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View Full Version : I guess some Liberals can't tolerate the concept of Freedom of Speech in the U.S.



BigBadBrian
04-18-2006, 11:50 AM
Destruction of anti-abortion display under investigation
Associated Press
HIGHLAND HEIGHTS, Ky. - A Northern Kentucky University professor is under investigation after admitting she told students to destroy an anti-abortion display on campus.

About 400 crosses were pulled up from the ground near the University Center and dumped in trash cans. The crosses, temporarily erected last week by a student group called Northern Right to Life, were meant to represent a cemetery for aborted fetuses.

Northern Kentucky University police are investigating the vandalism report.

Sally Jacobsen, a professor of literature and language, said nine students in one of her graduate-level classes dismantled the display Wednesday.

"I did, outside of class during the break, invite students to express their freedom of speech rights to destroy the display if they wished to," Jacobsen said, declining to say if she took part.

Northern Kentucky University president James Votruba said any evidence of criminal activity would be turned over to prosecutors. Votruba said he also was investigating Jacobsen's alleged involvement in the destruction of the crosses.

"I don't know if she was pulling up the crosses, but I think she was out there with the students. If so, as far as I'm concerned, she went outside the conditions of her employment," Votruba said.

Link (http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/14343343.htm)
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Crosses removed at NKU
By Stephenie Steitzer
Post staff reporter

ADVERTISEMENT

A Northern Kentucky University literature professor could be disciplined for her role in the removal of nearly 400 crosses that were erected on campus as part of a school-sanctioned display by a right to life group.

Tenured professor Sally Jacobsen, who has been teaching at NKU since 1980, said she found the display offensive and asked students in her British literature class Wednesday night if they wanted to take down the crosses.

During a break in class, Jacobsen said she asked "if any students wanted to participate in practicing their freedom of speech in destroying the very offensive right to life, anti-abortion display in the central plaza."

"Some did," she said.

Jacobsen wouldn't say if she participated in taking down the crosses, which campus police later recovered in campus trash cans.

NKU President Jim Votruba said police are continuing to investigate and would turn the matter over to Campbell County, Ky., prosecutors and the university administration for review.

He said Jacobsen and the 10 to 12 students involved, whom police have not yet identified, could face disciplinary action.

"In my mind, this is a serious violation of a faculty member's responsibilities and undermines what a university is established to do," Votruba said.

He dismissed as "a ludicrous comment" Jacobsen's assertion that students were expressing freedom of speech, saying it doesn't apply to vandalizing or stealing property.

NKU Police Sgt. Dave Tobergte said police received a call about the theft at about 7 p.m. Wednesday. Police recovered most of the crosses and returned them to the NKU Right to Life group.

A police report valued the crosses at $600.

A sign identifying the display as the "Cemetery of the innocents" has not been found, said Dean of Students Kent Kelso.

He said students involved in the incident could face punishment ranging from a warning to expulsion.

The newly formed NKU right-to-life group put the crosses back up shortly after they were recovered, said sophomore Lauren Macke, one of 15 members of the organization.

University officials said Northern Right to Life obtained permission to erect the display Sunday. The group plans to take it down Saturday.

Macke said each cross represents 10 abortions that occur every day. She said members would continue putting the crosses back up no matter how many times they are taken down.

"It really shocked me because of course we're pro-life, but we try to respect other people's opinions, and people who are pro-choice," she said. "If anything, it will just increase our resolve and help us keep going with our mission."

Jacobsen said she felt "horribly violated" by the display, saying any woman going through the process of abortion "should not be slapped in the face by her university by calling her a scarlet woman."

Votruba said he would prefer Jacobsen and others who found the display offensive erect their own display.

"That's a civilized way to let ideas play off each other," he said.

In an e-mail sent to campus officials earlier this week and obtained by The Kentucky Post, Jacobsen demanded the display be removed immediately. She wrote that the crosses violated the separation of church and state because NKU is a state institution.

Votruba disagreed.

"If people are occasionally offended by points of view on a campus, that's what a university is all about," he said.

Votruba said he welcomes lively debate on such a hot-button issue on campus.

"We're a place where ideas get vetted," he said.

Link (http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060414/NEWS01/604140337)

Hardrock69
04-18-2006, 03:54 PM
That concept (intolerance of Free Speech) is a trademark of Right-Wing Fascists and Commies everywhere....including (but not limited to) Chimpy and his Merry Band Of Criminals in the White House.

Again, this thread is a non-issue, with relevance to nothing.

bobgnote
04-18-2006, 04:18 PM
The cross has to GO, one way, or ANOTHER way. OUT, either way.

Assholes, PLEASE. Your jimmy has to get discarded after you ass-sex Christians shove it in, again, and again, and again, and FUCK!@ss!

