do any of actually like bush?

[rikredbrain]

seriously folks as a member of a comunity thats had the shit kicked out of it (both by terrorists and by the political bigwigs) im interested in your opinions about george bush.... from where i stand ive never liked him.... ever since the whole polutiion problems pre 9/11 and his reaction to that scared the shit outta me....

let us know...

[Ally_Kat]

his reaction to what, 9/11?

I like him and I feel safer with him in charge than I would with algore or Kerry

[rikredbrain]

to my admittitly untrained eys he seemed to be flailing around after the 9/11 tragedy..... whilst i agree terrorists need to be stoped ( damn it i grew up in a terrorists playground... bomb scare a day.. and a real one at least evey month not fun ) hammering the shit out of every country that looks sideways at you doesnt work... all i can see is that we now have a country (iraq) thats building an under ground movement against us in the west.... and they now have more suport than before the fucking war. we also still have the threat of bin laden etc what has anyof this acomplished... ? ?

[Ally_Kat]

iraq building an underground movement against the west? From what evidence? People that journalists find to be vocal and complain about stuff happening there? We can never please everybody and the one thing I've learned about war reporting is to never fully trust the segment thrown in for a different angle on the war.

[Flash Bastard]

I like Bush quite a bit and feel safe with him as President. I feel his policy of going after terrorists before they strike is a wiser strategy than rolling over and letting the terroists win, much like Spain recently did.

[alexpgrimes]

I prefer a landing strip or totally shaved. That's the kind of Bush I like.

[ELVIS]

I'm ok with Bush...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by alexpgrimes
I prefer a landing strip or totally shaved. That's the kind of Bush I like.

I prefer my runways clear myself. :gulp:

[John Ashcroft]

Good question. The same's been asked about Kerry (and no one seems excited about "The new JFK" on the Democrat side).

I agree 100% with the President's foreign policy, and disagree with 90% of his domestic policy. However, since survival is more important than an expansion in Prescription Drug benefits, I'm sure I'll be voting for Bush this November (I know, surprise surprise!)

Seriously though, I think a Kerry Presidency would be disasterous for America and the world. So Europe doesn't like Bush, I say "GREAT"! It's high time America quits cowing to European socialists. Do you really think they have America's best interest in their minds? If you answer "Yes", then think of the automotive industry. Or think of the agriculture industry, or steel, or pretty much anything that we compete with them on. Then ask again if Europe has America's best interest in mind.

[Jesus Christ]

There shall be no righteous government until the Son of Man sets His foot upon the Mount of Olives and takes His throne in the Temple of Jerusalem.

[John Ashcroft]

Until then you've got European Commies trying at every opportunity to stick it to the United States.

One candidate will let them, one candidate won't.

[Dr. Love]

If Kerry wins, I hope you guys bitch for 4 years about it like the other side has done.

[Jesus Christ]

Even if I, the Son of Man were elected, someone would complain :(

[steve]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Good question. The same's been asked about Kerry (and no one seems excited about "The new JFK" on the Democrat side).

I agree 100% with the President's foreign policy, and disagree with 90% of his domestic policy. However, since survival is more important than an expansion in Prescription Drug benefits, I'm sure I'll be voting for Bush this November (I know, surprise surprise!)

Seriously though, I think a Kerry Presidency would be disasterous for America and the world. So Europe doesn't like Bush, I say "GREAT"! It's high time America quits cowing to European socialists. Do you really think they have America's best interest in their minds? If you answer "Yes", then think of the automotive industry. Or think of the agriculture industry, or steel, or pretty much anything that we compete with them on. Then ask again if Europe has America's best interest in mind.

Congrats!
Best post you ever made, dude.
No joke.
Don't agree with it, but great post.
-steve

[Pink Spider]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
If Kerry wins, I hope you guys bitch for 4 years about it like the other side has done.

Chances are that a Skull and Bones bought off, corporate politician that supported the war in Iraq will win in 2004. I think it's pretty obvious who I'm talking about. ;)

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Chances are that a Skull and Bones bought off, corporate politician that supported the war in Iraq will win in 2004. I think it's pretty obvious who I'm talking about. ;)

So you think Kerry will win, huh? He's accepted more special-interest and corporate donations than anyone else in either house of Congress, and that's a fact. :gulp:

[Pink Spider]

True. However, a little hypocritical from someone that praises Shrub.

