Muslim Cartoon Row

[Don Corleone]

I didn't see this posted, so apologies if this is a duplicate thread:


Taken for BBC News:

Protests are spreading across the Muslim world over the publication in Europe of cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

One of the cartoons shows the Prophet wearing a headdress shaped like a bomb. In another he says paradise is running short of virgins for suicide bombers. Islamic tradition bans depictions of the Prophet or Allah.


Here's another one from Sky


Mass Muslim protests have continued across the world in response to the publication of cartoons in some European newspapers caricaturing the Prophet Mohammed.

Britain's Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, criticised the papers for being "disrespectful" to Islam and praised UK newspapers for their restraint in not publishing the images.

He said freedom of speech did not mean an "open season" on religious taboos.

As he spoke, dozens of Muslims protested in central London.

There has been fierce debate as to whether the cartoons are an insult to Islam or an exercise in free speech.

One of the cartoons shows the Prophet Mohammed wearing what looks like a bomb as a head-dress, while another shows him saying paradise is running out of virgins.

They were defiantly reproduced by many newspapers in Europe including France, Italy and Spain, although not the UK.

In Indonesia, hundreds of people stormed the Danish embassy in Jakarta shouting "Allahu Akbar" - God is Greatest.

They smashed lamps with bamboo sticks and threw chairs to show their fury at the cartoons first published by a Danish daily newspaper.


Demonstrations in Jakarta In Gaza, gunmen held hostage and later released a German man.

Protests erupted in the Middle East after Friday prayers. "We will not accept less than severing the heads of those responsible," one preacher told worshippers at the al-Omari Mosque in the Gaza Strip.

Pakistan's parliament passed a resolution condemning the cartoons as "blasphemous and derogatory".

The editor of a Norwegian magazine which reprinted the Danish cartoons said he had received 25 death threats.

A Jordanian editor was sacked for reprinting them, despite saying his purpose had been only to show the extent of the Danish insult to Islam, while in Iraq Christians said they feared a new wave of attacks by Muslims.

Gunmen surrounded a French cultural centre in Gaza to demand an apology - Hamas gunmen carried out similar actions around the EU office on Thursday.

Muslims have also boycotted Danish goods such as Lurpak butter and there have been bomb threats against Danish facilities in Arab countries.

The BBC, along with ITV and Channel 4 News, ran images of the cartoons in its output, prompting demonstrations outside its London HQ.

Islamic tradition bars any depiction of Mohammed.

[jhale667]

It's called freedom of speech...Muslims (who are offended) should investigate the concept. ;)

[Hardrock69]

No they are too ignorant.

The Arab world is still living in the past.

They get irate over things that most adults would be able to deal with.

Their cultural attitude is that of a spoiled rotten 4-year-old who gets irate when someone tells them there is no such thing as Santa Clause.

Their treatment of women, and insistence on living under the iron-fisted rule of the usual power-mad dictator indicates that they have not moved much beyond the 6th -century if at all.....

[jhale667]

I'd agree with that assessment, I was just trying to be diplomatic...:D

[jhale667]

What annoys me is all the protesters are yelling about 'respect' --when there's so little of it visible in the perception of that community towards women and what have you---THEY need to respect the fact that in a free society you can draw a cartoon of ANYONE you damn well please (well, unless it's of an extremely annoying female co-worker, then it's 'harassment' they tell me...LOL)
:rolleyes:

[flatbroke]

It seems the Muslim Middle East can insist on one standard of behavior for itself and quite another for others. They ask nothing of their own people and everything of everyone else's. Much less are we to remember that Hamas terrorists occupied and desecrated the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem in a globally televised charade.

[Hardrock69]

Hey...why do they not give any respect to Jews?


They are seeing how it feels to have someone make fun of them.

The Jews have been persecuted since CENTURIES BEFORE Mohammed was even born!!!

The Jews aren't crying cause someone made fun of THEM...


Buncha Arab Muslim Crybaby motherfuckers...

:rolleyes:

[flatbroke]

Think of how much better the world would be if Islam inspired the sort of outrage against shooting, stabbing, burning, stoning, and blasting innocent people into bits that it does over silly cartoons, rumors of Qur'an "mishandlings," or a French headscarf ban.

Just dreaming I guess.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by flatbroke
Think of how much better the world would be if Islam inspired the sort of outrage against shooting, stabbing, burning, stoning, and blasting innocent people into bits that it does over silly cartoons, rumors of Qur'an "mishandlings," or a French headscarf ban.

Just dreaming I guess.

You dreamer, you! :p

[Nickdfresh]

I think a German paper wrote a rebuttal. They mentioned a SYRIAN TV movie that featured Rabbis as cannibals saying, "The Imams were silent" on that one...

And there seemed to be a lack of outrage over 9/11 in some parts of the Arab world (conscious understatement)...

Yes, they're irrational, superstitious hypocrites.

[Hardrock69]

That's what a lifetime smoking hash will do to ya....

:cool:
:D

[Don Corleone]

If they act like this from a simple, harmless cartoon strip, can you imagine what would happen if someone made a Muslim version of The Life of Brian?

[FORD]

Just to keep things in perspective here, let me throw out a few names....

Pat Robertson - Calls for political assassinations, and claims God struck down Ariel Sharon for pulling out of the Gaza strip. Convinced that God is a Republican and shares his hatred of gays and Liberals.

Jerry Falwell - Said that 9-11 was the fault of gays, liberals, and abortionists. Sold a collection of slanderous lies known as "The Clinton Chronicles" from his tax exempt ministry Endorsed the South African apartheid fascist government in the 80's and claimed that its leader was "a good Christian".

Donald Wildmon - He and his family are the ones that brought you the "outrage" over Janet Jackson's tit being flashed on the Super Bowl, and most recently harrassed the NBC network into cancelling a TV show that dared to portray Christianity in a way that didn't agree with his fucked up interpretation. It is because of Wildmon and assholes like him that TV and radio are more restrictive in recent years than they had been since the 1950's.

Fred Phelps - "God Hates Fags". "God Hates America". "God Hates Canada". "God Hates Sweden". "God Pretty Much Hates Everyone But Psychotic Cult Leaders From Bumfuck Kansas Who Picket Funerals With Dumbass Signs".


Seems that every religion has their share of psychos and hypocrites. And unfortunately, the ones in this country, as seen above, have far too much influence, as do the Muslim wackos over there.

[Don Corleone]

Kicking off and shouting things is one thing. Setting fire to buildings and actually trying to kill people (over a cartoon) is another

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4682388.stm

[Don Corleone]

Here's the Cartoon that they're pissed about

[franksters]

http://ahmed-mohammed.mindswap.net/post_a_link/index.php3?cat=GoodMuslim

I can't stand these people... sorry!

[franksters]

here is another exemple of their respect:

A recent example of Muslim wrath was the November 2004 slaying by a militant Muslim of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, whose documentary about violence against Muslim women contained depictions of Koranic verses on female bodies. In this latest controversy, it should be noted that Muslims would consider any caricature of Mohammed as blasphemous.

there should be all kinds of those cartoon!

[The_KiD]

Who cares what they fucking think. I cannot stand these people either. Are we supposed to feel sorry for them because of a cartoon? For such "Peaceful" people, they sure cause a lot of fucking headache... Fuck em..

KiD

[flatbroke]

If Muslims who choose to live in Denmark or another European country where this tradition is valued and understood do not like it, then they are perfectly free to leave (or be deported) for more devout and authoritarian shores.

Wild threats to kidnap, or behead European diplomats and the armed takeover of the European Union offices in Gaza, the burning Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus are foolish and self-defeating. The stereotypes are now valid.

Those EU offices have disbursed over $3 billions to the Palestinians, and are one of the few life-support systems that Palestine has.

[Nickdfresh]

I agree that Muslims are way overreacting to this shit. It's a caricature that appeared in a European newspaper, and really affects their life in no way whatsoever. Furthermore, it's being stoked on subtlety by certain gov'ts that seek an Orwellian distraction to their crap policies. There were a couple op-ed pieces in German newspapers that basically accuse some of the Islamic clerics of being blatant hypocrites that tolerate anti-Semitism, and often the grotesque lies and exaggerations about Christians, Hindus, and Jews, yet get their panties in a wad over the slightest perceived insult to their religion.

But a couple points to cuntsider. Christians have often gotten violent over perceived slights, such as the crucifix in a bottle of urine "work of art" and whatnot a few years ago. And what about the whole "War on Christmas©" sham...

And the cartoons are fundamentally dishonest in that Muhammad lived 1500 years ago, and he was no more a "terrorist" than any Christian leader at the time. In what little I know about him, he in fact was much more tolerant than the terrorist power mongers that use his name, and allowed Christians and Jews to practice freely if modestly, and you really can't say as much about the European countries at the time...

[franksters]

I guess times have changed, like I've said in the past where you have muslims you are most likely to have problems...

let's face it we have to stop buying gas from these people and you'll see how open minded they will become after afew years of forced ramhadan.

I mean all they want is to conquer and transform the whole planet to islam, well fuck you!

The worst thing is that they come here and then they fuckin complain about the fact that there is no place to pray in university and so on, if you're not happy go back to your fuckin country and leave this infidel land a.s.a.p.

France banned all signs of religion in public establishment and I wish we would have the balls to do it over here too.

Last time I was in toronto, there was this man at the airport with a bunch of ladies wearing burka, I told the security that it makes me nervous to be around these people and that these ''women could be man'' he answered me that he couldn't do anything about it...

I told him ''so I could cover my face in the airport.. he said no not you, you would be arrested right away!@#$

wtf is that?

this is my land and I have to see this shit, if we go there we conform to their rulz, but it's a different story when they come here...

When I see a cop with a turban on his head it always makes me laugh, we are such pussies to accept that, fuck the uniform doesn't include a turban, same goes when you work for ups the outfit is brown, you don't like it don't apply, why simple things are so complicated.

I am wondering when they will start making different kind of helmet for fireman or jet pilot so these retards can wear their turban at work.

[Matt White]

I know many Muslim people...and they are decent hard working people......

Stereotyping people is never a "good" thing..............

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
Here's the Cartoon that they're pissed about

personally i prefer daffy duck or a good road runner episode

[Mr Grimsdale]

The Muslims protesting are making a rod for their own back by having double standards.

So one of the cartoons shows Mohammed with a bomb shaped turban, fair enough it's a dig at their religion, but every religion has to put up with that.

So what do the protesters do? They torch a load of embassies in the Middle East and parade through the streets of London with banners reading:
UK you will pray
7/7 is coming your way

or howabout
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41295000/jpg/_41295952_protest203x300.jpg

then there were a load of banners and placards paraded through central london calling for all those who insult Islam to be beheaded. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't things like that just re-inforce the image portrayed in the cartoon?

Smart move chaps. Firstly this just re-inforces the cliche shown in the cartoon and secondly why the anger aimed at the UK? The papers in the UK haven't puplished the images. In fact, unlike some countries, the UKs foreign secretary has come out against the publishing of the cartoons.

I know where Matt White is coming from, I know a bunch of decent muslims that work hard and keep their heads down. They practice their religion and obey the laws of the country and try to fit in with the customs of the locality. Unfortunately, however there is a growing section of that community that thinks it doesn't have to obey the laws and fit in with the customs.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I agree that Muslims are way overreacting to this shit. It's a caricature that appeared in a European newspaper, and really affects their life in no way whatsoever. Furthermore, it's being stoked on subtlety by certain gov'ts that seek an Orwellian distraction to their crap policies. There were a couple op-ed pieces in German newspapers that basically accuse some of the Islamic clerics of being blatant hypocrites that tolerate anti-Semitism, and often the grotesque lies and exaggerations about Christians, Hindus, and Jews, yet get their panties in a wad over the slightest perceived insult to their religion.

But a couple points to cuntsider. Christians have often gotten violent over perceived slights, such as the crucifix in a bottle of urine "work of art" and whatnot a few years ago. And what about the whole "War on Christmas©" sham...

And the cartoons are fundamentally dishonest in that Muhammad lived 1500 years ago, and he was no more a "terrorist" than any Christian leader at the time. In what little I know about him, he in fact was much more tolerant than the terrorist power mongers that use his name, and allowed Christians and Jews to practice freely if modestly, and you really can't say as much about the European countries at the time...

Dude, please stop calling people who get violent "Christians" because if they are getting violent in the name of God they are NOT Christians by any means.
Don't insult true God fearing christians who live in peace and never react violently to any attack upon them as in accordance with the word of God.
The attack on Christmas exposed the phony christians because they got all defensive and violent over something secular, not biblical.

You have got to learn the difference, in fact a lot of you need to learn to distinguish the difference between the two.

Christians aren't your enemies, those who pretend to be while ignoring the scripture are...hence, they aren't christians.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
The Muslims protesting are making a rod for their own back by having double standards.

So one of the cartoons shows Mohammed with a bomb shaped turban, fair enough it's a dig at their religion, but every religion has to put up with that.

So what do the protesters do? They torch a load of embassies in the Middle East and parade through the streets of London with banners reading:
UK you will pray
7/7 is coming your way

or howabout
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41295000/jpg/_41295952_protest203x300.jpg

then there were a load of banners and placards paraded through central london calling for all those who insult Islam to be beheaded. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't things like that just re-inforce the image portrayed in the cartoon?

Smart move chaps. Firstly this just re-inforces the cliche shown in the cartoon and secondly why the anger aimed at the UK? The papers in the UK haven't puplished the images. In fact, unlike some countries, the UKs foreign secretary has come out against the publishing of the cartoons.

I know where Matt White is coming from, I know a bunch of decent muslims that work hard and keep their heads down. They practice their religion and obey the laws of the country and try to fit in with the customs of the locality. Unfortunately, however there is a growing section of that community that thinks it doesn't have to obey the laws and fit in with the customs.

But see, the fact that we aren't Muslim means we are against Islam, they don't believe we can all co-exist in the same world and they think they are the chosen one's to exterminate all who aren't of Islam.

This is why they ignore the laws and customs of our country, their goal is to change it, to Islamic rule and once they get a foot, they'll take a yard, then they'll dig holes in that yard and begin burying anyone who is not Muslim.

Sure, there are those who can live in harmony with us, but those are fewer than you think.
As i have said many times, we have a Muslim in the family by marriage of course, and he is a wealth of information on this subject.
he came here for a better life, one he did not have living in Morroco.
But he doesn't try to change the rules, he adapted to them and even said himself that if we give the Muslims a foothold they'll dig in and ultimately try to rid our country of, well, us.

I told him that it makes it hard to trust them when i see them in the streets, he says he understands that, and then adds that we shouldn't, especially the Iraqi's, which in the Middle East are considered the scum of their race.

I don't hate people for who they are, but i don't trust anyone who doesn't earn it first. and even then i've been stabbed in the back by people, to date none were Muslim i might add...it's a crap shoot but we can't be paranoid about it.

Just be careful and judge people by their actions, you'll know the extremist when you encounter them.

[franksters]

Believe me Matt, I know quite a few good muslims too, but unfortunatly like Cathedral and Grimsdale are pointing out is that there fundamental belief is that YOU are an infidel and that you wouldn't last 5 minutes under the CHARIA...

You have to agree with the basic principle of it.

I just think that what would apply to you in their country should apply to them in my country, that's it, that's all!

