Name Thy Enemy

[BigBadBrian]

Name Thy Enemy
Oct 14, 2005
by Clifford D. May


For more than a generation, a war was fought against the United States. Most Americans, however, didn't know it. And even those who did may have been puzzled about whom it was we were fighting.
The war began in 1979, after Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini came to power in Iran and his followers, chanting “Death to America,” seized our embassy in Tehran and took our diplomats prisoner. But we did not interpret that to mean we were at war with Iran.

In 1983, members of the same movement bombed our embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut, killing hundreds. But we did not consider ourselves to be at war with Hezbollah or its sponsors.

In the 1990s, adherents of the same ideology – totalitarian, supremacist, anti-democratic -- attacked Americans repeatedly: office workers in New York City, diplomats at embassies in Africa, military personnel serving in the Middle East. And in 1996, a wealthy Saudi living in exile published what he called a “Declaration of War Against the Americans.”

But even as we suffered these attacks, we did not acknowledge that a war was being waged. In fact, most Americans believed they were living in a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. There was even a “peace dividend” to be spent.


The horrific attacks of September 11, 2001 were a wake-up call – but the nation remained groggy. Since hijacking planes and crashing them into in the World Trade Center was an act of terrorism, we set about to fight a “war on terrorism” – as though there were no movement driving terrorism and no ideology justifying the violating of the age-old taboo against intentionally murdering women and children.

The label persisted from that time until last week when President George W. Bush, in an address to the National Endowment for Democracy, made a conceptual leap. Linking attacks against civilians from New York to Casablanca, Sharm el-Sheik to Netanya, Mombasa to London, Istanbul to Beslan, Beirut to Bali, he argued that such massacres “serve a clear and focused ideology, a set of beliefs and goals that are evil, but not insane.”

He added: "Some call this evil Islamic radicalism; others, militant Jihadism; still others, Islamo-fascism."

Bush was careful to distinguish this ideology “from the religion of Islam,” adding that it both “exploits Islam” and targets Muslims who aspire to live in freedom, choose their own leaders and embrace pluralism. He noted that “most of the victims claimed by the militants are fellow Muslims.”

Osama bin Laden and other militants murder in pursuit of a dream -- of conquest and domination. It is a vision, Bush said, that is openly stated “in videos, and audiotapes, and letters, and declarations, and websites.”

To achieve it, requires ending “American and Western influence in the broader Middle East …Second, the militant network wants to use the vacuum created by an American retreat to gain control of a country, a base from which to launch attacks and conduct their war against non-radical Muslim governments.”

Deprived of their base in Afghanistan after 9/11, “they've set their sights on Iraq. Bin Laden has stated: ‘The whole world is watching this war and the two adversaries. It's either victory and glory, or misery and humiliation.'”

The President also quoted bin Laden's commander in Iraq, Abu Musab al- Zarqawi: "We will either achieve victory over the human race or we will pass to the eternal life."

Does the United States have both the will and a way to stop such ruthless and determined ideologues? Bush revealed more than he has before about the progress made to date by the U.S. and its allies against Islamo-fascism: “We've killed or captured nearly all of those directly responsible for the September the 11th attacks; as well as some of bin Laden's most senior deputies; al-Qaeda managers and operatives in more than 24 countries; the mastermind of the USS Cole bombing, who was chief of al-Qaeda operations in the Persian Gulf; the mastermind of the Jakarta and the first Bali bombings; a senior Zarqawi terrorist planner, who was planning attacks in Turkey; and many of al-Qaeda's senior leaders in Saudi Arabia.

“Overall, the United States and our partners have disrupted at least ten serious al-Qaeda terrorist plots since September the 11th, including three al-Qaeda plots to attack inside the United States.”

Toward the end of the speech, Bush posed a question to those who argue that America should settle for less than the defeat of al-Qaeda in Iraq. “Would the United States and other free nations be more safe, or less safe,” he asked, “with Zarqawi and bin Laden in control of Iraq, its people, and its resources?”

And he offered his answer: “Having removed a dictator who hated free peoples,” he said, “we will not stand by as a new set of killers, dedicated to the destruction of our own country, seizes control of Iraq by violence.”

Surely, that is a point on which there ought to be broad and bipartisan consensus.


Link (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/cliffordmay/2005/10/14/171420.html)

[knuckleboner]

so, did our war against islamo-fascism began in 1979 with the ayatollah, or a bit earlier, when the U.S. supported the corrupt shah of iran...

[ELVIS]

Doesn't matter...

But if the liberal freaks don't shut down the war in Iraq, there's a good chance that the western way of life will take hold in that backwards part of the world and the Islamic militant anti-American bullshit will die...

