Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands

[Warham]

Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands
By BRETT MARTEL, Associated Press Writer
38 minutes ago

NEW ORLEANS - Hurricane Katrina probably killed thousands of people in New Orleans, the mayor said Wednesday _ an estimate that, if accurate, would make the storm the nation's deadliest natural disaster since at least the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

"We know there is a significant number of dead bodies in the water," and other people dead in attics, Mayor Ray Nagin said. Asked how many, he said: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands."

The frightening estimate came as Army engineers struggled to plug New Orleans' breached levees with giant sandbags and concrete barriers, while authorities drew up plans to clear out the tens of thousands of people left in the Big Easy and all but abandon the flooded-out city. Many of the evacuees _ including thousands now staying in the Superdome _ will be moved to the Astrodome in Houston, 350 miles away.

There will be a "total evacuation of the city. We have to. The city will not be functional for two or three months," Nagin said. And he said people will not be allowed back into their homes for at least a month or two.

Nagin estimated 50,000 to 100,000 people remained in New Orleans, a city of nearly half a million people. He said 14,000 to 15,000 a day could be evacuated.

The Pentagon, meanwhile, began mounting one of the largest search-and-rescue operations in U.S. history, sending four Navy ships to the Gulf Coast with drinking water and other emergency supplies, along with the hospital ship USNS Comfort, search helicopters and elite SEAL water-rescue teams. American Red Cross workers from across the country converged on the devastated region in the agency's biggest-ever relief operation.

Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast on Monday just east of New Orleans with howling, 145-mile wind. The death toll has reached at least 110 in Mississippi alone. But the full magnitude of the disaster had been unclear for days; Louisiana has been putting aside the counting of the dead to concentrate on rescuing the living, many of whom were still trapped on rooftops and in attics.

If the mayor's estimate holds true, it would make Katrina the nation's deadliest hurricane since 1900, when a storm in Galveston, Texas, killed between 6,000 and 12,000 people. The death toll in the San Francisco earthquake and the resulting fire has been put at anywhere from about 500 to 6,000.

State officials said the mayor's figure seemed plausible.

Lt. Kevin Cowan of the state Office of Emergency Preparedness said there is no way to determine with any accuracy how many died. But he noted that since thousands of people had been rescued from roofs and attics, it could be assumed that there were lots of others who were not saved.

"You have a limited number of resources, for an unknown number of evacuees. It's already been several days. You've had reports there are casualties. You all can do the math," he said.

A full day after the Big Easy thought it had escaped Katrina's full fury, two levees broke and spilled water into the streets Tuesday, swamping an estimated 80 percent of the bowl-shaped, below-sea-level city, inundating miles and miles of homes and rendering much of New Orleans uninhabitable for weeks or months.

Around midday, officials with the state and the Army Corps of Engineers said the water levels between the city and Lake Pontchartrain had equalized, and water had stopped pouring into New Orleans, and even appeared to be falling, at least in some places. But the danger was far from over.

The Army Corps of Engineers said it planned to use heavy-duty Chinook helicopters to drop 15,000-pound bags of sand and stone as early as Wednesday night into the 500-foot gap in the failed floodwall.

But the agency said it was having trouble getting the sandbags and dozens of 15-foot highway barriers to the site because the city's waterways were blocked by loose barges, boats and large debris.

Officials said they were also looking at a more audacious plan: finding a barge to plug the 500-foot hole.

"The challenge is an engineering nightmare," the governor said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

With the streets awash and looters brazenly cleaning out stores with law enforcement officers too busy to do anything about it, authorities planned to move at least 25,000 of the New Orleans' storm refugees to the Astrodome in a vast, two-day caravan of some 475 buses.

Many of the city's storm refugees _ 15,000 to 20,000 people _ were in the Superdome, which had become hot and stuffy, with broken toilets and nowhere for anyone to bathe. "It can no longer operate as a shelter of last resort," the mayor said.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco said the situation was desperate and there was no choice but to clear out.

"The logistical problems are impossible and we have to evacuate people in shelters," the governor said. "It's becoming untenable. There's no power. It's getting more difficult to get food and water supplies in, just basic essentials."

Walter Baumy of the Army Corps of Engineers said that it could be weeks before the water is removed from the city, but that he is confident New Orleans' pumps, once they are back in service, can handle the load.

As the sense of desperation deepened in New Orleans, hundreds of people wandered up and down Interstate 10, pushing shopping carts, laundry racks, anything they could find to carry their belongings. Dozens of fishermen from up to 200 miles away floated in on caravans of boats to pull residents out of flooded neighborhoods.