[rikredbrain]

it seems to me these days everyone in politics is corupt..(except schwarzenegger..... whos just hilarious) corperations run the world now... and thats pretty dangerous....

[ALMOSTsaved]

Guess I'm old school. I prefer BUSH to shaved.

[Lou]

I absolutely refuse to vote for someone who is pro-choice, so fat chance of me voting for a Democrat then.

Here's something I want explained to me--these animal rights activists who are pro-choice. They value the life of an ANIMAL over the life of a human being. If that's not the most ridiculous thing I don't know what is.

[thefive]

I like Bush.
thefive

I just don't like the democratic theory. More Goverment. That means more programs=more taxes

[Lou]

Neither do I, I'm about self-reliance, and not about hoping the government will bail me out. I'm about the idea of putting the country and the economy in the hands of its people, not the government artificially trying to create jobs and take care of things.

[John Ashcroft]

Originally posted by Lou
I absolutely refuse to vote for someone who is pro-choice, so fat chance of me voting for a Democrat then.

Here's something I want explained to me--these animal rights activists who are pro-choice. They value the life of an ANIMAL over the life of a human being. If that's not the most ridiculous thing I don't know what is.

Because the underlying agenda of all modern day protestors is anti-capitalism. The same groups organize all of their "protests" for a whole host of subjects. Hypocricy means nothing to these types because they are rarely called on it (so much for the "right wing media"). These types vote a socialist agenda, period. Any given "cause" is just a front to their real agenda.

[Lou]

Yeah and ever notice that very few times it's conservatives protesting unless it's mid-January in D.C. protesting Roe v. Wade? I think that's because the conservatives are too busy having jobs and working.

[John Ashcroft]

Yep, but let's not forget about the "unruly mob" protesting the floriduh recounts. Evidently, this mob was a greater threat to civilized America than the WTO protestors...

And let's also not forget the uninvited "guests" protesting Carl Rove's house this week. Who organized that one again? Where is it on CNN? NBC? CBS? ABC???

[Pink Spider]

So, should we delete another amendment and ban protesting?

You guys are on a roll. Anti-capitalism? That's your excuse for everything. Is anything never done for any other purpose than to bring down capitalism? Hmmm....maybe we don't want war? Nope, comrade we're all part of some sort of cynical commie plot! :rolleyes:

[John Ashcroft]

Were you for or against CFR?

And I'm just stating facts here, princess. The same group organizes most of these supposed protests.

And were the WTO protestors anti-war? Was that their theme? Yet, many of the same show up to protest anything American. You can't simply dismiss this by belittling these questions as modern-day McCarthyist kooks being paranoid.

Oh, and how's about the spokesperson for the ELF? A self proclaimed communist fighting for the "environment". Yep, Craig Rosebraugh is the man! You know, the guy who said "Terrorism can be okay", and "can be justified". He also advocated violence to stop the war in Iraq (typical environmentalism, right?).

The funny thing is, he's recently embraced the evils of capitalism to "pay the bills", by opening an upscale resturant in Portland called "Calendula". He also drives a Toyota 4-Runner...

So much for "The Cause"...

[Big Troubles]

I just got to say JA, its been awhile since we debated or chatted about politics; so I figured now would be a good time. And since Ive got such a rich vast knowledge of this thread I will take a stab. I like Bush. No, forget that...I LOVE Bush...

[Big Troubles]

But speaking purly political here, I like it trimmed too.

[John Ashcroft]

Heh heh heh... I prefer a nicely trimmed bush myself. But it's gotta be tight (although they all are when old JA is in the "neighborhood"...)

[Big Troubles]

Man, I need to be in your neck of the woods. All mine are looser than Sam's solo work. Hey, maybe your nailing them before me? :lol:

[John Ashcroft]

Probably, but when you've got 60 pounds of danglin' fury betwixt you legs, they're all tight....

