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LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:08 PM
11.16.05

5 More Marines killed today in a fire fight along the Syrian border


Almost 3 years after that motherfucker stood in front of that fucking "Mission Accomplished" banner and proclaimed major combat over.

How many elections do they need before we leave?

How many must be tortured before we leave?

How many do we need to train before we leave?


HOW MANY MORE BRAVE AMERICANS MUST DIE FOR THIS MISTAKE????




BBB?
Warham?
ELVIS?
ASSVibe?
4morequeers?
d2?

Did those 5 die for ANYTHING today other than for this administration to save face?


FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

ELVIS
11-16-2005, 10:12 PM
How many of the enemy died ??

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
How many of the enemy died ??

16

It's a war of attrition.

We cannot win this, E.

And I'm shocked that as a nurse and a Christian your only response is how many other lives were needlessly lost :rolleyes:


disgusting:mad:

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:15 PM
So, by your reasoning, if the enemy is willing to sacrifice 160,000 to see us leave, you would be willing to let 10,000 Marines die


disgusting.

madraoul
11-16-2005, 10:17 PM
Who is the enemy in Iraq? I thought Osama what's his name brought down the twin towers.

ELVIS
11-16-2005, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

And I'm shocked that as a nurse and a Christian your only response is how many other lives were needlessly lost :rolleyes:




it's just a question...

I don't know what the answer is...

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
How many of the enemy died ??


absolutely pathetic :rolleyes:



Five fellow Americans, brave Marines died.

For nothing at this point.

Get it?

DR CHIP
11-16-2005, 10:19 PM
You liberals piss me off....

SIDE NOTE: if you are right and this war is so unjust and it really is for nothing then I WILL be the first one to stand up to the plate and say I was wrong

Back to the rant:

When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....

All you against the war need to buy a plane ticket and go over and try to be diplomatic with these people...the fact is you will end up in an orange suit, on TV, having your head cut off by a dull swiss army knife...

Thank God we have a President that stands up for something...he isn't the best at numerous things, but on fighting terrorism he is much better than the alternative of Kerry/Edwards....

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
it's just a question...

I don't know what the answer is...


And what number would have made it worthwhile to you to lose those 5 Marines today?

16?
160?
1,600?


It's just a question, I don't know what your answer is.....

ODShowtime
11-16-2005, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
How many of the enemy died ??

"the enemy"

Who the fuck cares about some worthless ragheads? They aren't are enemy! At least they weren't until we started butchering their families. On purpose or not, it doesn't matter to them.

You just don't get it e.

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
"the enemy"

Who the fuck cares about some worthless ragheads? They aren't are enemy! At least they weren't until we started butchering their families. On purpose or not, it doesn't matter to them.

You just don't get it e.

No, he doesn't.

I wonder if it had been 5 of his friends and/or coworkers who died over there today if he'd be so damn interested in the "body count" :rolleyes:



5 MARINES DIED FOR NO GOOD REASON ON 11.16.05


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

ODShowtime
11-16-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....

Hey genius, why do you think those fucks would want to come over here in the first place? You think they want to steall all our booze and porn?

Thank God we have a President that stands up for something...he isn't the best at numerous things, but on fighting terrorism he is much better than the alternative

One thing I'll agree with you on is that our president is not good at numerous things. Like reading, speaking, debating, leading, pronouncing, eating, setting priorities that matter to the American public, riding bikes, foreign policy, appointing crucial government post, stuff like that. It's not too hard to just bomb the fuck out of people.

ODShowtime
11-16-2005, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
No, he doesn't.

I wonder if it had been 5 of his friends and/or coworkers who died over there today if he'd be so damn interested in the "body count" :rolleyes:



5 MARINES DIED FOR NO GOOD REASON ON 11.16.05


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

It's like they're not even people to him.

Unchainme
11-16-2005, 10:29 PM
I'm really starting to lean towards the left on this issue, I just constantly see what happens to people on a nightly basis on the news. Funny thing is I've met many a Republican who suport the war BUT as soon as a Recruiment thing is sent to their kids they freak out and say STAY OUT OF IT! That being said of course, I wish we kinda look at some of these men as Barbaric (Al Quada ETC.) just from what i've seen with the beheadings and all. So I think blame should be put on Bush for this whole mess but at the same time these people that we are fighting against are like The muslim Katydids of the world willing to kill people in the name of a religon just makes me want to puke.

blueturk
11-16-2005, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
You liberals piss me off....

SIDE NOTE: if you are right and this war is so unjust and it really is for nothing then I WILL be the first one to stand up to the plate and say I was wrong

Back to the rant:

When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....

All you against the war need to buy a plane ticket and go over and try to be diplomatic with these people...the fact is you will end up in an orange suit, on TV, having your head cut off by a dull swiss army knife...

Thank God we have a President that stands up for something...he isn't the best at numerous things, but on fighting terrorism he is much better than the alternative of Kerry/Edwards....

