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BigBadBrian
08-20-2005, 01:27 PM
2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court
By ANDREW POLLACK
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border with Mexico.

Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to enter the United States illegally.

The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had harmed them.

"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented the immigrants in their lawsuit.

Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important message to those who come to the border to use violence."

The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.

Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the land transfer "ridiculous."

"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American property, make some money from the gringos."

The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles and Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment. Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.

Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva, who are from El Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.

Mr. Mancía, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on a year-to-year basis.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex., in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of hitting Mr. Mancía with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied. The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a blanket and let them go after an hour or so.

The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott; Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.

Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000 against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.

Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr. Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.

Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two immigrants last week.

"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a judgment against my son."

This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.

Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.

He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr. Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.

Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.

In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.

Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.

In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that once held the water tank.

Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr. Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family members.

But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.

Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be crushed if he did.

"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?ei=5065&en=5db095bc71c22a3a&ex=1125115200&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&adxnnlx=1124474860-Bf5weit4I9Xu0tVcs3qexQ&pagewanted=print)

Sarge's Little Helper
08-20-2005, 01:28 PM
2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court
By ANDREW POLLACK
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border with Mexico.

Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to enter the United States illegally.

The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had harmed them.

"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented the immigrants in their lawsuit.

Mr. Dees said the loss of the ranch would "send a pretty important message to those who come to the border to use violence."

The surrender of the ranch comes as the governors of Arizona and New Mexico have declared a state of emergency because of the influx of illegal immigrants and related crime along the border.

Bill Dore, a Douglas resident briefly affiliated with Ranch Rescue who is still active in the border-patrolling Minuteman Project, called the land transfer "ridiculous."

"The illegals are coming over here," Mr. Dore said. "They are getting the American property. Hell, I'd come over, too. Get some American property, make some money from the gringos."

The immigrants getting the ranch, Edwin Alfredo Mancía Gonzáles and Fátima del Socorro Leiva Medina, could not be reached for comment. Kelley Bruner, a lawyer at the law center, said they did not want to speak to the news media but were happy with the outcome.

Ms. Bruner said that Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva, who are from El Salvador but are not related, would not live at the ranch and would probably sell it. Mr. Nethercott bought the ranch in 2003 for $120,000.

Mr. Mancía, who lives in Los Angeles, and Ms. Leiva, who lives in the Dallas area, have applied for visas that are available to immigrants who are the victims of certain crimes and who cooperate with the authorities, Ms. Bruner said. She said that until a decision was made on their applications, they could stay and work in the United States on a year-to-year basis.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva were caught on a ranch in Hebbronville, Tex., in March 2003 by Mr. Nethercott and other members of Ranch Rescue. The two immigrants later accused Mr. Nethercott of threatening them and of hitting Mr. Mancía with a pistol, charges that Mr. Nethercott denied. The immigrants also said the group gave them cookies, water and a blanket and let them go after an hour or so.

The Salvadorans testified against Mr. Nethercott when he was tried by Texas prosecutors. The jury deadlocked on a charge of pistol-whipping but convicted Mr. Nethercott, who had previously served time in California for assault, of gun possession, which is illegal for a felon. He is now serving a five-year sentence in a Texas prison.

Mr. Mancía and Ms. Leiva also filed a lawsuit against Mr. Nethercott; Jack Foote, the founder of Ranch Rescue; and the owner of the Hebbronville ranch, Joe Sutton. The immigrants said the ordeal, in which they feared that they would be killed by the men they thought were soldiers, had left them with post-traumatic stress.

Mr. Sutton settled for $100,000. Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote did not defend themselves, so the judge issued default judgments of $850,000 against Mr. Nethercott and $500,000 against Mr. Foote.

Mr. Dees said Mr. Foote appeared to have no substantial assets, but Mr. Nethercott had the ranch. Shortly after the judgment, Mr. Nethercott gave the land to his sister, Robin Albitz, of Prescott, Ariz. The Southern Poverty Law Center sued the siblings, saying the transfer was fraudulent and was meant to avoid the judgment.

Ms. Albitz, a nursing assistant, signed over the land to the two immigrants last week.

"It scared the hell out of her," Margaret Pauline Nethercott, the mother of Mr. Nethercott and Ms. Albitz, said of the lawsuit. "She didn't know she had done anything illegal. We didn't know they had a judgment against my son."

This was not the first time the law center had taken property from a group on behalf of a client. In 1987, the headquarters of a Ku Klux Klan group in Alabama was given to the mother of a boy whose murder was tied to Klansmen. Property has also been taken from the Aryan Nations and the White Aryan Resistance, Mr. Dees said.

Joseph Jacobson, a lawyer in Austin who represented Mr. Nethercott in the criminal case, said the award was "a vast sum of money for a very small indignity." Mr. Jacobson said the two immigrants were trespassing on Mr. Sutton's ranch and would have been deported had the criminal charges not been filed against Mr. Nethercott.

He criticized the law center for trying to get $60,000 in bail money transferred to the immigrants. While the center said the money was Mr. Nethercott's, Mr. Jacobson said it was actually Ms. Nethercott's, who mortgaged her home to post bail for her son.

