US Marshal Fires Aboard Jet in Miami

[LoungeMachine]

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: December 7, 2005

MIAMI (AP) -- Shots were fired Wednesday from a federal air marshal's gun on board an American Airlines jet that had landed at Miami International Airport, an official said. At least one person was wounded, according to broadcast reports.

A law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed shots were fired from the marshal's gun.

The plane had just arrived from Colombia and was headed to Orlando, the broadcast reports said. Television images showed police SWAT officers surrounding the plane.

Airport and Miami-Dade County police officials said they had no immediate comment. American Airlines officials had no immediate comment.





Must've been someone trying to bring mom's good scissors onboard

[Nickdfresh]

Dupe!:mad:
























Who cares?:D

[LoungeMachine]

I thought you were taking 3 minutes off to masturbate to Lesbian porn????

Finished early, I see...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I thought you were taking 3 minutes off to masturbate to Lesbian porn????

Finished early, I see...

It was a minute-thirty!:mad:

And yes, I was gone 45 seconds.:D

[Nickdfresh]

Okay, well use this one...


CNN just reported the Colombian guy has died.

[LoungeMachine]

But it was onboard, not in the airport, right?

[Guitar Shark]

It was in the jetway actually.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
It was in the jetway actually.

See! You dare 2 question me you "Fools!":o

On a serious note, he apparently was insane, and was running up and down the isle of the aircraft with his wife chasing him...

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
See! You dare 2 question me you "Fools!"

Ah, but I would argue that the jetway is neither "onboard" nor in the "airport" -- it's in between. ;)

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Ah, but I would argue that the jetway is neither "onboard" nor in the "airport" -- it's in between. ;)

fucking lawyers:rolleyes:

You realize Nick that post just cost us $325.00

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Ah, but I would argue that the jetway is neither "onboard" nor in the "airport" -- it's in between. ;)

Yes, it's in a seprate magical dimension of Narnia, totally apart from the airport...

The guy was a US citizen, 44-yrs old...

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
fucking lawyers:rolleyes:

You realize Nick that post just cost us $325.00

You can split it between you. No personal checks please

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
You can split it between you. No personal checks please

Fine

50/50 Nick

That would make you half.....um $275.00

:cool:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Fine

50/50 Nick

That would make you half.....um $275.00

:cool:

Um, would you accept GM stock in lieu of cash?

[Guitar Shark]

No, but I might be interested in a board position at Cuntico Oil.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
No, but I might be interested in a board position at Cuntico Oil.

Well, we'll definitely need lawyers!:D

[Ally_Kat]

44-year-old American citizen. His wife is starting to claim he was bipolar and wasn't on his meds.

But the dolt yells he has a bomb, runs away, runs back, defies orders by the marshalls, challenges them, and then tries to run off again. They shot to kill.

I bet you the wife will file a lawsuit. And there will be people saying he was an innocent victim. Personally, I think he deserves what he got. You don't go fucking around with airports, bombs, and air marshalls.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
You don't go fucking around with airports, bombs, and air marshalls.


or Ally Kat for that matter......


;)

[Dr. Love]

I wouldn't mind going and fucking around with Ally Kat.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
But the dolt yells he has a bomb, runs away, runs back, defies orders by the marshalls, challenges them, and then tries to run off again. They shot to kill.



No, If they shot to kill, he'd be dead...

He should consider himself lucky...

He got what he deserved...

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No, If they shot to kill, he'd be dead...

He should consider himself lucky...

He got what he deserved...

He IS dead.

What a very Christianlike post... ;)

[ELVIS]

I just read another story...

He is dead...

Oh well...

He got what he deserved...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark

What a very Christianlike post... ;)

Bullshit!

Jesus, God or the Bible are not against justice, and protection of citizens...

You non-christians, as well as alot of Christians have a totally wrong idea...

Thou shalt not kill in no way applies to this air marshall doing his job...

[Warham]

How did Christianity sneak into this thread, like about 90% of all threads Elvis posts in?

[Nickdfresh]

What's the meaning of God?

KILL KILL KILL!!

http://www.bbspot.com/Images/News_Features/2003/12/charles_manson.jpg

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Warham
How did Christianity sneak into this thread, like about 90% of all threads Elvis posts in?

ELVIS injects religious issues into threads all the time. It's a big part of his life, which I have no problem with.

[MAX]

One of my best friends is an Air Marshall. They're beyond fucking trained when it's necessary to use their firearm. It has to be an extreme situation. No doubt in my mind the victim got what he deserved. The Air Marshalls fly five days out of the week all over and several flights a day. Shit like this is a rarity.

[Guitar Shark]

MAX, this forum is for smart people only. Please confine your posts to other forums.

[ELVIS]

It's unfortunate that the man may have been mentally ill, but his wife should have made sure he had his medication, if this is, in fact, the case...

[MAX]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
MAX, this forum is for smart people only. Please confine your posts to other forums.

I don't get it? :confused: :p

*dragging knuckles and walks away*

[MAX]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It's unfortunate that the man may have been mentally ill, but his wife should have made sure he had his medication, if this is, in fact, the case...

I agree but the Air Marshall would have had no doubts that the guy was a serious threat to the safety of others to actually use force.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
It's unfortunate that the man may have been mentally ill, but his wife should have made sure he had his medication, if this is, in fact, the case...

Okay, NOW you're making sense...

It's a tragedy plain and simple...

The guy didn't "deserve" to die, but then again, if I were the Air Marshal, I'd probably have had shot him...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by MAX
I agree but the Air Marshall would have had no doubts that the guy was a serious threat to the safety of others to actually use force.

You mean he's an Air 'Marshal?'

[Cathedral]

I won't say the man got what he deserved, but he definately got what he asked for.
A lawsuit will not pay off for the wife because there are too many witnesses that heard him claim to have a bomb, but she'll try in a failed attempt to ease her own guilt for not making sure he had his medication.

That said, people will raise such a stink about it that Marshall's will be taken off the planes leaving the rest of the public unprotected when a real terrorist with a real bomb does get on board.

