KISS: Ultimate albums on VH1....or some shit.

[rustoffa]

I'm sitting here watching it, and I really don't have the answers.

They're throwing around "stabbing hippie rock in the head" references, followed up with "Borrowing from the British glam and New York glitter movements" references.

It's cuntfusing.

Personally, I think Gene Simmons had an over-the-top Grand Funk idea in his head, along with gold bricks....that's far from an answer.

I'm not hatin'.....the live shows were flabbergastering @ the time (before they broke), and "Rock And Roll Over" vindicated whatever years later IMO.

Discuss, and feel free to bash the living fuck out of Gene Simmons.
:)

[Rikk]

I think GENE SIMMONS is a fucking asshole. And I'm tired of him destroying the street legacy the band had. Their 70s records sound so dangerous, and they made some good records after then too.

Frankly, there are few hard rock records that have the balls of DRESSED TO KILL, HOTTER THAN HELL or ROCK 'N' ROLL OVER. Those are classic albums. Too bad Simmons re-writes history all the time to suit his latest marketing campaign.

[Redballjets88]

personally i dont see why kiss got so popular i have their greatest hits and i have listened to it a handful of times and i only like about 4 songs on it

[ThrillsNSpills]

I saw this show and I liked the music on the burger king commercial better honestly.
It was bizarre seeing Gene do his fire trick and suddenly it looked like his face was on fire.

[Mr Badguy]

Yes, Simmons is an asshole.

He`d tell you that himself.

However, if you had a cash cow like he had, you`d also milk it dry.

If Kiss fans are stupid enough to buy everything related to Kiss then fuck them.

PS KISS ROOLS!

[blueturk]

Originally posted by rustoffa
I'm sitting here watching it, and I really don't have the answers.

They're throwing around "stabbing hippie rock in the head" references, followed up with "Borrowing from the British glam and New York glitter movements" references.

It's cuntfusing.

Personally, I think Gene Simmons had an over-the-top Grand Funk idea in his head, along with gold bricks....that's far from an answer.

I'm not hatin'.....the live shows were flabbergastering @ the time (before they broke), and "Rock And Roll Over" vindicated whatever years later IMO.

Discuss, and feel free to bash the living fuck out of Gene Simmons.
:)

I think you were watching "When Kiss Ruled The World". I'm waiting for "When Van Halen Ruled The World".

[Terry]

Simmons' own sense of importance is so overblown that it's comical. But it's also matched by Paul Stanley's general blandness; this guy offers one cliched explanation after another for just about any question asked of him.

The VH1 Ultimate Albums thing on Kiss Alive was interesting, mostly for seeing Eddie Kramer talk about how the album was made. Had thought the crowd reactions were authentic, even if they were turned up in the mix. Now we come to find that audience responses were cut and pasted into various parts of the album in addition to being brought up in the mix. Had been aware for a while that Kiss Alive 2 was subjected to an extensive amount of post-production and overdubbing, but was always in denial when it came to Alive. Now we find out the same thing went on there, too. All of which is fine. Doesn't diminish my enjoyment of the record, but seeing Simmons, Stanley and Kramer admit to this and THEN go on to say that it is still a true representation of what the band sounded like live...not so much. Can't have it both ways.

Far as Kiss's 'street cred' goes, they may have had some pre-Destroyer. Once the band kicked into merchandising overdrive around the point of Love Gun, it was a little lopsided because the band became too focused on grabbing for dollars. Still enjoy their stuff up until about Dynasty, but the rough edge the group had in the early days was willingly replaced by a cartoonish image as the Seventies wound down.

Gene...pretty much whatever. Guy makes a lot of money. Good for him. Same goes for the 10,000 women he fucked. KISS is all done, anyway. Have no qualms with them reuniting in 1996. They gave their fans what they wanted, and made a pile of loot in the process. But the band by that point was good for little else OTHER than a nostalgia trip, and that has been going on now for close to a decade. They can't write any new, worthwhile material. Simmons' solo album Asshole flat out stunk, and it's obvious the title was an attempt to get some publicity. I dunno...once Ace and Peter decided not to continue with the endless farewell tour, Gene and Paul should have packed it in. Seems apparent they're not gonna as long as there's a nickel to be made bilking their past. By 1999, the reunited KISS already overstayed their welcome.