[franksters]

AFGHANISTAN:
Taliban fighting back, but continues losing ground as new government slowly extends control. But independent minded tribes, warlords and drug gangs still stand in the way of peace, prosperity and true national unity.

ALGERIA :
Islamic rebels fading away, but a general uprising looms because of dissatisfaction with the old revolutionaries that refuse to honor election results or share power.

BALKANS :

The Greater Albania Movement is driven by part time Albanian nationalists, full time gangsters and a growing number of Islamic radicals. Bosnia continues to attract Islamic terrorists.

CENTRAL ASIA :

Dictators brew rebellion by suppressing democrats and Islamic radicals.

INDIA-PAKISTAN:

Kashmir is but one of many rebellions that beset the region. But India and Pakistan have nukes, making escalation a potential catastrophe. Recent peace talks have lowered the possibility of war, but both sides continue an arms race.

INDONESIA

Separatism, pirates, Islamic terrorists and government corruption create a volatile situation that is slowly calming down.

IRAN

Minority of Islamic conservatives have veto power over the majority of reformers. The supply of peaceful solutions is drying up. After that comes another revolution. Meanwhile, the Islamic conservatives are determined to build nuclear weapons.

IRAQ

Sunni Arab minority makes peace with the majority Kurds and Shia Arabs. But Sunni Arab Islamic radicals still back terrorism attacks against government and Shia Arabs (who are considered heretics).

ISRAEL

Jewish and Palestinian radicals continue to confront peacemakers. The Palestinian people got tired of terrorism and are trying to work out a peace deal with Israel.

PHILIPPINES

Islamic minority in the south wants it's own country, and expulsion of non-Moslems. Communist rebels in the north fight for social justice and a dictatorship.

RUSSIA

Rebuilding and reforming the Soviet era armed forces and fighting gangsters and Islamic radicals in Chechnya.

THAILAND

Moslems in the south have a different religion than most Thais, and are different ethnically as well (they are Malays). Islamic radicalism has arrived, along with an armed effort to create a separate Islamic state among the few million people in the area.

WAR ON TERROR

International terrorism has created a international backlash and a war unlike any other.

[kentuckyklira]

Religion sucks and this is just more proof of that!

Anything but keeping your religion a private thing ought to be against the law!

[NATEDOG001976]

I really don't understand the big deal about this. Get over it, destroying stuf is not cool. I know some muslims and they are cool, but the majority give them a bad name for acting foolish like this!

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


But a couple points to cuntsider. Christians have often gotten violent over perceived slights, such as the crucifix in a bottle of urine "work of art" and whatnot a few years ago. And what about the whole "War on Christmas©" sham...


How many people died because of Piss Christ? How many buildings were burned?

Oh, that's right. None.

[Nickdfresh]

Funny, but I make one comment, very moderate, about some Christians get pissed over the defilement of religious iconography...

And two Christens (ALLY & CAT respectively) get pissed at me.

I neither compared scale, the results of their rage, nor the actual basis of their Christian beliefs made invalid by their actions contrary to Christ's teachings. Just that people get offended when their religion is mocked...

Relax people...

[Warham]

I don't call a cross in a bottle of piss 'art'. Or elephant shit on a picture of Mary.

I wonder if certain groups would get mad if you took a artistic rendering of Mohammed and smeared bodily fluids all over it.

[FORD]

I find the depiction of Jesus Christ as a Republican warmonger about the most offensive thing imaginable, but that doesn't stop the Falwell/Robertson/Chimp crowd from perpetuating that lie daily.

[Warham]

Jesus wasn't a liberal either.

Putting him in either political faction is wrong.

[jhale667]

And Warham, just because YOU don't find the "piss cross" or whatever to be artistic ( I don't necessarily, but that's not the point), does that mean it should be BANNED? Or should it be okay to have KILLED that Maplethorpe guy, just because you feel your religion is being mocked? Who gets to set the standard?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
Jesus wasn't a liberal either.

Putting him in either political faction is wrong.

If Jesus was walking the earth for about the last 50 years or so, do you think He would be marching with Martin Luther King, healing the sick and feeding the starving people in Africa, and building Habitat for Humanity homes with Jimmy Carter (He was a carpenter, after all)

Or

plotting wars for profit and fascism with the BCE and oppressing homosexuals with Falwell & Robertson?

Not much of a contest.

[Warham]

No Ford, I don't think Jesus would be supporting abortions on demand (up to the point the umbilical cord is severed) and letting child rapists out of jail after a 90 day sentence.

Jesus was never a carpenter (his father was). He was a rabbi.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Warham

Jesus was never a carpenter (his father was). He was a rabbi.


So what WAS he doing for those missing years between 12-30 or so, as far as biblical references go? Was he with a consulting firm or something? ;)

[Mr Grimsdale]

Does every damned thing have to end up focussed on Republicans versus Democrats or Liberals versus Conservatives? Believe it or not but the 5.5 billion people out there who aren't US citizens (and probably a fair proportion of those who are) don't actually give a damn about that stuff. It's not important. Get over it. Your left wing, right wing conspiracy theories are just that. Theories. It doesn't matter even if they are true. You're not going to change anything. Just get on with your lives and stop this inane, never ending arguing about stuff that is irrelevant to 90% of the worlds population.

So what if you're a commited Christian or Muslim or some other religion, you're all so far up your own arseholes you can't even begin to accept that your views might just be unimportant to another human being.

There's a whole world out there and you muppets spend your lives sniping at one another even though you're nominally on the same side.

[franksters]

Maybe he was just high!!!

[jhale667]

To me it's about one religion DEMANDING preferential treatment. That CANNOT be tolerated, regardless of what religion is making the demand. Being an artist, I don't want someone to even THINK of telling me I can't draw a cariciture of Jesus, or Mohammed, or whoever. not like I WOULD, mind you, but YOU don't have the right to tell me I CAN'T just because it offends YOU. I mean, in the grand scheme of things, who the fuck are YOU? Or ME? It IS still supposed to be a free society, yes?

[Warham]

Originally posted by jhale667
So what WAS he doing for those missing years between 12-30 or so, as far as biblical references go? Was he with a consulting firm or something? ;)

The Bible never reveals what he was up to during those 18 years. Alot of people assume he was helping his father out with the family business, while others believe he was traveling all over the world, including India.

[Warham]

Originally posted by jhale667
And Warham, just because YOU don't find the "piss cross" or whatever to be artistic ( I don't necessarily, but that's not the point), does that mean it should be BANNED? Or should it be okay to have KILLED that Maplethorpe guy, just because you feel your religion is being mocked? Who gets to set the standard?

No, I don't believe in banning artwork. I just don't think pissing in a bottle and putting a cross in it equates it to the Mona Lisa or the statue of David on the fine art scale. YMMV.

That's just the way I see it.

[FORD]

The likely reason that so little was included in the Bible of Jesus' life from 12-30 was because much of the material dealt with His family. Joseph is not mentioned in the years of Jesus' ministry (ages 30-33) so obviously, he died at some point during these years. The death of Joseph would have left Jesus as the man of the house and the heir to the carpentry business. The Catholic Church censored this part of the story because they wanted to perpetuate the myth that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Christ, and mentions of other children would be in conflict with that.

What most probably happenned was that Jesus worked as a carpenter and provided for His family until his younger brothers could take over the business. This still probably would have allowed Him some time to travel before turning 30 and beginning His ministry.

[Warham]

Mary was definately not a virgin the remainder of her life. The Gospel of Mark makes that perfectly clear.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Warham
No, I don't believe in banning artwork. I just don't think pissing in a bottle and putting a cross in it equates it to the Mona Lisa or the statue of David on the fine art scale. YMMV.

That's just the way I see it.

Of course not. But it's not for US to be the official art critics/approval board for the world. Let's play devil's advocate for a sec: I could say I DON'T think the Mona Lisa is 'art' because I'm 'offended' by 'fat' chicks ( ;) )...therefore I 'want' it removed, and if you disagree, it should be perfectly okay for me to 'kill' you, as you do not 'respect' my sensibilities or beliefs....that's the kind of f*ed up logic we're talking about......

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
No Ford, I don't think Jesus would be supporting abortions on demand (up to the point the umbilical cord is severed) and letting child rapists out of jail after a 90 day sentence.



I don't remember saying anything about abortion. But then, I'm not obsessed with it like you are.

[Warham]

The subject of the artwork and the actual artwork itself should be considered separately. You might be offended by fat chicks, but you have to look beyond what your offended by when appraising the Mona Lisa.

When you look at the Statue of David for instance, perhaps you're offended by seeing a nude male. But you can still be impressed by the craftsmanship shown in the statue.

I don't see any mastery (other than aiming) by pissing in a jar and throwing in a rosary.

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
I don't remember saying anything about abortion. But then, I'm not obsessed with it like you are.

No, FORD, but you know damn well that your party wants abortion on demand. It's a liberal cornerstone. The biggest reason liberals are against any conservative justice being on the Supreme Court is abortion. Period.

Since you don't seem to have a position on the issue, you wouldn't have a problem if the Supreme Court overturns Roe vs. Wade?

And that nutty liberal judge in the ceceded state of Vermont gave a child molester a 90 day prison sentence before O'Reilly and a bunch of conservative groups raised hell until he caved in and revised the sentence to 3-5 years.

Yeah, that sounds like things Jesus believes in.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
The subject of the artwork and the actual artwork itself should be considered separately. You might be offended by fat chicks, but you have to look beyond what your offended by when appraising the Mona Lisa.

When you look at the Statue of David for instance, perhaps you're offended by seeing a nude male. But you can still be impressed by the craftsmanship shown in the statue.

I don't see any mastery (other than aiming) by pissing in a jar and throwing in a rosary.


Then, by the same token, where's the artistic value in portraying the main prophet of a major religion with a bomb in his turban?

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
Then, by the same token, where's the artistic value in portraying the main prophet of a major religion with a bomb in his turban?

Who said I find artistic value in that?

[jhale667]

I think Jesus would be more concerned with the thousands of already existing starving/homeless/unwanted children than about abortion. I'd be willing to bet Jesus would actually be pro-contraception, rather than being for bringing MORE unwanted children into the world. I think religion has got that ALL wrong, moreso because of their own sexually repressed natures than any biblical teaching....

[jhale667]

...And I think Jesus would agree child molesters are SCUM....

[FORD]

Originally posted by jhale667
...And I think Jesus would agree child molesters are SCUM....

I believe He already covered that one. Something about "Any one of you who harms one of these little ones, it would be better that you have a millstone around your neck and be drowned at sea".

He's a little more lenient with them than I would be.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Warham
Who said I find artistic value in that?


Does 'satire' have to have artisitic value? Or does someone, somewhere just have to think it's funny?

[Warham]

Originally posted by jhale667
I think Jesus would be more concerned with the thousands of already existing starving/homeless/unwanted children than about abortion. I'd be willing to bet Jesus would actually be pro-contraception, rather than being for bringing MORE unwanted children into the world. I think religion has got that ALL wrong, moreso because of their own sexually repressed natures than any biblical teaching....

Amen brother. More contraception, more personal responsibility.

That's a conservative trait.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Warham
Amen brother. More contraception, more personal responsibility.

That's a conservative trait.


Wouldn't be the 1st time my 'liberal' status around here has been questioned....:D

[Golden AWe]

The danish government or the freedom of speech are not the ones to blame here.

The truth is the newspaper made the mistake for publishing a picture like this, although we've seen stuff like this in political cartoons like MAD for ages now. It's a matter of bad taste instead of freedom of speech.

And I don't care if they hurt the islam as religion, couldn't give a shite, but the truth is that they have endangered the lives of all the nordic citizens in the arab countries, AND once again they make the peaceful muslims all over the world look worse. PLUS 160 something workers of Arla, a milk product company, have immediately lost their jobs thanks to arab countries not buying their products anymore.

Once again, the innocent ones instead of the participating ones will suffer.

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
Does every damned thing have to end up focussed on Republicans versus Democrats or Liberals versus Conservatives? Believe it or not but the 5.5 billion people out there who aren't US citizens (and probably a fair proportion of those who are) don't actually give a damn about that stuff. It's not important. Get over it. Your left wing, right wing conspiracy theories are just that. Theories. It doesn't matter even if they are true. You're not going to change anything. Just get on with your lives and stop this inane, never ending arguing about stuff that is irrelevant to 90% of the worlds population.

So what if you're a commited Christian or Muslim or some other religion, you're all so far up your own arseholes you can't even begin to accept that your views might just be unimportant to another human being.

There's a whole world out there and you muppets spend your lives sniping at one another even though you're nominally on the same side.

Exactly exactly. For once it would be interesting to talk about subjects instead of political parties.

[jhale667]

I think the POINT is it DOESN'T hurt Islam. How insecure are you in your faith if you can't deal with a satirical CARTOON?!?!? And how messed up are you if you think VIOLENCE is justified by your anger over said cartoon?! Sure, it was in poor taste, 80% of what's out there IS to somebody...the Muslims are over-reacting in a major manner.

[Golden AWe]

Well, what I tried to say was they (the danish newspaper) shouldn't be worried about hurting Islam, they should have worried for hurting their own citizens.

[Angel]

What most of you probably don't realize is that there is actually an Islamic ban on depicting the Prophet. The outrage would have been the same whether he was shown carrying a bomb or a baby...

That doesn't excuse the reaction of many Muslims, and I'm all for freedom of the press, but I was raised to always show respect for the traditions and beliefs of others. It's too bad everyone else in the world wasn't raised the same way....

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Golden AWe
Well, what I tried to say was they shouldn't be worried about hurting Islam, they should have worried for hurting their own citizens.

That doesn't even seem to be entering into the thought process...they perceive a slight, and in their mindset it should be okay to go cause carnage because of the infraction...frickin' barbaric. I bet they want to cut the cartoonist's HAND off....:mad:

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Angel
It's too bad everyone else in the world wasn't raised the same way....

ESPECIALLY the muslims :)

[Angel]

I don't know, haven't you noticed how judgemental christians can be?

I know... let's ban ALL RELIGION!!!! :)

[Angel]

Originally posted by jhale667
That doesn't even seem to be entering into the thought process...they perceive a slight, and in their mindset it should be okay to go cause carnage because of the infraction...frickin' barbaric. I bet they want to cut the cartoonist's HAND off....:mad:

No, the punishment for depicting the Prophet is DEATH.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Angel
What most of you probably don't realize is that there is actually an Islamic ban on depicting the Prophet. The outrage would have been the same whether he was shown carrying a bomb or a baby...

That doesn't excuse the reaction of many Muslims, and I'm all for freedom of the press, but I was raised to always show respect for the traditions and beliefs of others. It's too bad everyone else in the world wasn't raised the same way....

I AM aware of it, and it's fucking stupid. And if that is their belief FINE, but does that mean I can't draw Mohammed? No! And they can't expect the rest of the world to bow to that idiotic premise. I'm sorry, but they need to get over themselves.

[Angel]

Did I excuse their reactions? NO.

I'm just stating that all religions need to "get over themselves". ;)

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Angel
I don't know, haven't you noticed how judgemental christians can be?

I know... let's ban ALL RELIGION!!!! :)

We bitch about it all the time in here. Several Christian zealots have already been mentioned in this thread.


How 'bout just banning histrionic, over-zealous public DISPLAYS of any and all religion? :D

[Golden AWe]

Originally posted by Angel
I don't know, haven't you noticed how judgemental christians can be?

