Latest Figures: Cheney & Haliburton Getting Rich From Iraq

[Hardrock69]

Evelyn Pringle: 'Cheney and Halliburton hold title — top earners in Iraq'
Posted on Friday, March 31 @ 10:12:06 EST

There has never been an investigation into Cheney's involvement in awarding Halliburton no-bid contracts making the company the number one war profiteerer in Iraq. Apparently people have forgotten about the March 5, 2003 e-mail between the Army Corps of Engineers and a Pentagon employee that stated the contract "has been coordinated w VP's office."

People also seem to have forgotten that Cheney continues to own stock in Halliburton. Stock that has risen in leaps and bounds since its former CEO moved into the White House and developed the most prolific war profiteering scheme of all time.

A study released in June 2005, originating from the Defense Contract Audit Agency (DCAA), revealed that overall, Halliburton had received roughly 52% of the $25.4 billion that has been paid out to private contractors since the war in Iraq began.

Halliburton was the top profiteer when it came to funds belonging to the citizens of Iraq as well. A March 18, 2004 audit report by the Department of Defense Office of the Inspector General, titled, “Acquisition: Contracts Awarded by the Coalition Provisional Authority by the Defense Contracting Command-Washington," determined that the CPA and its predecessor, the Office for Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance, had circumvented federal contracting procedures since the early days of the occupation.



The audit found that federal procurement rules were not followed in 22 of 24 contracts awarded by the Defense Contracting Command and that defense department personnel conducted “inadequate surveillance” on more than half of the contracts; did not “perform or support price reasonableness determinations;” and allowed activity that was “out-of-scope” of the original contracts.

An analysis of the data released in August 2004, showed the CPA had awarded 85% of the contracts to US and UK firms and that Iraqi companies received a mere 2% of the contracts paid for with Iraqi funds. Halliburton received 60% of all contracts paid for with Iraqi money.

Halliburton's contracts are "cost-plus" deals and according to Peter Singer, author of "Corporate Warrior," when the government gives out cost-plus contracts, "essentially it rewards firms when they add to costs rather than rewarding them for cost savings," he said.

Halliburton employees told Knight Ridder about a scam where the company ran up costs by having employees drive empty trucks back and forth across Iraq.

"There was one time we ran 28 trucks, one trailer had one pallet (a trailer can hold as many as 26 four-foot square pallets) and the rest of them were empty," said David Wilson, who was the convoy commander on more than 100 runs. Four other drivers who were with Wilson confirmed his account for Knight Ridder.

Halliburton's contract allows the company to pass on the cost of the truck runs and add between 1% and 3% for profit. "Trucking experts estimate that each round trip costs taxpayers thousands of dollars," according to Knight Ridder.

But if you listen to Cheney, people are just picking on Halliburton because they don't like him. Not so. I would be mad at any company that billed me for driving empty trucks across the desert, but it just so happens that Halliburton is the company at the wheel.

Other whistleblowers described how employees were instructed to abandon or torch new trucks, worth $80,000, if they got a flat tire or had some other minor problems, so that Halliburton could purchase new trucks with taxpayer dollars.

People must have been picking on Halliburton long before Iraq because under Cheney's watch, the company was caught ripping of the government time and time again. In 1997, the GAO caught the company charging $85.98 for a sheet of plywood that only cost $14.06. In a 2000 follow-up investigation, Halliburton was caught billing tax payers for cleaning the exact same office space 4 times a day.

So what happened as a result of these expensive drawn-out investigations? In 2002 Halliburton paid a $2 million fine for defrauding the government. The investigation probably cost more than $2 mill.

In January 2004, two Halliburton employees were caught red-handed taking $6.3 million in kickbacks from a subcontractor in Iraq. The company gave the $6.3 million back, claimed it fired the employees, and went on like nothing ever happened.

I guess Cheney would have us believe that 2 guys stuffed $6.3 million in their back pockets without Halliburton's knowledge. Well call me cynical or whatever, but I don't buy it.

This time around, the Bush team not only ignored the blatant misconduct, it gave Halliburton another $1.2 billion contract, a move that even upset republicans. Rep Tom Davis, Chairman of the House Committee on Government Reform stated: "It's incomprehensible that the [Bush] Administration could give Halliburton another billion-dollar contract without fully investigating such serious criminal wrongdoing."