On some of the few roads that were still passable, people waved at passing cars with empty water jugs, begging for relief. Hundreds of people appeared to have spent the night on a crippled highway.

In one east New Orleans neighborhood, refugees were loaded onto the backs of moving vans like cattle, and in one case emergency workers with a sledgehammer and an ax broke open the back of a mail truck and used it to ferry sick and elderly residents.

Police officers were asking residents to give up any guns they had before they boarded buses and trucks because police desperately needed the firepower: Some officers who had been stranded on the roof of a motel said they were being shot at overnight.

The sweltering city of 480,000 people _ an estimated 80 percent of whom obeyed orders to evacuate as Katrina closed in over the weekend _ had no drinkable water, the electricity could be out for weeks, and looters were ransacking stores around town.

Sections of Interstate 10, the only major freeway leading into New Orleans from the east, lay shattered, dozens of huge slabs of concrete floating in the floodwaters. I-10 is the only route for commercial trucking across southern Louisiana.

In addition to the Houston Astrodome solution, the Federal Emergency Management Agency was considering putting people on cruise ships, in tent cities, mobile home parks, and so-called floating dormitories _ boats the agency uses to house its own employees.

A helicopter view of the devastation over Louisiana and Mississippi revealed people standing on black rooftops, baking in the sunshine while waiting for rescue boats.

Looting broke out in some New Orleans neighborhoods, prompting authorities to send more than 70 additional officers and an armed personnel carrier into the city. One police officer was shot in the head by a looter but was expected to recover, authorities said.

A giant new Wal-Mart in New Orleans was looted, and the entire gun collection was taken, The Times-Picayune newspaper reported. "There are gangs of armed men in the city moving around the city," said Terry Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief.

The governor acknowledged that looting was a severe problem but said that officials had to focus on survivors. "We don't like looters one bit, but first and foremost is search and rescue," she said.

In Washington, the Bush administration decided to release crude oil from federal petroleum reserves to help refiners whose supply was disrupted by Katrina. The announcement helped push oil prices lower.

___

Associated Press reporters Holbrook Mohr, Mary Foster, Allen G. Breed, Adam Nossiter and Jay Reeves contributed to this report.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Warham
"You have a limited number of resources, for an unknown number of evacuees. It's already been several days. You've had reports there are casualties. You all can do the math," he said.


Hmm.. not enough support to keep looters at bay, repair the damage, distribute supplies... I wonder why?

That's why it's called the "National" Guard, not the "Iraq" Guard...

[Nickdfresh]

I sure hope that number is not true.


This is going to hurt the economy...The price of construction materials were already high because of IRAQ...

[Warham]

The footage I'm seeing on TV is just unreal.

The fact that they won't even be able to go into the city again in months. It's like something out of a Mad Max movie.

[scorpioboy33]

The thing that sickens me is all the bottom feeders that are looting the stores. Soliders that could be helping people are being pulled off that duty because armed gangs and looters are taking advantage of this horrible situation and stealing. One lady I seen being interviewed said she had to feed her family...by stealing a computer??? pathetc

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
The thing that sickens me is all the bottom feeders that are looting the stores. Soliders that could be helping people are being pulled off that duty because armed gangs and looters are taking advantage of this horrible situation and stealing. One lady I seen being interviewed said she had to feed her family...by stealing a computer??? pathetc

I don't think we can judge those people.

1. Have you ever experienced mob mentality? When you don't know where your next meal or sip of water will come from? That will turn anyone into an animal!

2. You can try to barter stuff for food and water, and that's probably what those desperate people are thinking.

The situation is horrible. Don't judge those people for trying to survive.

This shit is fucked up. New Orleans is gone.:eek: :(

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think we can judge those people.

1. Have you ever experienced mob mentality? When you don't know where your next meal or sip of water will come from? That will turn anyone into an animal!

2. You can try to barter stuff for food and water, and that's probably what those desperate people are thinking.

The situation is horrible. Don't judge those people for trying to survive.

This shit is fucked up. New Orleans is gone.:eek: :(

true enough...I hope they are all safe but it seems that a lot of people take advantage of these situations...remember the Rodney King Riots in LA? Same thing people taking advantage. But your right I am going to go to Pay Pal and make a donation and hope others follow suit. But I also am all for taking out the looters...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't think we can judge those people.

1. Have you ever experienced mob mentality? When you don't know where your next meal or sip of water will come from? That will turn anyone into an animal!

