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BigBadBrian
08-17-2005, 03:52 PM
Bush v. Rumsfeld

From the August 15 / August 22, 2005 issue: The president knows we have to win the war in Iraq . . . Rumsfeld doesn't.
by William Kristol
08/15/2005, Volume 010, Issue 45


LAST WEEK IN THESE PAGES we called attention to the John-Kerry-like attempt of some Bush advisers, led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to abandon the term "war on terror." These advisers had been, as the New York Times reported, going out of their way to avoid "formulations using the word 'war.'" The great effort that we had all simplemindedly been calling a war was now dubbed by Rumsfeld the "global struggle against violent extremism." And the solution to this struggle was, according to Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, speaking here as Rumsfeld's cat's-paw, "more diplomatic, more economic, more political than it is military."

Now, it is of course true enough that the "war on terror" isn't simply a military struggle. What war is? There is a critical political dimension to the war on terror--which the president, above all, has understood.That's why he has placed such emphasis on promoting liberal democracy. But there is also, to say the least, a critical military dimension to this struggle. And President Bush sensed that this Rumsfeldian change in nomenclature was an attempt to duck responsibility for that critical military dimension.

The president would have none of it. This past Monday, announcing John Bolton's recess appointment as U.N. ambassador, the president went out of his way to say that "this post is too important to leave vacant any longer, especially during a war." That same day, at a high-level White House meeting, President Bush reportedly commented, with some asperity, that no one had checked

with him as to whether he wanted to move beyond the phrase "war on terror." As far as he was concerned, he reminded his staff, we are fighting a war. On Wednesday, speaking in Texas, the president used the word "war" 15 times, and the phrase "war on terror" five. "Make no mistake about it," the president exclaimed, "we are at war. We're at war with an enemy that attacked us on September the 11th, 2001. We're at war against an enemy that, since that day, has continued to kill." And on Thursday, in case his advisers hadn't been paying attention, the president said it one more time: "We're at war."

So we are. And Iraq is, as the president said Wednesday, "the latest battlefield in the war on terror." It is also the central battlefield in that war. And so, the president added, "I hear all the time, 'Well, when are you bringing the troops home?' And my answer to you: 'As soon as possible, but not before the mission is complete.'" As the president said Thursday, "We will stay the course. We will complete the job in Iraq."

Or will we? The president seems determined to complete the job. Is his defense secretary? In addition to trying to abandon the term "war on terror," Rumsfeld and some of his subordinates have spent an awful lot of time in recent weeks talking about withdrawing troops from Iraq--and before the job is complete.

Until a few months ago, Bush administration officials refused to speculate on a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. They criticized those who did talk about withdrawing, arguing that such talk would encourage the terrorists, discourage our friends, and make it harder to win over waverers who wanted to be assured that we would be there to help. The administration's line was simply that we were going to stay the course in Iraq, do what it takes, and win.

The president still tends to say this. But not Defense Department civilian officials, who have recently been willing to indicate a desire to get out, and sooner rather than later. After all, Rumsfeld has said, insurgencies allegedly take a decade or so to defeat. What's more, our presence gives those darned Iraqi allies of ours excuses not to step up to the plate. So let's get a government elected under the new Iraqi constitution, and accelerate our plans to get the troops home. As Rumsfeld said Thursday, "once Iraq is safely in the hands of the Iraqi people and a government that they elect under a new constitution that they are now fashioning, and which should be completed by August 15, our troops will be able to, as the capability of the Iraqi security forces evolve, pass over responsibility to them and then come home." The key "metric" is finding enough Iraqis to whom we can turn over the responsibility for fighting--not defeating the terrorists.

As Newsweek reported last week: "Now the conditions for U.S. withdrawal no longer include a defeated insurgency, Pentagon sources say. The new administration mantra is that the insurgency can be beaten only politically, by the success of Iraq's new government. Indeed, Washington is now less concerned about the insurgents than the unwillingness of Iraq's politicians to make compromises for the sake of national unity. Pentagon planners want to send a spine-stiffening message: the Americans won't be there forever."

But not-so-well-hidden under the pseudo-tough talk of "spine-stiffening" is the inescapable

whiff of weakness and defeatism. Rumsfeld either doesn't believe we can win, or doesn't think we can maintain political support for staying, or doesn't believe winning is worth the cost. So we're getting out, under cover of talking about how "political progress is necessary to defeat the insurgency."

It's of course true that political progress in Iraq is important. And the political progress is heartening. But political progress is not sufficient to defeat the insurgency. There has been no more impressive example of political progress than the January 30 elections. But the insurgency continues.

Furthermore, how likely is political progress if everyone in Iraq decides we're on our way out? The talk from the Defense Department about withdrawing troops from Iraq is doing damage to our chances of political and military progress. The more we talk about getting out, the more our enemies are emboldened, our friends waver and hedge their bets, and various factions decide they may have to fend for themselves and refuse to commit to a new Iraqi army or government.