And that ain't all. In June 2004, the Pentagon's Defense Contract Audit Agency completed a review that found Halliburton had billed for 36% more meals in Iraq than it had served to the troops, resulting in an overcharge estimated to be as high as $186 million.

In July 2004, the GAO reported that when Halliburton acted as a middleman for the operation of dining halls, costs were over 40% higher.

So what kind of punishment did this misdeed bring? The DCAA told Halliburton to send all bills to their agency for approval before submitting them for reimbursement.

In an August 16, 2004, memorandum, the DCAA "identified significant unsupported costs" submitted by Halliburton and said "while contingency issues may have had an impact during the earlier stages of the procurements, clearly, the contractor should have adequate supporting data by now."

When DCAA examined 7 task orders with a combined proposed value of $4.33 billion, its auditors identified unsupported costs totaling $1.82 billion.

On September 16, 2004, the Pentagon found that $34.2 million of the costs associated with KBR's task order of the Iraqi oil infrastructure contract were unreasonable, including $14.9 million in overcharges and $17.7 million in "unsupported" costs.

On March 14, 2005, a Pentagon audit discovered $108 million in overcharges by KBR for delivering gasoline to Iraq. The minority staff of the House Government Reform Committee later determined that the total overpayment through April 1, 2004 was $167 million

And that still ain't all. In another case of fraud, government auditors found Halliburton claimed to have lost over $60 million worth of government property in Iraq, including trucks, office furniture and computers.

Stuart Bowen, auditor of the now-disbanded Coalition Provisional Authority, said that 6,975 of 20,531 items on Halliburton's ledgers were unaccounted for.

"This occurred because KBR did not effectively manage government property," his report said. "As a result," Bowen said, "we projected that KBR could not account for 6,975 property items from an inventory of 20,531 valued at $61.1 million."

The June 2005 DCAA study revealed new evidence of Halliburton fraud to include the company: (1) overcharged or presented questionable bills for close to $1.5 billion; (2) lost 12 pre-fabricated bases worth over $75; (3) billed $152,000 to provide a movie library for 2,500 soldiers; and (4) submitted inconsistent billings, eg: video cassette players $300 in some instances, and $1000 in others; $2.31 for towels one day and $5 on another.

If Cheney is to be believed, the conspiracy to pick on Halliburton is a global effort because as of July 2004, the French, British, Nigerian and US governments were all investigating Halliburton's activities while Cheney was CEO, for paying over $180 million in bribes to Nigerian officials in exchange for a $6 billion contract to build a natural gas plant in Nigeria.

In this investigation, former Halliburton employees are ratting out Cheney himself. Ex-Halliburton consultant, Attorney Jeffrey Tesler, testified under oath in May, 2004 that he made bribery payments to Jack Stanley, while Stanley was president of Halliburton subsidiary KBR, and also made payments to Halliburton executive William Chaudran. His testimony was backed up by banking records and Tesler said CEO Cheney approved the payments.

Cheney had better not get too comfortable because his criminal empire may soon come crashing down around him. If democrats take back the house and the senate next November, I think its safe to say that investigations will follow.

Evelyn Pringle is a columnist for Independent Media TV and an investigative journalist focused on exposing corruption in government.



http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=25488&mode=nested&order=0

[Big Train]

I'm still waiting for ANY proof other than conjecture and crimes from employees of Cheneys former company to tie him or the president to profiteering. All I see here is a huge steaming pile of evidence against employees and not a shred of evidence (other than hearsay) that connect Cheney to any of that. If these insiders had anything, don't you think they would rat in a way that directly implicates him? Ya know, emails, calls, correspondence, something?

All Cheney's Halliburton holdings were given to A third party charity with a legal binding agreement that he may never reclaim them.

He received a salary for a few years after he left (deferred compensation), but it was a SALARY, not tied into the stock price in any way.

I'm all for someone proving that there is a $ connection, but this ain't it.

[matt19]

good figures but that seems to be a biased site... give me a credible one

[FORD]

Originally posted by matt19
good figures but that seems to be a biased site... give me a credible one

www.idonthaveacluehowtheworldworks.com

[matt19]

thats not credible.. im talking cnn fox.. nbc cbs...

