Who was the most intelligent President?

[UGS]

Let's not discuss that IQ report that came out a few years ago, as we all know it's bogus. . .but really, based on policy, actions, strategy, speeches, etc, what pres do you think had his shit together the most?

I'm thinking Carter probably up there, but I'm curious to see what the general consensus is. Jackson seemed to be smart too, but for relevence's sake, let's keep the discussion to post WWII. Discuss.

[Unchainme]

Ford's probably going to say Clinton :) LOL.

[Nitro Express]

Thomas Jefferson was pretty damn smart. He was a scientist and inventor. Hated politics but took the job because he felt it was his duty.

Teddy Roosevelt is one I admire. A rich kid from the east who always tried to fit in with the mainstream Americans more than the elite. He was a conservationist and environmentalist in a realistic sense and could not be bought by big business. Roosevelt broke up huge monopolies like Standard Oil to keep consumer prices lower and to invite competition in a free marketplace. After seeing how our current politicians are bought and paid for by big business, we need another Teddy Roosevelt today.

Jimmy Carter. He had the misfortune of being president during double digit inflation and hard economic times. Carter was probably one of the best foriegn policy presidents and later became admired even from political opponents for his integrity, honesty, and charity. Carter was an unpopular president who because of his post presidency charity and diplomatic work, is widely respected by both Democrats and Republicans today.

Dewight Eisenhower. The famouse general who became president had a gift to see the big picture. It helped him win the war in Europe and it helped him initiate programs that built infastructure in the US that we need today. This was the president that built the Interstate freeway system when many people thought he was crazy. Picture the country without the Interstate now. What a slow poking traffic jam we would have on small two lane highways. Eisenhower also warned about the "military industrial complex" becoming too powerful. Vietnam and the current war in Iraq prove he was right. Dick Chenney and George Bush invaded Iraq to boost Halliburton Oil profits under the guise of "weapons of mass destruction". Eisenhower saw the temptation to go to war to make money and gave his warning over 40 years ago.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Unchainme
Ford's probably going to say Clinton :) LOL.

Bill Clinton, in all seriousness, was probably the most intelligent man to hold the office in our lifetime.

Carter was also highly intelligent. Nixon wasn't a dummy either, just paranoid and corrupt. And Poppy Bush didn't turn the BCE into the worldwide crime empire that it is by being an idiot. I don't think any of his sons are very bright though. Jeb is smarter than Junior, but not by much.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by FORD
Bill Clinton, in all seriousness, was probably the most intelligent man to hold the office in our lifetime.

Carter was also highly intelligent. Nixon wasn't a dummy either, just paranoid and corrupt. And Poppy Bush didn't turn the BCE into the worldwide crime empire that it is by being an idiot. I don't think any of his sons are very bright though. Jeb is smarter than Junior, but not by much.

If there was a President Gore, where do you think would he stand in that group?

Mezro...can't see him being smarter than Carter...but Al did invent the internet ;)...

[Nickdfresh]

I think John F. Kennedy had to be close to brilliant. And I say this not just because I consider him a personal hero for his ability to juggle poontang and the Cold War, but because he was literally sedated for much of his presidency as his back pain became worse and worse. Yet historians can fine almost no fault in his decision making regarding The Cuban Missile Crisis and in his performance at a critical summit meeting with Khrushchev.

[Rikk]

Carter. You have to be pretty brilliant to force Human Rights Legislation policing by the UN for the United States and not be killed.;)

A great man, his legacy was not seen through because the moron cowboy took over in 1981 and practically declared war on Russia for the sake of scaring voters and pleasing arms dealers...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Rikk
Carter. You have to be pretty brilliant to force Human Rights Legislation policing by the UN for the United States and not be killed.;)

A great man, his legacy was not seen through because the moron cowboy took over in 1981 and practically declared war on Russia for the sake of scaring voters and pleasing arms dealers...

You know, I once saw a biography of CARTER in which he said that his brother BILLY was actually much smarter (and more troubled) than he was.

I think they both worked in a warehouse when they were young men, so they could sit and read newspaper after newspaper.