[light 'em up!]

Originally posted by Terry
Simmons' own sense of importance is so overblown that it's comical.

You nailed it.

Personally I don't take rock stars seriously. When they exalt themselves to god-like status like Gene Simmons frequesntly does, it makes me chuckle. I used to love Kiss when I was 13, and I still have fond memories, but let's put things in perspective; Gene Simmons made his fortune running around in clownface, dangling his tongue at people, and playing very simple musical progressions. One day he's going to die just like the rest of us.

[Terry]

Ah, yes. Death. The ultimate equalizer.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Kiss 73-79was great.........I also dig the 81-83 era.........I've made my feelings on Gene known many, many, times here.

[Unchainme]

I Like KISS, There not my Favorite band but at least they listen to their fans. at least they reunited with there orignal line up unlike the VH Bros.

[Unchainme]

Ace is my Favorite Member in the band, I just can really feel that he influenced CVH a lot while he was in the band. I bet Ed was a big fan of his.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
personally i dont see why kiss got so popular i have their greatest hits and i have listened to it a handful of times and i only like about 4 songs on it

Because you're only LISTENING to it bro....

KISS' claim to fame was, is, and will always be their live show, which to this day remains the best in the business...

You know what you're in for when you go see a KISS show, that being a LOUD show, great pyrotechnics and light show, and Gene's spittin' blood and fire.... Also, along with most major acts, they've really taken advantage of the improvments in the video capabilities....

What you DON'T (or shouldn't) expect to see at a KISS show (at least with the original crew) is anything resembling guitar wizardry nor Peart-like drum skills....

It's simply a very good rock show to see in concert.....

I took my 11 year old son to their show here last year, and he had a blast...

Matter of fact, their DVD of that tour is coming out in October, and they filmed here that night... One of the cameraman focused on my son for about 15 seconds, so I hope he gets on the DVD....

[Mr Badguy]

We`ve all heard the "Alive!" was overbudded story.

However, if you watch the video clips of those early shows on the Kiss video releases then you will notice that a lot of the live stuff doesn`t sound all that different from "Alive!", particulaly the black and white show from Winterland `75 and Cobo Hall `76.

So it`s overdubbed.

So what?

The album is really what it`s titled: "Alive!".

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by blueturk
I think you were watching "When Kiss Ruled The World". I'm waiting for "When Van Halen Ruled The World".

You're probably right. By the time I had finished my forty-o of absinthe, it had bled over into ultimate albums. I was sitting here for like 30 minutes to 2 hours going, "wasntdth thatb thang called roooled the worldd?"

Now that I'm back to beer (B2B), I clearly remember my disillusionment stemming from the "ruled the world" deal.

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by light 'em up!
Gene Simmons made his fortune running around in clownface, dangling his tongue at people, and playing very simple musical progressions. One day he's going to die just like the rest of us.


Gene says that KISS is like a car....two dudes in the front seat, and the two in the back come and go.

He'll go to his grave in a dime bag casket knowing that "Beth" and "New York Groove" were more commercially sucksessful than anything he ever spit up.

[monkeythe]

The 2 shows (WKRTW & Ultimate) were on back to back the other night. I really enjoyed the Tom Snyder interview when Ace was drunk & Gene was looking all pissed off at him.
I stopped paying attention to Kiss after the Dynsaty. As a follow up to Alive 2, I can't decide if that was a worse dropoff in quality or VH following up 1984 with 5150.

[bigc]

I really like Creatures of the Night,just a shame they put Ace's face on the cover when he didnt play a note on the record, Vinnie Vincent was quality.

after that..yea...it went down...those mid 80s albums(animalize,asylum,crazy nights,hot in the shade) were very weak, i mean, the song, uh! all night, sounded very sammy:(

[Terry]

Gene and Paul just really don't appreciate Ace and Peter when it comes right down to it.