2. You can try to barter stuff for food and water, and that's probably what those desperate people are thinking.

The situation is horrible. Don't judge those people for trying to survive.

This shit is fucked up. New Orleans is gone.:eek: :(

I think we can judge them.

They are criminals. It's that simple.

Looting for the sake of food and water is one thing.

Steeling armloads of Nikes and TV's and electronics is another.

The police prohibit looting because it actually ENCOURAGES further crime later on. They rip each other off, stab each other, shoot each other, etc.... all in the name of a hundred dollars worth of merchandise.

If they want to clean out the food stores...fine.

Cleaning out retail stores is NOT fine.

:gulp:

[DLR'sCock]

Well, If you have no food and no water, you need to survive right? I have no problem if people take food and water so they can live and eventually get the hell out of the city.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I think we can judge them.

They are criminals. It's that simple.

Looting for the sake of food and water is one thing.

Steeling armloads of Nikes and TV's and electronics is another.

The police prohibit looting because it actually ENCOURAGES further crime later on. They rip each other off, stab each other, shoot each other, etc.... all in the name of a hundred dollars worth of merchandise.

If they want to clean out the food stores...fine.

Cleaning out retail stores is NOT fine.


:gulp:

Of course YOU can judge them. Your type makes a living out of judging people.

I didn't say it wasn't a crime, and I didn't say it shouldn't be forceably discouraged. But you have no right to judge those people. Have you ever had your entire existence wiped out?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Of course YOU can judge them. Your type makes a living out of judging people.

I didn't say it wasn't a crime, and I didn't say it shouldn't be forceably discouraged. But you have no right to judge those people. Have you ever had your entire existence wiped out?

Pretty much. Hurricane Hugo.

Any other questions?

[scorpioboy33]

No shit! Like I said in LA during the Rodney King thing..it had nothing to do with Survival it had everything to do with Greed. I'm not saying it's only blacks because I know that can't be true but I have to admit when stuff like this happens there tends to be alot of Black people involved maybe because the are on the bottom of the barrel economically or because the lack jobs but it really is freaking making me wonder are some blacks not reinforcing their own stereotypes. I really hate thinking this way but it is what I've been wondering

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
No shit! Like I said in LA during the Rodney King thing..it had nothing to do with Survival it had everything to do with Greed. I'm not saying it's only blacks because I know that can't be true but I have to admit when stuff like this happens there tends to be alot of Black people involved maybe because the are on the bottom of the barrel economically or because the lack jobs but it really is freaking making me wonder are some blacks not reinforcing their own stereotypes. I really hate thinking this way but it is what I've been wondering
opps just one more thing....could it be that some people didn't leave because they considered the possiblity of taking advantage or was it just not possible to leave?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
No shit! Like I said in LA during the Rodney King thing..it had nothing to do with Survival it had everything to do with Greed.

It's not only blacks that do it , but New Orleans, the downtown area, is predominantly African-American.

I used to live in Pascagoula, MS (home of my good friend Senator Trent Lott :D) on the coast not too far from Biloxi and Gulfport where alot of the major damage from Katrina is. There was a hurricane there (minor) just before we moved there. Between here, Charleston, and down on the Gulf Coast, it seems I've been following hurricane activity quite a bit. :(

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
maybe because the are on the bottom of the barrel economically

The poor are generally doing the worst through this, like most times. They have less education to convince them to flee and less resources to help them flee or stock up to survive the aftermath.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Pretty much. Hurricane Hugo.

Any other questions?

Yeah, was your entire city was flooded? Did you prepare at all?

[scorpioboy33]

yah I know there must be reasons and media biase...ever hear something in the news about murders, crime and think oh no here it comes and than bingo....black etc etc etc....I am prob. just being to influnced by what I read watch etc...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
opps just one more thing....could it be that some people didn't leave because they considered the possiblity of taking advantage or was it just not possible to leave?

No. Most people don't leave because they just don't take the threat seriously.

I imagine there are some who can't afford it but just think: New Orleans has had it's brushes with hurricanes before. Nothing major has happened. This is/was nothing new to alot of those people. Yeah, some left, some bought their "hurricane supplies" for a few days. But that's about it.

:gulp:

[scorpioboy33]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
The poor are generally doing the worst through this, like most times. They have less education to convince them to flee and less resources to help them flee or stock up to survive the aftermath.

