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Steve Savicki
03-10-2004, 06:40 PM
Besides Dave leaving VH (which I'll give for free), what do you think are the 5 biggest demises to rock and roll? Mine would be:

1. The death of Jim Morrison
2. The death of John Bonzo Bonham which ended Zeppelin
3. The loss of the Deep Purple lineup that brought us '72s "Machine Head"
4. When Joe Perry left Aerosmith (even when he returned they were never the same)
5. When the words "rock 'n roll" were removed from the airwaves and replaced with "alternative", "grunge", and "Seattle sound" when Nirvana's "smells like teen spirit" hit big - I like that music, but still, I felt that had to do with the end of rock 'n roll.

Dave IS VH
03-11-2004, 03:11 AM
Of course number 1 would be Dave leaving Van Halen in 85 and 96, but here are my 5 others

1. The Death of Jim Morrison
2. The Death of Jimi Hendrix
3. Zeppelin breaking up with Bonzo Bonham dieing
4. John Lennon getting shot
5. Rock and metal going out of style in the 90's for alternative, grunge, and rap to fuck up the music seen.

SilvioDante
03-11-2004, 09:00 AM
1. MTV!!!!
2. Dave/VH split
3. rap becomes popular
4. That loser Kurt Cobain sticking a shot gun in his mouth
5. Aerosmith releases "Don't Want to Miss a Thing"

Elitest
03-11-2004, 09:14 AM
1.Boy bands
2.girl bands
3.boy'n'girl bands
4.comic bands
5.rubber bands

LooseMenace
03-11-2004, 01:21 PM
1. Death of Hendrix
2. Deaths of Andrew Wood, Shannon Hoon, and Layne Staley
3. Poison going multiplatinum
4. Weight gain of Ann Wilson
5. Signing of Nirvana to a record deal

Steve Savicki
03-11-2004, 03:45 PM
Loose, do you think the Wilson's brought out the female side of (classic) rock? Or were they musical innovators?

I wonder what AlInChainz would comment about Layne.

Poison - better them than Firehouse or Trixter.

LooseMenace
03-11-2004, 03:59 PM
Hmmm. What a great question. I'd say that Heart, as a unit, could hang with any classic rock band of the day. They all had chops, and strong songwriting skills. I mean, how could the ladies NOT bring out the female side of rock? It's inherent in their gender, I reckon. I'll even go so far as to say, yes, they innovated a bit, simply by being two of a small handful of women who, at the time, truly ROCKED. "Magic Man" and "Barracuda" still do well up against more "modern" music. "Straight On For You" is killer as well.
What other women were there back then? Stevie Nicks/Christine Macveigh? Suzy Quattro? Without Heart, would Patricia Benatar have been possible? I don't know....

I knew Firehouse when they were White Heat, here in Charlotte, NC -- way back in the way back. They stood out as good musicians deserving of the break they eventually got. Unfortunately for them, it was at the tail-end of that whole "hair" genre. In all seriousness, they blow Poison out of the water. But hey, I bought "Look What the Cat Dragged In" the day it came out, so who am I to say?

Steve Savicki
03-11-2004, 05:18 PM
Is buying Heart's 2-CD compilation worth it or just buy everything from the debut through Bad Animals? I thought about doing that.
How does White Heat sound? More harder?

ALinChainz
03-11-2004, 05:25 PM
1. The Death of Hendrix.
2. The Death of Morrison.
3. The Death of Bonham.
4. The Death of Staley.
5. The Death of Cobain.

Each one of these guys seemed to be the end of some era, or important part of one. Obviously the deaths of Hendrix, Morrison, and Bonham were devastating because in my opinion, they were certainly innovators in rock.

Although I was never that big of Nirvana fan, you have to admit when they hit, they played a huge role in mowing down the hair band genre, and grunge taking over.

Out of those bands from Seattle though, Alice in Chains seemed to have the hard driving style, while having a diverse and unique sound. Layne had one of those voices that to me, was a style all his own. Though they didn't sound alike, Dave has the same "uniqueness", along with guys like Geddy Lee and Stephen Pearcy. I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting, and some that others will deem more impressive, but like Elitest posted, look where the music industry is now, boy bands, etc.

The reunion thing became the thing to do, and many bands did and have done quite well touring. That's why I'll never understand Eddie and the VH thing. The two reunions I see making a impact would be Dave back with VH, and maybe Zep getting Jason Bonham to play in his dad's place before they are all on social security.

