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LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 01:25 AM
Bush poised to set vacationing record
Visits to Crawford outpacing Reagan
By Jim VandeHei and Peter Baker, Washington Post | August 3, 2005

WACO, Texas -- President Bush is getting the kind of break most Americans can only dream of -- 33 days away from the office, loaded with vacation time.

The president departed yesterday for his longest stretch away from the White House, arriving at his Crawford ranch in the evening for five weeks of clearing brush, visiting with family and friends, and tending to some outside-the-Beltway politics. By historical standards, it is the longest presidential retreat in at least 36 years.

The August getaway is Bush's 49th trip to his cherished ranch since taking office and the 319th day that Bush has spent, entirely or partially, in Crawford -- nearly 20 percent of his presidency to date, according to Mark Knoller, a CBS Radio reporter known for keeping better records of the president's travel than the White House itself. Weekends at Camp David or at his parents' compound in Kennebunkport, Maine, bump up the proportion of Bush's time away from Washington even further.

Bush's long vacations are more than a curiosity: They play into diametrically opposite arguments about this leadership style. To critics and late-night comics, they symbolize a lackadaisical approach to the world's most important day job, an impression bolstered by Bush's two-hour midday exercise sessions and his disinclination to work nights or weekends. The more vociferous among Bush's foes have noted that he spent a month at the ranch shortly before the 9/11 attacks, when critics assert he should have been more attentive to warning signs.

To Bush and his advisers, that criticism fundamentally misunderstands his Texas sojourns. Those who think he does not remain in command, aides say, do not understand the modern presidency or Bush's own work habits. At the ranch, White House officials say, Bush continues to receive daily national security briefings, sign documents, hold teleconferences with aides and military commanders, and even meet with foreign leaders. And from the president's point of view, the long Texas stints are the best way to clear his mind and reconnect with everyday America.

''I'm looking forward to getting down there and just kind of settling in," Bush told reporters from Texas newspapers during a Monday interview at the White House.

Just as Bush has made these August trips a regular feature of his presidency, so, too, have Democrats made a tradition of needling him about them. This year, opposition politicians are tying his departure from Washington to the CIA leak case that has swept up his top adviser, Karl Rove.

Until now, probably no modern president was a more famous vacationer than Ronald Reagan. According to an Associated Press count, Reagan spent all or part of 335 days at his Santa Barbara ranch over his eight-year presidency -- a total that Bush will surpass this month in Crawford with 3 1/2 years left in his second term.

:mad:

Redballjets88
08-04-2005, 01:26 AM
i took a vacation last week does that make me unamerican... he has the most stressful job on earth he probably needs a vacation

FORD
08-04-2005, 01:39 AM
Looks like they need the monkey out of the way again to plan the next "terrorist attack"

Forcing Adolf Bolton into the UN was no mere act of arrogance. They needed him there for a reason.

Enjoy this month kids, because something really fucked up is gonna happen in September or October. You heard it here first. :(

Redballjets88
08-04-2005, 01:40 AM
and if it doesnt then i will throw this back in your face and will be your unadulturated master

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i took a vacation last week does that make me unamerican... he has the most stressful job on earth he probably needs a vacation

Jesus Christ you're a fucking moron.

Nice comparison, dickwad.

Pre-pube asshole who can't even vote, shut the fuck up.

Did your daddy teach you the "call them unamerican" bullshit?

Go clean your room

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
and if it doesnt then i will throw this back in your face and will be your unadulturated master

How was Disneyland?

Did mommy buy you cool stuff?

Redballjets88
08-04-2005, 01:45 AM
yeah pre-prubecent....when did you hit puberty? bc 17 is just a tad past that time of life.

once again just bc i cant vote doesnt mean i dont have an opinion


and last it is a compairison bc you are calling bush out bc he is going on vaction...i just went on vaction...the main point of each sentece is vacation

good job lounge at sucking ass

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
and if it doesnt then i will throw this back in your face and will be your unadulturated master

You aren't the master of anyone, punk.


Go enlist, tough guy

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88


and last it is a compairison bc you are calling bush out bc he is going on vaction...i just went on vaction...the main point of each sentece is vacation



HUKED ON FONIKS WURKS FER ME

[No Child Left Behind]

Stay in School, Gump.

Redballjets88
08-04-2005, 01:50 AM
did i say i was? no i said i will be when ford is wrong.

enlisting has nothing to do with whats going on in this thread. if i were to enlist it would be for a war i actually have interest in.... iraq is bs for the most part. i would enlist if we fought a war that meant something

Redballjets88
08-04-2005, 01:52 AM
HUKED ON FONIKS WURKS FER ME

hey why dont ya quit with the stupidty and actually make a point that has some validity to the arguement

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 04:16 AM
Well, I guess BIG TRAIN and GUITAR SHARK are right...Americans are lazy and stupid.:)

blueturk
08-04-2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88


enlisting has nothing to do with whats going on in this thread. if i were to enlist it would be for a war i actually have interest in....

Yes, it's always good to try to find a war you're interested in...maybe we can start a Britney vs. Christina war. That should interest you, young sheep.

blueturk
08-04-2005, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i took a vacation last week does that make me unamerican... he has the most stressful job on earth he probably needs a vacation


"Reading is the basics for all learning." —George W. Bush, announcing his "Reading First" initiative in Reston, Va., March 28, 2000

blueturk
08-04-2005, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
hey why dont ya quit with the stupidty and actually make a point that has some validity to the arguement


"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —George W. Bush, Florence, South Carolina, Jan. 11, 2000

Warham
08-04-2005, 08:50 AM
I'm going to check and see if Lyndon Johnson went to Camp David or back home to Texas during the Vietnam War, when an average of 350 died a week.

thome
08-04-2005, 09:08 AM
You are wierd, do you think anyone is that far from a phone
every president works every day.

Your threads are imature and wholy bent on badmouthing our
country thinly veiled as badmouthing Bush......Rat Bastard.

Fool the youngster i see your tricks.

Even you must know how Stupid this is.

Warham
08-04-2005, 09:15 AM
Lounge's hatred for Bush goes beyond logic and reason.

thome
08-04-2005, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Lounge's hatred for Bush goes beyond logic and reason.

The hatred seems more at the USA .m op.

I dont think ive ever seen a political post of his that was positive.

Hes just as goofy as everyone else in the other forums ULTRA goofy.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Lounge's hatred for Bush goes beyond logic and reason.

No, I've heard LOUNGE make negative comments regarding BILL CLINTON.

You however have never met a REPUBLICAN talking point, policy, President you didn't like. You are no one to call out anyone on irrational hatreds...

Warham
08-04-2005, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, I've heard LOUNGE make negative comments regarding BILL CLINTON.