What have we learned today boys and girls?
We learned that the old saying, "The devil made me do it" has been replaced by "But he forgot his meds".......Well, crazy or not none of us are exempt from paying for our own bad decisions, well, he paid heavily for his.

On a side note, if my Bi-polar spouse was going to be getting on a plane or spending any amount of time in public, i'd have seen to it that their meds were taken.

It's sad, but i look to the positive part of the incident....The Marshall did his job and the system worked, can't ignore that little detail. ;)

[Nickdfresh]

I don't know much about bi-polar disorder, or how booths effects one with the disorder, but I guess the guy was drinking on board too...

[MAX]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You mean he's an Air 'Marshal?'

To quote the fella in your av...

"Well Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me!!!" lol :p ;)

[Cathedral]

My question is this, who doesn't know we live in a trigger happy society?
I'm just itching to put some lead in the ass of an evildoer who decides to cross my path...if you scream bomb, you get shot. you raise a weapon to me, you get shot.

Crying wolf is a thing of the past.....Today, you get shot, it's easy math.

[ELVIS]

Oh, he was drinking also ??

His wife should get charges...

[FORD]

If indeed the guy claimed to have a bomb, that didn't leave the air marshal with many options. :(

What I don't understand is why the man's wife didn't clear up that misunderstanding. I doubt the marshal would have deemed it neccessary to kill a man he knew was unarmed.

A fucking avoidable tragedy, born of national paranoia.

[ELVIS]

What if he really had a bomb and his wife was in on it ??

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What if he really had a bomb and his wife was in on it ??

They detonated the guy's carry-on bag, and had bomb-sniffing dogs go over everything in the baggage compartment. No bombs anywhere. The guy panicked. In a really stupid way, unfortunately.

[ELVIS]

Who panicked ??

I did a search for Rigoberto Alpizar...

I wonder what this character looks like...

[LoungeMachine]

I'm sure he looks like a terraist.......

[ELVIS]

Quite possibly...

[FORD]

They showed a picture of the guy on TV. Light skinned hispanic, looked like a normal guy.

[ELVIS]

Did he look anything like this ??

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:QVHiL7wrOLcJ:img.coxnewsweb.com/B/08/20/23/image_1523208.jpg


:elvis:

[ELVIS]

Or maybe this...

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/images/I6467-2002Aug11


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Quite possibly...

That was sarcasm.......:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Remind me again, what race was Timothy McVie ?

[ELVIS]

he was a white american...

And your point is ??

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What if he really had a bomb and his wife was in on it ??

God would have known and then given him what he deserved...?

[ELVIS]

Oh c'mon, Sesh...:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
he was a white american...

And your point is ??

That Evil, murderous "terrorists" come in many colors [ and many faiths ]

Yes or no, ELVIS

The world has known many Christian Terrorists

[ to quote warham, it's a simple question ]

:cool:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
he was a white american...

And your point is ??

Actually, he was a white, American Christian

Isn't it funny you left that part out...

[ELVIS]

I don't know how you can call him a Christian...:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

I didn't

He did.



Get it now?

[ELVIS]

No he didn't...

He may have been at one time...

McVeigh had mid east ties...

He was used in an attempt to start a cultural / race war...

He was also stupid...


McVeigh was no Christian!

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS






McVeigh had mid east ties...




!


Oh, this should be good....


Please, by all means..........:cool:

[ELVIS]

Al-Qaeda’s OKC-9/11 Ties (http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/printer_135.shtml)
by William F. Jasper
July 26, 2004


Al-Qaeda ties to the OKC bombing were not mentioned in the state trial of Terry Nichols, yet evidence used by federal prosecutors in recent cases makes the ties obvious.

Zacarias Moussaoui, dubbed the "20th hijacker" by federal prosecutors, would have been released from federal custody before the 9-11 attacks if not for the heroic persistence of field agents in the FBI’s Minneapolis office. Agent Coleen Rowley and members of her FBI team carried on a running fight with top FBI and Justice Department officials who tried to stop the Minnesota investigation and prevented a search of his laptop computer until after his fellow conspirators crashed their hijacked planes on September 11.

Moussaoui, a French citizen of Moroccan descent, was arrested by the local FBI agents after investigating a tip from Minnesota flight school operators who were suspicious over the nature of his requests for training on a 747 simulator. He has admitted to being a member of Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda terrorist group, but denies that he was part of the 9-11 conspiracy. His trial has been delayed by his erratic behavior and numerous appeals.

There are many important, unanswered questions concerning Moussaoui. For instance: Why have federal officials pointedly ignored publicly available facts showing that most of the $64,000 he received from al-Qaeda sources was spent in the Oklahoma City area, where he attended the Airman Flight School in nearby Norman and had ties to a top suspect in the 1995 bombing of Oklahoma City’s Murrah Building? The largest chunk of Moussaoui’s funds, $35,000, was provided by al-Qaeda paymaster Yazid Sufaat, one of the principal hosts of the secret al-Qaeda planning meeting for 9-11 in Malaysia. Moussaoui, according to federal authorities, was operating under the direction of al-Qaeda mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who met in the Philippines with his nephew, World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef, during the same time period that Yousef was meeting with Terry Nichols.

September 11 hijacker Ziad Jarrah’s ticket (United Airlines Flight 93) was purchased from a computer terminal at Oklahoma University in Norman. Moussaoui was a frequent visitor to the OU campus, worked out at the OU gym and recruited OU student Hussain Al-Attas. September 11 hijacker Mohammed Atta, a member of al-Qaeda’s cell in Hamburg, Germany, visited the same Norman, Oklahoma, flight school that Moussaoui attended.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/uploads/trial.jpg
Zacarias Moussaoui, the “20th hijacker,” is shown (in green prison uniform) in a courtroom drawing of his arraignment on July 25, 2002 in U.S. District Court. Moussaoui, an admitted al-Qaeda member, is a friend and former roommate of OKC bombing suspect Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta.


