CAFTA Trade Pact Clears US Congress

[Cathedral]

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A free trade pact with Central America and the Dominican Republic cleared the US Congress, after it was approved by a narrow 217-215 vote in the House of Representatives.


Pushed by the administration of President George W. Bush, CAFTA-DR passed the House thanks to 15 Democrats who voted against their party line. Twenty-seven Republican lawmakers and one independent voted against the pact.

The trade agreement was hotly debated among both parties and represents a key victory for Bush, who risked considerable political capital in pressing for its approval.

Signed more than a year ago, CAFTA-DR was approved by a 54-45 vote in the Senate on June 30 and its passage in the House was uncertain until the last minute.

Bush and his cabinet fought an uphill battle to have it approved.

While CAFTA-DR is expected to have little impact on the US economy, which exports 15 billion dollars worth of goods to Central America, it became the most controversial free trade agremeent Congress debated in years.

In a rare meeting behind closed doors, Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and US Trade Representative Rob Portman (news, bio, voting record) spent more than one hour in Congress on Wednesday to press Republican lawmakers to fully support the trade pact.

Backers of the trade agreement argue it is a way to fend off the threat of Chinese textile exports by spurring further integration of US yarn and textile producers with low-cost garment makers in with the Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Costa Rica and Guatemala.

Additionally, some have been arguing the measure is needed for economic stability and security in the region and to reduce illegal immigration into the United States.

Failure to pass CAFTA-DR would have made Bush politically vulnerable for the remainder of his second term in office and seriously weakened his hand in negotiating a wider Free Trade Area of the Americas and bringing about a freer global trading system under the Doha Round of talks under the World Trade Organization.

Democrats strongly opposed the deal because they claim it fails to impose fair labor standards in a region unsupportive of workers' rights and represents unfair competition to US workers.

The White House insists CAFTA-DR's labor standards are the most rigorous of all free trade pacts the United States has negotiated so far.

Lawmakers from sugar-producing and textile-manufacturing states also rejected the trade deal fearing it could increase unemployment in their regions.

"We must not neglect the anti-democracy, anti-American forces that are at work in Latin America," said Republican representative for California David Dreier said in support of CAFTA-DR during the two-hour debate before the vote.

"Certainly, CAFTA does not fix all the problems facing Central America. But increased economic integration can only add jobs and help alleviate poverty, reduce the flow of migration northward, and make our region more competitive in world markets," said Jim Kolbe, Republican for Arizona.

Maryland Democrat Whip Steny Hoyer said he could not support the measure "for its failure to guarantee basic workplace protections for Central Americans and a level playing field for American workers."

CAFTA-DR "is about institutionalizing cheap labor," said Ohio Democrat Dennis Kucinich, while Democratic Minority leader Nancy Pelosi, noting the negative impact on employment, said CAFGA "only digs the hole deeper."

Despite its protectionist rhetoric, the US Congress has rejected no trade agreement in the past 40 years.

The United States entered a free trade agreement with Mexico and Canada in 1994 and with Chile in 2003.

Before CAFTA can go into effect, it must be approved by the legislatures of Nicaragua, Costa Rica and the Dominican Republic.

[Cathedral]

Damn, Kucinich finally says something i agree with?

Stop the fucking presses!

Ladies and Gentlemen, like father like fucking son.
Another Bush selling out American jobs because that is exactly what this is going to do.
It's 1994 all over again, and we learned nothing?

Why we don't invest in our own country, and our own people is beyond my fucking comprehension.

Hmmmm, this disconnect between our leaders and the people must come to an end.
I saw a poll today that 96% of the citizens polled were against this deal..............that's 96%!

That's it, I want George gone, like now.
We can't afford another 3 million job losses over the next 3 years.

And with the way business is being done lately, the last thing i want Bush touching is Social Security.

Bottom line, CAFTA means jobs lost so, just like in '94 we're putting other countries to work while unemploying our own citizens.

