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FORD
08-24-2005, 06:05 PM
Who Will Say 'No More'?

By Gary Hart
Wednesday, August 24, 2005; A15

"Waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool said to push on," warned an anti-Vietnam war song those many years ago. The McGovern presidential campaign, in those days, which I know something about, is widely viewed as a cause for the decline of the Democratic Party, a gateway through which a new conservative era entered.

Like the cat that jumped on a hot stove and thereafter wouldn't jump on any stove, hot or cold, today's Democratic leaders didn't want to make that mistake again. Many supported the Iraq war resolution and -- as the Big Muddy is rising yet again -- now find themselves tongue-tied or trying to trump a war president by calling for deployment of more troops. Thus does good money follow bad and bad politics get even worse.

History will deal with George W. Bush and the neoconservatives who misled a mighty nation into a flawed war that is draining the finest military in the world, diverting Guard and reserve forces that should be on the front line of homeland defense, shredding international alliances that prevailed in two world wars and the Cold War, accumulating staggering deficits, misdirecting revenue from education to rebuilding Iraqi buildings we've blown up, and weakening America's national security.

But what will history say about an opposition party that stands silent while all this goes on? My generation of Democrats jumped on the hot stove of Vietnam and now, with its members in positions of responsibility, it is afraid of jumping on any political stove. In their leaders, the American people look for strength, determination and self-confidence, but they also look for courage, wisdom, judgment and, in times of moral crisis, the willingness to say: "I was wrong."

To stay silent during such a crisis, and particularly to harbor the thought that the administration's misfortune is the Democrats' fortune, is cowardly. In 2008 I want a leader who is willing now to say: "I made a mistake, and for my mistake I am going to Iraq and accompanying the next planeload of flag-draped coffins back to Dover Air Force Base. And I am going to ask forgiveness for my mistake from every parent who will talk to me."

Further, this leader should say: "I am now going to give a series of speeches across the country documenting how the administration did not tell the American people the truth, why this war is making our country more vulnerable and less secure, how we can drive a wedge between Iraqi insurgents and outside jihadists and leave Iraq for the Iraqis to govern, how we can repair the damage done to our military, what we and our allies can do to dry up the jihadists' swamp, and what dramatic steps we must take to become energy-secure and prevent Gulf Wars III, IV and so on."

At stake is not just the leadership of the Democratic Party and the nation but our nation's honor, our nobility and our principles. Franklin D. Roosevelt established a national community based on social justice. Harry Truman created international networks that repaired the damage of World War II and defeated communism. John F. Kennedy recaptured the ideal of the republic and the sense of civic duty. To expect to enter this pantheon, the next Democratic leader must now undertake all three tasks.

But this cannot be done while the water is rising in the Big Muddy of the Middle East. No Democrat, especially one now silent, should expect election by default. The public trust must be earned, and speaking clearly, candidly and forcefully now about the mess in Iraq is the place to begin.

The real defeatists today are not those protesting the war. The real defeatists are those in power and their silent supporters in the opposition party who are reduced to repeating "Stay the course" even when the course, whatever it now is, is light years away from the one originally undertaken. The truth is we're way off course. We've stumbled into a hornet's nest. We've weakened ourselves at home and in the world. We are less secure today than before this war began.

Who now has the courage to say this?

The writer is a former Democratic senator from Colorado.

Could this be the beginning of the Hart 2008 campaign?

Guitar Shark
08-24-2005, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Could this be the beginning of the Hart 2008 campaign?

Let's ask Donna Rice.

NightProwler
08-24-2005, 06:10 PM
No more "monkey business"!

;+)

FORD
08-24-2005, 06:16 PM
Kinda funny how Donna Rice is now a right wing anti-porn crusader. Makes you wonder if she wasn't playing for their team all along.

Hart would have kicked Poppy Bush's ass in 1988. Can he pull off a comeback 20 years later? He's kinda old to be running now. Probably will be about where Reagan was in 1980. But as the above editorial suggests, he's got a clearer vision of reality than any of the so-called "leaders" in Congress do. Let alone those assholes in the DLC. Whether as a candidate or otherwise, I hope Gary Hart works with Howard Dean to save this party.

NightProwler
08-24-2005, 06:17 PM
"would have"?

LMAO

What color is the sky in your world?

gary hart is a schmuck who brought himself down, just like dean.

Guitar Shark
08-24-2005, 06:18 PM
If Gary Hart and Howard Dean are the people charged with saving this party, then it will be a long time before the Dems take the reins again.

NightProwler
08-24-2005, 06:22 PM
Bingo!

I'd vote for Bob Kerrey though.

Warham
08-24-2005, 06:22 PM
Gary Hart? LMAO!

Next, let's ask Michael Dukakis what it'll take to get the reins back, eh?

Guitar Shark
08-24-2005, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Gary Hart? LMAO!

Next, let's ask Michael Dukakis what it'll take to get the reins back, eh?

I can still see his little head bobbing out of the top of that tank. Worst PR move EVER by a candidate.

FORD
08-24-2005, 07:44 PM
http://images.animationfactory.com/animations/objects/lawn_care/man_trimming_with_weed_eater/man_trimming_with_weed_eater_lg_wm.gif

Keep this thread on topic please.

Guitar Shark
08-24-2005, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Kinda funny how Donna Rice is now a right wing anti-porn crusader. Makes you wonder if she wasn't playing for their team all along.