Fellow Hamburg Cell hijacker Marwan Al-Shehhi also came to the Oklahoma City area, where he got a speeding ticket in 2001. According to the testimony of the owner of a small motel in Oklahoma City, Moussaoui, Atta and Al-Shehhi all came to his motel together to rent a room about six weeks prior to the 9-11 attacks. Six years earlier, Oklahoma City bombing conspirators Timothy McVeigh and Nichols also were guests at the same motel, along with several Middle Eastern men, weeks prior to the OKC bombing.

Terrorist, Informant or Agent Provocateur?

Perhaps the most important and purposely neglected "coincidence" concerning Moussaoui is his connection to convicted felon Melvin Lattimore, a convert to Islam who now goes by the name Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta. The unwillingness of federal authorities to hold Lattimore/Menepta as a 9-11 suspect in the case is stunning. Equally stunning is the fact that he was never arrested as a suspect in the Oklahoma City bombing. Here are some key facts concerning Menepta tying him to the biggest terrorist events in U.S. history:

• Lattimore/Menepta’s credit card was used to help finance the 1993 World Trade Center bombing directed by Ramzi Yousef.

• Federal ATF Agent Jeffrey Whitney has testified in court that one day after the Oklahoma City bombing, an FBI informant told FBI superiors that Menepta should be considered a top suspect in the Oklahoma attack.

• Several employees at Travelers Aid, one block from the Murrah Building, identified Menepta as entering the Travelers Aid office with three other men the day before the Oklahoma City bombing. Two of the men accompanying Menepta were identified as closely resembling associates of McVeigh, and one of the witnesses positively identified the vehicle that the group drove away in as McVeigh’s beat-up Mercury Marquis.

• Menepta was a member of a militant mosque in St. Louis and is now a member of a radical mosque in Norman, where he says he saw Moussaoui on a daily basis. According to Oklahoma news accounts, Menepta and Moussaoui were roommates in Norman, while Moussaoui attended flight school.

• Menepta’s roommate, Al-Attas, drove Moussaoui from Oklahoma to Minnesota to begin flight school there. When Al-Attas was arrested, Menepta drove to Minnesota and posted $5,000 bail for his release.

• When Menepta and Al-Attas returned to Norman on August 21, 2001, more than three weeks before 9-11, agents from the Oklahoma City FBI office knocked on their apartment door. According to the agents, several men fled the apartment and exited the building before the agents could react. Also, according to FBI documents, 9-11 hijacker Salem Al-Hazmi was seen in Menepta’s Norman apartment in April 2001.

• Menepta was arrested one month after the 9-11 attacks as a material witness and possible co-conspirator. Menepta vigorously defended Moussaoui as a "scapegoat."

• Menepta was prosecuted for illegally possessing weapons as a convicted felon. (He had been convicted of robbery in 1971 and served four years in prison.) He was sentenced in 2002 to 15 months in prison and is now back on the street.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/uploads/smith.jpg
Steadfast witness: Gloria Smith, who managed the office of a charitable organization one block from the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, told FBI agents that Melvin Lattimore/Menepta came to her office with other men in McVeigh’s car. A federal ATF agent has testified in court that one day after the bombing an undercover informant fingered Menepta as the top suspect.


The New American interviewed Gloria Smith, a manager at Travelers Aid in Oklahoma City, who is positive that Menepta/Lattimore is one of the men who came into her office the day before the Oklahoma City bombing. The men had asked for gasoline money or vouchers and had become loud and argumentative when the receptionist explained that they would have to first provide a valid driver’s license. Mrs. Smith stepped out of her office to reinforce her besieged receptionist and to emphasize the company policy requiring photo I.D. before aid could be given. The men left in a huff, and Mrs. Smith watched them through the office window as they got into the car and drove off.

She told The New American that the man who had done most of the talking, and who had long, reddish-blonde hair, "flipped me ‘the finger’" as he got into the car. He had also cursed her in the office, just a few feet from her face, so she had good reason to remember him. She is fairly certain, she says, that the man is James Rosencrans, based on photos she has examined of Rosencrans. Mr. Rosencrans is a former associate of Timothy McVeigh and the Kingman, Arizona, neighbor of Michael Fortier, McVeigh’s fellow bombing conspirator who turned witness for the government in exchange for leniency for himself and his wife, Lori Fortier.

Of two things Mrs. Smith is "very certain": The black man in the group who came to her office is Menepta, and the car they drove was McVeigh’s Mercury Marquis. She says she got a good look at Menepta. And, she notes, as soon as McVeigh’s car appeared on television news broadcasts, she knew instantly it was the one that had been in her parking lot. She recalls: "I said to the receptionist when they pulled out, ‘No wonder they didn’t give I.D., there’s not even a tag on the car.’" When McVeigh was arrested the next day, shortly after the bombing, there was no license plate on the vehicle.

Mrs. Smith and other employees at Travelers Aid were interviewed several times by the FBI, in Mrs. Smith’s case about 10 times. One of the things that she says has troubled her most about the investigation is that rather than simply asking her and the other witnesses what and who they saw, on several occasions the agents were very insistent on convincing the witnesses that they could not have seen a black man (Menepta) with the suspects.


http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/uploads/rosencrans.jpg
Still at large: Witnesses and government documents connect Melvin Lattimore aka Majahid Abdulquaadir Menepta (left) to at least three of the largest terrorist attacks in U.S. history. Witnesses place Lattimore/Menepta and Timothy McVeigh’s friend James Rosencrans (right) next door to the Murrah Building one day before the OKC bombing — in Timothy McVeigh’s car.


At any rate, the FBI Travelers Aid interviews, recorded in written form on the FBI’s "302s," should have shown up in the documents that the government was required to turn over to the defense teams in the McVeigh and Nichols trials. They never were turned over, and now they seem to have disappeared.

It’s understandable that Nichols’ defense team would not want to open up the Oklahoma City-Middle East connection, since so much of it leads to their client. But why have federal officials gone to such extraordinary lengths to obstruct every effort to expose these connections? And why are they protecting Lattimore/Menepta? Is he a terrorist, a federal informant, an agent provocateur — or all of the above?




:elvis:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
I don't know how you can call him a Christian...:rolleyes:

Well, he was a morally vain hypocrite...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No he didn't...