What education do you need to leave when you hear...get the fuck out? Was there not safe place within the city for people to go

[scorpioboy33]

yah know thats why I love this place seriously...you can learn alot of shit and question stuff without racist or other generalizations always being thrown out...sometimes I lose site of it

[Nickdfresh]

Looting material goods (non foodstuffs and survival material) is bullshit and there is no excuse for it!

[Nickdfresh]

How will they get the floodwaters out of a city below sea-level?

[Warham]

I asked the same question, Nick.

Some guy on FOX said they'll have to pump it out.

Sounds like it'll take years.

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I think we can judge them.

They are criminals. It's that simple.

Looting for the sake of food and water is one thing.

Steeling armloads of Nikes and TV's and electronics is another.

The police prohibit looting because it actually ENCOURAGES further crime later on. They rip each other off, stab each other, shoot each other, etc.... all in the name of a hundred dollars worth of merchandise.

If they want to clean out the food stores...fine.

Cleaning out retail stores is NOT fine.

:gulp:

In a case like this, I'd count clothing with food. If these people have lost their homes, then they probably don't have any changes of clothing either. Don't tell me you would deny your kid a dry pair of shoes if you were stranded in a flooded city.

TV's and computers that's ridiculous, because you can't plug em in, and you aren't going to be able to sell them on the street to someone who can't plug them in either.

In either case, the stores are insured, and whatever they had probably wouldn't be sellable after the flood anyhow.

[Warham]

A former congressman suggested that the governor institute martial law down there until they can get it under control.

[diamondD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How will they get the floodwaters out of a city below sea-level?


They've had pumps for years to do it, but unfortunately they are so old and out of date that they aren't effective. People have known this would happen for years, but they've always put it off as something in the future.

[Warham]

This doesn't even begin to take into account the filth in the water (rampant diseases, carcasses, raw sewage). The sewage system is most likely trashed. They'll have to completely overhaul it. Like Bush suggested, it'll probably take years.

If they hire the contractors that handled the Big Dig, it'll be ten to fifteen years.

[FORD]

I'm sure Cheney's typing up the no-bid Halliburton contacts even as we speak.

[DLR'sCock]

New Orleans is finished, this is history. It will take years and years to rebuild, if they do so....

I love New Orleans. I love Decatur St. The Abbey, the Hideout, Molly's, Checkpoint Charlie's!!!!

[scorpioboy33]

So people will not be able to live there at all? Like the whole fucking city...amazing. Is this going to really affect the whole economy?

[Warham]

They won't be able to let people back in for at least two to three months they said, and I think they were being hasty and a bit unrealistic. They probably won't let anybody back in for another six months to a year. I'm probably being hasty in suggesting that.

[scorpioboy33]

can you imagine if a few of those hit the country...I'm telling you the environment is mad and it's PAY BACK TIME!

[Cathedral]

I'll tell you what i saw.
Every bit of coverage on the looting was all blacks, except fo one shot where an elderly man was standing outside a shop watching it being looted...he just stood there and watched them scurry around like roaches.

But i don't blame anyone who took clothes, shoes, food and water.
They had no way out and just think about being stuck in your attic for two days, then you get lifted out and dropped on a highway with no clue what to do next and no way to get where you don't know you're going.

But anything not survival related is bullshit.

There was a cop shot in the head by a looter, but he will recover i hear.

I have never seen anything like this on this scale and i still can't believe the extent of the devastation.

But most of all, I feel for those who were angry because they felt nobody was doing anything to help them.

It's a cluster fuck that nobody knows how to deal with and my prayers are with them all.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Warham
Nagin estimated 50,000 to 100,000 people remained in New Orleans, a city of nearly half a million people.


I don't want to sound like a cunt about this but why did these people stay?

1000s of miles away I knew it was a bad place to hang around for days.

It's not like the Tsunami where noone had any warning...

There's a degree of Darwinism going on here. Some people seem to be totally unable to look after and take responsibility for themselves.

Oof that doesn't sound too liberal does it...:)

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Cathedral
There was a cop shot in the head by a looter, but he will recover i hear.


Most of the energy of the bullet was absorbed by the donut he was holding...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I don't want to sound like a cunt about this but why did these people stay?

1000s of miles away I knew it was a bad place to hang around for days.

It's not like the Tsunami where noone had any warning...

There's a degree of Darwinism going on here. Some people seem to be totally unable to look after and take responsibility for themselves.

Oof that doesn't sound too liberal does it...:)

I think it was a case of confliciting innformation. Pretty much at the 11th hour, they retracted all the predictions of the Cat 5 mega-devastator hurricane hitting New Orleans dead on, and indicated that the worst of the storm was actually going to hit Mississippi more than New Orleans itself.