Sorry for the long sentence...


:elvis:

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Doesn't matter...

But if the liberal freaks don't shut down the war in Iraq, there's a good chance that the western way of life will take hold in that backwards part of the world and the Islamic militant anti-American bullshit will die...

Sorry for the long sentence...


:elvis:

Let me see if I got this straight......

You want Leviticus, which is a 5,000 year old handbook for a sect of priests, to be the law of THIS land, yet Islam (actually 600 years more recent than Christianity) is "backwards".

How does that work, exactly?

Anti-American feelings will "die" in the Middle East when the BCE and the corporations leave the fucking region alone.

Ironically enough, the people of Iran embrace western culture far more than the supposedly "free" people of Iraq do.

[Warham]

No, Elvis wants the Bible (all 66 books) to be the law of the land. He doesn't cherry pick like some people here.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Ironically enough, the people of Iran embrace western culture far more than the supposedly "free" people of Iraq do.

Says who, you ??

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD

How does that work, exactly?



"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government of peace, He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness from that time and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this."

Isaiah 9:6-7



:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Let me remind you of this too...

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from one end of the sky to the other. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; even so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son Man.



You're fucked in the head, FORD, but I still love you...



:elvis:

[FORD]

And since neither you nor I know when Jesus is coming back, what do we do until then?

Unless Bush really is the Antichrist, it's at least 7 years away.

[Warham]

Bush...Antichrist? LMAO!

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
And since neither you nor I know when Jesus is coming back, what do we do until then?

Unless Bush really is the Antichrist, it's at least 7 years away.


So, you can wait 6 years and 364 days to change your evil ways of thinking...


:elvis:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
And since neither you nor I know when Jesus is coming back, what do we do until then?

Unless Bush really is the Antichrist, it's at least 7 years away.

Can't be.

The anti-Christ will come out of the European Union.

Watch those bastards.

:)

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
Bush...Antichrist? LMAO!

GEORGE 6
WALKER 6
BUSHJR 6

Poppy Bush's Carlyle Group recently acquired a company that manufactured RFID tags, which could very possibly be the implementation of the Mark of the Beast described in Revelation 13.
http://portland.indymedia.org/icon/2004/11/304045.jpg
You will notice that a familiar shape (associated with Grandpa Prescott Bush) is incorporated into the design of the Carlyle tags.

Revelation also mentions "those who say they are Jews but are the synagogue of Satan." Sounds like the Likud/PNAC traitors to me.

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Can't be.

The anti-Christ will come out of the European Union.

Watch those bastards.

:)

Sure, the televangelists like to push that rumor, but what biblical basis is there for it?

There is no mention in the Bible of where the AntiChrist will come from.

[Warham]

The names William Jefferson Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton come out to 666 as well, using the Hebrew numbering system, not ours.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
The names William Jefferson Clinton and Hillary Rodham Clinton come out to 666 as well, using the Hebrew numbering system, not ours.

So does Junior's (http://www.bushisantichrist.com)

[Warham]

I think it's pointless. My name probably comes out to 666 as well.

Bush isn't the antichrist. He doesn't pander to Kofi Annan enough. Speaking of Kofi...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Name Thy Enemy
Oct 14, 2005
by Clifford D(ouche bag). May


...

In 1983, members of the same movement bombed our embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut, killing hundreds. But we did not consider ourselves to be at war with Hezbollah or its sponsors.

...


Yeah, that pussy liberal Ronald Reagan did nothing about that one...

[Warham]

Well, at least Reagan ended the Cold War.

What does Clinton have to fall back on?

[ELVIS]

His wife ??

[ELVIS]

Maybe his Saudi funded library ??

[Warham]

Well, he did kill a janitor in retaliation for one attack.

We have to give him credit for that.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Well, at least Reagan ended the Cold War.

What does Clinton have to fall back on?

Reagan didn't end the Cold War. It was over by '65.

I dunno,' a strong economy, less abortions and lower poverty rates that today, support for emerging technologies like the internet?;)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Well, he did kill a janitor in retaliation for one attack.

We have to give him credit for that.

And anywhere for several dozen to a few hundred al Qaida/Taliban operatives...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Reagan didn't end the Cold War. It was over by '65.



I almost thought at one point you might have a brain...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I almost thought at one point you might have a brain...

Well, I am smart enough not to believe Soviet propaganda of power.

And I know you hate Catholics Elvis, but Pope John Paul and Soviet Commie incompetence had a far greater role than Reagan did. Communism collapsed from within' and from populist uprisings. Not through Reagan's ratcheting up funding for weapons systems developed mostly from the four previous Administrations...