I know... let's ban ALL RELIGION!!!! :)

That would be grate. Well, at least I've wanted the lutherian church separated from the State of Finland for ages now.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Angel
No, the punishment for depicting the Prophet is DEATH.


Well, again....that's just stupid. What do they tell their kids when they ask what he LOOKED like? "Don't even THINK ABOUT IT!!!!" :D

[Nitro Express]

What I don't get is Mohammed should be able to fight his own battles. If he is a true prophet and Allah's number one man, then aren't the people who mock him up shit creek? Life is short and then after they die, they have to deal with a pissed off Mohammed in the next life.

Us Christians are told to turn the other cheek and let Jesus handle it. The Muslims should let Mohammed handle it since mortal men are just pissants compared to these omnipotent dieties.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
What I don't get is Mohammed should be able to fight his own battles. If he is a true prophet and Allah's number one man, then aren't the people who mock him up shit creek? Life is short and then after they die, they have to deal with a pissed off Mohammed in the next life.

Us Christians are told to turn the other cheek and let Jesus handle it. The Muslims should let Mohammed handle it since mortal men are just pissants compared to these omnipotent dieties.

Islam apparently never got the 'turn the other cheek' memo.....;)and to be fair, even Christians were on the 'eye for an eye' tip until the New Testament...

Hey, that's what they need...the Koran, version 2! :D

[Nitro Express]

There were no Christians until the New Testiment. Before that they were Jews and the Law of Moses was much like Islam.

I lived in Israel for a year and I decided why the Muslims and Jews hate each other so much is they are exactly the same. LOL!

[Nitro Express]

Everybody wants to tell you they come from the seed of Abraham. The Jews brag they come from Sahra and the Muslims brag they come from Hagar.

The Jews point out that Hagar was a concubine and not a wife. Basically the Muslims come from the maid that got screwed.

I just look at it this way, I don't like anything that comes from anyone named Hagar. LOL! Sammy Hagar especially.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
There were no Christians until the New Testiment. Before that they were Jews and the Law of Moses was much like Islam.




I knew I should have put 'Christians' in quotes....:rolleyes:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by kentuckyklira
Religion sucks and this is just more proof of that!

Anything but keeping your religion a private thing ought to be against the law!

Why, because it offends you?

You're no better than the Muslims this thread is about with that statement.
I got news for you, Sourkraut, what is going on there is NOT religion, it's fanatiscism at it's strongest.
It's not about their faith, it's about having an excuse to sow the seed of violence and destruction.

If you were an american you wouldn't be so quick to throw away a constitutional right, but being as you are what you are i am not at all surprised.

You need help and a U-Haul...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
No, FORD, but you know damn well that your party wants abortion on demand. It's a liberal cornerstone. The biggest reason liberals are against any conservative justice being on the Supreme Court is abortion. Period.

Since you don't seem to have a position on the issue, you wouldn't have a problem if the Supreme Court overturns Roe vs. Wade?

And that nutty liberal judge in the ceceded state of Vermont gave a child molester a 90 day prison sentence before O'Reilly and a bunch of conservative groups raised hell until he caved in and revised the sentence to 3-5 years.

Yeah, that sounds like things Jesus believes in.

So ONE idiot judge in Vermont represents ALL "Liberals" now? WTF, I guess Jack ABRAMOFF means all "Conservatives" are money whores that would lie and cheat for a buck.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
So ONE idiot judge in Vermont represents ALL "Liberals" now? WTF, I guess Jack ABRAMOFF means all "Conservatives" are money whores that would lie and cheat for a buck.

Na, the mindset of giving short prison sentences to harden criminals happens all over the country. I was giving one example. Corruption in Congress has happened on both sides of the aisle, this being the latest and greatest 'scandal'.

It's an extreme liberal belief that you can somehow 'reform' criminals, including those who commit multiple murders/rape; instead of giving them hard time in prison, release them early and send them to a shrink. Besides $40,000 a year to lock them up is too much money for the taxpayers to pay even though the guy/gal will most likely run right out and do the dirty deed again.

[FORD]

Guess I'm not an "extreme liberal" then. :(

[Golden AWe]

Hahaha...priceless...

The finnish muslims were also protesting in front of the danish embassy in Helsinki yesterday but less than 200 showed up thanks to the cold weather...ahahahaha...well, it wasn't that bad, only -20 C.

[Don Corleone]

Here's a guy from the UK protests over the weekend (some of you may have seen this)

[Don Corleone]

The guy in the centre (Omar Khayam) choose to dress as a Suicide Bomber for a protest in London........

Freedom of speach in one thing, this is just down right sick

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Guess I'm not an "extreme liberal" then. :(

Not by any means, bro.
There is a guy who lives down the street from me that makes you look like a Conservative Mr. Rogers.
He's like a dog that chases cars, only what triggers him is Republican bumper stickers, lol.
I've gotten into a few shouting matches with him so far and he never steps one foot over his property line...and i just antagonize the crap out of him in hopes that someday he will.

I've seen his type post here but never actually met anyone in person that truly hates people based on their politics, and this guy sincerely does.

You're what we here in the Buckeye State call "Lib-Light", all the calories and just half the taste, lol.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Not by any means, bro.
There is a guy who lives down the street from me that makes you look like a Conservative Mr. Rogers.

Wouldn't that be Senator Lindsey Graham?

http://www.acec.org/publications/lastword/images/graham0207.jpg



He's like a dog that chases cars, only what triggers him is Republican bumper stickers, lol.
I've gotten into a few shouting matches with him so far and he never steps one foot over his property line...and i just antagonize the crap out of him in hopes that someday he will.

I've seen his type post here but never actually met anyone in person that truly hates people based on their politics, and this guy sincerely does.

I usually just laugh at the right wing bumper stickers....because 9 times out of 10 they'll be on some piece of shit car :D

You're what we here in the Buckeye State call "Lib-Light", all the calories and just half the taste, lol.

Hey, don't make me sound like one of those sell out DLC'ers!

Of course I'm not the one who assigned the "Liberal" label to myself in the first place.:cool:

[Cathedral]

Man, I'd swear Lindsey Graham was a childhood friend of mine...this kid could be his twin, or if his name was ever Mike Sepella, then it's him, lol.

I've lived 40 years and managed never to ever put a bumper sticker on a car, lol.
It's even dumber these days, what with painted bumpers -n- all.

And i would never consider you a DLC sellout, but a horse of a different color? Yeah, i'd go there.

I gotta say though, in my area most republicans are somewhat wealthy but, still dumb enough to put a sticker on a painted bumper. :)

[Nitro Express]

Every religion comes under attack and is made fun of. We have lots of Mormons around here. I would pretty much leave them alone but they are agressive with their missionary efforts and if they push the issue with me, then I rip them a new one. My mom came from a Mormon family so I know a lot about their religion. I like to remind them the Mormons staged the biggest religiouse massacre in the United States until Sept. 11. Look up the Mountain Meadows Massacre for some interesting reading.

The Mormons like to cry that they were persecuted and they were. But the way they acted brought it upon them. To me their religion is nothing more than a cult set up by a very clever con artist. A con artist who died in a gun fight in jail.

We will always fight over religion because religion is a big factor in what makes people who they are. Religion determines peoples cultural and value systems. Not to mention large blocks of a certain religion tend to vote a certain way. That is why Utah is very different than New York for instance.

Half the worlds Jews live in the United States. The other half live in Israel with a few remaining in other countries. That is why the US will always back Israel. There is no oil in Israel. The only thing that makes it worth fighting over is peoples religiouse views.

Many Muslims want to empower themselves by unifying the Muslim world against the US and Israel. It bothers them that there are only 13 million Jews and over a billion Muslims but they can't get rid of Israel. They realize they must turn the people in the US against the jews. How is this done? Get the US into a middle east war and have lots of US casualties. The casualties will start to turn the average non-Jew American against Israel since backing Israel has cost too many lives.

Europe is in an interesting dilema right now. They need the middle east oil and aren't controlled by the Jews like the US is. One would think Europe would side with the muslims since the EC is against Bush's middle east war. But the Muslims have started trouble in France, set off bombs in Spain, and are now pissed off at the Denmark press. Europe is aging and they haven't reproduced themselves enough. To fill in the void, Muslims from the middle east and Africa have moved in. They have brought their religiouse values with them that are in tottal conflict with Europe that has turned away from old religiouse values. Church attendance is at an all time low in Europe.

What's interesting is the EC still hates the US for going to war in the middle east while more islamic terrorism happens in Europe. Both the EC and the US are targets of the radicle Islamic groups.

Funny, the Europeans smuggly said the Americans made enemies around the world with our foreign policy. Now the Muslims are pissed at Europe. Why? They hate the freedom of the European press.

Muslims are easy to make your enemy and hard to make your friend. The reason is simple. A true muslim wants a theocracy and not a democracy. There is only one truth, their truth.

It's one big culture clash. You would think Europe, Canada, and the US would be together on the increasing problem of radicle Islam and it's huge terrorist networks. Instead, we seem to hate each other at well.

All I know is the world looks like it's going to be a bunch of fighting motherfuckers soon.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Na, the mindset of giving short prison sentences to harden criminals happens all over the country. I was giving one example. Corruption in Congress has happened on both sides of the aisle, this being the latest and greatest 'scandal'.

It's an extreme liberal belief that you can somehow 'reform' criminals, including those who commit multiple murders/rape; instead of giving them hard time in prison, release them early and send them to a shrink. Besides $40,000 a year to lock them up is too much money for the taxpayers to pay even though the guy/gal will most likely run right out and do the dirty deed again.

No. Actually Prisons are way overcrowded with druggies, so it's difficult to warehouse violent offenders....

And that's just as much of a Republican issue.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No. Actually Prisons are way overcrowded with druggies, so it's difficult to warehouse violent offenders....

And that's just as much of a Republican issue.

Build more prisons.

It's a Republican issue because Republicans don't want them out on the street. That's why they are overcrowded.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

It's real simple!!! Actions speak louder than words. Muslims carry a clear message, you are with us or you are against us. Their actions over a cartoon clearly demonstrate that violence takes precedence over peace. America and the rest of the world better wise up quick. I don't see many modern day christians willing to die for their faith. Muslims are fanatical, which makes them very dangerous. How can you defend yourself against someone who will attach a bomb to his or her back.
You can freely walk into a Catholic. Baptist or Methodist church and pray. Try walking into a Mosque, you will be greeted by a 300 pound monster man and escorted out by your Buster Browns. It just staggers the imagination how the U.S. and European countries are so tolerant of this fanatical faith, yet if given the power they would destroy us in one fell swoop. Now I am in know way defending Christianity. History has proven time and again that organized religion has caused some major wars throughout the centuries. But in this day and age Christianity is light fare compared to fanatical Muslims.

[Nickdfresh]

Funny, but a lot of "fanatical Muslims" in IRAQ seem to get really upset when their children are killed by terrorists, or US bombs... It's almost like they have human emotions or something....

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Nick, I understand your point and I am not a supporter of the war. I am a registered Republican, but I have a real problem with the current neo con powered Administration. Any loss of human life is tragic. Unfortunatley we are in a world where the leaders of all countries are bent on acquiring power and controlling the world. History has proven time and again that this is a fools errand. The Absurdity Of Life continues.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
If Jesus was walking the earth for about the last 50 years or so, do you think He would be marching with Martin Luther King, healing the sick and feeding the starving people in Africa, and building Habitat for Humanity homes with Jimmy Carter (He was a carpenter, after all)

Or

plotting wars for profit and fascism with the BCE and oppressing homosexuals with Falwell & Robertson?

Not much of a contest.

You surely don't know the nature of Jesus Christ if you think he would be marching FOR abortion, approving of homosexuals, or some of the other liberal crap you believe in.

:)

[flatbroke]

The Muslim world's explosive reaction demonstrates once again the failure of Islam in the modern age — its adherents are prepared to expend seemingly infinite energy in defense of religious beliefs not many of them are prepared to practice. Now, Iran is sponsoring a cartoon contest about the Holocaust.

Rectifying the hypocrisy that riddles Islam's efforts to be portrayed in a better light is the fundamental issue at stake for Muslims, not the freedom of the press. Muslims lived up to the stereotype in those cartoons.

[jhale667]

Any religion/mindset that calls for violence in response to even the slightest perceived insult is a complete and utter failure.

[flatbroke]

Any religion/mindset that calls for violence in response to even the slightest perceived insult is a complete and utter failure

That, plus if these characters get their way, listening to CVH would be banned.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by flatbroke
That, plus if these characters get their way, listening to CVH would be banned.

...And all women would be wearing burkas. No thanks.

[Cathedral]

Um, so am i to assume that everyone thinks it's ok for any media source to be insensitive to the cultures of others?

They are not completely without guilt here as they were the one's who pulled the trigger in the first place.

No, the violence isn't justified, but it should have been expected.

Remember when many muslims went playing on the beach building sand monuments celebrating the attack on 9-11?

Maybe we should have taken to the streets and burned down every Mosgue we could get our hands on.

And also, Nick, what in the hell does this have to do with Iraq?
I mean really.....try thinking about this for just a minute buddy.
We have been in Iraq for 3 years and nothing like this viloent uprising has come to pass, but a cartoon sparks a retaliation that has muslims calling for the heads of cartoonists?

There is a huge flaw in that reasoning, bro, and you need to quit trying to justify everything with whats going on in Iraq.
They are two completely different issues in the first place.

Nice try though... ;)

[jhale667]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Um, so am i to assume that everyone thinks it's ok for any media source to be insensitive to the cultures of others?



No. But any culture that has a rule against artistic depictions of their deity or prophets, satirical or otherwise, deserves ridicule. Sorry. ;)

[jhale667]

OK, let me try to be a tad bit more diplomatic ;). I believe they should be prepared to have a theological debate on that premise, if you will, rather than go on homicidal rampages thus embodying the stereotypical fanatic view of their culture.

How's that? :rolleyes:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by jhale667
No. But any culture that has a rule against artistic depictions of their deity or prophets, satirical or otherwise, deserves ridicule. Sorry. ;)

Ahhh, you missed my point...
I think the whole rebellion is stupid, so i agree with you.

But the artists are not without some blame and we have to keep in mind that they aren't part of our culture so the social rules are indeed different.
maybe i should say that it wasn't so much a "wrong" thing to do as much as it was an "insensitive" thing to do depicting someone's religious symbol in any fashion.

There were protests by American Muslim's here in the states, but they weren't violent like they were in the middle east because our laws would not have tolerated that for a second.

Ok, my entire point is that it was uncalled for to begin with.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by jhale667
OK, let me try to be a tad bit more diplomatic ;). I believe they should be prepared to have a theological debate on that premise, if you will, rather than go on homicidal rampages thus embodying the stereotypical fanatic view of their culture.

How's that? :rolleyes:

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you'll NEVER change a Muslim's mind about this.

Ever been to the Middle East? It's an entirely different world over there. Religion isn't something you wear on your sleeve or what you do for an hour a day one day a week...it's who you are.

Telling the Muslim World to "get over it" is taking a highly simplistic approach to the problem.

Before you suggest it, no, I don't suggest we back down or apologize either.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you'll NEVER change a Muslim's mind about this.

