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Nickdfresh
07-18-2005, 03:44 PM
July 18, 2005

A Time of Doubt for Atheists
With the religious making inroads in popular culture and politics, nonbelievers yearn for higher power in Washington.

By Gina Piccalo, Times (http://www.calendarlive.com/printedition/calendar/cl-et-atheist18jul18,0,7021899.story?track=tottext) Staff Writer

It's been years, decades even, since the Almighty was so hot.

The evidence is everywhere. President Bush rallied the faithful to hold on to the White House. A book by an Orange County preacher extolling God's purpose in our lives stays a bestseller for more than two years. And Hollywood, frequently seen as a den of iniquity, is courting a more spiritual audience in movies and TV.

Faith is the new must-have, evident when a major leaguer points skyward after his base hit, when a movie star credits the Big Guy for his Oscar, when the Justice Department backs the display of the Ten Commandments at two state capitols, and when it defends the Salvation Army's requirement that employees embrace Jesus Christ.

So where does that leave the fraction of Americans who define themselves as godless? Although the percentage of Americans who claim no religion is about 14%, less than a quarter of them identify themselves as atheists, according to recent polls.

Some are using humor to cope, such as actress Julia Sweeney in her one-woman play "Letting Go of God," which ran in Los Angeles for several months this year. "It's really because I take you so seriously," she tells an imaginary God, "that I can't believe in you."

Others see the future as a time when nonbelievers are outcasts and religion dictates law, social protocol, even private life.

"The McCarthy era is the last time this climate existed," says Simi Valley resident Stuart Bechman, co-president of Atheists United, a local affiliate of Atheist Alliance International.

Although the comparison sounds melodramatic, atheist activists believe the climate to be so perilous that they're considering something drastic: unity.

Atheists aren't by nature of one mind. There's a godless organization for every wrinkle of nonbelief — the prayer-never-hurt-anyone, live-and-let-live atheists; the prove-the-God-fearing-world-wrong, keep-America-secular atheists; and the contrarian I-don't-believe-in-God-but-don't-call-me-an-atheist atheists.

Fear, however, is a great motivator, and politically active atheists know that they need an advocate in government to be heard. Unfortunately, as one activist noted, most politicians are as eager to align with the godless ranks as they are to lobby for pedophiles. Hence the need for an image makeover.

Keen to cast off stereotypes of immorality, atheists are stressing their integrity, patriotism and respect for the faithful while staying true to their age-old commitment to the separation of church and state. Some even bristle at the terms "atheist" or "nonbeliever." Others have begun raising funds, lobbying politicians and building online communities.

There have been larger-scale actions as well. The first godless march on Washington drew thousands in fall 2002, and a few months later the Godless Americans Political Action Committee was formed. This year, an Inauguration Summit of 22 like-minded groups was held in Washington to stimulate cooperation days before Bush's swearing in. And this Veterans Day, so-called foxhole atheists (servicemen and women who are nonbelievers) will be honored in the capital.

If all goes as planned, says Ellen Johnson, longtime president of American Atheists, at least one presidential candidate will be courting their vote in 2008.

"We can't complain about what the religious do," she says. "All we have to do is copy their strategy."

Best or Worst of Times?

Some among the nonbelievers say life is pretty good compared with decades past when violence was a common threat and professed nonbelievers were driven from their jobs and homes.

"I actually think it is getting better for atheists in the U.S., despite the religiosity of the current administration," Las Vegas atheist Clark Adams writes in an e-mail. "Many celebrities are on record as nonbelievers, and it's not too uncommon to see an atheist positively portrayed on TV or in movies."

Others, though, label this argument "denial." They're quick to reference the many atheists who so fear harassment that they join atheist groups anonymously and others who are cast out of their families, refused positions involving children or relieved of jobs because of their nonbelief.

It's this group that pushes the separation of church and state, a debate energized during the 1960s by legendary atheist activist Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who proclaimed herself "the most hated woman in America."

