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Coyote
04-15-2004, 07:22 PM
What's your opinion on them Tokai Love Rocks?

GAR
04-16-2004, 05:57 AM
Freind of mine is convinced he's got a 68 Black Beauty, but I know from my research it's a Tokai Love Rock.

I've seen em on Ebay go around $375 up to $550 for real clean ones, I like 'em. The neck and (nonvolute) volute portion below the nut area is blended really well and its a choice stick of wood, balancewise.

I'd want one myself if I was into Gibson scale length right now, but I'm on a Fender kick. I go back n forth, between a short n long.. once in awhile I can't put down my Duosonic cus its scale length feels funky enough to get into for awhile - but I like the Tokai's alot. Fine guitars - nowadays. Depends on the year, 80s ones I'd seen before were crap to me.

Coyote
04-16-2004, 08:51 AM
I'm planning to get one (brand new), so thanks for your opinion, dude.

Really helped me out. :)

Cato
04-16-2004, 07:59 PM
buy with confidence Coyote. but don't take a Korea-made one...

this's my Love Rock, made in the early '80s. beautiful one...

GAR
04-16-2004, 08:21 PM
He may not have a choice:

These guitars are not supposed to be in the U,S, because they're fairly exact copies of the Les Paul design, trademarked by Gibson. The Japoid copies are exact, and the korean ones may have some differences to make them not so precise.

Fender's agreement with its' Asian manufacturers' preclude the necks and bodies from being interchangeable - a giveaway that by moving the intonation point further towards the bride by 3/8", horns of the cutaways slightly wierd and the contours all funky and undershaped, one can then tell it's not a Fender but may be an Import.

.. how appropriate Cato should own more pirated items of copywrite infringement besides music.

Coyote
04-17-2004, 10:12 AM
What kind of stock p'ups do these axes have?
I was thinking of changing the bridge p'up for a Gibson 500T.

GAR
04-17-2004, 07:48 PM
Depends on level experience and rig youplay thru as much as what type of songs you wanna play.

I'd have a quick answer from the Seymour Duncan catalogue usually, but ebay's full of other stuff I'd suggest you try first now.

Any T-top Gibson humbucker made from 1970 up to about 1980 is a good start, you can find these onebay for under $100 and are a good value because they will increase in value over a number of years.

Any Seymour Duncan humbucker sh-1 thru sh-12 is a good bet too, because Duncans are about the most consistent pickup brand.

But the stock Tokai pickups aren't so great, and you do wise to change them to something US made. If not ofr the fact that youshoud be into trying different sounds for you rguitar to output from: pickups are just transducers and a bad or lame one will only provide limitations you later wish you'd upgraded from when in a band setting.

Upgrade now and build your library of pickups now, before your bandmates potentially tell you to.

Coyote
04-17-2004, 08:49 PM
Well, my Les Paul-ideas (sonic ideas, that is) rotate around Zeppelin/Thin Lizzy, albeit I'm currently in a quasi-punk band.
And I'm applying to a pop/jazz conservatoire.

What's with these brand new 500T's? Why does it have to be specifically from the 70's/80's?

Coyote
04-17-2004, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by GAR
But the stock Tokai pickups aren't so great, and you do wise to change them to something US made.

I noticed that upon testing the guitar in the store. It didn't sound as "solid" as I would've hoped it would... That's why I'd opt for a 500T, for that nice, solid sound. Hell, if I'd have the money, I'd get me a Les Paul Classic.

GAR
04-17-2004, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Coyote
What's with these brand new 500T's? Why does it have to be specifically from the 70's/80's?

The seventie's Gibsons were made during a period that the factory was owned by a corporation called Norlin, Inc. so we call that the "Norlin Era". Pickups made during this period were very consistentl as far as alnico magnet strength and the way the bobbins were wound. They're easy to modify and sound great when peeled down.

500T's are pretty strong output, and you can get em on ebay about $35 bucks, but I don't recommend them when, for at that price if you want a ceramic-bar magnet, why not get a Seymour SH-6 Custom or a Duncan Distortion humbucker for about the same price?

Buy a lot of pickups, invest in them and get used to switching them in and out for different types of responses. Youll find your ear gets trained a little differently with each pickup and its the cheapest way to having a totally new sound for the same guitar - beats the hell out of keeping a bunch of different guitars on hand just for differnt sounds.

Coyote
05-07-2004, 12:22 PM
I just purchased it today. I'm in fucking love! Played through my setup it kicks out a pretty decent Aerosmith-"Toys In The Attic"-sound. The setup is just right. (they were nice enough to set it at the store.)