The fact is that political progress needs to be accompanied by an effective military counterinsurgency. And no matter how good a job we are now doing in training Iraqi troops, it is inconceivable that they will be ready to take over the bulk of the counterinsurgency efforts in the very near future. Further, if an Iraqi troop buildup is accompanied by an American force drawdown--as unfortunately even the president suggested Thursday ("As Iraq stands up, our coalition will stand down")--then we will be able at best to maintain an unacceptable status quo. More likely, since Iraqi troops won't be as capable as American ones, the situation will deteriorate. Then the insurgency could become a full-fledged guerrilla war, inviting a civil war--and we would be faced with a choice between complete and ignominious withdrawal or a recommitment of troops.

The only responsible course is to plan on present troop levels for the foreseeable future and to build up Iraqi troops, so as to have enough total forces to win--to provide security, take the fight to the enemy, reduce infiltration on the borders, and so forth. What the president needs to do now is tell the Pentagon to stop talking about (and planning for) withdrawal, and make sure they are planning for victory.

The president knows we have to win this war. If some of his subordinates are trying to find ways to escape from it, he needs to assert control over them, overrule them, or replace them. Having corrected the silly effort by some of his advisers to say the war on terror is not fundamentally a war, he now has to deal with the more serious effort, emanating primarily from the civilian leadership in the Pentagon, to find an excuse not to pursue victory in Iraq. For if Iraq is the central front in the war on terror, we need to win there. And to win, the president needs a defense secretary who is willing to fight, and able to win.


--William Kristol

LINK (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/923vgvjf.asp)

Hardrock69
08-17-2005, 04:18 PM
Seems like Chimpzilla is not going along with the "plan".

Ya see, the part of the plan involving the Psyops angle, is that you completely appear to be a Hawk at first. WAR THIS, WAR THAT.

And you keep on ramming the message home WAR, WAR, WAR!!!

When the public begins to get fed up with the idea of "WAR!", then the trick is to call it something else, but actually do nothing different.

Yeah sure they are making noise about "Withdrawing troops", etc. because that is what the American public wants to hear right now. It does not necessarily mean they have to do anything about it, just SAY you are doing something about it.

For instance, it was almost a year ago when the story first broke about the lack of body armor, and how the troops were digging through trash heaps to create makeshift armor for vehicles, etc.

Rummy was SAYING that they were addressing the issue. 6 months later when asked about progress on that issue, Rummy just repeated the same thing, that they were "addressing the problem".

Here it is a year later, and they still have not done jack shit, except string the American public AND OUR MILITARY along making false promises.

The same thing will happen with the timetable for withdrawal of troops.

Not only do the American people want to hear that we will "withdraw our troops sonner rather than later", but on a psyops level, it is good for the Iraqi insurgents to hear that as well.

You just watch. They will talk and talk and talk, and months will go by and nothing will happen. Not only that, but watch how Chimp-boy will begin to change his tune.

He is so much of a stupid cowboy, he is going to stick to his guns until the other members of the regime can force him to stop calling it a "War On Terrer" and "Waging War On Terr-ists".

Once he gets on the same page, they will endeavor to call it anything BUT a "war" (as Rummy and friends have already begun to do), but the reality is they will not deviate from their plans, and will stay there as long as they originally intended.

The whole point of calling it something different is simply meant to allow them to achieve their goals with a minimum of public discontent.

LoungeMachine
08-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Thanks Bri.

I never thought I'd be on the same page as Kristol, but last Sunday on FAUX he was great.

Bye Rummy.

BigBadBrian
08-17-2005, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69


For instance, it was almost a year ago when the story first broke about the lack of body armor, and how the troops were digging through trash heaps to create makeshift armor for vehicles, etc.

Rummy was SAYING that they were addressing the issue. 6 months later when asked about progress on that issue, Rummy just repeated the same thing, that they were "addressing the problem".

Here it is a year later, and they still have not done jack shit, except string the American public AND OUR MILITARY along making false promises.



Oh Yeah? Read Below.


Troops' Body Armor Being Replaced Again By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer
Sun Aug 14, 4:46 PM ET

WASHINGTON - For the second time since the Iraq war began, the Pentagon is replacing body armor for U.S. troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, citing a need for better protection that can withstand the strongest of attacks from insurgents, a spokesman said Saturday.

The effort, which began more than a year ago, would upgrade the protection used by more than 500,000 soldiers as well as civilian employees and news reporters. The first upgrade installed ceramic protective plates in the vests and was completed in early 2004.

Defense officials acknowledge the replacement processes have been slowed in part by debates over what is best for the troops. The current replacement is expected to take several more months to complete, said an Army official, who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of information affecting troop safety.

Pentagon spokesman Paul Boyce said Saturday, "Obviously, the body armor is manufactured and tested to exceptionally high standards. This is not the type of technology that is readily available from a local hardware store. It's very exact.

"But as new technologies emerge, the Army works aggressively with the commercial industry to develop, test and produce the best possible equipment for our soldiers. Members of Congress have been briefed, and they have been fully supportive," he said of the latest replacement effort.