What terrorists are you talking about exactly, my wool-covered friend? The ones in Iraq that perpetrated 9/11? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. What the fuck ever happened to capturing bin Laden? Can you explain that to me please? You fucking sheep kill me.

DR CHIP
11-16-2005, 10:32 PM
Not Karl....sorry ;)

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
Not Karl....sorry ;)

Of course not.

Turd Blossom is at least intelligent with a grasp of American politics, albeit dishonest and without an ounce of soul......

You're just an ignorant fuckstump. :rolleyes:

You may now return to another forum.....

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by Unchainme
I'm really starting to lean towards the left on this issue,

You really don't need to lean left on this issue, bro, just to be disgusted and amazed at what we've become :cool:

You can hold onto your right leanings, i.e. Chuck Hagel, John McCain, et al and still manage to see the disgusting waste of human life.

knuckleboner
11-16-2005, 10:39 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP


When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....


uh, dude, the iraqi war is not about fighting terrorists. most of the "insurgents" in iraq are not there to fight for muslim ideals. they're there to get control of iraq.

mind you, i'm not siding with them. they don't want a democratic process in iraq because they know that they will lose.

that's why the majority of the causualties have been iraqi police/army trainees.



that said, should we pull every troop out this second? no, i don't think so. we are responsible for what happens to iraq. we changed their government, for right or for wrong. we cannot undo that.

whether this war was justified or not (and i happen to believe it was not), the fact is that we took a relatively stable country (albeit, with a tyrannical dictator) and removed their governmental infrastructure. if the country falls into complete chaos (and no, they're not there right now) then it will be America's fault.

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
What terrorists are you talking about exactly, my wool-covered friend? The ones in Iraq that perpetrated 9/11? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. What the fuck ever happened to capturing bin Laden? Can you explain that to me please? You fucking sheep kill me.

Turk,

You're not actually expecting Dr. CowChip to give you an answer other than what he's learned listening to Rush while delivering our pizzas, are you ;)



11.16.05

5 MORE MARINES KILLED TODAY FOR NO GOOD REASON :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
uh, dude, the iraqi war is not about fighting terrorists. most of the "insurgents" in iraq are not there to fight for muslim ideals. they're there to get control of iraq.

mind you, i'm not siding with them. they don't want a democratic process in iraq because they know that they will lose.

that's why the majority of the causualties have been iraqi police/army trainees.



that said, should we pull every troop out this second? no, i don't think so. we are responsible for what happens to iraq. we changed their government, for right or for wrong. we cannot undo that.

whether this war was justified or not (and i happen to believe it was not), the fact is that we took a relatively stable country (albeit, with a tyrannical dictator) and removed their governmental infrastructure. if the country falls into complete chaos (and no, they're not there right now) then it will be America's fault.

100% CORRECT.

2,078 AMERICAN LIVES, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS, 300 BILLION DOLLARS, AND 3 YEARS LATER...................

Cathedral
11-16-2005, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine

We cannot win this, E.



Lounge, I respect the hell out of ya man, but you are wrong here because we are winning.
The acts of desperation from those fucks is a clear sign of that.

I don't support this war in the name of Bush, I support this war in the name of every soldier there because they support the mission and believe in what they are doing, and those i now personally tell me they are winning.

But i tell ya, claiming that we can't win...that made me shutter, bro.
No soldier will ever hear me say that, or see me write that about them and their progress.
Trust me my friend, there are way more good things going on over there than any of us will see on tv or in print.

It won't bring those 5 marines back, but please don't make it worse by claiming they died fighting a losing battle because that just is not true.

I'd trade my life for all 2000+ that have given everything to this conflict in a heartbeat.
They are succeeding and they most definately will be victorious in honor of those who have fallen.

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Amen, Cat.

Well said,..... and you know how much I admire and respect you.


God how I hope you're right on this one.

Peace, bro.

ELVIS
11-16-2005, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Trust me my friend, there are way more good things going on over there than any of us will see on tv or in print.

I believe that as well...

I need to start posting more success stories regarding the war...

And regargless of what you liberals think or say, there are some, many in fact...

It won't bring those 5 marines back, but please don't make it worse by claiming they died fighting a losing battle because that just is not true.

Amen, and may God bless them...




:elvis:

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 11:08 PM
And bless those 5 families tonight, God what they must be going through......

I hate this.

BigBadBrian
11-16-2005, 11:12 PM
I think our brave young Marines need to spend about two more weeks on the rifle range before coming out of Boot Camp and the Democrats in Congress need to STFU when budget increases are needed for the increased ammo.

:gun: :gun: :gun:

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I think our brave young Marines need to spend about two more weeks on the rifle range before coming out of Boot Camp and the Democrats in Congress need to STFU when budget increases are needed for the increased ammo.

:gun: :gun: :gun:

Are you suggesting Dems have held up ammo funding for Iraq?

Source please.