[lesfunk]

Bush is too liberal...

[Pink Spider]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Were you for or against CFR?

And I'm just stating facts here, princess. The same group organizes most of these supposed protests.

And were the WTO protestors anti-war? Was that their theme? Yet, many of the same show up to protest anything American. You can't simply dismiss this by belittling these questions as modern-day McCarthyist kooks being paranoid.

Oh, and how's about the spokesperson for the ELF? A self proclaimed communist fighting for the "environment". Yep, Craig Rosebraugh is the man! You know, the guy who said "Terrorism can be okay", and "can be justified". He also advocated violence to stop the war in Iraq (typical environmentalism, right?).

The funny thing is, he's recently embraced the evils of capitalism to "pay the bills", by opening an upscale resturant in Portland called "Calendula". He also drives a Toyota 4-Runner...

So much for "The Cause"...

The war going on is not between socialism and capitalism. But a war by socialists, small business capitalists, workers, anarchists etc. against corporatism. Don't confuse corporatism for capitalism, because they're not the same.

Small business' for the most part are not buying off our politicians or control everything we see and hear in the media. Look at who you've got sponsoring these "patriotic" rallies? Monopolies like Clear Channel. Then you have the mainstream media distorting the numbers, overestimating their numbers for their corporate rally and virtually overlooking the other one. Some of our rallies might be controlled by commies, but yours are being controlled by a force more frightening. They control the airwaves and we're a long way from China.

We need not share ideology to know that corporatism is something that's destroying the country. If you believe otherwise, then fine. Continue supporting the shredding of the constitution. Blindly pledge allegiance to the corporate state. It's your choice. It's a free country no matter what rights that they think they can take away. I'll just continue to spread the word of what you are afraid to admit. ;)

[John Ashcroft]

And yet once again no examples to back up the accusations.

I think "Corporatism" is the left's new catch phrase for the modern day boogie-man. But when you get down to it, no matter what fancy new name you create, it's still the tired old class-warfare argument.

[FORD]

Republicans used to be the party of small business and now they defend worthless shitbag corporations like Fear Channel, ENRON, and the oil companies. What the Hell happenned?

Free market? Competition? How the fuck are these things possible in a world where most industries are controlled by 3 or 4 global mammoths? This isn't capitalism, it's fascism, by Mussolini's own definition. Old Bennie's gotta be laughing his ass off down in Hell right about now

[John Ashcroft]

Nah, if what you were saying were true, there would be no AOL, no Yahoo, no e-bay, no Amazon.com, no MicroSoft, etc, etc.

The evidence is strongly against you on this one.

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Nah, if what you were saying were true, there would be no AOL, no Yahoo, no e-bay, no Amazon.com, no MicroSoft, etc, etc.

The evidence is strongly against you on this one.

AOL is one of the worst. They own Time Warner (which was already a mammoth corporation). Odds are you have at least one AOL product on your computer right now, even if you don't subscribe to their crappy Internet service. I'll admit that I prefer their instant messaging to MSN's, and WinAMP is by far the best media player available.

Amazon has swallowed up dozens of online retailers, which really sucks because 1) Their prices aren't as good as the old company and 2) Since Amazon is based in Seattle, I have to pay state sales tax on anything I order from them no matter where it's shipped from :(

As for Microsoft, there are legal court decisions establishing them as a monopoly, so that's a good enough definition. Technically, anybody can buy a Macintosh or a Linux machine if they want to, but both hardware and software compatibility are going to be problems.

Furthermore, these companies were more or less established before the massive corporate consolidation began, and as I pointed out, all of the above have since benefitted directly from it. But there's no competition. Even if a Linux distribution was written tomorrow that was 10 times easier for the most basic Windows end user, what are the odds it would ever compete seriously against Microsoft?

Dozens of ISP's are better than AOL, but how can they compete with a multinational marketing budget?

And I've already mentioned Amazon swallowing it's competition, literally. So your own examples work against you. If any of these companies were starting today, instead of 1985 (AOL and Microsoft anyway), they would never make it in the current Walmartized business climate :(

[John Ashcroft]

Nah, the point is, new companies couldn't exist if "corporatism" were real. AOL certainly wouldn't have been in a position to buy Time Warner (regardless of what they are today). Oh, and didn't IBM just make a deal with UNIX? I thought I saw a superbowl commercial alluding to it.