OUT OF THE POOL, Hebes 10 times, YOU shit-cross-junkies for Imperial Roman whips and chains and BUTTSEX!

FORD
04-18-2006, 08:57 PM
Why is a church group planting crosses on state property?

If they set up such a display on their own property, it would be freedom of speech. To do so on anyone else's property is tresspassing, and in this case a violation of the seperation of church and state.

amadeus
04-18-2006, 09:09 PM
You know if it were a bunch of right-wing conservatives destroying signs that displayed something concerning same-sex marriage or pro abortion they would be accused of being a bunch of thought controlling nazis who do not have tolerance for other beliefs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the conservatives are still made to look bad. Libs only love freedom of speech when it benefits them.


Of course, I am now awaiting the liberal spin on what i just wrote.

FORD
04-18-2006, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by amadeus
You know if it were a bunch of right-wing conservatives destroying signs that displayed something concerning same-sex marriage or pro abortion they would be accused of being a bunch of thought controlling nazis who do not have tolerance for other beliefs. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, the conservatives are still made to look bad. Libs only love freedom of speech when it benefits them.


Of course, I am now awaiting the liberal spin on what i just wrote.

If those signs were placed on church property, then that church would have every right to remove them.

diamondD
04-18-2006, 10:37 PM
No matter if it church, state, or what property. It wasn't THEIRS to destroy and she should be fired if it's true she encouraged it in any way, shape, or form. Just like they said, it's beyond her realm.

Guitar Shark
04-18-2006, 11:14 PM
I don't know, I think FORD has a valid question. Allowing a pro-life religious group to erect religious symbols at a state university does seem like it comes close to the state "promoting" a religious viewpoint, which is not supposed to happen.

It doesn't make what this professor did right, though.

blueturk
04-18-2006, 11:28 PM
I'm not a Cindy Sheehan fan, but evidently conservatives aren't big fans of opposing views either...

Man accused of running over crosses
August 16 2005

Cindy Sheehan said she doesn't want to press charges against a pickup driver who early Tuesday allegedly ran over a makeshift memorial for the more than 1,800 Americans killed in Iraq. Police said he drove a pickup over 500 crosses and 40 American flags.

Court papers identified him as Larry Northern, 59, from nearby Waco.

He has been charged with a felony criminal mischief count. Damage to the memorial was estimated at more than $1,500. He was released after posting $3,000 bail, according to court records.

Sheehan said protesters would ask for a restraining order to keep the driver away from their camp.

Dave Jensen, a participant in the protest, said the truck driver appeared to be dragging a piece of pipe behind his pickup to aid in the destruction.

"The whole idea is everybody is just supporting the troops and honoring the troops," Jensen said. "This was definitely not a way to honor the troops, no matter what side of the fence you're on."

CNN's Dana Bash contributed to this report

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/17/crawford.protest/

Nickdfresh
04-18-2006, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I don't know, I think FORD has a valid question. Allowing a pro-life religious group to erect religious symbols at a state university does seem like it comes close to the state "promoting" a religious viewpoint, which is not supposed to happen.

It doesn't make what this professor did right, though.

The voice of reason....

She should not have advocated the destruction of the crosses in any way...

But they should not have been there to begin with it seems...

DLR'sCock
04-18-2006, 11:47 PM
Yes, I agree with GS.....

Hardrock69
04-19-2006, 02:07 AM
My personal opinion is that when I see such demonstrations, I leave the crosses alone.

I did not put them there, they are not mine.

Anyone stupid enough to do something like running over a bunch of them deserve to be arrested for destruction of private property. Unless of course they were put on someone's property without permission....then the crosses need to be run over and the person who PUT THEM THERE needs to be arrested for trespassing.

knuckleboner
04-19-2006, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
I don't know, I think FORD has a valid question. Allowing a pro-life religious group to erect religious symbols at a state university does seem like it comes close to the state "promoting" a religious viewpoint, which is not supposed to happen.



not necessarily. if the people who put up the crosses got a permit, they could probably have done it. so long as the government does not make a distinction among which group it gives permits to, it's generally acceptable.

in which case, the proffessor is DEFINITELY in the wrong...

Guitar Shark
04-19-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
not necessarily. if the people who put up the crosses got a permit, they could probably have done it. so long as the government does not make a distinction among which group it gives permits to, it's generally acceptable.

in which case, the proffessor is DEFINITELY in the wrong...

You see, this is why I don't practice constitutional law... ;)

knuckleboner
04-19-2006, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
You see, this is why I don't practice constitutional law... ;)

so you're not just an alias for scalia?! wow. i'm crushed! :D

Guitar Shark
04-19-2006, 11:39 AM
I blame my liberal constitutional views on the fact that I reside within the 9th Circuit... :D