You however have never met a REPUBLICAN talking point, policy, President you didn't like. You are no one to call out anyone on irrational hatreds...

Bzzzzzz!

Wrong as usual.

I've gone against a few Republican talking points, my loony liberal friend, such as illegal immigration.

And this thread isn't about Slick Willy. If you want a Slick Willy thread, I'll be glad to start one up.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Bzzzzzz!

Wrong as usual.

I've gone against a few Republican talking points, my loony liberal friend, such as illegal immigration.

And this thread isn't about Slick Willy. If you want a Slick Willy thread, I'll be glad to start one up.

Oh, you've only gone against the ones you perceive not to be hard right enough....big surprise BUSHEEP.

Don't act if you are some sane centrist WARHAM, you're and your crony friends are now part of an increasingly discredited movement drifting into obscurity, and you have your blind allegiance to fearless leader to blame for it.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm going to check and see if Lyndon Johnson went to Camp David or back home to Texas during the Vietnam War, when an average of 350 died a week.

Oh, from one of the guys that bitched about 18 guys getting killed in SOMALIA, fucking spare me!...:rolleyes:tell that to their families!

Here's the difference: (to paraphrase) "...today, I'm declaring an end to major combat operations in Iraq..."

http://www.insanereagan.com/images/mission_accomplished02-hires.jpg

Now, que civil war...

Warham
08-04-2005, 10:23 AM
I see we have no answer to that one, do we?

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I see we have no answer to that one, do we?

Answer to what?

Warham
08-04-2005, 10:32 AM
You guys like to go on and on about Bush taking vacations during this War, but what about the other ten or so Presidents who went on vacation during war time?

If it suits your agenda it's fine. If it doesn't, let's sweep it under the rug.

Warham
08-04-2005, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh, from one of the guys that bitched about 18 guys getting killed in SOMALIA, fucking spare me!...:rolleyes:tell that to their families!

Here's the difference: (to paraphrase) "...today, I'm declaring an end to major combat operations in Iraq..."

http://www.insanereagan.com/images/mission_accomplished02-hires.jpg

Now, que civil war...

I didn't bitch about 18 guys getting killed in Somalia, and I don't know where you think I said it.

And I don't know where you got Clinton out of this topic. I was addressing Lyndon Johnson's vacations, not Slick Willy.

Don't try to divert away from the intent of my posts.

Like I said before, if you want to talk about Slick Willy and his ethics violations, we can do that in another thread.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I didn't bitch about 18 guys getting killed in Somalia, and I don't know where you think I said it.

And I don't know where you got Clinton out of this topic. I was addressing Lyndon Johnson's vacations, not Slick Willy.

Don't try to divert away from the intent of my posts.

Like I said before, if you want to talk about Slick Willy and his ethics violations, we can do that in another thread.

LBJ took far less vactaion days than BUSH ever did. If you read the article, BUSH is about to surpass the previous record holder, REAGAN, six-months into his term.

LBJ did begin to hide away from the public, mostly appearing at functions with the troops. Expect the same from George the Lame soon.

And I was responding on the absurdity of your irrational hatred comment when I brought up "Slick Willy.";)

academic punk
08-04-2005, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i took a vacation last week does that make me unamerican... he has the most stressful job on earth he probably needs a vacation

The difference is you are a little inconsequential dweeb in the middle of nowhere.

If you become the world's most important PUBLIC SERVANT, you are agreeing to sacrifices on behalf of your country and its people. It's not like the job and its responsibilities were forced on the guy: HE CHOSE IT.

You think soldiers overseas think they desreve a break? I do. They deserve as much vacation as they want. They can't have it, though. A little busy.

Think about it.

academic punk
08-04-2005, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Warham


And this thread isn't about Slick Willy. If you want a Slick Willy thread, I'll be glad to start one up.

Credit to Warham, here: he HASN'T brought up Bill in some time, as far as I recall.

superdave
08-04-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
The difference is you are a little inconsequential dweeb in the middle of nowhere.

If you become the world's most important PUBLIC SERVANT, you are agreeing to sacrifices on behalf of your country and its people. It's not like the job and its responsibilities were forced on the guy: HE CHOSE IT.

You think soldiers overseas think they desreve a break? I do. They deserve as much vacation as they want. They can't have it, though. A little busy.

Think about it.


Great point, AP

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
The difference is you are a little inconsequential dweeb in the middle of nowhere.

If you become the world's most important PUBLIC SERVANT, you are agreeing to sacrifices on behalf of your country and its people. It's not like the job and its responsibilities were forced on the guy: HE CHOSE IT.

You think soldiers overseas think they desreve a break? I do. They deserve as much vacation as they want. They can't have it, though. A little busy.

Think about it.

AMEN

I love reading snot-nosed 17 year old punks who are waiting for the right war before enlisting, and comparing DisneyLand with mom and dad to THIS

Love my Country - Hate my Government

Only a brain washed moron is unable to tell the two apart

It is a Patriot's DUTY to question their Government, and hold them accountable.

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I'm going to check and see if Lyndon Johnson went to Camp David or back home to Texas during the Vietnam War, when an average of 350 died a week.

You do that.:rolleyes:

That's your Barometer? LBJ? Oh how low you've now set the bar for the Chimp

If I had been an adult in '64 I would be screaming the same thing to Johnson, regardless of his Party, dumbass

Hey, Hey, LBJ
How many kids did you kill today?

Wake up idiot, this has nothing to do with "hating" Bush, and EVERYTHING to do with his lack of compassion for REAL HUMAN LIFE

Your trying to compare him to Viet Nam era LBJ is laughable...thanks once again warpig for proving my own points for me;)

Guitar Shark
08-04-2005, 11:39 AM
LOL. There is absolutely NO way to defend Bush's vacation history, Warham. You just look stupid trying to do so.

The guy has spent more time on vacation than any other president in history. And during a time where our national security is supposedly at extremely high risk.

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
LOL. There is absolutely NO way to defend Bush's vacation history, Warham. You just look stupid trying to do so.

The guy has spent more time on vacation than any other president in history. And during a time where our national security is supposedly at extremely high risk.

EXACTLY!!!

:cool:

BigBadBrian
08-04-2005, 01:02 PM
I've posted this in the past.

The POTUS is NEVER on vacation.

I interviewed for the WH flying telecommunications team (back under the Slick Willy reign ) and believe me, the MAN is NEVER out of touch with ANYONE or ANYTHING.

Even on vacation, the POTUS' day is mostly filled with briefings, phone calls, and meetings with people flying in to meet with him. These views you see on the news are just photo ops. Crap people, even the President needs to leave DC once in awhile....ever been to that damn place?