HOW IN THE FUCK DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

[FORD]

It doesn't make any fucking sense. And once again, the DLC traitors were the deciding factor, for the most part.

More disturbing locally is that Norm Dicks voted for the shit. He's not my congressman, but I'm still shocked he voted for this.

Norm's district has two major constituencies. One is the military, with Army, Navy, and Air Force bases included. The other is the Olympic Peninsula which traditionally depended on two industries, timber and fishing - both of which were devastated by corporate greed and overharvesting.

How can outsourcing jobs to Central America possibly help this district?

Norm, what the fuck were you thinking?? You aren't even DLC, for fucks sake!!

[Cathedral]

I'm shocked at a few names that voted yes to this shit.
When NAFTA was passed in '94 it meant a 60% reduction in the products we made at SSI Manufacturing.
That led to reducing the staff which ultimately left nobody working there except us Supervisors.
At that point we were a tribe of Chief's with no Indians beneath.

Then the company folded and we were all out on our ass.

Mexicans got all of our work at that point, and their quality was total shit.
Hell, before we went under we were sent a few shipments from Mexico of products that were taken away from us, for us to repair and fix their fuck-ups.
The owner of the company agreed to it because he thought that the lack of quality in the product would bring them back to us.

But it was so much cheaper to out source it that they worked with Mexico until they got there shit somewhat together.

I wasn't alone then, every state was effected by NAFTA in a negative way. I just thank God this shit won't effect my current position today. or should i say, I can't see how it will just yet.

This shit is nothing but an extension of NAFTA, and it promises more of the same and in the end, the loss of our Independance as a Nation.

We are about to hand over the keys to people that have no interest in our future prosperity.

If it was about "Fair" trade, then it wouldn't have so many economical downfalls for the American Worker.
All this shit does here at home is create trade deficits and the closing of American Companies.

G.W. is just like his fucking father, and i want his ass gone, NOW!

[worldbefree]

The 15 Democrats that voted for CAFTA.

Melissa Bean, Illinois (8th District): 202-225-3711

Jim Cooper, Tennessee (5th District): 202-225-4311

Norm Dicks, Washington (6th District): 202-225-5916

Henry Cuellar, Texas (28th District): 202-225-1640

Ruben Hinojosa, Texas (15th District): (202) 225-2531

William Jefferson, Louisiana (2nd District): (202) 225-6636

Jim Matheson, Utah (2nd District): (202) 225-3011

Gregory Meeks, New York (6th District): 202-225-3461

Dennis Moore, Kansas (3rd District): (202) 225-2865

Jim Moran, Virginia (8th District): (202) 225-4376

Solomon Ortiz, Texas (27th District): 202-225-7742

Ike Skelton, Missouri (4th District): 202-225-2876

Vic Snyder, Arkansas (2nd District): 202-225-2506

John Tanner, Tennessee (8th District): (202) 225-4714

Edolphus Towns, New York (10th District: (202) 225-5936

[Cathedral]

I don't recognize a single name on that list, lol.
I am surprised that any Democrats voted for it at all.

I know Ohio voted against it, because they remember the economic impact of NAFTA in '94 and mass Ohioans let them know it too.


This is just a bad deal from the start, i knew it then and i damn sure know it now.

[WACF]

NAFTA was one of the worse things Canada ever singned onto.

[Cathedral]

It's all part of the plan to group the nations so the European Union can be born through the FTAA.

Like i said, we're about to hand the keys over to a U.N. type of organization that rules us all, as one.

And they don't give a shit about our prosperity at all.

[Big Train]

Re: CAFTA Trade Pact Clears US Congress

Originally posted by Cathedral

Additionally, some have been arguing the measure is needed for economic stability and security in the region and to reduce illegal immigration into the United States.


"Certainly, CAFTA does not fix all the problems facing Central America. But increased economic integration can only add jobs and help alleviate poverty, reduce the flow of migration northward, and make our region more competitive in world markets," said Jim Kolbe, Republican for Arizona.