Mr Badguy
03-12-2004, 09:57 AM
1) Nikki Sixx impersonated by Matthew Trippe
2) Kiss putting their make up back on
3) GnR taking five years to follow "Appetite for destruction"
4) The "Grunge" (so called) phenomenon
5) Def Leppard turning into a pop band
6) Metallica turning their back on "real" Heavy Metal
7) Ozzy losing credibility as musician and media personality
8) Shit hair bands like Tuff, Trixter, Slaughter, Extreme Etc.
9) Bon Jovi
10) Every hair band going "serious" to compete with "Grunge"

I could go on.

Just a few that I thought were missing, not to say any of the above are less important.

Wayne L.
03-12-2004, 10:05 AM
Rock & roll has been on the DEMISE ever since the decade of the 80's which is why it's on life support at this moment nearing it's 50th annivesary in 05 while the breakup of the Beatles, the death of Jim Hendrix, Janis Joplin & Jim Morrison, the breakup of the original VH are huge events in rock history.

Hollywood Jesus
03-12-2004, 10:23 AM
Man, you guys are all aiming at squirrels instead of the target.

The audience decided when rock died. A whole generation (plus) of America went soft.

Everything got really PC, gay and European when the Dems hit the whitehouse. No matter political party you are, you have to admit we all got a little more "sensitive" in the '90s.

Bring back Miller Time 'cause this Zima tastes a little flat to me. There's the damn lightning bolt in your Cheerios.


Edit for PS - Why am I now a recruit? Guess I haven't been here in a year or so. (Still more on the ball than EVH!) Did my status lapse?

FORD
03-12-2004, 10:37 AM
The first demise was in February 1959 when Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and the Big Bopper died in a plane crash. Elvis Presley had already been drafted, and Eddie Cochran's death would soon follow. Meanwhile, Chuck Berry was sent to prison - guilty of being black and rich, and Jerry Lee Lewis fucked himself by fucking (and marrying) his 13 year old cousin. Collectively, this was the first demise of rock n roll.

Second was the dark period begun by the death of Brian Jones and ended by the death of Jim Morrison. Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin being halfway in between the two. And the breakup of the Beatles in the middle of all of this. Thank God that the Stones survived.

1980 - Bon Scott, John Bonham, and John Lennon all gone within the same year. :( I was too young to remember the 1969-1971 string of deaths, but I still remember where I was when I heard that Bon, Bonzo, and John were dead.

The final demise of rock n roll is synonymous with what is proving to be the final demise of America in general - massive corporate consolidation. The entire music industry is controlled by 4 huge corporations. Radio in most major markets is controlled by 3 companies. The result so far is some of the most pathetic music in existence. Can you name anybody on the current Billboard chart who can even write songs and play musical instruments. Only in country music, it would seem. But the Clear Channel corporate masters are trying to transform that entire genre into BCE propaganda with mindless shit like Toby Keith and Darryl Worley, singing lyrics that might as well have been written by Karl Rove himself.

What I wouldn't give to have John Lennon, Bon Scott, Jimi Hendrix , and Kurt Cobain back right about now :(

FORD
03-12-2004, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by Hollywood Jesus



Edit for PS - Why am I now a recruit? Guess I haven't been here in a year or so. (Still more on the ball than EVH!) Did my status lapse?

When the Army re-opened on New Years Eve, it was wiped clean, and we all started over as "recruits".

BITEYOASS
03-12-2004, 10:43 AM
ok here's my list

1. Dave leaving VH in 85'
2. Courtney Love kills Kurt Cobain (I know the jury is still out on that one)
3. Bonzo, Morrison, Mercury and Lennon dying
4. Boybands
5. Hairbands

Steve Savicki
03-12-2004, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by SilvioDante
1. MTV!!!!
Makes me wonder what videos would've looked like pre that era... would every classic rock video follow Pink Floyd's "the wall"?:D
Anyways, did MTV just commercialize everything period?

ALinChainz
03-12-2004, 04:17 PM
I think they did. The first video I ever saw on MTV was The Rolling Stones, "Going to a GO-GO", a live concert performance of the song. I thought if every video is going to be like this, oh hell yeah.

Ended up being oh hell no. Now look what it is.

Full Bug
03-12-2004, 05:04 PM
Dont forget Janis Joplin, for a gal at her time she kicked ass, still love listening to her old stuff, she rocked, my dad was never really into rock n roll as such, but he loved listening to her, and that was great music, never forget Janis......