It's no wonder Bill was banging Monica. Too bad she wasn't better looking, though.

TripleB® over and out.

:gulp:

blueturk
08-04-2005, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian


It's no wonder Bill was banging Monica. Too bad she wasn't better looking, though.



If I remember right, Clinton looked at the top of her head more than he did her face, BBB!

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 06:37 PM
I agree with Warham, hey redball i got your back

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 06:44 PM
I still dont know why a certain Canadian so worried about "our American president"

doesn't Canada have their own problems?


Liberals, and democrats. my best friends.

I wonder what DLR thinks abou that. I guess you guys haven't listened to his radio show in BOSTON.

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 06:47 PM
Another thing, you guys mean to tell me that NO OTHER PRESIDENT HAS NEVER TAKEN TIME OFF DURING A WAR OR CONFLICT?

EVER??

blueturk
08-04-2005, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
I still dont know why a certain Canadian so worried about "our American president"

doesn't Canada have their own problems?


Liberals, and democrats. my best friends.

I wonder what DLR thinks abou that. I guess you guys haven't listened to his radio show in BOSTON.

What in the hell is this guy talking about? Did I miss something?

"I have a different vision of leadership. A leadership is someone who brings people together." —George W. Bush, Bartlett, Tenn., Aug. 18, 2000

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 07:01 PM
well what the hell are you talking about blue?

why is ford so bothered about Bush going on vacation he is canadian,

guitar shark commented that Bush spends more time on VACAtion than any other president i.e. during wartime.

and clinton in the 90's what the hell was he doing when he was supposed to be working, getting blown by Monica Lewinski,

cutting back on defense, going after Bill gates instead of going after the sons of bitches that BOMBED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 07:06 PM
Another thing ...How come you liberals can never give a decent rebutal without putting someone down?

why don't you guys think abou that.

Another question have you guys thanked MrAl gore for this website?

after all HE claims to have in vented the internet

Guitar Shark
08-04-2005, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
why is ford so bothered about Bush going on vacation he is canadian,


FORD is not Canadian, although I'm sure he's thought about emigrating.

academic punk
08-04-2005, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
Another thing ...How come you liberals can never give a decent rebutal without putting someone down?

why don't you guys think abou that.



How ironic...in attacking one person for his particular comments you seek to marginalize and stereotype EVERYONE who doesn't necessarily agree with you ("You liberals"). And you you point out that 'we" attack everyone...by attacking us.

Look in the mirror fuckface. Try not to cry.

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 07:21 PM
That is all oyu have to say?

yeah get off the subject.

He's always told me on threads he was canadian, he has never denied it.

answer the question or give me a rebutal.

hollywood5150
08-04-2005, 07:28 PM
A question to the ROTH Army:

Have you guys noticed that we are all at eachothers throats when we talk politics?

I really have nothing personal with any of you guys. REALY I DONT.

But I do support the roth army members.

Notice my post on the thread of the Pleasure dome.

and back to the initial subject. (Guitar Shark and FORD)

what do you guys think about what i wrote in post #42

the Clinton in the 90's part, which some believe was an INdirect cause of the 9-11/war??

let me know (lets cut the personal insults and bullshit)

GAR
08-04-2005, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
(lets cut the personal insults and bullshit)

I consider this an attack on my personal posting style, my fair turdblossom.

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
I still dont know why a certain Canadian so worried about "our American president"

doesn't Canada have their own problems?


Liberals, and democrats. my best friends.

I wonder what DLR thinks abou that. I guess you guys haven't listened to his radio show in BOSTON.

Who gives a shit what DAVE's political leanings are? SAMMY HAGAR is a REPUBLICAN, oh nevermind, you like him even more than DAVE...:rolleyes:

blueturk
08-04-2005, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by hollywood5150
well what the hell are you talking about blue?

why is ford so bothered about Bush going on vacation he is canadian,

guitar shark commented that Bush spends more time on VACAtion than any other president i.e. during wartime.

and clinton in the 90's what the hell was he doing when he was supposed to be working, getting blown by Monica Lewinski,

cutting back on defense, going after Bill gates instead of going after the sons of bitches that BOMBED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!

Hey asshole, all I read in your post that I asked about were vague references to a Canadian, puzzling daclarations of friendship with liberals,and some questions as to DLR's politics.

I don't know if Ford is Canadian or not. I've never heard it mentioned before, but maybe I wasn't on here at the time.

Guitar Shark was right. The vacation time thing is now official. WTF?

Don't talk to me about Clinton. I'm not as prolific as some people on here, but I have never praised or defended Clinton. I HAVE blasted Bush and will continue to do so for too many reasons to go into here and waste time on your stupid ass.

"The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending time investigating it." —George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18, 2005

ODShowtime
08-04-2005, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You guys like to go on and on about Bush taking vacations during this War, but what about the other ten or so Presidents who went on vacation during war time?

If it suits your agenda it's fine. If it doesn't, let's sweep it under the rug.

I finally figured out what's wrong with you.

It's always comparisons. That's all you ever do. Everything we bitch about you draw a comparison to something else. That's the only arguement you ever make!

Compare our country to the way it was 5 years ago goddamn it!

ODShowtime
08-04-2005, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
once again just bc i cant vote doesnt mean i dont have an opinion

It just means that your opinion doesn't count.

ODShowtime
08-04-2005, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I love reading snot-nosed 17 year old punks who are waiting for the right war before enlisting,

I don't think he understands what's at stake when there's a "right war" to enlist for.

ODShowtime
08-04-2005, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
"The best place for the facts to be done is by somebody who's spending time investigating it." —George W. Bush, on the probe into how CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity was leaked, Washington D.C., July 18, 2005

Maybe he's a some kind of robot sent to destroy us and his programming got fucked up. What else could explain gibberish like that? :confused:

BTW I'm diggin those quotes.

DLR'sCock
08-04-2005, 10:29 PM
Fucking scumbag self serving pieces of shit.

Karma will come to you and you will know. There is no escaping the path you create. Ever.

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 10:30 PM
Redtwat88, and holly would 5150

Not a coherent thought, or complete sentence between you.

Why do you care so much what we think anyway?

Ignore us and go back to sucking spammy's ass

[someone's gotta do it, I suppose]

If your combined IQ levels should ever approach room temperature, feel free to join the conversation.

Mmmkay?

Big Train
08-04-2005, 10:34 PM
To compare his "vacation" time to other president's is inaccurate. In the era of modern communications, he is always "on". This isn't like the era of say Garfield, where he is literally disappearing for weeks.

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think he understands what's at stake when there's a "right war" to enlist for.

I don't think he understands basic English, either.....;)


He's 17, he's parroting what he hears at the dinner table.

$20 bucks says he can't name either one of his Senators, his Congressman, or his Governor for that matter without hitting Google.:cool:

LoungeMachine
08-04-2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
To compare his "vacation" time to other president's is inaccurate. In the era of modern communications, he is always "on". This isn't like the era of say Garfield, where he is literally disappearing for weeks.

No shit.

If you'll notice, the only ones making lame comparisons are the Neo Cons, and the Acne crowd.

ANYONE WITH A BRAIN KNOWS IT'S NOT THE REALITY, BUT THE PERCEPTION THAT IS THE FOCUS.

Here you have a country that is watching it's men and women dying on a daily basis, our liberties being eroded, our administration lying and exposing intteligence officers, and an ioncreasingly unstable world.

IT'S SENDS A TERRIBLE MESSAGE THAT THE CHIMP SAYS "FUCK IT", IF YOU NEED ME i'LL BE IN CRAWFORD FOR 5 WEEKS.

It stinks, and you know it. I bet he has one of those $1.99 yellow ribbon magnets on his truck made in China saying SUPPORT OUR TROOPS

Hope he brought along a copy of MY PET GOAT

GAR
08-04-2005, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Hope he brought along a copy of MY PET GOAT

Why? Whassat about..

Nickdfresh
08-04-2005, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
To compare his "vacation" time to other president's is inaccurate. In the era of modern communications, he is always "on". This isn't like the era of say Garfield, where he is literally disappearing for weeks.

Except for when he's out chopping wood or riding his mountain bike into trees.

ODShowtime
08-05-2005, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Except for when he's out chopping wood

Now there's a job gw is qualified for.

thome
08-05-2005, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Except for when he's out chopping wood or riding his mountain bike into trees.

Now, thats funny!!

But hey how many times have i done that ,got the Dain Bramadge.

I think you can be against a presidents policies and still be a loyal
American.But the liberal answers seem only ..Accusations.. not
ideas of how to make it better.

Gripe about the Irak war.. Unable to see Clintons Neglect as the major
cause ...Bush is a Monkey ...Ect..

Same old same

I think Bush senior could have done more also

JR is takeing care of something that should have been done a long
time ago.

NightProwler
08-05-2005, 08:59 AM
Support dumbya? Enlist to go fight his war in iraq!

academic punk
08-05-2005, 09:01 AM
Originally posted by thome
Now, thats funny!!

But hey how many times have i done that ,got the Dain Bramadge.

I think you can be against a presidents policies and still be a loyal
American.But the liberal answers seem only ..Accusations.. not
ideas of how to make it better.

Gripe about the Irak war.. Unable to see Clintons Neglect as the major
cause ...Bush is a Monkey ...Ect..

Same old same

I think Bush senior could have done more also

JR is takeing care of something that should have been done a long
time ago.

Who wants to bet that this guy is actually a FORD alias?

thome
08-05-2005, 09:04 AM
Attn Deff. Im not that smart.What??

BigBadBrian
08-05-2005, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Fucking scumbag self serving pieces of shit.

Karma will come to you and you will know. There is no escaping the path you create. Ever.

There is no such thing as "Karma" you silly little man. Quit believing in fairy tales. ;)

:gulp:

NightProwler
08-05-2005, 09:28 AM
"little man"

There IS such a thing as "Projection".

Look it up!

LoungeMachine
08-06-2005, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
There is no such thing as "Karma" you silly little man. Quit believing in fairy tales. ;)

:gulp:

That's classic.

Especially coming from someone who takes the Bible Literally.

Isn't God rewarding good deeds "karma"?

Isn't God punishing "sin" "karma"?


Speaking of Fairy Tales......

academic punk
08-06-2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
That's classic.

Especially coming from someone who takes the Bible Literally.

Isn't God rewarding good deeds "karma"?

Isn't God punishing "sin" "karma"?


Speaking of Fairy Tales......

Best comeback...EVER.

LoungeMachine
08-06-2005, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
Who wants to bet that this guy is actually a FORD alias?

My money is on katydid.

Even spells etc. ECT as that dumb cow used to.:rolleyes:

DLR'sCock
08-06-2005, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
There is no such thing as "Karma" you silly little man. Quit believing in fairy tales. ;)

:gulp:


Hey stupid, Karma is nothing more than Cause and Effect as in nature, Action and Reaction in physics, and reaping what you sow.

The ol' phrase, "what comes around, goes around" is quite true....


To think that you work somehow outside of the framework of life well....you are the delusional, that is true....

DLR'sCock
08-06-2005, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
That's classic.

Especially coming from someone who takes the Bible Literally.

Isn't God rewarding good deeds "karma"?

Isn't God punishing "sin" "karma"?


Speaking of Fairy Tales......


Actually Lounge, it is pretty much the same thing...

Of course BigBadBlunder must have missed the little bus today....

FORD
08-06-2005, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
Who wants to bet that this guy is actually a FORD alias?

Eye cant evin pretennd to b that stuped.

ALinChainz
08-06-2005, 03:19 PM
You're always being a dick, Joe.

How about telling us why you post as "Longdong" when you HATE african americans and you've admittied in drunken posts many times that you are very small for a man.

You never seemed to address the issue of the ... TRUTH.

blueturk
08-06-2005, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Longdongsilver
ATT: LOUNG AND FORD. WE STILL HAVE YET TO HEAR YOUR THOGHTS AND COMMENTS ON THE 04 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN WHICH OUR GREAT PRESIDENT WON WITH A RECORD, AND YES YOU ARE AWARE, A RECORD NUMBER OF VOTES. IT HAS TO BE ATLEAST A LITTLE HUMILIATING THAT YOUR GUY GOT BURIED AND HAS YET TO BE HEARD FROM AGAIN, ISN'T IT??? NOT BEING A DICK, JUST CURIOUS, YOU NEVER SEEMED TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE. "

"I always jest to people, the Oval Office is the kind of place where people stand outside, they're getting ready to come in and tell me what for, and they walk in and get overwhelmed in the atmosphere, and they say, man, you're looking pretty." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Nov. 4, 2004

thome
08-06-2005, 04:43 PM
Brown nose posts to beat all get out

what a love fest

Daisy chain of ass kissin ECT..

can u spell codependance enable or some other nine dollar words in this two bit slog and look so smart im shure like whatever

Solving the worlds problems one Intellectally Mastered PHD at a time.

Here, lets have a beer a brawl about it.

Life is good

frets5150
08-06-2005, 04:59 PM
FUCKING COCK!!! :mad:

Nickdfresh
08-06-2005, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
My money is on katydid.