He may have been at one time...

McVeigh had mid east ties...
....


McVeigh was no Christian!

'Mideast' is one word fool, a sign of illiteracy...

And "Mideast ties?" Pul-eeze!:rolleyes:, and you get pissed at 9/11 inside job threads? (idiot, hypocrite!:anger: )

I'll be getting your tin-foil beanie fitted...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well, he was a morally vain hypocrite...

Well then...

That would make him a Fundamentalist Christian

:cool:

[FORD]

The John Birch Society???

Fuckin A, Elvis you can do better than those fucking nazi cowards.

[Warham]

Can we get back on topic, please?

[ELVIS]

What was it...:D

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by FORD
If indeed the guy claimed to have a bomb, that didn't leave the air marshal with many options. :(

What I don't understand is why the man's wife didn't clear up that misunderstanding. I doubt the marshal would have deemed it neccessary to kill a man he knew was unarmed.

A fucking avoidable tragedy, born of national paranoia.

you don't say you have a bomb in an airplane/airport, just like you don't yell fire in a movie theater.

And while we're asking why the wife didn't do things, why didn't she plead with her husband to comply with the marshals? He challenged them, told them he had a bomb in his bag, ran up and down the aisles, and then approached them and went into his bag. They told him to lie down. He didn't want to listen. His own fault.

[LoungeMachine]

The "topic" is now on ice with a tag on his toe.

The whole thing is a tragedy.

I think this thread has run it's course until further news comes out

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I don't know much about bi-polar disorder, or how booths effects one with the disorder, but I guess the guy was drinking on board too...

bi-polars get paranoid a lot. They also can go from really happy to really depressed at the drop of a pin. I haven't known one to do anything like this.

[Cathedral]

Yep, this thread was stopped dead in its tracks like a suicide bomber on an airplane.

Was that insensitive?
Good, then my point is clear. :)

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
bi-polars get paranoid a lot. They also can go from really happy to really depressed at the drop of a pin. I haven't known one to do anything like this.

I'm in agreement with that, there is more to the story i'm sure, but i don't really care because he controlled the beginning, the middle, and the end of the whole situation.

I'm just a little pissed because i can already smell the stink from people bitching about the system because it worked.
Now this man will be humanized in a way that causes sympathy in the media that leads to people wanting the marshal's ass in a sling.

Here in reality it's the crazy one's you HAVE to watch, not treat them like "special people" who are some how exempt from actually detonating a bomb on a plane.

The Marshal is a hero in my book because nobody pushed that idiot out of his seat and told him to threaten everyone on board saying what he was saying and doing...I'd have most definately, quite positively, without the slightest hesitation shot that mother fucker myself.

To me the tragedy is that it happened at all, not because the dumb ass died in the process.
He asked for it, and then he got it, allllllll of it.....

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Cathedral

Now this man will be humanized in a way that causes sympathy in the media that leads to people wanting the marshal's ass in a sling.



Already done. Most of NYC's broadcast news is asking the question, "did they go too far?", "But he was mentally ill! The gov't supports the murder of mentally ill people! We must stop them."

It made me sick to watch it. And kinda funny because the witness quotes they were using totally contradicted what they were reporting.

[LoungeMachine]

No one is going to be calling for the marshal's head.

By all reports, he was entirely justified.


The outrage comes from the fact we have Air Marshals, but don't screen CARGO

We won't allow scissors, BUT DON'T SCREEN CONTAINERS COMING INTO PORT

We take off our shoes, but DON'T SECURE OUR NUCLEAR FACILITIES

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Already done. Most of NYC's broadcast news is asking the question, "did they go too far?",

UNBELIEVABLE:rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

Here's Alpizar...

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1207/5487298.jpg


:elvis:

[LoungeMachine]

Strange.

He looks exactly like I've always pictured you looking.

Except for the tie.

[ELVIS]

No, I'm white...

[LoungeMachine]

December 8, 2005 |


EXCLUSIVE:

Shoe Bomber Alert Preceded Airport Shooting

Egyptian Man Had Been Stopped at New York Airport; Shoes Tested Positive for Explosive


By BRIAN ROSS and CHRIS ISHAM

Dec. 7, 2005 — Federal law enforcement sources tell ABC News they had been on the alert for a possible shoe bomber when a federal air marshal opened fire at the Miami International Airport today.

In today's incident, an agitated passenger claimed to have a bomb in his backpack was shot and killed by a federal air marshal, officials said. No bomb was found.


Officials say a 50-year old Egyptian man was stopped six days ago at New York's John F. Kennedy airport. Sources say he had a suspicious pair of shoes that tested positive five times for the explosive substance TATP on the interior of his shoes between the heel and sole.

Federal officials say the man's shoes are remarkably similar to those used by shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to blow up an American Airlines jet over the Atlantic four years ago.

The Egyptian man's destination was Des Moines, Iowa, sources say, and he claimed he was a student at Iowa State University, in Ames.

Strangely, after holding him overnight, airport security in New York released him. The FBI was notified after he was released. Now the FBI has put out a nationwide alert.

The man shot dead in Miami appears to have been deranged, but the missing Egyptian may help explain why air marshals acted as they did.

[ELVIS]

Why was he let go...:confused:

[LoungeMachine]

Link for ELVIS, because he thinks I make this shit up

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1383832

[LoungeMachine]

It sure seems to me that this story is a plant to try and help justify the marshal's actions.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine

Officials say a 50-year old Egyptian man was stopped six days ago at New York's John F. Kennedy airport. Sources say he had a suspicious pair of shoes that tested positive five times for the explosive substance TATP on the interior of his shoes between the heel and sole.

Federal officials say the man's shoes are remarkably similar to those used by shoe bomber Richard Reid, who attempted to blow up an American Airlines jet over the Atlantic four years ago.


Exhibit A


http://www.economist.com/images/20040619/2504LD1.jpg

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Already done. Most of NYC's broadcast news is asking the question, "did they go too far?", "But he was mentally ill! The gov't supports the murder of mentally ill people! We must stop them."

It made me sick to watch it. And kinda funny because the witness quotes they were using totally contradicted what they were reporting.

Same thing here, but they went farther and asked the question, "Should armed officers even be aboard airplanes?".

Now people are supposed to be able to tell if someone is actually crazy or just missed pill time when they go off their rocker.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but then we have to apply blame to everyone but the fuckheads who actually created the problems in the first place.

I think it should stand as a lesson to everyone not to go screwing around in public places, and if you have family on medication, see that they take it as scheduled.

End of story...

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Here's Alpizar...

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/1207/5487298.jpg


:elvis:

I loved him in Law and Order.










Come on. You know he looks like him.

[Nickdfresh]

This is starting to get complicated and ugly...
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/12/08/airplane.gunshot/t1.airshoot.ap.jpg
Passengers describe wife's desperation
Man suffered from bipolar disorder, relative says

Thursday, December 8, 2005; Posted: 11:53 a.m. EST (16:53 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/12/08/airplane.gunshot/index.html)) -- Witnesses aboard an American Airlines jetliner say that Rigoberto Alpizar's wife pursued him, saying he was mentally ill, just before federal marshals shot and killed him. Air marshals said Alpizar had announced he was carrying a bomb.

Later, no explosives were found. The incident remains under investigation.

"She was chasing after him," said fellow passenger Alan Tirpak. "She was just saying her husband was sick, her husband was sick." When the woman returned, "she just kept saying the same thing over and over, and that's when we heard the shots."

Another passenger, Mary Gardner of Orlando, said she also overheard Alpizar's wife. "I heard her say, 'He's bipolar. He doesn't have his medicine,'" Gardner recalled.

Ellen Sutliff, who said she sat near Alpizar, described him as agitated, even before he boarded the plane. His wife kept coaxing him, "We just have to get through customs. Please, please help me get through this," according to Sutliff.

"We're going to be home soon, and everything will be all right," Sutliff quoted the wife as saying. (Watch passengers describe the tension in the cabin -- 1:42)

Alpizar's mother-in-law told CNN affiliate WKMG that he suffered from bipolar disorder.

Accounts vary on whether Alpizar had announced he had a bomb.

Tirpak said he didn't hear Alpizar say anything.

Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said Alpizar had run up and down the plane's aisle yelling, "I have a bomb in my bag."

Adams said Alpizar fled the aircraft when marshals confronted him on the boarding bridge.

"They asked the gentleman, 'Drop your bag, drop your bag. Come to the ground. I'm a federal law enforcement officer. Police. Drop your bag,'" Adams told CNN.

"He failed to comply with their commands, continued approaching the air marshals claiming he had a bomb in his bag. And then they ordered him again down to the ground. He didn't."

The marshals fired two or three shots when Alpizar appeared to reach into his bag, Adams said.

"Based on their training they had to take the appropriate action to diffuse the situation to prevent a danger to themselves and also passengers in the terminal," Adams said.

One law enforcement source said the backpack had drawn attention, because Alpizar wore it over his chest, not his back.

It was the first time a federal air marshal fired a weapon at someone since the program was bolstered after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The two marshals who fired at Alpizar were placed on administrative leave pending the investigation, the air marshal service said.

The agency said Alpizar was not on any terror watch lists.
Marshals on plane

Gardner said that before the shooting, a fight broke out between the Alpizars. She said she was comforted after an airline pilot seated beside her said air marshals were on the plane and aware of the situation.

Gardner said the situation became more tense when the wife received a phone call on the plane.

"There was something going on that just was not right, and the pilot told me, he said ... 'Look, there's a marshal right there, they know what's going on. We're covered.'

"So we all felt fine, and then, of course, everything happened."

Alpizar ran off the plane clutching a bag, chased by a man in a Hawaiian shirt, passenger Mike Beshears told CNN. That man turned out to be one of the two air marshals.

Beshears said he did not hear Alpizar say anything. "He just was in a hurry and exited the plane," he said.

Alpizar's wife also followed him part of the way down the aisle, then returned to her seat saying, her husband was sick and she needed to get his bags, Beshears said.

"After she passed back toward her seat ... a number of shots rang out -- at least five, up to six, shots rang out. And I saw the flight attendants returning, running down first class toward coach, and we were all told, 'Get down, get down.'

"The gentleman's wife had made it back up," Beshears recalled. "And about the time she got to the row in which we were crouched, the flight attendant -- I have to commend her on the way she handled the situation -- she actually intercepted the lady and took her down in the aisle with myself and a guy."

Marshals entered the plane and ordered everyone to put their hands on their heads, while they searched it, Gardner said.

After the shooting, investigators took passengers' luggage off the plane, and an explosives team blew open Alpizar's luggage on the tarmac. A subsequent search of Alpizar's backpack and luggage aboard the aircraft turned up no sign of a bomb, Bauer said.
Neighbors recall Alpizar as the guy next door

Alpizar, a U.S. citizen, had boarded American Airlines Flight 924 in Miami to fly to Orlando, Florida. The 44-year-old Maitland, Florida, resident had just connected from a flight from Ecuador.

Neighbors and family described him as a nice guy and said the image that federal marshals painted of him was at odds with the man they knew. (Full story)

A neighbor, Janice Tweedie, called Alpizar "very friendly and helpful to people around the neighborhood ... a very pleasant person, he and his wife both."

"I've never seen any erratic behavior from him at all," Tweedie said.

Alpizar moved to the United States from Costa Rica in 1986 and worked for Home Depot, his brother-in-law, Steven Buechner, told CNN. He said that Alpizar and his wife had been in South America since the day after Thanksgiving to help out her uncle, a volunteer dentist.

Buechner said the couple had no children and that he was unaware of any mental health issues Alpizar may have had.

[ELVIS]

Ok, I'm convinced...

It's a BCE assasination...


:elvis:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Exhibit A


http://www.economist.com/images/20040619/2504LD1.jpg

I'm pretty sure those are Ronnie Mc Donald's shoes from the last KISS tour when he played all of Ace's guitar parts.

[lesfunk]

If you have the balls or are crazy enough to run around an airliner yelling "Ive got a bomb!", You should have the balls or be crazy enough to take a bullet.

