Living with illegals?

[BigBadBrian]

Living with illegals?
Mar 27, 2006
by Michael Barone


This week, the Senate is expected to take up immigration, almost 20 years after passage of the last major immigration bill. Immigration is in some ways an American success story -- half of all immigrants in the world head to the United States -- but also a story of failure -- we have an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants within our borders.

The House in December passed a border security bill. The Senate Judiciary Committee spent three weeks hashing over border security and illegal immigrant and guest workers' provisions.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist nudged it toward decision by announcing that he’d bring up a border security bill this Monday. Judiciary seems headed to a bipartisan majority on all three issues, which could go to the floor.


So the Senate may take action -- after which its bill would have to be reconciled with the House bill in conference, and then the result would have to be jammed through a House where a lot of Republicans hate anything that smacks of amnesty. George W. Bush has set out principles -- border security, a path to legalization, a guest-worker program -- and seems likely to sign anything Congress can pass.

The immigration issue shows us to be an attractive country with a vibrant economy -- and a government that seems on the verge of breakdown. Why can’t we protect our borders, many immigration critics, justifiably, ask. Increased enforcement in El Paso, Texas, and the fence built south of San Diego have reduced illegal crossings at those chokepoints.

But thousands of illegal immigrants walk across the border in the Arizona desert -- and some of them die of thirst in the sun. Some Republicans want to build a fence along the whole 2,000-plus mile border. But that would be very expensive, and it’s not clear that people wouldn’t be able to scale the fence in unpopulated areas -- and most of the border is unpopulated. The United States was able to control its borders when most immigrants arrived by ship and could be processed at places like Ellis Island. Now, it seems that immigrants can keep coming by land illegally, unless we can establish a way that they can come legally. Then at least we’d be able to keep tabs on them for homeland security purposes.

The 1986 immigration law included an amnesty on illegals and sanctions on employers of illegals. But the sanctions have proved toothless, since employers can escape liability by accepting pieces of paper that can easily be forged. The obvious solution is some kind of electronic verification. Visa and MasterCard transfer billions of dollars a day via plastic cards, with high reliability. But government has trouble with information technology: The FBI and the Federal Aviation Administration both had to abandon massive IT programs as unfeasible, despite years of effort and millions of dollars. The answer most likely is subcontracting the verification technology to the private sector.

Capitalism "laughs at frontiers,” wrote the French historian Fernand Braudel. The dynamic American economy has attracted illegal immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries to work in construction, hotels and restaurants, meatpacking, gardening and landscaping. We talk as if our immigration laws can structure our labor markets, but in practice, Congress’ task now is to get our immigration laws working in tandem with labor markets. We are not going to expel a population the size of the state of Ohio. But we shouldn’t simply acquiesce to violation of the law. We need to legalize and regularize the flow of immigrants the labor market demands.

And we need to encourage their assimilation into America. Opponents of immigration often express distaste with the growing Latino neighborhoods increasingly visible across the country. One hundred years ago, Henry James expressed similar distaste when he visited the Lower East Side of New York. But in time, those immigrants or their children were assimilated, and today their descendants seem as American as anyone else.

Assimilation then had the wholehearted support of leaders like Theodore Roosevelt; today, many of our elites have transnational (Samuel Huntington’s word) attitudes and regard assimilation as oppressive. The vast majority of ordinary Americans have better sense.

Congress, while rewriting the immigration law, ought to take care to encourage assimilation -- Americanization, as TR put it. For immigration is not just a challenge, it’s an opportunity.

Michael Barone is the Senior Writer for U.S. News & World Report.
Link (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/michaelbarone/2006/03/27/191331.html)

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Well I guess it is America's turn to fall. Mexico can't take care of it's own so how convenient that the American Government thinks that we can take on their problems. We are pissing away all of our energy and resources on Iraq whom are about to start a civil war. And we are not lifting a finger to curtail the invasion coming from Mexico.

[Nitro Express]

The unchecked illegal immigration will cause a civil war of our own if we don't get things under control.