Ever been to the Middle East? It's an entirely different world over there. Religion isn't something you wear on your sleeve or what you do for an hour a day one day a week...it's who you are.

Telling the Muslim World to "get over it" is taking a highly simplistic approach to the problem.

Before you suggest it, no, I don't suggest we back down or apologize either.

Sometimes the most simplistic approach is the most effective :rolleyes: . And no, I've never been there, and I only know a very few Muslims, and not all that personally. But being that hypersensitive and overly serious about any religion is just wacky.

I agree there should be no apology or concession. The line NEEDS to be drawn in the sand, if you will...Normal citizens of the free world on this side, fanatical nutjobs on the other. ;)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
...
And also, Nick, what in the hell does this have to do with Iraq?
I mean really.....try thinking about this for just a minute buddy.
We have been in Iraq for 3 years and nothing like this viloent uprising has come to pass, but a cartoon sparks a retaliation that has muslims calling for the heads of cartoonists?

There is a huge flaw in that reasoning, bro, and you need to quit trying to justify everything with whats going on in Iraq.
They are two completely different issues in the first place.

Nice try though... ;)

I wasn't talking to you CAT...

I was merely answering the typical "all Muslims are fanatical suicide bombers" crap (the same stuff I've been hearing since I've been in high school during the Iran-Iraq War BTW) by the post just above mine...


Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
...I don't see many modern day christians willing to die for their faith. Muslims are fanatical, which makes them very dangerous. How can you defend yourself against someone who will attach a bomb to his or her back...

I'll try to 'censure' my Iraq comments from now on so I don't offend you...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you'll NEVER change a Muslim's mind about this.

Ever been to the Middle East? It's an entirely different world over there. Religion isn't something you wear on your sleeve or what you do for an hour a day one day a week...it's who you are.

Telling the Muslim World to "get over it" is taking a highly simplistic approach to the problem.

Before you suggest it, no, I don't suggest we back down or apologize either.

This issue is also being manipulated by the dictatorships and imams (many of which are our friends) as a means to distract the population from legitimate problems (something I wrote in my first post --yet I'm Mr. Anti-Christian in this thread apparently:rolleyes: )

I wish everybody could have hear the discussion on NPR, especially by a young female British-Muslim that has written an article on this, it was quite interesting...

[Nickdfresh]

Here's some Muslim views you're not seeing in the media (because they're not burning shit down).

What would Prophet Mohammed have done?
Tarek Fatah

Keep to forgiveness (O Mohammed),
and enjoin kindness,
and turn away from the ignorant.
- The Quran, Chapter 7, Verse 199

During his lifetime, Prophet Mohammed endured insults and ridicule on a daily basis. His opponents mocked his message and used physical violence to stop him from challenging the status quo.

At no stage during this ordeal did the Prophet lose his temper or react to these provocations. Tradition has it that he would, instead, offer a prayer of forgiveness to those who showed contempt for him.

Today, however, many followers of Prophet Mohammed are acting the exact opposite. Reacting to the provocative Danish cartoons about the Prophet, they are burning newspapers, threatening journalists, issuing bomb threats, yet claiming they are standing up for the Prophet himself.

I have seen the cartoons published by the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten. There is no question they are meant to hurt the feelings of Muslims. As I saw them, I had to restrain my anger. Once more, Muslims were being depicted as a violent people. (One particularly derisive cartoon showed the Prophet wearing a turban with a bomb inside it.)

No one in the Muslim community is willing to buy into the notion that these cartoons were not meant to promote racism against Muslims. The editors may say otherwise, but the community knows better when it is depicted as the "other," to be scorned and sidelined.

Caricaturing racial minorities has been a tradition in Europe and North America since long before it became acceptable to deride Muslims. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, it wasn't uncommon to see Jews and blacks depicted negatively. Today, thanks to the great work of many civil rights and anti-racism activists, no newspaper would invoke press freedom to depict Jews and blacks or their leaders the way the Danish paper depicted the Prophet.

Having said that, the way some Muslims have reacted to the provocation leaves a lot to be desired. Provoked, they walked blindfolded into a trap set for them, and came out worse than what they started with.

In Canada, we had a similar case, if not of the same magnitude. In the mid-90s, a Toronto man distributed highly inflammatory literature against Islam and the Prophet. Unlike our European colleagues and some fanatics of the Middle East, Canadian Muslims took up the case with the police and the gentleman was charged under Ontario hate laws and convicted. End of story.

In the Danish case, the Arab world's reaction, led by the Egyptian government, suggests there is more to it than meets the eye. Thousands in the Arab world have protested against the publication of the cartoons. The Danish paper has received bomb threats. Two armed groups threatened yesterday to target Frenchmen and Norwegians in the Palestinian territories, as well as Danes, after the caricatures were published in their countries.

Many believe that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's government is acting not for the love for Islam, but for love of the power it has usurped for decades.

Egyptian-American journalist Mona Eltahawy, a regular columnist for the London newspaper Sharq AlAwsat, wrote in the Egyptian newspaper Al-Dastour: "Perhaps the Muslim governments who spearheaded the campaign -- led by Egypt -- felt this was an easy way to burnish their Islamic credentials at a time when domestic Islamists are stronger than they have been in many years."

For the Arab League to demand that the Danish government shut down the newspaper Jyllands-Posten shows how deeply entrenched dictatorial practices are in many Muslim countries. They are so accustomed to closing down their own newspapers, they could not understand why the Danish government could not issue a decree closing the Jyllands-Posten.

This posturing by Arab governments and Islamist movements is not in the tradition of Islam. These zealots should ask the question: What would Prophet Mohammed have done when faced with this insult?

He would, I suggest, have said a prayer for the cartoonist and "turned away from the ignorant," as Allah commanded him to do in the Koran.

Tarek Fatah is a columnist for the Globe and Mail. (http://www.thedailystar.net/2006/02/08/d602081502103.htm)



Mona Eltahawy: Boycott? Why? Cartoons are the least of our problems


01:25 PM CST on Sunday, February 5, 2006

Can we Muslims finally admit that our fellow Muslims have blown out of all proportion their outrage over 12 cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad published in a Danish newspaper last September?

In the latest twist, both the Organization for the Islamic Conference and the Gulf Cooperation Council condemned a Norwegian newspaper for reprinting the drawings – a decision the publication defended as protecting freedom of expression. The initial printing of the cartoons in Denmark led to death threats against the artists, demonstrations in Kashmir and condemnation from 11 countries.

What did any of this achieve but prove the original point of the newspaper's culture editor, that artists in Europe were censoring themselves because they feared Muslim reaction? He commissioned the cartoons after hearing that Danish artists were too scared to illustrate a children's book about the prophet.

While one cartoon was particularly offensive because it showed the prophet wearing a turban with a bomb attached to it, a great deal of the anger had to do with the mere depiction of the prophet. Muslims seem to forget that just because they are prohibited from representing the prophet in any way, this does not apply to everybody else.

Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen was right not to intervene, insisting the government has no say over media – the argument used by Arab leaders when they are asked about anti-Semitism in their media, by the way. What should have remained a local issue turned into a diplomatic uproar that Muslims otherwise rarely provoke when fighting for their rights around the world. Perhaps the Muslim governments that spearheaded the campaign – led by Egypt – felt this was an easy way to burnish their Islamic credentials at a time when domestic Islamists are stronger than they have been in many years.

Must we really boycott Danish products? Of all the issues that plague the Muslim world today, are our priorities cartoons published in a newspaper in a country inhabited by less than 6 million people?

In the midst of the hysteria over the cartoons, here are a few facts we should remember. However offensive any of the 12 cartoons were, they did not incite violence against Muslims. Besides, the cartoon incident belongs at the very center of the kind of debate that Muslims must have in the European countries where they live – particularly after the Madrid train bombings of 2003 and the London subway bombings of 2005. While right-wing anti-immigration groups whip up Islamophobia in Denmark, Muslim communities wallow in denial over the increasing role of their own extremists.

For example, in August, Fadi Abdullatif, the spokesman for the Danish branch of the militant Hizb-ut-Tahrir, was charged with calling for the killing of members of the Danish government. Not only does Hizb-ut-Tahrir, which is banned in many Muslim countries, have a branch in Denmark, but Mr. Abdullatif has a history of calling for violence that he then justifies by referring to freedom of speech – the very notion the Danish newspaper made use of to publish the cartoons.

In October 2002, Mr. Abdullatif was convicted of using the Quran to justify incitement to violence against Jews. And we still wonder why people associate Islam with violence?

Muslims must honestly examine why there is such a huge gap between the way we imagine Islam and our prophet, and the way both are seen by others. Our offended sensibilities must not be limited to the Danish newspaper or the cartoonist, but to those like Fadi Abdullatif, whose actions should be regarded as just as offensive to Islam and to our reverence for the prophet. Otherwise, we are all responsible for those Danish cartoons.

Mona Eltahawy is an Egyptian commentator based in New York. This article is based on a column initially published in English in Lebanon's The Daily Star and in Arabic in Egypt's al-Dostour. Her Web site is www.monaeltahawy.com.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/points/stories/DN-mona_05edi.ART.State.Edition1.3ed14a8.html

[ULTRAMAN VH]

I never said all Muslims are suicide bombers, I should have been more specific. My bad. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how violent and dangerous certain factions of the Muslim community are. And I don't recall accusing you of being anti christian. At this point in my life, I am on the fence with organized religion. I may have came off as closed minded but I am not. Nick, I find it very disturbing that the Muslim community doe's not stand up and take action against these extremist's. Yes they condemn the behavior, but do not lift a finger to stop it. If I am wrong, please enlighten me on the matter. I would love to read your opinion.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
I never said all Muslims are suicide bombers, I should have been more specific. My bad. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how violent and dangerous certain factions of the Muslim community are. And I don't recall accusing you of being anti christian. At this point in my life, I am on the fence with organized religion. I may have came off as closed minded but I am not. Nick, I find it very disturbing that the Muslim community doe's not stand up and take action against these extremist's. Yes they condemn the behavior, but do not lift a finger to stop it. If I am wrong, please enlighten me on the matter. I would love to read your opinion.

My point is that, Muslim extremists are used by their gov'ts to distract them from real issues... But those extremists are relative few. The point is that they are by no means supermen-fanatics...


My "anti-Christian" comment was a general one directed to others. But it's like you have to be one extreme of the other on this board with some people. Sorry for the confusion.

[singerman]

The guy who was sooo offended by the 'cartoons' and dressed up as a suicide bomber as a protest in London is now in jail,turns out he was out on bail for drug dealing, as some people know, taking drugs is a major sin for a muslim, so maybe thats were the problem lies, muslims are trying to live in a tolerant and changing,modern western world under their own islamic beliefs and as we all know Islam is a religeon that cannot cope with tolerance or change , this breeds confusion hence he found it right to protest in the name of Islam against cartoons but on the other hand found it perfectly acceptable to deal drugs.Then he gets his face on every front page on all the newspapers in the U.K , and as far as he was concerned and us for that matter he was representing all U.K muslims,...wonder what good he's done for ethnic relations after that little stunt....stupid little shit

[singerman]

Not all muslims are international terrorists....but all international terrorists are muslim

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Osama Bin Ladens father had several wive's and fathered about 28 children. I don't think womanizing is high on the list of good Islamic behavior. Hypocrite chips anyone????

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I wasn't talking to you CAT...

I was merely answering the typical "all Muslims are fanatical suicide bombers" crap (the same stuff I've been hearing since I've been in high school during the Iran-Iraq War BTW) by the post just above mine...



I'll try to 'censure' my Iraq comments from now on so I don't offend you...

Naaaaaaa, no need to censure yourself, Nick. I happen to appreciate your honesty on such matters, though i sometimes miss your point at first.

There are lemons in every race, the muslims aren't special in that regard and people should know that.

The Oklahoma Bombings for instance....done by the hands of an American.

The scapegoat thing tends to bring comfort to people who don't want to acknowledge the truth that no race of people have a corner on the terror market.

[The_KiD]

There are currently approximately 1.4 billion Muslims... Fookin Frightening!

KiD

[FORD]

Originally posted by singerman
Not all muslims are international terrorists....but all international terrorists are muslim

Absolutely false, considering the ONLY international terrorist networks that exist are the CIA and Mossad.

[Cathedral]

And yes i said "Terror Market", because it is exactly that.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by singerman
Not all muslims are international terrorists....but all international terrorists are muslim

Only recently...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
Absolutely false, considering the ONLY international terrorist networks that exist are the CIA and Mossad. :rolleyes:

[singerman]

Originally posted by FORD
Absolutely false, considering the ONLY international terrorist networks that exist are the CIA and Mossad.

based on what evidence is the CIA an international terroist network and Bin Ladin's little gang isn't?

[FORD]

Originally posted by singerman
based on what evidence is the CIA an international terroist network and Bin Ladin's little gang isn't?

And who does Bin Laden work for?

[singerman]

And has Mossad comitted acts of terror against all religions across the spectrum?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
And who does Bin Laden work for?

"Did", the word is "did", not "does" it's past tense, lol.

We know we hired him many moons ago, that is not in debate. but to make the statement he still "does"....I need to see proof of that, got any?

[singerman]

Bin laden was a 'freedom fighter' when he worked for the CIA against the russians, he wasnt the international terrorist as he is known now

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
"Did", the word is "did", not "does" it's past tense, lol.

We know we hired him many moons ago, that is not in debate. but to make the statement he still "does"....I need to see proof of that, got any?

When did he resign from the CIA? Shouldn't there be a "Kiss my hairy Muslim ass, you infidels" letter in his file?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
And who does Bin Laden work for?

I guess he's currenly self-employed...

[FORD]

Originally posted by singerman
And has Mossad comitted acts of terror against all religions across the spectrum?

They created terror against their OWN religion when they created Hamas.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
When did he resign from the CIA? Shouldn't there be a "Kiss my hairy Muslim ass, you infidels" letter in his file?

I don't remember him ever being a text book "Employee" of the CIA.
But your point is well taken, i wouldn't mind knowing how and when the relationship came to an end.

Maybe these terror tapes are coming from some abandoned back lot at Warner studios....who knows, i don't trust anyone or anything anymore so everything is possible and just as suspect.

Just tell me where the sales are on ammo, that's all i care about at present.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
They created terror against their OWN religion when they created Hamas.

I'm not discounting that possibility, but do you have any scholarly articles on that one?

[singerman]

Originally posted by FORD
They created terror against their OWN religion when they created Hamas.

doesnt answer my question though does it?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I'm not discounting that possibility, but do you have any scholarly articles on that one?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_watson_012703_hamas.html

https://israel.indymedia.org/newswire/display/4126/index.php

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_watson_012703_hamas.html

https://israel.indymedia.org/newswire/display/4126/index.php

Thank you, I shall research at my leisure...

[FORD]

Originally posted by singerman
doesnt answer my question though does it?

It should. Because it establishes the fact that the rogue fascist element of the Israeli government would rather create an enemy - and as a result, kill their own people - than make peace with the Palestinians. And the CIA allowed Bin Laden's group to mutate for the same purpose. Without a Soviet Union for them to annoy, this little pissant band of turban wearing rednecks was transformed into "an enemy to be feared as much as the USSR" although anyone with a functional brain should know that's far more fiction than fact.

[Unchainme]

Originally posted by FORD
It should. Because it establishes the fact that the rogue fascist element of the Israeli government would rather create an enemy - and as a result, kill their own people - than make peace with the Palestinians. And the CIA allowed Bin Laden's group to mutate for the same purpose. Without a Soviet Union for them to annoy, this little pissant band of turban wearing rednecks was transformed into "an enemy to be feared as much as the USSR" although anyone with a functional brain should know that's far more fiction than fact.

AKA See The Movie Canadian Bacon Theory, Perfectly explains this YEARS Before said events occured. Love that movie.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by franksters
... there should be all kinds of those cartoon!

THEY just make me wanna grab my old air brush and go spray paint all of our city walls with those caricatures! :o
I'll teach you how to draw... :D

WE have to ignore their lack of humor (and common sens) and do as we want... in our own countries!

Fuck'n control freaks! :gun:

They obviously have no respect for us... why would WE respect them?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
THEY just make me wanna grab my old air brush and go spray paint all of our city walls with those caricatures! :o
I'll teach you how to draw... :D

WE have to ignore their lack of humor (and common sens) and do as we want... in our own countries!

Fuck'n control freaks! :gun:

They obviously have no respect for us... why would WE respect them?

You make a very good point.
And these are the fanatics that come here and try to alter our laws to suit them.
They have zero respect for anything Western but somehow we bow down to this crap and allow it to pass.

I know several Muslim people, and all of them that are married are married to white women, that trips me out.

But i don't know any fanatics, or should i say they haven't shown that side of them yet.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by Cathedral
I know several Muslim people, and all of them that are married are married to white women, that trips me out.

But how many of those woman have had to covert to Muslim, and now have to respect the cultures of a country that isn't there own (and one that they not ever have been to)

[Nitro Express]

The Muslims are showing their true cards which is basically world domination, "Join us or die!" Their hate of the Jews and love of violence remind me of the Nazis. I have some Muslim friends as well but that doesn't mean I won't side against them if they support the murdering thugs of their faith and culture. Not everybody in Nazi Germany were evil but we had to eventually fight them to rid the world of a menace. Whether the world goes to war is up to the Muslims and their behavior. If they don't like us in Iraq or Afganistahn then they shouldn't have attacked us. Europe and Russia seemed like they were supporting the Muslims but they have been attacked with terrorism as well.

The truth of the matter is the problem isn't going to go away, it is only going to esculate. Meanwhile, we have the richest country in the world building a huge military machine. The Peoples Republic of China and I think they will side with our Islamic enemies. They could care less about Israel, they have weapons the Muslims want, and they want the middle east oil fields as bad as we do.

I would have no problem with the Muslims if they worshipped in their own countries and left us alone. It's a big world and people have their own religions and cultures. Hating people because they live differently and don't want to live the way you live is what this is all about. If anyone is discracing Muhammed it's the Muslims. Most people think of bombings and violence because that is what their religion is known for. If they were a peaceful people who did good things there wouldn't be a bomb in Muhammed's turban and he wouldn't be a symbol of violence.

[Nitro Express]

Islams downfall is it's violence. They fight each other constantly. There are over a billion Muslims but they can't unify as a religion because they are constantly fighting each other. There's only 13 million Jews in the world. About six million live in Israel. Why has Israel lasted for a half century? Because the Muslims are lousey fighters. They can't even run a few million Jews out and they couldn't before Israel had nukes.

It was the Muslims who burried the peace process. The current elections show the Palistinians love and support their terrorists. They got Gaza because the Jews were nice enough to give it away. Now rockets and artillery will fly into the Jewish regions as the Jews build huge security walls around themselves and Israel looks like Berlin.

Amazingly a few simple cartoons and the Islamic reaction has made the rest of the world say,"Fuck You!" Yeah the same people who before would accuse you of being a "racist" by badmouthing Islam now are saying "Fuck the Muslims!" The bombings, arson, kidnappings, shootings, and beheadings are making Russia, Europe, and America say "Fuck You!" together. Keep it up Muslims. France accused us of being a bully until you guys rioted for days, now they want to get rid of you.

Muslims are becoming like roaches, everybody is going to want to get rid of them.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
But how many of those woman have had to covert to Muslim, and now have to respect the cultures of a country that isn't there own (and one that they not ever have been to)

Countries where they get "lured" or simply kidnapped to...:mad:
Some of them got lucky and got out of it...
Some other died or wish they where! :(

I really don't understand why a woman would convert to that...
I'ts like signin' up for a lifetime of trouble and pain! :rolleyes:

Isn't there enough beautiful and "normal" guys to chose from, in our own culture :confused:
(Or any other culture that have respect for humanity)?

Anything but Muslims!!! :mad:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
But how many of those woman have had to covert to Muslim, and now have to respect the cultures of a country that isn't there own (and one that they not ever have been to)

Neither, the families won't accept western women as equals or spouses.
The children are welcome, but the white woman is not.

I know two couples in such a situation and they don't know each other, yet the families reactions are the same.

Both Muslim men though have a habit of taking the kids and running home to the mid-east with threats of never returning when they argue. Sadly, children are all too often taken away from their mothers in similar ways and raised to hate the mother.

[BigBadBrian]

Here's all 12 cartoons for those who haven't seen them. I think it is appropriate to leave these cartoons in this thread considering the thread is about them.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish1.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish002.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish003.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish004.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish005.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish006.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish007.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish008.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish009.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish010.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish011.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish012.jpg

[flatbroke]

The irony about the latest Islamic violence and hahem is not that it is unusual — but how very ordinary in so many ways it has become.

These cartoons did not bring out some previously nonexistent fury. They have simply become the latest litmus test of how very much scum of the Islamic world believe they are entitled to get away with, whatever the pretext.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Neither, the families won't accept western women as equals or spouses.
The children are welcome, but the white woman is not.

I know two couples in such a situation and they don't know each other, yet the families reactions are the same.

Both Muslim men though have a habit of taking the kids and running home to the mid-east with threats of never returning when they argue. Sadly, children are all too often taken away from their mothers in similar ways and raised to hate the mother.

It's one thing to be born into such a culture but to CONVERT to it...
knowing now, what we all know about their abusive practices???

Sometimes, I feel like asking these women "why did you do it"?
But I would be talking to a wall + I couldn't eaven respect their point of view!

I just don't get it... never will :confused:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
[B]Here's all 12 cartoons for those who haven't seen them. I think it is appropriate to leave these cartoons in this thread considering the thread is about them. ...

For sure... leave them there!!!

WE all have a sens of humor here, and it is our right to laugh at whatever the fuck we please...

Is'n it what we all stand for... "Freedom of Speach"?

[FORD]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
For sure... leave them there!!!

WE all have a sens of humor here, and it is our right to laugh at whatever the fuck we please...

Is'n it what we all stand for... "Freedom of Speach"?

That doesn't exist on this side of the border anymore. And once Chimpy gives his clone Stevie a good enough excuse, it won't exist on your side either. Looks like you already got the anti Muslim Kool-Aid part taken care of :(

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Here's all 12 cartoons for those who haven't seen them. I think it is appropriate to leave these cartoons in this thread considering the thread is about them.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish1.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish002.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish003.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish004.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish005.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish006.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish007.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish008.jpg http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish009.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish010.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish011.jpg
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/danish012.jpg

These are also being reprinted today in a French magazine apparently. There was an injction to stop this, but last I heard (at 7.45 this morning) it had failed to stop the print.

[Warham]

Oh brother. :rolleyes:

[jhale667]

THAT is what all the fuss is about? Give me a fucking break! :mad: The collective world needs to tell Islamic fundamentalists to "Lighten up, Francis"!!!


So basically if you draw ANYONE in a Turban it should be legal for them to riot? What the fuck are THEY smoking?

[FORD]

Originally posted by jhale667
THAT is what all the fuss is about? Give me a fucking break! :mad: The collective world needs to tell Islamic fundamentalists to "Lighten up, Francis"!!!


So basically if you draw ANYONE in a Turban it should be legal for them to riot? What the fuck are THEY smoking?

Hash, most likely.

But that's beside the point. If the Quran says that it's prohibited to make an image of Allah or the prophet under any circumstances, then that alone will be enough to set off some fundie wackos. Just like the right wingers in this country will over-react if someone dares to make a TV show where Jesus Christ is portrayed as actually speaking to an Episcopal priest. Hell, some people want a lynching if JC shows up on a message board and merely speaks His own word!

In any case, portraying the founder of the Islamic faith with a bomb in his turban, or greeting "suicide bombers" with the line"Stop! We're out of virgins!! is definitely going to be taken offensively by ANY Muslim, as it's equating all who practice that religion with a handful of fascists. It would be comparable to a depiction of Jesus helping Chimp plot his predatory PNAC wars, knowing that the very idea is against all that Christ taught.

Some of the other cartoons are probably harmless enough in and of themselves, but after the publishing of the anti-Mohammed cartoons, it's just more fuel for the flag burning fire.

[flatbroke]

Why should the Western press be afraid to risk offending those who even before the recent protests had racked up a record of death threats and murder? It's too bad, but the shoe fits. Four months ago, this was a non issue until radical imams from Denmark went around the world with these cartoons - and some that were not even published in the Denmark press, intent on inciting violence against the west.

Muslim, and particularly Arab, governments have a vested interest in stirring up this sort of thing because it distracts from their own corrupt regimes. And the Muslim "street" seems to fall for it every time.

[FORD]

I'm not excusing the Muslims' actions or reactions. Just pointing out how this all comes from cultural ignorance. It's possible that the original Danish artist knew exactly what he was doing, in which case I would turn him over to the angry mob. But even now, even here, perceptions of what Islam is all about are driven by a propagandized whore media controlled by those who have chosen the Muslims as the new "Jews", scapegoats to excuse their fascist empire building.

[diamondD]

Originally posted by FORD
Hash, most likely.

But that's beside the point. If the Quran says that it's prohibited to make an image of Allah or the prophet under any circumstances, then that alone will be enough to set off some fundie wackos. Just like the right wingers in this country will over-react if someone dares to make a TV show where Jesus Christ is portrayed as actually speaking to an Episcopal priest. Hell, some people want a lynching if JC shows up on a message board and merely speaks His own word!

In any case, portraying the founder of the Islamic faith with a bomb in his turban, or greeting "suicide bombers" with the line"Stop! We're out of virgins!! is definitely going to be taken offensively by ANY Muslim, as it's equating all who practice that religion with a handful of fascists. It would be comparable to a depiction of Jesus helping Chimp plot his predatory PNAC wars, knowing that the very idea is against all that Christ taught.

Some of the other cartoons are probably harmless enough in and of themselves, but after the publishing of the anti-Mohammed cartoons, it's just more fuel for the flag burning fire.


Isn't all this posturing a bit hypocritical coming from someone who posts picures of Bush as Hitler on a Jewish rock star's fan site?

I know, I know, it's only excusable because it's your agenda...

[FORD]

Originally posted by diamondD
Isn't all this posturing a bit hypocritical coming from someone who posts picures of Bush as Hitler on a Jewish rock star's fan site?

I know, I know, it's only excusable because it's your agenda...

Depiction of the Chimp as Hitler have nothing to do with the previous Holocaust, but everything to do with preventing the next one.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by FORD
That doesn't exist on this side of the border anymore. And once Chimpy gives his clone Stevie a good enough excuse, it won't exist on your side either. Looks like you already got the anti Muslim Kool-Aid part taken care of :(

Well... I don't know where "Seahawk Country" is but I suspect you are an American...

If so... PLEASE do not compare our freedom with your's!
As for what will happen of it, in the future?
WE will be the ones to vote on that... Thank You! ;)


And yes... Proud to say that I am totally Anti-Muslim!
Simple:
They "naturally" hate me, so I hate them for it!

I wouldn't have any problem if they could only stay in the Mid. East
instead of MOVING in countries that have such different values...
just to demonstrate their hatrance in violent acts...


B.T.W...
We where raised to respect and be respected and women had fought very hard for "equality" here...
Do you understand why I think that they could be (on top of it all) a bad influence on kids?

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777

And yes... Proud to say that I am totally Anti-Muslim!
Simple:
They "naturally" hate me, so I hate them for it!


isn't that a bit broad? you're assuming that all muslims think, feel and act the same way as a small group of fanatics?

[Nickdfresh]

Nice that people are still stupid enough to fall for "the clash of cultures" crap...

Works everytime.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
isn't that a bit broad? you're assuming that all muslims think, feel and act the same way as a small group of fanatics?

It's not really, the Quran is fairly clear with it's views on woman:

Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228

A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282

Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11

You may not forcibly inherit women, unless they flagrantly lewd. 4:19

Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98

"Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females." 4:176

Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 15:71


And so on...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
It's not really, the Quran is fairly clear with it's views on woman:

Women have rights that are similar to men, but men are "a degree above them." 2:228

A woman is worth one-half a man. 2:282

Males are to inherit twice that of females. 4:11

You may not forcibly inherit women, unless they flagrantly lewd. 4:19

Women are feeble and are unable to devise a plan. 4:98

"Unto the male is the equivalent share of two females." 4:176

Lot offers his daughters to a mob of angel rapers. 15:71


And so on...

You have any good, really misogynist, Biblical quotes?

I think it's tough to judge people by the written word in their religion when there is some serious spew in the Bible...

[Golden AWe]

When you think of it, if the danish apologised about the photos, would it really hurt the freedom of speech? Does it really have a lot to do with it?

I saw a very interesting conversation about this on TV today and our foreign minister had a pretty smart comparison here: Since the cartoons are not a crime, just some bad behaviour, is it so hard to apologise?

He continued: "If my friend is drunk and behaves badly in a metro, but doesn't actually commit a crime, apologising about it is just good manners".

[diamondD]

Originally posted by FORD
Depiction of the Chimp as Hitler have nothing to do with the previous Holocaust, but everything to do with preventing the next one.

Thanks for proving my point about your agenda. Nice work.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I think it's tough to judge people by the written word in their religion when there is some serious spew in the Bible...

Granted there is some serious spew in the Bible (And a man will choose...any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman...Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" Ecclesiasticus, 25:18,). However the Bible (unlike the Quran) doesn't glorify killing - I don't recall anywhere in the Bible being promised 100 virgins for killing an infidel.

[knuckleboner]

should i quote you any old testament sayings about slavery?

but again, there are hundreds of millions of muslims in the world. are they all to be held accountable for the actions of a few? presumably the ones who have openly opposed violence don't count?

[Hardrock69]

Here is Mohammed:

[Hardrock69]

And in the interest of fair play, here is Jesus:

[Nickdfresh]

Any Muslim I've ever met personally has been nothing but decent and respectful...

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You have any good, really misogynist, Biblical quotes?

I think it's tough to judge people by the written word in their religion when there is some serious spew in the Bible...

Well, the part about
Lot offering his daughters to the angel rapers is also in Genesis 19 (a.k.a the Sodom & Gommorah story). And at the end of the chapter, the girls get dad drunk and fuck him while he's asleep, because God just nuked all their potential boyfriends.

Guess they were too horny to make it to the next town?

[Hardrock69]

Guess so....and considering their dad was realy old, I wonder how long they had to suck him off before he could get it up?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
I'm not excusing the Muslims' actions or reactions. Just pointing out how this all comes from cultural ignorance. It's possible that the original Danish artist knew exactly what he was doing, in which case I would turn him over to the angry mob. But even now, even here, perceptions of what Islam is all about are driven by a propagandized whore media controlled by those who have chosen the Muslims as the new "Jews", scapegoats to excuse their fascist empire building.

You act as though the Muslim agenda isn't still to push all Jews into the ocean.
Sorry to bust your bubble of fantasy, but that agenda has NEVER changed...and they want to throw us into the abyss with them.

But you go right ahead and think you are standing up for the underdog, I have a strong feeling you'd be the star of the next "Jihad Idol" the moment you turn your back towards them.

I'd say don't lose your head over it, but that is exactly what you'll get in return for your sympathy for the devil.

Your political viewpoints have skewed your perception of the real reality. But it's only political from your viewpoint, from theirs it's as simple as exterminating the infidels.

You are so hell bent on labeling Bush as the new Hitler that you don't see that the jihadist's actually think like Hitler...Those people are evil, Ford, and they want YOU and I dead, period.

[singerman]

aw shit!....I guess all the fuss about cartoons has screwed my idea about releasing a religious version of Pictionary

[jhale667]

'Jihad idol'---LMAO :D

I think Muslims need to denounce the whole "kill the infidel" thing...it's so freaking 12 B.C., y'know? If your religion is calling for you to KILL those with dissenting opinions, or those who mock your beliefs, you need a new religion. Quick.

It's amazing they don't see the hypocrisy of that level of insecurity in their faith, and that the ones that DO aren't more vocal in challenging the status quo. I'm telling you, it's time for the Islam-equivalent of Vatican II!!! :D They need to re-think their religion's entire premise....

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
You act as though the Muslim agenda isn't still to push all Jews into the ocean.
Sorry to bust your bubble of fantasy, but that agenda has NEVER changed...and they want to throw us into the abyss with them.

For some of them, that may well be the case, as far as wanting the Jews off of what they consider to be their land. And they have a pretty good case for squatter's rigts. In the 1900 years, give or take a decade or two, between the Romans evicting them, and the UN creating the "new" Israel on the heels of the Holocaust (Ezekiel 37 predicted it would happen like that) the land was occupied by the palestinians.

That's about 5 times longer than any white man has been on THIS continent. So to say the palestinians have no case, you also better be prepared to give up your own land if the local indigenous tribes come knocking on your door.

But you go right ahead and think you are standing up for the underdog, I have a strong feeling you'd be the star of the next "Jihad Idol" the moment you turn your back towards them.

I'd say don't lose your head over it, but that is exactly what you'll get in return for your sympathy for the devil.

Hey, leave the Stones out of this!

Your political viewpoints have skewed your perception of the real reality.

Pot. Kettle. Black.


But it's only political from your viewpoint, from theirs it's as simple as exterminating the infidels.

No, I simply refuse to live in fear, or believe ridiculous statements from those with a 70 year track record of lies and treason.

You are so hell bent on labeling Bush as the new Hitler that you don't see that the jihadist's actually think like Hitler...Those people are evil, Ford, and they want YOU and I dead, period.

Who are "those people"??

That is the question. It's certainly not all 1.3 billion Muslims. I doubt it's even the majority of Iraqi's, though the BCE has certainly given them valid reason to hate this country.

It's now a known fact that the BCE greatly exaggerated the Soviet threat after about 1975.
It's also a known fact that they lied their fucking treasonous asses off about Iraq, and they are STILL lying about it.

The official story of 9-11-01 is a bigger joke than the VDIII album and was about as coherently produced.

Does that mean I have all the answers? Fuck no.

But it does mean I won't stop the questioning. And i won't take those motherfucking crminals word for ANYTHING, let alone buy into the patently illogical fairy tale of a global terraist boogeyman.

[McCarrens]

Ford, what the hell does the BCE have to do with the cartoon? Nothing.

You can't argue politics. Anytime anyone says anything all you do is launch into your whole "BCE conspiracy" spiel.

[FORD]

Originally posted by McCarrens
Ford, what the hell does the BCE have to do with the cartoon? Nothing.

You can't argue politics. Anytime anyone says anything all you do is launch into your whole "BCE conspiracy" spiel.

How do you talk about the fucked up condition of the world without mentioning those who fucked it up? :confused:

[Nitro Express]

Grandpa. What started World War III?

Well this guy in Denmark drew some cartoons and.....

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Grandpa. What started World War III?

Well this guy in Denmark drew some cartoons and.....

Almost as dumb as what started WWI. Some fucking minor royalty slob in Serbia got shot..... hardly anyone's problem except the Serbs.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
... you're assuming that all muslims think, feel and act the same way as a small group of fanatics?


I am definitely not assuming... just conscient of the situation WE live in, HERE...
This my everyday life...

You, in Vancouver, have a lot of Asian immigrants...
Here, in Montreal and Toronto, we are surrounded by Muslims.
Our government welcomes them by the thousands and
they chose the provinces where the social benefits are fat (smart)!

Trust me, I went to school with them, I work with them, and I see people that dress
like they are going to hold up a bank... every single day!

No, I an NOT assuming... just "living it"!

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Any Muslim I've ever met personally has been nothing but decent and respectful...

And for me (and most of my aquintances)... it is the opposite.

[Nitro Express]

One of the best teachers I ever had was Muslim. I learned to drive a car from a Muslim. I lived next door to a Muslim for years. Sure, some of them are nice but when push comes to shove and people start taking sides, who are they going to be loyal to? I also know a girl from Pakistahn who married a Christian and became a Christian herself. She was threatened with numerouse death threats and disowned by her family.

It's clear things are going to esculate and the Muslim movement hates non-Muslims; especially Christians and Jews. If it's just a few radicles then how come the whole Muslim world celebrates when something bad happens to non Muslims or their sympathizers like 9/11 and they go completely ape shit over some cartoons? Christians and Jews are made fun of way more and you don't see us demonstrating, killing innocent people, and blowing things up.

I know many don't agree with the Bush Administrations way of dealing with the problem but no matter who was president, we were attacked, Europe and Russia have been attacked. Vacationers in Bali have been attacked. Embasies all over the world have been attacked. Muslims have killed thousands of innocent people just because they hate us. Period.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Who are "those people"??

That is the question. It's certainly not all 1.3 billion Muslims. I doubt it's even the majority of Iraqi's, though the BCE has certainly given them valid reason to hate this country.

It's now a known fact that the BCE greatly exaggerated the Soviet threat after about 1975.
It's also a known fact that they lied their fucking treasonous asses off about Iraq, and they are STILL lying about it.

The official story of 9-11-01 is a bigger joke than the VDIII album and was about as coherently produced.

Does that mean I have all the answers? Fuck no.

But it does mean I won't stop the questioning. And i won't take those motherfucking crminals word for ANYTHING, let alone buy into the patently illogical fairy tale of a global terraist boogeyman.

"These People" are the extremists that are running the streets with loaded AK-47's with nothing but war, destruction and dominance on their minds.
Don't talk to me as if i don't know there are many who do not act like that and actually want peace. I know the difference and i know all Muslims aren't extremists.

And you're right, the Republicans did give Iraqi's reason to hate us, back when Poppy backed off of a prime opportunity to remove Saddam that resulted in mass graves of men, women, and children.
Regardless of what people said back then, it was a mistake not to do it and Poppy lost his bid for re-election partly because of that, and the read my lips thing.

And again with, "The BCE Lied", but again i ask you, WHERE IS THE LEGAL ACTION FOR THESE CRIMES THAT ARE SO WELL KNOWN?
I have to keep reminding you that people in this country are innocent until proven guilty, all i ask is that you prove it and get him the hell out, i'll even support it IF I SEE THE PROOF BEYOND THE SHADOW OF THE DOUBT.

I won't take part in destroying the internal fiber of this country based on partisan hatred or over emotional political bantering, it ain't going to happen.

Ford, I don't have the answers either and like you I wish i did for all our sakes.
But dude, you consider what you do "asking questions"? lmmfao....I almost choked to death on that one.
There is a difference between an accusation, that isn't backed up by tangible evidence, or any evidence at all that can result in a conviction, and a question. And the answer won't be good enough or even accepted if it deviates from what you already believe.

I try to keep an open mind about things and i have seen enough to know that Bush isn't what this country needs, but neither is any Democrat that is currently getting exposure.

Bottom line is that I want the best possible government we can have for EVERYONE'S sake, not just my side.

Hell, I don't even have a side right now. I have to go out and get signatures just to get people i think i can trust on the damn ballot, but that's what i have to do to be able to sleep at night at this point.
I don't regret my first vote for Bush, he pretty much did what was expected...but since '04?
Damned if i know what his agenda is and so far he's been a threat to the Constitution, that much i agree with you on.
But as far as evidence to convict him and the administration?

I'm still waiting for that to surface in more than just op-ed articles and elaborate conspiracy plots.

I'm a realist and a skeptic, but all you have to do is prove your case to have me in your corner.
just like when the anti-christ comes to power, he'll have to prove who he is before i bow before him.
Just like when Jesus stood before Thomas, i have to feel the wounds because seeing isn't exactly believing anymore.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Nice that people are still stupid enough to fall for "the clash of cultures" crap...

Works everytime.

Look around you and you will realize that most of the world's conflicts ARE ABOUT... "clash of cultures"!

It ain't crap... it is real! :(

I am not an ignorant... I live in one of the most multi-cultural (North American) city, I get to travel to Europe and Asia (for work) and I know what I'm talking about when I say that some cultures "mix" better than others...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
One of the best teachers I ever had was Muslim. I learned to drive a car from a Muslim....

Those are talents and knowledge,
I am not denying that every human being has "some"...

Apparently, they are the best Doctors here...
But I just refuse to be TOUCHED by any of them!
(Funny, almost all of non-Muslim women feel the same?)

[Hardrock69]

I personally am in favor of everyone believing what they want to believe, and not killing each other.

Period.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
I personally am in favor of everyone believing what they want to believe, and not killing each other.

Period.


This is the bottom line...
Live and let LIVE!

THAT should be the "Universal Religion"!

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
"These People" are the extremists that are running the streets with loaded AK-47's with nothing but war, destruction and dominance on their minds.

Again, where is this taking place? In a country that is illegally occupied? While I'm saddenned by the death of any US service man (or woman) over there, you can't expect people to enjoy occupation. It certainly wouldn't be easy for the Chinese (or whomever) to occupy THIS country. (and yes, I do own Red Dawn on DVD. WOLVERINES!!!!!!)

Don't talk to me as if i don't know there are many who do not act like that and actually want peace. I know the difference and i know all Muslims aren't extremists.

Then I'm not sure who it is that you believe is the Muslim "threat".

And you're right, the Republicans did give Iraqi's reason to hate us, back when Poppy backed off of a prime opportunity to remove Saddam that resulted in mass graves of men, women, and children.
Regardless of what people said back then, it was a mistake not to do it and Poppy lost his bid for re-election partly because of that, and the read my lips thing.

God forbid I defend Poppy Bush, but he's explained his decision to NOT invade, and oddly enough, it was to avoid the very sort of quagmire that his idiot son is dealing with right now. And the way that Yugoslavia exploded over ethnic and religious lines in the 1990's, the PNAC'ers should have realized Poppy was right about that.

Now on the other hand, Poppy DID promise to suuport an internal uprising against Saddam, and then he renegged on that deal, causing a lot of people to die. And that move wasn't too good on his part. Regardless, Hussein wasn't much of a threat to anyone after that anyway, a reality that was becoming accepted until PNAC stepped in to distort it.

And again with, "The BCE Lied", but again i ask you, WHERE IS THE LEGAL ACTION FOR THESE CRIMES THAT ARE SO WELL KNOWN?
I have to keep reminding you that people in this country are innocent until proven guilty, all i ask is that you prove it and get him the hell out, i'll even support it IF I SEE THE PROOF BEYOND THE SHADOW OF THE DOUBT.

Did you know that yet another memo leaked out of the UK this week, this one documenting a conversation between Chimp and his poodle Blair from January 2003, where they committed to the invasion of Iraq, even though they KNEW there was no WMD's to be found?

This was a BBC News story, and it also ran in The Guardian, a mainstream London newspaper.

Not ONE corporate US media outlet reported the story.

Not Liberal conspiracy websites, the motherfucking BBC. You don't get more mainstream media than that. Yet in this country, the media doesn't want you to know. Why is that?

Does your local Ohio media report on all the Taft/Ney/Blackwell/Bohner/Diebold scandals? And if they don't, does that mean the crimes didn't happen?

I won't take part in destroying the internal fiber of this country based on partisan hatred or over emotional political bantering, it ain't going to happen.

Ford, I don't have the answers either and like you I wish i did for all our sakes.
But dude, you consider what you do "asking questions"? lmmfao....I almost choked to death on that one.
There is a difference between an accusation, that isn't backed up by tangible evidence, or any evidence at all that can result in a conviction, and a question. And the answer won't be good enough or even accepted if it deviates from what you already believe.

I try to keep an open mind about things and i have seen enough to know that Bush isn't what this country needs, but neither is any Democrat that is currently getting exposure.

Bottom line is that I want the best possible government we can have for EVERYONE'S sake, not just my side.

You mistake my motives for partisan, but that isn't the case at all. True, there are very few "Republicans" I would currently vote for, but that's because the BCE and their affiliates like the religious reich own the party machine.

However, the number of "Democrats" I can support seems to be shrinking all the time. If you gave me a ballot with two names on it, "Hillary Clinton" and "Pat Buchanan", right now I would vote for Pat. Knowing full well that his domestic agenda would probably make me violently ill, but at least PNAC, AIPAC, and the "free" trade corporatists wouldn't be telling him what to do. And he would put an end to this interventionist war bullshit.

Hell, I don't even have a side right now. I have to go out and get signatures just to get people i think i can trust on the damn ballot, but that's what i have to do to be able to sleep at night at this point.
I don't regret my first vote for Bush, he pretty much did what was expected...but since '04?
Damned if i know what his agenda is and so far he's been a threat to the Constitution, that much i agree with you on.
But as far as evidence to convict him and the administration?

I'm still waiting for that to surface in more than just op-ed articles and elaborate conspiracy plots.

I'm a realist and a skeptic, but all you have to do is prove your case to have me in your corner.

If you can't deal with "left wing conspiracy sites", try the mainstream media. From countries that still have a free press, that is. The BBC. The Guardian. CBC (if the Harperites haven't converted it to FAUX II yet). The Sydney Morning Herald from Australia has published some great stuff in recent years. All of these are available online, of course.

just like when the anti-christ comes to power, he'll have to prove who he is before i bow before him.
Just like when Jesus stood before Thomas, i have to feel the wounds because seeing isn't exactly believing anymore.

The "wounds" in this country should be as obvious as the ones in JC's hands and feet by now, and most of them weren't there before December 12, 2000. And the ones that were have grown noticeably worse. Any "Doubting Thomas" should be able to see that by now.

And I'm not bowing to any Antichrist. Chimpy or otherwise.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Again, where is this taking place? In a country that is illegally occupied? While I'm saddenned by the death of any US service man (or woman) over there, you can't expect people to enjoy occupation. It certainly wouldn't be easy for the Chinese (or whomever) to occupy THIS country. (and yes, I do own Red Dawn on DVD. WOLVERINES!!!!!!)

