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frets5150
08-07-2005, 02:24 AM
Slain Soldier's Mom Stages Protest Near Bush's Ranch
CRAWFORD, Texas (Aug. 6) - The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President George W. Bush's ranch on Saturday, demanding an accounting from the president of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.

Supported by more than 50 shouting demonstrators, Cindy Sheehan, 48, told reporters, "I want to ask George Bush: Why did my son die?"

Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, "Impeachment Tour."

Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.

Sheehan, from Vacaville, California, had been attending a Veterans for Peace Convention in Dallas. She vowed she would camp out as close as she could get to the president's ranch until Bush comes out and talks to her.

Local law enforcement officials were keeping Sheehan four to five miles away from the ranch's entrance.

"If they won't cooperate, we won't," Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Department, said of the marchers.

He said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.

Sheehan said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.

"I don't want him to use my son's name or my family name to justify any more killing," she said.

Sheehan said Bush administration officials "don't have a mission and they don't even ever plan on completing it." She said she fears that the United States plans to keep a U.S. military presence in Iraq indefinitely.

The White House responded to the protest, saying the president wants to bring the troops home.

"Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission," White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Saturday. "It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as soon as possible."

Sheehan's bus pulled up at a house run by peace activists a few hundred feet from the town's only stoplight. There, she met up with other demonstrators and then led a caravan of about 20 vehicles down a winding road toward Bush's ranch.

The group stopped along the way and sheriff's deputies advised them that if they wanted to go farther toward the ranch, they would have to walk in a ditch along the road.

The marchers walked about half a mile until the deputies stopped them, saying that they had violated their instructions by walking on the road itself instead of staying in the adjacent ditch.

Sheehan protested, saying she had not walked on the road. The deputies refused to let her go farther.

The protesters then began chanting, "W killed her son."


08-06-05 20:27 EDT



Very nice making the mother of a slain soldier walk in a ditch!!!

FUCKING CUNT!!!! :mad:

frets5150
08-07-2005, 02:39 AM
And whoever believes in this BULLSHIT WAR and are in the required age range CLICK THIS LINK!!! and stop the bullshit already.


https://secure.military.com/leads/Recruiting/RecruitingLeadForm1.jsp?ESRC=cbggl_join2.kw&GCID=S15121x002&KEYWORD=enlistment

FORD
08-07-2005, 02:46 AM
Cindy Sheehan called After Downing Street moments ago at 10 p.m. ET to report that the Secret Service is trying to intimidate her and members of Gold Star Families for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, and Veterans for Peace into leaving their protest near Bush's Crawford, Texas ranch.

This morning Cindy led dozens of protesters as close as they could get to the ranch; they were stopped by local police about five miles away. Cindy and others plan to stay there throughout Bush's five-week August vacation until he agrees to meet with her and other family members of soldiers killed in Iraq and answer their questions about the war.

Throughout the afternoon and evening, however, the Secret Service has been telling protesters that if they stay there they may be hit by Secret Service vehicles. Cindy says, "They've told us this at least ten times. There isn't much room between the side of the road and the fence, and they go zooming by far over the speed limit." Cindy reports the Secret Service already ran a mother and her six year-old off the road. She believes the Secret Service's actions are a clear attempt to coerce her and the other protesters into leaving. :mad:

Cindy and others are asking to meet with the Secret Service and local police to ensure the safety of everyone involved. In the meantime, she asks that anyone who can contact the media to alert them to the situation.

If you are able to do this, media contact information can be found here. Please politely let them know what's been happening with the Secret Service, and encourage them to continue covering Cindy's efforts to meet with President Bush.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/1208

This woman has more couarage than all the treasonous fucking criminals in the BCE combined!

FORD
08-07-2005, 02:54 AM
READ THIS BUSHEEP

SATURDAY NIGHT UPDATE FROM CINDY SHEEHAN

By Buddy Spell
Upbeat Defiance.com
LOUISIANA ACTIVIST NETWORK

August 6, 2005

Briefly, I just got off of the telephone with Cindy at 10:58 PM (CST).

She’s on the side of the road with six (6) other activists. They expect others to arrive from the VFP convention in Dallas to spend the night with them tonight.

Cindy says that the SS says the protesters will be killed if they stay the night. “We’re not letting them intimidate us. If we get killed out here, know that the Secret Service killed us.”

She asks that we all light candles in solidarity and looks forward to more company in the days ahead.

Folks, the time has come today!

Peace out.

An American citizen whose son died for PNAC is threatened with DEATH for merely wanting to talk to the bastard who murdered her son.

What the fuck has happenned to this country, and how much longer will you Busheep keep the blindfolds on?

Casey Sheehan's blood is on YOUR hands already. Him and nearly 2000 others. Plus 100,000 Iraqi civilians. Every last one of you who voted for these criminal lying motherfuckers. Will his mother's blood be on your hands by morning? :mad:

FORD
08-07-2005, 03:00 AM
http://politicalswitchboard.invisionzone.com/graphics/ditch.gif

frets5150
08-07-2005, 03:38 AM
HMM I wonder what the troops who are risking their lifes would think if they found out thier mothers were kept 5 miles away and were made to walk a ditch for this SCUMBAG they are protecting?

frets5150
08-07-2005, 03:43 AM
Any Takers yet?

https://secure.military.com/leads/Recruiting/RecruitingLeadForm1.jsp?ESRC=cbggl_join2.kw&GCID=S15121x002&KEYWORD=enlistment

Guitar Shark
08-08-2005, 11:13 AM
Who owns the land that this woman is using as a stage for her protest? Is she trespassing? I'm just wondering how this will end.

BigBadBrian
08-08-2005, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by frets5150
Any Takers yet?




That picture of the American Flag with the Swastika in it is revolting.

You are a pig.

:gulp:

academic punk
08-08-2005, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Who owns the land that this woman is using as a stage for her protest? Is she trespassing? I'm just wondering how this will end.

It's public land. They know exactly how far they can go without being arrested or being forced away.

This "news" already exists in the "CHIMP off to set record setting vacation" thread.

Considering how well organized it is, this is obviously not just one little woman bravely setting off on her own against the big bad neo-con machine, but someone who has funding, access, equipment, and preparation (for soundbytes, media releases, press updates etc)

Of course I mourn her loss. But, c'mon, she ain't Forrest Gump.

I think it'd be appropriate to let this discussion continue in the thread it had already started in.

frets5150
08-09-2005, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
That picture of the American Flag with the Swastika in it is revolting.

You are a pig.

:gulp:

I kinda like it FUCKNUTS!:p

BigBadBrian
08-09-2005, 09:59 AM
Originally posted by frets5150
I kinda like it FUCKNUTS!:p


I'm not surprised. You and the other liberals on this board also celebrate the deaths of our brave American troops also. I'm not surprised.

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
08-09-2005, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'm not surprised. You and the other liberals on this board also celebrate the deaths of our brave American troops also. I'm not surprised.

:gulp:

Idiots like you Neo Cuntservatives send them to die needlessly...

Guitar Shark
08-09-2005, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'm not surprised. You and the other liberals on this board also celebrate the deaths of our brave American troops also. I'm not surprised.

:gulp:

Who?

I have never seen a single person "celebrate the deaths" of American troops.

The only person I can think of who *might* have done that is that kentuckyidiot dude, but I can't recall seeing that.

academic punk
08-09-2005, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Who?

I have never seen a single person "celebrate the deaths" of American troops.

The only person I can think of who *might* have done that is that kentuckyidiot dude, but I can't recall seeing that.

Shhhhhh...Brian is very happy and secure in his li'l dogmatic world, and we should do nothin to upset the delicate balance therein.

But for the record, Brian, you're saying that is every bit as offensive as the swastika flag that you are (rightfully) complaining about.

Hardrock69
08-09-2005, 11:19 AM
http://www.meetwithcindy.org/

Nickdfresh
08-09-2005, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Who?

I have never seen a single person "celebrate the deaths" of American troops.

The only person I can think of who *might* have done that is that kentuckyidiot dude, but I can't recall seeing that.

And even Kentuckyidiot has a point (though I don't necessarily agree with his logic or mindless cheering of Iraqi terrorists either). He believes that more US lives will be saved in the long run if we get out of Iraq and stop sending tank divisions around the world to fight terrorism, which is a pretty fucking absurd notion (using tanks to fight terra-ists')...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/Nickdfresh/Rumsfeld.jpg

frets5150
08-09-2005, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Idiots like you Neo Cuntservatives send them to die needlessly...

Yep what he said :D

superdave
08-09-2005, 05:39 PM
I don't usually get involved in political threads, but frets5150's Bush/Hitler comparison is right to the point....

frets5150
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by superdave
I don't usually get involved in political threads, but frets5150's Bush/Hitler comparison is right to the point....

I CAN'T TAKE ALL THE CREDIT FORD DESERVES HIS PROPS TO.:p

Guitar Shark
08-09-2005, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by superdave
I don't usually get involved in political threads, but frets5150's Bush/Hitler comparison is right to the point....

I hate Bush, but I have to disagree with you there.

When we start hearing about American concentration camps, and the mass extermination of millions of American citizens, then we can talk.

blueturk
08-09-2005, 07:23 PM
What a fucking shock. Bush will not meet with someone who disagrees with him about his bullshit war. It would be great PR if he did, but he can't really go out there and tell this woman her son died because Dubya has a personal grudge against Hussein, can he?

"After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad." - George W. Bush in September 2002

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." —George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003, making a claim that administration officials knew at the time to be false

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/12336437.htm

President Bush has no plans to meet with the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq who is staging an anti-war protest vigil outside the president's ranch in Texas, his spokesman said Monday.

Cindy Sheehan is vowing to remain at her makeshift campsite outside Bush's compound until the president agrees to talk with her and explain the reasons for the U.S. occupation of Iraq. Her son, Army Specialist Casey Meehan, was killed April 4, 2004, during fighting in Sadr City, Iraq.

National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley and Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagen met with Sheehan for about 45 minutes Saturday after she led a group of about 50 anti-war protesters to within about a mile of Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., is a co-founder of the Gold Star Families for Peace. She and her family met with Bush last year, along with 15 other families who lost a relative in Iraq.

blueturk
08-09-2005, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'm not surprised. You and the other liberals on this board also celebrate the deaths of our brave American troops also. I'm not surprised.

:gulp:

Come on BBB. What the hell's up with that? My wife's nephew is going to Iraq, and she and her sister are all to hell. I resent the hell out of that statement. Thinking that Bush is a lying piece of shit is not equivalent to wishing our troops dead.

DrMaddVibe
08-09-2005, 07:39 PM
PROTESTING SOLDIER MOM CHANGED STORY ON BUSH
Mon Aug 08 2005 10:11:07 ET

The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who is holding a roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch -- has dramatically changed her account about what happened when she met the commander-in-chief last summer!

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., who last year praised Bush for bringing her family the "gift of happiness," took to the nation's TV outlets this weekend to declare how Bush "killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity."

CINDY 2004

THE REPORTER of Vacaville, CA published an account of Cindy Sheehan's visit with the president at Fort Lewis near Seattle on June 24, 2004:

"'I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,' Cindy said after their meeting. 'I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith.'

"The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

"The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

"For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"'That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy said."

CINDY 2005

Sheehan's current comments are a striking departure.

She vowed on Sunday to continue her protest until she can personally ask Bush: "Why did you kill my son?"

In an interview on CNN, she claimed Bush "acted like it was party" when she met him last year.

"It was -- you know, there was a lot of things said. We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity. And we wanted him to look at the pictures of Casey.

"He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, 'So who are we honoring here?' He didn't even know Casey's name. He didn't want to hear it. He didn't want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn't even call him 'him' or 'he.' He called him 'your loved one.'

Every time we tried to talk about Casey and how much we missed him, he would change the subject. And he acted like it was a party.

BLITZER: Like a party? I mean...

SHEEHAN: Yes, he came in very jovial, and like we should be happy that he, our son, died for his misguided policies. He didn't even pretend like somebody...

END

On her current media tour, Sheehan has not been asked to explain her twist on Bush; from praise to damnation!

Developing...

http://drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

blueturk
08-09-2005, 07:40 PM
Interesting....someone needs to ask her about that.

PenguinsKID1986
08-09-2005, 07:41 PM
Who made these people join the military?. Think what you like (we can) this stuff has gone on since Israel became a Nation once again. It wont stop after we leave, and we'll be back when all the muslim nations atack Israel anyways so!

PenguinsKID1986
08-09-2005, 07:50 PM
And yes I lost my Nephew in Iraq Dec. 28 2004, I was at Arlington Jan. 10 2005 to bury him with my family. Nathaniel John Nyren, my sisters only son, he is a hero. I don't blame Bush, that was my nephews job, he was in the miitary.

Nickdfresh
08-09-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally posted by PenguinsKID1986
Who made these people join the military?. Think what you like (we can) this stuff has gone on since Israel became a Nation once again. It wont stop after we leave, and we'll be back when all the muslim nations atack Israel anyways so! '

Since when did our troops join the ISRAELI Army? Since when was this shit supposed to be about ISRAEL? I thought it was about WMD's, Terrorism, now our kids are dying for the state of Israel? Fuck them! nobody's invaded Israel for over 30 years now, they can take care of themselves, we only spend billions supporting them.:rolleyes:

Hardrock69
08-10-2005, 12:26 PM
"After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad." - George W. Bush in September 2002

Oh? And when did this happen? Sadaamite Hussein would have been arrested the moment he set foot in the US!

When was there an assasination plot against GHW Bush foiled?

I think it was the other way around...

"After all, my dad tried to kill this guy".
That is more like it.

You know how to tell if Bush is lying???

His lips are moving.

:rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
08-10-2005, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
"After all, this is the guy who tried to kill my dad." - George W. Bush in September 2002

Oh? And when did this happen? Sadaamite Hussein would have been arrested the moment he set foot in the US!

When was there an assasination plot against GHW Bush foiled?

I think it was the other way around...

"After all, my dad tried to kill this guy".
That is more like it.



U.S. Strikes Iraq for Plot to Kill Bush
By David Von Drehle and R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, June 27, 1993; Page A01
U.S. Navy ships launched 23 Tomahawk missiles against the headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service yesterday in what President Clinton said was a "firm and commensurate" response to Iraq's plan to assassinate former president George Bush in mid-April.

The attack was meant to strike at the building where Iraqi officials had plotted against Bush, organized other unspecified terrorist actions and directed repressive internal security measures, senior U.S. officials said.

Clinton, speaking in a televised address to the nation at 7:40 last night, said he ordered the attack to send three messages to the Iraqi leadership: "We will combat terrorism. We will deter aggression. We will protect our people."

Clinton said he ordered the attack after receiving "compelling evidence" from U.S. intelligence officials that Bush had been the target of an assassination plot and that the plot was "directed and pursued by the Iraqi Intelligence Service."

"It was an elaborate plan devised by the Iraqi government and directed against a former president of the United States because of actions he took as president," Clinton said. Bush led the coalition that drove Iraq from Kuwait in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "As such, the Iraqi attack against President Bush was an attack against our country and against all Americans," Clinton said.

After two months of investigation and mounting evidence, Clinton became convinced during two "exhaustive and exhausting" meetings last week that Iraq was indeed behind a foiled car-bomb plot to kill Bush during his visit to Kuwait April 14-16, a senior administration official said.

Aides met with Clinton Wednesday in the White House residence to present a summary of the evidence gathered by FBI and intelligence sources, the official said. On Thursday, Attorney General Janet Reno and CIA Director R. James Woolsey presented the president with their formal reports.

Clinton ordered the attack Friday, but the raid was delayed a day so it would not fall on the Muslim sabbath, the official said. "About a dozen" U.S. allies and "friends in the region" were told in advance that the attack was coming; the reaction, according to the official, was mostly favorable. British Prime Minister John Major issued a statement last night supporting Clinton's action.

The missiles struck late at night -- between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m. Baghdad time -- because Clinton wished to minimize possible deaths of innocent civilians.

But Iraq, which has consistently denied involvement in any assassination plot against Bush, said there were "many civilian casualties" as a result of the Tomahawk attack, the Reuter news service reported. It quoted Iraqi civil defense officials as saying three people were killed and four rescued.

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's ruling Revolution Command Council denounced the raid as "cowardly aggression" and said Washington's reason for launching it was "fabricated by the vile Kuwaiti rulers in coordination with agencies in the U.S. administration."

An Iraqi Ministry of Information spokesman said the missiles hit a residential area, where Reuter reported that three houses were destroyed.

From Baghdad, Reuter reported smoke and what appeared to be a huge blaze could be seen rising from the site, about two miles from the center of the city in a residential district. But reporters were not immediately given access to the site.

Clinton was persuaded to act by three kinds of evidence, a senior intelligence official said last night. First, key suspects in the plot confessed to FBI agents in Kuwait. Second, FBI bomb experts painstakingly linked the captured car bomb to previous explosives made in Iraq. Third, unspecified intelligence assessments concluded that Saddam meant seriously the threats he has made against Bush. Other classified intelligence sources supported this analysis, the official said.

The combination made the CIA "highly confident that the Iraqi government, at the highest levels, directed its intelligence service to assassinate former president Bush," said the intelligence official.

Clinton had harsh words for Saddam -- Bush's arch-nemesis during the Persian Gulf War -- in his Oval Office address. After listing the Iraqi leader's offenses against the world and his own people, Clinton said: "This attempt at revenge by a tyrant against the leader of the world coalition that defeated him in war is particularly loathsome and cowardly."

Indeed, the tone of the whole speech was notably forceful and stern, coming from the often avuncular Clinton. He saved his kind words for the men and women involved in the investigation and the military strike: "You have my gratitude, and the gratitude of all Americans," he said.

The action was the second major U.S. military operation conducted during Clinton's presidency, coming just two weeks after U.S. forces participated in a multinational strike against forces in Somalia allied with warlord Mohamed Farah Aideed. Unlike that operation, the raid against Iraq was taken unilaterally, entirely apart from the U.N. sanctions still in place against the Iraqi regime.

"This crime was committed against the United States, and we elected to respond and to exercise our right of self defense" under Article 51 of the U.N. charter, Defense Secretary Les Aspin said. "Tonight's unilateral action in no way diminishes U.S. support for coalition action or for the authority of the United Nations."

Bush -- at his home in Kennebunkport, Maine -- was terse when reached by the Associated Press. "I'm not in the interview business, but thank you very much for calling," he said.

Administration sources said Bush's friend and former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft was kept apprised of the investigation, and Clinton called Bush minutes after the attack was launched to give him the news. Secretary of State Warren Christopher flew to Kennebunkport yesterday to brief the former president.

Clinton relied heavily on evidence found by FBI bomb experts linking the Iraqi Intelligence Service to a 175-pound car bomb found April 14 in Kuwait City. According to senior intelligence and law enforcement officials, key pieces of the bomb -- including the remote-control detonator, the plastic explosives, the electronic circuitry and the wiring -- bore an overwhelming resemblance to components of bombs previously recovered from the Iraqis.

The White House press office distributed photographs of circuit boards and detonators taken from earlier Iraqi bombs, alongside photos of the same elements from the bomb meant for Bush. Even to the untrained eye, there were clear similarities.

"Certain aspects of these devices have been found only in devices linked to Iraq," an intelligence official said.

Clinton also had the confessions of the two alleged leaders of the 16 suspects arrested by Kuwait when the plot was uncovered. Both are Iraqi nationals. Ra'ad Asadi and Wali Abdelhadi Ghazali told FBI investigators detailed to Kuwait that they met in Basra, Iraq, on April 12 with "individuals they believed to be associated with the Iraqi Intelligence Service," according to a senior U.S. intelligence official.

They were given a vehicle loaded with hidden explosives. Ghazali told the FBI he was recruited specifically to kill Bush. Asadi also told the FBI he was to guide the car bomb, driven by his partner, to Kuwait University, where Bush was to be honored by the Emir of Kuwait for his leadership in the gulf war.

Administration officials said the suspects told the FBI that the bomb was to be parked near the motorcade route. From a vantage point 300 to 500 yards away, Ghazali would set off the bomb using a remote control. FBI bomb specialists estimated the bomb would have been lethal for nearly a quarter-mile.

FBI agents were told if the remote control device failed, the bomb was to be detonated by a timing device on a street in Kuwait City named for Bush. They were also told that Ghazali had a "bomb belt" he would use if all else failed; he was to wear it, approach Bush and blow them both up.

There have been reports that the suspects held in Kuwait have been tortured by Kuwaiti officials, but a senior law enforcement official said last night that FBI agents "believe they were not." Nevertheless, the official said, confessions are often unreliable, which is why the investigators placed "an especially great emphasis" on the conclusions of the bomb experts.

The CIA recalled that, after the gulf war, Saddam was heard on official Iraq media promising to hunt down and punish Bush, even after he left office. A senior intelligence official said the CIA also had classified evidence proving that the car bomb was meant for Bush, from Saddam.

"We could not and have not let such action against our nation go unanswered," Clinton said in his televised address. "From the first days of our revolution, America's security has depended on the clarity of this message: Don't tread on us."

Clinton had criticized the Iraqi regime on Friday for failing to allow continuous monitoring of its missile test sites by the United Nations. The monitoring was accepted by Baghdad at the end of the 1991 gulf war, as part of a series of agreements meant to strip Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.

But U.S. officials did not cite that dispute in explaining the action last night, and U.S. warplanes involved in policing U.N. sanctions against Iraq did not take part.