[UGS]

Originally posted by FORD
Jeb is smarter than Junior, but not by much.

There's an accomplishment-and-a-half :rolleyes: :D

Jeb will make a good president someday, his dad said so.

[Guitar Shark]

Karl Rove.

[Warham]

I'd say Bill Clinton. He's somehow managed to stay out of prison for the last thirty years. That takes brilliance to accomplish.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
I'd say Bill Clinton. He's somehow managed to stay out of prison for the last thirty years. That takes brilliance to accomplish.

No, it was just the hapless efforts of right wing morons that never stood up under any real investigation.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, it was just the hapless efforts of right wing morons that never stood up under any real investigation.

See THE HUNTING OF THE PRESIDENT. Pretty good flick.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, it was just the hapless efforts of right wing morons that never stood up under any real investigation.

Hey, don't blame the Republicans for his mistakes!

He got in trouble with Hillary all by himself.

[academic punk]

What is this obsession you have with Bill Clinton's penis???!!???

[rucalobe]

1. Bill Clinton (eliminated deficit; left surplus; USA was well liked and respected throughout the world; happy times ;-D)
2. FDR (New Deal; stabilized nation)
3. Lincoln (civil rights; won civil war)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
I'd say Bill Clinton.

In every thread thus far....:rolleyes:


[ I think you have a secret, unfulfilled crush on the guy, and wish it had been YOUR dress soiled with POTUS DNA ]


:cool:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by academic punk
What is this obsession you have with Bill Clinton's penis???!!???

WARPIG = HE'S HUNGRY FOR THE DEMOCRATIC COCK ;)

[academic punk]

My step-brother lives in Chappequa where the Clintons now reside, and actually once attended a dinner at their home (my bro is an ardent Republican, BTW, who even joked that he was going to try to get his wife to seduce Bill to ruin Hillary's potential '08 bid).

He said he was the most incredibly intelligent person he has ever met. Yu could ask him aquestion on any number of topics, and he would be able to launch into an incredible discourse on the topic, complete with asides, opinions, humor, candor, and insight (even an appreciation for the other side of the argument).

And it was all completely engaging.

And my brother beforehand HATED the guy.

(which isn't to say that he isn't still a Republican...he is)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by academic punk
My step-brother lives in Chappequa where the Clintons now reside, and actually once attended a dinner at their home (my bro is an ardent Republican, BTW, who even joked that he was going to try to get his wife to seduce Bill to ruin Hillary's potential '08 bid).



I, too got to meet him, back in '91.

Amazing mind, and wit.

:cool:

[Warham]

Originally posted by academic punk
What is this obsession you have with Bill Clinton's penis???!!???

Whitewater had nothing to do with his penis. Get your mind out of the gutter, AP.

[superdave]

I would have to go with Jimmy Carter

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Warham
Whitewater had nothing to do with his penis. Get your mind out of the gutter, AP.

Whitewater...refresh my menmory...what was the conclusion of that situation again?

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
In every thread thus far....:rolleyes:


[ I think you have a secret, unfulfilled crush on the guy, and wish it had been YOUR dress soiled with POTUS DNA ]


:cool:

I give Clinton a compliment, and then you guys bitch and moan. Liberals just can't be happy about anything.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by academic punk
Whitewater...refresh my menmory...what was the conclusion of that situation again?

As if Warpig would let FACTS get in the way of his Love for the Democratic Love Pump:rolleyes:

[Warham]

Originally posted by academic punk
Whitewater...refresh my menmory...what was the conclusion of that situation again?

I thought you were on a roll about his penis there, AP. Now you want to get serious?

[Warham]

Bill Clinton's a genius, even if he was the most unethical president ever (right up there with Millhouse).

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
In every thread thus far....:rolleyes:


[ I think you have a secret, unfulfilled crush on the guy, and wish it had been YOUR dress soiled with POTUS DNA ]


:cool:

Warham likes to put on a big blue dress and rub one off.:)

[LoungeMachine]

Why are we passing over Gerald Ford?

Think about it.

