Classic Van Halen Gear [Archive] - The Diamond David Lee Roth Army

BrownSound1

12-07-2005, 02:36 AM

I know Ed said he boosted the Variac to 140 volts, but that has recently come to be known as bullshit. It is now generally acknowledged that he DROPPED the voltage to about 90 volts. This causes two things to happen, one is that your power tubes will last a bit longer, and the other is that the tone "browns" a bit. However, I have heard stock Marshalls with no Variac connected get the same tone. It also helps to have a 12000 series Super Lead. :D

The only reason I bring up the Variac is because I don't want to see someone fuck up a good Marshall by cranking the juice to it.

ELVIS

12-07-2005, 04:50 AM

he never used it on his live tone, anyway...

I've owned and played Marshall amps for 20 years, and I have never been temped to try such a silly idea...

BTW, I have read that damaging your Marshall with a variac was a myth...

Makes sense to me too...

I don't see how it could hurt it...

Caged

12-07-2005, 08:20 AM

first time Ive read about "boiling the strings for 20 mins" before putting them on too.

Matt White

12-07-2005, 11:22 AM

EVH peddled a lot of BULLSHIT over the years concerning his gear and practices.........

Jimmy Jingles

12-07-2005, 01:34 PM

Love the new AV Matt...

RIP DIME!

Don Corleone

12-07-2005, 03:13 PM

I've heard he only used the Variac for recording purposes. Live he just used to crank the Marshall all the way.

jhale667

12-07-2005, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
he never used it on his live tone, anyway...

I've owned and played Marshall amps for 20 years, and I have never been temped to try such a silly idea...

BTW, I have read that damaging your Marshall with a variac was a myth...

Makes sense to me too...

I don't see how it could hurt it...

...Supposedly it doesn't HURT it, it just makes you go through tubes like water because you're leaving it on '10' all the time, and can be rough on the output transformer....he also used to slave his "Holy Grail" head to H&H power amps, from what I've read. But yeah, he did put out a lot of B.S. to throw people off...:rolleyes:

ELVIS

12-07-2005, 08:17 PM

I'm thinking about getting a THD Hotplate...

I don't need it at all, but I'm a gear junkie and it looks like it might work good...

I like the line level output on it also...

Send that to an eq and possibly my cabinet simulator...

That might be nice...

:elvis:

jhale667

12-07-2005, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
I'm thinking about getting a THD Hotplate...

I don't need it at all, but I'm a gear junkie and it looks like it might work good...

I like the line level output on it also...

Send that to an eq and possibly my cabinet simulator...

That might be nice...

:elvis:

Ah, another fellow sufferer of G ear A cquisition S yndrome....you, my friend...have GAS.:rolleyes: Besides, when has "I don't need it" been a valid excuse? LOL

Hotplates are supposed to be cool for Marshalls, though...

BrownSound1

12-08-2005, 12:04 AM

Well let's clarify something here...pumping too much voltage to your amp WILL fuck it up, and a Variac is more than capable of that. That's why I said it was ok to go down in voltage..although you can theoretically go up in voltage to a point.

Now a THD Hotplate is a great thing indeed, especially in a small club where they don't want you blasting a 100 watter on full roar. It isn't a new idea by any means, because you had those old Altair attenuators and the Scholz Power soak. The difference is a Hotplate isn't a resistive load attenuator, but a reactive load just like a speaker is, thus theoretically a little more friendly to your output transformer. The other thing is that I am totally against amps with master volume controls on them, because preamp distortion just doesn't have the balls that power amp distortion does. All of these guys with the high gain amps usually end up sounding like a group of mad bees...and the preamp stages are to blame for that. The main problem with getting power amp distortion is volume, because you have to crank the hell out of the amp. Why not get an attenuator, so you can save your ears a bit, and keep your neighbors from calling the cops on you. :D

ELVIS

12-08-2005, 12:13 AM

Yeah, I have an old Power Soak, but I don't use it much...

It does funny things to the sound when pushed hard...

It works with the amp at lower volume levels, but what's the point ??

jhale667

12-08-2005, 12:49 AM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yeah, I have an old Power Soak, but I don't use it much...

It does funny things to the sound when pushed hard...

It works with the amp at lower volume levels, but what's the point ??

...Only tried one of those once, sitting in with some cover band on a visit home...I seem to recall the dude's Marshall getting a cool sound, though. One of the things I dig about my Boogie Simul-Class is if need be, I can kick it down to 15 watts and crank up the master a bit. Still beefs!:killer: It's true about power-stage distortion being the key, though...if you crank up the preamp gain too much, you WILL sound like a giant gnat without fail.

ELVIS

12-08-2005, 12:57 AM

Hmmm...

Well, my sound is very similar to Yngwie's with a bit more overdrive...

People would flip to see what I do to get my tone...

Before my brother heard my latest setup, he said it had too many variables, which, it is quite complicated, but he liked it when he heard it...

He's a bass player, and a tone master himself...

Anyway...:D

jhale667

12-08-2005, 01:34 AM

...I always shoot for a slightly meaner 'brown' type sound (with a little Brad Gillis Boogie thickening agent thrown in)...:D my set-up's not that complicated....3 things in my input signal chain, 2 (soon to be 3) things in the FX loop....

jhale667

12-08-2005, 01:41 AM

Another funny one: In my guitar sales geek days a few years back I actually got to pick Eddie's brain about pickups and tone for a minute one day...I asked "So you're not into high-output pickups, are you?" And he repeated verbatim a quote I'd read from his as a kid "Yeah, I HATE all that 'hot-rails-to-hell' shit!" -LOL -He said he DID fuck up a few PAFs teaching himself how to rewind them..he was like "You know how much that shit's WORTH today?":rolleyes:

Brett

12-08-2005, 02:24 AM

I never could figure out why Ed would need the Variac live, so it makes sense that he just used it for recording where you're not normally cranked to 10.

I've heard those THD hotplates are great on Marshalls but really do little for the high gain amps like the 5150 or even a Mesa.

Brett

12-08-2005, 02:27 AM

Some of you fuckers have so much shit, more than I can comprehend. I just am not patient to dial all that stuff in, I'm pretty basic...5150, Marshall cab with Greenbacks, BBE Sonic Maximizer, MXR EQ. Does the trick for me.

ELVIS

12-08-2005, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by Brett
I just am not patient to dial all that stuff in, I'm pretty basic...5150, Marshall cab with Greenbacks, BBE Sonic Maximizer, MXR EQ.

I just live for tweaking tone...

I'm never totally satisfied and I'm always trying stuff...

That nasally Tony Iommi tone really gets me off, as does the tone on Speak Of The Devil...

I almost bought a lefty real Gibson SG on ebay, but I didn't...

I play guitar pretty much alone, but I may be playing with a band again next year...

A 5150 amp is just way too buzzy for me...

Almost all amps are way too buzzy for my liking...

Getting rid of buzz and high end sizzle has been part of my quest for tone...

I just purchased SRV Live At Montreaux...

Awesome tone...

:elvis:

Brett

12-08-2005, 01:17 PM

I'm not a huge 5150 fan, but for me I need something loud to compete with our singer's Mesa, and the 5150 does the trick for that.

I love to tweak my tone too, I've just never been good enough to know exactly what to throw in my rig to get what I'm always hearing in my head. So I just wind up doing the basics.

But I'm with you, I am not a big fan of buzz and that high-end sizzle either, I love a warm tone, but you are right, near impossible to get with a 5150.

Don Corleone

12-08-2005, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS

That nasally Tony Iommi tone really gets me off, as does the tone on Speak Of The Devil...

Iommi's using Laney at the minute, but I wouldn't recommend then. Owned one and sold it equally as fast.

Have you tried THD Amps?

jhale667

12-08-2005, 07:14 PM

I hear THD's are supposed to be like a Plexi on steroids....any truth to that?

ELVIS

12-09-2005, 12:59 AM

Never tried one, but don't tempt me...;)

I may just order one on ebay...

:elvis:

BrownSound1

12-09-2005, 01:30 AM

THD amps are ok..they get close to a Plexi sound, but it isn't dead on. I did like the little Univalve amp...it has a great tone.

The thing about 5150's and Mesas is that the tone they are known for is all done with preamp gain. You could use a hotplate or other attenuator on them, but it would be best on the clean channel and the volume cranked wide ass open. Or maybe a LITTLE bit of preamp distortion on the other channels and do the same.

Brett, so you're using Greenbacks on your 5150? I bet that warms it up a bit.

jhale667

12-09-2005, 01:46 AM

Have you checked out a Boogie MKIII's 'Marshall' channel? Not so preampy, but if you crank up the master it gets a nice AC/DC-early VHish vibe. Works nicely on the 15-watt setting, too.

Don Corleone

12-09-2005, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by jhale667
I hear THD's are supposed to be like a Plexi on steroids....any truth to that?

Pretty much, you can get an Fair Warning era tone with very little effort out of those things. I've been temped for some time now buy the THD Flexi 50.

Brett

12-09-2005, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by BrownSound1

Brett, so you're using Greenbacks on your 5150? I bet that warms it up a bit.

Night and day, best thing I ever did to warm up the tone.

Of course I haven't played through my cab in a long time. When I go to band practice, I don't drag my cab down there, I just use the shitty ass Crate cab they have there. So it sounds like shit most of the time. :)

ELVIS

12-09-2005, 04:13 AM

My orange Marshall cabinet has real 1972 greenbacks...

Something I find interesting is Yngwie prefers the 75 watt Celestion speaker from the 80's...

jhale667

12-09-2005, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
My orange Marshall cabinet has real 1972 greenbacks...

Something I find interesting is Yngwie prefers the 75 watt Celestion speaker from the 80's...

Never understood that...there's four 4x12's in my garage studio: My 2 Carvins w/greenbacks, and two Marshalls--one with greenbacks, one with 75-watters and it sounds like ASS compared to the other 3...:confused: regardless of what amp's running it..

ELVIS

12-09-2005, 01:46 PM

Supposedly, he likes the bright clean sound they make, as opposed to a warmer speaker like a vintage 30 or greenbacks...

jhale667

12-09-2005, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Supposedly, he likes the bright clean sound they make, as opposed to a warmer speaker like a vintage 30 or greenbacks...

Yeah, they don't break up as early for sure...but if you think about it, the archetypical 'rock' guitar sound we're all used to hearing, speaker cone distortion plays a role....:rolleyes:

ELVIS

12-10-2005, 05:12 AM

Why the rolleyes ??

jhale667

12-10-2005, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by ELVIS
Why the rolleyes ??

...As in a "WHO KNOWS?" kinda way....;)

jhale667

12-10-2005, 03:01 PM

And while I can vouch for the 'clean' part of the description, they don't sound particularly bright...could just be this cab....

BrownSound1

12-11-2005, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by jhale667
Have you checked out a Boogie MKIII's 'Marshall' channel? Not so preampy, but if you crank up the master it gets a nice AC/DC-early VHish vibe. Works nicely on the 15-watt setting, too.

I'm pretty much an anti-Mesa Boogie guy, although I do own a V-Twin preamp pedal. LOL For the most part I find them too dark for my liking, but you can sometimes detect a slight Fender tone as well. (Probably because the first Boogies were hot rodded Fenders, until Fender sued that ass.)

Also, to comment on Brett having to use a 5150 to get over the Mesa/Boogie. Bro, go get yourself a HiWatt and you'll never have to worry about getting over anyone again. :D Those things are so damned loud they hurt.