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frets5150
06-02-2006, 10:33 AM
Iraq Prime Minister Blasts Troop Conduct
BAGHDAD, Iraq (June 2) - Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki upbraided the U.S. military over allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha, calling the killings "a horrible crime" in his strongest public comments on the subject since his government was sworn in last month
The U.S. military ordered coalition troops in Iraq on Thursday to undergo special training in ethics and "the values that separate us from our enemies" in the wake of the Haditha allegations.

The order came as Iraq's government began its own investigation of the deaths last November in the western town as well as other incidents involving U.S. troops.

Al-Maliki said the list of human rights breaches by coalition forces in Iraq was long.

"This is a phenomenon that has become common among many of the multinational forces," the prime minister said. "No respect for citizens, smashing civilian cars and killing on a suspicion or a hunch. It's unacceptable."

Al-Maliki's remarks bolstered Iraqi complaints that U.S. troops are insensitive to their culture and show disregard for their lives. To many Iraqis, the soldiers are occupiers seeking to control the country's oil wealth.

The Americans, on the other hand, are under intense pressure, isolated from Iraqis by cultural and language barriers and battling insurgents who easily blend into the civilian population. Some of the troops are in Iraq on their third combat tour since the U.S. invasion three years ago.

The training, which will include slideshows, will cover all coalition soldiers in Iraq and last 30 days. Of the 150,000-strong multinational contingent in Iraq, 130,000 are Americans.

"As military professionals, it is important that we take time to reflect on the values that separate us from our enemies," Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the No. 2 U.S. general in Iraq , said in a statement. "The challenge for us is to make sure the actions of a few do not tarnish the good work of the many."

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, spokesman for the Multinational Force- Iraq, told a Baghdad news briefing that the training was designed to reinforce what troops learned before coming to Iraq. It will focus on "values and looking at the legal, moral and ethical standards that every one of us in uniform here, as guests of the Iraqi government, need to adhere to," he said.

"The coalition does not and will not tolerate any unethical or criminal behavior. All allegations of such activity will be fully investigated," he said.

Chiarelli's announcement followed last week's visit to Iraq by U.S. Marine Commandant, Gen. Michael W. Hagee, who cautioned troops on the danger of becoming "indifferent to the loss of a human life."

The U.S. military is conducting at least two investigations into the killings of civilians, including women and children, in Haditha on Nov. 19.

The killings followed the death that day of a Marine in a bomb explosion that targeted a military convoy. Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., a decorated war veteran who has been briefed by military officials, has said the Marines, angered by the loss of a comrade, shot and killed civilians in a taxi near the scene and went into nearby homes and shot others.

U.S. military investigators have evidence that points toward unprovoked murders by the Marines, a senior defense official said last week. The Washington Post reported Thursday that the investigators will conclude some officers gave false testimony to their superiors, who then failed to scrutinize the reports adequately.

"It appears to be a horrible crime," Prime Minister al-Maliki told reporters. "A large number of women, men and children have been killed because of an explosion that targeted a vehicle of the multinational forces."



It took nearly a month for President Bush to be told of the Haditha investigation, the White House said Thursday. Earlier this week, Bush aides had said the president was briefed "soon after" the probe began.

The decision to launch an Iraqi inquiry was made at a Cabinet meeting Thursday, according to Adnan al-Kazimi, an adviser to the prime minister.

A committee of security experts as well as officials from the Justice and Human Rights ministries will look into the Haditha incident as well as other cases where misconduct by U.S. troops is suspected, al-Kazimi told The Associated Press.

An Iraqi government, which took office May 20, said the Haditha "tragedy" violated the guidelines of justice and human rights" and demanded no leniency be shown to its perpetrators.

"The Council of Ministers demands that generous financial compensations be paid to the victims' families and an official apology be presented to the Iraqi government after the results of the investigation are announced," a government statement said. It emphasized, however, the need for coordination between the Iraqi side and the U.S.-led coalition forces

Hardrock69
06-02-2006, 05:15 PM
I am just waiting for the day when the Iraqi Prime Minister & their "parliament" orders the United States to get the fuck out of his country.

We did what we set out to do, get Saddamite out of power.

Let the Iraqi people run their own show.

We have more important crap that needs attention back home, like securing our borders.

BigBadBrian
06-02-2006, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
I am just waiting for the day when the Iraqi Prime Minister & their "parliament" orders the United States to get the fuck out of his country.

We did what we set out to do, get Saddamite out of power.

Let the Iraqi people run their own show.

We have more important crap that needs attention back home, like securing our borders.

You know what...I tend to agree with you anymore.

I do think it is a waste, however, for those that have already died.

Not completing the job, that is.

Anyway, if we pull out (Bill Clinton cut-n-run style) maybe the UN will finally see fit to send peacekeepers in. When they ask us for help, we should promptly tell them to fuck off.

I agree with you about the borders also. Too many damned illegals getting in.

:gulp:

FORD
06-02-2006, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian


Anyway, if we pull out (Bill Clinton cut-n-run style)

You mean Ronald "the greatest President ever" Reagan style, don't you?