Part of the Warren Commission COVER UP

Never Elected VP, but held the post

Never Elected Pres, but held the post

Pardoned Tricky Dick [Nixon, not Cheney]


A True Republican ahead of his time

[Warham]

And I respectfully disagree that I talk about Clinton in every thread.

I know you bring up Karl in every thread. Are you love with that chubby, Lounge?

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Why are we passing over Gerald Ford?

Think about it.

Part of the Warren Commission COVER UP

Never Elected VP, but held the post

Never Elected Pres, but held the post

Pardoned Tricky Dick [Nixon, not Cheney]


A True Republican ahead of his time

The Warren Commission? Weren't they paid off by Lyndon Johnson?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham



I know you bring up Karl in every thread. Are you love with that chubby, Lounge?

You better believe I love KKKarl.

Best thing to happen to the Dem party since Slick Willy;)

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You better believe I love KKKarl.

Best thing to happen to the Dem party since Slick Willy;)

You guys getting hard up about this whole thing is what's funny. When they find him innocent of all wrongdoing, I'm gonna come in here and laugh my ass off at you guys, and go through and pull out all your quotes from the past few weeks, and put up a Best Of KKKarl Rove thread. It'll be a laugh riot.

[Guitar Shark]

I defy anyone to prove that Karl Rove is not the most intelligent President we've had since World War II.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I defy anyone to prove that Karl Rove is not the most intelligent President we've had since World War II.

Most devious and devoid of a soul?


Yes.


:cool:


Otherwise, JFK followed by WJC

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
You guys getting hard up about this whole thing is what's funny. When they find him innocent of all wrongdoing, I'm gonna come in here and laugh my ass off at you guys, and go through and pull out all your quotes from the past few weeks, and put up a Best Of KKKarl Rove thread. It'll be a laugh riot.

The mere fact you'll get enjoyment over this peice of shit getting away with what he's done, is why I truly despise you, and everything you stand for.

Have a nice day:cool:

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Most devious and devoid of a soul?


Yes.


:cool:


Otherwise, JFK followed by WJC

JFK and WJC are #3 and #2, respectively.

Rove masterminded the election of a chimp. Twice.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
JFK and WJC are #3 and #2, respectively.

Rove masterminded the election of a chimp. Twice.


You win, counselor.:D


But he's a victim of his own greed for power. Thought he was untouchable.

KKKarl Milhouse Rove

:cool:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
JFK and WJC are #3 and #2, respectively.

Rove masterminded the election of a chimp. Twice.
:)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I, too got to meet him, back in '91.

Amazing mind, and wit.

:cool:

Tell us more, sounds like an interesting story...

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Warham
I thought you were on a roll about his penis there, AP. Now you want to get serious?


Aw, come on. I made ONE joke about you and your semi-regular mention of Sperm-Gate. You've made plenty of ironic jokes yourself at the expense of "libs", sorry if you took it the wrong way. really.

But, let's get serious about Whitewater. Yeah, there was some sleaze there. But probably no more than anyone with a lot of money involved in trading. Look at Martha Stewart. And it is my belief that if there was anything truly dirty there, he would've gone the same way. In terms of Vince Foster, come on, you won't let Clinton off the hook for a slurpee, you think he'd be able to get away with murder??

And by the way, I do belive Clinton made his own bed. I don't give a shit about the blowjob, but he perjured himself, and it came back to haunt him. (then again, what right-minded guy wouldn't lie about an extra-marital blowjob???)

But I do find it interesting that here you are saying if Rove isn't convicted of anything, then he didn't do anything wrong (he did - at the least he was not - and continues not to be - straightforward and honest with the public and media re: his involvement with Plame). The Clintons weren't convicted of anything re: Whitewater. Shouldn't you then apply the same standards for him?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Rikk
Carter. You have to be pretty brilliant to force Human Rights Legislation policing by the UN for the United States and not be killed.;)

A great man, his legacy was not seen through because the moron cowboy took over in 1981 and practically declared war on Russia for the sake of scaring voters and pleasing arms dealers...