Yes, The Gipper had a role to play, but you guys just made a statement far dumber than Al Gore ever dreamed...

I guess Reagan "invented" the fall of Communism.

[Warham]

The Biography of a Bad Statistic
Abortions rising under Bush? Not true. How that false claim came to be -and lives on.

May 25, 2005
Modified: May 26, 2005

Politicians from Hillary Clinton and John Kerry to Howard Dean have recently contended that abortions have increased since George W. Bush took office in 2001.

This claim is false. It's based on an an opinion piece that used data from only 16 states. A study by the Alan Guttmacher Institute of 43 states found that abortions have actually decreased. Update, May 26: The author of the original claim now concedes that the Guttmacher study is "significantly better" than his own.


Analysis



A number of politicians and organizations have been circulating an interesting and surprising idea: that abortions have gone up under George W. Bush’s watch. The claim is repeated by supporters of abortion rights as evidence that Bush's anti-abortion policies have backfired, or at least been ineffective.

But the claim is untrue. In fact, according to the respected Alan Guttmacher Institute, a 20-year decline in abortion rates continued after Bush took office, as shown in this graph



Source: Alan Guttmacher Institute, "Trends in Abortion in the United States "



Here's the story of how a false idea took hold.

The Birth of a Bad Statistic

The claim that abortions are rising again can be traced back to an opinion piece by Glen Harold Stassen, an ethics professor at Fuller Theological Seminary. His article originally appeared in a web and e-mail publication of Sojourners, a Christian magazine, in October 2004. Several other outlets, including the Houston Chronicle, also ran a similar piece co-authored by Stassen and journalist Gary Krane. The articles generated a good deal of discussion on a number of both liberal and conservative blogs.

Describing himself as “consistently pro-life,” Stassen reported that he “analyzed the data on abortion during the Bush presidency” and reached some “disturbing” conclusions. "Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion rates appears to have reversed," he said. "Given the trends of the 1990s, 52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than would have been expected before this change of direction."

Stassen's broad conclusion wasn't justified by the sketchy information he cited, however. Furthermore, a primary organization he cited specifically as a source for historical data now contradicts him, saying abortions have continued to decline since Bush took office. More about that later.

Hillary Clinton Uses It

Stassen offered his article as evidence that Bush's economic policies were driving pregnant women to abortion. And although he opposes abortion, his claim was soon picked up and repeated uncritically by the other side – supporters of abortion rights. In a speech to family-planning providers in New York on January 24, 2005 , Sen. Hillary Clinton recounted decreases in the abortion rate that occurred in her husband's administration, then lamented that the situation had changed. She repeated exactly some of the figures that Stassen had given in his Houston Chronicle article.

Clinton : But unfortunately, in the last few years, while we are engaged in an ideological debate instead of one that uses facts and evidence and common sense, the rate of abortion is on the rise in some states . In the three years since President Bush took office, 8 states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6% average increase), and four saw a decrease (4.3% average), so we have a lot of work still ahead of us.

Clinton was careful not to state flatly that abortions were increasing nationally . She spoke only of "some states" in which the rate had increased. But she invited her listeners to conclude that the national trend to fewer abortions had reversed itself since Bush took office.

And in fact a few days later, in an interview on NBC’s Meet the Press on January 30, 2005 , Sen. John Kerry claimed that abortions were up, period:

Kerry: And do you know that in fact abortion has gone up in these last few years with the draconian policies that Republicans have….

A Kerry spokesman confirmed at the time to FactCheck.org that Kerry was relying on the Stassen article for his information.

Finally, as recently as May 22, 2005 , Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean also asserted on NBC News' Meet the Press:

Dean:You know that abortions have gone up 25 percent since George Bush was President ?

Dean's "statistic" went unchallenged by moderator Tim Russert, so millions of viewers probably got the impression that Dean's very specific 25 percent figure was correct. But Dean was wrong -- and by a wide margin.

We asked the Democratic National Committee repeatedly where Dean got his 25 percent figure, but we got no response. Even if Stassen's estimate of 52,000 additional abortions were correct, that would figure to an increase of less than 4 percent. And in any case the rate is going down, not up, according to the most authoritative figures available.

Cherrypicking Data

A close reading of Stassen's article makes clear that he didn't even pretend to have comprehensive national data on abortion rates. He said he looked at data from 16 states only -- and didn't even name most of them.

Stassen said that in the four states that had already posted statistics for three full years of Bush’s first term, he found that abortion was up. Twelve more states had posted statistics for two years of Bush's term – 2001 and 2002 – and here the picture was mixed. According to Stassen, "Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6 percent average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3 percent average)." A version of the piece in the Houston Chronicle reported instead that four saw a decrease with a 4.3 percent average.