Hart would have kicked Poppy Bush's ass in 1988. Can he pull off a comeback 20 years later? He's kinda old to be running now. Probably will be about where Reagan was in 1980. But as the above editorial suggests, he's got a clearer vision of reality than any of the so-called "leaders" in Congress do. Let alone those assholes in the DLC. Whether as a candidate or otherwise, I hope Gary Hart works with Howard Dean to save this party.

So do you think Gary should run, FORD?

FORD
08-24-2005, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
So do you think Gary should run, FORD?

Like I said, he would have kicked Bush's ass in 88, and I would have voted for him, had they not driven him out of the race.

He might be too old to run for President now, or he might be entirely uninterested for any number of other reasons (been there, done that) but I agree with what he said above. And I would easily support him over Hillary, Biden, or any of the other DLC jokes that are being mentioned currently.

As I said before, I'd like to see Hart working with Howard Dean, Al Gore and others who are genuinely concerned with changing the direction of the Democratic party from the Repuke-lite trap the DLC has left us in. Whether that means some combination of those three becomes the 2008 ticket or not remains to be seen.

NightProwler
08-24-2005, 08:19 PM
ford...have you ever considered having the DNC run you as their candidate?

Phil theStalker
08-24-2005, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Who Will Say 'No More'?

By Gary Hart
Wednesday, August 24, 2005; A15

"Waist deep in the Big Muddy and the big fool said to push on," warned an anti-Vietnam war song those many years ago...n.

Who now has the courage to say this?[/i]

Ummm.. I have the courage to say this. DOH


:spank:


ENDORSE THE NEW CONSTITUTION

FORD
08-24-2005, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by NightProwler
ford...have you ever considered having the DNC run you as their candidate?

I have. And I think I'll wait until the party's been cleaned up a little. I get enough headaches from the DLC types as it is, without them personally gunning for me like they did Howard Dean in 2004.

Guitar Shark
08-24-2005, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Like I said, he would have kicked Bush's ass in 88, and I would have voted for him, had they not driven him out of the race.


He drove himself out of the race, wouldn't you agree?

None of the people you are supporting have any chance at winning. Doesn't that concern you?

FORD
08-24-2005, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
He drove himself out of the race, wouldn't you agree?

None of the people you are supporting have any chance at winning. Doesn't that concern you?

Hart drove himself out of the race due to a personal mistake which, as I said, was probably a setup. That actually gives him an advantage as a candidate now, because they can't dig up any dirt on the guy now. Everybody KNOWS it already.

As for Gore, I've already gone over my "Nixon 68 comeback special" analogies, and still think, as the man who WAS elected in 2000, he's got a unique advantage that no candidate has ever had before "Look at what 8 years of this guy did to the country. Now don't you wish you could make that call again?"

Same with Dean for that matter, should he decide to run. The DLC attacked him last year for stating factually that neither Iraq and especially not the US were any safer with Saddam Hussein in custody. History has since proven that Dean was right. Even if Kerry were in the White House now, would we be any better off? Probably not, with PNAC'er Will Marshall writing his foreign policy.

We don't need "kinder-gentler imperialism", which is what DLC/PPI wants. We need to concentrate on OUR borders and OUR seaports and let the other countries deal with their own shit.

And as Hart says, somebody with the COURAGE to say that is going to be the one who brings the people back to the Democratic party.

DrMaddVibe
08-25-2005, 08:07 AM
I'll say "No More"!

No more to political aspirations of buffoons and braggarts.

See ya Gary Hart.

See ya Mike Dukakis

See ya John Kerry.

See ya Al Gore.

See ya George McGovern.

There's no courage to be had in ripping on America. If our enemies delight and dance in pulling America down then why should one of its major political parties? Why anyone supports aiding and abeiting our enemies causes is an afront to the Constitution and to The USA.

Think about what you're doing. Is it making the world a safer place?

Nickdfresh
08-25-2005, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
I'll say "No More"!

No more to political aspirations of buffoons and braggarts.

See ya Gary Hart.

See ya Mike Dukakis

See ya John Kerry.

See ya Al Gore.

See ya George McGovern.

There's no courage to be had in ripping on America. If our enemies delight and dance in pulling America down then why should one of its major political parties? Why anyone supports aiding and abeiting our enemies causes is an afront to the Constitution and to The USA.

Think about what you're doing. Is it making the world a safer place?

You forgot the entire BUSH klan...

BigBadBrian
08-25-2005, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by NightProwler
Bingo!

I'd vote for Bob Kerrey though.

He's actually an interesting proposition.

I'd have to take a look at him.

I like the way he handled himself during the 9/11 commission inquiry.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
08-25-2005, 02:24 PM
I say no more......


No more Bush

No more Cheney

No more Rummy

No more Rice

No more Ashcrofts

No more Perles

No more Roves

No more Wolfies

No more Libbys

No more DeLays

No more Abramoffs

No more Cunninghams


Lock 'em all up and throw away the keys

Warham
08-25-2005, 02:28 PM
Yeah, every mistake a Democrat makes is a 'set-up', but when Newt Gingrich or any other R makes a mistake, they are the Antichrist.

Give it up already.

:rolleyes:

Gary Hart was a dirtbag.

Satan
08-25-2005, 03:10 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, every mistake a Democrat makes is a 'set-up', but when Newt Gingrich or any other R makes a mistake, they are the Antichrist.



What's up with all the insults today? First you compare me to DeLay, then you imply that Newt Gingrich is my son?

Unholy shit, I'm just an honest Devil trying to earn a living like anyone else :mad: