The Pope to exclude gay priests [Archive] - The Diamond David Lee Roth Army

ELVIS

09-22-2005, 11:59 PM

23/09/2005 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/23/wgay23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/09/23/ixportal.html)

The Roman Catholic Church is preparing to bar homosexuals from becoming priests even if they are celibate in what could prove to be a defining act of Benedict XVI's papacy.

An "instruction" spelling out the policy has been drafted by the Congregation for Catholic Education and Seminaries.

Pope Benedict XVI considers homosexuality 'disordered'
Vatican officials say it is expected to be published within weeks. The long-awaited policy review was initiated three years ago by the late Pope John Paul II, who died in April.

It has been fought over bitterly among the Catholic hierarchy amid fears that it will trigger a witch hunt against gay clergy and increase the current shortage of candidates to the priesthood.

But conservatives say it is needed to redress the balance after a period of liberalisation in theological colleges, particularly in America.

The news of the impending publication was leaked to the American press in what some Vatican insiders believe could be a ploy to test the level of feeling about the issue among Catholics in America.

Gay Catholic groups in the US fear that the document could make homosexuals a scapegoat for the child abuse scandals that hit the Catholic Church in America in 2002.

More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males.

Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body charged with looking into the abuse claims, is said to have been horrified by many of the cases.

He has made clearing up the image of the Church one of the priorities of his papacy.

He has also consistently taken a hard line on homosexuality, condemning it as "intrinsically disordered".

While the exact wording of the instruction is not known, sources believe that it will indicate that candidates for the priesthood who identify themselves as homosexual should be barred, even if they are sexually abstinent, because their condition could detract from their ministry.

Many Vatican officials are determined to suppress what they see as a growing gay sub-culture in the priesthood.

Liberals fear, however, that a crackdown will drive the issue underground and set the Church back by decades.

The publication of the document will coincide with an evaluation that starts this month by Church investigators into America's 229 seminaries.

The investigators will, among other things, be looking for "evidence of homosexuality" and whether seminarians are being properly prepared for celibacy.

:elvis:

FORD

09-23-2005, 12:56 AM

I thought you considered Catholicism a "false religion", Elvis?

So why would you applaud them for being homophobes if God doesn't recognize them anyway?

FORD

09-23-2005, 12:58 AM

BTW, Ratzinger is one seriously fucked up backwards individual.

John Paul was hardly a progressive, but at least he was willing to see the reality that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice or a "disorder"

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 01:06 AM

I don't consider it totally false anymore, I'm not sure If I ever said that, maybe so...

I'm kinda upset by some of the former Catholics in our church who bash the religion now that they feel they found Jesus...

I do consider alot of the Catholic doctrine to be man made nonsense, especially the works tacked onto salvation, but to each his own, who am I to say...

Having said that, maybe this Pope will steer the Catholic church closer to true Biblical Christianity...

:elvis:

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by FORD
BTW, Ratzinger is one seriously fucked up backwards individual.

John Paul was hardly a progressive, but at least he was willing to see the reality that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice or a "disorder"

EVERYTHING is a matter of choice!

:elvis:

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 01:20 AM

Homosexuality is a sin, not Homophobia.
Just like abortion is murder, not a "Choice" that we have a right to make.

You can cloud the issue with pretty words all you want but you can't change the will of God based on social acceptance.

These things aren't pleasing to God, bro.

The Catholic Church is doing the right thing.
Now if they would just prosecute those who abused children to set an example of what future abusers will face if they choose to do the works of Satan and harm a child seeking a life of faith.

FORD

09-23-2005, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by ELVIS
EVERYTHING is a matter of choice!

:elvis:

Bullshit. I can't choose to be black. I can't choose to be 5' 2". I can't choose to have curly hair, or to be left handed. Or to be gay.

Because none of the above is in my genetic makeup. I wasn't born with any of the above, and the closest I could come to faking any of them is to perm my hair out and look like Sammy Hagar.

Which I don't think I'll be doing.

So if there is a 5'2" left handed gay black guy out there who wants to choose to be a right handed blonde heterosexual, I'd like to know how he plans to do so.

Some things simply are NOT choices.

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 01:23 AM

Amen Cat!

:elvis:

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by FORD
Bullshit. I can't choose to be black. I can't choose to be 5' 2". I can't choose to have curly hair, or to be left handed. Or to be gay.

Because none of the above is in my genetic makeup. I wasn't born with any of the above, and the closest I could come to faking any of them is to perm my hair out and look like Sammy Hagar.

Which I don't think I'll be doing.

So if there is a 5'2" left handed gay black guy out there who wants to choose to be a right handed blonde heterosexual, I'd like to know how he plans to do so.

Some things simply are NOT choices.

Are you gay?
If not then how do you know that it isn't a choice?
Because that is what you were told by gay people?

I'm not gay, but i could be if i wanted to be but that isn't the choice i made for myself. Women are more fun and designed to connect with my body parts the way it was intended to be.

You don't have that with gay people.
It's like trying to plug a plug into a plug, but it doesn't work without a female connection...we call them outlets.

Men and Women fit together like a puzzle.
You don't have that with gay people.

A link of chain for instance.
The chain only works properly if one ring is fittied through the loop of another ring. otherwise there is no connection, the chain doesn't work.
You can butt the two ends together and weld it, but it will break under a load.
No, the only way a chain works is if you connect the links one through the other...it's natural for a male to require a female to be complete.

Um, you don't get that or anything like that with gay people.
The parts aren't compatitble at all.

But sure, go ahead and get under an engine hoisted by your welded chain and put your faith in it working.
Just remember, if you are wrong the result will be death and it's too late to turn back then.

FORD

09-23-2005, 02:59 AM

Originally posted by Cathedral
Are you gay?
If not then how do you know that it isn't a choice?
Because that is what you were told by gay people?

No, it's what I observed in gay people, some of whom are in my own family. All of them attempted to live heterosexual lives. Some even were married (to someone of the opposite sex) for a while. But it doesn't change the reality that they are, in fact, gay.

You say you could "choose" to be gay. If that's so, prove it. Find some guy and see if you can be genuinely attracted to him. And then, if you can actually accomplish that, have sex with the guy.

Of course, I only say this because I know it won't happen. Because you could no more choose to be gay than Gary Cherone could choose to be straight.

I'm not gay, but i could be if i wanted to be but that isn't the choice i made for myself. Women are more fun and designed to connect with my body parts the way it was intended to be.

You don't have that with gay people.
It's like trying to plug a plug into a plug, but it doesn't work without a female connection...we call them outlets.

Men have two of the same three "outlets" that women do.

Men and Women fit together like a puzzle.
You don't have that with gay people.

They would say otherwise. These days there are gay relationships that last long or longer than most heterosexual marriages. Obviously they must "fit together" somehow.

A link of chain for instance.
The chain only works properly if one ring is fittied through the loop of another ring. otherwise there is no connection, the chain doesn't work.
You can butt the two ends together and weld it, but it will break under a load.
No, the only way a chain works is if you connect the links one through the other...it's natural for a male to require a female to be complete.

Um, you don't get that or anything like that with gay people.
The parts aren't compatitble at all.

But sure, go ahead and get under an engine hoisted by your welded chain and put your faith in it working.
Just remember, if you are wrong the result will be death and it's too late to turn back then.

That analogy doesn't work at all. If you're going to compare a chain to a relationship, than the strength of the relationship depends on the commitment of the individuals involved. A lifelong committment between two people doesn't depend on the genders of either party, it depends on what's in their hearts and their minds.

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 03:27 AM

Damn, that was a pretty fast reply, lol.

But i am not questioning the ability of two gay people being able to love each other for a lifetime.
If that is what they "choose" for themselves then it could be a very successful relationship.

It is not natural for a man to lay with a man as he does with a woman.
If it were the natural order to be attracted to the same sex how would the population grow?
Gay people can't reproduce, so extinction of the species would have been the reality if everyone were gay.

It goes against nature and for people to think otherwise is saying God isn't perfect, and he most certainly is perfect.

How would a gay world be fruitful and multiply?
They wouldn't and we would be doomed to that single generation.

It isn't natural, and what are your qualifications to conclude that it is indeed genetic simply by observation?
Oh, and heterosexual relationships could last as long or longer if the people weren't so inclined to lean to their own understanding believing that they are in control of their destiny.
Their life is all they can control, beyond that our existance is determined by God.

I'm not convinced that it isn't a choice.

But i am convinced that we are only having this discussion because of Liberalism.

Warham

09-23-2005, 07:17 AM

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

That should be the final word for anyone who believes in scripture as the Word of God. New Testament too, for those who think the Old Testament is somehow 'outdated'.

Nickdfresh

09-23-2005, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by ELVIS
...
I do consider alot of the Catholic doctrine to be man made nonsense, especially the works tacked onto salvation, but to each his own, who am I to say...

I consider most Christian doctrine to be man-made nonsense.

Having said that, maybe this Pope will steer the Catholic church closer to true Biblical Christianity...

A scary thought indeed considering what the Bible has to say...

:elvis: [/B][/QUOTE]

Nickdfresh

09-23-2005, 08:19 AM

I guess slavery is alright according to the Bible as well...

Murder and Slavery

The tribe of Benjamin, however, failed to drive out the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem. So to this day the Jebusites live in Jerusalem among the people of Benjamin. The descendants of Joseph attacked the town of Bethel, and the LORD was with them. They sent spies to Bethel (formerly known as Luz), who confronted a man coming out of the city. They said to him, "Show us a way into the city, and we will have mercy on you." So he showed them a way in, and they killed everyone in the city except for this man and his family. Later the man moved to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city. He named the city Luz, and it is known by that name to this day. The tribe of Manasseh failed to drive out the people living in Beth-shan, Taanach, Dor, Ibleam, Megiddo, and their surrounding villages, because the Canaanites were determined to stay in that region.

When the Israelites grew stronger, they forced the Canaanites to work as slaves, but they never did drive them out of the land. The tribe of Ephraim also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Gezer, and so the Canaanites continued to live there among them. The tribe of Zebulun also failed to drive out the Canaanites living in Kitron and Nahalol, who continued to live among them. But they forced them to work as slaves. The tribe of Asher also failed to drive out the residents of Acco, Sidon, Ahlab, Aczib, Helbah, Aphik, and Rehob. In fact, because they did not drive them out, the Canaanites dominated the land where the people of Asher lived. The tribe of Naphtali also failed to drive out the residents of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath. Instead, the Canaanites dominated the land where they lived. Nevertheless, the people of Beth-shemesh and Beth-anath were sometimes forced to work as slaves for the people of Naphtali. As for the tribe of Dan, the Amorites forced them into the hill country and would not let them come down into the plains. The Amorites were determined to stay in Mount Heres, Aijalon, and Shaalbim, but when the descendants of Joseph became stronger, they forced the Amorites to work as slaves. (Judges 1:21-35 NLT)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

Hey, you can even rape your slaves if you feed and clothe them.;)

knuckleboner

09-23-2005, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Cathedral

It goes against nature and for people to think otherwise is saying God isn't perfect, and he most certainly is perfect.

How would a gay world be fruitful and multiply?
They wouldn't and we would be doomed to that single generation.

so is infertility a choice? there are heterosexuals who are unable to have children. most did not choose this. whether it's by disease or a congenital defect. if we were all infertile (as some are) we would be doomed to just that single generation.

is this evidence that God isn't perfect?

knuckleboner's answer: no. God is perfect. man is not. God made a real world, not a perfect one. suffering, hardships, disease, deformities are all a part of this world.

is it so inconceivable that there is a mutated gene / chromosone that causes an attraction to the same sex?

BigBadBrian

09-23-2005, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I consider most Christian doctrine to be man-made nonsense.

[/B][/QUOTE]

It's unanimous then.

All of what Nick says is nonsense.

All those in agreement say "Aye."

:gulp:

Nickdfresh

09-23-2005, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

It's unanimous then.

All of what Nick says is nonsense.

All those in agreement say "Aye."

:gulp:
**Crickets churping...**

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 11:51 AM

Aye!

:elvis:

Angel

09-23-2005, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
EVERYTHING is a matter of choice!

:elvis:

BULLSHIT - Sexual orientation is NOT a matter of choice. Your fucking born with it. and YES, I DO KNOW!!!

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 01:31 PM

Yeah right...

FORD

09-23-2005, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence [sic] of their error which was meet."

That should be the final word for anyone who believes in scripture as the Word of God. New Testament too, for those who think the Old Testament is somehow 'outdated'.

These are not the words of God, they are the words of Paul (a.k.a. Saul of Tarsus)

Saul was one hateful son of a bitch before he took that road trip down the Damascus Turnpike. And as any one who claims to be a Christian would have to admit, your old nature does NOT cease to exist after the "born again" experience. Paul himself writes about his battle against his "old man" and it wasn't a reference to his father.

One thing that we know for a fact Paul retained prejudice against was sex. Not just gay sex, but all sex. Paul even considered marriage to be wrong for someone who wanted to be truly committed to God

1 Corinthians 7

7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

So in other words, celibacy is preferred over all, but marriage is an acceptable alternative to Hell??

This dude had some serious fucking ISSUES. And yet the Catholic Church modeled their entire priesthood after this one man's personal problems.

Paul wrote some good things in the Bible (this wasn't one of them) but he isn't my authority on anything, Jesus Christ is.

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 01:36 PM

Jesus didn't disagree with his words...

FORD

09-23-2005, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Jesus didn't disagree with his words...

Jesus wasn't around to give His opinion of Paul's writings.

But when Jesus was around, he didn't condemn homosexuals.

Furthermore, the Old Testament justification for homophobia is said to be the Sodom & Gommorah story in Genesis, or the handbook for Levite priests which was never intended for public review (Leviticus)

Yet when God compiled His "Top 10 list of things that really piss Me off" and gave them to Moses, there wasn't a word about homosexuals in there.

Now if God really nuked all of Sodom County over a couple of queers, don't you think it would rate a little higher than "Don't make graven images" or "Remember to go to church on Sunday".

The modern quotataion of Leviticus is the real joke, with blowhard pastors dressed in wool/polyester blend suits, their faces cleanly shaved, bellowing about the "abomination" of homosexuality within an hour of eating their bacon & egg breakfast. And if the good reverend just happenned to forget to wash his hands between the toilet and the pulpit, that makes his abomination score for the morning 4. And that's on a Sunday!!

Those of you Biblical literalists out there who claim that EVERY word in the Bible is from God (even the part where bats are called birds and the world is flat??) need to explain yourselves. If Leviticus is still the law, then why don't you have beards like the Muslims or the Hasidics?

Ever had sex with a woman when she's on the rag? See you in Hell!

Think about that while you order that Ultimate Cheeseburger Abomination at Jack in the Box ;)

steve

09-23-2005, 02:05 PM

http://www.agrandillusion.com/empirestrikesback.jpg
All Hail Darth Benedict XVI!

FORD

09-23-2005, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by steve
http://www.agrandillusion.com/empirestrikesback.jpg
All Hail Darth Benedict XVI!

And I used to think the Lieberman-Palpatine resemblance was frightening.

Warham

09-23-2005, 04:18 PM

Yeah, I believe every word in the Bible is from God, including the Old Testament. Jesus agrees with me!

Quoted from an article:

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, "The Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as "the commandment of God" (Matthew 15:3) and as the "Word of God" (Matthew 15:6). He also indicated that it was indestructible: "Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished" (Matthew 5:18). Notice that he mentions even the words and letters!

When dealing with the people of His day, whether it was with the disciples or religious rulers, Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament: "Have you not read that which was spoken to you by God?" (Matthew 22:31); "Yea; and have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes thou hast prepared praise for thyself'?" (Matthew 21:16, citing Psalm 8:2); and "Have you not read what David did?" (Matthew 12:3). Examples could be multiplied to demonstrate that Jesus was conversant with the Old Testament and its content. He quoted from it often and He trusted it totally.

He confirmed many of the accounts in the Old Testament, such as the destruction of Sodom and the death of Lot's wife (Luke 17:29, 32), the murder of Abel by his brother Cain (Luke 11:51), the calling of Moses (Mark 12:26), the manna given in the wilderness (John 6:31-51), the judgment upon Tyre and Sidon (Matthew 1-1:21), and many others.