Geez, where does he come up with this stupid shit? :rolleyes:

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Warham
Bill Clinton's a genius, even if he was the most unethical president ever (right up there with Millhouse).

I would say bombing Cambodia without telling the American people and creating an economic and social situation that leads to one of humanity's biggest genocides would be considered more unethical...;)

[Rikk]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Geez, where does he come up with this stupid shit? :rolleyes:

History books and tributes by Amnesty. And none of them funded by a political party.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by Rikk
History books and tributes by Amnesty. And none of them funded by a political party.


Shhhh. You're confusing Brian.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Warham
The Warren Commission? Weren't they paid off by Lyndon Johnson?

Johnson setup the Commission, however Gerald Ford was part of it's panel. To this day, Ford remains the most ardent supporter of the Warren Commission's conclusions. Even during his presidency, he publicly defended the Commission's conclusions even when Congress was trying to reopen the case for further investigations.

[UGS]

Clinton never really lived up to his hero JFK in the non-governing presidential "duties". Let's compare. . .fuck Marilyn Monroe vs. "Getting Your Dick Licked" by an all-too-eager intern.

Who here's read Bill's book? I'm about a hundred pages into the Presidential Years section. It's no Crazy from the Heat, but as far as autobiographies go, it's quite captivating. Even from the short part I've read, you can clearly see how well spoken he is on many things, like AP mentioned.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Mezro
If there was a President Gore, where do you think would he stand in that group?




Someone isn't TOO damn smart who is about to shoot himself. :D

http://www.floridaradioactive.com/laughriot/Gore_nam.jpg

[ashstralia]

i remember ronnie on my tv, nice suit

and slicked up hair.

i couldn't help but like the dude.





as for intelligence,

somebody else looks after that.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Tell us more, sounds like an interesting story...

Perhaps "meeting" was too strong a word:D

I was at a fund rasier at the Olympic Four Seasons, with a few hundred other people, and got to shake his hand. The next morning he spoke at the Pike Place Market at 7 am, which was cool too. A group of us had stayed up the whole night.

Even then, before he was even elected he seemed "presidential" to me. I kept marvelling at how he came from Arkansas of all places.

Thank God for Ross Perot. :cool:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Someone isn't TOO damn smart who is about to shoot himself. :D

http://www.floridaradioactive.com/laughriot/Gore_nam.jpg


I'll admit that's a fucking riot of a picture, and that Al Bore was a terrible candidate.........

But I still can't help but wonder how things would be now, if we hadn't invaded and occupied Iraq.

Perhaps we would have gone into Afghanistan only, and actually accomplished something.:cool:

But here we are.....:(

[Seshmeister]

I'm not up on these things technically speaking, and it's obscured by the writing but is there a magazine in that M16?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I'm not up on these things technically speaking, and it's obscured by the writing but is there a magazine in that M16?

Yes.

Playboy

June '67 issue, I believe:D

[Seshmeister]

Before my time old dude...:)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Before my time old dude...:)

43?

I'm only half way to 86, whipper snapper:D


:cool:

[rucalobe]

"Someone isn't TOO damn smart who is about to shoot himself."

Brian: The M-16 is not loaded (there's no magazine, the gun has the lock in the "Locked" position, and the muzzle is covered. Also, the angle where the gun is pointed to is away from his face.

Conclusion: The guy knew was he was doing and was not going to shoot himself. On the other hand, W chickened out of his duty and we are all paying for it now...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by rucalobe
"

Brian: The M-16 is not loaded (there's no magazine, the gun has the lock in the "Locked" position, and the muzzle is covered. Also, the angle where the gun is pointed to is away from his face.

Conclusion: The guy knew was he was doing and was not going to shoot himself. On the other hand, W chickened out of his duty and we are all paying for it now...

Damn, Bri

Lobe may have some game:D


:cool:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by rucalobe
"Someone isn't TOO damn smart who is about to shoot himself."

Brian: The M-16 is not loaded (there's no magazine, the gun has the lock in the "Locked" position, and the muzzle is covered. Also, the angle where the gun is pointed to is away from his face.