Even spells etc. ECT as that dumb cow used to.:rolleyes:

He also shares her retarded double standard on Christianity: Praising God and then wishing death onto to people in the same post....:rolleyes:

blueturk
08-06-2005, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
He also shares her retarded double standard on Christianity: Praising God and then wishing death onto to people in the same post....:rolleyes:

Maybe God spoke to thome after His latest conference with Dubya.

"God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." —George W. Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004

FORD
08-06-2005, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
He also shares her retarded double standard on Christianity: Praising God and then wishing death onto to people in the same post....:rolleyes:

As did the Pastor Bruce personality who briefly visited us.

Warham
08-06-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
That's classic.

Especially coming from someone who takes the Bible Literally.

Isn't God rewarding good deeds "karma"?

Isn't God punishing "sin" "karma"?


Speaking of Fairy Tales......

No, God only gives a reward for good deeds to those who have taken his Son, Jesus Christ, as their savior. That doesn't fit in with the definition of karma, since there is a stipulation involved.

Warham
08-06-2005, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
Best comeback...EVER.

Actually, it's not a good comeback.

Lounge obviously never attended Sunday School.

academic punk
08-07-2005, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Warham
No, God only gives a reward for good deeds to those who have taken his Son, Jesus Christ, as their savior. That doesn't fit in with the definition of karma, since there is a stipulation involved.

Actually, I'm confused. Care to elaborate?

Karma is if you act and think in good/bad manners, then you will get your just rewards.

The same applies in Chjristianity, no? If you think impure thoughts, you will have to repent. If you behave in a righteous manner, you will be rewarded for your behavior.

Karma worls the same way as any religion or religious philosohpy, as it has its roots in Buddhism, which has tis roots in basiclaly a big ol' milk shake of all the worlds religions and acceptance of all.

thome
08-07-2005, 10:17 AM
I'll bet one weeks pay GW could beat the sh@t out of you.
Go say this crap to his face tough guys.

And I do not prefer Death to my Enemies or the enemies of Peace

but i and we should kill when abolute words wont work.

Go put your steak on the grill that someone else killed and dressed
for you and tell me again about your theories of life and death.

I wish i could post my op wich are no better or worse than yours
without you internet brawlers gettin all huffy puffy and tufffy.

BigBadBrian
08-07-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by academic punk

The same applies in Chjristianity, no? If you think impure thoughts, you will have to repent. If you behave in a righteous manner, you will be rewarded for your behavior.



It just doesn't work that way. Sorry.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by thome
I'll bet one weeks pay GW could beat the sh@t out of you.


My $2K [avg] VS your $150.00 ?? Those are some pretty good odds you're giving yourself there, Archie

It's pretty easy to be the world's "tuff guy" when you have Armored Divisions and the 101st. Airborne to back you up as well, not to mention the Secret Service and US Marshalls

The Chimp really is your own little fantasy action doll, aint he Gump?

But I'll accept your wager. Bring your hero to me and I'll say everything I've said in here to his face. [ we'll need someone to explain the big words to him, though]

:cool:

NightProwler
08-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Is this a sports book?

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It just doesn't work that way. Sorry.

:gulp:

No need to apologize, Bri....you didn't make the rules.

By the way, can I still bring my unruly child to middle of the town and stone him to death as a punishment?

And isn't the entire NFL going to hell for touching the skin of a dead pig?

You follow your Bible, Karma is working just fine for me....

Treat those as you wish to be treated and good things come your way

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by NightProwler
Is this a sports book?

Yes, the over-under on thome's IQ is currently at 94

You still have time to get your bet down

NightProwler
08-07-2005, 11:43 AM
your child's "unruly"? you're lucky they don't stone you!

Warham
08-07-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No need to apologize, Bri....you didn't make the rules.

By the way, can I still bring my unruly child to middle of the town and stone him to death as a punishment?

And isn't the entire NFL going to hell for touching the skin of a dead pig?

You follow your Bible, Karma is working just fine for me....

Treat those as you wish to be treated and good things come your way

So let's say somebody's a serial killer like Ted Bundy and kills, oh, let's say about twenty people under the age of 30. Then said killer lives to the ripe old age of 80.

Where does karma take effect there?

NightProwler
08-07-2005, 11:47 AM
karma (what comes around goes around) is a myth. That's why many cowardly bastards (hitler) kill themselves, to fuck with the system.

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Warham
So let's say somebody's a serial killer like Ted Bundy and kills, oh, let's say about twenty people under the age of 30. Then said killer lives to the ripe old age of 80.

Where does karma take effect there?

Ask Joe Thunder.

He was used as a fuckbag in prison ;)

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:53 AM
I love the hard right turn this thread took.

Sure saves Warpig from having to further defend the Chimp's 5 week vacation while we're still at "war"

NightProwler
08-07-2005, 11:54 AM
Give me $100 on the under!

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by NightProwler
Give me $100 on the under!

Safe bet:D

NightProwler
08-07-2005, 12:10 PM
It appears to be a sucker bet...which is which is why I HAD to take it!

academic punk
08-07-2005, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Yes, the over-under on thome's IQ is currently at 94

You still have time to get your bet down

I'm going with "under".

Waaay under.

And I'll bet the farm on it.

FORD
08-07-2005, 12:19 PM
Isn't it funny how "Thome" suddenly disappeared and now the foot sniffer is back?

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
I'm going with "under".

Waaay under.

And I'll bet the farm on it.

Turtle farm no doubt;)

I need to lay off some of this action, or I'm going to get wiped out.

There's got to be somebody dumb enough to take the over......

LoungeMachine
08-07-2005, 12:24 PM
Hmmmm.

thome = Wayne?

Not a stretch at all

academic punk
08-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Warham
So let's say somebody's a serial killer like Ted Bundy and kills, oh, let's say about twenty people under the age of 30. Then said killer lives to the ripe old age of 80.

Where does karma take effect there?

INteresting question.

They CAN potentially have their karma affect them in this lifetime - punishment, rejection, etc.

If they continue to act in bad manners throughout their life, then they will either die a violent, painful death and/or enter a purgatory, but never find "grace".

Or their karma could affect them in their next life - they could be reborn as something undesirable, or handicapped, or any numer of other "punishments" or means of balancing the scale.

No different really than religion - if someone finds God - and actualy Mark David Chapman is a good example - they CAN be "found". (Chapman - Lennon's killer - now actually runs a Christian bloc in his prison.)

As Christianity acknowledges - we are all sinners...it is what you do with the sin and if you learn and grow from it that matters.

DLR'sCock
08-07-2005, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I love the hard right turn this thread took.

Sure saves Warpig from having to further defend the Chimp's 5 week vacation while we're still at "war"


Dumya doesn't give a flying fuck about the soldiers or any of this countries citizens, but then again there are many many people in high levels of power that don't.

