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Nickdfresh
09-04-2005, 09:48 AM
Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? 'Times-Picayune' Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues

By Will Bunch

Published: August 31, 2005 9:00 PM ET

PHILADELPHIA Even though Hurricane Katrina has moved well north of the city, the waters may still keep rising in New Orleans. That's because Lake Pontchartrain continues to pour through a two-block-long break in the main levee, near the city's 17th Street Canal. With much of the Crescent City some 10 feet below sea level, the rising tide may not stop until it's level with the massive lake.

New Orleans had long known it was highly vulnerable to flooding and a direct hit from a hurricane. In fact, the federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. When flooding from a massive rainstorm in May 1995 killed six people, Congress authorized the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, or SELA.

Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: "No one can say they didn't see it coming. ... Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation."

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season starting, the Corps' project manager Al Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:

"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn't that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can't raise them."

The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain.

The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs.

There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:

"That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount. But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said."

The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it's too late.

One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer: a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday.

The Newhouse News Service article published Tuesday night observed, "The Louisiana congressional delegation urged Congress earlier this year to dedicate a stream of federal money to Louisiana's coast, only to be opposed by the White House. ... In its budget, the Bush administration proposed a significant reduction in funding for southeast Louisiana's chief hurricane protection project. Bush proposed $10.4 million, a sixth of what local officials say they need."

Local officials are now saying, the article reported, that had Washington heeded their warnings about the dire need for hurricane protection, including building up levees and repairing barrier islands, "the damage might not have been nearly as bad as it turned out to be."

Will Bunch (letters@editorandpublisher.com) is senior writer at the Philadelphia Daily News. He won a Pulitzer Prize in 1992 when he reported for Newsday. Much of this article also appears on his blog, Attytood, at the Daily News.

Link (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313)

DrMaddVibe
09-04-2005, 04:42 PM
http://www.illwillpress.com/kat.html

Nitro Express
09-04-2005, 05:57 PM
You could spend all sorts of money but keeping a city under sea level surrounded by water dry is kind of a fools game. The worst scenero has happened. I say let New Orleans and the surrounding areas turn back into a swamp and move the port farther upstream.

In the past, I read lots of articles on how the levys and the channeling of water were ruining southern Louisianna's wetlands anyways. Well, mother nature fixed it and all the shit, piss, and dead bodies will make great fertilizer to get the plant life growing again.

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 07:48 PM
BUMP motherfuckers!

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 07:52 PM
Did New Orleans Catastrophe Have to Happen? 'Times-Picayune' Had Repeatedly Raised Federal Spending Issues

By Will Bunch
Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.

Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security -- coming at the same time as federal tax cuts -- was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

What's a matter Neo CON bitches? Cat got your tongue?

DrMaddVibe
09-07-2005, 09:00 PM
Blame Amid the Tragedy
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

BY BOB WILLIAMS
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

Mr. Williams is president of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a free market public policy research organization in Olympia, Wash.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 09:03 PM
Wow AssVibe, I post actual articles and you RE-post BUSHeep CYA op-ed pieces. Fuck bag!

Do you actually have an opinion of your own Ms.BitchVibe, or does SEAN HANNITY form your opinion?

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.



True...:(

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 09:07 PM
Funny, no one has addressed the chronic underfunding of the levee system yet.:)

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 09:26 PM
I have mentioned it several times...

diamondD
09-07-2005, 09:32 PM
Nick, it's probably because you keep trying to drum over and over that it's entirely the fed's fault and it wasn't.

FORD
09-07-2005, 09:39 PM
Who the fuck gave Bob Williams a national headline??

Have the neocons finally scraped the bottom of the crazed right wing lunatic barrel that they need to draft this minor league shit for brains failed GOP politician turned lobbyist against anything that interferes with corporate supremacy.

Bob fucking failed ass Williams http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/images/rofl.gif

diamondD
09-07-2005, 09:41 PM
Sorry he doesn't meet up to the personal success standard that you have raised so high, Dave.

But can you factually dispute what he says? FACTUALLY.

BigBadBrian
09-07-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Nick, it's probably because you keep trying to drum over and over that it's entirely the fed's fault and it wasn't.

Exactly.

A city is responsible to itself for it's own improvements, particularly one in such a precarious a position as NO.


If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
When the levee breaks I’ll have no place to stay.
Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Lord, mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.
Don’t it make you feel bad
When you’re tryin’ to find your way home,
You don’t know which way to go?
If you’re goin’ down south
They go no work to do,
If you don’t know about chicago.
Cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
Now, cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin’ ’bout me baby and my happy home.
Going, go’n’ to chicago,
Go’n’ to chicago,
Sorry but I can’t take you.
Going down, going down now, going down.

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Nick, it's probably because you keep trying to drum over and over that it's entirely the fed's fault and it wasn't.

Uh no dude...

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=686773#post686773

I've said I blame ALL LEVELS of gov't for this about three or four times now.

But I get a little nauseated when I see about five of the same op-ed, it's all the mayor's and governor's faults articles...

DLR'sCock
09-07-2005, 10:08 PM
The Hurricane Levee Project was a federal project.

stilleddiesangel
09-07-2005, 10:15 PM
This is something I truly dont understand. NO, like Rotterdam in the Netherlands is one of the most vital ports in the western world and has huge economic importance to the US, as Rotterdam has to mainland Europe. Pretty much the whole of the Netherlands is under sea level and is at risk from the North Sea and the major rivers of Europe. The dutch have spent billions building flood and sea defences. They looked at the worst possible senario and invested to protect the land and it's inhabitants. I really dont understand why N.O. wasn't protected this way also.

diamondD
09-07-2005, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Uh no dude...

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=686773#post686773

I've said I blame ALL LEVELS of gov't for this about three or four times now.

But I get a little nauseated when I see about five of the same op-ed, it's all the mayor's and governor's faults articles...


Oh, I guees I misinterpreted the meaning of the 4 threads on the first page that you started that all seem to be laying the blame on the feds.

Especially this little gem:

A genuinely heroic mayor orders a total evacuation of the city the day before Katrina arrives, knowing that for decades now, New Orleans has been living on borrowed time.

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Oh, I guees I misinterpreted the meaning of the 4 threads on the first page that you started that all seem to be laying the blame on the feds.

Especially this little gem:

A genuinely heroic mayor orders a total evacuation of the city the day before Katrina arrives, knowing that for decades now, New Orleans has been living on borrowed time.

Gee DIAMOND D, I failed to notice any of your own heroic defense of local and state officials, and any criticism of beloved FEARLESS LEADER and his appointed political lackies to FEMA, DHS and such. I was merely compensating for the knee-jerk, right-wing op-ed bullshit. So easy to blame the victims I guess...

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 10:55 PM
Who are you going to blame when the killer earthquake hits Los Angeles ??

Nickdfresh
09-07-2005, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Who are you going to blame when the killer earthquake hits Los Angeles ??

The dick bags Feds that take four days to respond...;)

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 11:04 PM
I thought so...:)

HELLVIS
09-07-2005, 11:19 PM
Any of you guys have flood insurance? Anyone?

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 11:20 PM
Nope...

HELLVIS
09-07-2005, 11:20 PM
Hey Elvis. How are you doin'?

HELLVIS
09-07-2005, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Nope...

Me neither. It's a sucker bet. You can never be fully protected. It's one of the first things they teach you in real estate school. They flat out tell you to avoid purchasing ANY properties in a flood zone. There are just too many loopholes in flood policies.

ELVIS
09-07-2005, 11:27 PM
I'm doing great, thanks for asking...

I don't own any property, I'm a single guy and I rent dirt cheap...


:elvis:

HELLVIS
09-07-2005, 11:35 PM
Glad to hear.

HELLVIS
09-07-2005, 11:38 PM
If you knowingly have sex with a prostitute and catch VD should you blame it on your president? Tawk amongst yourselves.

diamondD
09-07-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Gee DIAMOND D, I failed to notice any of your own heroic defense of local and state officials, and any criticism of beloved FEARLESS LEADER and his appointed political lackies to FEMA, DHS and such. I was merely compensating for the knee-jerk, right-wing op-ed bullshit. So easy to blame the victims I guess...

Nick, I've said this was a fuck up at all levels several times. But I don't have 4 threads laying the blame at one level. I haven't started one thread blaming anyone because I think it's a waste of time right now.

Personally, I've volunteered 2 hours a day of my time working a communication center my company set up for evacuees in my town for them to send emails or make phone calls. I've gathered up all my extra clothes and donated them. I damn sure don't spend all day on here looking for ways to blame people. No, it's not very suspicious that you want to lay all the blame at the federal level. Not with your history. :rolleyes:

Nice spin on the "blame the victims". What the fuck ever.


Compensation, right. Explain who's posting more knee jerk bullshit. Surely not FORD and his "no media allowed in NO" thread.

HELLVIS
09-08-2005, 12:07 AM
Damn DiamondD! We sent a truckload of water down friday, but it never crossed my mind that there might be ways to acually give some of my time. Thanks for the heads up.

diamondD
09-08-2005, 12:08 AM
Great, now on the news they are reporting that the mayor is still saying the mandatory evacuation is still on and the governor is beating her chest saying that it's her call. And she wants to wait on more tests on the water before deciding that.

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by diamondD
Nick, I've said this was a fuck up at all levels several times. But I don't have 4 threads laying the blame at one level. I haven't started one thread blaming anyone because I think it's a waste of time right now.

Personally, I've volunteered 2 hours a day of my time working a communication center my company set up for evacuees in my town for them to send emails or make phone calls. I've gathered up all my extra clothes and donated them. I damn sure don't spend all day on here looking for ways to blame people. No, it's not very suspicious that you want to lay all the blame at the federal level. Not with your history. :rolleyes:

Nice spin on the "blame the victims". What the fuck ever.


Compensation, right. Explain who's posting more knee jerk bullshit. Surely not FORD and his "no media allowed in NO" thread.

Super! I appreciate your help in all this...

But why are you choosing to call me out in "the blame game?" There's about five threads that put the blame soley on BLANCO and NAGIN, you know, the partisan op-ed articles designed to deflect blame away from the Feds that mention school buses and whatnot...

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26894

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26951

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26785

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26729



http://www.rc4systems.net/albums/album04/excuses_excuses.jpg
Of course, it's a little difficult to drive busses during a Cat 5 hurricane, or while waters are overflowing the levee.

And again, I'll post it all in caps: "I AM BLAMING ALL LEVELS OF GOV'T IN THIS." It's the Neo CONS that are trying to deflect all blame to the local and state, not me...

Why did you not address these comments to one of the many staters of the "it's all BLANCOs and NAGINs fault" threads? My threads are actual news articles addressing pertinent issues, such as how effective FEMA is. Again, it an American city is hit with an instantaneous disaster, it's not the N.O. city, nor the Louisiana state gov't that will react to it. And I hope to God their on the ground within the first 24-hours in the future.

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 06:45 AM
Again with the FEMA?

Read up.

http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm

IT's the local AND state's job to be the 1st responders!

diamondD
09-08-2005, 08:35 AM
Nick, all I had to do was read the first one and see you calling the blame on the governor and mayor delusional bullshit and part of the effort to cover up for Bush.

The second post doesn't excuse the federal government at all. It outlines the plans that are in place. It also says FEMA is at fault too.


I don't have to read any farther...

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Again with the FEMA?

Read up.

http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm

IT's the local AND state's job to be the 1st responders!



No shit! The New Orleans Police and Fire were in the city while FEMA stood back while BROWN had his thumbs up his ass...

It's the Federal Gov'ts job to step in during a disaster of this magnitude, and this thread isn't about FEMA....

It's about the LEVEE SYSTEM which was universally acknowledged as underfunded.

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 12:06 PM
Keep reading, you anti-US piece of shit!

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Nick, all I had to do was read the first one and see you calling the blame on the governor and mayor delusional bullshit and part of the effort to cover up for Bush.

Well golly D, aren't you just Ms. Pot-meet-tea- kettle today. Again, why don't you show me your post where you put any sort of accountabilty for the Federal Gov'ts inaction? And I'll galdy dredge up some more right wing op-ed pieces... What's your point anyways?


The second post doesn't excuse the federal government at all. It outlines the plans that are in place. It also says FEMA is at fault too.

I don't have to read any farther...

Yeey! When should I expect you to give WARHAM, Vibe, or BBB any shit for their "it's all NAGIN and BLANCO's" fault CYA op-eds?

Apparently you're not reading any of their posts either....

Then again, I guess you're used to selectively culling things you don't like, eh ex-Pleasure Dome mod?

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well golly D, aren't you just Ms. Pot-meet-tea- kettle today. Again, why don't you show me your post where you put any sort of accountabilty for the Federal Gov'ts inaction? And I'll galdy dredge up some more right wing op-ed pieces... What's your point anyways?



Yeey! When should I expect you to give WARHAM, Vibe, or BBB any shit for their "it's all NAGIN and BLANCO's" fault CYA op-eds?

Apparently you're not reading any of their posts either....

Then again, I guess you're used to selectively culling things you don't like, eh ex-Pleasure Dome mod?

Whatever.

You must have a loose wire to go with that loose cannon of a mouth!

You don't make ANY sense.

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Whatever.

You must have a loose wire to go with that loose cannon of a mouth!

You don't make ANY sense.

Because it wasn't posted to you. Reading comprehension Vibe....really!

diamondD
09-08-2005, 03:11 PM
OOOO Mr Ex-Pleasure-Dome mod. You got me there Nick. Be sure to add ex-Army mod to that too when you address me as such. It means so much to me...


I've posted several times that it's partially everyone's fault. Too bad you can't comprehend anything that doesn't fall in the category of "not enough Bush bashing"


My point? There's plenty of time later to correct the mistakes. These people need as much help as possible NOW.


Go tend to your imaginary sheep...

Guitar Shark
09-08-2005, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Then again, I guess you're used to selectively culling things you don't like, eh ex-Pleasure Dome mod?

I resemble that remark. :mad:

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
OOOO Mr Ex-Pleasure-Dome mod. You got me there Nick. Be sure to add ex-Army mod to that too when you address me as such. It means so much to me...


I've posted several times that it's partially everyone's fault. Too bad you can't comprehend anything that doesn't fall in the category of "not enough Bush bashing"


My point? There's plenty of time later to correct the mistakes. These people need as much help as possible NOW.


Go tend to your imaginary sheep...

Fine, when are you going to rebuke WARHAM and BBB for starting "it's all the mayor's/governors fault" threads again hypowit?

I could give a shit what your opinion is as to who is to blame....Don't come after me with your phoney, holier-than-now shit while you continually ignore my question of why you single me out only...

Put up or shut up asshole!

Warham
09-08-2005, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Fine, when are you going to rebuke WARHAM and BBB for starting "it's all the mayor's/governors fault" threads again hypowit?

I could give a shit what your opinion is as to who is to blame....Don't come after me with your phoney, holier-than-now shit while you continually ignore my question of why you single me out only...

Put up or shut up asshole!

Hey, I've blamed FEMA for their slow response. I chalk alot of that up to red tape buearocracy bullshit.

But let's cut through the crap here. That many people should not have died if the state and city had their shit together beforehand.

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Hey, I've blamed FEMA for their slow response. I chalk alot of that up to red tape buearocracy bullshit.

But let's cut through the crap here. That many people should not have died if the state and city had their shit together beforehand.

Well, I'll grant you that much.

But the preparations for this on every level were "the perfect storm" of stupidity.

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 08:46 PM
Not if they would've followed the "playbook"!

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 09:46 PM
Emergencies & Disasters
Planning & Prevention

National Response Plan: Local/Federal Response Strategies & Coordination Structures

National Response Plan Main Page >> Local/Federal Response Strategies & Coordination Structures

Emphasis on Local Response

All incidents are handled at the lowest possible organizational and jurisdictional level. Police, fire, public health and medical, emergency management, and other personnel are responsible for incident management at the local level. For those events that rise to the level of an Incident of National Significance, the Department of Homeland Security provides operational and/or resource coordination for Federal support to on-scene incident command structures.

Proactive Federal Response to Catastrophic Events

The National Response Plan provides mechanisms for expedited and proactive Federal support to ensure critical life-saving assistance and incident containment capabilities are in place to respond quickly and efficiently to catastrophic incidents. These are high-impact, low-probability incidents, including natural disasters and terrorist attacks that result in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the population, infrastructure, environment, economy, national morale, and/or government functions.

Oooopppps!!:eek:

Multi-Agency Coordination Structures

The National Response Plan establishes multi-agency coordinating structures at the field, regional and headquarters levels. These structures:

* Enable the execution of the responsibilities of the President through the appropriate Federal department and agencies;

* Integrate Federal, State, local, tribal, nongovernmental Organization, and private-sector efforts; and

* Provide a national capability that addresses both site-specific incident management activities and broader regional or national issues, such as impacts to the rest of the country, immediate regional or national actions required to avert or prepare for potential subsequent events, and the management of multiple incidents.