The entire Middle East is what i meant, not just Afghanistan or Iraq.

Then I'm not sure who it is that you believe is the Muslim "threat".

I don't believe all threats or terrorists are Muslim, so that is kind of removing me from my own context. along with them are Saudi's, Egyptians, African Americans and Americans. Muslim is NOT the textbook definition of a terrorist in my book, anyone of any walk of life can be an agent of terror.


God forbid I defend Poppy Bush, but he's explained his decision to NOT invade, and oddly enough, it was to avoid the very sort of quagmire that his idiot son is dealing with right now. And the way that Yugoslavia exploded over ethnic and religious lines in the 1990's, the PNAC'ers should have realized Poppy was right about that.

Now on the other hand, Poppy DID promise to suuport an internal uprising against Saddam, and then he renegged on that deal, causing a lot of people to die. And that move wasn't too good on his part. Regardless, Hussein wasn't much of a threat to anyone after that anyway, a reality that was becoming accepted until PNAC stepped in to distort it.

Ahhhhh, but you think this isn't a reason for them to hate us? and when the welcome wagon didn't come out in Iraq 3 years ago it was a sure sign that we destroyed their fundamental trust in us to liberate them...and it's why they haven't been so quick to pick up arms to fight this time.



Did you know that yet another memo leaked out of the UK this week, this one documenting a conversation between Chimp and his poodle Blair from January 2003, where they committed to the invasion of Iraq, even though they KNEW there was no WMD's to be found?

This was a BBC News story, and it also ran in The Guardian, a mainstream London newspaper.

Not ONE corporate US media outlet reported the story.

Not Liberal conspiracy websites, the motherfucking BBC. You don't get more mainstream media than that. Yet in this country, the media doesn't want you to know. Why is that?

Maybe because it isn't true? Hell man, I did read about that from a few sources, and i even got it from the BBC, which i happen to respect. but if it had any substance at all why wasn't it persued by the Democrats and used to get impeachment rolling?
Ford, for a dumbass idiot monkey, Bush seems to be smart enough to evade capture and i find it embarrassing to keep hearing the war drums of the Democrat without the soldiers mounting an attack to save this country from the terrible threat the Dems think Bush is.

The man is a dissapointment to me, and i would like a change in direction ASAP, but it takes more than what is being presented to initiate that change, that's all i'm saying.

Does your local Ohio media report on all the Taft/Ney/Blackwell/Bohner/Diebold scandals? And if they don't, does that mean the crimes didn't happen?

Actually, our news sources are pretty good about reporting the news as it happened, which is one thing i like about where i live. The local stations don't do business the same way as the big boys do, even the local Fox station seems to be a rogue force in that regard.


You mistake my motives for partisan, but that isn't the case at all. True, there are very few "Republicans" I would currently vote for, but that's because the BCE and their affiliates like the religious reich own the party machine.

However, the number of "Democrats" I can support seems to be shrinking all the time. If you gave me a ballot with two names on it, "Hillary Clinton" and "Pat Buchanan", right now I would vote for Pat. Knowing full well that his domestic agenda would probably make me violently ill, but at least PNAC, AIPAC, and the "free" trade corporatists wouldn't be telling him what to do. And he would put an end to this interventionist war bullshit.

I agree, Pat would steer us away from Iraq, but he'd do it right and i think it is time to start scaling down there significantly anyway. but i say that because i am not satisfied with how the Iraqi's have stood up for themselves. I understand their initial hesitation, but we've lost over 2000 soldiers and been there over 3 years, i think we've more than proven we were in it for the long haul. but forever is NOT an option...I don't even want bases there.


If you can't deal with "left wing conspiracy sites", try the mainstream media. From countries that still have a free press, that is. The BBC. The Guardian. CBC (if the Harperites haven't converted it to FAUX II yet). The Sydney Morning Herald from Australia has published some great stuff in recent years. All of these are available online, of course.

That's just it, I don't believe any country has a free press at all these days. There is manipulation in everything and nothing is completely honest or without spin, nothing.

The "wounds" in this country should be as obvious as the ones in JC's hands and feet by now, and most of them weren't there before December 12, 2000. And the ones that were have grown noticeably worse. Any "Doubting Thomas" should be able to see that by now.

Agreed, but being a student of the Word, it is all coming to pass as it was written so it is actually going just as it was planned by God. We are incapable of altering his will.

And I'm not bowing to any Antichrist. Chimpy or otherwise.

Chimpy is not the Anti-Christ, he's no Christian, but he's not any spawn of Satan either. The thing to remember here, unless you are a fan of "The Rapture" theory, is that Jesus was already here in the flesh, he will not return in the flesh again. Though many are well prepared for a man to take a seat at the throne in the new temple, that man will not be the Messiah and a great many will be decieved by him.

[franksters]

Originally posted by Cathedral
You make a very good point.
And these are the fanatics that come here and try to alter our laws to suit them.
They have zero respect for anything Western but somehow we bow down to this crap and allow it to pass.

I know several Muslim people, and all of them that are married are married to white women, that trips me out.

But i don't know any fanatics, or should i say they haven't shown that side of them yet.

They haven't shown that side of them yet, the minute they have kidz, thing will change...

the minute their women does not behave the way they order to... you'll see what happen...

My other point is the solution to all these freaks:

All they need in their country is BEER, a NATIONAL SPORT, GAMBLING, STRIPPERS, PROSTITUTION, PLAYBOY AND MUSIC!

That should settle their ''I'm ready to die feeling...''

remove these items from western society and see what happens, let the killing begin!

These people have fuck all to look forward to, give them something to do and things will change, if they don't want it, then let's put them in 1 place and stop dealing with them, period.

[flatbroke]

It's the Islamists magnified the offense by circulating the Danish cartoons with three truly gross, but invented, ones (e.g., Muhammad as a pig). In order to protest blasphemy, the Islamists committed it. Now a mass demonstration of 100,000 Muslims will take place in London next weekend.

The "outpouring" of Muslim wrath was and continues to be the deliberate plan of militant activists. Think about it, how many Danish flags are normally available in Gaza, or Jakarta?

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by franksters
... All they need in their country is BEER, a NATIONAL SPORT, GAMBLING, STRIPPERS, PROSTITUTION, PLAYBOY AND MUSIC!


.... if they don't want it, then let's put them in 1 place and stop dealing with them, period.


True that, but;
Since we all know that the Mid. East ain't gonna becaume the new Vegas...

I vote for option #2!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
Look around you and you will realize that most of the world's conflicts ARE ABOUT... "clash of cultures"!

It ain't crap... it is real! :(

I am not an ignorant... I live in one of the most multi-cultural (North American) city, I get to travel to Europe and Asia (for work) and I know what I'm talking about when I say that some cultures "mix" better than others...

No. It's extremists and governments that stoke flames and play the hate card to "unite" you. And to get their citizens to forget how terribly they actually govern....

[flatbroke]

This boils down to Islamists expecting that the West will be appeasing their demands for censorship. If the demands are granted, our concessions will merely be the springboard for a further attack on Western liberties. The US, French, German, Spanish and other European newspapers that have reproduced the cartoons should be applauded.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No. It's extremists and governments that stoke flames and play the hate card to "unite" you. And to get their citizens to forget how terribly they actually govern....

I agree!

We are a land of adoption (we really need those tax payers) but the reallity is that the PEOPLE in everyday life,
JUST DON'T GET ALONG...

The ones that are trying to mix with Mid. Easterns always end up in some kind of trouble!

If only we could feel a little bit of good intentions from them, some respect towards their new land of opportunity :confused:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by flatbroke
This boils down to Islamists expecting that the West will be appeasing their demands for censorship. If the demands are granted, our concessions will merely be the springboard for a further attack on Western liberties. The US, French, German, Spanish and other European newspapers that have reproduced the cartoons should be applauded.

Totally!
It is up to us all to show them that they can't always win and get things their ways (like cry babies)...

[blonddgirl777]

Again...

If they would stick to their own countries (like they should), they wouldn't get offended by our lifestiles,
beleifs and sens of humor etc...

"Huuhhh... We want to be part of the Western world but they better start abiding by our rules... if not?"
:gun:

[jero]

Where there are muslims there is trouble. Europe is at the beginning of big big problems!

[franksters]

Originally posted by jero
Where there are muslims there is trouble. Europe is at the beginning of big big problems!

like i've said before...

AFGHANISTAN:
Taliban fighting back, but continues losing ground as new government slowly extends control. But independent minded tribes, warlords and drug gangs still stand in the way of peace, prosperity and true national unity.

ALGERIA :
Islamic rebels fading away, but a general uprising looms because of dissatisfaction with the old revolutionaries that refuse to honor election results or share power.

BALKANS :

The Greater Albania Movement is driven by part time Albanian nationalists, full time gangsters and a growing number of Islamic radicals. Bosnia continues to attract Islamic terrorists.

CENTRAL ASIA :

Dictators brew rebellion by suppressing democrats and Islamic radicals.

INDIA-PAKISTAN:

Kashmir is but one of many rebellions that beset the region. But India and Pakistan have nukes, making escalation a potential catastrophe. Recent peace talks have lowered the possibility of war, but both sides continue an arms race.

INDONESIA

Separatism, pirates, Islamic terrorists and government corruption create a volatile situation that is slowly calming down.

IRAN

Minority of Islamic conservatives have veto power over the majority of reformers. The supply of peaceful solutions is drying up. After that comes another revolution. Meanwhile, the Islamic conservatives are determined to build nuclear weapons.

IRAQ

Sunni Arab minority makes peace with the majority Kurds and Shia Arabs. But Sunni Arab Islamic radicals still back terrorism attacks against government and Shia Arabs (who are considered heretics).

ISRAEL

Jewish and Palestinian radicals continue to confront peacemakers. The Palestinian people got tired of terrorism and are trying to work out a peace deal with Israel.

PHILIPPINES

Islamic minority in the south wants it's own country, and expulsion of non-Moslems. Communist rebels in the north fight for social justice and a dictatorship.

RUSSIA

Rebuilding and reforming the Soviet era armed forces and fighting gangsters and Islamic radicals in Chechnya.

THAILAND

Moslems in the south have a different religion than most Thais, and are different ethnically as well (they are Malays). Islamic radicalism has arrived, along with an armed effort to create a separate Islamic state among the few million people in the area.

WAR ON TERROR

International terrorism has created a international backlash and a war unlike any other.

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
If they would stick to their own countries (like they should),

What country did your parents (or grandparents) come from? They should have stuck to their own country.

Come on blond... this is Canada, a nation built by "immigrants".

[FORD]

Originally posted by Angel
What country did your parents (or grandparents) come from? They should have stuck to their own country.

Come on blond... this is Canada, a nation built by "immigrants".

I think some of your fellow Hosers already drank some of Stevie Harper's neo-con koolaid. :(

[Angel]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
You would think Europe, Canada, and the US would be together on the increasing problem of radicle Islam and it's huge terrorist networks. Instead, we seem to hate each other at well.

All I know is the world looks like it's going to be a bunch of fighting motherfuckers soon.

Nah, we just hate George Bush's USA, we still love the rest of the world, and we'll love the US again once GWB is gone. ;)

[Nitro Express]

I have a big wake up call. Read the history books, people have been fighting each other forever over variouse reasons. What is going on now is nothing new.

Islamic Terrorists finaly attack the United States hard enough to really piss us off. They were attacking us before overseas on a small scale but 9/11 really did it. Of course like Germany in WWII, the Bush Administration uses 9/11 as an excuse to grab some oil rich land that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. By breaking off from Afganistahn and going into Iraq, we made the rest of the world distrust us. The weapons of mass destruction excuse was thin to begin with.

More Islamic attacks in Europe, Indonesia, and Russia has driven it home to the rest of the world, it's not just a spat between the US and the Islamic world.

There's a huge distrust of the Bush Administration but we are all agreeing Islam is the new big problem that replaced the Soviet thug machine. The reality is as soon as you beat one enemy there is always another to replace him. It's impossible to let people just live their lives and not use violence because someone is always trying to push their way of life on you. The question is, do you take it up the ass and submit or do you beath the shit out of the motherfucker so you can live your life the way you want to. That is a war for freedom is it not?

All I can say is live today to the fullest because you may not be alive tommorrow. Life is always changing and wars come and go. There has never been a war or a threat that someone didn't try and take advantage of the situation but the initial threat is there.

Sure we can hate Bush or grip about stupid military beurocracy but the Muslims are comming for us. They want what we have worked for (that is why they come) and they want to put us under their shoe. If Canada, the United States, or Europe continues to let more in, they will eventually organize and take things over and they are working on it at this moment. The problem will not go away.

We will have to fight the problem whether we like it or not. At least Hitler declared war on you. The Muslims sneak around and stab you in the back. It's a fucking mess and it ain't Mayberry anymore. Osama Bin Ladden fucked Opie up the ass.

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
At least Hitler declared war on you. The Muslims sneak around and stab you in the back.

That's an interesting train of thought because one of Hitlers prime lines of argument for the Nazi party's persecution of the Jews was that they stabbed Germany in the back.

Just a little historical footnote for you all.

[flatbroke]

What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Wow! This is one of the most awesome threads I've ever read around, how could I miss it?
Cartoons... I almost never missed an issue of my fave satiric paper in 6 years, until yesterday. "My" Charlie Hebdo, having been widely advertised because of a mediatic controversy due to parodies of Muhammad, the muslim prophet, that were announced as the central topic of yesterday's edition... As a follow up of the Danish cartoons issue, it had many non-usual buyers purchase the uncompromising (but they always are at Charlie Hebdo) issue, so that the paper was very soon impossible to find early yesterday morning - while I was working, aaarrgh!

I have mixed feelings about that (European satiric cartoonists insisting on the so-called - as any is, in any religion... - prophet):

- Insisting, as Charlie Hebdo particularly is, on such a "sensitive" topic as (may it as dumb as it is) religious beliefs, looks like provocation, that could well not be...

- Even though muslims should not even dare suggesting that they could interfere in European affairs as far as censorship, considering that European societies have been secular for, as it is the case for France for instance, one century (since 1905). Yet, hadn't it been the case, they should keep about as far from our affairs as their so-called prophet is from reality. Most Western European democracies are based on reality, not religious delirium, be it of muslim or holy-joe source. :mad: :cool:

That said, today I missed my first issue of the paper I like most (done by brilliant free minds, writers or cartoonists, the latter being the last true philosophers of our time, IMO), because of a massive advertising campaign that resulted from the continuous mentioning of thair next publication, that was announced as even more non-compromising...
What gets me mad is that the issue was bought by the nearly 20% of extreme right-wing brainless jerks who thought they were going to read racist crap...
Charlie Hebdo is nothing like such shit paper: all they ever denounce, week after week, is social injustice, intellectual misguiding, or political malfunctions. Anyway, the result is I will be deprived of the first Charlie issue in 6 years. Fuck the media! :mad:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
What country did your parents (or grandparents) come from? They should have stuck to their own country. ...

My parents, grand-parents and great grand-parents where born here.
My ancesters came from France and YES...
They should have "stuck in there"!

That way I wouldn't be freezing my ass in winter wonderland and I would be closer to Jérôme...
and French wineries... :rolleyes:

[Nitro Express]

Originally posted by flatbroke
What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live


Fucking Brilliant!