DLR'sCock
08-07-2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
INteresting question.

They CAN potentially have their karma affect them in this lifetime - punishment, rejection, etc.

If they continue to act in bad manners throughout their life, then they will either die a violent, painful death and/or enter a purgatory, but never find "grace".

Or their karma could affect them in their next life - they could be reborn as something undesirable, or handicapped, or any numer of other "punishments" or means of balancing the scale.

No different really than religion - if someone finds God - and actualy Mark David Chapman is a good example - they CAN be "found". (Chapman - Lennon's killer - now actually runs a Christian bloc in his prison.)

As Christianity acknowledges - we are all sinners...it is what you do with the sin and if you learn and grow from it that matters.

Well, yes, if one believes that we live on eternally and say they are put into purgatory or "hell", then what they have done will come back to them. If one believes that you do come back again(unknowing to yourself) then your past deeds will come back to you.

blueturk
08-07-2005, 01:46 PM
Oh well , at least she tried...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8851911/

Mom of fallen soldier leads Bush protest
Woman met with Bush shortly after her son's death


Updated: 10:49 a.m. ET Aug. 7, 2005
CRAWFORD, Texas - A determined mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who has pledged to hold a roadside peace protest near President Bush’s ranch until he talks to her said Sunday that she met with the president shortly after her son died.

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., said she was among several relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq who were invited to meet with Bush in June 2004 at Fort Lewis near Seattle, Wash.

She said her meeting with Bush occurred two months after her son, Casey, was killed in Sadr City, Irag, on April 4, 2004. Since then, she said, various government and independent commission reports have disputed the Bush administration’s claims that Saddam Hussein had mass-killing chemical and biological weapons — a main justification for the March 2003 invasion.


“I was still in shock then,” Sheehan said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. “It takes about eight or nine months for the shock to subside. Now, I’m angry. I want the troops home.

“All of those reports prove my son died needlessly. This proved that every reason George Bush gave us for going to war was wrong.”

Sheehan has not seen Bush, but she did talk for about 45 minutes on Saturday with Steve Hadley, Bush’s national security adviser, and Joe Hagin, deputy White House chief of staff, who went out to hear her concerns.

Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Sheehan, who formed a group called Gold Star Families For Peace, has spoken out against the war across the nation.

She alleged that Secret Service agents in Crawford were trying to coerce her into leaving. She said the agents have told protesters that if they stay along the road, about five miles from Bush’s ranch, they may be hit by Secret Service vehicles.

The Secret Service in Washington said it was unaware of any such incidents.

“We respect the right of the public to demonstrate to express their views,” said Secret Service spokesman Jonathan Cherry. “Our goal is to have a safe environment for our protectees — in this case — the president — and the demonstrators who want to express their views.”

academic punk
08-07-2005, 02:24 PM
The above story is getting waaaay too much press attention for it not have been set up and arranged. It's a not at all uncommon situation, yet she knew EXACTLY where to set up camp so as not to get arrested, she's got the perfect quotes for the soundbytes, and plus she's all over the media.

Kind of like Rosa Parks, this all sounds prearranged, and is going exactly according to plan.

What does surprise me is how low support for the war is now in these latest polls: only THIRTY-FOUR PERCENt approval rating for the war???

Insane...

thome
08-07-2005, 02:38 PM
And in this corner weighing in at ten thousand proper subjects verbs
nouns and predicates the LOUNGE LIZZARD.

In the red trunks.weighing in with the weight of the world on his shoulders GW the Texas dyslexic Bad Speaker Speller ECT..

You are out classed out educated out of the closet.Bush would clean
your clock.DING !

LOL!

blueturk
08-07-2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
The above story is getting waaaay too much press attention for it not have been set up and arranged. It's a not at all uncommon situation, yet she knew EXACTLY where to set up camp so as not to get arrested, she's got the perfect quotes for the soundbytes, and plus she's all over the media.

Kind of like Rosa Parks, this all sounds prearranged, and is going exactly according to plan.

What does surprise me is how low support for the war is now in these latest polls: only THIRTY-FOUR PERCENt approval rating for the war???

Insane...

What's insane is how surprised you are at the low support for the war. The main argument for invading Iraq in the first place was because of non-existent WMD's. When that fell through, the war became a war against terrorism, even though Bush has admitted there is no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. This is Dubya's war, not because of terrorism but because Junior had a personal grudge against Saddam Hussein. 1700 Americans have died, but Osama bin Laden is still free. Saddam Hussein is in jail, and The Chimp is happy.

You sheep seem to have forgotten about bin Laden as well.

Warham
08-07-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
INteresting question.

They CAN potentially have their karma affect them in this lifetime - punishment, rejection, etc.

If they continue to act in bad manners throughout their life, then they will either die a violent, painful death and/or enter a purgatory, but never find "grace".

Or their karma could affect them in their next life - they could be reborn as something undesirable, or handicapped, or any numer of other "punishments" or means of balancing the scale.

No different really than religion - if someone finds God - and actualy Mark David Chapman is a good example - they CAN be "found". (Chapman - Lennon's killer - now actually runs a Christian bloc in his prison.)

As Christianity acknowledges - we are all sinners...it is what you do with the sin and if you learn and grow from it that matters.

Karma still doesn't work well. So you did bad deeds in the last life, and come back as a handicapped person (sounds un-PC to me). Then you live a bad life as a handicapped person and come back as a dog. Then you live a good life as a dog and come back as a human. Then you live a bad life as a human and get shipped back down to dog level.

It's insane. Karma doesn't work, but Christianity does as there's only ONE life to live. Not thousands over millions of years to reach some sort of 'spiritual nirvana'.

If you don't take Christ as your savior, that's it. There is no second chance, there is no merit to any good deeds you did. It's eternity in hell. So, in my above example, if you were that guy who killed those twenty people, you wouldn't have to wait a few lifetimes to get your just deserts, you'll just have to wait until the end of this one and only life to find out that you've got a lifetime ticket of endless damnation.

FORD
08-07-2005, 06:16 PM
If karma is real, then somewhere out there is a Black Jewish lesbian who used to be Adolf Hitler. And for an added touch, maybe she lives in Palestine where she can be terrorized by Sharon's stormtroopers.

Warham
08-07-2005, 06:32 PM
:D

academic punk
08-07-2005, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Karma still doesn't work well. So you did bad deeds in the last life, and come back as a handicapped person (sounds un-PC to me). Then you live a bad life as a handicapped person and come back as a dog. Then you live a good life as a dog and come back as a human. Then you live a bad life as a human and get shipped back down to dog level.