Panamark
05-08-2004, 08:29 AM
Tokai Love Rocks, hey ?

Japoids are exact copies of Les Pauls ??
Thats a huge statement to make..
How do you know this for a fact ? (If you dont
mind me asking)

So these are better than Epi - Pauls ??

Coyote
09-14-2004, 04:15 PM
reviews...

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Tokai/Love-Rock-01.html

http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Tokai/LS-320-Les-Paul-01.html

website...
http://www.tokai-guitars.co.uk



BTW, Gar, do the covers on some pickups have any significant meaning? (nickel, etc...)

GAR
09-14-2004, 06:14 PM
Yeah, they do because the less magnetism (MU factor) the covers cut out reaching out from the polepieces to the guitar string, the duller sounding its gonna be.

That's why some pickups sound better when the covers are removed and why most replacement pickups are sold without covers.

Duncan's Antiquity Series come with an intentionally tarnished/fucked up nickel plated cover and it does sound abit more on the "live" side to me, but since it too is magnetic its' additional clarity may be lost on the average player who does Pantera and Tool grunknoise so for them, the look without the cover is just for the look since tone is not an issue.

If the MU factor of magnetic penetration could be measured you'd use a Gaussmeter and hold the sensor tip over the polepieces, and then pass the covers you want to measure between the sensor. I used to collect covers and had a shit load of oldies, I had once planned to investigate magnetic penetration amongst older covers to make a determination of what's the best, most transparent sounding cover. But I quickly came to the conclusion that sound is affected more by the way the coils are wrapped and the way the cover is attached than anything, so at this time I have no interest in the MU factor of covers.

I do insist there is a detectable difference to my ears, but to prove this to the deaf of ear one must show it on paper in some measurable gain-or-loss fashion by a/b'ing them all in a specific database which I currently have no time to do.

Coyote
09-15-2004, 03:40 AM
So if I were to remove the covers from my pickups, what tools and how much patience would I need? 'Cause I'm getting tired of crankin' up the treble just to make sound good...

GAR
09-20-2004, 04:42 PM
I would just use a 40 to 100 watt soldering iron, make sure the solder bead is wet n shiney before a quick upside-down flip and tapping the solder onto a kitchen table or workspace. You could also use a desoldering tool, which is a spring-backed vacuum plunger device:

http://www.mpja.com/pictures/12581.jpg

.. you push that rod down against the spring inside, hold the hollow white tip against the wet blob of solder:

http://www.innovace.net/ebays/Desolder.jpg

.. then press the Release button which sucks the melted solder up and off the metal covers' bond to the pickup. $11 at Radio Shack, more elsewhere.

If you're cheapo and don't wanna wait, you can use braided speaker wire held against the solder puddle for a "wicking-action" removal of the solder:

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/guide/images/wick.jpg

.. or buy a spool of specially-braided flat shit called Desoldering Braid, also from Radio Shack and elsewhere, about $3 bucks.

GAR
09-20-2004, 04:48 PM
Also you might want to have a #1 Flat screwdriver on hand to "pull" the pickup out of the cover because sometimes no matter how well you desolder the cover's joint bonding the back plate, a sticky bit sometimes lays behind the joint which you can't reach.

If that's the case, I would jab the flat blade in from the leg-side, under the cover, then pry downward carefully minding not to bend or flex the metal _OR_ to touch the bobbins in any way.

If you jab the bobbins and break the wire, you're fucked. Its now broke and will not work without repair, for which we then must start a "Peeling Down a Humbucker?" how-to thread..

I have bought many a "broken" humbucker off Ebay, even vintage ones, that some dick broke by wanting to remove the cover and subsequently breaking the winds.. mwahh haa haa..

Cathedral
09-22-2004, 06:28 AM
Gar, you need to mod this forum, Dude. Your knowledge simply amazes me to no end.

Roth On!

Coyote
09-22-2004, 07:44 AM
Originally posted by GAR
Also you might want to have a #1 Flat screwdriver on hand to "pull" the pickup out of the cover because sometimes no matter how well you desolder the cover's joint bonding the back plate, a sticky bit sometimes lays behind the joint which you can't reach.

If that's the case, I would jab the flat blade in from the leg-side, under the cover, then pry downward carefully minding not to bend or flex the metal _OR_ to touch the bobbins in any way.

If you jab the bobbins and break the wire, you're fucked. Its now broke and will not work without repair, for which we then must start a "Peeling Down a Humbucker?" how-to thread..

I have bought many a "broken" humbucker off Ebay, even vintage ones, that some dick broke by wanting to remove the cover and subsequently breaking the winds.. mwahh haa haa..

