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BigBadBrian
04-16-2006, 12:59 PM
The generals' revolt
Apr 14, 2006
by Pat Buchanan



In just two weeks, six retired U.S. Marine and Army generals have denounced the Pentagon planning for the war in Iraq and called for the resignation or firing of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

Washington Post columnist David Ignatius, who travels often to Iraq and supports the war, says that the generals mirror the views of 75 percent of the officers in the field, and probably more.

This is not a Cindy Sheehan moment.


This is a vote of no confidence in the leadership of the U.S. armed forces by senior officers once responsible for carrying out the orders of that leadership. It is hard to recall a situation in history where retired U.S. Army and Marine Corps generals, almost all of whom had major commands in a war yet underway, denounced the civilian leadership and called on the president to fire his secretary for war.

As those generals must be aware, their revolt cannot but send a message to friend and enemy alike that the U.S. high command is deeply divided, that U.S. policy is floundering, that the loss of Iraq impends if the civilian leadership at the Pentagon is not changed.

The generals have sent an unmistakable message to Commander in Chief George W. Bush: Get rid of Rumsfeld, or you will lose the war.

Columnist Ignatius makes that precise point:

"Rumsfeld should resign because the administration is losing the war on the home front. As bad as things are in Baghdad, America won't be defeated there militarily. But it may be forced into a hasty and chaotic retreat by mounting domestic opposition to its policy. Much of the American public has simply stopped believing the administration's arguments about Iraq, and Rumsfeld is a symbol of that credibility gap. He is a spent force ..."

With the exception of Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, the former head of Central Command who opposed the Bush-Rumsfeld rush to war, the other generals did not publicly protest until secure in retirement. Nevertheless, they bring imposing credentials to their charges against the defense secretary.

Major Gen. Paul Eaton, first of the five rebels to speak out, was in charge of training Iraqi forces until 2004. He blames Rumsfeld for complicating the U.S. mission by alienating our NATO allies.

Marine Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, director of operations for the Joint Chiefs up to the eve of war, charges Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith with a "casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions -- or bury the results."

Maj. Gen. John Batiste, who commanded the Army's 1st Division in Iraq, charges that Rumsfeld does not seek nor does he accept the counsel of field commanders. Maj. Gen. John Riggs echoes Batiste. This directly contradicts what President Bush has told the nation.

Maj. Gen. Charles J. Swannack, former field commander of the 82nd Airborne, believes we can create a stable government in Iraq, but says Rumsfeld has mismanaged the war.

As of Good Friday, the Generals' Revolt has created a crisis for President Bush. If he stands by Rumsfeld, he will have taken his stand against generals whose credibility today is higher than his own.

But if he bows to the Generals' Revolt and dismisses Rumsfeld, the generals will have effected a Pentagon putsch. An alumni association of retired generals will have dethroned civilian leadership and forced the commander in chief to fire the architect of a war upon which not only Bush's place in history depends, but the U.S. position in the Middle East and the world. The commander in chief will have been emasculated by retired generals. The stakes could scarcely be higher.

Whatever one thinks of the Iraq war, dismissal of Rumsfeld in response to a clamor created by ex-generals would mark Bush as a weak if not fatally compromised president. He will have capitulated to a generals' coup. Will he then have to clear Rumsfeld's successor with them?

Bush will begin to look like Czar Nicholas in 1916.

And there is an unstated message of the Generals' Revolt. If Iraq collapses in chaos and sectarian war, and is perceived as another U.S. defeat, they are saying: We are not going to carry the can. The first volley in a "Who Lost Iraq?" war of recriminations has been fired.

In 1951, Gen. MacArthur, the U.S. commander in Korea, defied Harry Truman by responding to a request from GOP House leader Joe Martin to describe his situation. MacArthur said the White House had tied his hands in fighting the war.

Though MacArthur spoke the truth and the no-win war in Korea would kill Truman's presidency, the general was fired. But MacArthur was right to speak the truth about the war his soldiers were being forced to fight, a war against a far more numerous enemy who enjoyed a privileged sanctuary above the Yalu river, thanks to Harry Truman.

In the last analysis, the Generals' Revolt is not just against Rumsfeld, but is aimed at the man who appointed him and has stood by him for three years of a guerrilla war the Pentagon did not predict or expect.

Link (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/patbuchanan/2006/04/14/193777.html)

Nickdfresh
04-16-2006, 02:37 PM
Decent article...

But this isn't exactly true:


Though MacArthur spoke the truth and the no-win war in Korea would kill Truman's presidency, the general was fired. But MacArthur was right to speak the truth about the war his soldiers were being forced to fight, a war against a far more numerous enemy who enjoyed a privileged sanctuary above the Yalu river, thanks to Harry Truman.

More like MacArthur was an overrated prima donna that failed to plan for a War with China, despite the fact we knew we were capturing Chinese PLA soldiers, then tried to blame it all on Harry...

Nitro Express
04-16-2006, 02:49 PM
McArther was a prima donna but he understood winning a land war in Asia required nukes. Truman wouldn't use them. It's easy to critize both men for things but Truman was right to fire a general who no longer would treat the commanding chief with respect. Using nukes probably would have made things worse in the long-run.