And actually that **IS** what happenned. The hurricane itself didn't do most of the damage to New Orleans, the damaged levees did, and that's because the city sits like a "bowl" which is naturally 60 feet below sea level.

Beyond that it's the case of a lot of these people being poor and not having anywhere else to go. Some of them may of not even had a car to get out of town. Between that and the confliciting news reports, they probably thought they could just ride it out, as many people do in Florida hurricanes every year.

[Seshmeister]

Points taken but 90% did think it was bad enough to get out.

How much does a beat up car cost in the US these days?

$500?

Every year the gap between the rich and poor seems to get more extreme.

What about buses or trains?

To me it's like people that go back into a burning building to save a TV or something. Everyone is so wrapped up in materialistic shit they've toatlly lost the plot about what actually matters,

I guess we've all got so comfortable and isolated from shit people seem to be unable to grasp that it doesn't take that much for everything we rely on guaranteeing our comfortable lives to fall apart.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by scorpioboy33
What education do you need to leave when you hear...get the fuck out? Was there not safe place within the city for people to go

I'm talking about the POOR people in New Orleans. I've heard about the public schools up there and believe me, they've got some un-educated people.

People who never watch the news. Who aren't aware that their city is under sea-level. Who can't comprehend no electricity or McDonalds. People who could never even think of buying a car. There were thousands of people like that in New Orleans.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD

In either case, the stores are insured, and whatever they had probably wouldn't be sellable after the flood anyhow.

Alot of insurance policies don't cover homes and businesses against looting OR flooding.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I don't want to sound like a cunt about this but why did these people stay?

1000s of miles away I knew it was a bad place to hang around for days.

It's not like the Tsunami where noone had any warning...

There's a degree of Darwinism going on here. Some people seem to be totally unable to look after and take responsibility for themselves.

Oof that doesn't sound too liberal does it...:)

It's a pity too, things looked relatively decent for New ORLEANS until "the levee (broke)."

[ashstralia]

i just saw a report on the devastation.

absolutely tragic.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I don't want to sound like a cunt about this but why did these people stay?

1000s of miles away I knew it was a bad place to hang around for days.

It's not like the Tsunami where noone had any warning...

There's a degree of Darwinism going on here. Some people seem to be totally unable to look after and take responsibility for themselves.

Oof that doesn't sound too liberal does it...:)

It doesn't sound too liberal but it sounds quite naive. I don't mean that as a slam either. :)

As OD said, some of these people are "street smart" in some aspects but quite uneducated in the real world. They just don't give a damn about anything other than what happens in their own little world. They rarely watch the news, don't read the newspapers, and education is not a priority. Sad, but true. A tragedy is happening because of this cultural phenomenon. :(

[BigBadBrian]

Evacuation Disrupted Amid Fires, Gunshots
Sep 01 10:11 AM US/Eastern


By ADAM NOSSITER
Associated Press Writer


NEW ORLEANS


Gunfire and arson blazes disrupted the evacuation of 25,000 people from the Superdome on Thursday, as National Guardsmen in armored vehicles poured into New Orleans to help restore order across the increasingly lawless and desperate city.

An additional 10,000 National Guard troops from across the country were ordered into the hurricane-ravaged Gulf Coast to shore up security, rescue and relief operations in Katrina's wake. That brought the number of troops dedicated to the effort to more than 28,000, in what may be the biggest military response to a natural disaster in U.S. history.

"The truth is, a terrible tragedy like this brings out the best in most people, brings out the worst in some people," said Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour on NBC's "Today" show. "We're trying to deal with looters as ruthlessly as we can get our hands on them."

The first of 500 busloads of people who were evacuated from the hot and stinking Louisiana Superdome arrived early Thursday at their new temporary home _ another sports arena, the Houston Astrodome, 350 miles away.

But the ambulance service in charge of airlifting the sick and injured from the Superdome suspended flights after a shot was reported fired at a military helicopter. Richard Zuschlag, chief of Acadian Ambulance, said it had become too dangerous for his pilots.

The military, which was overseeing the removal of the able-bodied by buses, continued the ground evacuation without interruption, said National Guard Lt. Col. Pete Schneider. But Schneider said fires set outside the arena were making it difficult for buses to get close enough to pick people up.

President Bush urged a crackdown on the looting and other lawlessness that have spread through New Orleans.