And 2 more years on the range won't help against roadside bombs, but I hear more armor will.

"sometime you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want" Donald Rumsfeld

:rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
11-16-2005, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Are you suggesting Dems have held up ammo funding for Iraq?

Source please.


And 2 more years on the range won't help against roadside bombs, but I hear more armor will.

"sometime you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want" Donald Rumsfeld

:rolleyes:

Who gave Donnie that Army?

Who didn't armor those Humvees before hand?

Oh, that's right, they were never intended for those types of missions or to be an armored personnel carrier.

The Humvee was a replacement for the Jeep, nothing more.

:gulp:

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 11:23 PM
Congress uses emergency spending bill to reinstate cuts

BY STEPHEN J. HEDGES

Chicago Tribune


WASHINGTON - Congress, eager to show support for American troops fighting overseas, is on the verge of setting aside up to $50 billion in "emergency" spending to help pay for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars next year.

But as much as 5 percent of that fund may not go for war costs at all, according to outside budget analysts. Instead, they say, Congress is using the emergency bill, known as a bridge fund, to stealthily reinstate cuts that it claims to have made in the Pentagon's regular budget.

That shift in funding is just one of the behind-the-scenes maneuvers in what critics call the shell game that is the Pentagon's 2006 budget, which lawmakers are finishing now. That game has gotten more elaborate with Congress facing competing pressures to fund two wars and cut an increasingly out-of-control federal budget.

"It's just become a budget gimmick on steroids," Keith Ashdown, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, said of the restored cuts in the emergency fund. "It just gives them a chance to take those costs off budget."

Congressional leaders defend the emergency war funding. Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Fla., chairman of the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, said the additional money will provide essential military equipment, whether it was shifted from the regular Pentagon budget or not.

"We were very careful," Young said. "What we included in the House budget fund was strictly for fighting the war on terror, equipment that our presently deployed troops need, such as armor for Humvees, armor for bodies and ammunition."

The Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts now have cost more than $350 billion, according to the Congressional Research Service, and the White House is expected to ask early next year for another special payment.

The House and Senate each have approved a version of the 2006 defense spending bill. The Senate version is about $390 billion, not including spending on the wars, and the House provides $409 billion, excluding $45 billion for war funding. They are now negotiating a final version.

But the Iraq and Afghanistan emergency fund is not the only place the so-called shell game is playing out.

About $10 billion to pay for veterans' medical costs have disappeared from the Senate version of the bill altogether, for example. Instead it has been foisted on the U.S. Treasury, allowing the Senate to claim its version of the Pentagon budget is $7 billion below the White House request of $397 billion.

A congressional source said the White House Office of Management and Budget is trying to block that money-moving, which has gone largely unnoticed.

"My guess is that you will never hear a peep about this as they debate the bill," said Winslow Wheeler, a former Senate staffer and author of "Wastrels of Defense: How Congress Sabotages U.S. Security."

Congressional negotiators and the OMB declined to comment on the defense bill until the House and Senate agree on a final version, which could be in the next few weeks.

Facing a growing tab for hurricane-relief efforts, some in Congress have suggested a fresh look at Pentagon spending. But it is difficult to make a dent in the defense budget once both sides have signed off. It includes several hundred pages and billions of dollars of hard-won compromises over military operating costs, weapons purchases and special projects for particular states and congressional districts.

In the Senate, the Pentagon spending bill sailed through earlier this month by a 97-0 vote. The House version passed 398-19 in June.

Both versions provide much of what the White House asked for, including full funding for premier weapons programs such as the F-22 fighter jet, the C-17 cargo plane, the Marines' V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor aircraft and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

This year, both the House and Senate tried to beat the White House to the war-funding punch by approving the emergency fund.

While that might look like good planning, budget watchdogs say it's also a chance for Congress to stretch the definition of "emergency" and use the extra money for purchases that have little or nothing to do with the war.

"It's invisible. ... It doesn't go through the normal vetting process," said Ashdown of Taxpayers for Common Sense. His group estimates that more than $3 billion in non-war spending has found its way into war funding in recent years, including such items as expansion of a wastewater plant in Pennsylvania and forest road maintenance in California.

A recent study by Wheeler, the former Senate staffer who now works for the Washington-based Center for Defense Information, notes that the Senate cut $343.8 million in Army depot funding, some of which is used to maintain combat vehicles and equipment and some of which is used for other things. But then the money reappears at a higher level of $1.4 billion in the emergency fund.

The Senate also cut $56 million from $680 million in upgrades to the Army's Apache helicopter, Wheeler's report states, then restored $98 million in upgrades in the emergency bill. An additional $447 million in cuts to operating expenses across the service, Wheeler found, appeared again in the emergency budget.

Rep. Young said some of those shifts may reflect a conscious decision to move military items from the annual budget to the emergency war fund. House leaders, he said, kept pork out of the emergency funding, limiting it to items requested by the military.