Congressional leaders from both parties supported Clinton's action. Senate Minority Leader Robert J. Dole (R-Kan.) called the president from Charleston, W.Va., to give a thumbs-up. "I think it was a good thing. I support it. If I can help, let me know," Dole told Clinton, according to a CNN interview.

The U.S. attack was initiated at 4:22 p.m. (EDT), when two ships -- the destroyer USS Peterson in the Red Sea and the cruiser USS Chancellorsville in the Persian Gulf -- began firing a total of 23 Tomahawk cruise missiles at the Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters complex in downtown Baghdad.

The missiles, which each cost an estimated $1.1 million, typically fly 50 to 100 feet above the ground and navigate by radar according to detailed maps stored in onboard computers. Each missile was capable of carrying up to 1,000 pounds of conventional explosives on their flight to Baghdad of up to two hours.

Officials said the number of missiles was set after detailed analysis of what would be needed to ruin the complex. Navy officials programmed most of the missiles to hit specific aim-points at a building near the center, which Aspin called the "hub of . . . operational planning, interrogations, communication, and computer operations" for the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Colin L. Powell told reporters at the Pentagon last night that a detailed assessment of the damage was not immediately available. But Powell said he had "preliminary information that a large number of them impacted where they were supposed to."

Officials made clear that no further military action was planned and warned Iraq not to retaliate. Powell said the Navy had moved several ships closer to Iraq so the United States could respond to any Iraqi retaliation.

An aerial picture of the principal targeted building, shown to reporters at the Pentagon last night, showed a large, six-story structure with three wings located off the central corridors. Four satellite dishes sat atop the building's roof.

Nearby were various buildings labeled as administrative, housing and support offices or vehicle storage sheds, and the entire complex -- roughly a football field in length -- was surrounded by a wall. U.S. officials cited the complex's isolation and the fact that the attack was timed to occur during Baghdad's nighttime as factors that would reduce the number of innocent casualties.

Powell and Aspin declined to say how many people were expected to be in the complex but said a portion of it functioned around the clock. The attack was not expected to "take down the entire complex," Powell said, but to ruin Iraq's ability to continue using it.

He noted that the complex was attacked and damaged once before by the United States, during the 1991 Operation Desert Storm bombing campaign aimed at pressuring Iraq to withdraw its forces from Kuwait. But Iraq had since rebuilt the headquarters.

Aspin said the Iraqi Intelligence Service is the country's largest such agency and was responsible for providing security for Saddam's regime, repressing internal opposition, collecting foreign intelligence and conducting terrorist operations abroad, including the planned assassination attempt.

Asked to explain why the United States picked that target and did not go after Saddam himself, Aspin said, "It's very difficult to target a single individual. It's very difficult to capture a single individual. Dropping bombs on the hope that you're going to get a single individual is a very, very demanding

Washington Post Article on Saddam and Bush Assassination Attempt (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm)

Nickdfresh
08-10-2005, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
U.S. Strikes Iraq for Plot to Kill Bush
By David Von Drehle and R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, June 27, 1993; Page A01
U.S. Navy ships launched 23 Tomahawk missiles against the headquarters of the Iraqi Intelligence Service yesterday in what President Clinton said was a "firm and commensurate" response to Iraq's plan to assassinate former president George Bush in mid-April.

The attack was meant to strike at the building where Iraqi officials had plotted against Bush, organized other unspecified terrorist actions and directed repressive internal security measures, senior U.S. officials said.

Clinton, speaking in a televised address to the nation at 7:40 last night, said he ordered the attack to send three messages to the Iraqi leadership: "We will combat terrorism. We will deter aggression. We will protect our people."

Clinton said he ordered the attack after receiving "compelling evidence" from U.S. intelligence officials that Bush had been the target of an assassination plot and that the plot was "directed and pursued by the Iraqi Intelligence Service."

"It was an elaborate plan devised by the Iraqi government and directed against a former president of the United States because of actions he took as president," Clinton said. Bush led the coalition that drove Iraq from Kuwait in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. "As such, the Iraqi attack against President Bush was an attack against our country and against all Americans," Clinton said.

After two months of investigation and mounting evidence, Clinton became convinced during two "exhaustive and exhausting" meetings last week that Iraq was indeed behind a foiled car-bomb plot to kill Bush during his visit to Kuwait April 14-16, a senior administration official said.

Aides met with Clinton Wednesday in the White House residence to present a summary of the evidence gathered by FBI and intelligence sources, the official said. On Thursday, Attorney General Janet Reno and CIA Director R. James Woolsey presented the president with their formal reports.

Clinton ordered the attack Friday, but the raid was delayed a day so it would not fall on the Muslim sabbath, the official said. "About a dozen" U.S. allies and "friends in the region" were told in advance that the attack was coming; the reaction, according to the official, was mostly favorable. British Prime Minister John Major issued a statement last night supporting Clinton's action.

The missiles struck late at night -- between 1 a.m. and 2 a.m. Baghdad time -- because Clinton wished to minimize possible deaths of innocent civilians.

But Iraq, which has consistently denied involvement in any assassination plot against Bush, said there were "many civilian casualties" as a result of the Tomahawk attack, the Reuter news service reported. It quoted Iraqi civil defense officials as saying three people were killed and four rescued.

Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's ruling Revolution Command Council denounced the raid as "cowardly aggression" and said Washington's reason for launching it was "fabricated by the vile Kuwaiti rulers in coordination with agencies in the U.S. administration."

An Iraqi Ministry of Information spokesman said the missiles hit a residential area, where Reuter reported that three houses were destroyed.

From Baghdad, Reuter reported smoke and what appeared to be a huge blaze could be seen rising from the site, about two miles from the center of the city in a residential district. But reporters were not immediately given access to the site.

Clinton was persuaded to act by three kinds of evidence, a senior intelligence official said last night. First, key suspects in the plot confessed to FBI agents in Kuwait. Second, FBI bomb experts painstakingly linked the captured car bomb to previous explosives made in Iraq. Third, unspecified intelligence assessments concluded that Saddam meant seriously the threats he has made against Bush. Other classified intelligence sources supported this analysis, the official said.

The combination made the CIA "highly confident that the Iraqi government, at the highest levels, directed its intelligence service to assassinate former president Bush," said the intelligence official.

Clinton had harsh words for Saddam -- Bush's arch-nemesis during the Persian Gulf War -- in his Oval Office address. After listing the Iraqi leader's offenses against the world and his own people, Clinton said: "This attempt at revenge by a tyrant against the leader of the world coalition that defeated him in war is particularly loathsome and cowardly."

Indeed, the tone of the whole speech was notably forceful and stern, coming from the often avuncular Clinton. He saved his kind words for the men and women involved in the investigation and the military strike: "You have my gratitude, and the gratitude of all Americans," he said.

The action was the second major U.S. military operation conducted during Clinton's presidency, coming just two weeks after U.S. forces participated in a multinational strike against forces in Somalia allied with warlord Mohamed Farah Aideed. Unlike that operation, the raid against Iraq was taken unilaterally, entirely apart from the U.N. sanctions still in place against the Iraqi regime.

"This crime was committed against the United States, and we elected to respond and to exercise our right of self defense" under Article 51 of the U.N. charter, Defense Secretary Les Aspin said. "Tonight's unilateral action in no way diminishes U.S. support for coalition action or for the authority of the United Nations."

Bush -- at his home in Kennebunkport, Maine -- was terse when reached by the Associated Press. "I'm not in the interview business, but thank you very much for calling," he said.

Administration sources said Bush's friend and former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft was kept apprised of the investigation, and Clinton called Bush minutes after the attack was launched to give him the news. Secretary of State Warren Christopher flew to Kennebunkport yesterday to brief the former president.

Clinton relied heavily on evidence found by FBI bomb experts linking the Iraqi Intelligence Service to a 175-pound car bomb found April 14 in Kuwait City. According to senior intelligence and law enforcement officials, key pieces of the bomb -- including the remote-control detonator, the plastic explosives, the electronic circuitry and the wiring -- bore an overwhelming resemblance to components of bombs previously recovered from the Iraqis.

The White House press office distributed photographs of circuit boards and detonators taken from earlier Iraqi bombs, alongside photos of the same elements from the bomb meant for Bush. Even to the untrained eye, there were clear similarities.

"Certain aspects of these devices have been found only in devices linked to Iraq," an intelligence official said.

Clinton also had the confessions of the two alleged leaders of the 16 suspects arrested by Kuwait when the plot was uncovered. Both are Iraqi nationals. Ra'ad Asadi and Wali Abdelhadi Ghazali told FBI investigators detailed to Kuwait that they met in Basra, Iraq, on April 12 with "individuals they believed to be associated with the Iraqi Intelligence Service," according to a senior U.S. intelligence official.

They were given a vehicle loaded with hidden explosives. Ghazali told the FBI he was recruited specifically to kill Bush. Asadi also told the FBI he was to guide the car bomb, driven by his partner, to Kuwait University, where Bush was to be honored by the Emir of Kuwait for his leadership in the gulf war.

Administration officials said the suspects told the FBI that the bomb was to be parked near the motorcade route. From a vantage point 300 to 500 yards away, Ghazali would set off the bomb using a remote control. FBI bomb specialists estimated the bomb would have been lethal for nearly a quarter-mile.

FBI agents were told if the remote control device failed, the bomb was to be detonated by a timing device on a street in Kuwait City named for Bush. They were also told that Ghazali had a "bomb belt" he would use if all else failed; he was to wear it, approach Bush and blow them both up.

There have been reports that the suspects held in Kuwait have been tortured by Kuwaiti officials, but a senior law enforcement official said last night that FBI agents "believe they were not." Nevertheless, the official said, confessions are often unreliable, which is why the investigators placed "an especially great emphasis" on the conclusions of the bomb experts.

The CIA recalled that, after the gulf war, Saddam was heard on official Iraq media promising to hunt down and punish Bush, even after he left office. A senior intelligence official said the CIA also had classified evidence proving that the car bomb was meant for Bush, from Saddam.

"We could not and have not let such action against our nation go unanswered," Clinton said in his televised address. "From the first days of our revolution, America's security has depended on the clarity of this message: Don't tread on us."

Clinton had criticized the Iraqi regime on Friday for failing to allow continuous monitoring of its missile test sites by the United Nations. The monitoring was accepted by Baghdad at the end of the 1991 gulf war, as part of a series of agreements meant to strip Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.

But U.S. officials did not cite that dispute in explaining the action last night, and U.S. warplanes involved in policing U.N. sanctions against Iraq did not take part.

Congressional leaders from both parties supported Clinton's action. Senate Minority Leader Robert J. Dole (R-Kan.) called the president from Charleston, W.Va., to give a thumbs-up. "I think it was a good thing. I support it. If I can help, let me know," Dole told Clinton, according to a CNN interview.

The U.S. attack was initiated at 4:22 p.m. (EDT), when two ships -- the destroyer USS Peterson in the Red Sea and the cruiser USS Chancellorsville in the Persian Gulf -- began firing a total of 23 Tomahawk cruise missiles at the Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters complex in downtown Baghdad.

The missiles, which each cost an estimated $1.1 million, typically fly 50 to 100 feet above the ground and navigate by radar according to detailed maps stored in onboard computers. Each missile was capable of carrying up to 1,000 pounds of conventional explosives on their flight to Baghdad of up to two hours.

Officials said the number of missiles was set after detailed analysis of what would be needed to ruin the complex. Navy officials programmed most of the missiles to hit specific aim-points at a building near the center, which Aspin called the "hub of . . . operational planning, interrogations, communication, and computer operations" for the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Colin L. Powell told reporters at the Pentagon last night that a detailed assessment of the damage was not immediately available. But Powell said he had "preliminary information that a large number of them impacted where they were supposed to."

Officials made clear that no further military action was planned and warned Iraq not to retaliate. Powell said the Navy had moved several ships closer to Iraq so the United States could respond to any Iraqi retaliation.

An aerial picture of the principal targeted building, shown to reporters at the Pentagon last night, showed a large, six-story structure with three wings located off the central corridors. Four satellite dishes sat atop the building's roof.

Nearby were various buildings labeled as administrative, housing and support offices or vehicle storage sheds, and the entire complex -- roughly a football field in length -- was surrounded by a wall. U.S. officials cited the complex's isolation and the fact that the attack was timed to occur during Baghdad's nighttime as factors that would reduce the number of innocent casualties.

Powell and Aspin declined to say how many people were expected to be in the complex but said a portion of it functioned around the clock. The attack was not expected to "take down the entire complex," Powell said, but to ruin Iraq's ability to continue using it.

He noted that the complex was attacked and damaged once before by the United States, during the 1991 Operation Desert Storm bombing campaign aimed at pressuring Iraq to withdraw its forces from Kuwait. But Iraq had since rebuilt the headquarters.

Aspin said the Iraqi Intelligence Service is the country's largest such agency and was responsible for providing security for Saddam's regime, repressing internal opposition, collecting foreign intelligence and conducting terrorist operations abroad, including the planned assassination attempt.

Asked to explain why the United States picked that target and did not go after Saddam himself, Aspin said, "It's very difficult to target a single individual. It's very difficult to capture a single individual. Dropping bombs on the hope that you're going to get a single individual is a very, very demanding

Washington Post Article on Saddam and Bush Assassination Attempt (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/longterm/iraq/timeline/062793.htm)

Thanks for posting another useless article BRIE...Don't you have anything better to do all day than to pointlessly Google ancient history?

academic punk
08-10-2005, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Thanks for posting another useless article BRIE...Don't you have anything better to do all day than to pointlessly Google ancient history?

Actually, that was 100% legit.

Bush was no longer even in office when this attempt took place.

Besdies, even Richard Clarke documents all this in Against All Enemies...and describes how he wished the Clinton repsonse had been more severe (though he does say he was impressed with how effective the Clinton strike back was).

Nickdfresh
08-10-2005, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
Actually, that was 100% legit.

Bush was no longer even in office when this attempt took place.

Besdies, even Richard Clarke documents all this in Against All Enemies...and describes how he wished the Clinton repsonse had been more severe (though he does say he was impressed with how effective the Clinton strike back was).

I know, but he's stating the obvious...Although, I would have like to have seen him do it in the middle of the day and killed a few IRAQI secret police agents.

I think a better response would have been to saturation bomb everyone of SADDAM's palaces...

thome
08-10-2005, 08:38 PM
Clintons strike was throwing a rock over a fence in hopes that
none of his pussy left wing pansie friends or dike wife would get mad at him
for such a barbaric act of murder w out cause or follow up.

Thats the kind up pussy play that plays rite into the hands
of the people that hate this country and gives us more cause
as to clinton dropped the ball repeatadly and should shoulder
Blame for whats happening now.

Nickdfresh
08-10-2005, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by thome
Clintons strike was throwing a rock over a fence in hopes that
none of his pussy left wing pansie friends or dike wife would get mad at him
for such a barbaric act of murder w out cause or follow up.

Thats the kind up pussy play that plays rite into the hands
of the people that hate this country and gives us more cause
as to clinton dropped the ball repeatadly and should shoulder
Blame for whats happening now.

What would you have had him do?

How the fuck is it his fault? JUNIOR is the one that invaded IRAQ and has gotten us bogged down...Try reading a news paper sometime!

thome
08-10-2005, 09:20 PM
I would have preferred that clinton did nothing his game was
Fame to get Laid like why most normal guys get onto R&R.

Clinton was always in every position he was appointed to
under qualified and out played by real politicians, he was in it
for attention and pussy and to make big money off the backs
of working people.Laugh clown laugh in the face of America. m.op

Doing nothing will be his legacy in history.
Everything he did Blew up in his or someone elses face.

If he would have just rode on the tail of reagan bush with some amt of
balls this sh@t may be different .my .op

academic punk
08-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Well, Clinton's limited strike seemed to work since Saddam got the message loud and clear and never attempted anything like that again, and didn't even have an active WMD program in 2002.

He was contained, sanctioned, and cornered.

thome
08-10-2005, 10:26 PM
Get OFF..... just drove ..THEM all underground.

You would be Best not conrtadicting me on CLINTONS war record.

Only a attention whore of the first magnitude with NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO talent on the SAX would get a solo
shot on the Tonight show even if he was the president.

Clinton is was and always will be in every way a complete and total
embarrassment to the world!!

Nickdfresh
08-10-2005, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by thome
Get OFF..... just drove ..THEM all underground.

You would be Best not conrtadicting me on CLINTONS war record.

Only a attention whore of the first magnitude with NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO talent on the SAX would get a solo
shot on the Tonight show even if he was the president.

Clinton is was and always will be in every way a complete and total
embarrassment to the world!!

"The World" respected CLINTON, they almost universally think of BUSH as a fuckwit...

DrMaddVibe
08-11-2005, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
"The World" respected CLINTON, they almost universally think of BUSH as a fuckwit...

Rii-ght!

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=clinton+float/v=2/SID=e/l=IVR/SIG=12c8j0leh/EXP=1123845170/*-http%3A//www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/NEWS/9902/04/carnival.clinton/

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Rii-ght!

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=clinton+float/v=2/SID=e/l=IVR/SIG=12c8j0leh/EXP=1123845170/*-http%3A//www.cnn.com/TRAVEL/NEWS/9902/04/carnival.clinton/

Wow, an effigy. That proves a lot...
http://www.peacebus.com/BushVisit/031023BushEffigy.jpg http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1045330471364_2003/02/16/wp5,0.jpg http://www.wehaitians.com/bush_effigy.jpg

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 09:09 AM
August 11, 2005

Mother's Protest at Bush's Doorstep Raises the Stakes
By Edwin Chen and Dana Calvo, Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-warmom11aug11,1,5005269,full.story?coll=la-headlines-nation) Staff Writers

CRAWFORD, Texas — For more than a year, a modest bungalow known as "Peace House," located a few miles from President Bush's ranch, has served as a headquarters for antiwar activists. It is lonely work, with little more than a skeleton crew on hand much of the time.

But then Cindy Sheehan hit town.

The 48-year-old mother of Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, who was killed in an ambush in Baghdad last year, is consumed by the kind of grief that turns into a furious determination to do something — in her case, to confront the president and force him to explain why her son died.

Now, in the space of just a few days, what started out as a seemingly quixotic personal mission has become something of a phenomenon — with media swarming around Sheehan, leading liberal and antiwar activists parachuting in to try to make her their long-sought voice, and political experts in both parties working to assess what role she may have in galvanizing the public's gathering unhappiness with the increasing American casualties in Iraq.

Antiwar leaders hope that putting the spotlight on Sheehan will motivate Americans who oppose the war, creating a political force strong enough to compel the Bush administration to change course.

MoveOn.org and other liberal groups have rushed to provide support, offering media expertise and attempting to assemble a corps of others who have lost relatives in Iraq or have family members serving there.

Liberal voices have swung into action on the Internet as well. On Wednesday, Democratic media consultant Joe Trippi organized a conference call with Sheehan for bloggers, aiming to garner more publicity. By Wednesday afternoon, "Cindy Sheehan" was the top-ranked search term on Technorati.com, the search engine for blog postings.

The White House, meanwhile, has sought to cope with Sheehan's vigil without abandoning its strategy for dealing with the families of troops who have died. On a number of occasions, Bush has met with bereaved relatives — including some who have challenged him sharply on the war — but he has done so privately, away from news cameras and reporters.

Sheehan, a Vacaville, Calif., resident who opposed the war even before her son's death, was a member of one such group in June 2004. She came away from that meeting dissatisfied and angry.

"We wanted [the president] to look at pictures of Casey, we wanted him to hear stories about Casey, and he wouldn't. He changed the subject every time we tried," Sheehan said. "He wouldn't say Casey's name, called him: 'your loved one.' "

Sheehan, a co-founder of the antiwar group Gold Star Families for Peace, has said she would remain in Crawford until she got to see Bush face to face.

Until a cloudburst forced her to move to Peace House early Wednesday morning, Sheehan had been camping in a tent along a road about two miles from Bush's Prairie Chapel Ranch. On Saturday, the day she arrived in Crawford, two senior White House aides — national security advisor Stephen Hadley and deputy chief of staff Joe Hagin — left the ranch to meet with her on a dusty road for 45 minutes.

That, she said, was not satisfactory.

By Wednesday night, Sheehan had given so many interviews that she was sucking on lozenges to soothe an inflamed throat. Her ears were sore from cradling a telephone. Her media advisor, newly arrived from San Francisco, said Sheehan had developed a fever.

None of that stopped her. Whether talking to newspaper reporters, People magazine or radio and television interviewers — some from as far away as Japan — she was relentlessly on message.

"I don't believe his phony excuses for the war," she said of Bush in an interview with a CBS reporter for the network's Northern California affiliates. "I want him to tell me why my son died.

"If he gave the real answer, people in this country would be outraged — if he told people it was to make his buddies rich, that it was about oil."

Sheehan is certainly not the first to denounce the president over the war. From the beginning, activists have been outspoken in criticizing Bush's policy and his stated reasons for sending U.S. troops into Iraq.

For the moment however, the personal nature of Sheehan's protest — with its edge of raw emotion — and the concentration of news media staked out in Crawford, where Bush is spending much of August, have combined to raise her voice above the crowd.

"Anything that focuses media and public attention on Iraq war casualties day after day — particularly [something] that is a good visual for television, like a weeping Gold Star mother — is a really bad thing for President Bush and his administration," said independent political analyst Charlie Cook.

"Americans get a little numb by the numbers of war casualties, but when faces, names and families are added, it has a much greater effect," he said.