So Stassen was projecting findings onto the entire country from 12 states that he said had showed an increase and 5 (or maybe 4) that he said had shown a decrease. That leaves a total of 34 other states for which Stassen had no data whatsoever.

Furthermore, Stassen is contradicted by one of the very organizations whose data he cites. The only primary source of data that Stassen cites specifically in the article is the Alan Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit organization that conducts a periodic survey of all known abortion providers, which numbered nearly 2,000 at last count. Guttmacher's statistics are widely used and respected by all sides in the abortion debate. It is the only organization to compile and publish national abortion-rate data other than the federal Center for Disease Control. CDC's official statistics, however, run only through 2001, so they shed no light on what has happened since Bush took office.

And Guttmacher – as we shall see – now says abortion rates have decreased since Bush took office. And that's based on data from 43 states, not just 16.

De-bunking the statistic

Stassen’s numbers, and the widespread acceptance they seemed to be getting, prompted the Guttmacher Institute to conduct a special analysis to update its comprehensive census of abortion providers for the year 2000. The increases that Stassen reported “would be a significant change in a long-standing trend in the US ,” Leila Darabi of the institute explained to Factcheck.

Besides the fact that Stassen claimed to have data only from 16 states, the Guttmacher Institute said it is likely that many of the states Stassen picked have higher abortion rates historically, have a higher concentration of population subgroups that tend to have more abortions, and see abortion rates rise more quickly when they do go up. Stassen himself named only Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Colorado among the 16 states he says he studied, but his co-author on the Houston Chronicle article listed each state in a separate article posted on the Internet.

The Guttmacher Institute found that two of the states Stassen used had unreliable reporting systems. In Colorado , for instance, where Stassen claimed that rates “skyrocketed 111 percent,” the reporting procedure had been recently changed in order to compensate for historic underreporting. Guttmacher also found Arizona had an inconsistent reporting system.

The Facts

The Guttmacher Institute announced its findings May 19. Guttmacher analyzed available government data "as an interim measure until another provider census can be conducted” according to a news release. The interim study analyzed data from 43 states determined to have reliable state reporting systems.

What it found was that the number of abortions decreased nationwide – by 0.8% in 2001 and by another 0.8% in 2002. The abortion rate , which is the number of women having abortions relative to the total population, also decreased 1% in 2001 and 0.9% in 2002. That's not as rapid a decrease as had been seen in earlier years, but it is a decrease nonetheless.

We give much weight to Guttmacher's analysis. Their figures are widely used and accepted by both anti-abortion groups and abortion-rights advocates. Their surveys of abortion providers go back to 1973, and Stassen cites them himself as the source for the number of abortions in 2000.

Guttmacher has little motive to make Bush and his anti-abortion policies look good. The institute was founded in 1968 in honor of a former president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, and describes its mission as being" to protect the reproductive choice of all women and men in the United States and throughout the world.” Had Stassen’s numbers proven accurate, the Institute “would have reported and widely publicized a rise in abortion rates,” said Darabi. But facts are facts.

Update, May 26: Even Stassen now concedes that he can't substantiate his original claim. In a memo dated May 25, which he sent to FactCheck.org just as we were posting our article, he praises the Guttmacher study and says it is "significantly better" than his own earlier effort:

Stassen, May 25: I based my estimates in October on the sixteen states whose data I could find then. Now, seven months later, and with their extensive data-gathering ability, AGI (Alan Guttmacher Institute) bases their results on 44 states. They say their results are only estimates, projections, but I believe their results are significantly better than what I could have obtained seven months ago. I affirm their methods and their study, and am grateful for their effort.

Nevertheless, Stassen still argues that the small rate of decline that Guttmacher reports still constitutes a "stall" in what had earlier been a more rapid decline. He also continues to criticize the Bush administration for economic policies that he says bring hardship on low-income women. "It is clear to me that undermining the financial support for mothers, undermining the availability of medical insurance, and increasing the jobless rate for prospective mates so that they are less likely to marry, has a bad influence on abortion rates and infant mortality rates."

For the full text of Stassen's response see "supporting documents" at right.


Correction: Our original article stated that Sen. Clinton had omitted to mention states in which abortions had decreased. In fact, as was obvious from the full quote we gave, she did state that abortions had decreased in four states. This updated article corrects our error.


Sources

Glen Harold Stassen, "Pro-Life? Look at the fruits," Sojomail, 13 October 2004.

Glen Harold Stassen and Gary Krane, "Why Abortion Rate Is Up In Bush Years," Houston Chronicle, 17 October 2004

Sen. Hillary Clinton, "Remarks by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to the NYS Family Planning Providers," 24 January 2005, website.