Makes all the sense in the world to me.

We are NOT a manufacturing country anymore and that is just how it is. Too many poor people in the world to compete against that labor. Just the facts.

The costs of the US (and it's workers) getting into new industries and dominating them FAR outweigh the costs of immigration and making a commodity out of existing ones.

Americans not evolving is what is "selling America out".

[Cathedral]

This happened for two major reason, bro.
Americans got LAZY and our government wants to drive straight into a New World Order, just like Daddy Bush wanted to do with NAFTA.

But i was directly affected by NAFTA, and i'm no lazy fuck.
So i do know first hand how wrong this shit is.

If we cut the throats of our own labor force there will be no alternative but to join the European Union, which until recently is what i thought we wanted to avoid.

This means an end to our independance, and that is the plain truth.

If these deals were "FAIR" to our own workers, it would be a different story.
Look for more trade deficits that we can't control and a future where America goes bankrupt.

Fuck, the terrorists will get their wish because we'll drive ourselves to our knee's....

[Cathedral]

You know, I think the vote for CAFTA was illegal.
I just learned that there were two time extensions before the vote but i'm not sure the extensions were voted on.
CAFTA was clearly not going to pass if these extensions were necessary and i'm wondering what Bush and DeLay dangled in front of the opposers to get support for something that is clearly BAD for our country.

I know, it's easy for people who never lost a job directly due to a Bill being passed to say it's good for our economy.
But those people don't understand the fine print in these Trade Agreements.
I do, because i was in the Manufacturing Industry until NAFTA passed and screwed me out of a $15.00 an hour job with excellent benefits.
I just happened to be a newlywed and had a new baby to take care of at that time too.
That's when i had no choice but to get on welfare to pay my rent and feed my family.
In the early 90's, do you remember how hard it was to find a job that paid $15 bucks an hour?
I remember the average being around $8 to $10, and i couldn't live on that.

Those times were very tough, but i climbed my way out of it and it took me until 2 years ago to do it.
So yeah, I take it personally when people comment as though it was no biggie and that i should have just accepted it as, "it is what it is".

CODEX, do a search on it and take a look at what it means for us.
It was included in the CAFTA Bill.
Then come back and tell me that these deals are "FAIR" and "PROTECT" our labor force, our schools, our taxes, our health care system, and the list goes on.

Look at what NAFTA has done to Mexico, and then understand that the same thing is going to happen to our Central American neighbors in a few short years.

We not only don't manufacture anything anymore, we aren't educating innovators anymore either. The Knowledge field is also going overseas.

Anyone who thinks this is good for our economy has fucking rocks in their head, period...Do your fucking homework before jumping on the Bush band wagon, dammit.
I lived it, and i'm glad those of you who felt no impact from these deals were spared.
But will you be this time?

In the mid 90's when people were losing jobs left and right it was a time when productivity was high and so were Corporate Profits, so who benefits from these deals that offer no security or protection to our own labor force?
The rich, and those who were averaging $15-$17 an hour found themselves unable to find jobs over $10 an hour.

In my view, these Bills are Treasonous, straight the fuck up, Treason.

Bush is creating low wage jobs overseas by giving ours away, is that the kind of job creation you instilled your trust in the man to do?

I voted for the sack of shit twice, and i fucking regret it like i have never regretted anything in my entire fucking life.

Bush has done the opposite of everything he swore under oath to do for this country, and i hope God hands down his judgement exactly as he deserves it.

Christian my ass, he's a fucking Corporatist Criminal that has sold us out time and time again.

I'm pulling my support for everyone i supported that voted yes to this shit. And I am going to campaign and put my money against their bids for re-election.
I've had it, I'm done, and with any luck they will be gone come Mid-Term Elections.

Thanks for letting me vent, I can't fucking sleep because of this De Ja Vue BULLSHIT!



So it does get under my skin when people act as though it is no big deal.
I can't sleep because of what has just happened, and though i didn't understand NAFTA when it was passed, I fully fucking understand it now.

