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steve
08-06-2005, 11:47 AM
With proposals to teach Religion in Science class being propelled & christened from the docks of the White House, how about a counter proposal:

Let's teach Science in Church.

Every time a preacher recites a story of a miracle that defies the laws of gravity (Jesus walking on water, etc.), should he or she not ALSO state the opposing point of view...that of: "On the other hand, most scientists believe this did not in fact happen, etc..."?

BigBadBrian
08-06-2005, 12:12 PM
.

Nickdfresh
08-06-2005, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
.

Yup, you're typical argument.:)

Seshmeister
08-08-2005, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by steve
With proposals to teach Religion in Science class being propelled & christened from the docks of the White House, how about a counter proposal:

Let's teach Science in Church.

Every time a preacher recites a story of a miracle that defies the laws of gravity (Jesus walking on water, etc.), should he or she not ALSO state the opposing point of view...that of: "On the other hand, most scientists believe this did not in fact happen, etc..."?

Great post!:)

thome
08-08-2005, 10:34 AM
Anyone want this Bet , prove Evolution to me.

Its as equally impossible as ANY religion.

Science is the Study of life not the answer to it.

Oh and by the way WHO CARES

Jesus Christ
08-08-2005, 11:06 AM
Many of your greatest scientists have had a deep faith in Me. :)

thome
08-08-2005, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Many of your greatest scientists have had a deep faith in Me. :)

Jesus you show a inner peace i wish to learn about.

Are there any books i can read about your ways of life?

gota go see ya when i see ya

Jesus Christ
08-08-2005, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by thome
Jesus you show a inner peace i wish to learn about.

Are there any books i can read about your ways of life?

gota go see ya when i see ya

Umm... I assume ye hath heard of "The Bible"?

Stephen Hawking
08-08-2005, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Many of your greatest scientists have had a deep faith in Me. :)

It is a bit more complicated than that, my pacifist friend.

Jesus Christ
08-08-2005, 11:31 AM
See, this is exactly what I meaneth.

Scientists like My friend Stephen can tell you about how boson particles work, but verily they cannot tell you who made the boson particles.

And that's where Dad & I come in :cool:

There is nothing wrong with physics. Take that from the Great Physician :)

Seshmeister
08-08-2005, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Jesus Christ
See, this is exactly what I meaneth.

Scientists like My friend Stephen can tell you about how boson particles work, but verily they cannot tell you who made the boson particles.

And that's where Dad & I come in :cool:


Ok but that's not where these fucking idiot creationists come in.

Seshmeister
08-08-2005, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by thome
Anyone want this Bet , prove Evolution to me.

Its as equally impossible as ANY religion.

Science is the Study of life not the answer to it.

Oh and by the way WHO CARES

Evolution can and has been proved.

As you say religion cannot because it relies on the supernatural which by it's nature means you just make shit up.

Prove that invisible fairies don't live at the bottom of everyones yard?

Same thing.

There is absolutely no evidence that little fairies live there.

It's when inevitably someone says I have faith in the fairies and I'm going to persecute you for not believing in them that the problems start...

BigBadBrian
08-08-2005, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Evolution can and has been proved.



Has not.

:gulp:

Seshmeister
08-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Has.

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Ok but that's not where these fucking idiot creationists come in.

True dat. I believe in God (shock to some), but I think Creationism/Intelligent design is nothing but horseshit!

Warham
08-08-2005, 10:46 PM
If you believe in God, then you must believe that he created the universe, correct?

Or do you believe in a passive God, where he just started the big bang, then let the universe form on it's own?

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by Warham
If you believe in God, then you must believe that he created the universe, correct?

Or do you believe in a passive God, where he just started the big bang, then let the universe form on it's own?

Nobody ever said HOW he created the universe, nor what mechanisms he/she/it used to advance life...

In any case, I'm a bit of a pantheist more than anything else.

Warham
08-08-2005, 11:02 PM
You believe in all gods?

Here's what I believe. God, at some time in eternity past, spoke about the creation of matter, in the form of the Big Bang. Then time went by, billions of years, as all this matter coalesced into stars and planets, under his guidance, specifically our planet. Then he tinkered around with the elements on this planet, creating amino acids, forming primitive life, then using natural selection formed aquatic life and birds, then land animals, including primates. But then the finishing touch was creating humanity in his image, infusing the body of the homo sapien with a soul he created. Thus Adam, or man, was born. Once he was done with his piece de resistance, he was done creating, and took his rest.