[FORD]

Originally posted by matt19
thats not credible.. im talking cnn fox.. nbc cbs...

Those links aren't credible very often. They are members of the Corporate Whore Bush Blowing Media. Which is why they REFUSE to carry stories like this.

[Big Train]

The news media generally only carry actual news, so I see what your saying.

[DEMON CUNT]

Here's how war profiteers like Dick are enriching themselves.

Halliburton (HAL)
Stock price 3/03: $20.73
Stock price 3/06: $73.02

So if you owned 1000 HAL shares your wealth would have increased $55,290 since the war began.

Dick owns quite a few more than 1000.

Resource:
Yahoo Finance - HAL (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=HAL&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=)

More here:

BBC: Halliburton exec on fraud charges (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4359765.stm)

BBC: Cheney accused of corporate fraud (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2119981.stm)

CBS: Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml)

[DEMON CUNT]

Here's a graphic representation of Halliburton's Enronian stock price progression.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/h/hal

[DEMON CUNT]

Here's a graphic representation of Halliburton's Enronian stock price rise.

[DEMON CUNT]

Here's a graphic representation on Halliburton's Enronian stock price rise.

[Big Train]

http://www.factcheck.org/article261.html

Come again? We have been down this road many times. Those articles you quote are out of date and incorrect when compared to the actual documentation. But let's continue to puff smoke where there is no fire.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
http://www.factcheck.org/article261.html

Come again? We have been down this road many times. Those articles you quote are out of date and incorrect when compared to the actual documentation. But let's continue to puff smoke where there is no fire.

As you probably know there are all kinds of ways to hide funds and investments.

Looks like the charity agreement the Dickies signed expired in 2003. Am I wrong?

Sorry about the triple post- my browser froze up twice. All additional posts will be sold and after tax profits donated to charity.

[Warham]

Glad to see you owning, Demon, Big Train.

:)

Keep it up.

[Big Train]

Yes I do know that, however, that brings this argument back to square one. After all the screaming about it, not a single shred of evidence exists to tie Cheney to profiteering. This is all wishful thinking by the democrats. Kind of sad really.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
Yes I do know that, however, that brings this argument back to square one. After all the screaming about it, not a single shred of evidence exists to tie Cheney to profiteering. This is all wishful thinking by the democrats. Kind of sad really.

Your denial does not make the evidence go away or take the argument back to square one.

To deny Halliburton's obscenely massive profits is just plain silly.

Anything as to the stock profits to charity agreement expiring?

[Big Train]

When you give up power of attorney, it doesn't expire. The options and profits were turned over in perputity. There is no expiration. Read the link I posted.

My denial makes the evidence go away because no evidence has been produced other than to say that Halliburton did well. Defense companies generally do well in times of war. The sun rises in the East. What else is new?

We are back at square one until someone can actually demonstrate some actual proof showing profiteering. Otherwise, it's slander in my book.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
....

My denial makes the evidence go away because no evidence has been produced other than to say that Halliburton did well. Defense companies generally do well in times of war...

Interesting...

"We all have a share."

Joe Heller's Lt. Milo Minderbender. "Catch-22"

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
When you give up power of attorney, it doesn't expire. The options and profits were turned over in perputity. There is no expiration. Read the link I posted.

My denial makes the evidence go away because no evidence has been produced other than to say that Halliburton did well. Defense companies generally do well in times of war. The sun rises in the East. What else is new?

We are back at square one until someone can actually demonstrate some actual proof showing profiteering. Otherwise, it's slander in my book.

1. No. Please go ahead and direct me to the part of your link that supports your opinion on this.

2. The notion of "war" in this context is incorrect as Congress never declared "war."

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Interesting...

"We all have a share."

Joe Heller's Lt. Milo Minderbender. "Catch-22"

Nice!

You "big picture" liberal types just don't understand our need to follow the reptilian parts of our brains! Praise Jesus!

[Big Train]

Man, your fucking lazy. You expect me to read 3 different articles, which I did, but you can't even peruse one?