"Cindy Sheehan has tapped into a latent but fervent feeling among some in this country who would prefer that we not engage our troops in Iraq," said Republican strategist Kellyanne Conway, president of the Polling Company, based in Washington.

"She can tap into what has been an astonishingly silent minority since the end of last year's presidential contest. It will capture attention."

But other analysts predicted that Sheehan would soon fade from the scene.

"The president has an Iraq problem, but I don't think it's much worsened by Mrs. Sheehan," said professor Stephen Hess of George Washington University. "One Gold Star mother is a sympathetic figure, but collectively — as Gold Star Families for Peace — she is a movement and, as such, can be countered by a countermovement.

"I think the president might have defused the situation if he had invited her in instantly," Hess said, predicting that GOP strategists would soon mount a counterattack.

Already, there were signs of just that.

Some have suggested that Sheehan is disloyal to criticize the president in time of war. Even in Vacaville, Sheehan said, some people say she is shaming her son's memory. Conservative blogger Michelle Malkin disdainfully called the activists promoting Sheehan "grief pimps."

The antiwar activists who have rushed to Sheehan's side are all too well aware of the danger that her moment in the spotlight could become just another partisan shouting match.

Said Tom Matzzie of MoveOn.org: "Cindy reached out to us. We're e-mailing our members about her story today, running a print ad in Waco [Texas]. Cindy is a morally pure voice on the war, so we're trying to keep the focus on her and not jump in and turn it into a political fight."

Since Sheehan arrived in Crawford, Peace House has been transformed into a beehive.

On the porch, bottles of water — and a huge box of collapsible pink umbrellas — were waiting Wednesday to be ferried out to "Camp Casey," the muddy staging area along Prairie Chapel Road where Sheehan and about 100 of her supporters were gathered.

On a table in the living room were stacks of white T-shirts that read "BUSH … Talk to Cindy! Moms and Vets Will Stop the War!"

In the tiny kitchen, two women busily chopped carrots and celery as they prepared to feed a growing cadre of activists. Other volunteers talked on their cellphones, coordinating with supporters around the country.

There was much speculation about "other moms" and parents of troops serving in the war coming to join Sheehan, although no one seemed to know for certain. "A busload is coming from Seattle," one woman called out.

Stephanie Frizzell, 30, said she drove from Dallas with her son, Julian, 4, "to provide support for Cindy." They met last weekend at a Dallas convention of veterans for peace.

According to Ann Wright, who identified herself as a former U.S. diplomat who resigned to protest the war, Sheehan seemed to make a spontaneous decision to come to Crawford while she was addressing the convention Friday.

Wright said many hands were raised, offering to join her mission.

As Sheehan put it Wednesday: "I just had the right idea in the right place at the right time."

*

Times staff writers Ronald Brownstein, Joel Havemann and Johanna Neuman in Washington contributed to this report.

Guitar Shark
08-11-2005, 12:21 PM
I really hope that moveon.org and radical anti-war protestors don't ruin Sheehan's message.

FORD
08-11-2005, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I really hope that moveon.org and radical anti-war protestors don't ruin Sheehan's message.

How could they possibly do so? The right wing shitheads will trash the poor woman regardless. The Fear Channel stations in the area were planning a "Barbecue" (complete with burning crosses, no doubt) to mock Cindy Sheehan and the other mothers & veterans. The dumbasses were even counting on troops from Ft Hood to show up. Until someone with a brain reminded them that Casey Sheehan himself was from Ft Hood, and it would be highly unlikely that the men who served with him would turn against his mother.

Suddenly Fear Channel aborted their planned event. Go figure......

Seems to me that it's the hysterical right wingers who are trying to hijack this event. Not the left wingers.

Guitar Shark
08-11-2005, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by FORD
How could they possibly do so? The right wing shitheads will trash the poor woman regardless. The Fear Channel stations in the area were planning a "Barbecue" (complete with burning crosses, no doubt) to mock Cindy Sheehan and the other mothers & veterans. The dumbasses were even counting on troops from Ft Hood to show up. Until someone with a brain reminded them that Casey Sheehan himself was from Ft Hood, and it would be highly unlikely that the men who served with him would turn against his mother.

Suddenly Fear Channel aborted their planned event. Go figure......

Seems to me that it's the hysterical right wingers who are trying to hijack this event. Not the left wingers.

You either missed my point or are ignoring it. My point is that it is a lot easier for this issue to be buried if the normal anti-war protestor crowd takes center stage. Sheehan's story is much more compelling because she has nothing to gain from her actions, and no political agenda to promote. She just wants an explanation for her son's death, which admittedly has political overtones, but it's a human emotion. Her story will resonate with people. I just don't want other groups to ruin her message.

Warham
08-11-2005, 03:51 PM
I hear that she's in with Michael Moore.

She just ruined herself for life.

Warham
08-11-2005, 03:54 PM
She said this after her first meeting with Bush, barely a year ago...

"'I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis,' Cindy said after their meeting. 'I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith.'

"The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

"The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

"For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"'That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together,' Cindy said."



Now, after cavorting with Michael Moore, she says this:

"It was -- you know, there was a lot of things said. We wanted to use the time for him to know that he killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity. And we wanted him to look at the pictures of Casey.
"He wouldn't look at the pictures of Casey. He didn't even know Casey's name. He came in the room and the very first thing he said is, 'So who are we honoring here?' He didn't even know Casey's name. He didn't want to hear it. He didn't want to hear anything about Casey. He wouldn't even call him 'him' or 'he.' He called him 'your loved one.'

Warham
08-11-2005, 03:57 PM
The rest of Casey Sheehan's family speaks

Posted by JimK on 08/11 at 02:35 PM • E-mail this to a friend
The following statement is vetted here.

Hello again Melanie,

Our family has been so distressed by the recent activities of Cindy we are breaking our silence and we have collectively written a statement for release. Feel free to distribute it as you wish. Thanks – Cherie

In response to questions regarding the Cindy Sheehan/Crawford Texas issue:
Sheehan Family Statement:

The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the the expense of her son’s good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect.

Sincerely,

Casey Sheehan’s grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.


Not much to add to that except shame on Mikey, shame on Air America, shame on MoveOn and shame on Cindy herself.

Update

Received in a lengthy email from MoveOn (which completely twists the facts of course):

P.S. Help defray the cost of the print ads in Waco by making a contribution.
(URL REMOVED)

Yeah. Defray my ass. You’re using Casey Sheehan’s death as a fundraising tool.

And that reminds me. Let’s stop using the mom’s name. Let’s start using Casey’s name. SHE IS NOT THE STORY. He’s not just “the activist’s son who died in Iraq.” He’s the reason anyone knows the Sheehan family. She is Casey’s mother. We’ve reversed the importance here. She’s nobody in this story. He is the story, his decision to enlist, re-enlist and his ultimate sacrifice is what should be discussed. Casey Sheehan, like so many, is a hero, and his mother is simply background to the real story. Start using Casey’s name and leave her to be described as “Casey Sheehan’s mother.”

http://www.moorewatch.com/

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 04:04 PM
Well I can really trust a site that's sole purpose is to "watch Moore."

Warham
08-11-2005, 04:05 PM
You trust Michael Moore more than a site that's watching him?

You've posted plenty of articles from the NY Times. Who can trust them, especially with some of the op-ed's they posted recently.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You trust Michael Moore more than a site that's watching him?

You've posted plenty of articles from the NY Times. Who can trust them?

Silly me, posting articles from a Pulitzer Prize winning newspaper and not some partisan hackjob website...

Warham
08-11-2005, 04:18 PM
They used to be the #1 most respected newpaper in the world. Their ranking has slipped down to #6, I believe. I wonder why?

Going back to the topic though, even her family now says she's using her son for political motivation. Then you toss her affiliation with Michael Moore into the mix. The NY Times, and most of the liberal press makes no mention of the fact that's she actually met with Bush. They make it sound like he's never given her the time of day. It's bullshit.

This is just another subversive attempt to make Bush out to look like the Antichrist.

I feel for her and her family, but she's not doing herself any favors by getting involved with Michael Moore.

FORD
08-11-2005, 04:23 PM
What's your source for Cindy's supposed complimentary comments about Junior?

I've heard her speak of that visit long before this trip to Crawford was planned, and she basically said that Junior was a cold unfeeling bastard who seemed completely oblivious as to what she was going through.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Warham
They used to be the #1 most respected newpaper in the world. Their ranking has slipped down to #6, I believe. I wonder why?

Going back to the topic though, even her family now says she's using her son for political motivation. Then you toss her affiliation with Michael Moore into the mix. The NY Times, and most of the liberal press makes no mention of the fact that's she actually met with Bush. They make it sound like he's never given her the time of day. It's bullshit.

This is just another subversive attempt to make Bush out to look like the Antichrist.

I feel for her and her family, but she's not doing herself any favors by getting involved with Michael Moore.

"Subversive?" Oh brother...:rolleyes:

I heard on CNN this AM that she talked about meeting BUSH, and he basically wouldn't acknowledge her son's memory or name (He kept saying 'your loved one' and changing the subject)

Warham
08-11-2005, 04:39 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What's your source for Cindy's supposed complimentary comments about Junior?

I've heard her speak of that visit long before this trip to Crawford was planned, and she basically said that Junior was a cold unfeeling bastard who seemed completely oblivious as to what she was going through.

The Vacaville (Calif.) Reporter did the original article, but their website is down: www.thereporter.com. Probably from too much bandwidth.

That's where her bits were taken from.

Warham
08-11-2005, 05:29 PM
War protest splits Sheehan family
From staff and wire reports

Family members of Cindy Sheehan, the Vacaville woman camped outside President Bush's ranch in Texas protesting the war in Iraq, reportedly have denounced her actions.

In an e-mail to a San Francisco radio station, Cherie Quartarolo, a sister-in-law and godmother of Sheehan's son, who was killed in action in Iraq in 2004, said: "We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son's good name and reputation.''

Casey Sheehan, an Army specialist, was killed in an ambush in Sadr City a week after his arrival in Iraq. His mother since has become a focal point in the partisan battle over the Iraq war, drawing the praise of many anti-war activists and the ire of those who see her as misguided.

In the e-mail, Quartarolo says she is speaking on behalf of Casey Sheehan's paternal grandparents, as well as "aunts, uncles and numerous cousins.''

Casey's father, Patrick of Vacaville, was not mentioned. He has acknowledged that he and his wife are separated, but he has declined to comment on his wife's high-profile protest in Crawford, Texas.

The family's statement, however, added, "The Sheehan family lost our beloved

Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving.

"The rest of the Sheehan family supports the troops, our country and our president, silently, with prayer and respect.''

Speaking with reporters at his ranch today, Bush expressed sympathy for Sheehan.

"She feels strongly about her position. And she has every right in the world to say what she believes,'' Bush said.

"And I thought long and hard about her position,'' he said. "I've heard her position from others, which is: Get out of Iraq now. And it would be a mistake for the security of this country and the ability to lay the foundations for peace in the long run if we were to do so.''

"One way to honor the fallen,'' he said, "is to lay the foundation for peace.''

Cindy Sheehan said she intends to stay at the ranch until President Bush agrees to talk to her in a face-to-face meeting.

http://thereporter.com/news/ci_2933770

Warham
08-11-2005, 05:33 PM
Here's the original June 2004 article where she talks of Bush's sincerity, but apparently after discussing it with Michael Moore recently, it really wasn't so sincere.

Bush, Sheehans share moments
By David Henson/Staff Writer



Since learning in April that their son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, had been killed in Iraq, life has been everything but normal for the Sheehan family of Vacaville.
Casey's parents, Cindy and Patrick, as well as their three children, have attended event after event honoring the soldier both locally and abroad, received countless letters of support and fielded questions from reporters across the country.

"That's the way our whole lives have been since April 4," Patrick said. "It's been surreal."

But none of that prepared the family for the message left on their answering machine last week, inviting them to have a face-to-face meeting with President George W. Bush at Fort Lewis near Seattle.

Surreal soon seemed like an understatement, as the Sheehans - one of 17 families who met Thursday with Bush - were whisked in a matter of days to the Army post and given the VIP treatment from the military. But as their meeting with the president approached, the family was faced with a dilemma as to what to say when faced with Casey's commander-in-chief.

"We haven't been happy with the way the war has been handled," Cindy said. "The president has changed his reasons for being over there every time a reason is proven false or an objective reached."

The 10 minutes of face time with the president could have given the family a chance to vent their frustrations or ask Bush some of the difficult questions they have been asking themselves, such as whether Casey's sacrifice would make the world a safer place.

But in the end, the family decided against such talk, deferring to how they believed Casey would have wanted them to act. In addition, Pat noted that Bush wasn't stumping for votes or trying to gain a political edge for the upcoming election.

"We have a lot of respect for the office of the president, and I have a new respect for him because he was sincere and he didn't have to take the time to meet with us," Pat said.

Sincerity was something Cindy had hoped to find in the meeting. Shortly after Casey died, Bush sent the family a form letter expressing his condolences, and Cindy said she felt it was an impersonal gesture.

"I now know he's sincere about wanting freedom for the Iraqis," Cindy said after their meeting. "I know he's sorry and feels some pain for our loss. And I know he's a man of faith."

The meeting didn't last long, but in their time with Bush, Cindy spoke about Casey and asked the president to make her son's sacrifice count for something. They also spoke of their faith.

While meeting with Bush, as well as Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, was an honor, it was almost a tangent benefit of the trip. The Sheehans said they enjoyed meeting the other families of fallen soldiers, sharing stories, contact information, grief and support.

For some, grief was still visceral and raw, while for others it had melted into the background of their lives, the pain as common as breathing. Cindy said she saw her reflection in the troubled eyes of each.

"It's hard to lose a son," she said. "But we (all) lost a son in the Iraqi war."

The trip had one benefit that none of the Sheehans expected.

For a moment, life returned to the way it was before Casey died. They laughed, joked and bickered playfully as they briefly toured Seattle.

For the first time in 11 weeks, they felt whole again.

"That was the gift the president gave us, the gift of happiness, of being together," Cindy said.

DrMaddVibe
08-11-2005, 05:46 PM
http://www.ksfo560.com/goout.asp?u=http://www.secondbreakfast.net/archives/002082.html

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 05:56 PM
Funny...Broken links to right wing sites and radio stations are all that are carrying this....

DrMaddVibe
08-11-2005, 05:59 PM
KSFO is the station the family sent their message to fuckwit!

Warham
08-11-2005, 05:59 PM
What broken links?

You think the liberal media would carry her original comments, or her family's comments? Their attempt here is to make Bush look like Hitler, but it's not gonna fly.

DrMaddVibe
08-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Cindy Sheehan II
Cherie Quartarolo (and yes, I spelled it wrong in the first post) confirmed the statement and has forwarded it to others. Melanie Morgan let me know that it has been confirmed. Melanie's statement:

I have recieved many phone calls, letters, and inquiries about the veracity of the letter sent to me by the family of SFC Casey Sheehan, who died in Iraq. His mother Cindy Sheehan is now camping out at the presidential ranch in Crawford, Texas demanding a meeting with Mr. Bush to 'explain his noble cause for which her son died'.

The letter came from Cheri Quarterolo, a regular listener of KSFO Radio. Cheri is Casey Sheehan's Aunt and godmother. I have confirmed that the letter represents the entire Sheehan side of Casey's family.

Many of the relatives do not want their names made public, and will not be making further statements. But Mrs. Quarterolo confirms that Cindy's actions have been extremely hurtful. "We're coming unglued. We can't walk down the street without people stopping us and telling us that they agree with Cindy. We do not."

Mrs. Quarterolo has now spoken with Matt Drudge, and confirmed her identity for his Internet News website.

Best Regards,
Melanie Morgan, co-host of The Lee Rodgers and Melanie Morgan show, KSFO, San Francisco
I also received a confirmation from Cherie Quartarolo herself confirming her statement.

It's painful to see such divisions within a family, but I do believe that those who are suffering from Cindy Sheehan's activism should also be heard.

And no, the comments will not be reopened on the original post and will be closed on this one if they become abusive. Play nice, kids.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:03 PM
http://members.roadfly.org/bm75204/SmellsLikeBullshit.jpg

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:04 PM
Well, Nick, I don't know how many links you need to get the facts.

I guess if the NY Times doesn't post these comments, you just won't believe them. And then if your backup source, the LA Times doesn't have them, then it's certainly BCE propaganda.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Warham
What broken links?

You think the liberal media would carry her original comments, or her family's comments? Their attempt here is to make Bush look like Hitler, but it's not gonna fly.

What ever the moronic logic the BUSH base needs to rationalize what a cunt fearless leader is...

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Well, Nick, I don't know how many links you need to get the facts.

I guess if the NY Times doesn't post these comments, you just won't believe them.

How about REUTERS, AP? The networks?

Who is she again?

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:08 PM
This thread is three pages long, and you don't know the woman's name?

:sigh:

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:09 PM
Here's one by the AP, Nick...

CRAWFORD, TX - Cindy Sheehan, who is the mother of Killed In Action soldier Casey Sheehan, has been staging demonstrations near President Bush's Crawford, Texas ranch.

Although Cindy Sheehan has been kept a few miles away from the actual ranch, President Bush has been very upset about Cindy drawing his press coverage away with her.

"Her days of stealing my press coverage are about to end. She is now being classified as a terrorist threat," decried President Bush.

"That lady is causing me to drop so badly in the polls, and I can't allow that," remarked an angry President Bush.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, one government official said that the President has already given the order to seize and arrest Cindy Sheehan.

"It will be a joint FBI-Department of Homeland Security-Secret Service-National Guard-Sheriff's Department-Local Police raid," explained the official.

The government official told me that it was going to be "like war," and then he showed me a picture of the secret war plan against Cindy Sheehan that the President made.

"Know that I am leaking this at my own risk, to try to stop an injustice. After Bush has her seized and arrested, she will be sent to Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, to be tortured by the U.S. military," the official revealed.

Apparently, the raid will be done with tanks as well, kind of like the Waco attack.

One of the ways the U.S. military could torture Cindy Sheehan is by using sexual harassment techniques by a dominatrix, kind of like the way they have already been doing at both Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.

"The administration is thinking about paying big bucks to hire Paris Hilton to be the U.S. military's torture dominatrix," said a different government official, also speaking on condition of anonymity.

From what my sources have told me, the raid will probably be carried out sometime before August 18th.

On Wednesday, President Bush said, "So what if her son died. Do you think it bothers me? I am getting so rich from this war!"

When I asked about the possibility that this could create a public relations disaster for the administration, the government official told me that the administration plans on distracting people with more celebrity scandals. He also tried to suggest that Bush could possibly go up in the polls, since he could finally "win" something to make up for his failed war policy. Bush would be "winning" a sort of mini-war against Cindy Sheehan.

"Michael Jackson, Scott Peterson, Kobe Bryant - they worked very well for the administration. Karl Rove has already contracted with at least two different celebrities to do something scandalous, in order to deflect media attention away from what the President is doing. Consider them to be like decoys," said my government source.

Bush War Plan:http://www.thespoof.com/picstore/politics/cindysheehanplan_a.JPG

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:11 PM
Bush: Leaving Iraq Would Be a Bad Signal

Thursday August 11, 2005 10:31 PM

AP Photo TXSA101

By NEDRA PICKLER

Associated Press Writer

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush said Thursday he sympathizes with war protesters like the mother camped outside his Texas ranch demanding answers for her solider-son's death, but he said he believes it would be a mistake to bring U.S. troops home now.

Bush said he had ``heard the voices of those saying, `Pull out now.''' And he said, ``I've thought about their cry and their sincere desire to reduce the loss of life by pulling our troops out. I just strongly disagree.''

``Pulling the troops out would send a terrible signal to the enemy,'' the president told reporters between meetings with his military and foreign affairs advisers.

Outside his sprawling ranch, California mother Cindy Sheehan sat on the road with a growing group of war protesters who have pitched tents in shallow ditches. Sheehan's son, Casey, was killed five days after he arrived in Iraq last year at age 24.

Sheehan began her standoff on Saturday, declaring she would stay for the entire month that Bush plans to stay in Texas if he won't meet with her. Since then, dozens of other activists have traveled from across the country to join her, including at least three other parents who have lost children in the war.

``The president says he feels compassion for me, but the best way to show that compassion is by meeting with me and the other mothers and families who are here,'' Sheehan said. ``All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq.''

The protesters put a human face on Americans' increasing opposition to Bush's handling of the war. An AP-Ipsos poll early this month showed just 38 percent of respondents approved of his handling of Iraq. More than 1,840 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the war in March 2003

``I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan,'' Bush said. ``She feels strongly about her position. She has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America. She has a right to her position. And I've thought long and hard about her position. I've heard her position from others, which is, `Get out of Iraq now.'''

``And it would be a mistake for the security of this country and the ability to lay the foundations for peace in the long run if we were to do so,'' the president said.

The White House put out an accounting of all the meetings that Bush has had with families of the war dead - 900 relatives of 272 people who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sheehan met the president in June 2004 but said she deserves another visit since there have been so many revelations about faulty pre-war intelligence since then.

Bush said reports that the Pentagon may increase or decrease troop levels in Iraq next year are simply ``speculation and rumors.'' He noted, though, that the United States had sent more soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan before elections and was considering doing so again before another round of Iraqi elections in December.

Gen. George Casey, the top commander in Iraq, has said repeatedly that ``fairly substantial'' reductions are expected after the election if the political process stays on track, if the insurgency does not expand and if the training of Iraqi security forces proceeds as planned.