FORD
08-08-2005, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Warham
If you believe in God, then you must believe that he created the universe, correct?

Or do you believe in a passive God, where he just started the big bang, then let the universe form on it's own?

I believe that God created the universe and everything that naturally occurs in it.

The exact means and timetable that it took Him to do so are irrelevant. If there was a literal Garden of Eden, and the fact that it has a specific location suggests that there was, then I would think God put the basic life forms there. In other words, you didn't have poodles and dobermans and great danes, but you had a couple of dogs. Most likely wolves or coyotes. Everything else has been variations within the species over the years. And that is the extent to which I believe in evolution - on the "micro" scale. I haven't seen anything remotely resembling convincing evidence that we evolved from monkeys (no Bush doesn't count) or that it's all been one long march from the primordial ooze.

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You believe in all gods?

Dated version. Actually I believe in a sort of "oversoul" as depicted by EMERSON and THOREAU, you know, the inspiration for Lucas' "The FORCE."

Warham
08-08-2005, 11:18 PM
Ah, you believe in a sort of impersonal deity? That's basically what the Force is.

Redballjets88
08-08-2005, 11:20 PM
Evolution can and has been proved

you sir are a moron....if evolution was proven fact it wouldnt be "the THEORY of evolution" it would be the LAW of evolution

Seshmeister
08-08-2005, 11:31 PM
Hahaha!

Ok genius boy explain how Noah got every animal that's ever existed into a boat including every insect and every dinosaur.

Then tell us how all the plants in the world survived under 27000 feet of water.

Then tell us where the water came from and where it went.

And for a little encore tell us why the fossils of all advanced organisms like dolphins, whales and flowering plants appear in the upper strata of rock.

Once you've done that we'll move onto the 100000 other reasons why literal belief in the bible is ludicrous.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
08-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Ah, you believe in a sort of impersonal deity? That's basically what the Force is.

Exactly exactly!

http://www.emersoncentral.com/oversoul.htm

Redballjets88
08-08-2005, 11:38 PM
i didnt say that animals adadpting is untrue and they have proof that there was a great flood on earth at one time. and there is a lot the bible doesnt talk about for all i know God may have used evolution.

Ally_Kat
08-09-2005, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by Warham
You believe in all gods?

Here's what I believe. God, at some time in eternity past, spoke about the creation of matter, in the form of the Big Bang. Then time went by, billions of years, as all this matter coalesced into stars and planets, under his guidance, specifically our planet. Then he tinkered around with the elements on this planet, creating amino acids, forming primitive life, then using natural selection formed aquatic life and birds, then land animals, including primates. But then the finishing touch was creating humanity in his image, infusing the body of the homo sapien with a soul he created. Thus Adam, or man, was born. Once he was done with his piece de resistance, he was done creating, and took his rest.

That's very similar to my idea of what might have happened.

I still don't understand why it's a big deal to teach a scientific theory in a science class. And I still don't understand why a class hitting base on popular and random religions (a world religions class) won't help benefit kids to help understand and promote this tolerance I keep hearing that we need to install.

Redballjets88
08-09-2005, 01:00 AM
i believe that too but i think that God was so massivly awesome that he made what would take billions of years happen in 7 days time byt our scientists cant comprehend how it could work that way but it just did

steve
08-09-2005, 09:28 AM
Part of the problem with folks' concept of "intelligent" design is they tend to anthropomorphise the idea.

We apply all these human characteristics like self-awareness to the scientific debate of:
"order and harmony VS. random events"...which is really as far as the field of what is actually Science can delve into.

To apply human characteristics (aka: "intelligent" design) to the idea of order in the Universe (which is argued against by Hawking and top physicists anyway) is a large and unwarented leap into guesswork...aka faith...aka: Religion.

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
. What has your lunch got to do with this topic?

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by thome
Anyone want this Bet , prove Evolution to me.

Its as equally impossible as ANY religion.

Science is the Study of life not the answer to it.

Oh and by the way WHO CARES Compare a wolf to a poodle, there´s your proof!

Simple enough??

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
i believe that too but i think that God was so massivly awesome that he made what would take billions of years happen in 7 days time byt our scientists cant comprehend how it could work that way but it just did I believe you are a loser without a life. Your only relief is believing you´re part of a special species and a special country favoured by some kind of god!

And that´s exactly what religion is generally used for!

thome
08-09-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Evolution can and has been proved.

As you say religion cannot because it relies on the supernatural which by it's nature means you just make shit up.

Prove that invisible fairies don't live at the bottom of everyones yard?

Same thing.

There is absolutely no evidence that little fairies live there.

It's when inevitably someone says I have faith in the fairies and I'm going to persecute you for not believing in them that the problems start...

You are blind deaf and wrong YOU believe in it so it makes it REAL
to you./ wake up all is for not in the mind of closed theory.

thome
08-09-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Compare a wolf to a poodle, there´s your proof!

Simple enough??

If evolution is real dork why does a basset hounds dick drag in the dirt
and smack into rocks and snag on sharp sticks dont you think he would
have longer legs or evolved to having his dick on his back!

Wake up the things other people teach you are other peoples things.

Stephen Hawking
08-09-2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Ally_Kat
That's very similar to my idea of what might have happened.

I still don't understand why it's a big deal to teach a scientific theory in a science class. And I still don't understand why a class hitting base on popular and random religions (a world religions class) won't help benefit kids to help understand and promote this tolerance I keep hearing that we need to install.

If I understand you correctly, what you suggest is not, by definition Scientific Theory. It is fine and well that you believe that interpretation, but Scientific Theory is a tough standard...to say the least.

It must always be clarified that Scientific Theory is DRASTICALLLY different from the layman's definition of "theory"; as in, "I have a theory".

thome
08-09-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Stephen Hawking
If I understand you correctly, what you suggest is not, by definition Scientific Theory. It is fine and well that you believe that interpretation, but Scientific Theory is a tough standard...to say the least.

It must always be clarified that Scientific Theory is DRASTICALLLY different from the layman's definition of "theory"; as in, "I have a theory".

Thanks for explaining nothing about nothing and in 50 years your
nothing will be disproven as wrong.

Redballjets88
08-09-2005, 11:48 AM
I believe you are a loser without a life. Your only relief is believing you´re part of a special species and a special country favoured by some kind of god!

hey douche bag fuck off this was a normal and good forum til you came in. and saying i believe the us is superioir? look at your german ancestory and the nazi's thats the extreme of thinking your race is the best eh? so fuck off and quit talking to me for no reason

Redballjets88
08-09-2005, 11:50 AM
Scientific Theory

the actuall term "scientific theory" isnt used the same as "theory of evolution" the term scientific theory is a way of thinking and going about solving problems. when it is used in the context of theory of evolution it is using the "laymans" term

thome
08-09-2005, 12:11 PM
Heres some silly sh@t for ya!

Maybe the flood is memmory of disaster?

Maybe all living things in the ark is memory of one strand of DNA.
Or tens of thousands

Maybe NOAH is memory of a unmanned space ship
traveling to a certain sized planet a certain distance from a certain STAR of a certain magnitude certain to be cundusive to the
perpetuation of this type of DNA s existance.

There are ten billion reasons to believe in whatever you want
your only problem is ultimate cetainty that you are smart enough
to answer the question of the existance of life.

Or to tell someone else what to believe

Evil exists thats all you or i can be certain of .

What good is is questionable probabitity at best.

Stephen Hawking
08-09-2005, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
the actuall term "scientific theory" isnt used the same as "theory of evolution" the term scientific theory is a way of thinking and going about solving problems. when it is used in the context of theory of evolution it is using the "laymans" term

Actually, no. The "Theory of Evolution" is the very definition of a Scientific Theory. Through Archeology, biological lab tests, field studies, and finally, long and careful scientific debate...Evolution became Theory.

Unfortunately, detective (Columbo) TV shows and entertainment cancers such as Law and Order routinely use the word "theory" to describe one's "hunch" or "guess" about something. This was the layman's term I was referring to.

Redballjets88
08-09-2005, 12:17 PM
go on thinkin that

thome
08-09-2005, 12:23 PM
Why the hubble space telescope is blurry

because the first thing they saw was the edge of a pitry dish
and a big eyeball looking down thru a microscope.in some
really huge kids science classroom.

That is equally as plausable as any design theory.