Enjoy:


Stock Options


That still_would leave_the possibility that Cheney could profit from his Halliburton stock options if the company's stock rises in value. However, Cheney and his wife Lynne have assigned any future profits from their stock options in Halliburton and several other companies_to charity. And we're not just taking the Cheney's word for this -- we asked for a copy of the legal agreement they signed, which we post_here _publicly for the first time.


The "Gift Trust Agreement" the Cheney's signed two days before he took office turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to_give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education , a_ charity that provides financial aid for low-income students in Washington, DC to attend private and religious schools.

The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," so the Cheney's can't take back their options later.

The options owned by the Cheney's have been valued at nearly $8 million,_his attorney says._Such valuations are rough estimates only -- the actual value will depend on what happens to stock prices in the future, which of course can't be known beforehand. But it is clear that_giving up rights to the future profits constitutes a significant financial sacrifice, and a sizeable donation to the chosen charities.

[Nickdfresh]

But what ever happens after Cheney leaves the office of his eight-year hiatus?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
Man, your fucking lazy. You expect me to read 3 different articles, which I did, but you can't even peruse one?


I don't expect you to read shit.

Still the evidence provied expired in 2003. You still have not explained this.

Didn't you say "The news media generally only carry actual news, so I see what your saying." So how about it?

[Roy Munson]

The trucking thing is a hollow arguement. I've been in the trucking business all of my life and currently manage my family's trucking company. If they are bitching about trucks getting paid for "empty" miles and for getting paid to haul "1 pallet" of material then they have no clue as to how transportation and logistics work.

Let's start with the fact that "empty" trucks need to make money, too. That's a fact of the business. The truck is still going down the road burning fuel and utilizing the skills of the driver, whom you are paying, behind the wheel. That's why I always try to minimize what I call "deadhead", or empty miles. There are some cases where that just doesn't work out and you have to "bounce" the truck quite a long way just to get reloaded.

Now, I'm not Iraq War expert, but I'm going to assume a few things here for the sake of logic. I would assume that Haliburton rates their truck hauls similar to what I would do. This would include a rate for the "loaded" miles as well as a rate for the "empty" miles. Therefore, the truck would be making money as long as it is producing a cost to the company. This would mean getting paid for "empty" miles.

I'm also going to assume that there would be quite a bit of "just-in-time" hauls, meaning products that are time-sensitive in getting to strategic locations. This would explain the fact that Haliburton has been paid to haul "1 pallet" of material with the rest of the truck being empty. This happens all the fucking time in the trucking business. I have been called MANY times by shippers who are up against the clock on 1 or 2 pallets of product and they are most times willing to pay whatever it takes to get it to their customers. Case in point: one of my trucks hauled 1 pallet of metal castings from Minnesota to Atlanta for a full-load rate. The product had to get there in a specified amount of time and they were willing to pay for exclusive use of the truck. Therefore, I was not able to put any other freight I might find with it to make more efficient use of the trailer space.


I would imagine this scenario happens all the time in a war situation. Certain ammunitions might be needed ASAP to a strategic location with no time to further utilize the rest of the space available in the truck. That 1 pallet has to go NOW with no time to waste. I'm guessing there aren't too many huge shippers like Proctor and Gamble, United Sugars, or Quebecor set up across Iraq so a person can line up what we call "backhauls" to make better use fo the miles the truck is driving. So, the fact that the writer even mentions this just shows that he/she has no fucking clue as to how the transportation industry works.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I don't expect you to read shit.

Still the evidence provied expired in 2003. You still have not explained this.

Didn't you say "The news media generally only carry actual news, so I see what your saying." So how about it?

That's not my quote, sorry.

The evidence expires? I have no idea where you are getting that from. The agreement is in perputity. Last time I checked that work is forever. Nick, it doesn't matter after he is out of office, those options are gone. He can't ever get them back. End of story.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
That's not my quote, sorry.

The evidence expires? I have no idea where you are getting that from. The agreement is in perputity. Last time I checked that work is forever. Nick, it doesn't matter after he is out of office, those options are gone. He can't ever get them back. End of story.

If the administration of the agreement expires, let's say in 2003 for sake of argument, what then?

When it comes to legal stuff like this, reality hides between the lines.