Bush said he would make any decision to remove troops based on recommendations by Casey, who gave a briefing by videolink during the president's ranch meeting with advisers.

``My position has been clear, and therefore, the position of this government is clear,'' Bush said. ``Obviously, the conditions on the ground depend upon our capacity to bring troops home.''

Bush said Casey reported that Iraqi security units were becoming more capable, although he acknowledged they were not ready to work alone without support from U.S. forces. He described the Iraqis' progress as improving from ``raw recruit'' to ``plenty capable.''

``I know it's hard for some Americans to see that progress,'' Bush said. ``But we are making progress.''

Bush reiterated that the United States sees no reason that an Iraqi committee working to draft a new national constitution cannot finish its work by a Monday deadline.

On another Mideast topic, Bush indicated that the new Iranian president will receive a U.S. visa to attend an annual United Nations gathering next month.

Bush said U.S. investigators still have not yet determined what role Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad may have played in the 1979 takeover of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran. Six former hostages have identified Ahmadinejad as one of their captors.

Even so, Bush said, the United States has separate obligations to other countries as the host nation for the United Nations, which is headquartered in New York.

``We have an agreement with the United Nations to allow people to come to meet, and I suspect he will be here to meet at the United Nations,'' Bush said.

As host, the United States is obligated under U.N. rules to approve visas to foreign leaders irrespective of political considerations.

Bush said he welcomed the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency's warning to Iran about the consequences of its nuclear ambitions.

The International Atomic Energy Agency's 35-nation board of directors expressed ``serious concern'' Thursday over Iran's resumption of nuclear activities that could lead to an atomic bomb.

``That's a positive first step,'' Bush said.

^---

On the Net:

http://www.whitehouse.gov

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5204394,00.html)

Yeah, then he'd have to admit how bad we've fucked up...

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Here's one by the AP, Nick...

CRAWFORD, TX - Cindy Sheehan, ...


Warham, have you been eating lead chips?

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Warham
What broken links?

You think the liberal media would carry her original comments, or her family's comments? Their attempt here is to make Bush look like Hitler, but it's not gonna fly.



"The president says he feels compassion for me, but the best way to show that compassion is by meeting with me and the other mothers and families who are here,'' Sheehan said. "All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq.''--Cindy SHEEHAN


You were saying something WARPIG?

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Nope, I'm just sticking to the sources you trust, Nick.

You don't trust small town newspapers, so I have to look up the big boys for ya.

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
[quote]
"The president says he feels compassion for me, but the best way to show that compassion is by meeting with me and the other mothers and families who are here,'' Sheehan said. "All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq.''--Cindy SHEEHAN
[/size]

You were saying something WARPIG?

Yeah, he met with her already...last year.

You were saying, Nicky?

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, he met with her already...last year.

You were saying, Nicky?

Yeah, when he blew her off and forgot her son's name....If your going to send kids to their death, at least remember who they are, I bet LBJ would have...WARPIG.

blueturk
08-11-2005, 06:24 PM
I notice that Bush didn't address one question that Sheehan wants to ask him: If this war is for such a noble cause, why aren't the Bush twins enlisting? I'd fucking LOVE to hear the answer to that one.

"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your sacrifice." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:26 PM
Clinton wouldn't even have met with her, period.

Wise words here by George Allen, a man I particularly like...

"I think the president ought to meet with this mother," said Sen. George Allen, a Virginia Republican. "What I would say to her is her son will always be remembered as a great hero and a patriot, advanced freedom in Iraq and the Middle East, has made this country more secure."

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Clinton wouldn't even have...

Okay, who had 6:27PM EST? :D

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
I notice that Bush didn't address one question that Sheehan wants to ask him: If this war is for such a noble cause, why aren't the Bush twins enlisting? I'd fucking LOVE to hear the answer to that one.

"I want to appreciate those of you who wear our nation's uniform for your sacrifice." —George W. Bush, Jacksonville, Fla., Jan. 14, 2005

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail To The Chief",
oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no senator's son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no,

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman come to the door,
Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Yeh, some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no military son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,

- John C, Fogerty

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Okay, who had 6:27PM EST? :D

You were the first to bring up another president. It's all fair game after that.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You were the first to bring up another president. It's all fair game after that.

Good point, I guess all of the the deja-vu got me...

But of course, you always bring him up...

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:33 PM
Yep, he's an easy target.

;)

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yep, he's an easy target.

;)

Of what? When did he invade another country and watch it all turn to shit?

Warham
08-11-2005, 06:46 PM
Oh, he's got a long list of things I could go over, but this thread isn't about him.

I think we should discuss her connections to the sleazy Michael Moore, and what that means here.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Oh, he's got a long list of things I could go over, but this thread isn't about him.

I think we should discuss her connections to the sleazy Michael Moore, and what that means here.

Why, did he get her son killed in IRAQ?

Warham
08-11-2005, 08:36 PM
No, he got some guys killed in Somalia, but that isn't the point.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 08:55 PM
Originally posted by Warham
No, he got some guys killed in Somalia, but that isn't the point.

There own command got them killed by undermining their OPSEC...

And 18 total died in the 'Blackhawk Down' episode.

Fourteen Marines died in one blast last week...:rolleyes:

Warham
08-11-2005, 09:09 PM
One dead soldier is too many, right Nick?

FORD
08-11-2005, 09:10 PM
What does Michael Moore have to do with Somalia?

I seem to remember that being Poppy's fuckup.

Warham
08-11-2005, 09:17 PM
It doesn't have anything to do with Moore.

I told Nick it was off-topic, but he kept on going with it.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Warham
It doesn't have anything to do with Moore.

I told Nick it was off-topic, but he kept on going with it.

Liar! You brought him up...Thalt shall not lie...;)

Warham
08-11-2005, 09:37 PM
I brought him up, after you brought up LBJ, but I tried to get it back on topic by suggesting we talk about how she's connected with the sleazy Michael Moore.

Nickdfresh
08-11-2005, 09:38 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I brought him up, after you brought up LBJ, but I tried to get it back on topic by suggesting we talk about how she's connected with the sleazy Michael Moore. :rolleyes: :confused:

Warham
08-11-2005, 10:04 PM
That alone should set off warning signals.

FORD
08-11-2005, 11:52 PM
A Nation Rocked to Sleep
By Carly Sheehan
Sister of Casey KIA 04/04/04
Sadr City, Baghdad

Have you ever heard the sound of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential rains of a mother's weeping will never be done
They call him a hero, you should be glad that he's one, but
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother screaming for her son?

Have you ever heard the sound of a father holding back his cries?
He must be brave because his boy died for another man's lies
The only grief he allows himself are long, deep sighs
Have you ever heard the sound of a father holding back his cries?

Have you ever heard the sound of taps played at your brother's grave?
They say that he died so that the flag will continue to wave
But I believe he died because they had oil to save
Have you ever heard the sound of taps played at your brother's grave?

Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep
But if we the people let them continue another mother will weep :(

FORD
08-12-2005, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Cindy Sheehan II
Cherie Quartarolo (and yes, I spelled it wrong in the first post) confirmed the statement and has forwarded it to others. Melanie Morgan let me know that it has been confirmed. Melanie's statement:

I have recieved many phone calls, letters, and inquiries about the veracity of the letter sent to me by the family of SFC Casey Sheehan, who died in Iraq. His mother Cindy Sheehan is now camping out at the presidential ranch in Crawford, Texas demanding a meeting with Mr. Bush to 'explain his noble cause for which her son died'.

The letter came from Cheri Quarterolo, a regular listener of KSFO Radio. Cheri is Casey Sheehan's Aunt and godmother. I have confirmed that the letter represents the entire Sheehan side of Casey's family.

Many of the relatives do not want their names made public, and will not be making further statements. But Mrs. Quarterolo confirms that Cindy's actions have been extremely hurtful. "We're coming unglued. We can't walk down the street without people stopping us and telling us that they agree with Cindy. We do not."

Mrs. Quarterolo has now spoken with Matt Drudge, and confirmed her identity for his Internet News website.

It's painful to see such divisions within a family, but I do believe that those who are suffering from Cindy Sheehan's activism should also be heard.



t r u t h o u t | One Mother's Stand
By William Rivers Pitt

Thursday 11 August 2005
8:05 PM

I spoke to Cindy about the "so-called" family who attacked her today. This godmother, according to Cindy, did not know Casey at all. They saw each other maybe once a year. As for the other family members, they have always been at political loggerheads, so their response is no big shock.

Cindy treated it with a shrug. Her husband will send out a more detailed response soon. In the meantime, Cindy says the letter is to be treated as little more than bad, dumb noise.

The vigil goes on.

bad dumb noise.... yep, that's fitting for a Drudge Report smear

Warham
08-12-2005, 07:01 AM
She's probably the only apple that fell off the tree in the family.

blueturk
08-12-2005, 07:10 AM
Damn, I wish Bush would meet with this woman! With no carefully screened crowd of sheep around him and no teleprompter in front of him, he would probably panic.And maybe the sheep would realize what kind of fucking idiot they are supporting.

"As you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 28, 2003

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050811/cm_huffpost/005472

Cindy Sheehan: This is George Bush’s Accountability Moment
Thu Aug 11, 4:56 PM ET

This is George Bush’s accountability moment. That’s why I’m here. The mainstream media aren’t holding him accountable. Neither is Congress. So I’m not leaving Crawford until he’s held accountable. It’s ironic, given the attacks leveled at me recently, how some in the media are so quick to scrutinize -- and distort -- the words and actions of a grieving mother but not the words and actions of the president of the United States.


But now it’s time for him to level with me and with the American people. I think that’s why there’s been such an outpouring of support. This is giving the 61 percent of Americans who feel that the war is wrong something to do -- something that allows their voices to be heard. It’s a way for them to stand up and show that they DO want our troops home, and that they know this war IS a mistake… a mistake they want to see corrected. It’s too late to bring back the people who are already dead, but there are tens of thousands of people still in harm’s way.

There is too much at stake to worry about our own egos. When my son was killed, I had to face the fact that I was somehow also responsible for what happened. Every American that allows this to continue has, to some extent, blood on their hands. Some of us have a little bit, and some of us are soaked in it.

People have asked what it is I want to say to President Bush. Well, my message is a simple one. He’s said that my son -- and the other children we’ve lost -- died for a noble cause. I want to find out what that noble cause is. And I want to ask him: “If it’s such a noble cause, have you asked your daughters to enlist? Have you encouraged them to go take the place of soldiers who are on their third tour of duty?” I also want him to stop using my son’s name to justify the war. The idea that we have to “complete the mission” in Iraq to honor Casey’s sacrifice is, to me, a sacrilege to my son’s name. Besides, does the president any longer even know what “the mission” really is over there?

Casey knew that the war was wrong from the beginning. But he felt it was his duty to go, that his buddies were going, and that he had no choice. The people who send our young, honorable, brave soldiers to die in this war, have no skin in the game. They don’t have any loved ones in harm’s way. As for people like O’Reilly and Hannity and Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh and all the others who are attacking me and parroting the administration line that we must complete the mission there -- they don’t have one thing at stake. They don’t suffer through sleepless nights worrying about their loved ones

Before this all started, I used to think that one person couldn’t make a difference... but now I see that one person who has the backing and support of millions of people can make a huge difference.

That’s why I’m going to be out here until one of three things happens: It’s August 31st and the president’s vacation ends and he leaves Crawford. They take me away in a squad car. Or he finally agrees to speak with me.

If he does, he’d better be prepared for me to hold his feet to the fire. If he starts talking about freedom and democracy -- or about how the war in Iraq is protecting America -- I’m not going to let him get away with it.

Like I said, this is George Bush’s accountability moment.

Warham
08-12-2005, 07:25 AM
In other words, she wants him to tell her it's all about the oil.

Why doesn't she just get Michael Moore to ask him for her?

NightProwler
08-12-2005, 07:26 AM
dumbya is too much of a coward to talk to her.

blueturk
08-12-2005, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by Warham
In other words, she wants him to tell her it's all about the oil.

Why doesn't she just get Michael Moore to ask him for her?

Maybe she wants Dubya to tell her that he had a grudge against Hussein, but he knew that wasn't a good enough reason to invade Iraq, so he lied about WMD's and went to war. Unfortunately, the war was planned so shabbily that nobody in the administration really knows what to do now, so rather than admit anything went wrong, we're just going to hang in there no matter what the majority of Americans think.
And what's with this Michael Moore fixation? Why are the sheep so fucking scared of this guy?

Nickdfresh
08-12-2005, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Warham
She's probably the only apple that fell off the tree in the family.

So your making fun of her for having the gaul to complain about her son being killed in IRAQ?:rolleyes:

frets5150
08-12-2005, 12:26 PM
i

Warham
08-12-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So your making fun of her for having the gaul to complain about her son being killed in IRAQ?:rolleyes:

Nope, I'm merely pointing out who she is allied with in her 'struggle' to meet President Bush, although she's already met him. If every parent like her were granted a second meeting with Bush, he'd never leave Crawford to go back to D.C. She's just towing the 'it's all for oil' line right now. Very coy.

Her son volunteered to join the military, and then re-volunteered.

I'd like to know what he thought of his mission in Iraq.

Nickdfresh
08-12-2005, 06:27 PM
He's not thinking much of anything now...

Warham
08-12-2005, 06:31 PM
My point still stands.

Nickdfresh
08-12-2005, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Warham
My point still stands.

And BUSH is still on an extended vacation while the troops are getting plugged in IRAQ. She has the right to express yourself, and until you lose a son in IRAQ, your point is shit.

FORD
08-12-2005, 07:30 PM
For the record, Casey Sheehan opposed the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, but he freely went over there out of duty. And not to that fucking Chimp either.

BTW, ChickenShit claims he doesn't have time to meet with Cindy Sheehan or the other families and veterans, but he has time to DRIVE BY THEM ON HIS WAY TO A FUCKING REPUBLICAN FUNDRAISER!!!

Fucking bastard :mad:

Guitar Shark
08-12-2005, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by FORD
For the record, Casey Sheehan opposed the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, but he freely went over there out of duty. And not to that fucking Chimp either.

What is your source for this statement?

academic punk
08-12-2005, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by Warham


I'd like to know what he thought of his mission in Iraq.

Do you mean before or after his death?

FORD
08-12-2005, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
What is your source for this statement?

Cindy Sheehan

blueturk
08-12-2005, 11:05 PM
Damn! The whole time, all Cindy Sheehan had to do was donate $25,000 or more to the RNC, and she would have gotten much closer to Dubya. And in much more comfortable surroundings.

"I glance at the headlines just to kind of get a flavor for what's moving. I rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the news themselves." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003

Bush motorcade passes anti-war mom's protest

Friday, August 12, 2005; Posted: 2:27 p.m. EDT (18:27 GMT)

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- President Bush's motorcade, en route to a political fund-raiser near his ranch, passed Friday by the site of Cindy Sheehan's Iraq war protest where more than 100 people had gathered to support her.

Sheehan -- whose son, Casey, was killed five days after he arrived in Iraq last year at age 24 -- held a sign that read: "Why do you make time for donors and not for me?"

It's unclear whether Bush, riding in a black Suburban with tinted windows, looked at the demonstrators as his caravan passed.

The motorcade did not stop.

Law enforcement agencies used their cars to block two intersecting roads, where the demonstrators have camped out this week, and required them to stand behind yellow tape. They were not asked to leave their makeshift campsite.

He arrived at the fund-raiser before noon CT at a neighbor's ranch for a barbecue where he was expected to raise at least $2 million for the Republican National Committee, said RNC spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt.

Some 230 people were attending the fund-raiser at Stan and Kathy Hickey's Broken Spoke Ranch, a 478-acre spread next to Bush's ranch. All have contributed at least $25,000 to the RNC, and many are "rangers," an honorary campaign title bestowed on those who raised $200,000 or more for Bush, or "pioneers," those who have raised $100,000 or more.

On Thursday, Bush, while acknowledging that some families of U.S. soldiers serving in Iraq want to bring the troops home now, said he believed that would be a big mistake.

"Pulling the troops out would send a terrible signal to the enemy," he said.

Speaking to reporters at his ranch, the president noted that the United States sent more soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan before elections and was considering doing so again before another round of Iraqi elections in December.

Reports that the Pentagon may increase or decrease troop levels in Iraq next year were simply "speculation and rumors," he said between meetings Thursday with his military and foreign affairs advisers.

Gen. George Casey, the top commander in Iraq, has said repeatedly that "fairly substantial" reductions were expected after the election if the political process stayed on track, if the insurgency did not expand and if the training of Iraqi security forces proceeded as planned.

Bush said he would make any decision to remove troops based on recommendations by Casey, who gave a briefing by videolink during the president's ranch meeting with advisers.

"My position has been clear, and therefore, the position of this government is clear," Bush said. "Obviously, the conditions on the ground depend upon our capacity to bring troops home."

The president said Casey reported that Iraqi security units were becoming more capable, although he acknowledged they were not ready to work alone without support from U.S. forces. He described the Iraqis' progress as improving from "raw recruit" to "plenty capable."

"I know it's hard for some Americans to see that progress," Bush said. "But we are making progress."

As for bringing the troops home, the president said he had "heard the voices of those saying, 'Pull out now."'

"I've thought about their cry and their sincere desire to reduce the loss of life by pulling our troops out. I just strongly disagree," he said.

"I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan," Bush said. "She feels strongly about her position. She has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America."

As Bush spoke, Sheehan, sat on the road outside his ranch with a growing group of war protesters.

Sheehan began her standoff Saturday, declaring she would stay until Bush meets with her. Since then, dozens of other activists have joined her, including at least three other parents who have lost children in the war, although the protesters began facing increased antagonism Thursday from locals and opposition from other military families.

"The president says he feels compassion for me, but the best way to show that compassion is by meeting with me and the other mothers and families who are here," Sheehan said. "All we're asking is that he sacrifice an hour out of his five-week vacation to talk to us, before the next mother loses her son in Iraq."

An AP-Ipsos poll early this month showed just 38 percent of respondents approved of Bush's handling of Iraq. More than 1,840 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the war in March 2003

The White House said Bush has met with 900 relatives of 272 people who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Sheehan met the president in June 2004 but said she deserves another visit since there have been so many revelations about faulty prewar intelligence since then.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/12/bush.friday.ap/

Jesus Christ
08-13-2005, 04:48 AM
This I say unto the Son of Bush....

Ye hath robbed this woman of her son, just as the Romans robbed My Mother. Only I'm the Son of God, so I got to say goodbye to Mom once I rose from the dead.

the Sheehan family did not have that opportunity. And Casey's blood, and the blood of all others whom ye hath killed with thy lies, I will require by THY hand.:mad:

DrMaddVibe
08-13-2005, 09:02 AM
Jesus, How's 'bout consoling the mom yourself!

So now Jesus wants blood by his hand?

Niiii-ce!

knuckleboner
08-13-2005, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I'm not surprised. You and the other liberals on this board also celebrate the deaths of our brave American troops also.


not quite all of us.


and this woman's protest is stupid.

i'm very sorry her son died. awful tragedy. no parent should have to endure that. but it doesn't mean she automatically gets a meeting with the president.

(and, uh, how exactly did she feel about the war when OTHER people's sons and daughters were dying?)

BigBadBrian
08-13-2005, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
not quite all of us.


and this woman's protest is stupid.

i'm very sorry her son died. awful tragedy. no parent should have to endure that. but it doesn't mean she automatically gets a meeting with the president.

(and, uh, how exactly did she feel about the war when OTHER people's sons and daughters were dying?)

Excellent points, KB, as usual from you.

My first remark was, indeed, made to evoke a response. It worked. :D

FORD
08-13-2005, 05:11 PM
Just a reminder to the Busheep of who this woman is and why she is doing this....

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050813/capt.ny11608131753.peace_mom_ny116.jpg
Army Maj. Gen. Rodney Kobayashi presents the Purple Heart and Bronze Star to Cindy Sheehan, standing left, in this Tuesday, April 13, 2004 file photo, during a funeral service for her son, Army Spc. Casey Sheehan, 24, in Vacaville, Calif. Sheehan was killed in action south of Baghdad Sunday, April 4, 2004, when the convoy he was in was ambushed. Seven other soldiers also died in the attack. (AP Photo/The Vacaville Reporter, Rick Roach, File)

And now, here are the idiots protesting against this brave woman, shouting "We Don't Care" that her son is dead.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-2/12444/Crawford3.jpg

Typical "patriotic" Busheep... can't even keep a flag off the ground. Morons :rolleyes:

Warham
08-13-2005, 05:30 PM
Hey, at least we aren't burning them.

FORD
08-13-2005, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Hey, at least we aren't burning them.

And there's the irony.... According to the law, that is exactly what should be done to that flag, now that it's been dragged on the ground.

Warham
08-13-2005, 05:36 PM
To tell you the truth, FORD, it's hard to tell if that flag is touching the ground or not. I need to see video footage of it flapping around before I make a judgement call.

Phil theStalker
08-13-2005, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
Damn, I wish Bush would meet with this woman! With no carefully screened crowd of sheep around him and no teleprompter in front of him, he would probably panic.And maybe the sheep would realize what kind of fucking idiot they are supporting.

"As you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 28, 2003.
Caligula mmmmust bee stopppped..