You already see the seeds of it in places like Arizona where they want to take the federal income tax from AZ citizens to pay for additional border security that the federal govt. doesn't.

You will start to see more hate crimes against Hispanics and that will spew more hate from their side.

What we see going on in Iraq right now could be the US soon but instead of shite and sunni Muslims it's hispanics vs. non hispanics in a very nasty territory grab at the local level as an impotent Federal Govt. falls apart even more.

Seriousely, this illegal immigration crisis could cause more shit than the fundamental Islamic movement. It could lead to a tottaly lawless civil war between vigilante groups and illegal alliens turning parts of the US into Somolia gangland type battles.

The Fedral Govt. is falling apart as I speak and it has done nothing to eliminate any kind of immigration problem or terrorism problem. It's only made them worse.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Well I guess it is America's turn to fall. Mexico can't take care of it's own so how convenient that the American Government thinks that we can take on their problems. We are pissing away all of our energy and resources on Iraq whom are about to start a civil war. And we are not lifting a finger to curtail the invasion coming from Mexico.

Yeah, but don't act as if we didn't take advantage of many of their problems for many years...

[DrMaddVibe]

FIRE THE LASERS!!!!

[ULTRAMAN VH]

"WE" Nick are you speaking French or do you have a mouse in your pocket. Yes the Government and big business took advantage of Vincente Fox's problems by allowing them to flow into this country illegally. The American people, primarily the middle class did not allow or want this to happen.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
"WE" Nick are you speaking French or do you have a mouse in your pocket. Yes the Government and big business took advantage of Vincente Fox's problems by allowing them to flow into this country illegally.

Golly! I don't speak much French actually, and I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to a mouse. BTW, do you still eat 'Freedom' Fries still? Are the French your enemy for some reason? Don't tell the French soldiers in Afghanistan that. But, these "problems" began long before FOX was President...

BTW, why do they come to America? Who hires them in this insidious plot?


The American people, primarily the middle class did not allow or want this to happen.

But yet it does... Funny, isn't it? Hmmmm...I wonder why that is? Everyone in the middle class wants it to "stop," but yet it never does...

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Okay Riddler, why doe's it not stop

[Nickdfresh]

Now you're speaking French...

[ULTRAMAN VH]

LOL

[Hardrock69]

"MOTHER! MAKE IT STOP!!!"

http://www.horrorcongal.dreamstation.com/pix/exorcist-possession.jpg

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Well the tool Mayor gets up on his podium in front of the Illegal Aliens and their tool supporters and says he has signed a bill in their favor. They yell and cheer with glee. The Tool Mayor then tells the protesters that they need to return to school and their daily lives. What doe's he get in response. A huge chant of HELL NO WE WON'T GO, followed by violence and a police response. Now that the violence has set in, what's next????.

[Hardrock69]

I prefer the House bill on Immigration Reform, that would immediately cause all Illegal Aliens to be classified as Felons, and would require them to be arrested and deported.

The United States gets along just fine without their asses.

All these pussies keep whining about how it might be detrimental to our economy if we deported them.

They have no factual evidence to back up that claim.

Not ALL Mexicans in this country are here illegally.

The only business and economic leaders who are crying about this are the ones who stand to lose money because they can no longer have their illegal laborers.

Fuck those cocksuckers.

They are breaking the law by hiring them, so they have to suffer the fucking consequences.

:mad:

[jhale667]

...LA's mayor IS a tool, but 90% of those kids marching here have NO idea what they're marching for...it's just an excuse to skip school...some of the News interviews with these kids have been PATHETIC...they're completely clueless.

[Hardrock69]

I have often said that in many cases like this, people riot just because it gives them an excuse to tear shit up, not because they even know or care what the reasons for the unrest are in the first place.

As you said...they are clueless.