"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this _ whether it be looting, or price gouging at the gasoline pump, or taking advantage of charitable giving or insurance fraud," Bush said. "And I've made that clear to our attorney general. The citizens ought to be working together."

On Wednesday, Mayor Ray Nagin offered the most startling estimate yet of the magnitude of the disaster: Asked how many people died in New Orleans, he said: "Minimum, hundreds. Most likely, thousands." The death toll has already reached at least 110 in Mississippi.

If the estimate proves correct, it would make Katrina the worst natural disaster in the United States since at least the 1906 San Francisco earthquake and fire, which was blamed for anywhere from about 500 to 6,000 deaths. Katrina would also be the nation's deadliest hurricane since 1900, when a storm in Galveston, Texas, killed between 6,000 and 12,000 people.

Nagin called for a total evacuation of New Orleans, saying the city had become uninhabitable for the 50,000 to 100,000 who remained behind after the city of nearly a half-million people was ordered evacuated over the weekend, before Katrina blasted the Gulf Coast with 145-mph winds.

The mayor said that it will be two or three months before the city is functioning again and that people would not be allowed back into their homes for at least a month or two.

With New Orleans sinking deeper into desperation, Nagin also ordered virtually the entire police force to abandon search-and-rescue efforts Wednesday and stop the increasingly brazen thieves.

"They are starting to get closer to heavily populated areas _ hotels, hospitals, and we're going to stop it right now," Nagin said.

In a sign of growing lawlessness, Tenet HealthCare Corp. asked authorities late Wednesday to help evacuate a fully functioning hospital in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water and medical supplies was held up at gunpoint.

"There are physical threats to safety from roving bands of armed individuals with weapons who are threatening the safety of the hospital," said spokesman Steven Campanini. He estimated there were 350 employees in the hospital and between 125 to 150 patients.

Tempers flared elsewhere across the devastated region. Police said a man in Hattiesburg, Miss., fatally shot his sister in the head over a bag of ice. Dozens of carjackings were reported, including a nursing home bus. One officer was shot in the head and a looter was wounded in a shootout. Both were expected to survive.

Looters used garbage cans and inflatable mattresses to float away with food, clothes, TV sets _ even guns. Outside one pharmacy, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break through the glass. The driver of a nursing-home bus surrendered the vehicle to thugs after being threatened.

Hundreds of people wandered up and down shattered Interstate 10 _ the only major freeway leading into New Orleans from the east _ pushing shopping carts, laundry racks, anything they could find to carry their belongings.

On some of the few roads that were still open, people waved at passing cars with empty water jugs, begging for relief. Hundreds of people appeared to have spent the night on a crippled highway.

The floodwaters streamed into the city's streets from two levee breaks near Lake Pontchartrain a day after New Orleans thought it had escaped catastrophic damage from Katrina. The floodwaters covered 80 percent of the city, in some areas 20 feet deep, in a reddish-brown soup of sewage, gasoline and garbage.

The Army Corps of Engineers said it planned to use heavy-duty Chinook helicopters to drop 15,000-pound bags of sand and stone into a 500- foot gap in the failed floodwall.

But the agency said it was having trouble getting the sandbags and dozens of 15-foot highway barriers to the site because the city's waterways were blocked by loose barges, boats and large debris.

The full magnitude of the disaster had been unclear for days _ in part, because some areas in both coastal Mississippi and Louisiana are still unreachable, but also because authorities' first priority has been reaching the living.

In Mississippi, for example, ambulances roamed through the passable streets of devastated places such as Biloxi, Gulfport, Waveland and Bay St. Louis, in some cases speeding past corpses in hopes of saving people trapped in flooded and crumbled buildings.

Link (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/01/D8CBGNJO0.html)

[BigBadBrian]

Should NEW ORLEANS be salvaged? Should it be rebuilt?

I went to both DemocraticUnderground and FreeRepublic in search of that question/answer.

I was surprised at the result.

Amazingly enough, there were some people on both sites that favored keeping it while some favored demolishing the city and moving it.