Not only did Jesus confirm the historicity of these accounts, He also authenticated some of the passages that are most disputed today. Many modern scholars do not believe that Moses wrote the first five books of the Old Testament, but Jesus did (see Matthew 19:8, 9; John 7:19; Mark 12:29-31).
Some modern scholars also assume the existence of more than one Isaiah, but Jesus believed in only one. In Luke 4:17-21, He cites Isaiah 61:1, 2 (the so-called second Isaiah or Deutero-Isaiah) while in Matthew 15:7-9 He refers to the first part of Isaiah's work (Isaiah 6:9) without the slightest hint of more than one author.

The account of Daniel is rejected today by many as actually coming from the pen of Daniel, but the Lord Jesus believed him to be a prophet (Matthew 24:15). The account of Adam and Eve often is ridiculed today as legend, but Jesus believed the story to be true (Matthew 19:1-6).

Likewise, the narrative of Noah and the great flood not only is authenticated by Jesus (Matthew 24:37), it also is used as an example of His second coming. Finally, the most unbelievable of all-the account of Jonah and the great fish-is used by Jesus as a sign of His resurrection (Matthew 12:39ff).

It almost seems as though Jesus was anticipating 20th century biblical criticism when He authenticated these accounts. The con-clusion is simple. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct. Many want to accept Jesus, but also want to reject a large portion of the Old Testament. This option is not available. Either Jesus knew what He was talking about or He did not. The evidence is clear that Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God's Word; His attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust.

DLR'sCock

09-23-2005, 05:39 PM

How about banning pedophile priests.....

DLR'sCock

09-23-2005, 05:40 PM

Most of you know nothing of God, you are so lost in your own selfish delusion. Of course, there is plenty of time to learn. It is, as it should be.

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by knuckleboner
so is infertility a choice? there are heterosexuals who are unable to have children. most did not choose this. whether it's by disease or a congenital defect. if we were all infertile (as some are) we would be doomed to just that single generation.

is this evidence that God isn't perfect?

knuckleboner's answer: no. God is perfect. man is not. God made a real world, not a perfect one. suffering, hardships, disease, deformities are all a part of this world.

is it so inconceivable that there is a mutated gene / chromosone that causes an attraction to the same sex?

No, infertility is not a choice, it happens for whatever reason it happens, i call it fate.
But for the sake of argument I do know of people who were infertile that ultimately did end up concieving.

There is no such blessing for a homosexual relationship without medical intervention (which requires opposite sex participation) or adoption.

And I absolutely believe that God is perfect in every way.
We don't know the reasons for a lot of things that go on in this world, but there is purpose for everything we experience in life individually. each and every individuals relationship with God is a personal one.

The key to the word of God is to live every day in a fashion that is pleasing to God.
It really isn't that much different than how we interact with our own children.
We teach them right and wrong and then they either follow the example or dissapoint us at every stop, same deal between us and God.
We have the tools to learn the truth, it's up to us to follow that example or do our own thing.

The only wrench thrown into that is that once a families bloodline starts down a Godless path that example will continue from one generation to the next. call it a Generational Curse if you will, i do.
But that cycle won't be broken until someone breaks it and leads their future generations towards God.

I think that people's biggest mistake is thinking that the Devil isn't real in the world. Lord knows i fall on my face more times than i'm comfortable with. I have even on occasion blamed God for things in my life that there is no earthly answer for and i feel so overwhelmed by.
But that is Satans plan, to turn everyone against God, to make everyone think and believe that they are their own God and can go ahead and live how they choose without consequence.

But that isn't the way of it, Satan is as real as God and everyone is assigned a Demon that twists and distorts everything Holy in order to achieve the ultimate goal of destroying us.
Satan wants everyone and has access to everyone where God requires us to seek him out and ask for salvation, he expects us to make a "choice".
That's the idea behind the concept of Free Will, we have a choice in every aspect of what we do in life.

But everyone has their cross to bear be it infertility, retardation etc.
There is a purpose for all things but we don't have the right to know what that purpose is for anyone but ourselves.
And unless we choose to take that journey on faith and believe in our hearts that God is real and living in us...we'll never find our true purpose in life.

I've been close, but Satan has my number and i lack the faith at this point to complete that journey.
But i do know that for as long as the Devil torments us, it proves to me that he hasn't won yet and the battle is not over.

If he had won already he wouldn't keep attacking, and believe me, there is clearly an internal battle raging in my soul as much as i bet there is in everyone, or was.

But you asked a question about the possibility of a mutated gene or chromosome that attracts people to the same sex.
I haven't seen any evidence of it, but i am quite sure the Devil wants people to believe there is. he's been pretty successful at that from what i do see.

The greatest trick of all time is the one where Satan convinced the entire world that he or God doesn't exist.
But the evidence is all around us that God does exist, and it goes without saying that as sure as their is Good in the world, there is also Evil.
One presents himself to us (Satan), the other we have to seek out (God).

The wider path is full of travelers, the narrow path is where we walk alone in faith.
It's whats at the end of those paths that makes all the difference in the world.

But it begins with a "choice"...

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 05:44 PM

Amen Warham...

Nice post!

:elvis:

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 05:47 PM

There's that choice thing again, Cat...;)

:elvis:

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 05:55 PM

Ain't it a bitch!

thome

09-23-2005, 06:06 PM

Why do homosexuals act / dress like a woman and cut their cocks off or tuck under
if its genetic.Fags are deviant freeks who need to just realize- no matter what i think im Not A disgustingly over egsagerated(sp) caracature
of what my fuked up head thinks a woman is-.