Lummy's got it right. After the late 1970s, KISS put out little of interest. Creatures had its moments, and there was some stuff on Revenge that didn't totally suck. Ask ol' Gene what he and Paul would have been up to today had they not gotten back together with Frehley and Criss and donned the makeup.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Gene and Paul couldnt get arrested in the early to mid 90's. As Terry said, if it wasnt for "the 2 fuck ups", Gene and Paul would be playing half filled theaters right now.........if that. Gene hasnt written a good song since the early 80's........and even then it was mostly Vinnie's doing. He's also hardly played bass on record since 77'.........funny, he always blasts Ace for missing the Alive 2 sessions, and for sending his stuff by mail for The Elder sessions, yet look at him.

[Christ67]

Just like I tell people about Dave.... Read The Book KISS And Sell by C.K. Lendt he was their tour account manager read why Kiss became marketing whores and how they lost it all. By the Dynasty Tour they were bankrupt. Peter and Ace got out with at least part of their money Gene And Paul are still whoreing it out. Love this quote from an interview at KISS Asylum C.K. Lendt:
"At one point Gene brought Edward and Alex up to our office to talk about managing them. They loved the clothes that Van Halen was wearing on stage which I described in my book. They did hire the woman who was the costumer for Van Halen about that time, so yes they were influenced because Van Halen-top of the charts, millions of records, selling out coast to coast, same with Bon Jovi, KISS was really at the later part of their career at that time and there's no question that they were looking for ways to get back on top and sometimes the way people do that right or wrong is they copy what's successful or they copy parts of what is successful and try and adapt it to what they do."

[bigc]

Originally posted by Terry
Gene and Paul just really don't appreciate Ace and Peter when it comes right down to it.

Lummy's got it right. After the late 1970s, KISS put out little of interest. Creatures had its moments, and there was some stuff on Revenge that didn't totally suck.

the stuff on Revenge that didnt suck was written by Vinnie, if I remember rightly?

[VonHalen]

yes, it was written by vinne--- Domino, Unholy

[blueturk]

Originally posted by Christ67
Just like I tell people about Dave.... Read The Book KISS And Sell by C.K. Lendt he was their tour account manager read why Kiss became marketing whores and how they lost it all. By the Dynasty Tour they were bankrupt. Peter and Ace got out with at least part of their money Gene And Paul are still whoreing it out. Love this quote from an interview at KISS Asylum C.K. Lendt:
"At one point Gene brought Edward and Alex up to our office to talk about managing them. They loved the clothes that Van Halen was wearing on stage which I described in my book. They did hire the woman who was the costumer for Van Halen about that time, so yes they were influenced because Van Halen-top of the charts, millions of records, selling out coast to coast, same with Bon Jovi, KISS was really at the later part of their career at that time and there's no question that they were looking for ways to get back on top and sometimes the way people do that right or wrong is they copy what's successful or they copy parts of what is successful and try and adapt it to what they do."

"KISS And Sell" is indeed a great read. C.K. Lendt tells his story from the perspective of someone who really didn't care who KISS was, he was just trying to do his job.

[Bill Lumbergh]

Originally posted by bigc
the stuff on Revenge that didnt suck was written by Vinnie, if I remember rightly?

Yep.

[Terry]

When I see Gene on tv now, wearing the makeup, sitting there with a bored expresion on his chubby face, telling us for the umpteenth million time about how much money he has and how many women he's fucked...just yawn inducing.

KISS has got nothing left to offer but more of the same ol' nostalgia trip, and it's getting tired.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Because you're only LISTENING to it bro....

KISS' claim to fame was, is, and will always be their live show, which to this day remains the best in the business...

You know what you're in for when you go see a KISS show, that being a LOUD show, great pyrotechnics and light show, and Gene's spittin' blood and fire.... Also, along with most major acts, they've really taken advantage of the improvments in the video capabilities....