What does everyone think? The repairs will cost US, yes US, in the billions, maybe trillions.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It doesn't sound too liberal but it sounds quite naive. I don't mean that as a slam either. :)

As OD said, some of these people are "street smart" in some aspects but quite uneducated in the real world. They just don't give a damn about anything other than what happens in their own little world. They rarely watch the news, don't read the newspapers, and education is not a priority. Sad, but true. A tragedy is happening because of this cultural phenomenon. :(

Yes, I agree, sorta'. But you forgot some key components of "ghetto" culture...Poverty and shitty, underfunded urban schools...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Evacuation Disrupted Amid Fires, Gunshots
Sep 01 10:11 AM US/Eastern

By ADAM NOSSITER
Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS
Gunfire and arson blazes disrupted the evacuation of 25,000 people from the Superdome on Thursday, as National Guardsmen in armored vehicles poured into New Orleans to help restore order across the increasingly lawless and desperate city.


http://www.homevideos.com/freezeframes1122/roadwarrior192.jpeg http://www.videovista.net/articles/escny1.jpg

[FORD]

One fact we know about global warming is that any coastal city will be at risk. One that's below sea level and in a hurricane zone even more so.

I've never been to New Orleans, so admittedly I don't know that much about the place apart from Mardi Gras, Cajun food, the oil industry, and what I read in the Vampire Lestat books.

Apart from the obvious oil operations, what industries are central to New Orleans and is it economically reasonable to rebuild there? I guess that's the first question.

Plans to build the levees stronger and higher were already in the works before BCE budget cuts postponed them. That should be reconsidered again. I hear the formerly existing system was actually designed for a Category 3 hurricane, and this was a Cat 5, even though it didn't hit New Orleans straight on as originally thought.

If you can't reasonably protect the city from this type of disaster happening again, it would make no sense to rebuild.

[Seshmeister]

From the UK Yahoo website....LOL!


http://www.ukdragon.com/b3ta/bush_disaster.jpg

[scamper]

It's pretty tough to beat mother nature when she's throwing cat5s at ya.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Most of the energy of the bullet was absorbed by the donut he was holding...

ok, that's one of the funniest things I've read in a while... :D

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
Apart from the obvious oil operations, what industries are central to New Orleans and is it economically reasonable to rebuild there? I guess that's the first question.


I don't think it's realistic to think that people WON'T rebuild. Of course they will, no matter how stupid it would be.

[Cathedral]

Unfuckinbelievable!!!!

Choppers and boats getting shot at?
So, everything is stalled because we have assholes shooting at those who are trying to help them.

How in the hell do they expect to get help if they are trying to kill the rescuers?

This is fucking insane, and the dude that killed his sister over ice?
How quickly the civilized resort to barbarism.

This is exactly why my ass has been collecting guns and ammo for several years.
And it is exactly why the anti gun rights asswipes will be victims should this sort of thing happen nationwide.

Let this be a lesson to you all, those you know to be rational won't be if society breaks down.

I have yet to see any coverage of the National Guard, where the hell are they? (I know, I know, they're in Iraq).

And it's only going to get worse over the next week as people start getting sick from wading around in contaminated water with no way to get clean anytime soon. they are all covered in bacteria, do the math.

Yet some stupid fucks, most likely gangs, hamper the whole operation
and just make the situation worse for everyone.

Everyone should be banding together and working as a team to help each other out.

I am just dumbfounded at some of the reports...

Oh well, back to work...............

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Unfuckinbelievable!!!!

Choppers and boats getting shot at?
So, everything is stalled because we have assholes shooting at those who are trying to help them.

How in the hell do they expect to get help if they are trying to kill the rescuers?

This is fucking insane, and the dude that killed his sister over ice?
How quickly the civilized resort to barbarism.



I totally agree Cat, except that I'm not sure these people would have qualified as "civilized" even before the storm.

I just can't even fathom firing upon aid workers, turning over their rescue boats, and stealing from them. It boggles the mind.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
From the UK Yahoo website....LOL!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I don't think it's realistic to think that people WON'T rebuild. Of course they will, no matter how stupid it would be.

Let's hope they take the time to study the engineering marvel that is HOLLAND (Denny notwithstanding).

[Seshmeister]

That place is full of dykes...

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=679294


LOL... that's great. How much do you want to bet that it is intentional?

[scamper]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
That place is full of dykes...

sweeeet

[Warham]

They'll have to demolish the Superdome after this is all over, from the reports I've heard.

People defocating in every corner of the stadium, bodies strewn about inside and out, and fires erupting in trash chutes.

[Seshmeister]

'Shitting' is easier to spell...:)

[Warham]

I like big words. :D

A national guardsman said today that New Orleans is 'worse than Baghdad'.

[diamondD]

Fats Domino. other musicians missing... (http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/01/katrina.fatsdomino.ap/index.html)



:(

NEW YORK (AP) -- Fats Domino was missing Thursday, days after Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, said his longtime agent, Al Embry.