Maj. Gen. William D. Catto, head of the Marine Corps Systems Command, said he wasn't happy about the yearlong delay to replace the armor, noting that if defense officials had the capability, they would upgrade the protective garb right away. But he blamed the delay partly on a shortage of the raw material that is needed to strengthen the plates.

The new armor weighs about 18 pounds, about one pound heavier than the original plates, and consists of thicker plates that could shield soldiers against stronger attacks, according to the Army official.

The heavier weight was one factor that hindered a quicker change, the official said, pointing to concerns that soldiers might not be able to move swiftly in the face of an attack. The official declined to release additional information or specifics about how much armor had already been shipped to Iraq.

The New York Times first reported the Pentagon's efforts Saturday on its Web site. It said upgrades will cost at least $160 million. The Times said it withheld details of which insurgent munitions are able to pierce the older body armor to protect troops still using it in the field.
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050814/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/pentagon_body_armor)

Warham
08-17-2005, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Thanks Bri.

I never thought I'd be on the same page as Kristol, but last Sunday on FAUX he was great.

Bye Rummy.

You watch FOX news? There may be hope for you.

BigBadBrian
08-17-2005, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You watch FOX news? There may be hope for you.

I'm calling Al Franken and Paul Krugman and tell them they are in trouble.

:gulp:

Hardrock69
08-17-2005, 08:04 PM
Ohyeah? Read Below

"More than a year ago, Secretary Rumsfeld testified before Congress that the body armor and other military equipment issues hobbling our troops were being addressed. More than six months ago, Secretary Rumsfeld assured the nation that measures were being taken to address the concerns of soldiers like Specialist Thomas Wilson of the Tennessee National Guard, who justifiably wondered why our troops were being forced to sift through trash heaps for makeshift armor for their Humvees. Now, we learn that there has been a year-long delay in getting our troops outfitted with the latest body armor."

The above taken from a letter addressed to President Chimp by Senator Ford:

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25958

Hardrock69
08-17-2005, 08:05 PM
Here is a relevant article from December, 2004:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/203200_armor10.html

Nickdfresh
08-17-2005, 08:06 PM
Oh yeah, so why didn't BUSH accept "RUMSFELD's resignation?"

Hardrock69
08-17-2005, 08:16 PM
By the way, Nick, The Arizona Governor has now declared a state of emergency.

Seems Immigra is fucking off over there as well.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0815borderemergency-ON.html

Hardrock69
08-17-2005, 08:21 PM
And in answer to your question, he has to have as many peons around to blame for criminal wrongdoing as he can when he goes down....

Seshmeister
08-17-2005, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You watch FOX news? There may be hope for you.

http://mushroom.nosox.org/b3ta/fox.jpg

LoungeMachine
08-17-2005, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Warham
You watch FOX news? There may be hope for you.

I enjoy a good laugh each week on Sunday morning.


I imagine BBB is Bill Kristol, and whenever they have on Ann Coulter, I think of you.

;)


Seriously, I watch / listen / read ALL sides. [ albeit some for pure entertainment ]


Sure wish more of your ilk did.....

:cool:

Hardrock69
08-18-2005, 02:07 AM
I am able to see all sides, understand all sides, and sometimes even agree with all sides.

Just depends on what the subject matter is.

As I said somewhere else, I do not vote along party lines. Every candidate/situation is different.

Warham
08-18-2005, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I enjoy a good laugh each week on Sunday morning.


I imagine BBB is Bill Kristol, and whenever they have on Ann Coulter, I think of you.

;)


Seriously, I watch / listen / read ALL sides. [ albeit some for pure entertainment ]


Sure wish more of your ilk did.....

:cool:

I watched enough MSNBC before the last election to last me through the rest of the year.

FORD
08-18-2005, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
By the way, Nick, The Arizona Governor has now declared a state of emergency.

Seems Immigra is fucking off over there as well.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0815borderemergency-ON.html

That's because Chertoff has people like AssProwler guarding our borders, and you know what he spends all of his time doing.

Hardrock69
08-18-2005, 09:48 AM
Jacking off to gay porn that stars JizzyStool & JoeThudner???

:D

BigBadBrian
08-18-2005, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I watched enough MSNBC before the last election to last me through the rest of the year.

Indeed.

I also cruise through the New York Times, LA Times, and Washington Post. News pages and op-ed pages.

I believe that covers the Left.

:gulp:

FORD
08-18-2005, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
Jacking off to gay porn that stars JizzyStool & JoeThudner???

:D

Only if he's not in the scene himself.

FORD
08-18-2005, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Indeed.

I also cruise through the New York Times, LA Times, and Washington Post. News pages and op-ed pages.

I believe that covers the Left.

:gulp:

Who exactly is "the Left" at MSRNC?

Joe Scarborough?
Pat Buchanan?
Aleister Crowley's daughter?
Fucker Carlson?

Warham
08-18-2005, 02:43 PM
How about that twat Chris Matthews for starters. Then we can move onto Ronny Reagan, etc.