New Coordinating Mechanisms Include

Homeland Security Operations Center (HSOC)

The HSOC serves as the primary national-level multi-agency situational awareness and operational coordination center. The HSOC includes elements of the Department of Homeland Security and other Federal departments and agencies.

* National Response Coordination Center (NRCC)

The NRCC, a functional component of the HSOC, is a multi-agency center that provides overall Federal response coordination.
* Regional Response Coordination Center (RRCC)

At the regional level, the RRCC coordinates regional response efforts and implements local Federal program support until a Joint Field Office is established.

Interagency Incident Management Group (IIMG)

A tailored group of senior level Federal interagency representatives who provide strategic advice to the Secretary of Homeland Security during an actual or potential Incident of National Significance.

Joint Field Office (JFO)

A temporary Federal facility established locally to provide a central point for Federal, State, local, and tribal representatives with responsibility for incident support and coordination.

Principal Federal Official (PFO)

A PFO may be designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security during a potential or actual Incident of National Significance. While individual Federal officials retain their authorities pertaining to specific aspects of incident management, the PFO works in conjunction with these officials to coordinate overall Federal incident management efforts.


Link (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0569.xml)

See, I can quote out of context "emergency planning" too.:)

Here's another "playbook."

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 09:59 PM
III. EVACUATION ORDER

A. Authority

As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness

The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery. The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.

B. Issuance of Evacuation Orders

The person responsible for recognition of hurricane related preparation needs and for the issuance of an evacuation order is the Mayor of the City of New Orleans. Concerning preparation needs and the issuance of an evacuation order, The Office of Emergency Preparedness should keep the Mayor advised.

IV: HURRICANE EVACUATION PROCEDURES

It must be understood that this Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan is an all-hazard response plan, and is applicable to events of all sizes, affecting even the smallest segments of the community. Evacuation procedures for small scale and localized evacuations are conducted per the SOPs of the New Orleans Fire Department and the New Orleans Police Department. However, due to the sheer size and number of persons to be evacuated, should a major tropical weather system or other catastrophic event threaten or impact the area, specifically directed long range planning and coordination of resources and responsibilities efforts must be undertaken.

A. Evacuation Time Requirements

Using information developed as part of the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force and other research, the City of New Orleans has established a maximum acceptable hurricane evacuation time standard for a Category 3 storm event of 72 hours. This is based on clearance time or is the time required to clear all vehicles evacuating in response to a hurricane situation from area roadways. Clearance time begins when the first evacuating vehicle enters the road network and ends when the last evacuating vehicle reaches its destination.

Clearance time also includes the time required by evacuees to secure their homes and prepare to leave (mobilization time); the time spent by evacuees traveling along the road network (travel time); and the time spent by evacuees waiting along the road network due to traffic congestion (delay time). Clearance time does not refer to the time a single vehicle spends traveling on the road network. Evacuation notices or orders will be issued during three stages prior to gale force winds making landfall.

> Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less

> Special Needs Evacuation Order: 8-12 hours after Precautionary Evacuation Notice issued

> General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less

B. Evacuation Zones

Evacuation (vulnerability) zones provide a base to model traffic movements from one geographic area to another. It is necessary to revise the evacuation zones from time to time due to data generated by new generations of storm-surge modeling .

Evacuation zones are designed to meet several functions: (1) In coastal areas they must reflect the areas in each storm scenario which will need to be evacuated due to storm-surge inundation; (2) They should relate as closely as possible to available population data information, such as enumeration districts, census tracts, zip code areas, transportation analysis zones, etc.; and (3) They need to be describable in a manner that persons in the area will be able to understand.

Evacuation zones will be developed pending further study.

C. Evacuation Routing and Traffic Control

New Orleans is surrounded by water. The Lake Pontchartrain Causeway leads to the north, the I-10 twin spans head east, I-10 runs east-west and the Crescent City Connection and the Huey P. Long bridges cross over the Mississippi River. Evacuation presents unique and distinct challenges.

Principle traffic control is provided by the New Orleans Police Department. The movement of evacuating vehicles during a hurricane evacuation requires specific traffic control efforts to insure the maximum roadway capacity and to expedite safe escape from hurricane hazards.

1. Bridge closures will be announced as necessary.

2. NOPD officers will be stationed at critical intersections and roadway segments

3. All available tow trucks shall be positioned along key roadway segments, and disabled vehicles will be removed from traffic lanes. No repairs will be done to vehicles along the evacuation routes.

4. Manual direction of traffic will be supplemented by physical barriers that are adequately weighted and which are placed to channel traffic and prevent unnecessary turning and merging conflicts.

5. The movement of mobile homes and campers along evacuation routes will be banned after a hurricane warning is issued. A disabled mobile home could block the only escape route available. Such vehicles are difficult to handle late in an evacuation due to sporadic wind conditions.

6. Boat owners must be made aware of time requirements for moving or securing vessels. Optimally, industrial and recreational vessels should be moved to safe harbor during or before a hurricane watch.

7. Emergency Response to Accidents/Breakdowns - The intensity of traffic during a hurricane evacuation will always be accompanied by a certain number of traffic accidents and breakdowns. Although roadway shoulders are available for vehicles in distress, the movement of such vehicles to these areas is often difficult and disruptive. It is recommended that at least two traffic control personnel be positioned at each key roadway link/intersection so that one can assist disabled vehicles as needed. Two vehicles should also be positioned at each critical link to facilitate the removal of immobilized vehicles, however, as resources (two vehicles) are available.

8. Safe evacuation is predicated upon the movement of vehicles over critically low points on evacuation routes prior to the occurrence of flooding. Route blockages can happen prior to the arrival of a hurricane. Those roadways that historically experience flooding due to rainfall alone should be monitored for vehicle distress and help.


You really don't like state's rights do you? You'll understand how fucking stupid you are when you realize when, where, why and how the US federal govenment can supercede a state or local government.

One nation...under God.

ELVIS
09-08-2005, 10:02 PM
Thank you, DrMadd...

DrMaddVibe
09-08-2005, 10:08 PM
You're welcome!

Glad to see you back too!

Nickdfresh
09-08-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
III. EVACUATION ORDER

A. Authority

As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness

The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery....


KATRINA TIMELINE

Friday, August 26

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

Saturday, August 27

5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

Sunday, August 28

2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.” [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.” [Times-Picayune]

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26979

Good point, and that's just what they did.:)

Warham
09-09-2005, 07:01 AM
Did the Superdome have 36 hours worth of food?

BigBadBrian
09-09-2005, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Did the Superdome have 36 hours worth of food?

Hell no.

It sure as hell didn't have 36 hours worth of toilet paper either.

:(


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40765000/jpg/_40765970_buses.jpg

diamondD
09-09-2005, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Fine, when are you going to rebuke WARHAM and BBB for starting "it's all the mayor's/governors fault" threads again hypowit?

I could give a shit what your opinion is as to who is to blame....Don't come after me with your phoney, holier-than-now shit while you continually ignore my question of why you single me out only...

Put up or shut up asshole!


What's wrong Nick? Why is it that liberals start using insults as soon as they get called on their BS? BBB and Warham don't post "everything in the universe is GWB's fault" on a daily basis. You jumped all over this as an excuse to bash Bush and I called you out on it. It's nothing to get so hysterical about.

Besides, their buttons aren't so easy to push. It's more fun to watch you. :D

diamondD
09-09-2005, 08:22 AM
You guys have fun arguing this one out. I'm off to see the Stones in NYC next week and then a week of training in Philly. Check in when I can...

diamondD
09-09-2005, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Hell no.

It sure as hell didn't have 36 hours worth of toilet paper either.

:(


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40765000/jpg/_40765970_buses.jpg

Or any security...

diamondD
09-09-2005, 08:39 AM
Besides Nick, weren't you the one calling the initial posts about the county and state "delusional bullshit to cover up fearless leader"?

Nickdfresh
09-09-2005, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by diamondD
What's wrong Nick? Why is it that liberals start using insults as soon as they get called on their BS? BBB and Warham don't post "everything in the universe is GWB's fault" on a daily basis. You jumped all over this as an excuse to bash Bush and I called you out on it. It's nothing to get so hysterical about.

Well my hypocritical friend, I'm calling you on your pretentious bullshit. You're attacking me for what WARHAM, BBB, and AssVibe have been doing all along. I've said several times it basically "all isn't BUSH's fault." In fact, he himself reacted as he should have, but the emergency apparatus he set up SUCKS and is an national embarrassment/tragedy!

But again, answer the fucking question...There are about five threads and numerous posts which soly blame the the governor and mayor. I'm just countering that bullshit.

And frankly, I know why this is an issue, because the Republicans look like incompetent shits in the eyes of the American people. You just don't like it, so you guys are on the local and state blame-fest terror. And you've responded with plenty of insults DD...


Besides, their buttons aren't so easy to push. It's more fun to watch you. :D [/B]

Apparently you haven't been reading posts here, have you? In fact, I'd swear with you popping in the board to post to me three or four times, I think I'm actually pushing your buttons since I keep bringing you back. Besides, I didn't know that a catastrophe should be the grounds to "push buttons," there D. Where's the "we've gotta' help them" attitude. Then go help them, stop spending time on a message board asswipe. I guess you really don't care as much as you pretend to, do you? But I'm really happy that I amuse you though...

Cathedral
09-09-2005, 09:31 AM
It's the school buses that never moved before they were submerged that bugs me.
They had 3 days to act and did nothing.
I like the part where you can't drive a bus in a Cat-5 storm, lmmfao.

The point is that those buses should have already done their jobs before the waves came in.
And the Red Cross should never have been told "NO".
And Blanco being power hungry wouldn't give up her control to save anyone's life.

Yeah, the blame game starts with them, (Blanco and Nagin) and rolls all the way up to that man you love to hate, Bush.

Take a good look, and learn from this.
There won't be any government agency looking out for you should this happen on a larger scale for whatever unforseen reason in the future.

The power will be in the groups who are united and work together.
The rogue mother fucker trying to loot everything from people will be a dead mother fucker pretty quick.
Those who aren't armed will be at the mercy of those who are, think about it, then buy some guns and ammo.

Nickdfresh
09-09-2005, 12:36 PM
You are correct on many things CAT. But not all of the blame regarding the buses should fall on NAGIN:

Link (http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Controversy_over_whether_New_Orleans_Mayor_failed_ to_follow_hurricane_plan)


Or GOOGLE this title since the link is blocked:

Controversy over whether New Orleans Mayor failed to follow hurricane plan

at

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:2005/September#September_4

diamondD
09-09-2005, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh


And frankly, I know why this is an issue, because the Republicans look like incompetent shits in the eyes of the American people. You just don't like it, so you guys are on the local and state blame-fest terror. And you've responded with plenty of insults DD...



Apparently you haven't been reading posts here, have you? In fact, I'd swear with you popping in the board to post to me three or four times, I think I'm actually pushing your buttons since I keep bringing you back. Besides, I didn't know that a catastrophe should be the grounds to "push buttons," there D. Where's the "we've gotta' help them" attitude. Then go help them, stop spending time on a message board asswipe. I guess you really don't care as much as you pretend to, do you? But I'm really happy that I amuse you though...


LOL Mr 43 posts a day is telling someone to get off a message board and go do something? HAHAHAHAHA :D Classic.

diamondD
09-09-2005, 03:54 PM
I guarantee the Republicans aren't the only ones who look like incompentent shits. Best thing that could happen to NO is get rid of everyone in office and start over with actual leaders.

Warham
09-09-2005, 03:55 PM
Liberals have been incompetant in New Orleans for the last sixty years.

Nickdfresh
09-12-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
LOL Mr 43 posts a day is telling someone to get off a message board and go do something? HAHAHAHAHA :D Classic.

Well, I was actually referring to the fact that you come here only to post to me. It seems you have nothing else to cuntribute, except to proclaim that you're an "old-schooler" that nobody gives a shit about and few seem to remember (and whose opinion means nothing) only so you can lecture MEZRO how to run this site (even though you modded at the biggest censorship shithole of all)...

I guess you've elevated talking out of two sides of your ass to an artform.

FORD
09-12-2005, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
I guarantee the Republicans aren't the only ones who look like incompentent shits. Best thing that could happen to NO is get rid of everyone in office and start over with actual leaders.

Does that include Chimpeachment?

Warham
09-12-2005, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Does that include Chimpeachment?

Yep, the governor should be chimpeached.

Nickdfresh
03-04-2007, 03:05 PM
Bump!