Mr. Nethercott and Mr. Foote had a falling out in 2004, and Mr. Foote left Camp Thunderbird, taking Ranch Rescue with him. Mr. Nethercott then formed the Arizona Guard, also based on his ranch.

In April, Mr. Nethercott told an Arizona television station, "We're going to come out here and close the border with machine guns." But by the end of the month, he had started his prison sentence.

Now, only remnants of Camp Thunderbird remain on his ranch, a vast expanse of hard red soil, mesquite and tumbleweed with a house and two bunkhouses. One bunkhouse has a storeroom containing some camouflage suits, sleeping bags, tarps, emergency rations, empty ammunition crates, gun parts and a chemical warfare protection suit.

In one part of the ranch, dirt is piled up to form the backdrop of a firing range. An old water tank, riddled with bullet holes, is on its side. A platform was built as an observation post on the tower that once held the water tank.

Charles Jones, who was hired as a ranch hand about a month before Mr. Nethercott went to prison, put up fences and brought in cattle to graze. He has continued to live on the property with some family members.

But now the cattle are gone, and Mr. Jones has been told that he should prepare to leave. "It makes me sick I did all this work," he said.

Ms. Nethercott said she was not sure whether her son knew that his ranch was being turned over to the immigrants, but that he would be crushed if he did.

"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?ei=5065&en=5db095bc71c22a3a&ex=1125115200&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&adxnnlx=1124474860-Bf5weit4I9Xu0tVcs3qexQ&pagewanted=print)

Oops. I wasn't paying attention. Tell me again what is going on.

knuckleboner
08-20-2005, 05:15 PM
eh, i agree with the bot. ;)

good soundbites. but not much of a story.

private citizens do not have the right to enforce immigration laws. and they especially don't have the right to use assault people, illegal immigrants, or otherwise.

if that's what they did, then they should be subject to a lawsuit.

mind you, $130,000 seems like a high damage award. crack my skull, knock a tooth or 2 out, put me in the hospital for 2 weeks; yeah, maybe $130 grand. pistol whip me? seems a bit much...

BigBadBrian
08-20-2005, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
eh, i agree with the bot. ;)

good soundbites. but not much of a story.

private citizens do not have the right to enforce immigration laws. and they especially don't have the right to use assault people, illegal immigrants, or otherwise.

if that's what they did, then they should be subject to a lawsuit.

mind you, $130,000 seems like a high damage award. crack my skull, knock a tooth or 2 out, put me in the hospital for 2 weeks; yeah, maybe $130 grand. pistol whip me? seems a bit much...

Maybe so, but awarding the ranch to illegals in wrong also. How about giving it to the state? Under no circumstances should illegals benefit from what this country has to offer unless it is obtained LEGALLY.

And Martin Sheen, that includes a drivers licence for your nanny. ;) :D

Phil theStalker
08-20-2005, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court
By ANDREW POLLACK
DOUGLAS, Ariz., Aug. 18 - Spent shells litter the ground at what is left of the firing range, and camouflage outfits still hang in a storeroom. Just a few months ago, this ranch was known as Camp Thunderbird, the headquarters of a paramilitary group that promised to use force to keep illegal immigrants from sneaking across the border with Mexico.

Now, in a turnabout, the 70-acre property about two miles from the border is being given to two immigrants whom the group caught trying to enter the United States illegally.

The land transfer is being made to satisfy judgments in a lawsuit in which the immigrants had said that Casey Nethercott, the owner of the ranch and a former leader of the vigilante group Ranch Rescue, had harmed them...

"That's his whole life," she said of the ranch. "He'd be heartbroken if he lost it in any way, but this is the worst way."
LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html?ei=5065&en=5db095bc71c22a3a&ex=1125115200&adxnnl=1&partner=MYWAY&adxnnlx=1124474860-Bf5weit4I9Xu0tVcs3qexQ&pagewanted=print)
Yeh, keep throwing this shit out there, BBB.

The courts are a tough place and it doesn't matter if you're a citizen of that nation's courts or not.

Yeh, let's be "civilized" and have this Iraqi thing settled in court. I think they'd go for it, because the Iraqi's have a lot of money coming to them as the people who are the victims of an illegally destroyed and invaded sovereign nation by the mightiest military the world has ever seen. Is that judiciously and globally fair and civilized?

The Iraqi people have lost their inalienable right to self rule and their entire current and future natural resource wealth (oil) by an installed puppet government by and for the illegal invader(s).

[B]ALL THE IRAQ PEOPLE NEED IS A GOOD LAWYER AND THEY CAN "OWN" THE U.S.[B]

It will probably be a French court that will award the United States land as collateral for damages during the war. After all, the U.S. is in debt in trillions, with a T, and all the government has got is the land, because your physical bodies already are owed chattel to the Federal Reserve.

The Iraqi people will have to be awared the "property" of the U.S. people in order to settle the case.

Iraq v. U.S.A.