If i was a woman i would be offended at this more than what a sexist
hetero male sais when i walk by .

Oh yeah just cause you carry a purse doesnt mean you have any concept of what it i to BE a woman or what a woman has to go thru.

Warham

09-23-2005, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Amen Warham...

Nice post!

:elvis:

Thanks, Elvis! ;)

thome

09-23-2005, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by thome
Why do homosexuals act / dress like a woman and cut their cocks off or tuck under
if its genetic.Fags are deviant freeks who need to just realize- no matter what i think im Not A disgustingly over egsagerated(sp) caracature
of what my fuked up head thinks a woman is-.

If i was a woman i would be offended at this more than what a sexist
hetero male sais when i walk by .

Oh yeah just cause you carry a purse doesnt mean you have any concept of what it i to BE a woman or what a woman has to go thru.
My whole theory here has nothing to do with Priests my point is
raping little boys is sick deviant bullsh@t not a ganetic defect a priest or any man who does this should be shot in the face w a howitzer.

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Angel
BULLSHIT - Sexual orientation is NOT a matter of choice. Your fucking born with it. and YES, I DO KNOW!!!

Could you explain how it is that you know this?

I'd like to take your word for it, but i require more information on what makes you the fact claiming authority on the matter.

Nobody else has offered a valid explanation on how this is the gospel to the gay community.

I require proof positive evidence that supports these claims.

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 06:22 PM

Of which there is none...

Angel

09-23-2005, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Cathedral
Could you explain how it is that you know this?

I'd like to take your word for it, but i require more information on what makes you the fact claiming authority on the matter.

Nobody else has offered a valid explanation on how this is the gospel to the gay community.

I require proof positive evidence that supports these claims.

I'm not gay, but I am bi-sexual. My panties get wetter when I look at naked women than when I look at men. That's proof enough for me... It's been that way as long as I can remember, before I even knew what sex was.

It is "gospel to the gay community" because we know what turns us on, and it's something we were aware of even before we learned how to tie our own shoes.

DLR'sCock

09-23-2005, 07:01 PM

So I assume all of the God Fearing, fag Hating, tough guys here must have serious problems with women going down on each other, women kissing each other, women fucking each other?

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 09:56 PM

It's not right...

Alot of people are turned on by crack, does that make it ok ??

How about people who are turned on by children ??

:elvis:

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Angel
I'm not gay, but I am bi-sexual. My panties get wetter when I look at naked women than when I look at men. That's proof enough for me... It's been that way as long as I can remember, before I even knew what sex was.

It is "gospel to the gay community" because we know what turns us on, and it's something we were aware of even before we learned how to tie our own shoes.

Thank you for the straight forward answer, I appreciate it.
But it isn't proof enough for me personally because it could still be a choice based on your answer.
I was kind of hoping you had a more scientific/medical point of view.

I believe that the only thing that is pre-determined is our gender.
Which gender we are attracted to appears to be the result of conditioning or choice in my opinion.

Thanks anyway!

Warham

09-23-2005, 10:05 PM

Cathedral

09-23-2005, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
So I assume all of the God Fearing, fag Hating, tough guys here must have serious problems with women going down on each other, women kissing each other, women fucking each other?

I do, you don't see me posting mass pictures on that subject.
And i don't hate anyone, especially based on a chosen lifestyle.

Dude, there are guys out there that aren't turned on by girl on girl sex, and yes, I am one of those guys.

I've experienced a lot of stuff in my 39 years of life, but i've never seen anything that leads me to believe in any all powerful gay gene.

Warham

09-23-2005, 10:06 PM

FORD

09-23-2005, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Warham
So let's say you learn to tie your shoes around five years of age. Does this mean that kids have sexual attractions before the age of five? I sure didn't.

What the fuck is that supposed to mean? That looks like one of our resident retard trolls would have posted it.

What the fuck does tying shoes have to do with sexual orientation?

Warham

09-23-2005, 10:31 PM

Read Angel's last post THEN get back to me FORD.

You know, I quoted her for a reason....so you would read it.

My point was, I don't think kids decide their sexual orientation before the age of five, like Angel seems to suggest in her post.

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 10:32 PM

Warham

09-23-2005, 10:34 PM

I have a problem with it like Paul did, you know that guy that Jesus hand-picked to spread the gospel to the Gentiles.

FORD

09-23-2005, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Read Angel's last post THEN get back to me FORD.

You know, I quoted her for a reason....so you would read it.

My point was, I don't think kids decide their sexual orientation before the age of five, like Angel seems to suggest in her post.

I was very attracted to a girl at the age of five. True, I didn't have a clue what sex was, but I thought of her as my girlfriend and I was heartbroken when she moved away to Alaska :(

Warham

09-23-2005, 11:30 PM

Have you ever seen two five year old boys holding hands in a similar kind of attraction that you had to that girl?

Regardless of your answer, I think we all know where I'm going with this one.

FORD

09-23-2005, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by Warham
Have you ever seen two five year old boys holding hands in a similar kind of attraction that you had to that girl?

Regardless of your answer, I think we all know where I'm going with this one.

I have seen young kids whose actions would be described as very "gay". Like boys who like to play with dolls and dress up and pretend to be the "queen" of some mythical kingdom or whatever. I have friends who are elementary school teachers who can tell which kids in their class are obviously "gay".