Oh and when was "the last time you checked" what in "perputity" (sic) meant? Next time you are feeling all like a lawyer and shit; remember that the word is perpetuity.

Definition of in Perpetuity (http://www.answers.com/in+perpetuity&r=67).

http://home.sprintmail.com/~sknolle/mitchum/capefear91deniro.JPG

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Big Train
That's not my quote, sorry.



Yeah, it is. scroll up this very page and you will find...


Originally posted by Big Train
The news media generally only carry actual news, so I see what your saying.

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Big Train
We are back at square one until someone can actually demonstrate some actual proof showing profiteering. Otherwise, it's slander in my book.

You know so much....let's see some proof they are NOT profiting from the war.

Not only that, but who says they have to profit right now?

Haliburton is making so many billions off of this, they can afford to wait until Dickless Wonder is out of office, then give him a consultancy with a salary of several million per year...

You obviously are among the sheep around here who live in denial about the way the world works...

[Warham]

How many companies in the world can do the job that Halliburton is set up to do?

Just out of curiousity.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
How many companies in the world can do the job that Halliburton is set up to do?



Do you mean companies that can defraud American taxpayers of millions of dollars?

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Do you mean companies that can defraud American taxpayers of millions of dollars?

No, I'm talking about the number of companies in the world than can handle the logistics of such large operations in these specific parts of the world.

[Roy Munson]

While I do not want to totally defend Halliburton and it's practices I do wonder what the precedent might be for calculating these contracts? How can one specifically determine what certain contracts are worth when there really isn't any type of "market" to compare them to for pricing? We're talking about a war here. It's not like Dipshit Trucking putting in a bid to haul grapes from Bakersfield, CA to Des Moines, IA. That's an easy thing to guage when it comes to pricing because every chickenhauler and their grandmother is trying to get a run like that. That's why the price gets so low sometimes.

These are things I think about and question. I also know that Halliburton truck drivers who are working in Iraq are paid very well compared to a driver who works within the US. Of course, they would have to be when you consider the conditions and environment.

And I also wonder about equipment? I would bet that most of the equipment that Halliburton uses in Iraq is not standard by any means. It costs me almost $140,000 for a new truck and trailer and I'm talking about a regular sleeper truck with a van trailer. I'm willing to bet that's peanuts compared to how Halliburton has to spec their rigs. I wonder how many complete rigs are working over there? Hundreds? Thousands? What about maintenence and parts? What about the transportation of those parts from different sources across seas?

As far as the actual compensation contracts go, that's another story. It would be interesting to see exactly how Halliburton bid everything and why. Also, I know it's been said that Halliburton was given these contracts but I'm wondering what other companies also put in opposing bids for the work? I'll admit I maybe haven't looked as far into this story as some of you have.

I ask these questions with all due respect to the arguement that Halliburton could very well be fleecing this entire system. I just think that there are a lot of variables in this equation.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
No, I'm talking about the number of companies in the world than can handle the logistics of such large operations in these specific parts of the world.

Oh! In that case...

I am not sure. Before the invasion someone built Baghdad. Someone supplied the electricity. Someone handled the oil drilling and distribution. Someone built Saddam's palaces, etc. Was it Halliburton? I doubt it.

Before KBR the military prepared and served it's own food. It was called KP duty.

We have been fed this "Halliburton is the only company in the world that can..." for a long time by people who have been wrong about the invasion from the very beginning.

[Warham]

Well, let's be honest here. Halliburton has been used by our government since at least the mid 90's, before any invasion took place.

Did they win those bids in the 90's because they were the lowest bidder or was there another reason?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Well, let's be honest here. Halliburton has been used by our government since at least the mid 90's, before any invasion took place.

Did they win those bids in the 90's because they were the lowest bidder or was there another reason?

Take a look at this:

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/chronology.html

[Warham]

Ladybird Johnson owns/owned a lot of stock in Brown & Root.

[Warham]

Halliburton wants to drill for oil on Mars?

What will the Martians think about an American occupation?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Yes I do know that, however, that brings this argument back to square one. After all the screaming about it, not a single shred of evidence exists to tie Cheney to profiteering. Kind of sad really.

It is sad that these criminals succeeded so thoroughly in their fleecing and cover-up job.