What you DON'T (or shouldn't) expect to see at a KISS show (at least with the original crew) is anything resembling guitar wizardry nor Peart-like drum skills....

It's simply a very good rock show to see in concert.....

I took my 11 year old son to their show here last year, and he had a blast...

Matter of fact, their DVD of that tour is coming out in October, and they filmed here that night... One of the cameraman focused on my son for about 15 seconds, so I hope he gets on the DVD....

With all due respect Va, why did you subject your son to the FAKE KISS??

I'm sure your 11 year old knows the difference between Ace Frehely and Tommy Thayer, despite Tommy wearing the makeup.

I'm a big KISS fan, and am disgusted by what they've been doing as far as trying to portray Tommy and Eric Singer as Ace and Peter.

The show may still be OK, however, there is only ONE KISS.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
Yep.

Yeah.

Aside from looking like a transvestite, Vinnie Vincent was a very talented guitarist and songwriter.

His addition to the songwriting made Creatures such a great album and Lick it Up a suitable follow-up.

His contribution to Revenge made for its best songs.

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
Gene and Paul couldnt get arrested in the early to mid 90's. As Terry said, if it wasnt for "the 2 fuck ups", Gene and Paul would be playing half filled theaters right now.........if that. Gene hasnt written a good song since the early 80's........and even then it was mostly Vinnie's doing. He's also hardly played bass on record since 77'.........funny, he always blasts Ace for missing the Alive 2 sessions, and for sending his stuff by mail for The Elder sessions, yet look at him.

A funny story about the Alive II sessions:

Ace of course didn't play on any of the tracks except his own "Rocket Ride" (which IMO is the best off Alive II).

Apparently, Ace thought the riff was too hard for Paul and Gene to play. So he recorded it himself with Peter on drums, Ace playing all guitars and bass, in addition with background vocals by Sean Delaney who co-wrote the song with Ace.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
His addition to the songwriting made Creatures such a great album and Lick it Up a suitable follow-up.

KISS FACT:

"Lick it up" is the ONLY Kiss album where all the songs are written by members of the band.

And Vinnie co-wrote eight out of ten.

Kick Thayer out and get Vinnie back.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Vinnie Velvet
With all due respect Va, why did you subject your son to the FAKE KISS??

I'm sure your 11 year old knows the difference between Ace Frehely and Tommy Thayer, despite Tommy wearing the makeup.

I'm a big KISS fan, and am disgusted by what they've been doing as far as trying to portray Tommy and Eric Singer as Ace and Peter.

The show may still be OK, however, there is only ONE KISS.

I hear ya VV....

Yeah, I told him that the "Ace" and "Peter" weren't the same guys, but he didn't seem to mind that much....

It was his 1st concert, and he soaked in the whole experience... He loved all of the explosions and fire pots....

[Vinnie Velvet]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
I hear ya VV....

Yeah, I told him that the "Ace" and "Peter" weren't the same guys, but he didn't seem to mind that much....

It was his 1st concert, and he soaked in the whole experience... He loved all of the explosions and fire pots....

That's cool, Va.

My nephew (whose 8) is big into KISS now and I guess if FAKE KISS came to town, he'd still want to go.

But its just not the same, especially without Ace. I can stomach Eric being in place of Peter if Ace was still there.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Well, it's not the same to US...

But trust me, if and when the time comes that you take your nephew to a KISS show, just watch him during the show...

My friend and I just stood back and watched my son all night, and it was like I was watching him hit a grand slam...

I mean, it took no prodding at all from me...

I really hope he (we) makes it into that DVD... We hoisted him onto the armrests between the seats, so he was up about 7 feet high, right next to the platform that Paul came out to in the middle of the crowd, during "I was Made for Loving You"... The cameraman focused on him for quite a while when he was pumping his fist.... Just too bad that Paul didn't look down when he was facing our way, I'm sure he would have acknowledged him....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
I took my 11 year old son to their show here last year, and he had a blast...