[Pink Spider]

What about the corporate media blackout of 3rd party candidates?

"New companies couldn't exist if "corporatism" were real"

Not true. Capitalism is not entirely dead. It just has little chance of survival against the corporate machine. But, tell me, how many local TV and radio channels aren't nationally owned or operated in your area in some way? Very close to none here. If capitalism is still here, where are all the choices??

Keep telling yourself that corporatism isn't real. It won't make it so.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Dr. Love
If Kerry wins, I hope you guys bitch for 4 years about it like the other side has done.


Not me, once the election is over i'm done harping and turn to respecting the man in charge whoever he is, whatever he represents or what party he is a member of.
You see, I respect the office of the Presidency more than i do the short term individual who fills the position for 4 or 8 years.

I like President Bush because he is showing the world that we still have a pair and will use them when needed. NAFTA put me out of a job and so i blame Clinton for that. he is no Republican is he?
But the number of people who lost jobs vs. the amount taxes were raised still made it possible to build a surplus.
Some people looked at that money as a good thing, I and many others (especially the 15 of us who were let go from our jobs after 4+ years of dedicated service) saw that money as not belonging to Washington and wanted it back.
Bush gave it back, and now if we could put an end to American Companies sending work that belongs here at home to over seas employees we may be able to build an "HONEST" surplus that doesn't punish lower income workers.

It is a fact that a majority of Americans work for smaller businesses, it is also fact that in a crashing economy those are the first to suffer because of such low profit margins. which in turn turns many skilled workers out into the street....then take into account that those skilled workers are replaced with cheaper labor, if at all, by illegal immigrants.

NAFTA promoters including many of the world’s largest corporations promised it would create hundreds of thousands of new high-wage U.S. jobs, raise living standards in the U.S., Mexico and Canada, improve environmental conditions and transform Mexico from a poor developing country into a booming new market for U.S. exports.

NAFTA opponents including labor, environmental, consumer and religious groups argued that NAFTA would launch a race to the bottom in wages, destroy hundreds of thousands of good U.S. jobs, undermine democratic control of domestic policy making and threaten health, environmental and food safety standards.

It seems to me and thousands upon thousands of other people that found themselves out of work agree with the opponents 10 years after it's conception. (this is the 10 year anniversary year you know)

Kerry is a no go for me because he speaks of fixing this while his wife is guilty of the same thing many times over.....

Bush suits me just fine on that issue and in dealing with Terrorism...He put money back in my pocket that would have only meant more out of it under Gore, and in the future, Kerry......

I'll place my vote on election day and do as i have done since i was 18.........deal with it.

[FORD]

Don't forget that NAFTA was George Bush Sr's project. Poppy created it, Poppy sold it to Canada and Mexico, Poppy signed it. All Clinton did was encourage Congress to ratify the damned thing. Which neither he, nor they, should have done, but to characterize it as Clinton's creation is wrong.

And Clinton was in reality a moderate Republican as President, with some of his positions actually being to the right of Dick Nixon. Clinton WAS the head of the DLC for a while after all, and there's not a true Democrat among that bunch regardless of their claims to the contrary.

Junior, on the other hand, is no Republican either. He's a fascist authoritarian, just like his grandpappy's good buddy with the funny mustache.

[Cathedral]

Now you see why i didn't vote for Bush Sr. to have a second term...I agree with you, but what i hold against Clinton is him seeing it through when it was clearly going to be bad for our future.

He could have stopped it and he didn't so he failed me along with everyone else that suffered for it.

Do you understand yet that i vote for the people who i feel are right for the job as opposed to being a strict party voter?
That is not so much the case today because of the Liberal agenda and finding a Liberal who i can agree with is nowhere near as easy at it was 10 years ago.
The right has gone to the extreme right and the left has gone to the extreme left....For a guy like me there is no longer a middle ground, so it's one side or the other, period.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral

The right has gone to the extreme right and the left has gone to the extreme left....For a guy like me there is no longer a middle ground, so it's one side or the other, period.