(Beiruit, 1983)

jcook11
06-02-2006, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by FORD
You mean Ronald "the greatest President ever" Reagan style, don't you?

(Beiruit, 1983)

You mean Richard M. "the gratest President ever" Nixon. :D

FORD
06-02-2006, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
You mean Richard M. "the gratest President ever" Nixon. :D

No, unfortunately Nixon cut and run about 58,000 dead Americans too late :(

(and yes I know LBJ deserves part of the blame, but Nixon campaigned on ending the war, and his administration ended before the war did)

frets5150
06-02-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Hardrock69
I am just waiting for the day when the Iraqi Prime Minister & their "parliament" orders the United States to get the fuck out of his country.

ME TO!!!

We did what we set out to do, get Saddamite out of power.

YES WE DID BUT NOW WE WANT TO TAKE FULL CONTROL

Let the Iraqi people run their own show.


We have more important crap that needs attention back home, like securing our borders.

SINCE WHEN DOES THE United States TAKE orders
:rolleyes:

jcook11
06-02-2006, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by FORD
No, unfortunately Nixon cut and run about 58,000 dead Americans too late :(

(and yes I know LBJ deserves part of the blame, but Nixon campaigned on ending the war, and his administration ended before the war did)

Fucking BCE got him ay FORD?

BigBadBrian
06-02-2006, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by frets5150
SINCE WHEN DOES THE United States TAKE orders
:rolleyes:

Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
06-02-2006, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by frets5150
SINCE WHEN DOES THE United States TAKE orders
:rolleyes:

Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gun:

frets5150
06-02-2006, 08:10 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gun:

Ahh so we are the Superior ones every one else is inferior.
You sure you don't work for the BCE?

BTW I got your point the first time no need to post it Twice :gulp:

Seshmeister
06-02-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gun:

Jesus...

jcook11
06-02-2006, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Jesus...

Leave Jesus out of this. :D

blueturk
06-02-2006, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
Leave Jesus out of this. :D

Why? Your leader brings up religion whenever it suits his needs.

"Justice was being delivered to a man who defied that gift from the Almighty to the people of Iraq." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

jcook11
06-02-2006, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
Why? Your leader brings up religion whenever it suits his needs.

"Justice was being delivered to a man who defied that gift from the Almighty to the people of Iraq." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Dec. 15, 2003

The "Almighty" he is referring to is Karl Rove....Pay attention! :D

FORD
06-02-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gulp:

Except that one little nation whose spies infect the Pentagon like lice in Hagar's afro, right?

blueturk
06-02-2006, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Good Point.

The US, particulary when our troops in the field are concerned, should take no orders from inferior nations....and that is all of them.

:gulp:

That's a very patriotic thing to say. Also very Dubyan. I usually abhor Bush-Hitler comparisons, but your statement reeks of "master race" bullshit. So we invade other countries to make them over in our likeness? And if a few civilians get killed in our grand plan, "that's just war", right?

jcook11
06-02-2006, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by blueturk
That's a very patriotic thing to say. Also very Dubyan. I usually abhor Bush-Hitler comparisons, but your statement reeks of "master race" bullshit. So we invade other countries to make them over in our likeness?

Nope we do it to take their oil, rape their women and kill their children

blueturk
06-02-2006, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
Nope we do it to take their oil, rape their women and kill their children

Ah, yes! Let's add those reasons on to the numerous other ones your leader has used to justify this "mission".

Seshmeister
06-02-2006, 09:50 PM
That would make sense in a sick way.

But your government is so fucking shit it can't even do that.

You can't even rape a fucking country properly.

That scum prick Bremner stole 20 billion off the Iraqi's but it cost the US people $200 billion in tax to do it.

At least if you are going to kill thousands of innocent people and steal their shit do it fucking properly...

Nitro Express
06-02-2006, 09:57 PM
"We destroyed the villiage in order to save it!" A famouse radio transmission from Vietnam. Those who don't learn from past mistakes only repeat them.

Since when is it ever a good idea to bring peace and democracy to a country by invading it? Basic training in the military trains people to be killers and conquerers. The military exists to kill people and break stuff. The military is not a police force nor are they a govt.

The guys in uniform exist to kick ass. That is their job. Many of them becomes a dangerouse machine, a machine the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution put under civilian control to avoid a coute de tat by a power hungry general. Unfortunately the elected civilians sometimes abuse the military or misuse it.

When you take a trained killer and put them on some duty they don't believe in and treat them like shit. Of course some of them are going to snap and bust a cap on someone. Do our soldiers care about Iraq. No, they want to come home and fuck. If they can't do that and they see no good purpose of the sacrifice, they fuck over the place.

Seshmeister
06-02-2006, 10:11 PM
I think simplifying things what has happened is that we are the bad guys now.

Morally and objectively.

It's like the stormtroopers in Star Wars being told that they were fightiing for freedom.

The founding fathers thing is sick BS though.

They were utter cunts who were happy to fuck their 200 slaves.