Steve Savicki
03-13-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by FORD
The entire music industry is controlled by 4 huge corporations. Radio in most major markets is controlled by 3 companies.
I assume the corps are

Warner Bros.
CBS
RCA
Sony

Am I right?

Are Time-Warner-AOL the 3 companies?

SilvioDante
03-13-2004, 10:46 AM
I am convinced MTV takes payola. You can't tell me otherwise. Michael Jackson payed them in the late 80's to refer to him as the "King of Pop'. True story! That and they don't play music but for about 2 hours a day. MTV2 is mostly that rap-core crap.

I also think that the computer age helped in the demise. Record companies don't have to pay bands anymore. Just one computer programmer and a vocalist.

Anyone who trades in their guitar for a synth is a fag!!!

Opps, sorry Edward!

flappo
03-13-2004, 11:54 AM
..steve savicki's birth , the day a slitty eyed cunt who talks utter bollox came into the world

twonabomber
03-13-2004, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Steve Savicki
I assume the corps are

Warner Bros.
CBS
RCA
Sony

Am I right?

Are Time-Warner-AOL the 3 companies?

Sony bought CBS, so they're the same...i'm thinking it's WB, Vivendi Universal, and Sony.

Steve Savicki
03-13-2004, 01:29 PM
Don't remember any CDs from a Vivendi label. Do they specialize in any form of music?

thebuldawg
03-14-2004, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by FORD
The final demise of rock n roll is synonymous with what is proving to be the final demise of America in general - massive corporate consolidation. The entire music industry is controlled by 4 huge corporations. Radio in most major markets is controlled by 3 companies. The result so far is some of the most pathetic music in existence. Can you name anybody on the current Billboard chart who can even write songs and play musical instruments. Only in country music, it would seem. But the Clear Channel corporate masters are trying to transform that entire genre into BCE propaganda with mindless shit like Toby Keith and Darryl Worley, singing lyrics that might as well have been written by Karl Rove himself.

Ain't that the truth.

Other than that, here's my five.

1. Lennon hooked up with Yoko.
2. Sammy joined VH and they still used the Van Halen name.
3. Grunge music.
4. Alternative music.
5. The dumbass VH brothers didn't keep Dave for more than BOV1.

Golden AWe
03-14-2004, 12:21 PM
I don't know what is this huge amount of blaming grunge once again...hair metal bands that had no talent died, so what?

There's been a lot of crap bands on every genre but the talented one's will survive no matter what...

Ok Nirvana is overrated but they wrote some good straight-ahead tunes too...if they are asked to play their biggest hit "Smells like..." on a tv-show and they do "Rape me" instead I think it's cool. Besides Dave Grohl is one helluva good drummer and a pretty good songwriter too...

Soundgarden was more metal in my opinion...Badmotorfinger and Superunknown are one of the best albums ever..."Jesus christ pose" and "Superunknown", what more do I have to say.

Alice In Chains was great though they only made a few records...and Jerry Cantrell has made two great solo records after that...

Pearl Jam - everybody doesn't like them but I do...it's all those Pearl Jam-Eddie Vedder wannabes like Creed and Nickelback that suck big time...

Stone Temple Pilots - Scott Weiland is one stupid drug addict but his voice is great and they made several great album with some cool, dark sounds...

Everybody don't approach life and their lyrics like Diamond Dave but that's ok, if it suits the music...some do live on the dark side too and let them be there if they can come up with some good music...

Steve Savicki
03-15-2004, 12:20 PM
I thought alternative and grunge were the same... to an extent

Originally posted by Golden AWe
I don't know what is this huge amount of blaming grunge once again...hair metal bands that had no talent died, so what?

What makes a hair band talented? They all sound alike to me.

Dave IS VH
03-16-2004, 01:43 AM
There are some good hair bands!!!!!!

Poison
Gn'R
Warrant
Skid Row
Motley Crue
Bon Jovi
Def Leppard

"Some people" consider VH and DLR solo era a Hair band as well, so not all hair bands wore bad, but the ones that had no talent and relied on their looks, are the bands that went down the toilet. When they got older and lost their looks.

All the Boy Bands today are the same way, except there are no good boy bands. Give it a few years when they get older and their looks start going to hell. That will be it for their careers, because they have no fucking talent to fall back on, which is what bands and artiest should be judge on is music not looks!!!!!!!!

LooseMenace
03-16-2004, 12:58 PM
Then you have a band like...Ugly Kid Joe. What to make of them? Untalented "hair band," deserving their demise? Or exceptional newcomer, late to the party, after all the ladies have paired off? Let's see..

1. Pretty fucking excellent vocalist in Whitfield Crane
2. Stupendous and numerous hooks
3. Super-heavy "metal" tone
4. Funny, funky lyrics (even if you thought they were goofy and infantile - many metalheads never bothered to buy the album, they just went by "I Hate Everything About You" and a Harry Chapin cover)
5. Rob Halford laying typically awesome screaming vocal tracks on the
second track of "America's Least Wanted."

And now, one of the guitarists has received an Emmy (or Oscar, can't remember) for his production work with Evanescence... but no one knows who he is...

Yep, the "metal" days are kinda' hard to nail down to IF THEY WERE TALENTED, they made it through Cobain's miserable existence.

twonabomber
03-16-2004, 11:02 PM
Originally posted by Steve Savicki
Don't remember any CDs from a Vivendi label. Do they specialize in any form of music?

Vivendi Universal labels include:

Interscope
Geffen
A&M
Island Def Jam Music Group
MCA Nashville
Mercury Records
Mercury Nashville
Lost Highway
Polydor
Barclay
Universal Motown Records Group
Decca
Deutsche Grammophon
Philips
ECM
Verve Music Group

Cathedral
03-16-2004, 11:26 PM
New Wave Music (Flock of Seagulls etc.)
Elvis dying on the throne
Half of Skynyrd dying
Lennon being shot to death
Warrant (Last big act signed under the Rock and Roll Genre)

I was not a big fan of hair bands because they all took Daves schtick and femmed it out like utter gutter fags wearing pink.

Case and point? White Lion (They thought they were Van Halen)

twonabomber
03-16-2004, 11:48 PM
i give Warrant a pass, because they were local. but that third wave of metal bands, Trixter, Firehouse, etc. just killed everything.

on the other hand, by the time you get to the third wave of any genre, it's over. it's happening now-the labels are on their third wave of Blink-182 clones, and they all suck.

Dave IS VH
03-17-2004, 02:30 AM
I have to say at lest 60% of them relied on looks and got their fame from Teenage girls buying albums and going to their concerts.

thus, Boy Bands = relied on looks and got their frame from Teenage girls buying albums and going to their concerts.

Hair bands won't bad thew, because there was some that had good music and rocked, but some of them wore bad as well.

Every generation had those kind of bands in the 60's was the Monkeys, which I always consider a cheap rip off of the Beatles. :D

I am only 25, I don't know much about the Hair band era. I was only a kid, but I listen to mostly 60's 70's and 80's music. In the 90's music got horrible, when Rap and Hip Hop and Grunge came in.

You got P. Diddy fucking and ripping off Zeppelin and other great rock songs. It seems like thats all rapers do is rip and fuck up great rock songs, which is another reason I hate rap. :mad:

Dave IS VH
03-17-2004, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Dave IS VH
thus, Boy Bands = relied on looks and got their frame from Teenage girls buying albums and going to their concerts.

Sorry, I meant to say fame not frame. :p

BITEYOASS
03-17-2004, 02:07 PM
The band's from the 80's who relied more on there music than their hairspray and makeup, are the ones I respect more.

HippieLettuce
03-17-2004, 06:54 PM
Death of Buddy Holly
Death of Jimi Hendrix
Death of Kieth Moon
Death of Bonzo
Death of Cliff Burton - holy God did Metallica turn to shit soon after

Steve Savicki
03-18-2004, 09:59 AM
So was it Cliff's songwriting that kept them together? Or did Newstead change their tone?

HippieLettuce
03-18-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by Steve Savicki
So was it Cliff's songwriting that kept them together? Or did Newstead change their tone?

I think it was both his songwriting and his presence that helped solidify classic Metallica. It's easy to speculate, but I just can't picture Cliff Burton in the band Metallica has become.

Dave IS VH
03-19-2004, 02:47 AM
Classic Metallica kicked so much ass!!!!!!!!!

It seems like every year and every album they get more wores.

Steve Savicki
03-21-2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by HippieLettuce
I just can't picture Cliff Burton in the band Metallica has become.
I agree. All those people that think The Black album is the best are probably brainwashed by Elekta's/Warner Bros. marketing promoters.