Your problem is that you associate homosexuality with just the sex act itself, when orientation goes much deeper than that.

That 5 year old kid who plays with dolls and wants to be the queen doesn't know any more about sex than I did. But when puberty hits, I'd bet money that he's going to be looking at boys and not girls.

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 11:40 PM

I don't know about that...

Maybe in Seattle...

Warham

09-23-2005, 11:41 PM

Does a girl who plays with G.I.Joes and pretends to be a male soldier make lead people to believe she's a lesbian in the making?

I'd go on record as saying I think it's a product of a fertile imagination more than anything.

FORD

09-23-2005, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't know about that...

Maybe in Seattle...

As if there were no gays in Louisiana?

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/03/07/mardi_gras11_gallery__550x351.jpg

ELVIS

09-23-2005, 11:53 PM

Yeah, but the gays in Louisiana know they're going to hell...;)

Jesus Christ

09-24-2005, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yeah, but the gays in Louisiana know they're going to hell...;)

There's that judgment thing again, Gregory......

Cathedral

09-24-2005, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by FORD
I have seen young kids whose actions would be described as very "gay". Like boys who like to play with dolls and dress up and pretend to be the "queen" of some mythical kingdom or whatever. I have friends who are elementary school teachers who can tell which kids in their class are obviously "gay".

Your problem is that you associate homosexuality with just the sex act itself, when orientation goes much deeper than that.

That 5 year old kid who plays with dolls and wants to be the queen doesn't know any more about sex than I did. But when puberty hits, I'd bet money that he's going to be looking at boys and not girls.

There is a chance you could lose that bet.
I have a nephew that played with barbie and even liked the color pink so much that his BMX bike was pink.

But he grew up to be a very straight male.
I even made that same bet with a couple of friends of mine back in the day.
And you should see his girlfriend, she is the bomb.

Look, people can say whatever they want to say about this, but being Gay is a choice until someone proves otherwise.

And even still, it's an abomination to God.

Live the life you want, it's of no consequence to me, now if you'll excuse me i'm gonna go shake the dust off my feet as a testimony against y'all.

I've stated all i'm going to on this one.

kentuckyklira

09-24-2005, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Cathedral
Homosexuality is a sin, not Homophobia.
Just like abortion is murder, not a "Choice" that we have a right to make.

You can cloud the issue with pretty words all you want but you can't change the will of God based on social acceptance.

These things aren't pleasing to God, bro.

The Catholic Church is doing the right thing.
Now if they would just prosecute those who abused children to set an example of what future abusers will face if they choose to do the works of Satan and harm a child seeking a life of faith.

There is no god. Homophobia is a mental disorder. Homosexuality may not be normal, but nether is smoking or stuffing yourself with junkfood 7 days a week. Abortion is ok in my book. Teaching kids about contraception before it´s too late is better!

DrMaddVibe

09-24-2005, 12:57 PM

What about burning jews in ovens...is that okay?

Jesus Christ

09-24-2005, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
What about burning jews in ovens...is that okay?

Nailing Jews to crosses wasn't so good either. Take it from Me!

But it happenned, and it is done. Move forward and dwelleth not on these things of the distant past, My son.

WACF

09-24-2005, 01:31 PM

A kid in school a fews younger than me was obviously gay...lisp, mannerisms.

He had a boyfriend right after high school was done.

No one was surprised or shocked...he was born that way.

ELVIS

09-24-2005, 01:38 PM

A lisp is a sign of being gay ??

WACF

09-24-2005, 01:51 PM

Nope.

But if you saw this kid you just new it...plain and simple.

DLR'sCock

09-24-2005, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
There's that judgment thing again, Gregory......

They all judge others instead of working on themselves.

ELVIS

09-24-2005, 02:07 PM

I wasn't judging anyone, dick...

DLR'sCock

09-24-2005, 02:11 PM

Yes, you never judge people.....never....

DrMaddVibe

09-24-2005, 02:13 PM

Yeah...you're right....move forward...who cares about the past.

Oh, wait a minute....those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it!

kentuckyklira

09-25-2005, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
What about burning jews in ovens...is that okay? What about finding even one post in which I even remotely approve of randomly slaughtering Jews!

degüello

09-25-2005, 07:58 AM

The RC church seems determined to drive itself right into the ground.

DrMaddVibe

09-25-2005, 08:26 AM

I could care less about this issue then I ran across this story:

WND Scouts targeted in San Diego Homosexual, atheist activists to march on camp
Posted: September 25, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

A coalition of homosexual activists and atheists plan to march on a Boy Scout camp in San Diego next month demanding the organization open its membership and leadership to them.

The group Scouting For All plans to march and rally at a Boy Scout camp Oct. 9.

Beside demanding the Boy Scouts open their ranks to practicing homosexuals and atheists, the group also apparently seeks the admission of girls to the organization.

Scouting For All's mission statement say it is "to influence the Boy Scouts of America to serve and include as participating members all youth and adult leaders, regardless of their spiritual beliefs, gender, or sexual orientation."

In previous protests, the group has equated the Boy Scouts with the Ku Klux Klan. The group has attracted celebrities in its cause.

"Institutionalized homophobia in the Scouts or in church or school is the cruelest of all," said Ian McKellan, the actor who played Gandolf in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, in an appearance for the group. "It makes life miserable for young gay people and it misleads their peers with regard to the 'truth' about gay people – that they are remarkably similar to the rest."

Support for the latest protest of the Scouts by the group comes from the American Civil Liberties Union and some homosexual activist organizations.