Ok. One last question. What's with the screws on top of the cover? The so-called "adjustable polepieces"?

GAR
09-22-2004, 09:02 PM
The strength of the pickups' bar magnets' magnetism which throws out in a little field above each screw is called the "flux gap" and its sensitivity is moderately affected by how close or far it is to the string that's above it.

Some crappy pickups that have little going for them in the way of note articulation ANYWAYS ain't gonna be affected by the gap to the string, so on those pickups you're limited by having only the pickup height adjustment screws on each side of the pickup to help define or decrease the bass response by how close the low end side is up to the strings.

In cases like these, the manufacturer will try to claim the benefits of the pickup in terms of "powerful magnet" so beware, because the stronger the magnet - the flipside is that the weaker the sensitivity is too. Strong-assed magnets will stop string rotation cold and kill off highs (ie DiMarzio X2N Power Plus, Super Distortion, Duncan Distortion, Duncan Invader & Full Shredd.. Quarter Pounder Strat/Tele).

But on really fine and sensitive pickups a balance is found between articulation and magnetic strength: not too "hot" on the copper windings and not too strong of a magnet, either. On pickups like these you can really notice a difference of a few sixteenths of an inch - which is necessary for people with different gauge string sets or style of playing.

Leo Fender fussed for months to get these flux gaps correctly set for the original Stratocaster, back in 1953.. so when Fender fucked it all up in 1977 by changing ALL Strat polepieces to "straight-across" polepieces instead of staggering the gaps, the tone suffered and people noticed it.

People like those who started the early Charvel school of thought like Wayne Charvel, Randy Zacuto and Grover Jackhole.

GAR
09-22-2004, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Gar, you need to mod this forum, Dude. Your knowledge simply amazes me to no end.

Roth On!

Thanks, but Von and Sarge decided to keep with diversity and have 1 mod to a site, either here or there and I chose to honor that when Army came back.

Otherwise you'd see the same mods on all the boards..

Cathedral
09-22-2004, 11:36 PM
Bummer, You're an asset when it comes to tech talk, or just laying into someone, lmmfao.

You have taught me many things i'm sure would have been expensive to learn elsewhere.

Thanks!

GAR
09-25-2004, 09:33 PM
I spoke too soon - they took my Mod status off for arguing and teasing.. how eGay™ is that~!!!

BlimpyCHIMP™
09-27-2004, 09:45 PM
IDIOT

GAR
09-28-2004, 05:48 PM
???

Coyote
10-13-2004, 05:15 PM
BTW, for those who care:

http://www.mikseri.net/artistit/?id=36197

click on the "Hifi" or "Download" button to hear bran'-spankin' new material by Uzi Diesel. (Except the last one, which is older.)

Tokai Love Rock + Marshall MG100RCD/Behringer Ultrastack BG412S and Fender Strat + Behringer V-ampire

GAR
10-13-2004, 09:05 PM
What kind of Fender Strat - stock pickups in it?

Coyote
10-14-2004, 07:32 AM
Yeah, I guess. It was the studio's own guitar.

Nitro Express
10-20-2004, 01:54 AM
I always liked those original Fender Stratocaster staggered pole pickups. My best sounding Strat has lefty staggered 68 reissue Fender pickups in a righty guitar. So you are kind of getting what Jimmy Hendrix had going in his tone. Take what Leo Fender fussed over and reverse it. Pure magic!

GAR
10-23-2004, 05:21 PM
Seymour Duncan says he rewound some strat pickups and gave them to Hendrix's road tech. If he could verify those same pickups' existence in any Jimi guitars in the present day, it could only mean Jimi was one of the first users of Seymour's re-fussing!

jackassrock
11-16-2004, 01:25 PM
When you're removing the pickup covers it helps to heat up the cover a little on the top.

They're set with wax so they don't squeal and the wax will want to hold the cover on. The first one I ever tried to get off resulted in me breaking the pickup while trying to pry it out. live and learn by my $100 mistake.

GAR did you post something about rewinding pickups on a different thread?
I've got several that need this kind of help.

GAR
11-29-2004, 05:15 PM
I can help you with rewinding after January, I'm swamped.

No, I had posted a how-to "pot" pickups in wax on DDLR which went down with the site and was lost - if anyone saved that thread, you're smarter than I am. I think CATO saved it, but he's below room-temperature intelligence so I'm not saying he's smart by any common method at all..

I may do a thread on rewinding next year, but not for potting. Sorry. That was a head scratcher to animate the GIF's to show the dipping and the bubbles n' shit on the wax when I did that PAF, and writing the text out for it. I didn't save it.