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BigBadBrian
03-30-2006, 04:22 PM
Opinions split over red, white and green
Mexican flags divisive topic as principal shows his support for student protests


By JENNIFER RADCLIFFE
Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Reagan High School Principal Robert Pambello was ordered to remove a Mexican flag Wednesday morning that he had hoisted below the U.S. and Texas flags that typically fly in front of his school — a symbol he agreed to fly to show support for his predominantly Hispanic student body.

At nearby Hamilton Middle School, a child was asked to wipe off Mexican and U.S. flags painted on his face. Hundreds of other students carried Mexican flags during walkouts Wednesday — acts of protest that they vow to continue until Congress rejects legislation that would further restrict immigration.

"There's no other way to be heard ... It's not the best way or the right way, but it's our way," Reagan freshman Jose Lopez, 14, said of the effort.

The Mexican flag has become a lightning rod in the immigration debate that's consumed the city and the nation this week. Students say the flag represents their pride in the contributions Mexicans make to this country. Critics, though, said watching young Hispanics in the streets with the red, green and white flags is more than they can stand. These youngsters are in the United States and should — at the least — carry the U.S. flag, they argue.

"The whole thing just makes my blood boil," said Bruce R. Wing, a 52-year-old Missouri City resident. "I want them all out of here."

Wing said the Houston Independent School District should fire Pambello.

HISD leaders said no decision has been made about possible discipline against the principal, who declined interview requests Wednesday.

"It is appropriate to fly the flags of the United States and Texas over schools in the Houston Independent School District, since we are a public entity of the state," HISD spokesman Terry Abbott said. "It would not be appropriate for the school district to advocate allegiance to a country other than the United States. Therefore, it is not appropriate to permit use of school district flagpoles for the purpose of flying flags representing other countries."

Raul Ramos, a professor of Texas history at the University of Houston, said most Mexican-Americans see no contradiction in flying the Mexican flag alongside those of Texas and the United States.

"Most students at Reagan High School have relatives or ancestors from Mexico," said Ramos. "The flag represents Mexican heritage as much if not more than citizenship."


Historical research
Ramos noted that there is a long Texas history of both flags flying. He has found Mexican and Texas flags interwined during Mexican Independence Day parades in such cities as Laredo, El Paso and San Antonio dating to 1910.

Calling HISD's decision a reaction to cultural anxiety, he said, "it's important for the school to make efforts to identify with the student body," not vice versa. "The school, after all, reflects the ethnic identity of the students sitting in its classrooms."

Nearly 60 percent of HISD's 200,000-plus students are Hispanic.


Plan to raise flag today
Some Reagan students said they will try to raise a Mexican flag again today. They said they want it to fly at least above the Texas flag on the pole.

"Just because you're in the country doesn't mean you can't show your culture," said Lewis Ramirez, 16, a sophomore at Reagan High.

Carina Muriel, a junior at Channelview High School, said she doesn't think it's appropriate for her rallying classmates to carry Mexican flags.

"If they really want to show devotion, they should be carrying U.S. flags," she said.

Muriel said students at her school are walking out, wearing white shirts and carrying Mexican flags.

"More than half don't even know why they are doing it," she said. "It seems to me that they just want to be part of something big, but they don't know what it is. They've never before cared about politics, or what was going on with our government. The reason they care now is because it gives them a chance to cut class."

Jose Cantu, 18, a junior at Reagan, said he read the 54-page bill Wednesday so he could understand why he's protesting. "It got confusing," he said. "So I wanted to see the whole thing."


Districts ponder problem
School districts, meanwhile, are trying to figure out how to allow children to learn about the issues and express their feelings while also disciplining those who continue to walk out of class in protest.

"I so appreciate the fact that young people are getting excited about what's going on in their country. What could be more inspiring than seeing children wanting to have their voices heard in their political process?" said HISD trustee Natasha M. Kamrani, who represents the neighborhoods that feed into Reagan. "But there's a way to protest and then there's a way to organize to make change."

To accomplish that, students need to be in class learning and preparing for college, she said.

About 300 students from North Shore and Galena Park high schools staged protests outside their schools Wednesday — the first organized protests to be held in that district.

"It picked up today for us," said Staci Stanfield, spokeswoman for the Galena Park District. "I think they're watching it. We've seen kind of copycat protests that have cropped up throughout the entire country and area."


Baytown march
In Baytown, about 50 students — some waving Mexican flags — skipped class to march from one of the town's two high schools, Robert E. Lee, where nearly half of the 2,511 students are Hispanic.

About 200 Alvin High School students participated in an early-morning march. Though most of the students had returned to school by 10 a.m., a group of about 40 students made a 10-mile trek to Pearland High School, Alvin ISD spokeswoman Shirley Brothers said.

Students demanded to meet with Alvin Mayor Andy Reyes, who eventually agreed to meet with a delegation of students today.