It's insane. Karma doesn't work, but Christianity does as there's only ONE life to live. Not thousands over millions of years to reach some sort of 'spiritual nirvana'.

If you don't take Christ as your savior, that's it. There is no second chance, there is no merit to any good deeds you did. It's eternity in hell. So, in my above example, if you were that guy who killed those twenty people, you wouldn't have to wait a few lifetimes to get your just deserts, you'll just have to wait until the end of this one and only life to find out that you've got a lifetime ticket of endless damnation.

But that's mistaken, too, as I understand it. (and we've all simplified that concept of "karma" a bit much...it's a bit more than this, and more progressional and logical...)

But back to Catholicism, ANYONE can still be "saved", or "born again".

Otherwise, if you've sinned once - even if it was simply "lust", than you're damned for all time. People like our very own ELVIS would be lost, because it took his spiritual conflicts and obstacles to help him find Christ in the first place.

And with that logic, since you're ALREADY lost anyway, why not just keep on sinning? What's the use of repenting? Heck, even Jesus on the cross blessed the thief by his side, and promised that Heaven would be his.

As for karma, maybe think of it in terms if you wish bad or poorly towards another person, a co-worker, a boss, an ex-wife, whatever. just by doing that, you have allowed stress to come into your life, b/c your thoughts are focused on something not uplifting. As a result, you're walking around pissed off, you've got a chip on your shoulder, and you're angered. Anhd of course all your bad wishes are not going to cause a building to fall on the person's head anyway, so what's the point?

But if you walk away from bad situations, and are able to keep a positive outlook, even from a scientifiuc standpoint, you are more apt and able to release endorphins and serotonin into your brain, thus making you feel good.

Again, an oversimplificatimn

Warham
08-07-2005, 08:22 PM
People who are lost don't believe they've sinned or are sinning, until the desire for Christ enters their life. Then the blinders come off.

academic punk
08-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Warham
People who are lost don't believe they've sinned or are sinning, until the desire for Christ enters their life. Then the blinders come off.

So it IS possible for a murderer to find Christ and save his soul, right?

Warham
08-07-2005, 08:31 PM
Yes, it is. But the repentence has to be true.

academic punk
08-07-2005, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yes, it is. But the repentence has to be true.

Well, that's akin to a BROAD understanding of karma then.

As oyu understand it, what is the ocncept of predestination, and do you believe in it?

Warham
08-08-2005, 06:55 AM
Predestination? Predestination as I understand it means that God the Father has chosen who will be saved in eternity past. That he instills the desire to believe in Jesus Christ in a person's heart, otherwise they would never come to Him. That he has an active part in their choice.

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Karma still doesn't work well. So you did bad deeds in the last life, and come back as a handicapped person (sounds un-PC to me). Then you live a bad life as a handicapped person and come back as a dog. Then you live a good life as a dog and come back as a human. Then you live a bad life as a human and get shipped back down to dog level.

It's insane. Karma doesn't work, but Christianity does as there's only ONE life to live. Not thousands over millions of years to reach some sort of 'spiritual nirvana'.

If you don't take Christ as your savior, that's it. There is no second chance, there is no merit to any good deeds you did. It's eternity in hell. So, in my above example, if you were that guy who killed those twenty people, you wouldn't have to wait a few lifetimes to get your just deserts, you'll just have to wait until the end of this one and only life to find out that you've got a lifetime ticket of endless damnation.

So you don't really have to be a good person nor do good works, just say that you accept CHRIST as your personal savior? Are those the rules?

BigBadBrian
08-08-2005, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So you don't really have to be a good person nor do good works, just say that you accept CHRIST as your personal savior? Are those the rules?

Just saying it is not enough. You have to mean it, feel it, believe it. Then you will exemplify it. Good works will follow. That doesn't mean you're infallible, of course.

Good works are, of themselves, not the "ticket to Heaven" as Catholics preach.

:gulp:

Jesus Christ
08-08-2005, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So you don't really have to be a good person nor do good works, just say that you accept CHRIST as your personal savior? Are those the rules?

James 2

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?

5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

academic punk
08-08-2005, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Predestination? Predestination as I understand it means that God the Father has chosen who will be saved in eternity past. That he instills the desire to believe in Jesus Christ in a person's heart, otherwise they would never come to Him. That he has an active part in their choice.

That makes sense to me. As God would be all-knowing, He would know who would be Saved.

But it did get sort of bastardized somewhere along the way, and people began believing that they knew THEY had been saved.

As for the belief in Christ, that can't possibly be enough...or can it?

Look at the BTK example: he was an active member for years and years in his church...or Markl david Chapman: he claims the "devil made (him) do it". Surely, if an unseen hand is pulling the trigger of a righteous person, can they be ultimately persecuted for the behaviour?

BTW, are you catholic/protestant/episcopalian/what the hey?

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Just saying it is not enough. You have to mean it, feel it, believe it. Then you will exemplify it. Good works will follow. That doesn't mean you're infallible, of course.

Good works are, of themselves, not the "ticket to Heaven" as Catholics preach.

:gulp:

But you don't really have to do anything...

Warham
08-08-2005, 05:15 PM
I was raised Catholic, AP, but I longer consider myself one, as I've pulled away from many of their man-made doctrines.

It's possible for somebody to be an active member in a church and still not be saved. The only one who really knows if somebody is saved is God. It's also possible for a saved person to kill somebody. Once saved, you are not infallible, but you have the ability to stop sinning.

If you look at the main characters in the Bible, save Jesus Christ, they all pretty much have two things in common. They all have sinned a wide range of sins, and they all had faith in God's plan. Take for example Moses. He killed an Egyptian taskmaster before wandering out in the desert for 40 years and found God. God gave Moses the task of freeing his people in Egypt. Or another example would be David, who had one of the men in his army, Uriah, killed so that he could cover up an affair he had with Bathsheba, since she was pregnant with his child. David would repent of this evil deed, and God still found David to be a man 'after my own heart'. It gives hope to those Christians who sin and worry about their soul's destination.

The Bible's impartiality in regard to revealing it's main characters' actions and motives is one of the reasons I consider it inspired by God.

kentuckyklira
08-08-2005, 05:35 PM
Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Actually Lounge, it is pretty much the same thing...

Of course BigBadBlunder must have missed the little bus today.... I actually think BigBlubberButt was taking a shot at irony there. It´s well known world wide that Americans are exceptionally bad at it!

kentuckyklira
08-08-2005, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Warham
No, God only gives a reward for good deeds to those who have taken his Son, Jesus Christ, as their savior. That doesn't fit in with the definition of karma, since there is a stipulation involved. Jesus was just the illegitimate son of a slut called Mary who probably banged some Roman legionary on an evening out drinking with her girlfriends and invented a good story to explain her pregnancy to her gullible fiancé!