G-d willing..

uh uh uh h uh uh

named his horse t2o da senate..

www.idg.com.sg/ShowPage.aspx?pagetype=2&articleid=671&pubid=5&issueid=39


:spank:

NOT SO BIG ON BRAINS
Caligula Served Only F4our Years
CHIMP HAS ALREADY BEEN IN LONGER THAN DAT
"ya say ya wanna revo-lution"

Phil theStalker
08-13-2005, 06:04 PM
<marquee direction=left>REGIME CHANGE IS GOOD</marquee>

REVOL


:spank:


REVOL
Regime Change Is Good
IT'S GOOD!

Phil theStalker
08-13-2005, 06:11 PM
Happiness is a revolution...:)


:spank:

DrMaddVibe
08-14-2005, 10:59 AM
Cindy Sheehan talks and waits outside president's ranch
By DENISE GAMINO
Cox News Service
Friday, August 12, 2005

CRAWFORD, Texas — Even the florists are making house calls to Cindy Sheehan's foxhole.
TONY GUTIERREZ/AP Photo
(enlarge photo)
Flowers sent in support of the protest line the roadside camp as Cindy Sheehan, left, of Vacaville, Calif., holds hands with Sue Niederer, right, of Pennington, N.J.

Her small, silver tent is pitched in a rain-soaked ditch one and a half miles from orange barricades that prohibit entrance to a road leading to President Bush's 1,600-acre rolling prairie ranch. She's not leaving, so the world comes to her: national television news teams, cell phone calls from members of Congress, and steady deliveries of fresh cut flowers.

And every bouquet, it seems, sparkles with blooms of a distinctive "Tie a Yellow Ribbon" shade of lemon.

But Sheehan's eldest child won't be coming back to Fort Hood, which is close enough to pierce her vigil with the haunting booms of weaponry practice. Casey Sheehan, a 24-year-old former altar boy who planted 1,100 trees for his Eagle Scout project, was killed in an ambush on April 4, 2004, just days after the 1st Cavalry Division arrived in Iraq.

Cindy Sheehan, of Vacaville, Calif., is not just a bereaved mother of four. She's an angry mother who's stubbornly demanding a face-to-face meeting with the president to challenge his decision to invade Iraq and to argue for immediate troop withdrawal. She wants Bush to stop saying that her son and 1,841others (by the latest Associated Press count) died for a "noble cause."

"I didn't 'lose' my son," she snaps when someone expresses sympathy over the loss of Casey. "My son was killed by George Bush."

Sheehan is 6 feet tall, but her voice is more Katie Holmes than Lauren Bacall. Determination seems to fill every inch of her lanky, tanned frame, from the brim of her Catholic youth minister cap autographed by the teens under her charge to the brand new tattoo on her left ankle that bears her son's name and dates of his birth and death.

The president is on a five-week vacation at his ranch outside Crawford, about 20 miles west of Waco.

''I think it's obscene," Sheehan said. "He's committed troops to war. They're over there sweltering. They're not equipped properly and the people of Iraq don't have any clean water; they don't have electricity to cool their houses down. Our troops are out there with their body armor and they shouldn't be there in the first place."

"And then he comes and takes a five-week vacation. I just hope this is putting a little crimp in it for him," she said. "I'm never going to be able to fully enjoy another vacation because he's put a permanent hole in my life."

Sheehan and several dozen anti-war protestors who have joined her cause marched to the barricades outside Bush's ranch last Saturday but were turned back by law officers. Since then, Sheehan has hung up her cell phone only long enough to grab a donated snack, type a daily blog on a laptop, put on a rain poncho and catch about four hours of sleep per night in her tent.

When she talks on the phone with one reporter, 15 more calls come in. She talks on the phone while sitting in a lawn chair, while pacing in the roadway, while sitting in someone else's car, its windshield wipers sweeping away rain dollops. She even talks while being driven into town for a restroom break at the Peace House, a nonprofit Crawford haven for protestors, where she is besieged by well-wishers.

For a woman who describes herself as having been "pathologically shy" as a young wife, Sheehan, 48, has been transformed from a grieving mom to a bona fide media celebrity. Along the way, she and her husband, Casey's father, have separated.

''We both are handling our grief differently," she says on the 5-mile ride into Crawford. "He agrees with the philosophy behind what I'm doing, that the war was wrong and George Bush lied, but he doesn't understand that I have a passion that I have to do this and this is the only way. If I can shorten the war by one minute and save one life, that would just give me so much comfort in my grief."

Sheehan is joined in protest at her campsite, dubbed "Camp Casey," by about a dozen women from CODEPINK, a women's peace group. They wear funky clothing the color of Pepto-Bismol — oversized, floppy hats that would be at home at a garden party, lacey slips layered over T-shirts, flouncey skirts that get caught in car doors, hems flapping in the breeze — and they place huge pink banners ("Meet with Cindy," "Out of Iraq Now") around Sheehan's encampment.

The women in pink schedule every minute of Sheehan's day, allowing most reporters only five-minute interviews in order to squeeze in as many as possible. "She did 20 hours of interviews yesterday," one said Wednesday.

Other protestors have come from California, Arizona, Pennsylvania and elsewhere. Sometimes as many as 50 cars are parked along the road here. Some parents bring children; one California woman brought a large black dog that sought a pat on the head from every passerby. One car with three small children in the back seat drove through the encampment with Cat Steven's "Peace Train"playing on the car stereo. From the road, onlookers take photos with disposable cameras.

The curious scene has taken on a sort of "Roger & Me" feel, with more than a few similarities with activist documentary filmmaker Michael Moore's dogged pursuit of General Motors chairman Roger Smith for his 1998 film. Interestingly, Moore's web site carries Sheehan's daily blog (www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php). And the scene is reminescent of the days when another Texan was president, and anti-war demonstrators sometimes gathered and camped across the Pedernales River from Lyndon Johnson's ranch near Stonewall.

Johnson never met with the protestors, although sometimes he'd send an aide to speak to them or gather their petitions (which promptly went into the trash, according to one Johnson insider).

Two top aides — national security adviser Stephen Hadley and a deputy chief of staff — visited with Sheehan near her tent on Saturday. But Sheehan wants to look the president in the eye, to ask him why her son died and to implore him to bring the troops home now.

Bush had met with Sheehan and her family at Fort Lewis, Wash., last summer, but Sheehan claims Bush did not know her son's name, refused to look at photos of him and repeatedly referred to him as the "loved one." Sheehan says she did not debate the president at the time because she was in grief and shock.

"I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan," Bush told reporters Thursday. "She feels strongly about her position, and she has every right in the world to say what she believes. This is America."

"I understand the anguish that some feel about the death that takes place," Bush said. "I also have heard the voices of those saying: Pull out now. And I've thought about their cry and their sincere desire to reduce the loss of life by pulling our troops out. I just strongly disagree."

Immediate withdrawal "would send a terrible signal to the enemy," he said. "It would be a mistake for the security of this country and the ability to lay the foundations for peace in the long run if we were to do so."

Meanwhile, California. members of Veterans for Peace began erecting white crosses near Sheehan's tent and along the country lane to honor the fallen soldiers of the Iraq war.

Sheehan's camp, situated in a shallow roadside ditch, has grown almost by the hour. Her tent is flanked by those of two quiet-spoken war protestors: Ann Wright, a former State Department official who resigned in protest when Bush launched the Iraqi invasion in March, 2003, and Jim Goodnow, a Coast Guard veteran from Terlingua who favors tie-dyed shirts and doesn't mind washing his feet in muddy rain puddles.

Sleeping on a cot nearby is Bill Mitchell, an Army veteran from Atascadero, Calif., a city near the coast midway between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Mitchell's son, Michael, was killed in the same ambush as Casey Sheehan.

"Our sons died together," Mitchell said. "They didn't know each other, but they flew home together. That picture [of flag draped coffins on a military plane] in the Seattle Times on April 7th last year that got all the publicity? Mike and Casey were in that picture.''

Another parent whose child died in Iraq, Celeste Zappala, also arrived this week. Zappala and Sheehan are co-founders of Gold Star Families for Peace. Zappala's son, Sgt. Sherwood Baker died on April 26, 2004, the first member of the Pennsylvania National Guard to die in combat since 1945.

When Sheehan saw Zappala arrive on Tuesday evening, she jumped from her chair.

"Oh, sweetie," Sheehan said as she pulled Zappala into a tight embrace. "Finally! I just can't tell you how happy I am. Even though I was surrounded by people, I felt alone."

Then she took a call.

Afew hours later, a red pickup truck crawled to a stop near the tents, bearing a "Cowboy for Christ" front license plate.

"Well," said the driver, local cattle auctioneer Gregg Jernigan. "Has he [Bush] honored y'all with an appearance?"

It turned out that Jernigan and his wife, Annetta, are among the few self-proclaimed Democrats in a ranching area of deep Republican sentiment.

"Going into Iraq . . . ." Jernigan said, "that's like somebody hitting one of my kids and me go to my neighbor's and whup the hell out of 'em because someone else whupped my kid. You know, that is stupid." Jernigan said.

He paused to spit his chew into a Dr. Thunder soda can.

Annetta Jernigan said, "You know, he could defuse the whole thing if he'd just came out here and had a conversation with them." Other local landowners want the protestors to leave immediately. Marilyn Vansau clashed with the protestors earlier this week and forced them to get off a small, triangle-shaped piece of land in front of Sheehan's tent.

"My children need a quiet place to live," she said.

Her next-door neighbor, Larry Mattlage, spent part of Wednesday afternoon on his four-wheeler trying to prevent protestors from parking cars on the grassy easement in front of his goat farm.

"I understand these people's cause. I appreciate that," he said. But, he added, "Everybody just wants to know when it's going to be over. Are we going to have to put up with this all summer?" As the sun began to set, a red Coast Guard helicopter circled low near the encampment. But there wasn't much to see. Most protestors had gone to Crawford to eat or find a place to stay overnight.

The night sky awaited Sheehan.

"A few weeks after [Casey] died, as I was laying on his grave in Vacaville, I was looking up at the stars and I said, 'You know what, Casey? You're part of the universe now.' And as soon as I said 'now,' there was a shooting star," she said.

The annual Perseids meteor shower peaks tonight.

Denise Gamino writes for the Austin American-Statesman. E-mail: dgamino@statesman.com

DrMaddVibe
08-14-2005, 11:02 AM
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX AUG 14, 2005 08:02:39 ET XXXXX

BUSH PROTESTING MOM CALLS FOR 'ISRAEL OUT OF PALESTINE'; VOWS NOT TO PAY TAXES

Anti-war protestor Cindy Sheehan, whose soldier son Casey was killed in Iraq, is calling for Bush's "impeachment," and for Israel to get out of Palestine!

"You get America out of Iraq and Israel out of Palestine and you'll stop the terrorism," Sheehan declares.

Sheehan, who is asking for a second meeting with President Bush, says defiantly: "My son was killed in 2004. I am not paying my taxes for 2004. You killed my son, George Bush, and I don't owe you a penny...you give my son back and I'll pay my taxes. Come after me (for back taxes) and we'll put this war on trial."

"And now I'm going to use another 'I' word - impeachment - because we cannot have these people pardoned. They need to be tried on war crimes and go to jail."

The 48-year-old California mom remains tented up in a ditch along the one-lane road that leads to Bush's Texas ranch.

As her protest entered its second week, hundreds of people with conflicting opinions about the war in Iraq descended on the area.

TIME mag reports in new editions on Monday: Sheehan gets support from her surviving son, Andy, in principle, but he recently sent her a long e-mail imploring her, "to come home because you need to support us at home."

Developing...

Warham
08-14-2005, 02:10 PM
Here's a good comment from a fellow that posted on Drudge's site.

"I am a retired Navy Chaplain. I've been associated with family members, mothers, wives, dads, who are grieving. I have never, not once in 20 years, seen grief that took the form that Ms. Sheehan is exhibiting. To say it's abnormal grief is fair. In fact, it's odd.

Perhaps it's because the death of her son broke her up with her husband. Kubler-Ross says grieving is in stages: denial, anger, barganing, depression, acceptance. She seems stuck in one of the stages.

Or, perhaps it's because she is being motivated by a grand leftist antiwar socialist conspiracy (doubt, but possible). But whatever you call it, it's bordering on stalking behavior and should not be encouraged.

If she could be consoled by a visit from her son's unit commander or the unit chaplain, I'd recommend such a visit. Somehow, I think her "grief" is really a political statement, and not true grieving, and I doubt she would be helped by such a visit, but I'd be game to assist.

Oh, and... Aren't we worried about setting a precedent? If every mother, wife, father, uncle, or cousin of one of the half million service members who died in WWII requested a 5 minute personal audience with FDR, that would have been all he could have done. For years. Decades. Perhaps his whole life, assuming a 1600-hour per year workspan, and about 50,000 hours of 5-minute visits to do. The president has to choose whom to honor with his time, and it should be his call, not hers. We should not fault him if he chooses not to do it.

I don't think the President should set a precedent of this, and I don't think her request is justified nor would it help her grieving. Perhaps she can find healing by moving on to acceptance, and going back to her husband and tring to live a quiet, normal life."

BigBadBrian
08-14-2005, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe


The night sky awaited Sheehan.

"A few weeks after [Casey] died, as I was laying on his grave in Vacaville, I was looking up at the stars and I said, 'You know what, Casey? You're part of the universe now.' And as soon as I said 'now,' there was a shooting star," she said.



This country has some fine mental health professionals. Let's hope this woman finds one.

:gulp:

academic punk
08-14-2005, 02:22 PM
I actually agree that W should not set a precedent and meet with her, and I do suspect - as I've said - that this is much more greatly organized than just one grieving mom hanging out and wanting to talk, but to say that

"I have never, not once in 20 years, seen grief that took the form that Ms. Sheehan is exhibiting. To say it's abnormal grief is fair. In fact, it's odd.

Perhaps it's because the death of her son broke her up with her husband. Kubler-Ross says grieving is in stages: denial, anger, barganing, depression, acceptance. She seems stuck in one of the stages."

Well, maybe it's b/c there has never been a war like this one before. We don't know what the "noble cause" is that Bush keeps referring to. We went in under false premises. We changed the reasons we went in. We talk of liberating the country, and yet it's more unstable than ever, and many reports say it will get worse before it gets better.

With all that "abnormality" in the war effort, doesn't it make sense for an equally "abnormal" reaction?

Amazingly, though, it;'s the baby boomers who are once again leading the way to the anti-war movement. Gen X and the generations after seem pretty apathetic, all things considered.

FORD
08-14-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
This country has some fine mental health professionals. Let's hope this woman finds one.

:gulp:

Maybe YOU should find one?

What the FUCK is wrong with you people??

The woman's son died in a war BASED ON FUCKING LIES.

And yet the right wing attacks HER instead of the criminal, lying pieces of shit responsible for her son's death.

If you can't see how FUCKED UP that is, then YOU are the ones who need a mental health professional.

Warham
08-14-2005, 02:28 PM
She was against the first Gulf War, along with John Kerry. Not too much confusion about why we went into Kuwait in 1991.

She's an anti-war liberal. She would have been against the war even if her son hadn't died.

academic punk
08-14-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Warham


She would have been against the war even if her son hadn't died.

uh...and?

I don't have a son (I hope), and I'm against the war. What's your point?

Christ, I hope I don't have a son...

Warham
08-14-2005, 02:38 PM
My point is exactly what I said.

Her son's death is just a part of her modus operandi, apparently.

She just wants to meet Bush so she can rake him over the coals, and any reasons he gives her for the war effort besides the 'it's all for Halliburton' line will not be accepted.

She's fallen in with the likes of Michael Moore now.

BigBadBrian
08-14-2005, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by FORD

The woman's son died in a war BASED ON FUCKING LIES.

And yet the right wing attacks HER instead of the criminal, lying pieces of shit responsible for her son's death.



The RIGHT WING is responsible, huh FORD? You didshit, look at the quotes below. Tell me any outcome was different had a looney bin Liberal taken office.

:rolleyes:

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to
develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them.
That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We
want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal
here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear,
chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest
security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time
since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb,18,1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the
U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if
appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond
effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of
mass destruction programs."

Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom
Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass
destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he
has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D,CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has .. chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass
destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons
programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs
continue at apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition,
Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the
cover of an illicit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that
will threaten the United States and our allies."

Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others,
Dec . 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat
to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of
the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the
means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical
weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002


"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to
deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is
in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing
weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27,2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are
confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and
biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to
build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence
reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority
to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because believe
that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a
real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively
to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the
next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated
the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass
destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years,
every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and
destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This
he has refused to do"
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show
that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He
has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al
Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam
Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and
chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10,2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam
Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for
the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Bob Graham (D,FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal,
murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a
particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to
miscalculation ..And now he is miscalculating America's response to his
continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction
... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is
real."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA),Jan.23. 2003

Warham
08-14-2005, 02:44 PM
They can't be held accountable for those quotes, Brian.

Remember, liberals have the power of 20/20 hindsight where they can take back things they said prior to an war effort started by a Republican.

academic punk
08-14-2005, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[SIZE=6] FORD You didshit,

What's a "didshit"?

FORD
08-14-2005, 03:22 PM
Half of Brian's quotes were from 1998. Before Scott Ritter's UN team did a thorough inspection of Iraq and found very little.

The late 2001-2002 quotes were based on the false evidence manufactured by the BCE themselves, before Hans Blix's UN team did a thorough inspection of Iraq and found NOTHING.

Once again, this is about the BCE planning a war at any cost years before they stole the White House and then starting that war based on TOTAL LIES. Whomever they conned into believing those lies is not the issue.

blueturk
08-14-2005, 11:31 PM
I'll bet this guy can meet Dubya anytime he wants!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/14/AR2005081401242.html

Mom's Protest Riles Gun-Toting Neighbor

By ANGELA K. BROWN
The Associated Press
Sunday, August 14, 2005; 10:57 PM

CRAWFORD, Texas -- Undaunted by counter rallies and even a neighbor's gunshot blasts into the air, a woman whose son died in Iraq said Sunday that she will continue her anti-war demonstration near President Bush's ranch for three more weeks.

"We can't give up, no matter hard it gets," said Cindy Sheehan of Vacaville, Calif. She started the protest Aug. 6 in memory of her 24-year-old son Casey, an Army specialist killed in Iraq last year.

Her makeshift campsite along the road leading to the Western White House has grown to more than 100, and hundreds more have stopped by for a few hours to show their support. Sheehan says she won't leave "Camp Casey" until Bush meets with her and other grieving families or until his monthlong ranch visit ends.

More than 350 war protesters rallied at the site Saturday afternoon, hours after some 250 Bush supporters waved American flags in a counter rally across the street, holding signs that said Sheehan was unpatriotic and was hurting troop morale.

While about 60 in Sheehan's group held a religious service Sunday morning, a nearby landowner, Larry Mattlage, fired his shotgun twice into the air. Sheriff's deputies and Secret Service agents rushed to his house but did not arrest him.

"I ain't threatening nobody, and I ain't pointing a gun at nobody," Mattlage said. "This is Texas."

Mattlage said he was initially sympathetic toward the demonstrators, but that they have blocked roads in the area and caused traffic problems. He said he fired his gun in preparation for the dove-hunting season, but when asked if he had another motive, he said, "Figure it out for yourself."

Sheriff's deputies have kept a presence at the demonstrators' site, and more than a dozen law enforcement cars flanked the edge of the camp Saturday to keep them and the pro-Bush rally separated. A few from each side got into heated verbal exchanges, but no one was arrested.

Sheehan, 48, said she was not concerned with her own safety but that she has told others to be aware that "this could get physical, even though we are peaceful."

"I think we knew of the risks when we came down here," she said. "I'm surprised we haven't had more of that since we're in Bush country."

Sheehan, who met with two top Bush administration officials on her first day of the protest, said some of her supporters have left the campsite but that others keep arriving from around the country.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan but has not said if he will meet with her.

Sherry Bohlen of Scottsdale, Ariz., drove with two friends to Crawford last week but didn't leave Sunday as planned.

"This is history in the making, and it's hard to walk away from that," said Bohlen, whose son Thor has been in Iraq for a month.

BigBadBrian
08-14-2005, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Warham
They can't be held accountable for those quotes, Brian.

Remember, liberals have the power of 20/20 hindsight where they can take back things they said prior to an war effort started by a Republican.

Or if "is" was part of the sentence.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
08-14-2005, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Half of Brian's quotes were from 1998. Before Scott Ritter's UN team did a thorough inspection of Iraq and found very little.

The late 2001-2002 quotes were based on the false evidence manufactured by the BCE themselves, before Hans Blix's UN team did a thorough inspection of Iraq and found NOTHING.

Once again, this is about the BCE planning a war at any cost years before they stole the White House and then starting that war based on TOTAL LIES. Whomever they conned into believing those lies is not the issue.



:IGNORE:

scorpioboy33
08-14-2005, 11:55 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[B] The RIGHT WING is responsible, huh FORD? You didshit, look at the quotes below. Tell me any outcome was different had a looney bin Liberal taken office.
Do you mean a regular DIDSHIT or a WHOLESCALE DIDSHIT :)
BIG BAD BRIAN haha

jcook11
08-15-2005, 12:02 AM
My nephew returned from Iraq a few months ago and wants to go back.I don't press him to tell me what went on there .He is proud to.He tells me me we are making a difference there.Iam sorry that this woman lost her son. There are many people with agendas who want to meet the president.Iwould like to meet with him...so what!

I am someone who voted twice for W.and am starting to lose faith

scorpioboy33
08-15-2005, 12:09 AM
I honestly believe that if you start a war your kids must enlist period!