They reject the argument often cited by Christian activists that the nation's government was founded by Christians. They argue that although some of the authors of the Constitution may have been religious men, they consistently maintained a clear boundary between their faith and their government. They note that until the communist scare of the 1950s, "In God we trust" wasn't the national motto, nor did it appear on paper currency, and "under God" was absent from the Pledge of Allegiance.

They point out that Bush — who as Texas governor declared April 17, 2000, Jesus Day — has awarded religious "armies of compassion" and other faith-based groups more than $3 billion in public funds since 2003. And they feel the steel in remarks by former California Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown, now on the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, who told Roman Catholic legal professionals in April that people of faith were embroiled in a "war" with secular humanists.

"I have been threatened with damnation so many times it's stupid," says Dave Silverman of Piscataway, N.J., communications director of American Atheists and founder of NoGodBlog.com. "The amount of intolerance in this country is staggering."

Atheists often keep quiet about their worldview. Some say that to volunteer their atheism offends believers.

"We have a social idea that it's rude," says Bobbie Kirkhart, Los Angeles-based president of Atheist Alliance International.

Others say it instantly taints society's perception of them.

Silverman says his 8-year-old daughter, who he says is also an atheist, has been taunted as a Satanist by some of her Christian playmates. Atheist United's Bechman says he usually receives hate mail or prank calls after he takes a stance on church-state issues. Los Angeles acting teacher and Thomas Jefferson impersonator Dale Reynolds says he's sometimes consoled by believers saddened by his lack of faith.

"It is the kind of thing that if you bring it up, there are ramifications," Reynolds says.

Still, there are those outspoken nonbelievers doing their best to influence the masses.

American Atheists' Johnson, whose national organization claims 2,200 members, is a regular on news talk shows. She is also executive director of the Godless Americans PAC, and meets with politicians to build awareness and support for church-state separation legislation. She helped organize the 2002 march on Washington and is organizing November's Atheists in Foxholes parade and ceremony. Yet, she acknowledges, atheism is a hard sell.

"The candidate is in an awkward position," she says. "They're wary to be endorsed by an atheist.... We have to be able to deliver the votes to get them into office. I can't do that yet."

Mynga Futrell and Paul Geisert of Sacramento hope to change that with a new name and an online community. They founded the Brights' Net (the-brights.net) in 2003 to create a place for people who share "a worldview free from supernatural and mystical elements." They chose the term "brights" because, unlike "godless," "atheist" and "nonbeliever," it did not define them in religious terms. By creating this label, Futrell and Geisert hope to "level the playing field" and recast members of their community as independent thinkers who celebrate knowledge without identifying themselves as vociferous anti-theists.

They want to build a large, influential community, similar to MoveOn.org, to sway public opinion. So far, they say, there are Brights in more than 115 countries.

"There's this tremendous feeling of being a second-class citizen when you know you're patriotic and working for all kinds of good things for the country, and yet you're ranked with the pedophiles," Futrell says. "You have to have political influence in order to get cultural change of any kind."

Celebrity Heroes

If the politicians don't come, it doesn't hurt a cause to have a celebrity.

In 1999, then-Minnesota Gov. Jesse Ventura became a hero for the movement when he refused to endorse the National Day of Prayer and told Playboy magazine that organized religion was "a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers."

Actress-writer Sweeney emerged this year as a sort of amiable advocate for nonbelief. "Letting Go of God," which played at a small Hollywood theater, proved so popular that Sweeney is recording a CD of the performance, writing a book based on it and has plans to release it as a film.

Her show aims to entertain and disarm audiences as it traces Sweeney's path away from Catholicism.

In one scene, a Bible study class causes her to find the book outrageous and disturbing. She asks herself, "Is this one big practical joke?" Her skepticism isn't limited to one religion; after a journey to the Far East and a run-in with Deepak Chopra, she chooses science over faith because "for the first time, knowing too much didn't ruin it."

Breaking the news to her devout Catholic parents, however, didn't go well. Her father forbade her from attending his funeral. Her mother complained that "at least being gay is socially acceptable.... Why can't you just say you're still searching?"

Sweeney didn't respond to interview requests, but on her blog at juliasweeney.com, she described the fallout of the recent publicity.