Where there's this much smoke, there's a fuckin fire dude.

[ODShowtime]

I'm glad Warham thinks it's funny that we are pissing away billions of OUR money on a failed war that could rip the entire region to shreds.

[Warham]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
I'm glad Warham thinks it's funny that we are pissing away billions of OUR money on a failed war that could rip the entire region to shreds.

Keep improving on your fiction writing, OD, and you may become the next Dan Brown!

[Big Train]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
It is sad that these criminals succeeded so thoroughly in their fleecing and cover-up job.

Where there's this much smoke, there's a fuckin fire dude.

Kindly show me the open flame then, is all I'm asking.

[Hardrock69]

All you have to do is read the newspaper, instead of making useless requests in this forum.

[Warham]

They are useless requests, that's for sure, because nobody will provide the smoking gun.

[Big Train]

Exactly. If I said "I want to just assume a lot of stuff and throw in my pre determined conclusion" yea, reading the newspaper and watching TV is pretty effective. I'm just asking for a simple thing that nobody who is positive about Cheney can seem to prove.

[diamondD]

They just "know" he's guilty. Why should they provide proof?

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Kindly show me the open flame then, is all I'm asking.

I see open flames on the TV every day...


You've been saying the same thing (me too, I know) for years! Don't tell me you're not a lot closer to being convinced now than you were then.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Exactly. If I said "I want to just assume a lot of stuff and throw in my pre determined conclusion" yea, reading the newspaper and watching TV is pretty effective. I'm just asking for a simple thing that nobody who is positive about Cheney can seem to prove.

dude, I didn't give a shit about gw until the shit hit the fan and all he did was grab more and more power and pay out more and more money to more of his friends. All that while the idiot social conservatives keep trying to restrict more of my rights... and more people keep getting wasted.

I'm at a loss to why you haven't come to the same conclusion considering your acuity. I've tried my best with you. :(

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by diamondD
They just "know" he's guilty. Why should they provide proof?

How much proof do you want? I'm not going to sit here and fucking regurgitate the last 5 years of history! :rolleyes:

All I can say to you and your ilk is tough tits that the Hammer is out of action. Fuck all that bullshit. Fucking scumbag fascist.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Do you mean companies that can defraud American taxpayers of millions of dollars?


typo.

Obviously DC meant to say Billions with a B

:cool:

[diamondD]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
How much proof do you want? I'm not going to sit here and fucking regurgitate the last 5 years of history! :rolleyes:

All I can say to you and your ilk is tough tits that the Hammer is out of action. Fuck all that bullshit. Fucking scumbag fascist.

All I can about you and your "ilk":rolleyes: is you don't give a damn about due process and actually going after someone for breaking the law. You just say he did it and cry about it.

If there's "real" proof, why hasn't someone in the Democratic party dropped their nuts and gone after him? BECAUSE APPARANTLY THERE ISN'T ENOUGH PROOF TO CONVICT.

I want actual proof that stands up in a court of law. Call me a fascist for holding on to the very fabric that guides our court system all you want, but he's innocent until you convict. No one's even charged him with anything. If he's guilty, fry him. I have no problem with that.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
How much proof do you want? I'm not going to sit here and fucking regurgitate the last 5 years of history! :rolleyes:



Why not?

Let's see your proof.

:gulp:

[Big Train]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
dude, I didn't give a shit about gw until the shit hit the fan and all he did was grab more and more power and pay out more and more money to more of his friends. All that while the idiot social conservatives keep trying to restrict more of my rights... and more people keep getting wasted.

I'm at a loss to why you haven't come to the same conclusion considering your acuity. I've tried my best with you. :(

While I appreciate your best efforts, and the compliment, there are a few things you need to keep in mind. I have issues with the Republican Party for sure. Immigration for example, I'm miles apart from the party on, for better or worse. However, on a lot of those core issues I still agree. In a few years, there will be a new leader and a new course for sure.

My failure to come to your way of thinking is more a great vote of non-confidence in the Democratic Party. Truth be told, if there were a Republican independent party that I agreed with, thats where my vote would be no doubt.