[Mr Grimsdale]

flappo found this and for once it's relevant
http://www.riotvideo.com/videodir/955161225583351679.wmv

[Nickdfresh]

Here's the cuntroversial article originally posted by Big Bad Brian:

Mexican illegals vs. American voters
By Tony Blankley
March 29, 2006


It is lucky America has more than two centuries of mostly calm experience with self-government. We are going to need to fall back on that invaluable patrimony if the immigration debate continues as it has started this season. The Senate is attempting to legislate into the teeth of the will of the American public. The Senate Judiciary Committeemen — and probably a majority of the Senate — are convinced that they know that the American people don't know what is best for them.

National polling data could not be more emphatic — and has been so for decades. Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration. A Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses). Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.

An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.

An IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.

Yet, according to a National Journal survey of Congress, 73 percent of Republican and 77 percent of Democratic congressmen and senators say they would support guest-worker legislation.

I commend to all those presumptuous senators and congressmen the sardonic and wise words of Edmund Burke in his 1792 letter to Sir Hercules Langrishe: "No man will assert seriously, that when people are of a turbulent spirit, the best way to keep them in order is to furnish them with something substantial to complain of." The senators should remember that they are American senators, not Roman proconsuls. Nor is the chairman of the Judiciary Committee some latter-day Praetor Maximus.

But if they would be dictators, it would be nice if they could at least be wise (until such time as the people can electorally forcefully project with a violent pedal thrust their regrettable backsides out of town). It was gut-wrenching (which in my case is a substantial event) to watch the senators prattle on in their idle ignorance concerning the manifold economic benefits that will accrue to the body politic if we can just cram a few million more uneducated illegals into the country. ( I guess ignorance loves company.) Beyond the Senate last week, in a remarkable example of intellectual integrity (in the face of the editorial positions of their newspapers) the chief economic columnists for the New York Times and The Washington Post — Paul Krugman and Robert Samuelson, respectively — laid out the sad facts regarding the economics of the matter. Senators, congressmen and Mr. President, please take note.

Regarding the Senate's and the president's guest-worker proposals, The Post's Robert Samuelson writes: "Gosh, they're all bad ideas ... We'd be importing poverty. This isn't because these immigrants aren't hardworking, many are. Nor is it because they don't assimilate, many do. But they generally don't go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished ... [It] is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico ... The most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers ? Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits ... [Moreover], [i]t's a myth that the U.S. economy 'needs' more poor immigrants.

"The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force." (For all Mr. Samuelson's supporting statistics, see his Washington Post column of March 22, from which this is taken.) Likewise, a few days later, the very liberal and often partisan Paul Krugman of the New York Times courageously wrote : "Unfortunately, low-skill immigrants don't pay enough taxes to cover the cost of the [government] benefits they receive ? As the Swiss writer Max Frisch wrote about his own country's experience with immigration, 'We wanted a labor force, but human beings came.' " Mr. Krugman also observed — citing a leading Harvard study — "that U.S. high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration. That's why it's intellectually dishonest to say, as President Bush does, that immigrants 'do jobs that Americans will not do.' The willingness of Americans to do a job depends on how much that job pays — and the reason some jobs pay too little to attract native-born Americans is competition from poorly paid immigrants." Thusly do the two leading economic writers for the nation's two leading liberal newspapers summarily debunk the economic underpinning of the president's and the Senate's immigration proposals.

Under such circumstances, advocates of guest-worker/amnesty bills will find it frustratingly hard to defend their arrogant plans by their preferred tactic of slandering those who disagree with them as racist, nativist and xenophobic.

When the slandered ones include not only The Washington Post and the New York Times, but about 70 percent of the public, it is not only bad manners, but bad politics.

The public demand to protect our borders will triumph sooner or later. And, the more brazen the opposing politicians, the sooner will come the triumph.

So legislate on, you proud and foolish senators — and hasten your political demise.

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060328-102545-2371r.htm

[jcook11]

What cracks me up is are that the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T LIKE THE WORD ILLEGAL! If someone was employing them and didn't give them their paycheck I'm sure you would here them say that that is ILLEGAL.

