UK soldiers 'freed from militia'

[Mr Grimsdale]

UK soldiers 'freed from militia' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm)

Two British soldiers freed after tanks broke into a Basra prison were being held by Shia militiamen, the Ministry of Defence said.
The MoD said the men had been found at a nearby house after troops broke into the city's prison to look for them.

Basra governor Mohammed al-Waili called the Army action a "barbaric act of aggression".

The arrests sparked unrest in which UK tanks came under attack. Reports said two Iraqi civilians were killed.

The two men - thought to be British servicemen working undercover - were accused of opening fire on local police.

An MoD spokesman said: "Two British soldiers were detained and taken to an Iraqi police station. We then started negotiating with the Iraqi authorities for their release.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40818000/jpg/_40818990_both_soldiers203afpcredit.jpg

"We understand that the authorities ordered their release. Unfortunately they weren't released and we became concerned for their safety and as a result a Warrior infantry fighting vehicle broke down the perimeter wall in one place.

We remain committed to helping the Iraqi government

Defence Secretary John Reid


What effect will unrest have?
"Our guys went in there and searched it from top to bottom in order to go and recover our two soldiers who had been detained.

"They weren't there unfortunately but we did obtain intelligence that pointed to where they were. We then launched another operation to recover them, from a house in Basra."

Mr al-Waili said more than 10 tanks and helicopters were used in the operation at the jail.

The MoD denied witness reports to the Associated Press that about 150 prisoners escaped after the demolition of the wall.

Flaming tanks

Earlier, two British tanks sent to the police station where the soldiers were being held, were set alight in clashes.

Crowds of angry protesters hurled petrol bombs and stones, injuring three servicemen and several civilians.

TV pictures showed soldiers in combat gear clambering from one of the flaming tanks and making their escape - three soldiers were reportedly injured.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/uk_enl_1127176586/img/1.jpg

In a statement, Defence Secretary John Reid said the soldiers who fled from the tanks were being treated for minor injuries.

Mr Reid added that he was not certain what had caused the disturbances.

"We remain committed to helping the Iraqi government for as long as they judge that a coalition presence is necessary to provide security," the statement said.

Tensions have been running high in the city since the arrest of a senior figure in the Shia Mehdi Army by UK troops.

But Colonel Tim Collins, the former commander of British troops in Iraq, described the Basra unrest as like a "busy night in Belfast".

Col Collins said it did not represent a breakdown of law and order in Basra, which was still a safer city than Baghdad.

[Nitro Express]

How in the hell do you bring peace to such a country? You have to scare the shit out of them and you are talking about people who are willing to kill themselves to cause trouble. The only way to bring law and order to Iraq is to scare the people shitless. Hmmmm. There was a man who did that well. Maybe we should put Saddam back in power and get the fuck out of there.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
How in the hell do you bring peace to such a country? You have to scare the shit out of them and you are talking about people who are willing to kill themselves to cause trouble. The only way to bring law and order to Iraq is to scare the people shitless. Hmmmm. There was a man who did that well. Maybe we should put Saddam back in power and get the fuck out of there.

I couldn't agree more. I've always said democracy doesn't work everywhere.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Iraq probe into soldier incident (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4264614.stm)

The Iraqi government has launched an inquiry into the events that led the British Army to storm a police station in Basra in search of two UK soldiers.
Both men were members of the SAS elite special forces, sources told the BBC's Richard Galpin in Baghdad.

The soldiers were arrested by police and then handed over to a militia group, the British Army says.

Iraq's interior ministry ordered the police force in Basra to release the soldiers but that order was ignored.

Instead they ended up in the hands of Shia militia, prompting the flattening of a wall at the police station and the later dramatic rescue, the Ministry of Defence said.

Basra governor Mohammed al-Waili said the men - possibly working undercover - were arrested for allegedly shooting dead a policeman and wounding another.

Richard Galpin said al-Jazeera news channel footage, purportedly of the equipment carried in the men's car, showed assault rifles, a light machine gun, an anti-tank weapon, radio gear and medical kit.

This is thought to be standard kit for the SAS operating in such a theatre of operations, he said.