Oscar DeLeon, a parent of three children in the protest, left work to watch the march.

"I support them. They've got their rights," he said.

Alvin High School Principal Kevon Wells, who also watched the group, said the students will be treated as truants. Punishment can include after-school detention and being assigned to an alternative school campus, he said.


Text messages spread word
Students said the makeshift rally was publicized through text messages.

A text message sent by an HISD student Wednesday encouraged more walkouts.

Part of it read: "Do ANY of you know how much money our schools make for each student that attends everyday ... Imagine how much money they would lose if we didn't go."

HISD Superintendent Abelardo Saavedra has vowed harsher punishments for students who continue to miss classes to protest.

The 50 Marshall Middle School students who made their way to City Hall on Wednesday, for example, could be suspended for up to three days, officials said.

The district had to spend $5,500 Tuesday to transport 30 busloads of students from City Hall back to Austin, Davis and Sam Houston high schools.

"Any student who engages in this kind of activity today can be suspended for up to three days, and may be removed from school outright," Abbott said. "There also are severe academic consequences."

Chronicle reporters Todd Ackerman, Alexis Grant, Cindy Horswell and Richard Stewart contributed to this report.

KHOU Channel 11 also contributed to this report.

Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3758105.html)

ULTRAMAN VH
03-31-2006, 01:28 PM
Only in America can you get away with shit like this. If these tools pulled this protest crap in Russia or a middle eastern country they would be imprisoned or killed. When Saddam was in power you would be tortured for losing an athletic event. How foolish of me, these protests would not even come to fruition, because if you crossed their borders, including Mexico's illegally, you would probably never be seen again.

Guitar Shark
03-31-2006, 01:32 PM
I agree that the principal shouldn't fly the Mexican flag at the school. However, I don't see why the students or other members of the community shouldn't be allowed to display the Mexican flag themselves.

Roy Munson
03-31-2006, 01:48 PM
This situation is getting out of hend and WILL get uglier before it gets any better. There is NO EXCUSE for flying a Mex flag at any American school.

Peeps better start realizing that this may very well be a turning point with this imigration issue. We are in serious trouble if we continue to let this shit "slide." You think these illegals are draining our system now? Wait until we have some sort of major recession. The lowest common denomenator of the workforce, which includes many of these people, would be laid off in massive amounts resulting in a bleeding of our system like never before.

Borders need to be closed and, ideally, I would love to see most of the illegals shipped back to Fuxico. I know that's not realistic but I would support it. The problem is that there are so many that it's pretty much an impossiblity at this point. What to do? I'm not quite sure...the whole "worker program" seems like a joke to me. At this point I am so fucking upset with our government...republicans and democrats...that I am probably going to change my voter registration to independent.

Who really let it get this far...fucking assholes in Washington.

FORD
03-31-2006, 01:50 PM
What's more offensive at a high school? A Mexican flag flying, or the school itself being named after a warmongering bastard?

Roy Munson
03-31-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What's more offensive at a high school? A Mexican flag flying, or the school itself being named after a warmongering bastard?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

FORD
03-31-2006, 02:04 PM
http://acuf.org/images/headshots/reagan3.jpeg
Mr. Gorbachev.....put up this wall!

BigBadBrian
03-31-2006, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by FORD
http://acuf.org/images/headshots/reagan3.jpeg
Mr. Gorbachev.....put up this wall!

Different case entirely.

He didn't have a bunch of poverty-stricken illegals coming into his country sucking the economy dry of benefits, education, and healthcare.

Try again.

:gulp:

Guitar Shark
03-31-2006, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Different case entirely.

He didn't have a bunch of poverty-stricken illegals coming into his country sucking the economy dry of benefits, education, and healthcare.

Try again.

:gulp:

There is no question that the illegals impose significant costs on America. But, there is another side. Those same illegals are also filling certain labor needs that few "legal" Americans are willing to perform, at least not for the same rate of pay. Giving those jobs to Americans will significantly increase labor costs, which will be passed along to the consumer.

Nickdfresh
03-31-2006, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Different case entirely.

He didn't have a bunch of poverty-stricken illegals coming into his country sucking the economy dry of benefits, education, and healthcare.

Try again.

:gulp:

But yet, you eat the cheap lettuce they pick:)

jhale667
03-31-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But yet, you eat the cheap lettuce they pick:)

That reminds me of the joke "What do you get when you cross an illegal immigrant with an octopus?"

"I don't know, but it can pick a FUCKLOAD of lettuce!!" :D

Big Train
04-01-2006, 12:38 PM
Make sure you can see through the eyeholes clearly, before you head to the cross burning...

jhale667
04-01-2006, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Make sure you can see through the eyeholes clearly, before you head to the cross burning...

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! :lol:

Yeah, that's me dude...a regular multi-ethnic black/white supremacist....:D

I hate everybody!!!! :baaa:


Oh, my fucking sides....