[Cathedral]

I've been working on this for two days, since the vote.
I'll share it with you all.
This is my first letter, and it's for my Rep. Mr. John Boehner.

I'm trying to write one for Bush, but i can't seem to keep my temper under control, lmmfao.

It begins with a "Thank You" in the subject field so whoever reads it will think it is supportive.

Anyway, here it is:

Dear Mr. John Boehner,
Why did you stand with Bush to help pass CAFTA by just two votes, adding to his political capital by giving him a major victory that hurts this country so badly, so fundamentally, so irreversibly?

You can say jobs, jobs, jobs, but what kind of jobs and for who, what kind of working conditions, and at what cost to the protection of our health and welfare with CAFTA putting so many critical decisions outside our system of governments and courts?

Your vote for CAFTA makes your votes in Congress and our votes at the ballot box less and less important while increasing the power of multi-national corporations that are larger than most countries and states and will run right over us.

And what's worse, you've been told this and told this time and time again.

Do you really not understand the magnitude of what you’ve done, the impact that your vote will have on our country and on our way of life for generations to come?

Do you just not believe it?

Then tell us how we're wrong about this and how Bush and the multi-nationals are right. And i am not interested in regurgitated speeches that have been told to the American People which we know is simply garbage. Remember, we already know the failures of NAFTA.

Don't talk about jobs, jobs, jobs, but speak to the bigger, life-and-death issue of the closed Chapter Eleven NAFTA and CAFTA tribunals that can overrule our state and federal court systems, Congress, state governments, and local governments no matter what the cost to the health and safety of our families, neighborhoods, and communities. And talk to the issue that these tribunals just work in one direction, giving corporations recourse against our laws and regulations but giving us no recourse against the corporations.

And don't forget that your vote helped to pass a basically irreversible treaty and pave the way for more treaties like it.
I have supported you fully in the past, and you have sold us out in return. Your next bid for re-election will find me putting my support and my money against you. I fully intend to seek support from everyone i can to accomplish this task.
Your days in office are numbered if I have anything to say about it.

Sleep Well, though i don't see how you can at this point.

[Big Train]

Cathedral,

In your eyes, given all the facts we both agree to (Cheaper labor elsewhere, Americans being lazy, immigration issues), to YOU, what is the correct way for America to proceed. Curious how you see it.

[Cathedral]

How do I think America should proceed?
First, grab a drink and sit back, this will be a long post, lol.

I would fix it, because ending it would be disasterous not only to ourselves, but to all of the countries involved.
The Agreements need to be reviewed and re-written to remove the inequities that gives Corporations the Ultimate Power over us, and leaves us no recourse in disputes.

Provisions need to be made that protect the workers here at home and that keep companies here as well. And incentives must be added to spawn investment in this country which will bring businesses back to where they belong.
If NAFTA and CAFTA were "FAIR" Trade Agreements then they would have a positive impact for all who are involved, and not just the Corporations, who are the only one's who benefit from these Agreement's at present.

We should only do business with countries who share the exact labor and environmental and human rights standards that we do in all those countries.
We shouldn't be in the business of having free and open borders with countries that don't have the same environmental, labor and human rights standards. And if we do that, that alone will make us able to create manufacturing jobs in America again and they'll stay in America.
China for example, It's a Communist Nation, so I wouldn't do business with them at all because by doing so, we support Communism.

Yet China is the biggest producer of American goods and has become the number one importer we deal with. This has basically made China what America used to be and in the last 11 years over 800,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost here at home because these Trade Agreements simply are not fair and only benefit the Corporations...They profit, We suffer.

NAFTA, was a 2000 page document, and most who voted for it didn't even read the damn thing. So what i would do is simple, I'd fix the Agreements by reviewing them and re-write them excluding everything that was not equal for ALL who are involved. This would also stem migration because if NAFTA had done what it was "CLAIMED" to do, wages would be higher in the countries where we are currently running up a collective annual $200 billion dollar trade deficit. which upon further review leads me to believe that it is the fact that even our low paying jobs are better than what is available in Mexico so they flock here as a means to survive. And this screams to me the entire reason why our borders remain wide open and nothing is done to curb illegal immigration.