So lets have some beers an party like its 100000000082-65825 ahhhh
yes these were the days.

Stephen Hawking
08-09-2005, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
go on thinkin that

...I shall. What you were referring to was/is Scientific Method:

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

"The scientific method is the process by which scientists, collectively and over time, endeavor to construct an accurate (that is, reliable, consistent and non-arbitrary) representation of the world."

"A scientific theory or law represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been confirmed through repeated experimental tests. Theories in physics are often formulated in terms of a few concepts and equations, which are identified with "laws of nature," suggesting their universal applicability. Accepted scientific theories and laws become part of our understanding of the universe and the basis for exploring less well-understood areas of knowledge. Theories are not easily discarded; new discoveries are first assumed to fit into the existing theoretical framework. It is only when, after repeated experimental tests, the new phenomenon cannot be accommodated that scientists seriously question the theory and attempt to modify it. The validity that we attach to scientific theories as representing realities of the physical world is to be contrasted with the facile invalidation implied by the expression, "It's only a theory." For example, it is unlikely that a person will step off a tall building on the assumption that they will not fall, because "Gravity is only a theory." "

Redballjets88
08-09-2005, 12:29 PM
exactly and a hypothesis is an educated guess

Nickdfresh
08-09-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by thome
You are blind deaf and wrong YOU believe in it so it makes it REAL
to you./ wake up all is for not in the mind of closed theory.

No child left behind...He he, you make a very good argument for teaching Creationism...:D ;)

thome
08-09-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by Stephen Hawking
...I shall. What you were referring to was/is Scientific Method:

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

"The scientific method is the process by which scientists, collectively and over time, endeavor to construct an accurate (that is, reliable, consistent and non-arbitrary) representation of the world."

"A scientific theory or law represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been confirmed through repeated experimental tests. Theories in physics are often formulated in terms of a few concepts and equations, which are identified with "laws of nature," suggesting their universal applicability. Accepted scientific theories and laws become part of our understanding of the universe and the basis for exploring less well-understood areas of knowledge. Theories are not easily discarded; new discoveries are first assumed to fit into the existing theoretical framework. It is only when, after repeated experimental tests, the new phenomenon cannot be accommodated that scientists seriously question the theory and attempt to modify it. The validity that we attach to scientific theories as representing realities of the physical world is to be contrasted with the facile invalidation implied by the expression, "It's only a theory." For example, it is unlikely that a person will step off a tall building on the assumption that they will not fall, because "Gravity is only a theory." "
Why is everthing scietists confirm dissproven at a later date.
all we do is grow advance learning on the mistakes of the past
thats it ....correct the past today in hopes of a better future

Nickdfresh
08-09-2005, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
exactly and a hypothesis is an educated guess

And "Intelligent Design" is as bunch of pseudo-scientists getting together to falsely codify theology as a "science." A paper on intelligent design has never been accepted by real academia nor even really attempted, it's all just media relations bullshit for the uninformed, undereducated masses...Their questioning of scientific theory in itself just sophist semantics.

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
hey douche bag fuck off this was a normal and good forum til you came in. and saying i believe the us is superioir? look at your german ancestory and the nazi's thats the extreme of thinking your race is the best eh? so fuck off and quit talking to me for no reason Well sucker,

I´ve been around here longer than you. So, how do you know how "normal and good" this forum was before I came in??!!

:p

BigBadBrian
08-09-2005, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Well sucker,

I´ve been around here longer than you. So, how do you know how "normal and good" this forum was before I came in??!!

:p

You're not exactly the "Old Guard" of this forum, kentucky.

You speak for nobody but your silly own self.

Shut the fuck up.

:gulp:

kentuckyklira
08-09-2005, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You're not exactly the "Old Guard" of this forum, kentucky.

You speak for nobody but your silly own self.

Shut the fuck up.

:gulp: What´s so hard to understand about my post?

Seshmeister
08-09-2005, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by thome
If evolution is real dork why does a basset hounds dick drag in the dirt
and smack into rocks and snag on sharp sticks dont you think he would
have longer legs or evolved to having his dick on his back!

Wake up the things other people teach you are other peoples things.

That is a really stupid post.

The reason Basset hounds are shit is because of UNNATURAL selection.

Humans stepped in and bred dogs together to create certain characteristics.