[U]The United States government, in order to provide necessary good and services, created a commercial bond (promissory note), by pledging the property, labor, life and body of it's citizens, as peyment of the debt (bankruptcy to the international bankers). This commercial bond made chattel (property) out of every man, woman and child in the United States. Everyman, woman and child are nothing more than and collateral and human resources for the debt.
www.brumbywatchaustralia.com/Principality39/htm
[2nd last paragraph]


:spank:

Phil theStalker
08-20-2005, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
eh, i agree with the bot. ;)

good soundbites. but not much of a story.

private citizens do not have the right to enforce immigration laws. and they especially don't have the right to use assault people, illegal immigrants, or otherwise.

if that's what they did, then they should be subject to a lawsuit.

mind you, $130,000 seems like a high damage award. crack my skull, knock a tooth or 2 out, put me in the hospital for 2 weeks; yeah, maybe $130 grand. pistol whip me? seems a bit much...
No one has the right to assault or to kidnap and injure and hold against their will anyone.

Certainly those are crimes, and certainly these type of crimes must be looked into before property owners exercise their right to defend their homes, property, life, limb or the life and limb of someone else.

If it's not your property but a federal border anywhere in the world you'd better watch out about making a "citizen's arrest," too. They have to be a citizen of your country for you to "arrest" them for any crimes, and even if they are your country's citizens you'd better have the hard evidence of a crime or you're guilty of holding someone against their will to kidnapping if you move them physically.

The law is easy and I don't know why so many people don't understand the simplest notions about what is trespassing, what is vandalism, what is kidnapping, what is assualt, what is battery, what is homocide. They just don't seem to think things out before they go off and do something the right way and achieve the results they want rather than doing it the wrong way and getting themselves in trouble with the law instead of the vandalizing, trespassing, rapist, kidnapping pedophiles and other illegal types you have a right to DEFEND yourself from.

Just do it the right way.

If you want to protect your family, home, and life and limb do it the proper way.

If you have to assault a violent trespasser, breaking and entering, and you have to use force do it within your rights to do so. You have plenty of rights.

Even criminals have rights.

Criminals are people, too. They have a right not to be kidnapped by you, a citizen thinking you're making a citizen's arrest. When the citizen you're detaining and holding isn't a citizen but is an illegal alien then you have violated their civil rights.

Federal land is not private property so private citizens of any nation state cannot take federal laws into their own hands and harass, assault, battery or detain/arrest any illegal crossing any federal border.

But if a stranger, illegal or legal citizen, is on my porch then they had better be selling Avon cosmetics or I've got something for them.:)


:spank:

FORD
08-20-2005, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Maybe so, but awarding the ranch to illegals in wrong also. How about giving it to the state? Under no circumstances should illegals benefit from what this country has to offer unless it is obtained LEGALLY.



I agree. The ranch should be given to a law abding American citizen with ties to Arizona.... such as myself :cool:

LoungeMachine
08-21-2005, 02:28 AM
Any way to blame Ass Prowler for it?

Maybe if he had been at his post, instead of posting here.....

FORD
08-21-2005, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Any way to blame Ass Prowler for it?

Maybe if he had been at his post, instead of posting here.....

Unfortunately, probably not. Yuma's in the southwestern corner of AZ, Douglas is near the southeast corner. So Ass Prowler probably isn't responsible for what goes on in Douglas.

LoungeMachine
08-21-2005, 02:43 AM
Been to Yuma.

Wall to Wall Snow Birds, and not much else.

You must need a real sense of Yuma to live there [ bada bing]


The Governor just called out ICE for their shitty work on the border.

LoungeMachine
08-21-2005, 02:47 AM
Originally posted by FORD
So Ass Prowler probably isn't responsible for what goes on in Douglas.

My guess is Ass Prowler isn't responsible for ANYTHING other than patrolling the Wal-Mart parking lot during the graveyard shift and wishing his Crown Victoria had real lights and a siren.

FORD
08-21-2005, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
My guess is Ass Prowler isn't responsible for ANYTHING other than patrolling the Wal-Mart parking lot during the graveyard shift and wishing his Crown Victoria had real lights and a siren.

Could very well be.... the Yuma Wal Mart is only a couple miles from the border...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2501+S+Avenue+B+Yuma+AZ

knuckleboner
08-22-2005, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Maybe so, but awarding the ranch to illegals in wrong also. How about giving it to the state? Under no circumstances should illegals benefit from what this country has to offer unless it is obtained LEGALLY.



yeah. my guess is the guys who owned the ranch didn't have much cash on hand. most civil suits don't allow the plantiff to decide who he/she wants to collect their award.

unless you're suit involves a specific item, you get cash. if you don't have the cash, then the courts can begin looking at other assets.


my guess is that's what happened. odds are the damage award was as much or probably more than the value of the property. so rather than demanding the property be sold to pay off the award (and leave them stilll owning) the defendants probably just agreed to give it up.


mind you, i still think they need to fire their lawyer. awfully big judgement, even for punatives.

(and, unfortunately for them, i think arizona lies within the 9th circuit court of appeals. they better hope they keep this thing in state courts...;))