Embry told The Associated Press that he hadn't been able to contact Domino since talking to him Sunday evening by phone.

The 77-year-old R&B legend, whose real name is Antoine Domino, told Embry that he planned to stay at his New Orleans house with his wife, Rosemary, and their daughter.

"I hope somebody turns him up, but as of right now, we haven't got anybody that knows where he's at," said Embry, who has worked with Domino for 28 years. "I would think he might be safe because somebody said he was on top of the balcony."

Checquoline Davis, Domino's niece, posted a message on Craigslist.org Thursday pleading for information. Davis wrote that Domino, his wife, their children and grandchildren "didn't get out" of the second floor.

Domino, who has rarely appeared in public in recent years, has a home in the 9th ward, a low-lying area of the flooded city. (Watch a report on the chaos in New Orleans -- 4:36)

Getting information on possible missing persons has been nearly impossible as phone lines for hospitals and police haven't been working. (Evacuees can e-mail to tell people they are safe)

Domino has sold more than 110 million records in his long career, including the legendary singles "Blueberry Hill" and "Ain't That a Shame."

His 1950 recording of "The Fat Man" is sometimes called the first real rock 'n' roll record. He was among the first honorees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How will they get the floodwaters out of a city below sea-level?


Originally posted by Warham
I asked the same question, Nick.

Some guy on FOX said they'll have to pump it out.

Sounds like it'll take years.

I heard on NPR that there is a canal where the water is pumped out of New Orleans to sea. That's where the breeches happened.

I guess the plan is to build gravel roadways in for access, seal the levee with sand bags and other make-shift barriers, then check the rest of the levee, and then begin the pumping...

[Warham]

They said last night it would take one to two months to pump out the water, then another three to six months to rebuild the water systems. Then you've got to sanitize, and test the supply throughout the city. One guy I heard on the radio today said he doesn't really know how long that will take, and it's much worse than they thought.

[bastardog]

When I think in New Orleans situation rigth now, the first thing in my mind is "Good by to the Mardigras".

In my opinion, they must leave the city as it is and move to other place and start again......anyway nomatter if they stay in New Orleans must have to start from cero again.

Leave the city under sea and ten years from now New Orleans will be a leyend as Atlantis.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Unfuckinbelievable!!!!

Choppers and boats getting shot at?
So, everything is stalled because we have assholes shooting at those who are trying to help them. This is fucking insane, and the dude that killed his sister over ice?

How quickly the civilized resort to barbarism.

Indeed

This is exactly why my ass has been collecting guns and ammo for several years.

That's just a bit ironic :D

Let this be a lesson to you all, those you know to be rational won't be if society breaks down.

Another good point.

And it's only going to get worse over the next week as people start getting sick from wading around in contaminated water with no way to get clean anytime soon. they are all covered in bacteria, do the math.

Sorry if I sound selfish, but this has the halmarks of good epidemic starting up.

[ashstralia]

fuck!, everytime it's on the news it reminds me more and more

of 'the stand'.

[diamondD]

Fats Domino Apparently Rescued by Boat By JAKE COYLE, AP Entertainment Writer
Thu Sep 1,11:05 PM ET



NEW YORK - Fats Domino apparently rode out the hurricane in his New Orleans home and was rescued by boat from his flooded neighborhood, his daughter Karen Domino White said Thursday.


The 77-year-old R&B legend had been reported missing Thursday by his longtime agent, Al Embry, and his niece, Checquoline Davis.

White said late Thursday that she saw a photograph of her father that had been taken Monday by the New Orleans Times-Picayune. The photo showed Domino, whose real name is Antoine Domino, in jeans and a blue-striped shirt being helped off a boat by rescuers.

"We're very relieved," White said in a telephone interview.

White said she has been unable to speak to Domino and had no information on his wife, Rosemary, or any other family members in the flooded city.

Domino, who has rarely appeared in public in recent years, has a home in the 9th ward, a low-lying area of the flooded city. On Sunday night, Embry said he spoke over the phone to Domino, who told him that he planned to remain in New Orleans despite the order to evacuate.

Getting information on possible missing persons has been nearly impossible as phone lines for hospitals and police haven't been working.

Domino has sold more than 110 million records in his long career, including the legendary singles "Blueberry Hill" and "Ain't That a Shame."

His 1950 recording of "The Fat Man" is sometimes called the first real rock 'n' roll record. He was among the first honorees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

[Big Fat Sammy]

Fats is safe now....:)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20050902/en_music_eo/17283