"There are no so-called earmarks, where members come in and ask you for something," Young said. "That was our position, and the members understood that."

Still, the attempt by Congress to pre-empt the administration's war spending could end up costing more in the end.

Although the administration has yet to ask for its 2006 war funding, the Congressional Budget Office projects that the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts will cost $85 billion in 2006. Young said recent discussions with administration officials suggest that those costs could be even higher, though he declined to name a figure.

If so, some fear, Congress could end up paying some 2006 war costs now - and then paying the administration's full request later.

Cathedral
11-16-2005, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And bless those 5 families tonight, God what they must be going through......

I hate this.

If any of them live within 100 miles of me, I'll be at their memorial service...I don't know what else to do and I have to do something or i'll go crazy.

I do think that it would be a good idea for our political leaders to stop fighting over this and accept that we are there and must finish the job so they can band together to support our troops the way they deserve to be supported.
The insurgents are losing, but all this vocal dissention is a disaster for our soldiers because the enemy is benefitting from our division on the issue.

They expect us to cut and run like we have before when things got politically damaging for us....but we must all make damn sure that doesn't happen because like Knuckleboner stated, Iraq is now America's responsibility.

LoungeMachine
11-16-2005, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Who gave Donnie that Army?

Who didn't armor those Humvees before hand?

Oh, that's right, they were never intended for those types of missions or to be an armored personnel carrier.

The Humvee was a replacement for the Jeep, nothing more.

:gulp:

:rolleyes: :confused:

Blaming Clinton?

Rummy made the quote almost 2 years after "mission accomplished"

It was HIS army by that time:mad:

Get real:rolleyes:

BigBadBrian
11-16-2005, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:rolleyes: :confused:

Blaming Clinton?

Rummy made the quote almost 2 years after "mission accomplished"

It was HIS army by that time:mad:

Get real:rolleyes:

I guess you don't understand how long the military procurement system works. You don't order 5000 Humvees and get them next month in the Armed Forces. ;)

Guitar Shark
11-17-2005, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I guess you don't understand how long the military procurement system works. You don't order 5000 Humvees and get them next month in the Armed Forces. ;)

You'll have to forgive the Clinton administration; they never expected a future administration to launch an unnecessary war based on false intelligence, in a fucking desert on the other side of the globe...

ELVIS
11-17-2005, 12:44 AM
Is that so ??


"What if Saddam Hussein fails to comply, and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route which gives him yet more opportunities to develop his program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction."

"If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." The stakes could not be higher. "Some day, some way, I guarantee you, he'll use the arsenal."

President Bill Clinton, February 18, 1998


:elvis:

Guitar Shark
11-17-2005, 12:45 AM
And for ELVIS's next trick, he will Google up a cure for cancer!

LoungeMachine
11-17-2005, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
And for ELVIS's next trick, he will Google up a cure for cancer!

LMMFA:D

ELVIS
11-17-2005, 12:49 AM
A Nanotech Cure for Cancer? (http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,69206,00.html?tw=wn_8techhead)


:elvis:

MERRYKISSMASS2U
11-17-2005, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
You liberals piss me off....

SIDE NOTE: if you are right and this war is so unjust and it really is for nothing then I WILL be the first one to stand up to the plate and say I was wrong

Back to the rant:

When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....

All you against the war need to buy a plane ticket and go over and try to be diplomatic with these people...the fact is you will end up in an orange suit, on TV, having your head cut off by a dull swiss army knife...

Thank God we have a President that stands up for something...he isn't the best at numerous things, but on fighting terrorism he is much better than the alternative of Kerry/Edwards....

you just got a 5 star vote from me pal!

Guitar Shark
11-17-2005, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
A Nanotech Cure for Cancer? (http://www.wired.com/news/medtech/0,1286,69206,00.html?tw=wn_8techhead)


:elvis:

:D

Nitro Express
11-17-2005, 01:23 AM
The Vietnam war lasted a decade, so did the Soviet war in Afganistahn. This current war in the middle east is different than Vietnam or Korea. We were attacked on our home turf. Sept. 11 fueled a short-term "Remember Pearl Harbor" type patriotism. That lasted for a few months and then died off. The majority of Americans went back to life as usual as a minority got called to war. Unlike World War II, we aren't unified. Many don't agree with the Comander and Chief's strategy. Many think the president's supporters are profiting from the war or even started it.

Sept. 11 has made Americans distrust each other more than ever. One thing for sure, the objective is clear as mud and the only thing that will rally the public is another attack on our homeland. Things may die down around the end of this decade or the terrorists will add more fuel to the fire.

There are so many variables at play here. This could esculate into a bigger, multinational war depending on what Israel does, what the Arab states do, what the US does, and what the terrorists do. This whole mess has the three largest religions mixed up in it with the world's richest oil reserves that everyone want. The Middle East is some of the shittiest real estate in the world. Great if you like heat, bugs, and sand. It's all about who controls the oil, buys the oil, and who supports Israel. Bin Laden just started the bar fight and everyone is punching each other.