The arrests sparked angry protests from locals in which British vehicles were attacked and set on fire.

Haydar al-Abadi, a spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari, said the British rescue had been "a very unfortunate development".

"My understanding is that, first, it happened very quickly. Second, there is lack of discipline in the whole area regarding this matter...

"It is a very unfortunate development that the British forces should try to release their soldiers the way it happened, it's very unfortunate."

Soon afterwards, the Iraqi prime minister's office released a statement insisting there was no crisis in relations with the British.

"In response to recent events in Basra, the Iraqi government wants to clarify that there is no 'crisis' - as some media have claimed - between it and the British government.

"Both governments are in close contact, and an inquiry will be conducted by the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior into the incident.

"We will await the outcome of that inquiry. In the meantime we urge all sides to remain calm."

Brigadier John Lorimer said it was of "deep concern" the men detained by police ended up held by Shia militia, something that put their lives in danger.

In a statement, Brig Lorimer said that under Iraqi law the soldiers should have been handed over to coalition authorities, but this failed to happen despite repeated requests.

He said the British vehicles attacked outside the police station had been attempting to maintain a cordon because it was obvious from a very early stage that the two British captives were in danger. Three British soldiers were injured in the melee, with a number of Iraqi casualties.

After troops broke into the police station to confirm the men were not there, they staged a rescue from a house in Basra, said the commanding officer of 12 Mechanised Brigade in Basra.

BBC Defence Correspondent Paul Wood said local police revealed the whereabouts of the two men after the station was stormed.

In a statement, Defence Secretary John Reid said the soldiers were being treated for minor injuries.

Mr Reid said: "We remain committed to helping the Iraqi government for as long as they judge that a coalition presence is necessary to provide security."

The Conservatives' defence spokesman Michael Ancram has accused the government of "uncertainty" over its strategy in Iraq, while the Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy said Iraq was drifting towards civil war.

The BBC's Paul Wood said none of Basra's 20,000 police officers had helped the UK troops "partly because of reticence by their commanders, partly because, I am afraid, they have been infiltrated by these militants".

Tensions were already high in Basra on Monday morning following the detention on Sunday of a senior figure in the Shia Mehdi Army, suspected of being behind a series of attacks on British troops.

[Nitro Express]

It was a mistake going against Saddam in the first Gulf War. Saddam Hussain was one of our best allies in the middle east. We label him as a monster now but he was torturing people to dead when he was our friend and allie against the evil Iran. We should have let Saddam take Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. He likes money, he would sell us the oil and he was very good at eliminating radical Islamic insurgency. He used chemical weapons on the fuckers and had an excellent secret police.

Saddam was a muslim but not a very good one. He loved western things and loved to break every rule in the Koran like drinking wonderful single malt scotch. He was a dictator you could do business with, hell the French and United Nations loved the guy. Try striking under the table oil deals with a guy like Osama Bin Ladden and see how far you get.

What we have done is replaced a monster who was really on our side before we attacked him and created multiple monsters in his place. Saddam never attacked our country. He declared war against us when we attacked him over the invasion of Kuwait. Saddam never had weapons of mass destruction. He rebuilt his palaces and sold oil.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Insurgents 'inside Iraqi police' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4266304.stm)

Insurgents have infiltrated Iraq's security services, National Security Adviser Muwafaq al-Rubaie has admitted.
Speaking on the BBC's Newsnight programme, he said he had no idea how far the services had been undermined, with problems "in many parts of Iraq".

It comes after the British Army said it was forced to take action to free two UK soldiers after learning Iraqi police had handed them to a militia group.

The Pentagon warned in July that Iraq's police force was recruiting insurgents.

'Clean up police'

The Iraqi government has launched an inquiry into events surrounding the arrest of the British soldiers on Monday, both thought to be members of the SAS elite special forces.

Iraq's interior ministry ordered the police force in the southern city of Basra to release the soldiers - but that order was ignored.

The British Army said the troops had been handed over by police to a Shia militia group.

The men were freed after British troops in armoured vehicles stormed a Basra prison and then a house to which the captives had been taken.

Mr Rubaie told Newsnight: "Our Iraqi security forces in general, and these in particular and in many parts of Iraq, I have to admit that they have been penetrated by some of the insurgents, some of the terrorists as well, so I can't deny this."

He said Iraq now had "a very scrupulous, very meticulous vetting procedure" to "clean our security forces, as well as stop any penetration in future from the insurgents or the terrorists".

He admitted he did not know to what extent the security forces were already infiltrated by insurgents.

Criminals in ranks

However, Mr Rubaie criticised the British military's use of force instead of negotiation in freeing its troops on Monday.

"They could have been freed in a much more peaceful, much more friendly and amicable way than that," he said.

Lessons would be learned so that similar incidents could be avoided in the future, he said.

A report released by the US defence department in July said Iraq's police force was recruiting insurgents and former criminals to its ranks.

It blamed poor vetting procedures and recommended that the quality of records at Iraq's interior ministry be checked.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
It was a mistake going against Saddam in the first Gulf War......


Saddam never had weapons of mass destruction. He rebuilt his palaces and sold oil.

Geez, where do people come up with this shit?

Ask the Kurds and Iranians about the WMD's.

:gulp:

[Mr Grimsdale]

Yep, in the 80's and early 90's he certainly had them, but there's not much evidence that he had any in the build up to 2003.

[Nickdfresh]

Basra officials cut ties over raid

Friday, September 23, 2005; Posted: 4:42 a.m. EDT (08:42 GMT)

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Officials in Basra say they will not cooperate with Britain until the restive southern Iraqi city receives an apology and compensation after a British raid to free two soldiers.

In a telephone interview, Mohammed Al-Ubadi, head of the Basra Governing Council, told CNN that a meeting was held Thursday including the 41 members of the Basra Governing Council and British government representatives regarding the raid.

Ubadi said: "Our decision is to cut off our relations with the Multinational Forces until we receive a formal apology from the British government for this act.

"We also ask for the return of two detainees to Iraqi custody, compensation for the casualties that resulted, and compensation to the major crimes unit for the destruction of the facility."

Ubadi told CNN the two detainees were being held because they were found with several weapons, had killed a civilian, and had beat an Iraqi police officer.

They had been wearing traditional Arabic clothing and were not dressed as soldiers. He said they wanted these detainees to be handed over to the Basra authorities and to be tried before a judge in a legitimate trial.

"Five Iraqi civilians were killed and 44 wounded as a result of the fighting that happened because of this raid," Ubadi said.

"The people of Basra have always worked with the British military and if they wanted the release of these individuals they could have gone through official channels to get them released we still don't know who they are and the major crimes unit detained them for a reason. They were suspicious characters and we still don't know who they are or what they were up to.

"We reject this action and it brought the city to chaos. The people of Basra are peaceful people and this action is against the sovereignty of Iraq."

He said the Basra Governing Council would continue to investigate the matter with the local police until it was solved.

The raid took place Monday after a British commander said he feared that the two British undercover soldiers had been handed over to a militia group.

A British armored vehicle escorted by a tank crashed into a detention center looking for the two soldiers.

The British forces said the pair had been held at a police jail but were then taken to a house -- apparently held by Shiite militia. When it was determined the two were not at the detention center, the house was stormed and British official said the two soldiers were rescued.

The British military entered the police station and a Warrior armored vehicle crashed through the perimeter wall of the jail.

The dramatic operation Monday followed a day of rioting in the southern Iraqi city, sparked when the two soldiers were said by police and local officials to have fired on an Iraqi police patrol.

Brigadier John Lorimer said he had a "deep concern" the men detained by police were later handed over to Shiite militia.

"From an early stage I had good reason to believe the lives of the two soldiers were at risk," Lorimer said in a statement issued to the media Tuesday.

He said the British military went "to exhaustive lengths" to secure the freedom of the soldiers. The Iraqi interior minister personally ordered their release, he said, but the order was ignored.

CNN Producer Kianne Sadeq contributed to this report.

Copyright 2005 CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/22/iraq.basra/index.html). All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.