"Meet the Press," Transcript, National Broadcasting Company, 30 January 2005.

"Meet the Press," Transcript, National Broadcasting Company, 22 May 2005.

"Decades-Long Decline in Number and Rate of U.S. Abortions Continues, New Analysis Shows," Press Release, The Alan Guttmacher Institute, 19 May 2005

http://factcheck.asc.upenn.edu/imagefiles/Abortion%20Rate.jpg

[ELVIS]

The power of BULLSHIT !!


:elvis:

[Nickdfresh]

Okay. The statistics are inconclusive on that one. But let's compare the US to other industrialized democracies.


Originally posted by ELVIS
The power of BULLSHIT !!


:elvis:

Indeed!

The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html)

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

[ELVIS]

Words 'n stuff...:rolleyes:

[Warham]

Yeah, I'll take the USA over any other country, murders and all.

You guys don't like it here...move to Mexico.

[Unchainme]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, I'll take the USA over any other country, murders and all.

You guys don't like it here...move to Mexico.

Sie Amigo, I love Mexican food, The better have some damn good slasa there, and its warm there too, plus they have Spring Break with hot college chicks.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
No, Elvis wants the Bible (all 66 books) to be the law of the land. He doesn't cherry pick like some people here.


Gee, thrusting one's beliefs on the entire world.

Sounds familiar.


The difference between radical Islam and FundaMENTAL Christianity is getting harder to see by the day.....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, I'll take the USA over any other country, murders and all.

You guys don't like it here...move to Mexico.

Fuck you and your " America, Love it or Leave it" approach.

Some of us expect better from our leaders.

You just expect to be lied to and cheated.

Good for you, moron. You deserve to get fucked.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Maybe his Saudi funded library ??

Reaaly want to bring up Saudi funded projects there, Busheep?


:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, I'll take the USA over any other country, murders and all.

You guys don't like it here...move to Mexico.

Like you did during the Clinton Administration?

Nice try, I'm a fan of the Buffalo Bills, I think the coach sucks and the GM is an idiot that should have been fired by now. I'm still a fan that bleeds red, white, and blue....

But goddamn, I'm gonna' rip the team for underperforming as is America under this regime' of kooky, phoney-Christians...

[Jerry Falwell]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Can't be.

The anti-Christ will come out of the European Union.

Watch those bastards.

:)

Unless you look at the "Anti-Christ" from a historical point of view...
The early church (not associated with the Catholic Church) believed and taught for centuries that the term anti-christ was actually the definition for any entity that hindered the name of Christ. Therefore, most in the early church said that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that would attack from within the church (Catholic Church). That even the most estute men that have good intentions would be influenced and deceived by the spirit of anti-Christ and hinder the True Church family.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Jerry Falwell
Unless you look at the "Anti-Christ" from a historical point of view...
The early church (not associated with the Catholic Church) believed and taught for centuries that the term anti-christ was actually the definition for any entity that hindered the name of Christ. Therefore, most in the early church said that it is the spirit of anti-Christ that would attack from within the church (Catholic Church). That even the most estute men that have good intentions would be influenced and deceived by the spirit of anti-Christ and hinder the True Church family.

Interesting concept. And one under which Bush would definitely be a contender, as he has led many professing Christians into supporting his fascist, satanic doctrines.

[Warham]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Fuck you and your " America, Love it or Leave it" approach.

Some of us expect better from our leaders.

You just expect to be lied to and cheated.

Good for you, moron. You deserve to get fucked.

Yep, Slick Willy did lie and cheat, and was very unethical, but I didn't want to move back then. I waited.

[LoungeMachine]

And how many died, and how many Billions lost over the blow job?????

[Warham]

I don't even need to discuss the 'blowjob' to delve into Clinton's unethical activities. There are many other things that could be brought up.

[Jerry Falwell]

Originally posted by FORD
Interesting concept. And one under which Bush would definitely be a contender, as he has led many professing Christians into supporting his fascist, satanic doctrines.

To an extent, all of us in one way or another have probably been privy to influence from the Spirit of anti-Christ or will be in the future.

Matthew 24:24


For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones. (WEB)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (ASV)

For there will come up false Christs, and false prophets, who will do great signs and wonders; so that if possible even the saints might be tricked. (BBE)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall give great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. (DBY)

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (KJV)

For false Christs will arise, and false prophets, and will show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect. (WBS)

For there will rise up false Christs and false prophets, displaying wonderful signs and prodigies, so as to deceive, were it possible, even God's own People. (WEY)

for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen. (YLT)