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Turk,

You're not actually expecting Dr. CowChip to give you an answer other than what he's learned listening to Rush while delivering our pizzas, are you ;)



11.16.05

5 MORE MARINES KILLED TODAY FOR NO GOOD REASON :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Typical response from one who no more has a desire to actually listen to anything but already held presuppositions and really has nothing to say but personal attacks....

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
The Vietnam war lasted a decade, so did the Soviet war in Afganistahn. This current war in the middle east is different than Vietnam or Korea. We were attacked on our home turf. Sept. 11 fueled a short-term "Remember Pearl Harbor" type patriotism. That lasted for a few months and then died off. The majority of Americans went back to life as usual as a minority got called to war. Unlike World War II, we aren't unified. Many don't agree with the Comander and Chief's strategy. Many think the president's supporters are profiting from the war or even started it.

Sept. 11 has made Americans distrust each other more than ever. One thing for sure, the objective is clear as mud and the only thing that will rally the public is another attack on our homeland. Things may die down around the end of this decade or the terrorists will add more fuel to the fire.

There are so many variables at play here. This could esculate into a bigger, multinational war depending on what Israel does, what the Arab states do, what the US does, and what the terrorists do. This whole mess has the three largest religions mixed up in it with the world's richest oil reserves that everyone want. The Middle East is some of the shittiest real estate in the world. Great if you like heat, bugs, and sand. It's all about who controls the oil, buys the oil, and who supports Israel. Bin Laden just started the bar fight and everyone is punching each other.

Nice post...too bad so many Americans can't see how clear the objective really is...

Cathedral
11-17-2005, 09:42 AM
After 3 years we are still arguing why and how the troops got there.
When are we going to move to the phase where we get to understanding that they ARE there and unify the country in a way that tells the enemy, "You are not going to win this war"?

Sit back and think that it could be very possible (to me it is more than a possibility) that our enemies are looking to the Democrats to secure victory.
I mean really, say your an insurgent, what message would you get from the Liberal position her in America?

I'd get a sense that the war can be won by forcing political breakdown from within the enemies base, the US. I'd keep fighting because half of the enemy is giving me hope that they'll break down and run.

Freedom of Speech is our greatest assest in this country, but it is being abused. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to criticize the President, what i'm saying is that the things being said shouldn't be heard by our enemies because it does make things tougher on our troops in battle.
Though your intentions aren't to support or bolster the enemies resolve, that is exactly what they are taking from it, and to thank you for it they will slit your throat given the opportunity because why?

Because you're an American.

LoungeMachine
11-17-2005, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
After 3 years we are still arguing why and how the troops got there.
.

Brother, Cat......

That was not the intent of this thread.

It was to point out that 3 years later, 5 Brave Marines died along the Syrian border in a fire fight.

A fire fight???????????

Why?

How many more must die?? :mad:


-LM

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Brother, Cat......

That was not the intent of this thread.

It was to point out that 3 years later, 5 Brave Marines died along the Syrian border in a fire fight.

A fire fight???????????

Why?

How many more must die?? :mad:


-LM

Lounge, hopefully no one here disagrees with the pain any American soldiers death brings....if this is SOLELY your point then amen to your post and I can let it lay at that...

However, it seems that the use of casualties to emotionally stir up a hatred for this war is just a mirror image of the often used argument that soldiers are being used in Iraq for political gain....

ANYTIME an American soldier is used for political gain is wrong, period....

Again, if the thread is solely a lament for soldiers then yes I agree wholeheartidly, but if used to add fuel to the anti-war rant, then you are guilty of the very thing you dispise....using a soldier...

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 10:03 AM
Did you want extra sauce on your pizza? ;)

Cathedral
11-17-2005, 10:06 AM
I know that, Lounge.
But some posts in here reflect what is being said in Washington and i'm just tired of the fighting.

I know your position, and i respect it, and my post wasn't aimed at you or the thread for that matter.

I came to the center from the right, if i can do it so can everyone on either side and we must do it for our troops.
Bush will most likely be in office until '09, the new administration doesn't take hold until january of '09, right?

Well, that is way way too long for our soldiers to be in the middle of the political battles here at home while fighting the enemy there.

I honestly believe that this war can end much quicker if we at least put up the front that we are unified against the insurgents and tone down the content of the attacks against Bush.

One of the rules of war is to take the enemies weakness and make it a strength for your side to use against them, that is what they are counting on in Washington, they are hoping and praying to Alah that we break down and run.

I do not want to fight over this shit among my fellow Americans and if both sides of the political spectrum truly supports the troops, we'd think of them first, that's all i'm saying and it's why I abandoned the Republican Party for a more central view of it all.

Join me, for their sake, then when we can pull out and y'all can put the screws to Bush with my support.
In other words, let's put the political attack dogs back in the pen in an attempt to expidite this war and end it ASAP.