Conclusion: The guy knew was he was doing and was not going to shoot himself. On the other hand, W chickened out of his duty and we are all paying for it now...


I don't know....with all the firearm safety I've been taught...YOU NEVER, EVER POINT A WEAPON AT THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF SOMEONE'S HEAD....EVEN IF IT IS algore (OK, maybe it would be alright to point one at him :D ). Too much room for error.

Your last statement shows a serious lack of respect and disregard for our National Guard Forces, many of whom were called up and gave their lives during that struggle. As a veteran, I am offended. :mad:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Damn, Bri

Lobe may have some game:D


:cool:

I am the game. ;)

:gulp:

[DrMaddVibe]

George Washington.

Intelligent enough to know what kind of a job it was supposed to be. Gentle enough to lay the groundwork for others. Wise enough to go back to private life.

Someone else mentioned Jefferson. I'd say visit Monticello. Walk the entire grounds of the place and you know this man was head and shoulders above peanut farmers and carpetbaggers!

Politics has turned into a profession and its not supposed to be that. There shouldn't be any pensions, body guards for life or any other entitlement. You served your nation and then you fade to what you were before. A changed man, a better man for serving the nation. Until we get back to the essence of what our Founding Fathers laid out for us as a nation will we continue to have the system we deserve and not the one we should be getting!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
You guys getting hard up about this whole thing is what's funny. When they find him innocent of all wrongdoing, I'm gonna come in here and laugh my ass off at you guys, and go through and pull out all your quotes from the past few weeks, and put up a Best Of KKKarl Rove thread. It'll be a laugh riot.

It'll be AWESOME when he gets away with treason and perjury. Yeah! Kick Ass!!!!!!

[DrMaddVibe]

Ironic that you have Darth Vader in your sig and reply to that message.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Ironic that you have Darth Vader in your sig and reply to that message.

I fail to see the irony. Maybe it's too early.

[DrMaddVibe]

Someone that has been raised up in truth and decides to let foolish pride cloud their judgement. Destroying any good that came out of their mouth before is tarnished with the deeds they do today.

Think about it.

[academic punk]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Someone that has been raised up in truth and decides to let foolish pride cloud their judgement. Destroying any good that came out of their mouth before is tarnished with the deeds they do today.

Think about it.


Dude, you're starting to sound like Thome or bobgnote. Easy on the methamphetamine.

Remember, everything in moderation.

[DrMaddVibe]

Likewise.

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Someone that has been raised up in truth and decides to let foolish pride cloud their judgement. Destroying any good that came out of their mouth before is tarnished with the deeds they do today.

Think about it.

Sounds like the Republican party to me. The foolish pride & deeds the BCE does today are destroying the positive legacy of Abe Lincoln & Teddy Roosevelt

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by FORD
Sounds like the Republican party to me. The foolish pride & deeds the BCE does today are destroying the positive legacy of Abe Lincoln & Teddy Roosevelt

At least they had some good.

[Warham]

I want to hear the positive legacy of Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter.

:D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
I want to hear the positive legacy of Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter.

:D

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Campdavid.jpg

http://www.interfacesustainability.com/images/jcwp1.jpg

Those two (the Camp David Accord & Habitat for Humanity) alone top the last three Republican administrations combined.

[Rikk]

I have to say that Lyndon is one of my least-favorite Democrat presidents. But how about a little thing he worked with called the Civil Rights movement?

He also started Vietnam (which Kennedy was already on the way to pulling out of)...but Nixon kept Vietnam going for five years after Johnston...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/47/Campdavid.jpg

http://www.interfacesustainability.com/images/jcwp1.jpg

Those two (the Camp David Accord & Habitat for Humanity) alone top the last three Republican administrations combined.

But ultimately it failed and Sadat was assasinated.

Admittedly Egypt has been more moderate than most but have you seen the news this weekend?

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
I want to hear the positive legacy of Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter.

:D

The "Great Society" actually diminished the rates of poverty in this nation of both the extreme young and extreme old. Prior to LBJ, it was the common for the destitute to be eating dog food.

As a liberal of course, he had to prove what a real anti-communist he was to the right, so hence the trade-off for all this was the war in Vietnam.

And WARHAM, if starting really stupid, pointless conflicts in third world countries adversely affects one's presidential legacy, what will be BUSH's positive legacy for his presidency? Waiting for supreme court justices to die?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
But ultimately it failed and Sadat was assasinated.

Admittedly Egypt has been more moderate than most but have you seen the news this weekend?

Cheers!

:gulp:

No, it didn't fail. Egypt is still at peace with Israel and several "moderate" arab countries have followed suite.

[tobinentinc]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
The "Great Society" actually diminished the rates of poverty in this nation of both the extreme young and extreme old. Prior to LBJ, it was the common for the destitute to be eating dog food.

As a liberal of course, he had to prove what a real anti-communist he was to the right, so hence the trade-off for all this was the war in Vietnam.


You did forget to mention how the great society was funded, through tax payers social security which up until then was untouched and left for what it was intended. Where is the great society now?? Johnson was nothing more than a fuck up who escalated the Vietnam war the wrong way instead of just winning the war, waged it so it would forever scar this country. Not to mention fucked everyone's social security. Not that we should rely on the government to pay for our retirement anyway.

[4moreyears]

W

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
W

Finally, one you can spell.

Keep reaching for the stars, Gump :cool:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by tobinentinc
You did forget to mention how the great society was funded, through tax payers social security which up until then was untouched and left for what it was intended. Where is the great society now?? Johnson was nothing more than a fuck up who escalated the Vietnam war the wrong way instead of just winning the war, waged it so it would forever scar this country. Not to mention fucked everyone's social security. Not that we should rely on the government to pay for our retirement anyway.

Funny you don't mention that the Vietnam war was funded by tax payers too. Typical "conservative idiot." It's okay for money top go to killing and dominating in foreign wars, but God forbid tax payers' money go to feeding and educating the poor. The former is a waste of blood and treasure, and that blood is often that of the best and brightest. The latter is an investment, that maybe one of those poor kids will turn out to be a scientist or an entrepreneur that invents the next cure for a disease, or a car that gets 70 MPG...

[bobgnote]

Gerry and Dick were OL and attorneys, who did Navy. Good choice for vaguely functional but deeply flawed, similar smarts. ford ain't dead, but he is a goddam CLAM, and his marketable kid Jack let the energy deal story slide until his ratings went down and his blonde went snappy.


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Why are we passing over Gerald Ford?

Think about it.

Part of the Warren Commission COVER UP

Never Elected VP, but held the post

Never Elected Pres, but held the post

Pardoned Tricky Dick [Nixon, not Cheney]


A True Republican ahead of his time
Kinda smart, but:
Jefferson chased Burr all over for killing Hamilton, and both Hamilton and Jeff tweaked Burr out of high office, so Burr went off, thinking it was (probably) discrimination, since he was Jewish. He whacked Hamilton after the founder of the US Bank shot HIS pistol into the air.

Carter? He sold out, WHILE IN OFFICE, so since we know about how he said legalize pot for alcohol fuel on TV, he did TMI at risk, like an idiot, ignored the Iranian anger over Israel, and set the stage for Reagan, who could get us all killed from the grave.

Teddy lost the black vote for the Republicans by burning buffalo soldiers at Brownsville. What an ass.

All of them did deregulation of power providers, to enable the upcoming fight to the finish, for all funding dollars in Ca., a site of funding implosion.

If Clinton or GW gets ALL OF US DEAD, we should have thought of something else, first.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Funny you don't mention that the Vietnam war was funded by tax payers too. Typical "conservative idiot." It's okay for money top go to killing and dominating in foreign wars, but God forbid tax payers' money go to feeding and educating the poor. The former is a waste of blood and treasure, and that blood is often that of the best and brightest. The latter is an investment, that maybe one of those poor kids will turn out to be a scientist or an entrepreneur that invents the next cure for a disease, or a car that gets 70 MPG...

So that's all you are worried about? Getting good gas mileage? :rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
So that's all you are worried about? Getting good gas mileage? :rolleyes:

Take your Ritalin bitch! Been watching too many TOM CRUISE interviews?:D

[scorpioboy33]

For those here who support GW Bush..I just wanted to find to what extent you would maintain your support.
-He extended the Patriot Act to include the closing of Mosques that we're deemed ratical, banning of "unpatriotic demonstrations.
-Called for the invasion of Iran.
-Called for the invasion of Korea.
-Went against the UN and invaded countries deemed oppresive (opps to late)

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by tobinentinc
You did forget to mention how the great society was funded, through tax payers social security which up until then was untouched and left for what it was intended. Where is the great society now?? Johnson was nothing more than a fuck up who escalated the Vietnam war the wrong way instead of just winning the war, waged it so it would forever scar this country. Not to mention fucked everyone's social security. Not that we should rely on the government to pay for our retirement anyway.

Wait a minute...
When i see how much of my pay goes into social security i damn sure ~DO~ rely on the government giving that shit back to me when i retire.

I see what my parents get for all their years of hard work, and it's pathetic.
What's even more pathetic is that some people relied TOTALLY on it for their retirement and are the people bitching that they can't live on it now.

I know best how to invest MY money, not them.
I would love to opt out of paying into Social Security so i can invest those funds into my own investments.
The more i get in them now means that much more later, and at a higher interest rate to boot.

I will be a Millionaire, just not a young one without finding a golden opportunity between now and then.
And if i die, my daughter becomes a Multi-Millionaire with 10 times more opportunity than i have.
She'll do tremendously well in insurance policies and then be able to borrow against assets she'll never have to touch other than to make more money, lol.

Damn, makes me wish i could be there... :(

The point is, you need more seeds planted as early in life as possible in order to reap a substantial harvest later.
Putting all the eggs in one retirement basket will fuck you, it will fuck you right in the ass, very hard, and very fast.
I will keep my virgin ass protected all my life just to have it fucked raw and wide when i get my first S.S. check?...sorry, not in the program.

I recommend buying and selling property, there is no better investment. Just avoid the TV Infomercials selling "Kits" and "Plans".
Go to a school and get a license to sell property then start selling it.
when you come a cross an assumable loan that requires no money down you can buy your first property.
Then, you put that property back on the market and sell it for the appraisal value, which is higher than what you got it for, and walk away from that closing with a check for the difference.

Deals like that don't fall from the sky, but they do happen often.
Especially when a marriage falls apart after 5 to 10 years.

Then you have a couple trying to "unload" the property that has built up equity over those years and their only goal is to get out from under the payment.
It's all in how they market the home to the buyer which determines the type of loan required to buy it.
If you can assume their loan, you just got yourself a whole lot of free equity you can bank in a few short months when you sell that property to another family.

Foreclosures are goldmines for the Slum Lords, I don't recommend dealing in foreclosures unless they are out of the typical neighborhoods.
And buying foreclosures is the main schtick for the TV "plans" and "kits".
My brother bought that Carlton Sheets bullshit and found out real fast how he makes his money........selling info you can find at the library for free, in a $500 "kit".
Some of that shit is even illegal in some states, seriously.
But nobody will tell you that unless you either check it out for yourself, or you get busted.

I tried a few months ago to buy a house that was still under construction. The husband lost his job and they filed bankruptcy which halted construction.
I was outbid on that one, and it was assumable from the bank, they just wanted a good note on it. it just needed to be finished and that took it out of my price range by a lot.

But i wanted to live in that house, it had a detached 3 car garage, lol.
In that area, it will go up in value by $40,000 or more in 5 years.
That's $40,000+ extra dollars in your pocket when you sell it.

That's how you plan for retirement, by working smart, not hard.
Make yourself rich, fuck the guy who's name is on the building you clock in and out of now.
Working your ass off and never seeing your family just so you can starve and be bitter living on a Social Security check during old age ain't living, and it damn sure ain't no future anyone wants.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Finally, one you can spell.

Keep reaching for the stars, Gump :cool:

LMAO