DrMaddVibe
08-15-2005, 07:17 AM
I honestly believe that if you're in the Armed Forces that there's a chance you might see armed conflicts!

BigBadBrian
08-15-2005, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[B] The RIGHT WING is responsible, huh FORD? You didshit, look at the quotes below. Tell me any outcome was different had a looney bin Liberal taken office.
Do you mean a regular DIDSHIT or a WHOLESCALE DIDSHIT :)
BIG BAD BRIAN haha

Get your kicks out of that peabrain, because typographical errors and keystroke mistakes are about all you have on me. Now go eat your Froot Loops.

Twit. Double Twit. :cool:

:gulp:

FORD
08-15-2005, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by scorpioboy33
I honestly believe that if you start a war your kids must enlist period!

I agree. DRAFT JENNA & TONIC!!

DrMaddVibe
08-15-2005, 06:38 PM
Sheehan's Husband Seeks Divorce
Bush roadside protester named in California petition filed Friday

AUGUST 15--The next well-wisher approaching Cindy Sheehan at her tent encampment outside President George W. Bush's Texas vacation home may actually be a process server. That's because the California woman's husband--in a curious bit of timing--filed for divorce Friday afternoon (below you'll find a copy of Patrick Sheehan's complaint, lodged August 12 in Solano County District Court). With Sheehan, 48, entering a second week outside Bush's Crawford retreat, her husband's divorce petition cites "irreconcilable differences" for the demise of the couple's 28-year marriage (the Sheehans, the document states, have been separated since June 1). Along with a Vacaville home, Patrick Sheehan listed other "community assets" as "any and all benefits payable as a result of son's death," including a Prudential insurance policy and "benefits from the U.S. Government." From her roadside outpost, Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son Casey, an Army Specialist, was killed last year in Iraq, has become the face of the U.S. antiwar movement, telling reporters that she will not budge until Bush meets with her and explains "why our sons are dead." Noting that Bush has referred to the war as a "noble" pursuit, Sheehan told Reuters, "If it's such a noble cause, why aren't his daughters over there?" Through an aide, Patrick Sheehan's lawyer, Glen DeRonde, declined to comment about the court filing, so it is unclear whether the divorce complaint will be delivered to Cindy Sheehan in Texas or when she returns to her home east of San Francisco. (4 pages)

TUNE IN: Smoking Gun TV premieres tomorrow night (8/16) at 11 PM on Court TV


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0815051sheehan1.html

LoungeMachine
08-15-2005, 10:06 PM
CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush, noting that lots of people want to talk to the president and "it's also important for me to go on with my life," on Saturday defended his decision not to meet with the grieving mom of a soldier killed in Iraq.

Bush said he is aware of the anti-war sentiments of Cindy Sheehan and others who have joined her protest near the Bush ranch.

"But whether it be here or in Washington or anywhere else, there's somebody who has got something to say to the president, that's part of the job," Bush said on the ranch. "And I think it's important for me to be thoughtful and sensitive to those who have got something to say. But, I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life."

The comments came prior to a bike ride on the ranch with journalists and aides. It also came as the crowd of protesters grew in support of Sheehan, the mother who came here Aug. 6 demanding to talk to Bush about the death of her son.

LoungeMachine
08-15-2005, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush, noting that lots of people want to talk to the president and "it's also important for me to go on with my life," .




Bush said on the ranch. " I think it's also important for me to go on with my life, to keep a balanced life."

Hardrock69
08-15-2005, 11:53 PM
The Bush Administration is losing their grip.

If Cindy Sheehan follows Chimp to D.C.. I think America should follow.

And camp out in front of the White House.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081505Z.shtml

FORD
08-16-2005, 03:22 AM
Here's how right wing Busheep SHITHEADS "support the troops".....

http://www.uploads.in/images/underbear1/crossescampcasyflattened.jpg

Cindy Sheehan and the other Gold Star mothers & veterans groups placed 1800 crosses in memorial to the fallen troops along the road to Chimpyland.

Tonight some FUCKING ASSHOLE dragging a chain behind his truck deliberately knocked down many of the crosses.

Nice "patriotism", SHITHEADS!! :gun:

jcook11
08-16-2005, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's how right wing Busheep SHITHEADS "support the troops".....

http://www.uploads.in/images/underbear1/crossescampcasyflattened.jpg

Cindy Sheehan and the other Gold Star mothers & veterans groups placed 1800 crosses in memorial to the fallen troops along the road to Chimpyland.

Tonight some FUCKING ASSHOLE dragging a chain behind his truck deliberately knocked down many of the crosses.

Nice "patriotism", SHITHEADS!! :gun:

Nice try cocksucker,How many mothers cried about Hiroshama or Nagasaki Pearl Harbor 911 or all the wars going back to the begining of time:gun:

jcook11
08-16-2005, 04:08 AM
FORD you really are a piece of fucking dogshit!

I didn't think so before now but FUCK YOU, You are a self hating piece of road shit and I never thought I would hate someone but FUCK YOU !You are worse than roy could ever be!

Have a nice day

Warham
08-16-2005, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's how right wing Busheep SHITHEADS "support the troops".....

http://www.uploads.in/images/underbear1/crossescampcasyflattened.jpg

Cindy Sheehan and the other Gold Star mothers & veterans groups placed 1800 crosses in memorial to the fallen troops along the road to Chimpyland.

Tonight some FUCKING ASSHOLE dragging a chain behind his truck deliberately knocked down many of the crosses.

Nice "patriotism", SHITHEADS!! :gun:

FORD, was that private or public property that they put those crosses on?

BigBadBrian
08-16-2005, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Here's how right wing Busheep SHITHEADS "support the troops".....

Cindy Sheehan and the other Gold Star mothers & veterans groups placed 1800 crosses in memorial to the fallen troops along the road to Chimpyland.

Tonight some FUCKING ASSHOLE dragging a chain behind his truck deliberately knocked down many of the crosses.

Nice "patriotism", SHITHEADS!! :gun:

Undoubtedly one of their own as a ploy.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
08-16-2005, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by jcook11
FORD you really are a piece of fucking dogshit!

I didn't think so before now but FUCK YOU, You are a self hating piece of road shit and I never thought I would hate someone but FUCK YOU !You are worse than roy could ever be!

Have a nice day


The incoherent ramblings of the homeless in Orang County


Making "roy" references? Keep this 3rd grade shit in non, mensa



How's the couch?:D

LoungeMachine
08-16-2005, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by Warham
FORD, was that private or public property that they put those crosses on? :rolleyes:

academic punk
08-16-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Warham
FORD, was that private or public property that they put those crosses on?

Had to be public. They could have been arrested for loitering or even harrassment if it were private.

(In fact, in NYS if you spray paint a side of a building - graffitti - that can get you a felony for "assault" and "possession of a weapon", and, of course, "assault with a weapon".

FORD
08-16-2005, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
FORD you really are a piece of fucking dogshit!

I didn't think so before now but FUCK YOU, You are a self hating piece of road shit and I never thought I would hate someone but FUCK YOU !You are worse than roy could ever be!

Have a nice day

Take your medication. And give some to Ass Prowler while you're at it.

FORD
08-16-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Warham
FORD, was that private or public property that they put those crosses on?

Public, since it was the side of the road.

But that's not the issue. The physical acts of vandalism and reckless behavior on the part of the right wing shithead takes a back seat here to the symbolism of what they did.

These people already set up a counter protest across from Camp Casey and shouted "We Don't Care" repeatedly.

"We Don't Care" that your son died, Mrs. Sheehan.

"We Don't Care" how many of your sons died in the name of this useless, pointless, illegal, criminal war. Because we're fucking stupid Busheep who believe what pigs like Mike Gallagher, and Mush Limpdick tell us, rather than the reality.

When that fucking piece of shit ran over those crosses and dragged them with a chain, he might as well been doing so to the soldiers themselves and their families.

But then, this IS Texas we're talking about. And actually dragging people behind a truck isn't off limits there either.

Sick fucking bastards.

BigBadBrian
08-16-2005, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Public, since it was the side of the road.

But that's not the issue. The physical acts of vandalism and reckless behavior on the part of the right wing shithead takes a back seat here to the symbolism of what they did.

These people already set up a counter protest across from Camp Casey and shouted "We Don't Care" repeatedly.



I think they were referring to her protest, you short-bus graduate.

:gulp:

Warham
08-16-2005, 03:43 PM
They say 'we don't care' because of what's she's doing, not because of what her son did. She's a liberal nut. Period. Even her husband couldn't stand it. He doesn't want to be near his lunatic wife, and who can blame him?

She's towing the anti-war liberal agenda, and she might as well be using the DNC talking points daily memo. Bush is NEVER going to meet with her, especially when she's calling him a murderer. Forget it. She should go back home now and spare herself more days out in that hot Texas sun.

Warham
08-16-2005, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes:

It's a valid question.

diamondD
08-16-2005, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by FORD

When that fucking piece of shit ran over those crosses and dragged them with a chain, he might as well been doing so to the soldiers themselves and their families.

But then, this IS Texas we're talking about. And actually dragging people behind a truck isn't off limits there either.

Sick fucking bastards.


A lot of people feel the same way about you and your 9-11 theories disrespecting the dead. But, as long as you get your agenda points across, do you care what other people think?

The offender got arrested, not much more you could ask for. The people that live there are pretty stressed from all of this.

Might be more effective if you didn't use lunacy like "it's OK in Texas to drag people behind trucks" Kinda makes you look out of touch with reality. ;)

Warham
08-16-2005, 04:31 PM
President Bush Pictured Kissing Cindy Sheehan

As Blogs For Bush reports, two pictures of the original meeting between Cindy Sheehan and President Bush were at one point posted on the Sheehan Family website. Since her story changed, the pictures have been removed. However, cached versions of the photos exist thanks to Google, and one of the photos clearly shows President Bush giving Cindy Sheehan a kiss on the cheek!

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/media/bush1.jpg

Matt at Blogs For Bush writes:
This seems to disprove her new version of her first meeting President Bush. Her current version of what happened when she first met President Bush was that he acted "like it was a party" and kept changing the subject whenever her son came up in conversation. It seems to me (and I'm sure any reasonable person) that if that version was true, this photo of President Bush kissing Cindy Sheehan would never have happened... certainly her original version of the story would have never been made... This picture of Bush kissing her gives credence to the original version, not the post-MoveOn.Org version.

I guess Cindy Sheehan is not one to kiss and tell...

http://www.pardonmyenglish.com/archives/2005/08/sheehan_kiss.html

FORD
08-16-2005, 05:33 PM
Complaint Filed After Driver Crushes Crosses At Anti-War Protest Site
Makeshift Memorial Run Down By Pickup Truck Driver

http://media.graytvinc.com/images/Larry-Northern.jpg
Troop Hating piece of shit Busheep Larry Northern

Larry Northern, 59, of McLennan County, was charged Tuesday with Criminal Mischief Over $1,500 and under $20,000 after a pickup truck tore through a row of white crosses erected by anti-war protesters gathered near the President’s ranch in Crawford.

Bail was set at $3,000. Northern later posted bond and was released.

The crosses bear the names of U.S. military personnel who have died in the war in Iraq.

Witnesses said the driver swerved the truck in and out of the makeshift memorial Monday night.

The protesters who are camped out in Crawford expressed outrage at the vandalism.

Cindy Sheehan, the California woman around whom the protesters have rallied since Aug. 6, is the focal point of national controversy.

She is demanding a meeting with the President about the death of her son Casey, a 1st Cavalry Division soldier who was killed last year in Iraq.

“Our hearts are broken about this,” Sheehan said in a prepared statement about the destruction of the crosses released Tuesday afternoon.

“ We continue to work closely with local law enforcement offices and the secret service to be good neighbors,” she said.

Warham
08-16-2005, 05:40 PM
Good neighbors? When did she buy property next to the Bush ranch?

FORD
08-16-2005, 06:53 PM
Veteran Offers New Campsite to Camp Casey, Closer to Bush Ranch

Camp Casey is moving closer to Bush Ranch…

A veteran and relative of relative of “the man who had fired a shotgun in frustration over the protests” has offered his property to Cindy Sheehan and Camp Casey. The property is closer to Bush’s Crawford ranch.

“A neighbor of President Bush’s has offered us his land,” the source said. “It’s got plenty of acreage for us, it’s private land, we would have legal permission to be on it, it’s much closer to the ranch — in fact it’s across the street from his (Bush’s) church.”

“We have taken him up on his offer,” the source added.

Sheehan was not immediately available for comment.

Sheehan was expected to begin moving as early as Wednesday morning.

This is a small victory for Cindy Sheehan who is in her 10th day of protest outside of Bush’s Crawford Ranch.

According to the source, the land offered to Sheehan is owned by Fred Mattlage, who is a distant cousin of Larry Mattlage, a man who fired a shotgun over the weekend in frustration over the commotion caused by the vigil.

‘I support what you all are doing’
The source said Fred Mattlage made the offer saying “I’m a veteran, I support what you all are doing and I want to offer you my land.”


Thanks, Fred, for your service, and for your stand in solidarity with other veterans and families of the dead. Unlike your gun crazy cousin and that other bozo named Larry, YOU are a real patriot!

Warham
08-17-2005, 04:15 PM
BY JAMES TARANTO
Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:08 p.m. EDT

The Crippled-Vet Ploy

There's plenty of blame to go around for the appalling spectacle of Sheehanoia, but one name that hasn't been mentioned is that of John Kerry. Kerry might have invented, and he certainly pioneered, the tactic being employed by those who are exploiting Cindy Sheehan to further their political agenda. As he explained to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April 1971:

"I called the media. . . . I said, 'If I take some crippled veterans down to the White House and we chain ourselves to the gates, will we get coverage?' 'Oh, yes, we will cover that.' "

Do you remember the media spectacle in Crawford, Texas, a year ago? It was precisely the crippled-vet ploy. Kerry sent triple amputee Max Cleland, who had been defeated in his 2002 Senate re-election bid, to deliver a letter to President Bush demanding that the president denounce the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. This move was stunning in its audacity, though not its effectiveness: Here was Kerry, staking his campaign on his authority as a Vietnam veteran, appealing to the authority of another Vietnam veteran in an effort to silence Vietnam veterans who opposed him.

The media love this sort of story because of its man-bites-dog nature: Vietnam veteran says fellow vets are war criminals! Sept. 11 widows blame Bush for their husbands' deaths! Gold Star Mother says son died in vain! But isn't the shtick getting a little old by now?

In any case, because of this man-bites-dog quality the stories are ultimately meaningless. John Kerry did not actually speak for Vietnam veterans, most of whom thought their service was honorable. The "Jersey girls" do not actually speak for Sept. 11 widows, most of whom understand that Islamist terrorists, not the president, murdered their husbands. And Cindy Sheehan does not actually speak for Gold Star Mothers, most of whom remember their children as heroes, not dupes; and hardly any of whom agree with Sheehan that "this country is not worth dying for."

Sheehanoia is a sign of the desperation, not the strength, of the left in America. Publicity stunts are no substitute for an actual political program. Joan Walsh writes in Salon:

Even as Sheehan's public relations victories give people reason to be optimistic about the administration's unraveling in Iraq, liberals and war opponents have to be careful not to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Rooting for "the administration's unraveling in Iraq"--that is, for America's defeat in the central antiterror battleground--is not what we'd call a political program.

Warham
08-17-2005, 04:34 PM
She's like the new Hanoi Jane.

blueturk
08-17-2005, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Warham
She's like the new Hanoi Jane.

That has got to be one of the most moronic bleatings I have ever read. You are serving your wool covered leader well.

"We discussed the way forward in Iraq, discussed the importance of a democracy in the greater Middle East in order to leave behind a peaceful tomorrow." —George W. Bush, Tbilisi, Georgia, May 10, 2005

Warham
08-17-2005, 06:46 PM
Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Remember that the Vietnam War (Iraq War) was fought for reasons many Americans considered unworthy, but yet there was Jane Fonda (Cindy Sheehan) out there breaking down American morale, and causing our troops to get into more harm's way over in Southeast Asia (Iraq). When the guys came home, people were spitting on them in airports, calling them babykillers. Many vets felt like their country had turned on them. (might happen, we'll see).

Many vets, including my father, never forgave Fonda for those anti-war comments over the years. She was a traitor.

Warham
08-17-2005, 06:53 PM
Cindy Sheehan: Rosa Parks or Jane Fonda?
By Robert Freeman

Is Cindy Sheehan the Rosa Parks or the Jane Fonda of the War in Iraq? Is she the lonely sentinel, standing righteously against injustice? Or a self-centered publicity seeker, endangering American soldiers in the War?

The question is something of a political Rorschach test, telling us more about ourselves and our appraisal of America's wars than about Sheehan. But asking it and understanding the issues behind the question might help us find a solution to the illegitimate and failed War.

Rosa Parks is an iconic figure of twentieth century America because she so tidily embodies one of its greatest ideals: the courageous stand against injustice. When she refused to give up her seat on the bus, she let loose a fire that had simmered since the end of the Civil War. Despite its ideals of equality, American society in the early 1960s was manifestly unequal. Blacks were undeniably second-class citizens, their subjugation systematically abetted by the government itself.

The cultural esteem for Parks' heroism originates with the founding fathers. They, too, had been made second-class citizens by their own government. They were denied representation, protection against unreasonable searches, and trials by jury, rights guaranteed to all Englishmen. They demanded those rights of King George but were rebuffed. Mending those injustices became the inspiration for the American Revolution.

Jane Fonda is a similarly iconic figure but for different and more complex reasons. Her conflicted celebrity, almost 40 years after her act, reflects not one but two models that collide with each other in the American psyche and that make the protest of war so problematic for Americans.

In the hostile rendering, Fonda endangered American soldiers in Vietnam by providing succor to the enemy. "Hanoi Jane" is no more than a latter-day Tokyo Rose, and, in fact, a modern day Benedict Arnold. There is no exculpation for her acts. They were traitorous. And the garden variety war protesters were merely state-side acolytes in the treason, inescapably stained with the same existential guilt.

But the fact that Fonda still enjoys celebrity status with much of the American citizenry suggests, at the very least, another deeply held understanding of her acts. Just as Parks had done, Fonda defied the tyranny of her own government, a government that had abandoned its own ideals and was perpetrating a massive injustice.

Ho Chi Mihn had asked President Truman in 1946 if the U.S. would help the Vietnamese throw off the yoke of French colonial occupation. Sadly, Truman sided with the French, betraying his country's founding ideals of self-determination and freedom from colonial domination. In that act, he irretrievably undermined the U.S. moral position with the Vietnamese people, ultimately dooming the course of the War. Truman's betrayal of American ideals is the origin of our enduring angst about the Vietnam War. But it is not the only source.

While Americans ritualistically mourn the 58,000 U.S. soldiers killed in Vietnam, we are oblivious, or worse, indifferent, to the fact that more than three million Vietnamese were killed. That is 50 Vietnamese killed for every American. And this, against a country that had never attacked or even threatened to attack the United States but, rather, had asked it for help.

It is a profound moral blindness to deny the immorality of such a war. Fonda's protests of the War, of the betrayal inherent in its origins and the brutal injustice that saturated its execution, are what sustains the positive side of her reputation today.

The meaningful question now is, does protest against the current War endanger its outcome? In some sense, the answer must be "yes". But that doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. The North Vietnamese paid close attention to American sentiment towards their war. Ho Chi Mihn rightly observed, "Eventually, the Americans will tire of their losses and will have to go home." His strategy was one of enervation, of fatiguing America of its will to fight. It worked. A similar dynamic is surely playing out in Iraq today.

As public rejection of the War steadily mounts it becomes increasingly clear that the War will not be won. But that can hardly be the fault of the miniscule number of protesters or the even more minute coverage they have belatedly received in the media. Rather, it is an indictment of the legitimacy of the War itself, of Bush's deceitful campaign to sell it to the American people, and of his catastrophically failed execution of it. In fact, it is an all-too-telling measure of the fragility of the War's support that its backers are so spooked, so threatened, by the simple civil protest of one single woman.

What if the Vietnam protests had not occurred? It was the impending civil war in the U.S. that convinced Johnson's "Wise Men" that the War must be ended. What if the protesters had been silenced, as the right wing thugs want to silence Cindy Sheehan today? What if the War had gone on for another ten years and another 58,000 American and another three million Vietnamese lives had been lost?

In this sense, the protests undoubtedly saved soldiers' lives, in fact, many times more lives than might have been lost as their consequence. They unquestionably helped end a calamitous injustice.

But beyond concerns for body counts lies a more perplexing irony of protest, one that is seemingly lost on those who would condemn Cindy Sheehan as the Hanoi Jane of Iraq. It is precisely through such acts of protest that America itself was born. Those who would muzzle Sheehan would destroy the very freedom to challenge government that they claim to be fighting for, that they claim to be wanting to install into Iraq.

Worse, by silencing protest, they make it impossible to weigh the justice-or to end the injustice-of the War itself. As with Vietnam, Iraq never attacked or even threatened to attack the U.S. As with Vietnam, Iraq's invasion was rationalized by a massive campaign of lies and distortions by the U.S. government. The war has killed almost 2,000 American soldiers and, according to Lancet, the respected British medical journal, over 100,000 Iraqis, mostly women and children. As with Vietnam, that is 50 Iraqis killed for every American.