Seshmeister
11-17-2005, 10:57 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Who gave Donnie that Army?


:gulp:


Yeah that's the problem.

The US not spending enough on attack. Sorry, forgot - you call it defence.

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
You liberals piss me off....

SIDE NOTE: if you are right and this war is so unjust and it really is for nothing then I WILL be the first one to stand up to the plate and say I was wrong

Back to the rant:

When these terrorists come to your town and blow up your families, kids, friends, and neighbors - AND DON'T THINK FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T LOVE TO DO IT RIGHT NOW - then may be you will understand why we are fighting over there....

All you against the war need to buy a plane ticket and go over and try to be diplomatic with these people...the fact is you will end up in an orange suit, on TV, having your head cut off by a dull swiss army knife...

Thank God we have a President that stands up for something...he isn't the best at numerous things, but on fighting terrorism he is much better than the alternative of Kerry/Edwards....

Are you in the military tough guy?

Let me guess; you never, ever served.:)

In anycase, no IRAQIs are coming here (unless we stay there), and even then, it's unlikey...

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I think our brave young Marines need to spend about two more weeks on the rifle range before coming out of Boot Camp and the Democrats in Congress need to STFU when budget increases are needed for the increased ammo.

:gun: :gun: :gun:

Yeah, throw money at the problem! Instead of spending seven-times more on defense than the next country, let's spend 10-times more, and watch our economy slip even more into the toilet as the CHINESE take over the world. BRILLIANT!

Maybe all the selfish assholes crying about their taxes are to blame?

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Who gave Donnie that Army?

George BUSH? Actually, it's not HIS Army fool! They're not his fucking toys to use to plan worldwide mayhem with!:mad:


Who didn't armor those Humvees before hand?

BUSH? If everything had gone to plan, why would they have needed armor to begin with? Let's not rewrite history, eh BRIAN? No one said anything about protracted guerilla war featuring roadside bombs? Did they?

In any case, let's blame CLINTON only for the actual military "blunders" on his watch, and let the BUSH administration take the responsibility for what happens on THEIR watch, like "good" ***sigh***vomit***chunks coming up**** "conservatives."


Oh, that's right, they were never intended for those types of missions or to be an armored personnel carrier.

So why ARE THEY ON THOSE MISSIONS? AM I missing something here?


The Humvee was a replacement for the Jeep, nothing more.
:gulp:

DAMN YOU RONALD REAGAN!! It's all HIS FAULT! (That's when the HUMVEE was developed);)

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
you just got a 5 star vote from me pal!

One star for every IQ point.:)

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 12:41 PM
Nick,

You're no daisy....

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
Nick,

You're no daisy....

Why DR. CHIPPY, you look like somebody just walked across your grave...

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 01:13 PM
At least we can agree about the movie being good!

Nickdfresh
11-17-2005, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by DR CHIP
At least we can agree about the movie being good!

Uhuhuhuhuh! It is grate, I need to get the sp. ed. DVD.

DR CHIP
11-17-2005, 02:47 PM
On that note....I may let you be my huckleberry :)

blueturk
11-17-2005, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Turk,

You're not actually expecting Dr. CowChip to give you an answer other than what he's learned listening to Rush while delivering our pizzas, are you ;)



11.16.05

5 MORE MARINES KILLED TODAY FOR NO GOOD REASON :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'd like for ANY of the sheep to tell me what the deal is with bin Laden. but they won't touch that one. Can anybody in the flock explain this? Just ONE fucking sheep?



"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

"I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

"...Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on
official White House site

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

"I am truly not that concerned about him."
- G.W. Bush, repsonding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts,
3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)

LoungeMachine
11-17-2005, 04:38 PM
wow.

Guess he "flip-flopped" on that one, Turk.

pathetic.

Warham
11-17-2005, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
wow.

Guess he "flip-flopped" on that one, Turk.

pathetic.

John Kerry must have rubbed off on him.

blueturk
11-17-2005, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
wow.

Guess he "flip-flopped" on that one, Turk.

pathetic.

Just one of many...

Keeyth
11-17-2005, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
It's like they're not even people to him.

Hey, that's what Elvis calls supporting the troops, eh?

Keeyth
11-17-2005, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Warham
John Kerry must have rubbed off on him.

We could only wish that. It would make Bush a better president if he had.

Warham
11-17-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by Keeyth
We could only wish that. It would make Bush a better president if he had.

Please. That's like saying Michael Dukakis made John Kerry better because he rubbed off on him while Herman was Lt. Governor.

Keeyth
11-17-2005, 05:43 PM
Hey LoungeMachine,

Here's at least one our guys got back at:

http://www.gagreport.com/shocking_videos_terrorist_owned_by_US_Marines.htm

Keeyth
11-17-2005, 05:47 PM
And a few more:
http://www.gagreport.com/shocking_videos_US_sniper_in_iraq.htm

blueturk
11-17-2005, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
I'd like for ANY of the sheep to tell me what the deal is with bin Laden. but they won't touch that one. Can anybody in the flock explain this? Just ONE fucking sheep?