[FORD]

Marshals entered the plane and ordered everyone to put their hands on their heads, while they searched it, Gardner said.

Excuse me?? So they have the alleged suspect on the jetway, and they treat the rest of the plane like criminals??

This fucking stinks to high heaven.

[Warham]

Oh, FORD, please.

Have you ever heard of the word 'accomplice'?

[FORD]

Ok, this story makes it official.... This was a MASSIVE FUCKUP, and further evidence of what a FASCIST POLICE STATE this country is turning into.........

Thursday, Dec. 08, 2005
Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb
By SIOBHAN MORRISSEY/MIAMI

At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."

McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."

link (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1138965,00.html)


So, not only did they shoot a man with a mental condition, and most probably LIE about his claiming to have a bomb, but they treated a plane full of US citizens like CRIMINALS and prevented them from speaking to their families???

This just crossed over into BCE FACIST BULLSHIT territory, kids. :mad:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
Oh, FORD, please.

Have you ever heard of the word 'accomplice'?

To have an "accomplice" you need a crime. The only crime apparently committed here was the senseless murder of a man with screwed up brain chemistry. And the terrorizing of other American citizens by those who are supposed to protect them.

[Warham]

Here comes the spin control.

You can stop any time.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
Here comes the spin control.

You can stop any time.

Read that TIME article very carefully, especially the bolded part and tell me if you honestly you agree with what they did on that plane.

[Guitar Shark]

FORD, did you know that the guy who died was a BCE operative?

Why would the BCE kill one of its own?

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
Read that TIME article very carefully, especially the bolded part and tell me if you honestly you agree with what they did on that plane.

Yep, and I'd tell them to shoot his ass again.

FORD, why don't you run down to your local mall and try to pull that stunt, and we'll see how long you stay alive. Run around and claim you have a bomb in your backpack and see if the police think of you as a poor individual.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
FORD, did you know that the guy who died was a BCE operative?

Why would the BCE kill one of its own?

Ask Bill Casey, Bill Colby, Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, or Salem Bin Laden (among others)

[ODShowtime]

they got to do what they got to do these days

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Warham
Yep, and I'd tell them to shoot his ass again.


Agreed.

Where were the quote from the people on the news that said they heard the word bomb? And then he reached into the same bag he claimed was holding it.

Shoot to kill.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham


FORD, why don't you run down to your local mall and try to pull that stunt,
.

Already happened.

See: Tacoma Mall Shooting


That being said, more is going to come out, you watch.

This isn't passing the sniff test. Yet.

Why the need for the Feds to play the "Richard Reid" card?

Let's just wait for the FACTS to come out first.:cool:

[NATEDOG001976]

Shoot first, ask questions later...lol

[Warham]

The facts have come out.

What other items of information do you need?

[NATEDOG001976]

Good. Tell France to send in all their troops too, those bastards owe us twice. Just saying the word "Nazi" makes the French run to this day!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by NATEDOG001976
Good. Tell France to send in all their troops too, those bastards owe us twice. Just saying the word "Nazi" makes the French run to this day!

Maybe you can post something that is actually on-topic or somehow remotely related?

[DrMaddVibe]

http://www.eventsounds.com/wav/moron.wav

[FORD]

I see we have another moronic troll here..... :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

I warned Nate Do GOO not try attempt to enter The FRONTLINE with that shit, but here he goes anyway....

He'a another Wayne/Lou/4moreQueers

Anyone to the left Richard Perle is a "ultra-liberal"

At least he took my advice and ditched the gay Def Leppard Sig...

Ignore the troll, he'll eventually find his own kind here at the Army....

Speaking of which.....where is JizzySTOOL these days...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
The facts have come out.

What other items of information do you need?

I would like to hear more from the eyewitnesses who said he never said anything about a BOMB

:cool:

[ELVIS]

What about the one's who did ??

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What about the one's who did ??

I'd like to hear all accounts, E.

I know that rubs against your "One True Way" line of thinking, but there can be more than one side to it. ;)

[scamper]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I would like to hear more from the eyewitnesses who said he never said anything about a BOMB

:cool:

The minority outweighs the majority?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by scamper
The minority outweighs the majority?

What a ridiculous question.

What do numbers have to do with anything?

And besides, if you want to talk about numbers, then Chimpy and his gang should all march to The Capitol steps and resign now. :rolleyes:


It's not a question of minority vs. majority :rolleyes:

It's about getting all witnesses accounts of what happened.

[Nickdfresh]

Passengers: Alpizar Didn't Say 'Bomb'
Friday, December 9, 2005 10:11 AM EST
The Associated Press
By CURT ANDERSON

MIAMI (AP (http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?ps=1018&id=12409583)) — The airline passenger shot to death by federal marshals who said he made a bomb threat was agitated even before boarding and later appeared to be desperate to get off the plane, some fellow travelers said.

One passenger said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all" during the uproar as the Orlando-bound flight prepared to leave Miami on Wednesday.

Federal officials say Rigoberto Alpizar made the threat in the jetway, after running up the plane's aisle from his seat at the back of the jetliner. They opened fire because the 44-year-old Home Depot employee ignored their orders to stop, reached into his backpack and said he had a bomb, according to authorities.

Alpizar's brother, speaking from Costa Rica, said he would never believe the shooting was necessary.

"I can't conceive that the marshals wouldn't be able to overpower an unarmed, single man, especially knowing he had already cleared every security check," Carlos Alpizar told The Orlando Sentinel.

Some passengers said they noticed Alpizar while waiting to get on the plane. They said he was singing "Go Down Moses" as his wife tried to calm him. Others said they saw him having lunch and described him as restless and anxious, but not dangerous.

"The wife was telling him, 'Calm down. Let other people get on the plane. It will be all right,'" said Alan Tirpak, a passenger.

Some passengers, including John McAlhany, said they believe Alpizar was no threat to anyone.

McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker who was returning home from a fishing trip in Key West, said he was sitting in Seat 21C when he noticed a commotion a few rows back.