So...how long before they start marching on churches?

ELVIS

09-25-2005, 08:33 AM

Oh my God...

How can you let girls into the BOY SCOUTS ?!?

The American Civil Liberties Union can go to hell...

:elvis:

DrMaddVibe

09-25-2005, 08:34 AM

That's what I thought too, but instead Gandalf the White...is really a bonesmoker!

ELVIS

09-25-2005, 08:51 AM

I found this on the ACLU website...

ACLU Urges North Carolina Courts to Allow Use of Multiple Religious Texts for Swearing Oaths

July 11, 2005

Muslim and Interfaith Groups Join in Urging Officials to Protect Religious Freedom and Reject "Bible Only" Policy

RALEIGH, NC -- The American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina today accused the Administrative Office of Courts of dragging its feet on an important issue of religious freedom and called upon the rule-making body to adopt a policy allowing the use of the Qur’an and other religious texts for the swearing of oaths in court proceedings.

"The government cannot favor one set of religious values over another and must allow all individuals of faith to be sworn in on the holy text that is in accordance with their faith," said Jennifer Rudinger, Executive Director of the ACLU of North Carolina.

Muslim groups, the Council on American-Islamic Relations and interfaith religious organizations have also called upon officials to respect religious diversity by allowing the use of multiple religious texts in this and related contexts.

The issue first arose when a Guilford County Muslim woman was denied the right to be sworn in on the Qur’an when she was a witness in a court proceeding. The Al Ummil Ummat Islamic Center has offered to donate copies of the Qur’an to the county court system specifically for this purpose. The responsibility now falls on the court agency to issue a rule clarifying this issue for all state court proceedings in North Carolina, said the ACLU of North Carolina.

In a letter sent to the Administrative Office of the Courts on June 28, the ACLU pointed out that not only does legislative history indicate that the phrase "Holy Scriptures" was intended to encompass more than just the Bible, but longstanding North Carolina Supreme Court precedent also recognizes the validity of faiths other than Christianity and allows for the administration of oaths to be adaptable to diverse religious beliefs. Court precedents also allows for individuals to either take an oath with an "uplifted hand" or to simply an take a secular oath such that the word "affirm" replaces the word "swear" and the words "so help me God" are deleted.

To date, the court agency has not yet responded to the ACLU’s letter.

:elvis:

ELVIS

09-25-2005, 08:51 AM

What is an Interfaith Group ??

DrMaddVibe

09-25-2005, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by ELVIS
What is an Interfaith Group ??

A group for people afraid of commitment?

ELVIS

09-25-2005, 09:12 AM

Oh, I get it...

A group for people like FORD...

Not really a group at all...

:D

Nickdfresh

09-25-2005, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Warham
Read Angel's last post THEN get back to me FORD.

You know, I quoted her for a reason....so you would read it.

My point was, I don't think kids decide their sexual orientation before the age of five, like Angel seems to suggest in her post.

If it's genetic as some would say the "Gay Gene" is, then it would be largely determined before age five....

Nickdfresh

09-25-2005, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
That's what I thought too, but instead Gandalf the White...is really a bonesmoker!

I guess your GaYdaR© picked that one up PussyVibe...

Warham

09-25-2005, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
If it's genetic as some would say the "Gay Gene" is, then it would be largely determined before age five....

There is no gay gene.

4moreyears

09-25-2005, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
23/09/2005 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/23/wgay23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/09/23/ixportal.html)

The Roman Catholic Church is preparing to bar homosexuals from becoming priests even if they are celibate in what could prove to be a defining act of Benedict XVI's papacy.

An "instruction" spelling out the policy has been drafted by the Congregation for Catholic Education and Seminaries.

Pope Benedict XVI considers homosexuality 'disordered'
Vatican officials say it is expected to be published within weeks. The long-awaited policy review was initiated three years ago by the late Pope John Paul II, who died in April.

It has been fought over bitterly among the Catholic hierarchy amid fears that it will trigger a witch hunt against gay clergy and increase the current shortage of candidates to the priesthood.

But conservatives say it is needed to redress the balance after a period of liberalisation in theological colleges, particularly in America.

The news of the impending publication was leaked to the American press in what some Vatican insiders believe could be a ploy to test the level of feeling about the issue among Catholics in America.

Gay Catholic groups in the US fear that the document could make homosexuals a scapegoat for the child abuse scandals that hit the Catholic Church in America in 2002.

More than 80 per cent of the 11,000 alleged victims of abuse by Catholic priests in the US were young males.

Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger headed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican body charged with looking into the abuse claims, is said to have been horrified by many of the cases.

He has made clearing up the image of the Church one of the priorities of his papacy.

He has also consistently taken a hard line on homosexuality, condemning it as "intrinsically disordered".

While the exact wording of the instruction is not known, sources believe that it will indicate that candidates for the priesthood who identify themselves as homosexual should be barred, even if they are sexually abstinent, because their condition could detract from their ministry.

Many Vatican officials are determined to suppress what they see as a growing gay sub-culture in the priesthood.

Liberals fear, however, that a crackdown will drive the issue underground and set the Church back by decades.

The publication of the document will coincide with an evaluation that starts this month by Church investigators into America's 229 seminaries.

The investigators will, among other things, be looking for "evidence of homosexuality" and whether seminarians are being properly prepared for celibacy.

:elvis:

Great news.

thome

09-25-2005, 06:43 PM

Seems to me you all seem to have a problem and the problem is
your smearing the line between gay and bi-sexual.