I hate to use my own quote, but it's so quiet out there in the pasture...

Warham
11-17-2005, 07:13 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
I hate to use my own quote, but it's so quiet out there in the pasture...

Probably tuning you out, since you've overdone yourself on quotes in the past.

blueturk
11-17-2005, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Probably tuning you out, since you've overdone yourself on quotes in the past.

I only quoted myself last time. I don't think the sheep have an answer.

LoungeMachine
11-17-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Probably tuning you out, since you've overdone yourself on quotes in the past.

Funny how you never have an answer other than .....but Clinton:rolleyes:

Warham
11-17-2005, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Funny how you never have an answer other than .....but Clinton:rolleyes:

I just choose not to go in circles with you liberals on this war any longer. The time for any mind-changing is past us.

Keeyth
11-17-2005, 07:35 PM
Don't you mean to say having an open mind is beyond you?

FORD
11-17-2005, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I just choose not to go in circles with you liberals on this war any longer. The time for any mind-changing is past us.

I thought YOU changed your mind last week? :confused:

Warham
11-17-2005, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by FORD
I thought YOU changed your mind last week? :confused:

I said my biggest beef with Bush was illegal immigration, not the War. I STILL think we did the right thing over there. My gripe with Dubya is domestic spending (he never vetoes anything) and Mexicans driving, walking, or crawling over the line.

blueturk
11-17-2005, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I said my biggest beef with Bush was illegal immigration, not the War. I STILL think we did the right thing over there.


And what exactly are we doing over there? And why? I'd seriously like to know...

Warham
11-17-2005, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
And what exactly are we doing over there? And why? I'd seriously like to know...

Why do you ask these questions when you already know what the answers are going to be? That's an answer I'd LOVE to hear.

ODShowtime
11-17-2005, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
Bin Laden just started the bar fight and everyone is punching each other.

That's a pretty good analogy.

LoungeMachine
11-17-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Why do you ask these questions when you already know what the answers are going to be? That's an answer I'd LOVE to hear.




Typical chickenshit/chickenhawk response :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
11-18-2005, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I said my biggest beef with Bush was illegal immigration, not the War. I STILL think we did the right thing over there. My gripe with Dubya is domestic spending (he never vetoes anything) and Mexicans driving, walking, or crawling over the line.

WARHAM's a flipflopper...
http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/images/HowTo.JPG

FORD
11-18-2005, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I said my biggest beef with Bush was illegal immigration, not the War. I STILL think we did the right thing over there. My gripe with Dubya is domestic spending (he never vetoes anything) and Mexicans driving, walking, or crawling over the line.

Actually, that wasn't the problem at all. You were pissed because you realized that Chimpy and his cabal of neocon clowns had been stringing along the "Christian" right, using them for votes, but blowing off their agenda.

ELVIS
11-18-2005, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Keeyth
Hey, that's what Elvis calls supporting the troops, eh?

What the fuck are you projecting onto me now ??

You drugged out dishonest liar...

Warham
11-18-2005, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Actually, that wasn't the problem at all. You were pissed because you realized that Chimpy and his cabal of neocon clowns had been stringing along the "Christian" right, using them for votes, but blowing off their agenda.

Yep, that too.

Warham
11-18-2005, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
WARHAM's a flipflopper...
http://www.iowapresidentialwatch.com/images/HowTo.JPG

No. I've never flipped on any issue. I've always supported us in the War. I've not ONCE ever said on this forum that we shouldn't have gone over there, even when I did become disturbed at some of the things Dubya was doing. Like I said, illegal immigration, domestic spending, among other things...

Keeyth
11-18-2005, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
What the fuck are you projecting onto me now ??

You drugged out dishonest liar...

Shut up you fuckin drunk-assed closet crack head. You support the troops by not caring that our guys died and only asking how many of the enemy die? WTF?? Climb back in your bottle and STFU.

FORD
11-18-2005, 11:25 AM
What's this?

Battle of the 12 - steppers?

Go do some drugs

Ah, crawl back in your bottle

Fuck you. I'm more sober than you are!

Oh yeah?? Well my Higher Power can kick your Higher Power's ass!!

....and all the friends of Bill W. hung their heads in silence and prayed the Serenity prayer..... :(

Keeyth
11-18-2005, 11:38 AM
LMAO! :D

Yeah, well he decided to start the name calling and questioning my sobriety, and I let myself get sucked into his stupidity and did it right back.

I repent! :D He's obviously still got some deeper issues...

blueturk
11-18-2005, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Why do you ask these questions when you already know what the answers are going to be? That's an answer I'd LOVE to hear.

What a fucking cop-out. That "response" was worthy of Bush himself. Talk about going in circles....