If only that were true. At least then there would be a choice.

Instead you have the GOP pandering to the extreme right while the DLC has turned the Democrats into a right of center party. The Greens are the closet thing there is to an organized liberal party, but they are as of yet not anywhere near capable of competing nationally, given the big money bastardization of the process.

Junior vs Judas illistrates this lack of difference perfectly welll. Perhaps a slight difference in domestic policy. Not a damn difference in foreign policy.. And even if Kerry managed to create 10 million jobs, it wouldn't doi a lot of good if 90% of the world still hates us because of PNAC imperial fascism.

[Cathedral]

Agreed, I think the Green Party deserves equal funding and an equal chance at the office.
I even assumed that by now they would have that chance...so things don't look to good to me in the near future.

And it is true from my perspective that neither party suits me 100%. Hell i can't even find a Democrat i can stand behind so i have to focus solely on the issues that matter to me personally. and without re-directing this thread i'll assume that you remember the most important ones to me.

[Cathedral]

Let me also add that the quality of the work that was sent from our company to Japan to be done was putrid.
See, what really gets me about it all was that once Kustom took it's maufacturing there it was sent back to us after being imported back into the states.
We did quality control on the beast that was fixing to swallow us whole, i'd laugh if i didn't love that job so much and was not still bitter about it.

We opened the boxes and pulled cabinets out that had vinyl and carpet hanging off of them...seams that had visible gaps exposing the wood, missing or chewed and stripped out speaker screws....Man they were a mess and then, get this, then we had to FIX that shit before it went to retailers.

Kind of like sticking it to ourselves...and then our production standards were sent over there and they still were crap.........Oh yeah, NAFTA was a great idea all the way wasn't it?

[Steve Savicki]

Bush has lied about so many things that even his fellow Republicans dislike him.
I bet Kerry will win the election (won't bet money 'cause I don't live the gamblin' lifestyle), but I think that Kerry will win.

[FORD]

Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Oh, and didn't IBM just make a deal with UNIX? I thought I saw a superbowl commercial alluding to it.

I forget which version of Unix IBM is using, but I believe they are selling it as a network platform. Which is not a bad move in and of itself. Unix/Linux is a far more stable and secure operating system for networking, and was in fact designed to BE a network OS. The internet itself is a Unix network.

But this is just the network infrastructure itself. Odds are that every workstation on those networks will still be running Windows and MS Office. So if every network in the country converted over to Unix/Linux, there's no question MS would lose some major licensing fees from their ridiculously overpriced server software. But it's just as likely that the user licenses for Windows XP and MS Office would take a jump even quicker than gas prices during a Bush campaign season ;)

[John Ashcroft]

My buddy uses slackware for his network needs (and has set up our office using a slackware box as a router). I've loaded Redhat a while back, but didn't like the KDE or Gnome desktop. Plus, couldn't run my games (big minus for a workstation). But I'm trying to get a little smarter on the Linux/Unix OS. I'm moving into the network admin realm at work, and am seeing first hand the power of these OS's. I'll probably set up home behind a Linux box pretty soon.

So, having said that, I can't believe that more software vendors haven't worked on the desktop aspect (or lackthereof) of Linux. Talk about a market! I know Linux itself will always be free, but get Unreal to run on the thing and I may change my desktop OS. I have faith that this certainly will happen soon, and lot's of people will get rich by it. Hell, just the fact that IBM is finally realizing UNIX is a much better server platform is a giant step in the right direction (IMHO). There's always money to be made in America. That's my point. Every time you think a certain market has been cornered, someone comes along and pulls the rug out from under everyone. I love it! It truly happens nowhere else. And guess what? Government intervention has proven only to stymie entrepreneurs and the free market. That's just the truth. It always comes down to "the law of unintended consequences". Europe for instance has government intervention in all aspects of civil life and it's markets. Any guesses to why they don't drive the tech industry? Hell, Germans are crafty mother fuckers. If let loose, they'd probably dominate most of the tech industry. So why aren't they?