On the Cheney issue, I just refuse to slander a man, any man, without any real evidence. In this case with Halliburton, there just isn't any. And if all the major news media and independent reporters, bloggers or whatever the fuck, had any real evidence, with all their numerous resources, it would be a dead issue by now, with real ramifications. But there isn't any, because there is no evidence.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by diamondD
All I can about you and your "ilk":rolleyes: is you don't give a damn about due process and actually going after someone for breaking the law. You just say he did it and cry about it.

If there's "real" proof, why hasn't someone in the Democratic party dropped their nuts and gone after him? BECAUSE APPARANTLY THERE ISN'T ENOUGH PROOF TO CONVICT.

Dude, I'm not about to lead a mob into the White House.

I post articles and make points to further people's understanding. I'm not about to embark on some investigative journalism crusade.

gw&friends classify and declassify with ease and have been skilled at deception for decades.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
On the Cheney issue, I just refuse to slander a man, any man, without any real evidence. In this case with Halliburton, there just isn't any. And if all the major news media and independent reporters, bloggers or whatever the fuck, had any real evidence, with all their numerous resources, it would be a dead issue by now, with real ramifications. But there isn't any, because there is no evidence.

He was the Secretary of Defense, then the CEO of Halliburton, and then the VP, where he advocated for a costly war where a huge percentage of the profts went to Halliburton. All connected to the Carlisle group, founded in part on the concept of creating value (or obscene wealth) out of high-level government connections. It's right there! The CEO position and all the money he made then (forget the insured deferred comp) is his reward for this war now. He got paid back in the 90s. How hard is that to understand? That's all easy to prove from news articles. It's right there in the open. It's been proven that he manipulated the intelligence that convinced Congress to go to war and the UN to pass it's final resolution.

A fucking warmongering fascist traitor. Fronted by a stuttering mental midget who can't even ride a bike.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
I'm still waiting for ANY proof other than conjecture and crimes from employees of Cheneys former company to tie him or the president to profiteering. All I see here is a huge steaming pile of evidence against employees and not a shred of evidence (other than hearsay) that connect Cheney to any of that. If these insiders had anything, don't you think they would rat in a way that directly implicates him? Ya know, emails, calls, correspondence, something?

All Cheney's Halliburton holdings were given to A third party charity with a legal binding agreement that he may never reclaim them.

He received a salary for a few years after he left (deferred compensation), but it was a SALARY, not tied into the stock price in any way.

I'm all for someone proving that there is a $ connection, but this ain't it.

Golly, I wonder what Cheney will do once the reign of error is over?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
No, I'm talking about the number of companies in the world than can handle the logistics of such large operations in these specific parts of the world.

Well, to be fair, few companies had the insider information necessary to prepare themselves...

[Big Train]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
He was the Secretary of Defense, then the CEO of Halliburton, and then the VP, where he advocated for a costly war where a huge percentage of the profts went to Halliburton. All connected to the Carlisle group, founded in part on the concept of creating value (or obscene wealth) out of high-level government connections. It's right there! The CEO position and all the money he made then (forget the insured deferred comp) is his reward for this war now. He got paid back in the 90s. How hard is that to understand? That's all easy to prove from news articles. It's right there in the open. It's been proven that he manipulated the intelligence that convinced Congress to go to war and the UN to pass it's final resolution.

A fucking warmongering fascist traitor. Fronted by a stuttering mental midget who can't even ride a bike.

So the story is now changing? He got his reward FIRST, then did all this to pay back Halliburton? C,mon, even Ford might say that was reaching. I'm trying to stick with reality, not the script. That's like saying the Clintons were successul lawyers, then they started White Water and MonicaGate to pay back the bar association and run up billable hours.

There isn't a shred of proof other than the circumstancial to prove anything, so it's nothing but a fanciful theory and that is all it will ever be. People will time, motivation and resources far greater than ours have tried and failed. There is just nothing there, I'm sorry. If Soros can't find it, it ain't there.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Golly, I wonder what Cheney will do once the reign of error is over?

Live his life. What's your theory?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
Live his life. What's your theory?

He's going to get a giant fucking fruit-cake this Christmas (with a file in the center). And also some gold-plated, diamond-studded defibrillators...

The same one Halliburton charges the Army $9000 for in Iraq...