"I just choose not to go in circles with you liberals on this war any longer. The time for any mind-changing is past us" - Warham, Nov. 17, 2005

Nickdfresh
11-18-2005, 07:09 PM
I going to drink an ice-cold beer tonight.:)

Cathedral
11-18-2005, 07:20 PM
As a right wing nut-job that loves his country and those who share it with me...Can we all just try to get along?

I'm sure that if we just sit down and work together we'll find a Republican we can all like and elect them President... :)

thome
11-18-2005, 07:21 PM
So, now the latest Is," The Cabal of Neo-Cons," jeez.

I wish I had more to say Like WIERRRRDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!

Like that freeky, Back up to top of the slide, then I come Down, an I see
you againnnnnnnnnn.Wierd

Nickdfresh
11-18-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
As a right wing nut-job that loves his country and those who share it with me...Can we all just try to get along?

I'm sure that if we just sit down and work together we'll find a Republican we can all like and elect them President... :)

They'll never let Sen. JOHN McCAIN in the door.

Cathedral
11-18-2005, 08:05 PM
Ya know, I could actually vote for that guy this time around.
At least he seems honest, and i think he's a cool dude.

LoungeMachine
11-18-2005, 08:15 PM
Me three.

I'd pull the lever for McCain just knowing how much it would piss off Chimpy, Turd Blossom, and the rest of those assholes.

He and Hagel are the two Republicans I could vote for.

ODShowtime
11-18-2005, 09:02 PM
I concur

LoungeMachine
11-18-2005, 09:07 PM
I believe we have a quorum......


McCain / Hagel 2008



Shit, would this mean we'd have to make lame Clinton Jokes like warham?

ODShowtime
11-18-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't know man, but we have to vote for someone, if we are allowed to, that is.

What's up BTW Lounge? long time no bullshittin'

LoungeMachine
11-18-2005, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't know man, but we have to vote for someone, if we are allowed to, that is.

What's up BTW Lounge? long time no bullshittin'


Just watching this episode of the Twilight Zone called Bush/Cheney/Iraq.

Hard to believe.


I'm seriously getting more and more upset everyday that we lose guys over there. I was told "major combat operations" were over 3 years ago. WTF are we doing? Hence this thread.......

Glad to see you're still razor sharp in here though. We've got a good group of progressives in here. I'm looking forward to Nov. '06:cool:

:cool:

-LM

Cathedral
11-18-2005, 10:33 PM
Wow, i had to pick myself up off the floor, I fainted that we are in agreement on McCain.

Let's Git 'Er Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LoungeMachine
11-18-2005, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Wow, i had to pick myself up off the floor, I fainted that we are in agreement on McCain.

Let's Git 'Er Done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



:cool:


I like the guy. It just pissed me off when he stumped for Shrub last year after the hatchet job they did on the guy.


But I do like him for an "R" ;)

Seshmeister
11-18-2005, 10:40 PM
It's kind of funny that congress seems to be about 6 months behind this forum.

Cathedral
11-18-2005, 10:42 PM
That's american politics for ya, Sesh, always in a hurry to go nowhere.

Cathedral
11-18-2005, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:cool:


I like the guy. It just pissed me off when he stumped for Shrub last year after the hatchet job they did on the guy.


But I do like him for an "R" ;)

I think after W, McCain would actually have a shot next time around.
Now is the time to make noise on that front.

Nickdfresh
11-18-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
It's kind of funny that congress seems to be about 6 months behind this forum.

They seem to be just catching up to Parliament though...(with all the raucousness and lack of decorum --it's grate!:)).

ODShowtime
11-18-2005, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
It just pissed me off when he stumped for Shrub last year after the hatchet job they did on the guy.


But I do like him for an "R" ;)

the world's all about degradation and redemption

Nickdfresh
11-18-2005, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
:cool:


I like the guy. It just pissed me off when he stumped for Shrub last year after the hatchet job they did on the guy.


But I do like him for an "R" ;)

There's a grate animated SNL skit (to "Real Audio" on the whatever "(Fun?) TV Playhouse") about that, where McCain had Vietnam "flashbacks." Priceless...

FORD
11-19-2005, 12:07 AM
I would have voted for the pre-2000 McCain over Hillary without a second thought. But the guy has kissed so much BCE ass that it's hard to take him as seriously anymore :(

Seshmeister
11-19-2005, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I would have voted for the pre-2000 McCain over Hillary without a second thought. But the guy has kissed so much BCE ass that it's hard to take him as seriously anymore :(

Guilianni really went down in my estimation with his Bush cocksucking during the election...:(

Cathedral
11-19-2005, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I would have voted for the pre-2000 McCain over Hillary without a second thought. But the guy has kissed so much BCE ass that it's hard to take him as seriously anymore :(

You can't fault the guy for having to play the game though. He hasn't been locked in total step with the Bushies.
He isn't scared to challenge an issue if he is dead set against it.