I take it you didn't like the joke? Sorry...

Big Train
04-01-2006, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by jhale667


I take it you didn't like the joke? Sorry...

Likewise, You aren't "feeling" my sarcasm...

jhale667
04-01-2006, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Likewise, You aren't "feeling" my sarcasm...

Point taken. But do you think 100% of illegals in LA are actually productive members of society?

kentuckyklira
04-01-2006, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What's more offensive at a high school? A Mexican flag flying, or the school itself being named after a warmongering bastard? True, so true!

Switch84
04-01-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by jhale667
BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!! :lol:

Yeah, that's me dude...a regular multi-ethnic black/white supremacist....:D

I hate everybody!!!! :baaa:


Oh, my fucking sides....

I take it you didn't like the joke? Sorry...

:D I did! I get the sarcasm from BBB, too. Anyone that's against LAW BREAKING ILLEGALS are labelled as racists, regardless of their ethnicity, whatever.

There shouldn't be a waving of any flag (besides the American flag) at any American school.What the fuck, people? Are you so jelly-spined that you're afraid to stand up for your own country's laws? This political correctness will be the death of this nation. If motherfuckers don't want to respect our laws (and it's a fact that many immigrants do abide by them and enter LEGALLY), they should be shipped out, PERIOD. The law is the law, gosh DAMN IT! And 'fuck you' to the people using the "they're doing jobs Americans don't want" lame excuse. Americans will work in these jobs, but not for slave wages. Some of you act as if wanting good pay, benefits and safe working conditions is a disgrace.

FYI: If Mexico is so fucking great, WHY DON'T THEY STAY THERE?

FORD
04-01-2006, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
Some of you act as if wanting good pay, benefits and safe working conditions is a disgrace.



And the rest of you keep voting for the bastards who want to return America to the times when those things did not exist. :(

ULTRAMAN VH
04-01-2006, 04:27 PM
Oh! okay lets vote the Spendocrats back in, that will solve everything. Lets be real, until a third party comes in and sets the other two straight, the door will just keep revolving. Neither the Dems or the Republicans are for the people of this country. They are to busy selling it away. And Switch84 is correct about PC killing this country.

Redballjets88
04-01-2006, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by FORD
What's more offensive at a high school? A Mexican flag flying, or the school itself being named after a warmongering bastard?

can you please stay on topic?

Big Train
04-01-2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by jhale667
Point taken. But do you think 100% of illegals in LA are actually productive members of society?

Not at all, nor am I implying that. However, I think an even less % of citizens are productive members of society.

Redballjets88
04-01-2006, 04:58 PM
i think that we should let whooever is here stay, as like an act of kindness, and then make a huge ass wall on the borders

Big Train
04-01-2006, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Switch84
:D I did! I get the sarcasm from BBB, too. Anyone that's against LAW BREAKING ILLEGALS are labelled as racists, regardless of their ethnicity, whatever.

There shouldn't be a waving of any flag (besides the American flag) at any American school.What the fuck, people? Are you so jelly-spined that you're afraid to stand up for your own country's laws? This political correctness will be the death of this nation. If motherfuckers don't want to respect our laws (and it's a fact that many immigrants do abide by them and enter LEGALLY), they should be shipped out, PERIOD. The law is the law, gosh DAMN IT! And 'fuck you' to the people using the "they're doing jobs Americans don't want" lame excuse. Americans will work in these jobs, but not for slave wages. Some of you act as if wanting good pay, benefits and safe working conditions is a disgrace.

FYI: If Mexico is so fucking great, WHY DON'T THEY STAY THERE?

It's racist, when:

A. You focus on a single race of people, as opposed to immigrants as a whole (let's include Asians, who are a HUGE %, and Eastern Europeans as well-there are a lot of Germans in the Shelter my wife works at-in EAST LA). There are a lot of Mexicans involved in this debate yes, but to limit a government debate on core laws to just them is racist.

B. They don't respect our laws, because WE never did. Let's start this debate with ourselves. We, the American people, made a back door deal with these people and now we are changing it after 40 years of doing business one way. Which is fine, I'm not saying the laws ALREADY on the books aren't fair or just, but let's not pretend the way the laws are written and they way they are used , on both sides, haven't benefitted both parties.

C. The fact is they are doing jobs nobody would for the very reasons you list. Gardener, Maid, Fast food workers are not and never were jobs that would provide "good pay, benefits and safe working conditions". The mexicans aren't stealing those types of jobs, they are allowing white america to go to those jobs and work longer at them, knowing their homes and children are cared for. Nothing lame about that. If you wanted to argue outsourcing, or the Asian, Indian and Europeans getting those white collar jobs, thats another story altogether.

FYI..Mexico COULD be great, but it isn't because of their government, which is why they come here.

ULTRAMAN VH
04-01-2006, 07:25 PM
B. WE the American people did not do anything. Our fat bloated, greedy politician run Government made these deals.