How about this I think I am entitled to a new porchse and I go and take it's not ILLEGAL because in my mind i'm entitled to it

[FORD]

Originally posted by jcook11
What cracks me up is are that the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DON'T LIKE THE WORD ILLEGAL! If someone was employing them and didn't give them their paycheck I'm sure you would here them say that that is ILLEGAL.

How about this I think I am entitled to a new porchse and I go and take it's not ILLEGAL because in my mind i'm entitled to it

Ok, but I thought you were trying to stay out of jail? :confused:

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Top notch article by Tony Blankley. For once, someone in the media has common sense.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Top notch article by Tony Blankley. For once, someone in the media has common sense.

So your ideas of "common sense" are skinheads guarding the borders, and Moonies blabbing horseshit?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Top notch article by Tony Blankley. For once, someone in the media has common sense.

Shhhhh....

Don't tell hypocrite bitches 1 & 2 I reposted it, and intended to repost the rest of that thread here....

(you'd take away their entire argument)

[sisca]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
I prefer the House bill on Immigration Reform, that would immediately cause all Illegal Aliens to be classified as Felons, and would require them to be arrested and deported.

The United States gets along just fine without their asses.

All these pussies keep whining about how it might be detrimental to our economy if we deported them.

They have no factual evidence to back up that claim.

Not ALL Mexicans in this country are here illegally.

The only business and economic leaders who are crying about this are the ones who stand to lose money because they can no longer have their illegal laborers.

Fuck those cocksuckers.

They are breaking the law by hiring them, so they have to suffer the fucking consequences.

:mad: well done, hardrock! couldnt have said it better myself.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Ford , I in no way support Skinheads or their agenda. I do support what the Minute Men are doing. If what you say is true, oh well. Their will always be a bad apple in the tree. Do you have more proof, other than this picture?? That photo could have been taken at your last birthday party. For the most part the Minute Men are fed up with the elites who are more concerned with votes and big business than the welfare of legal American citizens. Again they are not vigilantes like The President, the far left media and certain other elite's make them out to be. The Minute Men do not engage illegal aliens crossing the border. They do reconnaissance and point out the location of illegals crossing the borders and report it to the border patrol officers. I don't see a problem with that.

[Nickdfresh]

Maybe when shit op-ed pieces actually offer a real solution to immigration, then I'll tout this stuff as useful. But most of what is posted here is knee-jerk populist bullshit. There is no way that you can tell me that the sudden disappearance of several hundred thousand workers is not going to adversely affect the US economy...

And just proclaiming them felons is supposed to do what? Oh yeah, and by proclaiming them felons means they must go to prison. US prisons. You have any idea what that's going to cost??? You're just driving it further underground...

Again, I ask "who is hiring them?" It's sort of like illegal drugs, everybody supposedly hates nose-candy, yet this nation snorts coke in record piles... There obviously a driving motivation for them to come here that is not being acknowledged. There is also a powerful network of Hispanic American citizens that IS influential. However, the sovereignty of this nation is in danger...

The things that gaul me the most is the notion that illegals are ONLY taking jobs that Americans don't what. This is clearly not totally true, although there are agricultural jobs no one whats, there are many construction and other and semi/skilled trades that illegals are inhabiting, and it's becoming more frequent.. And, as I've posted in the past, there are Mexican drug cartels that have infiltrated their Army/local polcia and several instances of Mexican Soldiers armed with assault rifles and driving official Humvees across our border to retrieve drugs while our outgunned police were forced/intimidated into simply watching! That in my mind is the shit that has to stop most of all. And workers do need to be categorized as American businesses are pressed to not hire illegals and drive down wages for Americans....

[Nickdfresh]

"They took our jobs!" (http://www.gofish.com/userVideoPlayer.gfp?gfid=30-1015163)

UhuhuhuhuhUHHUhhUhUHUhH!

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Well said Nick, spoken like a true Independent!!!!

[Nickdfresh]

**Nick bows**

Thank you...