And as with Vietnam, it is a profound moral blindness that tries to conflate such acts into a just cause. It is equally profound political cowardice that needs to suppress the voice of a single woman who would simply question the justification for such acts. For, as with protest, accountability of the government to its people is one of the elemental bases of America's founding, indeed, of its very existence.

Finally, beyond body counts, beyond the sanctity of protest, beyond the imperative to confront and right injustice, beyond the need for accountability, lies the simple question of how the war can be ended. It was not Cindy Sheehan's but George Bush's Dogpatch demagoguery that declared, "Bring 'em on!"

But his war spawns insurgents far faster than Bush can kill them. It long ago breached the dikes of Iraq itself and has metastasized throughout the rest of the world. It has made America and the world less safe from terrorism, not more so. And there is no end in sight. When the president's latest aim for the War itself-to reduce terror-has been lost, "Stay the course" is not a plausible, not even a remotely sensible strategy.

Yet that is all Bush has to offer the American people. It is not acceptable. A sizable majority of Americans now believe the war is a failure. How can it possibly be a threat to the nation to ask of the man who lied us into it how he plans to get us out? Or is it simply Bush's plan to wait for another 2,000 American soldiers' deaths? And another 2,000? And another 2,000? When will it end? And how?

Perhaps more than either Rosa Parks or Jane Fonda, Cindy Sheehan is really the child in the fairy tale who declared that the emperor had no clothes. It was his unadorned innocence against the arrogant casuistry of the local pundits that finally awoke the town to what everybody could see but were too embarrassed to admit: they had been taken.

The servile idolatry of authority that so insecurely needs to suppress a lone woman's protest against such a transparent and tragic fraud as the War in Iraq is a far greater threat to America than is that simple protest itself. If we truly believe in America, the merits of the Iraq War notwithstanding, we must honor and defend Cindy Sheehan's act. Even more, we must join it to defend it against the faux patriots who would ruthlessly, happily silence not only Sheehan but all of the rest of us as well.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0814-20.htm

Warham
08-17-2005, 06:56 PM
Seeing as how I'm like FOX news, I'm fair and balanced, so I presented the other side of the argument for you to decide.

Phil theStalker
08-17-2005, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Remember that the Vietnam War (Iraq War) was fought for reasons many Americans considered unworthy, but yet there was Jane Fonda (Cindy Sheehan) out there breaking down American morale, and causing our troops to get into more harm's way over in Southeast Asia (Iraq). When the guys came home, people were spitting on them in airports, calling them babykillers. Many vets felt like their country had turned on them. (might happen, we'll see).

Many vets, including my father, never forgave Fonda for those anti-war comments over the years. She was a traitor.
I don't remember Jane Fonda having a son killed in combat in Vietnam.

If I didn't believe in your right to speak your mind out as Sheehan is doing, I'd tell you t2o shutdafakup..

You know NOTHING.


:spank:

ps your stupidity is disrespecting a lady like Ms. Sheehan and it's a good thing she doesn't have t2o read yoo..

have a goode nite

Warham
08-17-2005, 07:03 PM
I respect her son, not her.

Big difference.

Phil theStalker
08-17-2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I respect her son, not her.

Big difference.
Yoo should respect everyboody, like i do..

respect da criminals and no torture..

r-e-s-p-e-c-t

find out wot tit means t2o mme

r-e-s-p-e-c-t

take care, TCB

yoo know dis is a mmmessage board, rite?!


:spank:

blueturk
08-17-2005, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Remember that the Vietnam War (Iraq War) was fought for reasons many Americans considered unworthy, but yet there was Jane Fonda (Cindy Sheehan) out there breaking down American morale, and causing our troops to get into more harm's way over in Southeast Asia (Iraq). When the guys came home, people were spitting on them in airports, calling them babykillers. Many vets felt like their country had turned on them. (might happen, we'll see).

Many vets, including my father, never forgave Fonda for those anti-war comments over the years. She was a traitor.

Vietnam didn't have false WMD's, false expectations of warm welcomes, or a false end to major combat operations announcement with a "Mission Accomplished" photo-op 7 weeks after it's beginning.

Your comparisons of Jane Fonda and Cindy Sheehan are just more bleating. Whether you choose to recognize it or not, the majority of Americans are questioning the reasons for invading Iraq.Cindy Sheehan is not a spoiled, stupid, traitorous slut like Jane Fonda (I had relatives who were in Nam too). She isn't making posing next to somebody's head. Maybe she just wants to know the reason why we are in Iraq.

I've never heard anybody on either side of this issue condemn the troops. They are doing their job. Some people just wonder what the job is. The description changes so fucking often, who can tell?

Interesting how a true sheep like yourself feels compelled to compare this war to Vietnam.

"I think war is a dangerous place." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003

Warham
08-18-2005, 07:06 AM
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.

DrMaddVibe
08-18-2005, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Warham
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.

Most of America does too brudda! Its lost on the bitter and liberal crowd!

FORD
08-18-2005, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Warham
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.

Then maybe you should tell the Chimp, because he sure as Hell can't stick to one answer.

4moreyears
08-18-2005, 09:24 AM
This woman is a nut. Does this mean that every relative of a person killed in combat should be able to demand a meeting with our President? I am sorry for her loss but she needs to move on with her life.

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by Warham
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.
Well, yoo're reely amazing then Warham, because mmmost aff da cuntry doesn't know wot REAL reasons da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq f4or since 2003 or anytime, and da chimp keeps changing the reasons in his story.

Please, tell us all WHY da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq. We don't know wot yoo know.

Wot doo yoo know aboot da REAL reasons why da U.S. went int2o Iraq...and since 2003. Thank you, I'll wait f4or your answer.


:spank:

FORD
08-18-2005, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by 4moreyears
This woman is a nut. Does this mean that every relative of a person killed in combat should be able to demand a meeting with our President? I am sorry for her loss but she needs to move on with her life.

EVERY American citizen deserves an explanation from these sons of bitches as to why they are throwing away hundreds of billions of dollars, the entire economy, the lives of almost 2000 troops, and the credibility of this nation itself, all over a FUCKING LIE!!!

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Most of America does too brudda! Its lost on the bitter and liberal crowd!
Most aff da cuntry does NOT know, shithead.

Hmm...why don't YOU tell us wot REAL REASONS da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq.

Tit seems NOBOODY knows sexcept you and Warham so let us and da whole cuntry in on yer KNOWLEDGE aff da REAL REASONS da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq.

And, after reading all aff yer shit from Warham, BBB, and YOU I think it's time you THR3EE shut up and put your money where yer mouth is and ENLIST or RE-ENLIST or RE-RE-RE-ENLIST and get off of this message board an go serve your conscious in Iraq.

Pleeze, shut da fak up and go t2o Iraq, ok..

Yer not WINNING any CONVERTS here..

and dat should tell yoo thr3ee a little sumthing aboot yer "REASONS" da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq..

Doo yooo know why I KNOW yoo thr3ee are full aff crap? Because anytime I'm thrown in wit da label liberals I know dat person knows NOTHING.

They know NOTHING aboot mme and they know NOTHING aboot wot they are talking aboot..

So please tell mme (and most aff da cuntry) why da U.S. "went int2o" Iraq. I'll be waiting f4or yoo t2o tell mme and everyo1ne else wot Bush and/or Blair cun't tell THE PEOPLE aboot da REAL reason.

I've heard sum aff yer answers bef4ore, "Tit's dose WMD's...well, they're not there...butt he killed a lot aff people (nothing new in the world)...and, oh yeh, he had nothing t2o do wit 9/11, butt tit's da U.S.'s JOB t2o wage other countries wars f4or revolution with U.S. blood and U.S. taxpayer money especially aff dat country has OIL."

Dat's yer answers so far. I've read them.

Aff yoo have mmore enlightenment as t2o yer feeble lying points PLEASE, PLEASE tell mme now.


:spank:

BigBadBrian
08-18-2005, 10:06 AM
Phil, if you had a serious response, I just might take you seriously. :D

But I just can't.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
08-18-2005, 10:29 AM
I always figured Phil had some sort of speech impediment in real life....and he was just being trying to type how he speaks for us.

Warpig is full of SHIT.

Chimp, Rummy, and Cheney can't even get the reasons straight.

Do I need to spam all of the RIGHT WING OP-ED PIECES in here agreeing with the fact that the reasons have changes, and now the expectations and promises are even moot ??????????????


Do tell us all, what were the reasons you've known since 2003 Warpig.

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I always figured Phil had some sort of speech impediment in real life....and he was just being trying to type how he speaks for us..
You are very right, LM. I try, butt stalkers are introverted folks who s-s-studder and are s-s-shy and mmmake mmmsitakes, 'cause stalkers are humman beeings, t2oo.

I have had dis studdering problemo since i fir1st began stalking. STalking actually r-relaxes mme.

Thank yoo f4or def-f-fending m-mme, Lounge M-Machine. *sniff*

Yoo are RITE ON~!


=PptS
:spank:

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Phil, if you had a serious response, I just might take you seriously. :D

But I just can't.

:gulp:
Yer loss, sucka.:D


=PtS=
:spank:

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Do tell us all, what were the reasons you've known since 2003 Warpig.
Oooooooooh, I'm w-waitin' f4or d-dis answer from w-w-warpig.

I c-can almost s-stop s-studdering.:D


:spank:

Warham
08-18-2005, 03:16 PM
Sheehan vs. Sheehan

President Bush might have a few more allies in his stalemate with activist Cindy Sheehan - Sheehan's family.

"My kids and I feel like we've had two losses: Casey and now our wife and mother," Cindy's estranged husband, Patrick Sheehan, tells People magazine. "The kids are angry and lonely for her." His wife has been camped outside Bush's ranch in Crawford, Tex., since Aug. 6, hoping to talk to the President about the death of her soldier son, Casey, in Iraq.

Son Andrew, 21, adds: "I think she should come home."

academic punk
08-18-2005, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Sheehan vs. Sheehan

President Bush might have a few more allies in his stalemate with activist Cindy Sheehan - Sheehan's family.

"My kids and I feel like we've had two losses: Casey and now our wife and mother," Cindy's estranged husband, Patrick Sheehan, tells People magazine. "The kids are angry and lonely for her." His wife has been camped outside Bush's ranch in Crawford, Tex., since Aug. 6, hoping to talk to the President about the death of her soldier son, Casey, in Iraq.

Son Andrew, 21, adds: "I think she should come home."

No one ever said fighitng for a cause was easy.

BTW, MLKs family were known for saying similar things.

Warham
08-18-2005, 03:23 PM
Posted on Thu, Aug. 18, 2005

Sheehan is believing
A stand that lacks moral authority


Jonah Goldberg

is a nationally syndicated columnist

'Cindy Sheehan, the mother of Casey Sheehan, an American soldier who was killed in Iraq... "

That's the sentence Cindy Sheehan and her increasingly lugubrious PR machine want every news story about her to begin with. Nobody likes the idea of criticizing a woman who has lost her son in such circumstances. The hope has been that the high wall of Mrs. Sheehan's "moral authority" will allow her to say whatever she pleases and that nobody will say boo about it for fear of seeming insensitive to what must be unimaginable anguish. Still, even some of her supporters must realize that her anguish has caused her to find meaning in a wildly partisan, orchestrated publicity stunt.

What's interesting, to me at least, is that Sheehan represents simply the latest installment in a long, nasty, desperate ideological campaign - and one that demonstrates the logical limits of identity politics.

Anybody who's been on the receiving end of the "chickenhawk" epithet knows what I'm getting at. Various definitions of chickenhawk are out there, but the gist - as if you didn't know - is "coward" or "unpatriotic hypocrite." The accusation is less an argument than an insult.

It's also a form of bullying. The intent is to say, "You have no right to support the war since you haven't served or signed up." It's a way to get supporters of the war in Iraq, the war on terror, or the President simply to shut up.

But, there's a benefit of a doubt to be given. There are many people - I know because I've argued with lots of them - who don't believe the "chickenhawk" thing is intellectually unserious.

Obsessed with "authenticity" and the evil of hypocrisy - as they see it - they think the message and the messenger are inextricably linked. Two plus two is four only if the right person says so. We hear this logic most often from adherents of identity politics, who give more weight to the statements of women, African Americans, Jews, and others for the sole reason that they were uttered by people born female, black, Jewish or whatever. People who grew up poor are supposed to have a more "authentic" perspective on economic policy than people who didn't, and so on.

Don't get me wrong - experience is important and useful, including the experiences that come from being black or gay or otherwise a member of the Coalition of the Oppressed. But valuable experience confers knowledge; it doesn't beatify. And identity isn't an iron cage. It is not insurmountable. And, at the end of the day, arguments must stand on their own merits, regardless of who delivers them.

Indeed, the notion that there is a single, authentic black perspective strikes me as fundamentally racist in its essentialism. And the idea that women adhere to a female logic unique to them strikes me as definitionally sexist. But the left doesn't care, because this perspective is indispensable for attacking "inauthentic" blacks or other supposed traitors. What was it that Harry Belafonte said the other week? That blacks who work for the Bush administration are, in effect, "house slaves," akin to the high-ranking Jews in the Hitler regime (never mind that no such Jews existed).

The chickenhawk charge is the misapplication of the same faulty logic. There are war heroes who oppose the war, and there are war heroes who supported it. John Keegan is the greatest living military historian, and he never saw a day of battle. George McGovern flew 35 combat missions in World War II. I'll take Keegan's guidance on military matters over McGovern's any day.

Recently, desperate Democrats championed the campaign of Paul Hackett, an Iraq war veteran running for Congress in Ohio, because he opposed the war and called the president an S.O.B. Just as others had done before with Wesley Clark and Max Cleland, Hackett's supporters suddenly declared that their hand-picked veteran had the indisputable, irrefutable moral authority to say what other anti-Bush liberals had been saying all along. But how does that make the content of those charges any more - or for that matter, less - accurate?

Maureen Dowd wrote of Sheehan in The New York Times this week that "the moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute." This is either a sincere but meaningless platitude or it's a charge made in grotesquely bad faith. Surely Dowd recognizes that there are a great many mothers of fallen soldiers who believe the war was worthwhile. Is their moral authority absolute, too? If so, then moral authority can't really be very relevant to public debates. Or does Dowd claim that only those moms of the fallen who say things critical of George Bush have absolute moral authority?

If that's the case, does Dowd truly believe - as Sheehan seems to - that this war was fought to line the pockets of Texas oilmen and to serve the interests of a treasonous Zionist cabal inside the United States? I think that's batty, and I'd need proof to believe it. Sheehan's word isn't good enough for me on anything - save the fact that she loved her son.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/12409723.htm

academic punk
08-18-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by FORD
EVERY American citizen deserves an explanation from these sons of bitches as to why they are throwing away hundreds of billions of dollars, the entire economy, the lives of almost 2000 troops, and the credibility of this nation itself, all over a FUCKING LIE!!!

uh...I'll give you all the others, except for the "throwing away billions" (a matter of perspective)...and the economy IS improving...

academic punk
08-18-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Posted on Thu, Aug. 18, 2005

Sheehan is believing


Nobody likes the idea of criticizing a woman who has lost her son in such circumstances.


That being said, the rest of ths article will go ahead and do just that.

And by the way, that title? Sheehan is believing? That is one of the two very worst puns I have ever encountered in my life.

And I work in advertising!!!

Warham
08-18-2005, 03:32 PM
Did you read it?

academic punk
08-18-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Did you read it?

It actually does have some moments and insights - if you go back to the beginning of this thread, I said similar things in terms of who she's aligned herself with and the agenda that they have, and the using her as a vessel for it.

The Max Clelland comment is patently flase. Clelland was called "unpatriotic" and someone who doesn't understand the war on terror.

Please. The guy knows war every minute of every day.

The Maureen Dowd comments are taken out of context, but close enough at the end of the day. Still, it's mixing two seperate subjects, b/c it's an easier, but only peripherally relevant reference.

LoungeMachine
08-18-2005, 03:46 PM
WHERE'S THE REASONS YOU KNEW ABOUT GOING BACK TO 2003 WARPIG?????????????

SHOW US HOW THE OBJECTIVE THEN, IS THE SAME NOW.


THIS WAS A WAR BASED ON LIES AND AGENDAS WHICH HAD NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH 9/11 OR ANY WAR ON TERROR, AND YOU KNOW IT.

Warham
08-18-2005, 04:11 PM
Not if you are going to talk to me with such disrespect.

I'll give you the answer you believe in already. The same one Cindy Sheehan wants to hear from Bush.

'It's all about Halliburton, of course.'

Phil theStalker
08-18-2005, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Not if you are going to talk to me with such disrespect.

I'll give you the answer you believe in already. The same one Cindy Sheehan wants to hear from Bush.

'It's all about Halliburton, of course.'
Okay..

No mo' dissin' Warham..

Aff yoo take a look at wot he's saying, he has a lot t2o say..

Please cuntinue Warham, bef4ore da next "state sponsored" (i.e., CIA, U.S.) terrorist event..


:spank:

DrMaddVibe
08-18-2005, 05:44 PM
Sheehan left the ranch!

blueturk
08-18-2005, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Sheehan left the ranch!

Ah yes, the Orwellian sheep strategy! Don't tell why she left, and don't leave a link! Just say she left!

"See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." —George W. Bush, Greece, N.Y., May 24, 2005

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9001021/

Antiwar mom leaving camp to aid ailing mother
Sheehan departing protest near Bush ranch after mother suffers stroke

Updated: 5:55 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005
CRAWFORD, Texas - The grieving woman who started an anti-war demonstration near President Bush’s ranch nearly two weeks ago said Thursday she was leaving because her mother had a stroke.

Cindy Sheehan told reporters she had just received the phone call and was leaving immediately to be with her 74-year-old mother at a Los Angeles hospital.

“I’ll be back as soon as possible if it’s possible,” she said. After hugging some of her supporters, Sheehan and her sister, Deedee Miller, got in a van and left for the Waco airport about 20 miles away.


Sheehan, whose 24-year-old son Casey died in Iraq, said the makeshift campsite off the road leading to Bush’s ranch would continue. The camp has grown to more than 100 people, including many relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq.

Sheehan had vowed to remain there until Bush met with her or until his month-long vacation ended. Her protest inspired candlelight vigils across the country Wednesday night.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said earlier Thursday that the president said Sheehan had a right to protest but that he did not plan to change his schedule and meet with her.

Two top Bush administration officials talked to Sheehan the day she started her camp, and she and other families met with Bush shortly after her son’s death and before she became a vocal opponent of the war.

Michelle Mulkey, a spokewoman for Sheehan, who lives in Vacaville, Calif., said Sheehan hoped to be back in Texas within 24 to 48 hours. Mulkey said Sheehan’s mother, Shirley Miller, was in a hospital emergency room and Sheehan didn’t yet know how serious her condition was.

scorpioboy33
08-18-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Get your kicks out of that peabrain, because typographical errors and keystroke mistakes are about all you have on me. Now go eat your Froot Loops.

Twit. Double Twit. :cool:

:gulp:

come on...no need to turn into a didshit pal ;)

blueturk
08-18-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Warham
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.

I hope you wrote them down, because you sure as hell won't be able to remember all of them without some notes. I'm waiting...


"I was proud the other day when both Republicans and Democrats stood with me in the Rose Garden to announce their support for a clear statement of purpose: you disarm, or we will." —George W. Bush, speaking about Saddam Hussein, Manchester, N.H., Oct. 5, 2002

LoungeMachine
08-19-2005, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Not if you are going to talk to me with such disrespect.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

whatever.

To borrow a line from BBB, need a tissue?

Why not just admit you made a ridiculous boast, and you actually CAN'T list the reasons you claim from 2003 that have never changed.


such direspect? puh-leeze.

Funny how your skin thinned out so quickly.


We agree on just about EVERYTHING BUT politics, you and I. But forgive me if this seems harsh, but I HAVE NO respect for your continued support of this administration and it's LIES and MANIPULATIONS.

Don't even bother answering now, I don't think I could stand reading the spin.

:cool:

Phil theStalker
08-19-2005, 02:11 AM
Yeh, it did take Warham a long time to give up answering his boast.

But look, aff tit wasn't f4or Warham and the rest we'd be patting each other on da back wit noboody t2o boo and heckle:)


:spank:

blueturk
08-19-2005, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Phil theStalker
Yeh, it did take Warham a long time to give up answering his boast.


I think Warham's mouth wrote a check that Dubya's bullshit won't allow him to cash...

"If you don't stand for anything, you don't stand for anything! If you don't stand for something, you don't stand for anything!" —George W. Bush, Bellevue Community College, Nov. 2, 2000

DrMaddVibe
08-19-2005, 07:37 AM
CRAWFORD, Texas - Although their leader had just departed because of a family emergency, anti-war demonstrators here didn't miss a beat, marching closer to
President Bush's ranch to deliver handwritten letters.
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The protest camp outside Bush's ranch resumed its activities Thursday shortly after Cindy Sheehan — whose 24-year-old son Casey died in
Iraq — learned that her 74-year-old mother had a stroke in Los Angeles and made preparations to leave.

"I'll be back as soon as possible, if it's possible," Sheehan said before hugging tearful supporters and heading for the airport.

After arriving at the hospital in Los Angeles where her mother is being treated, Sheehan reiterated the reason for her protest in Crawford.

"I want to know what the noble cause is that my son died for like (Bush) always says," she told reporters. "I don't believe dying in a war of aggression on a country that's no threat to the United States of America is a noble cause."

On her daily blog, Sheehan wrote that she hoped to return to Crawford before the end of August. She had refused to leave until Bush met with her or his monthlong vacation ended. Bush is scheduled to return to Washington on Sept. 3.

Sheehan, of Vacaville, Calif., started the makeshift campsite Aug. 6 in ditches along the road to Bush's ranch. Since then it has grown to more than 100 people, including many relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq, and hundreds more visitors who don't spend the night.

About 150 protesters marched two miles down the road to the checkpoint outside Bush's ranch Thursday with letters urging first lady
Laura Bush to persuade her husband to meet with Sheehan.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said earlier Thursday that the president said Sheehan had a right to protest but that he did not plan to change his schedule and meet with her.

Two top Bush administration officials talked to Sheehan the day she started her camp, and she and other families met with Bush shortly after her son's death and before she became a vocal opponent of the war.

FBI whistleblower Coleen Rowley and Sen. Becky Lourey, a Minnesota lawmaker whose son died in Iraq, joined the protesters Thursday and planned to stay for a few days. Rowley said going to war was a mistake because the link between Iraq and al-Qaida was exaggerated.

Rowley, now retired, gained national attention after criticizing the FBI for ignoring her pleas before the Sept. 11 attacks to investigate terrorism suspect Zacarias Moussaoui more aggressively.

Meanwhile, a conservative California-based group, Move America Forward, has produced a national television commercial to say Sheehan does not speak for military families. Group founder Deborah Johns, whose son is a Marine and is featured in the ad, said she believes Sheehan's crusade discredits the soldiers serving in Iraq.

"Cindy Sheehan certainly doesn't speak for me, our military families or our men and women serving in Iraq and
Afghanistan," Johns says in the ad.

___

Associated Press writer Beth Fouhy in San Francisco contributed to this report.

DrMaddVibe
08-19-2005, 07:39 AM
"IF its possible"?

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go

To right the unrightable wrong
(1)To be better far than you are(1)
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest, to follow that star
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far
(2)To be willing to give when there's no more to give (2)
(3)To be willing to die so that honor and justice may live (3)
And I know if I'll only be true to this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm when I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star

academic punk
08-19-2005, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
"IF its possible"?



Yeah...if it's possible. Her mother had a stroke. Any idea what the mortality is for 74 year olds who have strokes?

LoungeMachine
08-19-2005, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
Yeah...if it's possible. Her mother had a stroke. Any idea what the mortality is for 74 year olds who have strokes?


You really expect a "compassionate conservative" to give a shit?

academic punk
08-19-2005, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
You really expect a "compassionate conservative" to give a shit?

Point taken.

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan. White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said earlier Thursday that the president said Sheehan had a right to protest but that he did not plan to change his schedule and meet with her.


Yeah, he's too busy falling off bicycles, choking on pretzels, and shootin' game on his "working" vacation...

All kidding aside, the Bush administration has handled the Sheehan situation horribly. It's a PR nightmare for them. If he had met with her privately at the outset of this thing it would have gone away quietly. A rare example of Rove not thinking things through.

academic punk
08-19-2005, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yeah, he's too busy falling off bicycles, choking on pretzels, and shootin' game on his "working" vacation...

All kidding aside, the Bush administration has handled the Sheehan situation horribly. It's a PR nightmare for them. If he had met with her privately at the outset of this thing it would have gone away quietly. A rare example of Rove not thinking things through.

I think it would have been a disaster either way.

No answer he gave to her would have been satisfactory, nothing would have appeased her loss (how could it??), and, hey, this IS BUsh we're talking about.

Karl was justifiably concerned that Bush would be his usual inarticulate self without the benefit of his speechwriters and a soundbyte, and REALLY say something wrong.

and what's this shit about "a rare example of Rove not thinking things through"? I can think of two other examples of such right off the top of my head:

Outting Valerie Plame
Lying to Fitzgerald

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
I think it would have been a disaster either way.

No answer he gave to her would have been satisfactory, nothing would have appeased her loss (how could it??), and, hey, this IS BUsh we're talking about.

Karl was justifiably concerned that Bush would be his usual inarticulate self without the benefit of his speechwriters and a soundbyte, and REALLY say something wrong.

I see your point, but I disagree. It would have been a private meeting, no media, the same thing he has done with other unsupportive families of victims in the past. Even if he was inarticulate (that's a given), there would be no one there to report it, other than Sheehan herself. But Bush would have gotten points for meeting with her, and she would lose credibility if she kept hounding him after that. And the public would lose interest. A big part of what is keeping this issue in the headlines is because many people can't understand why a man on vacation can't take a few minutes to meet with a grieving mother, especially when she's making the extreme sacrifice of camping outside for weeks. He has time to drive past her for a fundraising dinner, but not to speak with her. Come on, this is an absolute DISASTER from a PR perspective. Meeting with her only could have improved it for him.

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
and what's this shit about "a rare example of Rove not thinking things through"? I can think of two other examples of such right off the top of my head:

Outting Valerie Plame
Lying to Fitzgerald

I meant from a political point of view, in terms of protecting his boss. Rove has always been very good at counseling the president on how to avoid negative press; always staying one step ahead of the opposition. The Plame gaffe was more of a private blunder, and I have to admit I'm unfamiliar with the Fitzgerald thing. Rove makes mistakes for sure, but he's generally an extremely skilled political adviser.

academic punk
08-19-2005, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I see your point, but I disagree. It would have been a private meeting, no media, the same thing he has done with other unsupportive families of victims in the past. Even if he was inarticulate (that's a given), there would be no one there to report it, other than Sheehan herself. But Bush would have gotten points for meeting with her, and she would lose credibility if she kept hounding him after that. And the public would lose interest. A big part of what is keeping this issue in the headlines is because many people can't understand why a man on vacation can't take a few minutes to meet with a grieving mother, especially when she's making the extreme sacrifice of camping outside for weeks. He has time to drive past her for a fundraising dinner, but not to speak with her. Come on, this is an absolute DISASTER from a PR perspective. Meeting with her only could have improved it for him.


Is it a disaster? Just look at the Bush supporters on this forum alone: MADDVIBE, Warham, BBB, nothing's changed at all for any of them.

Or for those of us who've been critical of the administration all along, really.

academic punk
08-19-2005, 11:51 AM
Though this DOES have the stink of the King who is too high and mighty to be bothered to speak with the peasants in the courtyard below...

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
Is it a disaster? Just look at the Bush supporters on this forum alone: MADDVIBE, Warham, BBB, nothing's changed at all for any of them.

Or for those of us who've been critical of the administration all along, really.

I think if the Bush supporters you mentioned are honest with themselves, they will admit that Bush could have avoided some of his current PR woes if he had just met with her early on.

I have no evidence to prove it, but I think there is at least SOME correlation between Sheehan's fight and Bush's dropping poll numbers.

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by academic punk
Though this DOES have the stink of the King who is too high and mighty to be bothered to speak with the peasants in the courtyard below...

Yup, that's exactly the image it conveys. And the fact that he's on vacation at his ranch in Crawford is important too. If he was back in Washington, I don't think it would have quite the same effect.

academic punk
08-19-2005, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yup, that's exactly the image it conveys. And the fact that he's on vacation at his ranch in Crawford is important too. If he was back in Washington, I don't think it would have quite the same effect.

Good point.

This IS a wel-coordinated and well-timed PR stunt, indeed.

LoungeMachine
08-19-2005, 01:21 PM
I'm with GS on this one.

They fucked it up per usual.

Chimp wouldn't have met w/ her one on one anyway. He would have NEEDED someone next to him.

Remember him demanding Cheney be with him when speaking with the 9/11 Commish ???????

This guy is a fucking DOLT

BigBadBrian
08-19-2005, 02:30 PM
Geez. :rolleyes:

If he met with this lady at his ranch, every Tom, Dick, and Jane with a need to meet with the President would be lining up down there.

Get a grip, people.

:gulp:

Warham
08-19-2005, 04:01 PM
Only 35% of Americans approve of Cindy Sheehan anyway, according to up-to-the-minute polling data.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Cindy%20Sheehan.htm

She's a miserable failure to the DNC. They need to get another story.

Let's see:

Bill Burkett - Check (Rathergate)
Valarie Plame - Check (Sent check to Gore campaign for $1000: Husband has axe to grind with Bush)
Cindy Sheehan - Check (General back in LA taken care of mother)

Interesting tidbit in the poll:

Among those with family members who have served in the military, Sheehan is viewed favorably by 31% and unfavorably by 48%.

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Geez. :rolleyes:

If he met with this lady at his ranch, every Tom, Dick, and Jane with a need to meet with the President would be lining up down there.

Get a grip, people.

:gulp:

I agree that it's too late for him to do this NOW.

But, he could have done it in the beginning and the Sheehan story never would have gotten anywhere near as big as it is now.

aesop
08-19-2005, 04:11 PM
I think conservatives LIKE this story keeping headlines. Esp. since the well-reported 180 degree turn-around from her story a year go.

The M.O. for Repubs over the last several years has been to let Libs keep talking until they hang themselves. I'm sure they saw no reason to change that now.

Warham
08-19-2005, 04:13 PM
You have a keep observation there, aesop.

academic punk
08-19-2005, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Only 35% of Americans approve of Cindy Sheehan anyway, according to up-to-the-minute polling data.

She's a miserable failure to the DNC. They need to get another story.


.


Really? That's an interesting definition of failure you have...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20050817-2018-ca-peacemom.html

CRAWFORD, Texas – Hundreds of candlelight vigils calling for an end to the war in Iraq lit up the night Wednesday, part of a national effort spurred by one mother's anti-war demonstration near President Bush's ranch.
The vigils were urged by Cindy Sheehan, who has become the icon of the anti-war movement since she started a protest Aug. 6 in memory of her son Casey, who died in Iraq last year.

Sheehan says she will remain outside the president's ranch until he meets with her and other grieving families, or until his monthlong vacation there ends.

Bush has said he sympathizes with Sheehan but has made no indication he will meet with her. Two top Bush administration officials talked to Sheehan the day she started her camp, and she and other families had met with Bush shortly after her son's death.

On Wednesday, more than 1,600 vigils were planned from coast to coast by liberal advocacy groups MoveOn.org Political Action, TrueMajority and Democracy for America. A large vigil was also set at Paris' Peace Wall, a glass monument near the Eiffel Tower that says "peace" in 32 languages.

As the sun set in Crawford, about 100 protesters lit candles and placed them in plastic cups to shield them from the breeze. They gathered around a wooden, flag-draped coffin at Sheehan's growing camp, about a mile from the Bush ranch.

In San Francisco, about 200 demonstrators showed up in a cold wind in front of the federal building to hold a vigil. A flutist played a tune as commuter traffic sped by and demonstrators huddled to keep their candles lit inside small paper cups. Some of the protesters held signs that read "Meet with Cindy" and "End the Iraq war."

One of the demonstrators, Anne Roesler, of San Jose, has a son who returned from a deployment in Mosul about four months ago.

"The only thing our troops are doing over there now is keeping themselves alive," she said. "It's time for George Bush to listen to people like Cindy."

Nooshin Razani, a 31-year-old Iranian American from San Francisco, said Bush needed to answer important questions like why the United States went to Iraq. Razani's 19-year-old brother died while serving as a medic for the U.S. Army in Iraq.

"I never want you to experience what my family experienced over the last year," she said.

In Concord, N.H., about 150 people stood shoulder-to-shoulder Wednesday outside the Statehouse holding candles and signs supporting Sheehan.

"My son is 26. It could've been him," said Karen Braz, 50, who held a pink votive cup and a sign reading "Moms for Peace."

A few hundred people gathered near Philadelphia's Independence Hall, straining to hear remarks by the parent of another soldier killed in Iraq.

"This war must stop," said Al Zappala, 65, whose 30-year-old son, Sgt. Sherwood Baker, died in an explosion in Baghdad in April 2004. "There are over 1,800 families that have heard that knock on the door."

Some critics say Sheehan is exploiting her son's death to promote a left-wing agenda supported by her and groups with which she associates. They say scores of Americans, including relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq, support Bush and his plans to keep troops there.

FreeRepublic.com, which holds rallies to support troops and to counter anti-war demonstrations, planned a pro-Bush rally Wednesday night at the same time and same Washington, D.C., park as a candlelight vigil there.

"For us, the organizers of the vigil are phony-baloney, betraying the sacrifices that those, men and women make in Iraq, by demanding that we pull our troops out now and leave Iraq to go to hell," said Kristinn Taylor, co-leader of the group's Washington, D.C., chapter. "This is a publicity stunt."

Some 200 people joined a peace vigil in Cincinnati's Fountain Square. Many carried candles, but were told not to light them because of potential harm to the downtown landmark. Demonstrators softly sang "Give Peace A Chance" and lined one side of the square with signs, drawing honks of support from some passing motorists.

A banner bearing the name, age, rank, hometown and date of death of all Americans killed in Iraq and Afghanistan was unrolled at a vigil in Charleston, W.Va. – stretching the length of a city block.

"Our pastors and preachers need to hear from us," said one of the speakers, Mary Ellen O'Farrell. "Ask your pastor to preach it from the pulpit. This war does not meet the criteria for a just war."

Along with candles and flags, some of the 300 people who gathered at a park in Nashville, Tenn., brought signs and banners of protest. One banner read, "Thank you for your courage Cindy."

About 200 people attended a rally and candlelight vigil on the south-side steps of the state Capitol in Oklahoma City. Marie Evans said it was a chance for those opposing the war to let their voices be heard.

"There was no question in my mind that we needed to make a statement in Oklahoma, which is a very conservative state," said Evans, who carried a sign that read "Their blood is on your hands."

In Hawaii, Kalihi Valley resident Charmaine Crockett invited scores of people to her hilltop house to light candles in sympathy for Sheehan.

"I'm very moved by one person making a difference," Crockett said. "This isn't an anti-war protest. The beauty of it lies in its silence ... And I never expected it to get this large."

Outside the state Capitol in Madison, Wis., Carol Berglund, 56, had a sign attached to the back of her bicycle reading: "It's time for peace. Stop the war."

"I don't think we ever should have gone there," she said. "I think it's immoral to be the starters of a war, to be the aggressors."

Warham
08-19-2005, 04:36 PM
Well, Democrats think Bush is a failure and he has a 44% approval rating.

So what does that make Sheehan? A miserable failure? An extreme failure?

Yeah, we had a vigil in a nearby town. Only 40 people showed up out of a possible 20,000+. It's going over big time, let me tell ya.

Nickdfresh
08-19-2005, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Sheehan left the ranch!

But BUSH is still there while AMERICAN troops are dying in IRAQ...

Nickdfresh
08-19-2005, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Well, Democrats think Bush is a failure and he has a 44% approval rating.

So what does that make Sheehan? A miserable failure? An extreme failure?

Yeah, we had a vigil in a nearby town. Only 40 people showed up out of a possible 20,000+. It's going over big time, let me tell ya.

Why would they think she's a failure? the majority agree with her!

academic punk
08-19-2005, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Well, Democrats think Bush is a failure and he has a 44% approval rating.

So what does that make Sheehan? A miserable failure? An extreme failure?

Yeah, we had a vigil in a nearby town. Only 40 people showed up out of a possible 20,000+. It's going over big time, let me tell ya.

It's snowballing. As you've said, in a different context, small steps. I'm not sure how the rasmuessen poll gathered its findings, but, hey, she's on the news every night, anyone who reads a paper or the watches TV in this country knows who she is and her cause.

BTW, here in NYC, there were at least a thousand people gathered in Union Square alone. I know that there were additional gatherings at Central park (much bigger) and Battery park (smaller).

I know the Union Sq number b/c I was there. It was pretty beautiful.

(HEY! Whatever happened to your "archbishop of photoshop title"???)

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Well, Democrats think Bush is a failure and he has a 44% approval rating.

So what does that make Sheehan? A miserable failure? An extreme failure?

Yeah, we had a vigil in a nearby town. Only 40 people showed up out of a possible 20,000+. It's going over big time, let me tell ya.

Your callousness is telling. So you have no problem attacking the mother of a slain soldier?

Incidentally, your comparison is silly. The opinion about Sheehan is pretty evenly mixed, with 35% in favor and 38% against. What about the remaining 30%? Who knows.

We definitely know in Bush's case. 44% favorable and 55% unfavorable. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

Why do you continue to defend this idiot, War?

academic punk
08-19-2005, 04:51 PM
And besides from that, in the first place, SHEEHAN ISN'T RUNNING FOR ANYTHING.

WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT HER APPROVAL RATING IS???

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by academic punk
And besides from that, in the first place, SHEEHAN ISN'T RUNNING FOR ANYTHING.

WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT HER APPROVAL RATING IS???

LOL! Good point.

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Why would they think she's a failure? the majority agree with her!

35% is a majority? Only for liberals.

By the way, Nick, do you agree with her that this war is all about Israel and is being run by a Jewish cabal in Washington D.C.?

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Your callousness is telling. So you have no problem attacking the mother of a slain soldier?

Incidentally, your comparison is silly. The opinion about Sheehan is pretty evenly mixed, with 35% in favor and 38% against. What about the remaining 30%? Who knows.

We definitely know in Bush's case. 44% favorable and 55% unfavorable. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

Why do you continue to defend this idiot, War?

Nope, no problem attacking her viewpoints whatsoever.

She isn't off-limits just because her son died in the War effort.

She's said all kinds of inane things, yet for liberals, she's off the hook.

Like her comments about this war being run by a Jewish cabal. It's insanity.

I'm surprised the rest of the family hasn't tried to legally get a divorce from her.

Nickdfresh
08-19-2005, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Warham
35% is a majority? Only for liberals.

By the way, Nick, do you agree with her that this war is all about Israel and is being run by a Jewish cabal in Washington D.C.?

Whose poll? Gimme the link on that one...:rolleyes:

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:12 PM
I posted the link above.

Guitar Shark
08-19-2005, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Nope, no problem attacking her viewpoints whatsoever.

She isn't off-limits just because her son died in the War effort.


Yet if someone questions this war, then you accuse that person of not "supporting the troops." Neocon logic -- works every time!

By the way, did you read that Rasmussen poll about the president's approval rating?

"Friday August 19, 2005--Forty-four percent (44%) of American adults approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. That's just one point above the lowest level ever recorded by Rasmussen Reports.

Fifty-five percent (55%) disapprove."

Nickdfresh
08-19-2005, 05:15 PM
August 19, 2005
Poll: Most Blame Cindy Sheehan for High Gas Prices

Sheehan_thumbAccording to a recent poll, most Americans place the blame for skyrocketing prices at the pump squarely at the feet of anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan. The poll found that Americans were more likely to blame Mrs. Sheehan for their gasoline woes than they were illegal aliens, homosexuals, child molesters or Democrats.

Prices said to be highest within 100 mile radius of Mrs. Sheehan's protest

Link (http://swiftreport.blogs.com/news/2005/08/poll_most_blame.html)

Well, according to this poll, SHEEHAN is to blame for everything!

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Yet if someone questions this war, then you accuse that person of not "supporting the troops." Neocon logic -- works every time!

By the way, did you read that Rasmussen poll about the president's approval rating?

"Friday August 19, 2005--Forty-four percent (44%) of American adults approve of the way George W. Bush is performing his role as President. That's just one point above the lowest level ever recorded by Rasmussen Reports.

Fifty-five percent (55%) disapprove."

Nothing wrong with questioning the war. It's our right as Americans to question the war. Calling Bush a 'murderer' and saying Jews are running the war is beyond 'questioning'. That's just being out and out idiotic. It's similar to calling the troops who came back from the Vietnam War 'babykillers'.

There are people who question the war who don't resort to tactics like that.

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:25 PM
There's something wrong when you've got David Duke on your side...

http://www.davidduke.com/index_print.php?p=350

FORD
08-19-2005, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Warham
There's something wrong when you've got David Duke on your side...

http://www.davidduke.com/index_print.php?p=350

Especially when DuKKKe's entire position is based on something she never fucking said in the first place

And we all know it would be just like KKKarl Rove to call up David DuKKKe and get his sheet wearing ass mixed up in this.

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:29 PM
She wrote it, because the friend she claimed wrote the e-mail said that he didn't write it. He put it back on her.

Nice friend, huh?

Nickdfresh
08-19-2005, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by Warham
There's something wrong when you've got David Duke on your side...

http://www.davidduke.com/index_print.php?p=350

So all REPUBLICANs are wrong huh? Couldn't have said it better myself!;)

Warham
08-19-2005, 05:33 PM
No, but Duke is.

DrMaddVibe
08-19-2005, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I think if the Bush supporters you mentioned are honest with themselves, they will admit that Bush could have avoided some of his current PR woes if he had just met with her early on.

I have no evidence to prove it, but I think there is at least SOME correlation between Sheehan's fight and Bush's dropping poll numbers.

He already did meet with her.

He's the President not Santa!

Now she's changed her tune because she's a bitter woman with nothing left to gain and nothing left to lose.

blueturk
08-19-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by Warham
The description only changes to you liberals.

I've known the reasons why we went into Iraq since 2003.

Still waiting for those reasons, Warham....

Warham
08-19-2005, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
Still waiting....

I already revealed why I'm not going to discuss it further.

Google is a great resource. Use it.

blueturk
08-19-2005, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I already revealed why I'm not going to discuss it further.

Google is a great resource. Use it.

You didn't reveal shit. Your expertise at avoiding the question is worthy of your leader. But I did find this on Google. Sound about right to you?

Excerpt from "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998):

While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.

Warham
08-19-2005, 07:48 PM
I revealed enough for you.

Take it or leave it, commie lib.