How can Bush close the borders when he himself supports the agreements that created the problem in the first place?

Illegal Immigration has doubled since NAFTA became a failure.

The Americans i agreed that were lazy, maybe aren't lazy at all. They just can't find jobs that are sufficient enough to take care of their families and either end up on welfare or drifting from job to job trying to get a leg up...This is exactly what i have done over the last decade, and i'm no lazy fuck.
Canada is currently looking into fixing the agreement on their end, yet not one American politician who has seen the failures of NAFTA over the last decade and can begin the process of fixing it has stepped forward to do so, No, instead we passed another one that makes even less provisions for the worker and increases the profit margin for the Corporations who have control over our government, and more to come shortly.

It is MY goal to support leadership that intends to fix these inequities and apply provisions that protect the workers in all the participating Nations in persuit of a Fair and Equal Trade Agreement that benefits not only Corporations, but those who actually build the prospective countries which are the workers in these countries.

See, I'm not against Trade Agreements, I am against the way they have been executed which has led to the erosion of our own country as well as those who believed the bullshit as we did.

NAFTA was a failure, and CAFTA is an extension of that failure that does even more damage that will be evident over the next decade.

All that said, I'd simply disect it and fix what has clearly proven to be bad for everyone.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by Cathedral


Provisions need to be made that protect the workers here at home and that keep companies here as well. And incentives must be added to spawn investment in this country which will bring businesses back to where they belong.
If NAFTA and CAFTA were "FAIR" Trade Agreements then they would have a positive impact for all who are involved, and not just the Corporations, who are the only one's who benefit from these Agreement's at present.

We should only do business with countries who share the exact labor and environmental and human rights standards that we do in all those countries.
We shouldn't be in the business of having free and open borders with countries that don't have the same environmental, labor and human rights standards. And if we do that, that alone will make us able to create manufacturing jobs in America again and they'll stay in America.
China for example, It's a Communist Nation, so I wouldn't do business with them at all because by doing so, we support Communism.

This would also stem migration because if NAFTA had done what it was "CLAIMED" to do, wages would be higher in the countries where we are currently running up a collective annual $200 billion dollar trade deficit. which upon further review leads me to believe that it is the fact that even our low paying jobs are better than what is available in Mexico so they flock here as a means to survive. And this screams to me the entire reason why our borders remain wide open and nothing is done to curb illegal immigration.

The Americans i agreed that were lazy, maybe aren't lazy at all. They just can't find jobs that are sufficient enough to take care of their families and either end up on welfare or drifting from job to job trying to get a leg up.

When you say provisions, like what? How do you overcome the cold hard facts? Any product that we make in America and try to sell elsewhere is going to be 3-5x as expensive as one they have made? Who do you sell that to? Second, if you give HUGE tax breaks (which you would have to to offset costs), the community with the factory makes very little from the companies presence outside of taxed worker salaries. You end up still at square one.

Immigration has little to do with NAFTA and a lot to do with lax rules and opportunity . Yes, the opportunity there is slim to none. If they did make as much as American workers and such, yea Americans should be pissed. But they don't. But they come here because they can. If China was next door, they would be flocking here too. So what? Should they be making 40k with benefits? Is that what you mean by fair and equitable?

Americans are lazy. A lot of them are looking to get what their WWII parents told them "Get a good job with security and benefits". A sound theory indeed. However, an outmoded one. We are in a different time and place, a place where you will have many careers over your life. A place where "renting" your skills becomes the norm, not working as an employee. Where owning your own business is the most secure way to do things. Its an ownership society. It has been for quite some time. Americans don't want to change with the world, but want to stubbornly cling onto the way "my daddy did it". It's a mistake and it's a shame for future generations.