Warham
08-08-2005, 05:43 PM
Whatever you want to believe, my friend.

kentuckyklira
08-08-2005, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Whatever you want to believe, my friend. Christians are exceptionally bad at maths and can´t grasp the concept of being "almighty"!

Look up "almighty" in a dictionary guys!

blueturk
08-08-2005, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Jesus was just the illegitimate son of a slut called Mary who probably banged some Roman legionary on an evening out drinking with her girlfriends and invented a good story to explain her pregnancy to her gullible fiancé!

So are the people in here who believe in Christ supposed to get pissed off now or something?:rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
So are the people in here who believe in Christ supposed to get pissed off now or something?:rolleyes:

Exactly...
http://www.obsidianempire.com/albums/album01/attention_whore4.thumb.jpg

BigBadBrian
08-08-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
So are the people in here who believe in Christ supposed to get pissed off now or something?:rolleyes:

Exactly. I feel pity toward people when they say stupid things like that, not anger. Kentucky, as much rage and scorn as you bring up against Christianity, I think you have some real mixed up feelings deep down in your soul. You need to seek some serious help my friend. :)

:gulp:

academic punk
08-08-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I was raised Catholic, AP, but I longer consider myself one, as I've pulled away from many of their man-made doctrines.

It's possible for somebody to be an active member in a church and still not be saved. The only one who really knows if somebody is saved is God. It's also possible for a saved person to kill somebody. Once saved, you are not infallible, but you have the ability to stop sinning.

If you look at the main characters in the Bible, save Jesus Christ, they all pretty much have two things in common. They all have sinned a wide range of sins, and they all had faith in God's plan. Take for example Moses. He killed an Egyptian taskmaster before wandering out in the desert for 40 years and found God. God gave Moses the task of freeing his people in Egypt. Or another example would be David, who had one of the men in his army, Uriah, killed so that he could cover up an affair he had with Bathsheba, since she was pregnant with his child. David would repent of this evil deed, and God still found David to be a man 'after my own heart'. It gives hope to those Christians who sin and worry about their soul's destination.

The Bible's impartiality in regard to revealing it's main characters' actions and motives is one of the reasons I consider it inspired by God.

Great insights, solid post. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

But I'm still confused: what church do you attend now that you no longer consider yourself a Catholic? And what were some of the doctrines that you found disagreement with?

I actually - as much as I disagreed with the stance - admired JOhn Paul for his hard line stance on contraception, abortion, etc.

It's complex, because the world is a living, breathing place (poorly phrasd - let's just leave it at we as people evolve, and as technology and science make it easier to have a wider array of choices, is it appropriate for the church to change it ages old tenants...
shit...phone calk...

Warham
08-08-2005, 09:37 PM
Your welcome, AP. When people don't attack in here, I can speak of my faith and beliefs more eloquently. I found doctrines like praying to the saints and to Mary to be out of whack with Bible teachings. Praying for the dead. There are others.

I currently do not attend church, for a couple reasons. One, I haven't found one, and two, my daughter is two and won't sit still for more than five minutes. ;) She was baptized a Catholic though, by a bishop, no less, so I guess you could call me a wayward Catholic.

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Your welcome, AP. When people don't attack in here, I can speak of my faith and beliefs more eloquently. I found doctrines like praying to the saints and to Mary to be out of whack with Bible teachings. Praying for the dead. There are others.

I currently do not attend church, for a couple reasons. One, I haven't found one, and two, my daughter is two and won't sit still for more than five minutes. ;) She was baptized a Catholic though, by a bishop, no less, so I guess you could call me a wayward Catholic.

Join the club...

academic punk
08-08-2005, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Join the club...

Nick?? You're Warham's two year old daughter???

academic punk
08-08-2005, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Your welcome, AP. When people don't attack in here, I can speak of my faith and beliefs more eloquently. I found doctrines like praying to the saints and to Mary to be out of whack with Bible teachings. Praying for the dead. There are others.

I currently do not attend church, for a couple reasons. One, I haven't found one, and two, my daughter is two and won't sit still for more than five minutes. ;) She was baptized a Catholic though, by a bishop, no less, so I guess you could call me a wayward Catholic.

So what are you currently doing in the practice of your faith? Prayer, and just read and study your Bible? Do you have a group of friends or other people in your community who you "congregate" with at all?

Doing it in private, to me, seems the most direct and best communication you can have. Jesus even said so Himself, right?

Having a spiritual leader can be of tremendous benefit, and there is a place for it - a huge place, especially early on in the journey - but it shouldn't be the most dominant thing.

Sounds like you're on the appropriate course for ya. Good to hear.

Warham
08-08-2005, 10:17 PM
I don't do as much studyng as I should. I used to do it alot more a few years ago. I was on fire back then, at least in my mind.

Studying and praying in private are very good methods for meditation on the Word.

I'm not on the right course. I never feel I'm on the right course. I'm very hard on myself. Always have been. But I have faith.

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
So what are you currently doing in the practice of your faith? Prayer, and just read and study your Bible? Do you have a group of friends or other people in your community who you "congregate" with at all?

...

That would be the original incarnation of CHRISTIANITY before it was "ROMANIZED."

blueturk
08-09-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
The above story is getting waaaay too much press attention for it not have been set up and arranged. It's a not at all uncommon situation, yet she knew EXACTLY where to set up camp so as not to get arrested, she's got the perfect quotes for the soundbytes, and plus she's all over the media.

Kind of like Rosa Parks, this all sounds prearranged, and is going exactly according to plan.

What does surprise me is how low support for the war is now in these latest polls: only THIRTY-FOUR PERCENt approval rating for the war???

Insane...



Dubya's spokesman said Bush has no intention of meeting with Cindy Sheehan. If Dubya has a logical reason for the war, he should be able to explain it to one fucking person. Perhaps the fact that Cindy Sheehan is not a carefully pre-screened supporter scares the hell out of him.

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Exactly. I feel pity toward people when they say stupid things like that, not anger. Kentucky, as much rage and scorn as you bring up against Christianity, I think you have some real mixed up feelings deep down in your soul. You need to seek some serious help my friend. :)

:gulp: I take the liberty to ridicule stupid myths. Christianity is just one of them. If people who worship nothing but common sense need serious help, the Phil´s probably right in saying "it´s later than you think"!

BigBadBrian
08-09-2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
I take the liberty to ridicule stupid myths. Christianity is just one of them. If people who worship nothing but common sense need serious help, the Phil´s probably right in saying "it´s later than you think"!

Indeed. It's later than YOU think. :cool:

:gulp: