impact.

"They messed it up," the source said.

A GOP congressional source said, "It's an early warning to Republicans that it's a risk to be using 9/11 images. . . . If there's a backlash because of it, it does more to hurt than to help."

Several GOP sources said Team Bush had been warned about the need to tread carefully with Ground Zero images and should have tested the ads with New York focus groups to check for possible trouble.

Meanwhile, a new poll showed Bush tied with Democratic challenger John Kerry, with independent candidate Ralph Nader at 6 percent.

The survey, conducted by The Associated Press and Ipsos-Public Affairs, reinforced Democrats' fears that Nader could cost Kerry the election.

Link: here (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/national/8111980.htm)

And protestors from "The September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows" worked the television circuit. This story makes them seem like just a small scale lobbying group. Wrong they were (see next post)

[John Ashcroft]

I posted this in another thread, but for your convenience I'll post it here as well.

(MRS.) KERRY'S CASH CONNECTION

March 9, 2004 -- To hear some folks tell it, families of the 9/11 victims have risen en masse to denounce President Bush for using brief images from Ground Zero in his campaign commercials.
We have no doubt that the use of the images is appropriate - given that the president's leadership in the wake of 9/11, and his conduct of the War on Terror, are under drumbeat assault by John Kerry and the Democrats.

But now it turns out that this whole furor is driven by a tiny group that's motivated by a far-left agenda and a festering hatred of the president - and has some quite dubious financial ties.

Leading the rhetorical charge has been an outfit called September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows - which, the group admits, has only a few dozen members and represents relatives of no more than 1 percent of the 9/11 victims.

More to the point, the group was formed specifically to oppose the entire War on Terror: Not just the campaign against Saddam Hussein, but also the toppling of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Indeed, the group's leaders traveled to Afghanistan, drawing a detestable moral equivalence between the 9/11 attacks and U.S. bombing of the Taliban and opposing "violent responses to terrorism."

Then, before the onset of Operation Iraqi Freedom, a Peaceful Tomorrows delegation went to Baghdad to "demonstrate solidarity" with Iraqis - a move that Saddam's deputy, Tariq Aziz, termed at the time "a very important international development."

They also demanded that Congress set up a $20 million fund to compensate Afghan "victims" of the U.S. military.

And back in January 2003, the group said had it had gotten a "verbal commitment" to the fund proposal from the junior senator from Massachusetts - John F. Kerry.

Little surprise there - because Peaceful Tomorrows' parent group, the San Francisco-based Tides Foundation, has received millions from foundations controlled by Kerry's heiress wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry.

A spokesman for Kerry insists that her donations to Tides were earmarked specifically for environmental charities based in Pennsylvania. But money is fungible - and the Tides Foundation has a lot more than greening the earth on its plate.

It has given millions to anti-war groups since 9/11 - particularly the extremist MoveOn.org.

Tides has also funded groups like United for a Fair Economy, which has been involved in violent anti-globalization street protests.

For example, the Ruckus Society, which was largely responsible for the anarchy in Seattle in 1999 and trains would-be environmental terrorists in the practice of "monkey-wrenching" - the willful destruction of construction equipment and so on.

Tides gets much of its funds from philanthropists like Mrs. Kerry and billionaire George Soros - who has made defeating President Bush his top personal priority.

As Richard Berman, director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, told Congress in 2002: "The Tides Foundation distributes other foundations' money, while shielding the identity of the actual donors."

Call it charitable money-laundering.

This, then, is the fringe crowd that declares itself "offended" by the Bush ads.

They're people who are offended by anything this president does - and they are working hard to put John Kerry in the White House.

Remember that the next time you hear a news report about "widespread popular outrage."

Link: here (http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/20231.htm)

[Jesus Christ]

Here's a letter to the New York Post
The worst piece of paper on the east coast
Matter of fact the whole state forty cents
in New York City fifty cents elsewhere
It makes no goddamn sense at all
America's oldest continuously published daily piece of bullshit - Chuck D

[Jesus Christ]

Yes, the Messiah listeneth to rap! Don't act like ye are shocked.

[ELVIS]

Dude.. you're twisted.. I'll pray for you brother...

The article Ashcroft posted is true and you know it...

[Dr. Love]

That's pretty disturbing if the Democrats put these people up to it, and shame on them, and the families that went along with it.

And shame on any politician that wants to try to capitalize off of any tragedy. KB is right -- they're turning 3,000 graves and 3,000 murders into a 30 second slot on TV to further their own campaign.

Shame on Bush for doing it, and shame on anyone else for doing it. There are different ways to get the message across.

[ELVIS]

There is nothing wrong with using the truth! 9/11 happened and it's truth is fair game in this election...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
That's pretty disturbing if the Democrats put these people up to it, and shame on them, and the families that went along with it.

And shame on any politician that wants to try to capitalize off of any tragedy. KB is right -- they're turning 3,000 graves and 3,000 murders into a 30 second slot on TV to further their own campaign.

Shame on Bush for doing it, and shame on anyone else for doing it. There are different ways to get the message across.


Is your last name Kerry ??

Get on one side of the fence...

[Dr. Love]

I don't have to get on any side of the fence. I don't believe in an "us versus them" mentality when it comes to Americans. We're all in this together. Faction is a big problem in this country, and always has been.

9/11 happened, and you can talk about it all you want. Like I said, there are other ways than showing people being killed on TV during your campaign spot.

I can see all the death I want on TV and in film, and I don't have a problem with it. But I'd expect my President, especially one that campaigned last time on morality, to hold himself higher than that.

[ELVIS]

You have to stand for something...

[Dr. Love]

by that, I take it that you mean I should be partisan. Where has that gotten the major political parties?

I'm happy being an independant, with my own views that don't quite line up on any party line. I can agree or disagree with something, without taking on the view that either "side" is my "enemy".

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by ELVIS
There is nothing wrong with using the truth! 9/11 happened and it's truth is fair game in this election...


Gregory, I , as ye know, AM the Truth, and so I can say upon My own Authority that ye can not even begin to imagine what the Truth of that terrible day is. And things are not as the Son of Bush tells you. And verily, that is all I can tell you, because the Messiah will not be accused of playing politics.

[ELVIS]

FORD doesn't know either...:rolleyes:

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by ELVIS
You have to stand for something...

Stand Up Lyrics

Words and music by Bob Hartman

The Battle cry's getting louder
The countdown's close to the final hour
The enemy is on every side
Still no match for the Crucified
Victory unto victory
We are soldiers in His army

(Chorus)
Stand up, take a stand for Jesus
Stand up, so the whole world sees us
Showing the way to a world gone astray
Shing our light with all of our might
Stand up, take a stand for Jesus
Stand up, so the whole world sees us
Following Him, and serving Him
Fighting the fight that we know we will win

Out of our pews and into the streets
Making some use of our beautiful feet
Redeeming the time for the days are evil
This whole world's in such upheaval
We wrestle not with flesh and blood
But when the enemy comes in like a flood

Gotta lay our lives down
And stand up for the truth we've found
Gotta let the redeemed of the Lord say so

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
I don't have to get on any side of the fence. I don't believe in an "us versus them" mentality when it comes to Americans. We're all in this together. Faction is a big problem in this country, and always has been.

9/11 happened, and you can talk about it all you want. Like I said, there are other ways than showing people being killed on TV during your campaign spot.

I can see all the death I want on TV and in film, and I don't have a problem with it. But I'd expect my President, especially one that campaigned last time on morality, to hold himself higher than that.


I'm independant also, but I am leaning to the right more and more...

Show me an instance where George Bush has shown to display or condone immorality...

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by ELVIS
FORD doesn't know either...:rolleyes:

No he doesn't. But he is not as blinded by the liars as ye hath been, My son :(

[ELVIS]

My eyes are open!

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I'm independant also, but I am leaning to the right more and more...

Show me an instance where George Bush has shown to display or condone immorality...

Exodus 20
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The Son of Bush has killed thousands, he has stolen, he has coveted the resources which belong to other nations. He hath made greed and power his "gods", and he hath lied many many times.

Would ye not agree that violating many of My Father's commandments is displaying and condoning immorality, My son?

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...

My observation of this forum is that people like FORD are not open to anothers views. They preach an agenda. I'm not into that crap..

I have listened to FORD on countless occasions and I have done the research necessary to agree or disagree with whatever the subject matter is..

FORD is correct on alot of issues...

Saying that.. It seems that he and his type refuse to be open to other points of view...

Sad...

[Ally_Kat]

Those soundbites are just...i'm not even going there

but these,



VOICE I: And we need to find out why 3,000 people were murdered on his watch.

VOICEII: Well, you know, this happened on his watch.

Pearl Harbor happened on FDR's watch. There were also rumors that FDR got a telegram about it and let it happen cuz it would give him good reason to get into the war. The American public had no problem re-electing him.

[ELVIS]

What are you saying sweetheart ??

[John Ashcroft]

I say it's a load of crap.

The President's leadership following 9/11 made our country (and the world) safer period. We were attacked, and the President's response has prevented another one. In fact, we were attacked several times during the Clinton admin, and nothing was done. This inaction emboldend the terrorists by their own admission. Bush put the terrorists and the terrorist states in check. Yeah, 9/11 forced his hand, but I don't even have to imagine to understand what a guy like Kerry would've done post 9/11. I think 9/11 defined President Bush, and he has every right to illustrate that to the American public.

The bullshit out of the DNC is what's disgusting. The people they've dug up are pushing a coached agenda, all while accusing the President of doing the same. If it were the real sentiments of the people in question, and not talking points, I'd be perfectly fine with them bashing the President.

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I'm independant also, but I am leaning to the right more and more...

Show me an instance where George Bush has shown to display or condone immorality...

I can't think of any offhand. What I'm saying is I think it's in poor taste to use those images, and I'm hoping he'll be above that.

[ELVIS]

Poor taste ??

It's reality!

[Dr. Love]

It's an image of thousands of people killed/being killed.

[ELVIS]

So what! It happened!

[Dr. Love]

I guess you aren't going to see what I find objectionable about it ... oh well, that's okay.

[ELVIS]

Ok.. let's pretend It didn't happen...

[Dr. Love]

I'm not saying that. The whole event is a valid point of conversation and debate. I'm saying that there are other ways for the President to get his point across than showing a picture of 3,000 Americans being murdered.

I mean, if it's not objectionable, I'm sure he could find some pictures on rotten.com he could use.

I mean, after all, it's reality.

[ELVIS]

The commercial is tasteful...

[FORD]

Junior cannot STOP expoliting 9-11. He can't speak for 30 seconds without mentioning it. He's based his entire fraud of a pResidency on the MYTH of what happenned on that day and all the mileage he got out of it, while also doing everything possible to obstruct the investigation of what really happenned.

If Judas used 9-11 in every campaign speech from now until November, he would never come remotely close to the way Junior milked it.

[ELVIS]

Myth ??????????

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
It's an image of thousands of people killed/being killed.

wait - did he air a new commercial? Cuz the one I saw that had the 9/11 thing in it wasn't one where they were being killed or anything. It was the flag and the edifice of the one tower.

[Dr. Love]

Apparently I am incorrect.

[knuckleboner]

well, supposedly one of them includes a flag draped coffin being removed from the wreakage. (i have not seen it.)

i'm not saying that image can't be tastefully done. but it is a commercial with a murder victim. and if it's YOUR family, it's a bit different.

[Ally_Kat]

there's two. This (http://www.georgewbush.com/News/MultiMedia/VideoPlayer.aspx?ID=745&T=2) is the one I think you are talking about.

It looks like it's from the memorial service, cuz i can assure you that flag-draped coffins where not happening here that day.

[Ally_Kat]

This (http://www.georgewbush.com/News/MultiMedia/VideoPlayer.aspx?ID=744&T=2) is the other one

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
there's two. This (http://www.georgewbush.com/News/MultiMedia/VideoPlayer.aspx?ID=745&T=2) is the one I think you are talking about.

It looks like it's from the memorial service, cuz i can assure you that flag-draped coffins where not happening here that day.

nah, i think those are the firefighters removing remains from the WTC site. (though, you're right, not on 9/11/01).

[Dr. Love]

Okay, I was under the mistaken impression (from class) that they were showing actual pictures of the towers on fire.

My mistake. I don't have any problem with these ads.

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Dr. Love


My mistake. I don't have any problem with these ads.


personally, i really don't, either.

Good!

[ELVIS]

I didn't edit shit!

Something is wrong with the site...

[Ally_Kat]

di you mean to quote knuckie and ended up writing good within his post?

[ELVIS]

Yes...

[knuckleboner]

odds are! still, editted by the king, i can't complain!:D



what i actually said was something like:

"i personally don't have a problem with them, either.

but i can see how the close family could. it's a picture of a coffin that could be containing their loved one's body, or body parts as the case often was.

if a mayor decided to run an ad showing a body bag from a shooting homicide being loaded into the city cornorer's truck, some people might think that was a bit much."

[Dr. Love]

Elvis sure is editing a lot ...

Hmmm....


Last edited by ELVIS on 03-10-2004 at 04:30 PM

[John Ashcroft]

Yeah.