[Nitro Express]

I have a friend who runs a winery in Nice. Should I tell him a nice Canadian girl is looking for a job?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by flatbroke
What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live

This should be published, and then pasted on every bus in every town in America.
Beautiful post, absolutely beautiful.......

[jhale667]

Originally posted by flatbroke
What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live

Excellent post. :baaa:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
...Come on blond... this is Canada, a nation built by "immigrants".

You tell me?

I don't know where EH is, in Canada but I can tell you thet here, it is NOT "white bread Canada"...
And THANK GOD it ain't!

Yes, my French ancesters came here, raped the Amerindiens of their land and worked their ass off on it,
for the English to conqueer later on and to welcome other nationalities, as we do now.

We do need immigrants to support our socialist system and I enjoy living along with EVERY NATIONALITIES here... just not the Mid. Easterns because they are extremely different, therefore don't get along with ANYBODYELSE!

It is humainly impossible to ALL get along...

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by flatbroke
What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live


Well said! :cato2:

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
I have a friend who runs a winery in Nice. Should I tell him a nice Canadian girl is looking for a job?

PLEASE do!
I loved Nice but didn't see wineries there :confused:

You're joking right? :rolleyes:

[Nitro Express]

His family runs sevral wine opperations in France and in Italy but his family is from Nice so I assumed they had a winery in the Nice area as well.

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
His family runs sevral wine opperations in France and in Italy but his family is from Nice so I assumed they had a winery in the Nice area as well.

You are very lucky to have such a "connection" in France...
I really wish I would!

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
just not the Mid. Easterns because they are extremely different, therefore don't get along with ANYBODYELSE!

It is humainly impossible to ALL get along...

Have you tried? I have numerous mid-Eastern friends, and we all get along just fine. I show respect for their ways when in their homes, and vice versa. So far I haven't found anyone in the world I can't get along with.

Were any of your ancestors "Genereux" by any chance? If so, we may be related! (I'm 9th Generation Cdn on my fathers side, and 8th generation on my mothers).

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
That way I wouldn't be freezing my ass in winter wonderland and I would be closer to Jérôme...
and French wineries... :rolleyes:

Oh, BG... you're soooo sweet! :)

French wines and cuisine, if they didn't exist... :D

As for your ancestors, I think they had a very respectable nerve, didn't they? :cool:

Back on topic, I'll have my copy of my fave paper tomorrow, as I booked one of the reissues of last Wednesday's edition which was sold out everywhere way before midday. I'll scan a few cartoons and post them here asap. :cool:

[Nitro Express]

I have relatives who work in the high end resturant business. My cousin worked for Wolfgang Puck at one time. My uncle specializes in French/Italian cusine. I absolutely loved going to France/Italy with my uncles family. They are fluent in French and know the culture which makes being there even funner.

Americans make the mistake of judging France on Paris. I like a lot about Paris but face it, it can be a very rude place. Plus the religiouse right in our country seem to take offense at the French.

I remember having dinner in France with a person from Utah who did not drink because of theire religion and he was always bitching about how the French were trying to corrupt him with their wine. I told him some people in France don't drink either but the waiters were trying to do him a favor because if you don't eat something acidic with the French cheese sauces they ball up in your stomach and make life miserable. You deffinately don't want to wash some French food down with ice water! If you don't drink, the French take great pride in their fruit juices as well. Once the Mormon asshole discovered that he was happier.

Sure the French govt. are socialist, sure Paris has always been a city of lust but what major international city isn't? Shit. Las Vegas is way more loose than Paris is. Sure we had to save France in WWII. The United States seems to have forgotten that we would have never beat the British without French help. The French people gave us the statue of liberty. A good chuck of the United States was sold to us at a great price by France.

You get outside of Paris and the French people are pretty darn nice. At least I think so. Most French politicians are assholes but that's the norm everywhere except in the US where we don't have an ass for a president but a chimp that was trained by a Halliburton guy named Dick.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
What is going on now is nothing new....The reality is as soon as you beat one enemy there is always another to replace him.

Wrong....there IS something TOTALLY new about this.

When the Federal Government lacks a real enemy, they just MAKE ONE UP!

No I am not saying these Islamic terrorists are fictional....what I mean is, for the first time in history, our President (Chimpy) has declared war on the entire planet!

Hey, in WWI & WWII, we knew who our enemy was. Germany in both wars, and add Italy & Japan to the list for WWII.

For Korea, it was North Korea (on the face of it), and in Vietnam, there were no enemies of the U.S. to begin with (as the United States backed Ho Chi Minh with weapons and materiel), but the CIA successfully led the public of the U.S. to believe that we were enemies with North Vietnam by removing one million North Vietnamese FROM North Vietname, and moving them to South Vietnam.

So then, once they were down there, they cut off the sale of rice to China (which was a MAJOR customer for South Vietnam).

So you have a million people in South Vietnam who are homeless, and starving, and because they suddenly arrived, they upset the economy that was in place, causing food shortages, and then the CIA cuts off a major source of revenue for South Vietnam.

So then the transplanted NVs began to steal food and create trouble, and some of the South Vietnamese began to get upset as well.

The CIA came up with a new label for them: "Insurgents", also known as "Viet Cong".

So despite the fictitious 'enemy', they were still located in South Vietnam.


Nowadays, the 'terrorists' have no home base. This gives Chimpy and his cretins the theoretical excuse that they can invade ANY country on Earth. All they have to do is claim that "terrorists" are given safe harbor, and next thing ya know there are U.S. soldiers landing on their shores.


We once had real enemies.

Now they are ghosts....ready to be called upon at a moment's notice when we need an excuse to go to war. Chimpy can just have some of his CIA goons go blow some people up, and then Chimpy can blame it on "terrorists".

Same as with 9/11. They continue to claim that 19 "terrorists" hijacked planes, blah, blah woof, woof, yet it was soon discovered that at least 5 of those "terrorists" who were on those planes were still alive and well and living in other countries.

Yet Chimpy and his bunch of genocidal maniacs contiue to claim TO THIS DAY that all of these 19 "terrorists" WERE on the airplanes that crashed.

They continue to lie, even when the facts show the truth is the opposite of what they are claiming.

This is a tactic used by retarded people and/or terrorists. Deny the truth.

So either Warham, 4moreyears & BBB are retards, or terrorists, as they use that same tactic in this forum.


What a fucked up administration.

Chimpy needs to.....be removed from office.

CHIMPEACHMENT NOW!!!
:mad:

[Warham]

You use the same line in every post, fool.

'Chimpeachment!'

:rolleyes:

Can we get down to any lower of a common denominator than that? You sound like a FORD-wannabe. Actually, most of you liberals here ride his coattails. Come up with a new act.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

Originally posted by Nitro Express
Sure the French govt. are socialist

:eek: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh! :eek:

Nitro, I really dig all of your post, but this part... Arrrgh!

The French govt has been right wing since May 2002. The last two candidates were Chirac - more of a capitalist than him, you die - and Le Pen(dre) - if you add "dre to his name, it means "hang him" - who is a mere fascist.
We've had to endure the most right-wing policy since Vichy, you know, the Occupation, Pétain... No joke: these days we're almost as far from socialism as we can be in the US... So, please. ;)

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... Were any of your ancestors "Genereux" by any chance? If so, we may be related! (I'm 9th Generation Cdn on my fathers side, and 8th generation on my mothers).

Althoudh I am very generous (Généreux = French for a generous male) :p ...
It is not my last name but I would have to check if somewhere, they could have mixed...

I know my ancestors originated from Normandie... wich is where most of the French population came from.



Hey, truely I admire the fact that you seem to get along with everybody... Muslims included.
I also get along pretty much everywhere (work, class, important functions etc...)
but I guess my heart has its limits when it comes to being FRIENDS! :(

[Angel]

That's a shame. My best friend's in-laws are Syrian. (Actually, Palestinian) They are some of the nicest, best-mannered people I know.

and yes, I know Genereux is generous... my parents must have wanted me to be a stripper or something, imagine naming your child Angel Generous? ;)

[Angel]

Originally posted by blonddgirl777
I know my ancestors originated from Normandie... wich is where most of the French population came from.

Probably not related then, mine came from Limousin

[blonddgirl777]

Originally posted by Angel
... I know Genereux is generous... my parents must have wanted me to be a stripper or something, imagine naming your child Angel Generous? ;)

L.O.L.
And if you where... a stripper, you would have to change your name for something like: Karen Smith... :p

[flatbroke]

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/156837.php (http://)

I'm just glad that Scott Adams from Dilbert, or Gary Tredaeu from Doonsberry had the good sense not to say something immoral about Muhammad in their cartoon strips...

[Jérôme Frenchise]

http://www.imedias.biz/images/charliehebdocarr.jpg

This is last Wednesday's front page. Muhammad, "overwhelmed by fundamentalists", says: "How hard it is to be worshipped by cunts!"

Here's another cartoon from the same issue. There are dozens more.

[Nickdfresh]

Now that's funny...:D

[singerman]

Originally posted by flatbroke
What I wish the Danish Prime Minister had said:

Good news for all you Western Muslims who feel like you're under persecution for your faith - particularly those holding signs that say something like "kill anyone who denies that Islam is the religion of peace." It turns out that you don't have to put up with all the stress and strain of changing your host country into a Muslim country after all.

It seems that there are already places in the world called "Muslim Lands." You've heard this term before, and probably used it in a sentence. For example, "you infidels have no business being in our peaceful Muslim lands."

Too much press freedom keeping you up at night? Not a problem in Syria, where you'll sleep like a baby.

Someone hurt your feelings by wishing you a Merry Christmas? Folks like that go headless in Saudi Arabia.

Teenage daughter picking out the wrong boyfriend? Just take her to Iran and pick out a rock.

Of course, if you'd prefer to stay here and enjoy the robust economies, political rights, intellectual liberties, freedom of expression, civil protections, and the benefits of open and accountable government that Judeo-Christian societies offer, then you might consider redirecting your energy into encouraging the Islamic world to adopt these principles as well.

Who knows, maybe someday Muslim countries might actually become places where Muslims want to live

wow!!!....totally spot on! great post!

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by singerman
Bin laden was a 'freedom fighter' when he worked for the CIA against the russians, he wasnt the international terrorist as he is known now

I'm sure the Russians viewed him as freedom fighter and not a terrorist!

"Look at our brave Russian sons coming back without any legs thanks to that brave freedom fighter Bin Laden".

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Any Muslim I've ever met personally has been nothing but decent and respectful...

driving a jagdtiger usually has that effect

[singerman]

Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
I'm sure the Russians viewed him as freedom fighter and not a terrorist!

"Look at our brave Russian sons coming back without any legs thanks to that brave freedom fighter Bin Laden".

As i said, he wasnt an international terrorist when he was in Afganistan,he was fighting agaisnt the russians to stop them invading...oh yes forgot to mention...he was also a regular at Arsenal FC matches on a saturday (when he wasnt busy blowing the russian armys legs off!) lol

[FORD]

Originally posted by singerman
As i said, he wasnt an international terrorist when he was in Afganistan,he was fighting agaisnt the russians to stop them invading...oh yes forgot to mention...he was also a regular at Arsenal FC matches on a saturday (when he wasnt busy blowing the russian armys legs off!) lol

Well, that explains how the post game riots got started in soccer stadiums. Damn terrorists ;)

[singerman]

Originally posted by FORD
Well, that explains how the post game riots got started in soccer stadiums. Damn terrorists ;)


Originally posted by FORD
Well, that explains how the post game riots got started in soccer stadiums. Damn terrorists ;)

LOL ....love it!

[flatbroke]

The Iranian embassy in Germany has demanded a written apology from a Berlin newspaper that printed a cartoon of Iranian soccer players dressed as suicide bombers and threatened legal action if none is forthcoming.

I only hope that Calvin and Hobbs, and Marmaduke decide to show a little more respect...


http://clarityandresolve.com/archives/2006/02/iran_seething_o.php (http://)

[Nickdfresh]

Well, this cartoon is a little closer to the mark...

[Wawazat]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1588718

TEHRAN, Iran Feb 7, 2006 (AP)— A prominent Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hamshahri, which is among the top five of Iran's mass circulation papers, made clear the contest is a reaction to European newspapers' publication of Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, which have led to demonstrations, boycotts and attacks on European embassies across the Islamic world.


let the games commence :D

[ashstralia]

Originally posted by FORD
Well, that explains how the post game riots got started in soccer stadiums. Damn terrorists ;)

hehehehehehehe.....:)

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Wawazat
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1588718

TEHRAN, Iran Feb 7, 2006 (AP)— A prominent Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the principle of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hamshahri, which is among the top five of Iran's mass circulation papers, made clear the contest is a reaction to European newspapers' publication of Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, which have led to demonstrations, boycotts and attacks on European embassies across the Islamic world.


let the games commence :D

I think the DUMP is in the front running to win...

[jhale667]

Ok, so I'm reading Yahoo! News....and the OIC (Organization of the Islamic Conference) is pushing the UN to adopt "Anti-Blasphemy" tenants into the human rights act? WTF? How can a culture with such an ABYSMAL record on human rights and their treatment of women even be allowed to SPEAK on human rights?!?!?!?! :mad:

[jhale667]

....And WTF does RELIGION have to do with HUMAN RIGHTS?!?!?!? :mad:

[Angel]

In Canada, it falls under the "Charter of Rights & Freedoms": http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/charter/charter.text.html


FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOMS.
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

EQUALITY BEFORE AND UNDER LAW AND EQUAL PROTECTION AND BENEFIT OF LAW / Affirmative action programs.
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.

So, in Canada at least, Religion has a LOT to do with Human Rights.

[jhale667]

Well, then...by that logic the cartoons are fine. It's Freedom of expression....or is that only for them?

[jhale667]

And btw, that allows freedom OF religion, it doesn't state that they can foist their idiotic rule against artistic depictions (of anyone) on the rest of the world. They SO need to get over themselves....

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by singerman
As i said, he wasnt an international terrorist when he was in Afganistan,he was fighting agaisnt the russians to stop them invading...oh yes forgot to mention...he was also a regular at Arsenal FC matches on a saturday (when he wasnt busy blowing the russian armys legs off!) lol

He was a terrorist then, same as he is now.

We're back to that old one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist argument again... which is almost as much fun as the eternal "I hate Democrats/I hate Republicans" game.

[Angel]

Originally posted by jhale667
And btw, that allows freedom OF religion, it doesn't state that they can foist their idiotic rule against artistic depictions (of anyone) on the rest of the world. They SO need to get over themselves....

Freedom OF, and protection against discrimination BECAUSE of religion.

Most Canadians feel that there needs to be a balance between freedom of the press and showing sensitivity to the various faiths that comprise our country.

[jhale667]

'Sensitivity' is another discussion entirely. They're demanding censorship tailored to their religious beliefs, which should not be tolerated under ANY circumstances, much less over a carton.

[Jérôme Frenchise]

As it will not be displayed, here's a repost of Charlie Hebdo's issue of Feb. 8 (backing up the Danish caricaturists).

http://blog.romainl.com/uploads/cahrlie_hebdo.jpg

Muhammad, "overwhelmed by fundamentalists", says: "How hard it is to be worshipped by cunts!"

And here's another cartoon, after Magritte's famous work entitled "This is not a pipe", though it actually represented a pipe...

"This is not a caricature of the prophet." :D