Matter of fact, their DVD of that tour is coming out in October, and they filmed here that night... One of the cameraman focused on my son for about 15 seconds, so I hope he gets on the DVD....

Holy shit, we're movie stars....

My son, my buddy and I are on the DVD for about 3 or 4 seconds...

When Paul comes flying out to his platform at the beginning of "I Was Made For Loving You", he shouts out "Make Some Noise !!"...

Immediately after that, my son is right in front of the camera, hoisted up by me on the left, my buddy is to the right....

Cool beans....

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Actually, we're on there 3 times during the song....

It's a pretty decent DVD, lots of backstage stuff, meet/greets, etc....

[DavidLeeBroth]

I'm a huge Kiss fan but I feel they should have hung it up after the farewell tour. I understand the criticism the band's (and especially Gene) been getting.

However it bothers me no end that Kiss is constantly being criticized for things most other bands their age do as well.

One being the constant repackaging of the old material on live and best of albums. Has anyone counted the number of compilation albums released by Deep Purple, Motley Crue, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden etc. etc. It's really no different.

Another common criticism is regarding the lack of original members. What about Queen, The Who, Beach Boys, Purple, Sabbath, Dio. All of these bands have toured extensively and released albums with different line-ups. At least Gene and Peter have an excuse. The other two fuck ups can't play anymore.

I'm not saying the criticism isn't valid. It is. However Kiss is being judged a bit unfairly in these matters compared to other bands.

However... had they quit after the farewell tour they could have left as one of the biggest names in rock after an amazing comeback. Now they're only dragging their once great name through the mud. Too bad really.

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by DavidLeeBroth
I'm a huge Kiss fan but I feel they should have hung it up after the farewell tour. I understand the criticism the band's (and especially Gene) been getting.

However it bothers me no end that Kiss is constantly being criticized for things most other bands their age do as well.

One being the constant repackaging of the old material on live and best of albums. Has anyone counted the number of compilation albums released by Deep Purple, Motley Crue, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden etc. etc. It's really no different.

On this, I agree...MANY bands are FAR worse of reissues and compilations than Kiss is...

Another common criticism is regarding the lack of original members. What about Queen, The Who, Beach Boys, Purple, Sabbath, Dio. All of these bands have toured extensively and released albums with different line-ups. At least Gene and Peter have an excuse. The other two fuck ups can't play anymore.

On this, well...Dio is in "Ronnie James Dio", meaning it's HIS band and he's entitled to have a bazillion lineup changes and still call it Dio...same for Danzig, etc etc, any band which has a last name as it's title (excluding from this, of course, Van Halen as David was the frontman and SOUL of the group and was very much beyond replacing and keeping the band name the same). In so far as Sabbath was concerned, Tony should have been a solo act after 1984, but WB wouldn't hear of it, so...but arguably at that point, Tony Iommi's guitar WAS Black Sabbath - at least there's a shitload of us out here who feel that way...

I'm not saying the criticism isn't valid. It is. However Kiss is being judged a bit unfairly in these matters compared to other bands.

Agreed, there are a lot of bands out there today guilty of exactly the same things.

However... had they quit after the farewell tour they could have left as one of the biggest names in rock after an amazing comeback. Now they're only dragging their once great name through the mud. Too bad really.

With this, I'm 1000% in agreement with you.

[Terry]

KISS could really only lay claim to ruling the world from about 1975 to 1978 in terms of publicity, and even then Led Zep was outselling them.

I mean, KISS were a huge band in the mid to late 1970s, but they were far from the ONLY band out there. Wouldn't know it to hear Gene tell it, though.

Their 1970s output still gets my rocks off, as does Creatures. That's the bottom line for me. KInda like Van Halen in many ways: no amount of buffoonery released under the bands name after the classic members started drifting away or overblown egotism will diminish my enjoyment of the classic stuff. That music transcends all of that. But I have no interest in what either band is doing today.