Like all post WWII wars, Korea was the fist of many unwinable pooch screws. The US never one any of these wars because the civilian leadership never wanted to be ruthless enough to win them. Plus the American people back home never saw that the war was worth it.

We find ourselves in the exact same problem now. People will support a short-term campaign but unless they feel they are directly threatened by invasion, the support wears thin quickly.

ULTRAMAN VH
04-17-2006, 08:40 AM
These General's have every right to voice their disdain for Rumsfeld. What I would like to know is why now. Why didn't they voice these opinions while serving.

DrMaddVibe
04-17-2006, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
These General's have every right to voice their disdain for Rumsfeld. What I would like to know is why now. Why didn't they voice these opinions while serving.

Good call...maybe they were worried about their own pensions. Real men lead by example without fearing the consequences.

Nickdfresh
04-17-2006, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
These General's have every right to voice their disdain for Rumsfeld. What I would like to know is why now. Why didn't they voice these opinions while serving.

Why don't you go into work today and tell your boss to piss off if he happens to be an idiot? Obvious enough?

Anyways, Rumsfeld publicly ridiculed Gen. Shinseki, and then fired his subordinate (ass't Sec. of Defense White) the clusterfuck that Iraq has become speaks for itself...

Those Generals have every right to voice their professional opinions. I guess we should keep sending out young people to die for a right of freedom of speech, while never using it and never questionaing why MORE US TROOPS DIED IN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF THIS MONTH (47) that in all of March (31). The war is shit, and Rumsfeld is an incompetent... And it's largely his fault.

Phil theStalker
04-17-2006, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Why don't you go into work today and tell your boss to piss off if he happens to be an idiot? Obvious enough?

Anyways, Rumsfeld publicly ridiculed Gen. Shinseki, and then fired his subordinate (ass't Sec. of Defense White) the clusterfuck that Iraq has become speaks for itself...

Those Generals have every right to voice their professional opinions. I guess we should keep sending out young people to die for a right of freedom of speech, while never using it and never questionaing why MORE US TROOPS DIED IN THE FIRST TWO WEEKS OF THIS MONTH (47) that in all of March (31). The war is shit, and Rumsfeld is an incompetent... And it's largely his fault.
I've noticed this, t2oo.

And I've voiced this t2o people I come in contact with. I tell them this is an election year and already the corporate media has silenced the war in the American people's living rooms. The election brainwashing has begun.

With that fact about the media it's funny that so-called cuntservatives call the 'press' liberal. That shows how misguided and superficial those so-calleds are. There's nothing liberal about the 'liberal press'. The press is all corporate. PERIOD.

Listen t2o mmme yoo shallow so-calleds. WHAT IS liberal ABOUT CORPORATIONS AND CORPORATISTS? huh

Nothing.

It's all about globalism, profits, and STINGY cuntservative hands.

It's funny how o1ne fakking question like that (it's answer) suddenly CLEARS THE AIR f4or the so-called conservatives about their belief in a liberal media.

And who gave these lowlifes this lie of a view about the press?

Their own party from the top lies to them. Believe me, the lowest life liberal knows the press is corporate, establishment, and is a tool for keeping the globalists plans on track kissing or kicking politicians and issues as the gloablist elite demands of them. PERIOD.

That's why I literally hate lowlife, brainwashed, redneck, red states so-called conservatives. All a gloablist enemy of America has t2o say t2o get their vote is say 'values' and 'I hate homos, I hate abortion, I hate taxes," and so on and these so-calleds become their sluts.

I'm looking f4or more of this type of reporting about the war up t2o the elelctions in the fall unless the body-count of U.S. troops rises t2o the point it can't be spun and woven from their corporatist, globalist press looms.

So, the White House will LIMIT all planning f4or miliary operations up t2o the fall election, JUST LIKE THEY DID WITH FALLUJAH. And then after the elections if there isn't a suffienct body count of reps and senators who lose the globists will launch new opertaions in force, JUST LIKE FALLUJAH UP TO...LAST MONTH.

The world is all so PREDICTABLE o1nce you understnd.


:spank:

Warham
04-17-2006, 02:43 PM
What do the other 4,000 generals think about this War and Donald Rumsfeld?

Do you think that there might be six generals who think Rumsfeld is doing a good job that the media might report on? Make it five since retired Gen. Myers thinks he's doing a good job.

Nickdfresh
04-17-2006, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Warham
What do the other 4,000 generals think about this War and Donald Rumsfeld?

Read Buchanan's article. He states a pro-War Washington Post columinist said that about two-thirds of military officers with combat experience in Iraq think Rumsfeld sucks....


Do you think that there might be six generals who think Rumsfeld is doing a good job that the media might report on? Make it five since retired Gen. Myers thinks he's doing a good job.

Why would the media not report on it? A bunch of dweebs bucked up Dumsfeld today. One was on CNN, though he was very half-hearted to say the least. Basically, he wasn't so much defending Rumsfeld as saying ex-players shouldn't second guess the teams GM, even if they're in the midst of a losing season...