"I heard him saying to his wife, 'I've got to get off the plane,'" McAlhany said. "He bumped me, bumped a couple of stewardesses. He just wanted to get off the plane."

Alpizar ran up the aisle into the first-class cabin, where marshals chased him onto the jetway, McAlhany said.

McAlhany said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all."

"The first time I heard the word 'bomb' was when I was interviewed by the FBI," McAlhany said. "They kept asking if I heard him say the B-word. And I said, 'What is the B-word?' And they were like, 'Bomb.' I said no. They said, 'Are you sure?' And I am."

Added another passenger, Mary Gardner: "I did not hear him say that he had a bomb."

Officials say there was no bomb and they found no connection to terrorism.

Witnesses said Alpizar's wife, Anne Buechner, had frantically tried to explain he was bipolar, a mental illness also known as manic-depression, and was off his medication.

The National Alliance on Mental Illness called on the Air Marshal Service and other law enforcement agencies to train officers if they don't already in responding to people with severe mental illness.

Others said Alpizar's mental health didn't matter while marshals were trying to talk to him and determine if the threat was real.

Shooting to maim or injure — rather than kill — is not an option for federal agents, said John Amat, national operations vice president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, which includes air marshals in its membership.

"The person was screaming, saying he would blow up the plane, reaching into his bag — they had to react," Amat said.

"The bottom line is, we're trained to shoot to stop the threat," said Amat, who is also a deputy with the U.S. Marshals Service in Miami. "Hollywood has this perception that we are such marksmen we can shoot an arm or leg with accuracy. We can't. These guys were in a very tense situation. In their minds they had to believe this person was an imminent threat to themselves or the people on the plane."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the two air marshals appeared to have acted properly when they shot to kill.

Both air marshals were hired in 2002 from other federal law enforcement agencies and were placed on administrative leave, said Brian Doyle, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Miami-Dade Police were investigating and the medical examiner's office was performing an autopsy on Alpizar, who was from Costa Rica but became a U.S. citizen years ago. He lived in Maitland, an Orlando suburb.

Neighbors said the couple had been returning to their home from a missionary trip to Ecuador. Buechner works for the Council on Quality and Leadership based in Towson, Md., a nonprofit organization focused on improving life for people with disabilities and mental illness, the organization said in a statement.

David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said he thinks the shooting may prove more "reassuring than disturbing" to the traveling public his organization represents. "This is a reminder they are there and are protecting the passengers and that it is a seriously deadly business," he said.

Armed police boarded the aircraft after the shooting, with some passengers in hysterics. McAlhany said he remembers having a shotgun pressed into his head by one officer, and hearing cries and screams from many passengers aboard the aircraft after the shooting in the jetway.

"This was wrong," McAlhany said. "This man should be with his family for Christmas. Now he's dead."

———

Associated Press writers Andrew Bridges, Mark Sherman and Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington; Mike Schneider and Travis Reed in Orlando; and Jessica Gresko and Tim Reynolds in Miami contributed to this story.

Hmmmmm...

[Guitar Shark]

This is getting crazy now. Enough second guessing already.

These guys had a split second decision to make. Imagine if the guy really did have a bomb and they delayed in acting?

[Warham]

Yeah, GS, the media would be blasting him for not acting fast enough. You know these guys are going after the marshals for one reason: it'll make Bush look bad for putting thousands of these 'shoot-first, think-later cowboys' on these passenger jets.

[FORD]

I just heard something on the radio that I haven't seen in print anywhere. Apparently the Alpizar's were devout Christians, and were returning to the US after completing missionary work in Ecuador.

Elvis, didn't you say something about your church doing missions in South America?

Still think this guy deserved to be killed?

Oh, by the way, I also heard this morning that a lot of these so called "air marshals" are former prison guards, many of them fired for discipline problems.

Now keep that in mind, those of you flying over the holidays.

Just another case of incompetent failures being hired by the biggest incompetent failures in history.

[diamondD]

I always keep in mind not to act crazy on a plane, no matter how bad I want off.

What he did in his life has nothing to do with this FORD. If he'd blown the plane up, you'd be bitching about their lack of response. As long as you can reach out and tie it to the BSCE, you've reached your goal.

These guys are doing a job you don't have the self control to do.

[Warham]

No, it's not an incompetent failure.You have plenty of time to second guess, FORD. These air marshals have two to three seconds tops. Many, many witnesses on board said the man said 'bomb'. Apparently the marshal did as well. When this guy runs up the aisle and then reaches in his bag, what the hell is a guy supposed to do? Wait to see what the guy pulls out? 130 people could have been killed if that guy really did have a bomb.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

[Nickdfresh]

I dunno' man, I have a problem with somebody being shot down because they were "acting erratically."

Yeah, it was a split second decision, but also, he was off the plane and running away...

I mean, these Air Marshals are already altering the story a bit...

There needs to be an investigation, I'll withhold judgement until then...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I dunno' man, I have a problem with somebody being shot down because they were "acting erratically."

Yeah, it was a split second decision, but also, he was off the plane and running away...

I mean, these Air Marshals are already altering the story a bit...

There needs to be an investigation, I'll withhold judgement until then...


Exactly :cool:

First, the differing accounts, then the Feds bringing up Richard Reid, now the AM altering their stories......

What's wrong with keeping an open mind? :rolleyes:

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
What's wrong with keeping an open mind? :rolleyes:

Absolutely nothing. But some of the minds in here are far from open.

[diamondD]

Exactly. There are people on here blaming Bush and the air marshalls. Until I hear there absolutely bad circumstances involved here, I'm gonna give the marshalls the benefit of the doubt. There's too much at stake in their jobs to second guess.

[Warham]

Liberals won't give them the benefit of the doubt. They think there's some conspiracy here.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Liberals won't give them the benefit of the doubt. They think there's some conspiracy here.

EYEWITNESSES = HE NEVER SAID BOMB

Associated Press
Update 14: Passengers: Alpizar Didn't Say 'Bomb'
12.09.2005, 10:11 AM


The airline passenger shot to death by federal marshals who said he made a bomb threat was agitated even before boarding and later appeared to be desperate to get off the plane, some fellow travelers said.

One passenger said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all" during the uproar as the Orlando-bound flight prepared to leave Miami on Wednesday.

Federal officials say Rigoberto Alpizar made the threat in the jetway, after running up the plane's aisle from his seat at the back of the jetliner. They opened fire because the 44-year-old Home Depot employee ignored their orders to stop, reached into his backpack and said he had a bomb, according to authorities.

Alpizar's brother, speaking from Costa Rica, said he would never believe the shooting was necessary.

"I can't conceive that the marshals wouldn't be able to overpower an unarmed, single man, especially knowing he had already cleared every security check," Carlos Alpizar told The Orlando Sentinel.

Some passengers said they noticed Alpizar while waiting to get on the plane. They said he was singing "Go Down Moses" as his wife tried to calm him. Others said they saw him having lunch and described him as restless and anxious, but not dangerous.

"The wife was telling him, 'Calm down. Let other people get on the plane. It will be all right,'" said Alan Tirpak, a passenger.

Some passengers, including John McAlhany, said they believe Alpizar was no threat to anyone.

McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker who was returning home from a fishing trip in Key West, said he was sitting in Seat 21C when he noticed a commotion a few rows back.

"I heard him saying to his wife, 'I've got to get off the plane,'" McAlhany said. "He bumped me, bumped a couple of stewardesses. He just wanted to get off the plane."

Alpizar ran up the aisle into the first-class cabin, where marshals chased him onto the jetway, McAlhany said.

McAlhany said he "absolutely never heard the word 'bomb' at all."

"The first time I heard the word 'bomb' was when I was interviewed by the FBI," McAlhany said. "They kept asking if I heard him say the B-word. And I said, 'What is the B-word?' And they were like, 'Bomb.' I said no. They said, 'Are you sure?' And I am."

Added another passenger, Mary Gardner: "I did not hear him say that he had a bomb."

Officials say there was no bomb and they found no connection to terrorism.

Witnesses said Alpizar's wife, Anne Buechner, had frantically tried to explain he was bipolar, a mental illness also known as manic-depression, and was off his medication.

The National Alliance on Mental Illness called on the Air Marshal Service and other law enforcement agencies to train officers if they don't already in responding to people with severe mental illness.

Others said Alpizar's mental health didn't matter while marshals were trying to talk to him and determine if the threat was real.

Shooting to maim or injure - rather than kill - is not an option for federal agents, said John Amat, national operations vice president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, which includes air marshals in its membership.

"The person was screaming, saying he would blow up the plane, reaching into his bag - they had to react," Amat said.

"The bottom line is, we're trained to shoot to stop the threat," said Amat, who is also a deputy with the U.S. Marshals Service in Miami. "Hollywood has this perception that we are such marksmen we can shoot an arm or leg with accuracy. We can't. These guys were in a very tense situation. In their minds they had to believe this person was an imminent threat to themselves or the people on the plane."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the two air marshals appeared to have acted properly when they shot to kill.

Both air marshals were hired in 2002 from other federal law enforcement agencies and were placed on administrative leave, said Brian Doyle, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.

Miami-Dade Police were investigating and the medical examiner's office was performing an autopsy on Alpizar, who was from Costa Rica but became a U.S. citizen years ago. He lived in Maitland, an Orlando suburb.

Neighbors said the couple had been returning to their home from a missionary trip to Ecuador. Buechner works for the Council on Quality and Leadership based in Towson, Md., a nonprofit organization focused on improving life for people with disabilities and mental illness, the organization said in a statement.

David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said he thinks the shooting may prove more "reassuring than disturbing" to the traveling public his organization represents. "This is a reminder they are there and are protecting the passengers and that it is a seriously deadly business," he said.

Armed police boarded the aircraft after the shooting, with some passengers in hysterics. McAlhany said he remembers having a shotgun pressed into his head by one officer, and hearing cries and screams from many passengers aboard the aircraft after the shooting in the jetway.

"This was wrong," McAlhany said. "This man should be with his family for Christmas. Now he's dead."

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine



"The first time I heard the word 'bomb' was when I was interviewed by the FBI," McAlhany said. "They kept asking if I heard him say the B-word. And I said, 'What is the B-word?' And they were like, 'Bomb.' I said no. They said, 'Are you sure?' And I am."

Added another passenger, Mary Gardner: "I did not hear him say that he had a bomb."

Officials say there was no bomb and they found no connection to terrorism.







THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Liberals won't give them the benefit of the doubt. They think there's some conspiracy here.

Using the blanket term "liberals" throws out the window any shred of credibility your argument may have had...



THIS IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS FOR GOD'S FUCKING SAKE

[FORD]

Originally posted by diamondD
Exactly. There are people on here blaming Bush and the air marshalls. Until I hear there absolutely bad circumstances involved here, I'm gonna give the marshalls the benefit of the doubt. There's too much at stake in their jobs to second guess.

I don't believe anybody involved Chimpy in this. At least not directly.

Though if it DOES turn out that "air marshals" are really a bunch of trigger happy failed prison guards, it certainly isn't going to reflect well on the Fraudministration for allowing such low standards for people serving in such a critical position as the only law enforcement officer aboard a potential explosive 35,000 ft in the air.

That's why EVERYTHING in this case needs to be examined very carefully. There is a HUGE question of national security involved here. You know, the REAL kind. Not the fictional bullshit they make up to drag Muslim chaplains off to concentration camps.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine




David Stempler, president of the Air Travelers Association, said he thinks the shooting may prove more "reassuring than disturbing" to the traveling public his organization represents. "This is a reminder they are there and are protecting the passengers and that it is a seriously deadly business," he said.




Reassuring?

Killing an unarmed man, who had already passed through security without triggering any alarms is protecting us?

:confused:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by FORD
I don't believe anybody involved Chimpy in this. At least not directly.


I honestly don't believe Chimpy is "directly involved" in anything


Aloof, disconnected, disengaged, sociopathic, yes.....:cool:

[DLR'sCock]

Wait for all of the facts to come forth on this one kiddies, and then we will see what is...