The mail was so voluminous and, she writes, "so outraged and so filled with hate" that on June 13 she decided to stop blogging for a while and has considered moving.

"I think I tried really hard not to be hateful in my monologue," she writes. "I tried to make a case for faith and show the struggle with compassion to all sides.... I think I have a lot in common with Christians ... because I think it's majorly important if someone is religious or not. Only I think it should be on the 'not' side."'We can't complain about what the religious do. All we have to do is copy their strategy.'

Ellen Johnson, longtime president of American Atheists

FORD
07-18-2005, 05:38 PM
Isn't it always a time of doubt for atheists??

academic punk
07-18-2005, 08:41 PM
Yes, it is a time of trepidation and doubt for atheists.

God help us.

Jesus Christ
07-18-2005, 11:57 PM
God will help you if you ask Him. Dad's always been cool like that :cool:

hollywood5150
07-19-2005, 12:06 AM
there is a GOD,................thank you GOD

LoungeMachine
07-19-2005, 12:07 AM
Worst part of being an Atheist?












No one to talk to while you're getting head

Redballjets88
07-19-2005, 12:08 AM
i dont see how people can deny it....people say big bang made the universe...well what made big bang happen...what made the particles and atoms?...GOD

LoungeMachine
07-19-2005, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
God will help you if you ask Him. Dad's always been cool like that :cool:

Dear Lord,

Please make sure KKKarl Rove get EVERYTHING that's coming to him


[eh, it's worth a shot ]

:cool:

Jesus Christ
07-19-2005, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Dear Lord,

Please make sure KKKarl Rove get EVERYTHING that's coming to him


[eh, it's worth a shot ]

:cool:

If only it were up to Me...... :(

But Dad says I have to keep My hands off the whole thing. The disciples of the Son of Bush want their Apocalypse and they will bringeth it upon themselves. It is you, My children, who must stop them, and not Us.

Angel
07-19-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont see how people can deny it....people say big bang made the universe...well what made big bang happen...what made the particles and atoms?...GOD

I don't see how people can believe all the fairy tales contained in the holy books. ;)

BigBadBrian
07-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Angel
I don't see how people can believe all the fairy tales contained in the holy books. ;)

I don't see how you can stand to look at a mirror in the morning.

:gulp:

Warham
07-19-2005, 04:58 PM
Heh heh.

thome
07-19-2005, 05:38 PM
There is no such thing as a atheist its just anouther cult.

Mr Grimsdale
07-19-2005, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by thome
There is no such thing as a atheist its just anouther cult.

that's pretty deep

Mr Grimsdale
07-19-2005, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont see how people can deny it....people say big bang made the universe...well what made big bang happen...what made the particles and atoms?...GOD

It's more a question of what made the energy from which the first sub-atomic particles formed. Nothing wrong with a bit of energy/mass transformation... E=mc<sup>2</sup> yummy.

Warham
07-19-2005, 05:45 PM
I'm losing brain cells reading this thread.

thome
07-19-2005, 05:50 PM
Quark?

LoungeMachine
07-19-2005, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm losing brain cells reading this thread.

A short supply to begin with :rolleyes:

FORD
07-19-2005, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by thome
There is no such thing as a atheist its just anouther cult.

What kind of a "cult" could use the promise of absolutely nothing as a selling point? :confused:

Nickdfresh
07-19-2005, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What kind of a "cult" could use the promise of absolutely nothing as a selling point? :confused:

Scientology does okay.

FORD
07-19-2005, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Scientology does okay.

Nah, they believe in something. Granted, it's some bizzare alien shit, but it is something anyway.

Nickdfresh
07-19-2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Nah, they believe in something. Granted, it's some bizzare alien shit, but it is something anyway.

Yeah, like giving all their money and freedom away. I should have said less-than-nothing, as in negative numbers...

Angel
07-19-2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I don't see how you can stand to look at a mirror in the morning.

:gulp:


BUWAHAHAHA!!! You've OBVIOUSLY never seen me! I'm FUCKIN GORGEOUS! (If you don't believe it, ask Full Bug).

:D

steve
07-19-2005, 07:02 PM
Stephen Hawking is reading this now and is just JUMPING with rage.

...well, perhaps not jumping.
Would you believe shaking?
Vibrating?
Drueling?

Either way, his athiest ass ain't happy.

Hawking 4 LIFE!

thome
07-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Fu#k Hawking criminal bastard is say give the bastard the Chair!








There is a special place in Hell for people like me.

FORD
07-19-2005, 07:46 PM
Stephen Hawking is a criminal? :confused:

LoungeMachine
07-19-2005, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Stephen Hawking is a criminal? :confused:

Ignore him/it. We do.

He/it makes JizzySTOOL look brilliant :rolleyes:

kentuckyklira
07-19-2005, 07:49 PM
I´ve pissed on other people´s bibles and had sex on graves.

Nevertheless, my life still feels like I´m being handed free starwberry daiquiris every day!

It´s only rock n roll, but I like it!

thome
07-19-2005, 07:54 PM
Hawking is ok i just needed a lead in for my sik joke

However i do think some of his theories are easily disproved.

For one Einstiens theories need no additional thought .

LoungeMachine
07-19-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Stephen Hawking is a criminal? :confused:

He was arrested for being in the HOV lane without a passenger:cool:

Nickdfresh
07-19-2005, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by thome
Hawking is ok i just needed a lead in for my sik joke

However i do think some of his theories are easily disproved.

For one Einstiens theories need no additional thought .

This post made me laugh out loud.:D

thome
07-19-2005, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
This post made me laugh out loud.:D

:p

scorpioboy33
07-19-2005, 09:39 PM
I have actually been slowly giong back to my christian leanings...This Timothy Lahaye has been scaring the shit out of me...I just wish there were more left leaning christians to counteract the idiots on the righyt

academic punk
07-19-2005, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm losing brain cells reading this thread.

Well, that's another thing you have in common with Terri Schaivo, then...

academic punk
07-19-2005, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
I have actually been slowly giong back to my christian leanings...This Timothy Lahaye has been scaring the shit out of me...I just wish there were more left leaning christians to counteract the idiots on the righyt

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060558288/qid=1121823921/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-4679505-3478442?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0156003287/qid=1121823921/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/002-4679505-3478442?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Order these. Read them. Learn.

Nickdfresh
07-19-2005, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
I have actually been slowly giong back to my christian leanings...This Timothy Lahaye has been scaring the shit out of me...I just wish there were more left leaning christians to counteract the idiots on the righyt

David Dellinger (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679405917/qid=1121824392/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/104-0022805-1207105?v=glance&s=books).

thome
07-19-2005, 10:07 PM
Whats a left rite cristian is that how you slam christians.
I think you need to go WWWAAAAYYYy back?

Mr Grimsdale
07-20-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by thome
Quark?

there's no need for language like that

Serling
07-20-2005, 11:37 PM
Seeing that this nation was founded by religious fanatics, I'm surprised that the "Atheist" are getting worked up over this.

Lincoln
07-20-2005, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What kind of a "cult" could use the promise of absolutely nothing as a selling point? :confused:

The Democratic Party

Jesus Christ
07-20-2005, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
I have actually been slowly giong back to my christian leanings...This Timothy Lahaye has been scaring the shit out of me...I just wish there were more left leaning christians to counteract the idiots on the righyt

Will a left leaning Christ do, My son? :)

LoungeMachine
07-20-2005, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Lincoln
The Democratic Party

Even I can laugh at that :D



:cool:

LoungeMachine
07-20-2005, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Will a left leaning Christ do, My son? :)

Leaning????

The Neo Con shitbags would think you were a hard left Liberal wacko if you ran today.

They'd paint you as anti-values as well;)

scorpioboy33
07-21-2005, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Will a left leaning Christ do, My son? :)

very well :)

Jesus Christ
07-21-2005, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Leaning????

The Neo Con shitbags would think you were a hard left Liberal wacko if you ran today.

They'd paint you as anti-values as well;)

Verily, they would probably crucify Me all over again before I had been among them even a week. Such is the way of Pharisees and hypocrites. :(