A persons sexual preff is not genetic its all in your head .

Hello funny feeling and how YOU choose to apply it.

Anything other than Hetero is Deviant who cares if its wrong or rite.

If it dont feel rite dont do it.Priests doing" anyone" after their vow is wrong.

Cathedral

09-25-2005, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by WACF
A kid in school a fews younger than me was obviously gay...lisp, mannerisms.

He had a boyfriend right after high school was done.

No one was surprised or shocked...he was born that way.

When i was 10 my aunt married a guy like that and i thought from the first time i met him that he was gay.

Turns out he was just from North Carolina... :)

BITEYOASS

09-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by WACF
Nope.

But if you saw this kid you just new it...plain and simple.

Oh, like Freddie Mercury! LOL

DrMaddVibe

09-26-2005, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I guess your GaYdaR© picked that one up PussyVibe...

No gaydar here, sorry to disappoint you nickeroo! All I did was read the fucking article!

"Institutionalized homophobia in the Scouts or in church or school is the cruelest of all," said Ian McKellan, the actor who played Gandolf in the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy, in an appearance for the group. "It makes life miserable for young gay people and it misleads their peers with regard to the 'truth' about gay people – that they are remarkably similar to the rest."

Now how would he know?

Seshmeister

09-26-2005, 08:45 AM

Ian McKellan has been openly gay for years.

Angel

09-26-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Warham
So let's say you learn to tie your shoes around five years of age. Does this mean that kids have sexual attractions before the age of five? I sure didn't.

I know I did, I just didn't know that's what they were

Warham

09-26-2005, 04:26 PM

mmm hmmm.

FORD

09-26-2005, 05:35 PM

It seems the bottom line here is that those who don't have any gay relatives or friends are the ones who are stuck in the homophobic myths.

Why?

Because, as in every case of prejudice since the beginning of time, you force a faceless "other" to conform to the myth you believe in. It's the same with racists who have never known an African American (or whatever group they are afraid of)

Hell, I used to be a homophobe. I didn't confront that myth until I had reason to. That is, until I actually knew gay people and found that the stereotypes didn't apply.

Those of you who still think one verse of Leviticus applies (but not the rest of it) need to take a closer look at your own circle of family and friends.

With 10% of the population being queer, you DO have gay friends and relatives, you just might not know it yet.

Warham

09-26-2005, 06:02 PM

10% isn't queer.

That's been disproven by studies.

It's likely to be more around 1-2%.

Quoted from an article:

Recent studies in many different countries show that the prevalence of homosexuality is less than 3% of the population: In a US study, the prevalence of homosexuality was estimated to be 2.1% of men and 1.5% of women. (Gilman SE. Am J Public Health. 2001; 91: 933-9.) Another US study estimated the prevalence of the adult lesbian population to be 1.87% (Aaron DJ et al. J Epidemiol Community Health. 2003; 57: 207-9.) In a recent British survey, 2.8% of men were classified as homosexuals (Mercer CH et al. AIDS. 2004; 18: 1453-8). In a recent Dutch study 2.8% of men and 1.4% women had had same-sex partners. (Sandfort TG et al. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.) In a New Zealand study, 2.8% of young adults were classified as homosexual or bisexual. (Fergusson DM et al. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999; 56: 876-80)

Seshmeister

09-26-2005, 06:51 PM

Not sure about this.

Anecdotally the truth seems to lie somewhere in between 2% and 10%.

I guess it depends a lot in what circles you mix in plus gays often gravitate to cosmopoliten big cities.

Seshmeister

09-26-2005, 06:53 PM

Air stewards are about 85% and a male fashion editor in NYC would be what? 90%?:)

Angel

09-26-2005, 06:58 PM

No gays in Scotland though....

However....

LOCK UP THE SHEEP! ;)

Cathedral

09-26-2005, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by FORD
It seems the bottom line here is that those who don't have any gay relatives or friends are the ones who are stuck in the homophobic myths.

Why?

Because, as in every case of prejudice since the beginning of time, you force a faceless "other" to conform to the myth you believe in. It's the same with racists who have never known an African American (or whatever group they are afraid of)

Hell, I used to be a homophobe. I didn't confront that myth until I had reason to. That is, until I actually knew gay people and found that the stereotypes didn't apply.

Those of you who still think one verse of Leviticus applies (but not the rest of it) need to take a closer look at your own circle of family and friends.

With 10% of the population being queer, you DO have gay friends and relatives, you just might not know it yet.

Oh but we do have a gay man in the family, a cousin, and i'm not a homophobe at all and i don't apply stereotypes either.

Calling people homophobes is a cop-out, dude.
Those that think it's genetics that makes them gay don't have any medical evidence to support their theories, so it is easier to label someone a homophobe and walk away.

All i have ever said about it is that i want proof that it is genetic, but all i get is, "You're a homophobe".
No matter, claiming i have a phobia, or fear as it were, of gay people is such bullshit. I don't fear a homosexual in any way.

I think it's a vile, deviant and disgusting lifestyle that i do not agree with, there is no fear involved in that conclusion.
I don't care how people choose to live, that is their business and i don't have to accept it but THAT is what pisses them off the most.
I treat them as i would anyone else, but they want me to treat them like gay people and accept them for it, that ain't happening and if they bring the issue up with me they won't like my answer and THEY will be the one's with the attitude.

Anyway, they are the one's who have to answer to God for it, not me.
If i'm wrong, well, i'm willing to go before God and tell him that myself.

I think it's wrong, you think it's ok, end of discussion...