I can't think of anything worse morally than having slaves.

van whalin
06-02-2006, 11:00 PM
whoa whoa whoa, I really have to object. Being in the military myself, we are not merely killing machines and most of our work happens to be humanitarian. The actions of a few make it harder to justify our moral highground in Iraq but it is not as bad as what Saddam did nor what the insurgency does every single day. What some marines have done in Hadifa is terrible, but can you really blame them?
Imagine being sent out everyday on meaningless patrols in (mostly soft skinned) vehicles not really designed to take the impact of large explosions. most guys feel like they are just waiting to be blown up. The enemy seems invisible- they're smart enough to only come out when troops arent around, something the guys up top haven't cottoned onto yet , rarely do they actually come out and face you head on and resort to pot shots and bombs.
All you know is that when Americans, Brits, Japs, poles etc are killed 'civilians' are celebrating in the streets, some help to hide insurgents or bury them when they are killed- some have even masked the killings to make it look like civilian deaths.They are surpised when civilians are 'massacred' as it has been put, if the allegations are true they really shouldn't be. If they choose to help terrorists they will be treated liketerroists. If they choose to celebrate terrorist actions then they can die like terrorists. They will contiue to make themselves targets as long as they continue on their current path. Not once have I heard anyone, particarly in the west condemn what the insurgency is doing on an event by event occasion but every time the coalition does something wrong it turns into a media circus with slimy liberal crawling from their rocks to tell us that the war is illegal by UN standards- considering that we found out that half of the delegates including kofo annans son were on Saddams payroll whilst systematically abusing the food for oil agreement and therefore abusing Iraqs people its hardly an organisation we can look to for MORAL GUIDANCE IS IT? Quite frankly all this bulls**t makes our job way harder but most of us carry on and do it anyway.
OH and one more thing................... WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH DAVE LEE ROTH?

jcook11
06-02-2006, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Nitro Express
"We destroyed the villiage in order to save it!" A famouse radio transmission from Vietnam. Those who don't learn from past mistakes only repeat them.

Since when is it ever a good idea to bring peace and democracy to a country by invading it? Basic training in the military trains people to be killers and conquerers. The military exists to kill people and break stuff. The military is not a police force nor are they a govt.

The guys in uniform exist to kick ass. That is their job. Many of them becomes a dangerouse machine, a machine the Founding Fathers of the US Constitution put under civilian control to avoid a coute de tat by a power hungry general. Unfortunately the elected civilians sometimes abuse the military or misuse it.

When you take a trained killer and put them on some duty they don't believe in and treat them like shit. Of course some of them are going to snap and bust a cap on someone. Do our soldiers care about Iraq. No, they want to come home and fuck. If they can't do that and they see no good purpose of the sacrifice, they fuck over the place.

"LOUD APPLAUSE"......Well said NE!

LoungeMachine
06-03-2006, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by van whalin



OH and one more thing................... WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH DAVE LEE ROTH?


You were bright enough to find the site......


You were able to register.........

You should have been bright enough to read what THIS forum was about before posting in it.

Need to ask this question? Read more, then post........

or not.

Your choice.

Get it?

Your choice


CHOICE


CHOICE

[ There is your reason as what this has to do with David Lee Roth ]

:hitch:

van whalin
06-03-2006, 12:58 PM
OH, I get it, maybe you're pissed because I bad mouthed liberals, maybe its because I have such a strong viewpoint on the matter. For your information I was talking about the fact that it is odd to have a war on terror forum on a site like this. I decided to comment because I thought it was worth having the voice of someone who is going to Iraq and already has friends there. If you cant handle that maybe you shouldn't have bothered commenting, maybe in the future when you have neither anything nice or useful to say you can leave it to someone who does, HEY make it your choice, choice CHOICE, get it?

FORD
06-03-2006, 02:04 PM
Ah, a new day, a new troll.... :rolleyes:

LoungeMachine
06-03-2006, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by van whalin
OH, I get it, maybe you're pissed because I bad mouthed liberals, maybe its because I have such a strong viewpoint on the matter. For your information I was talking about the fact that it is odd to have a war on terror forum on a site like this. I decided to comment because I thought it was worth having the voice of someone who is going to Iraq and already has friends there. If you cant handle that maybe you shouldn't have bothered commenting, maybe in the future when you have neither anything nice or useful to say you can leave it to someone who does, HEY make it your choice, choice CHOICE, get it?

You bad mouthed liberals?

You had a strong viewpoint?

Sorry, I don't bother to read run-on sentences from newbies.

But your weak, rhetorical question caught my eye. And if you need to ask why this forum exists....THEN STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THIS FORUM.


Obviously this forum does hold your interest, so don't play stupid.

If you can't figure out the FL/DLR relationship, we can't help you.

:rolleyes:

LoungeMachine
06-03-2006, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by van whalin




, maybe in the future when you have neither anything nice or useful to say you can leave it to someone who does,


LMMFAO
:lol:

jcook11
06-05-2006, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Ah, a new day, a new troll.... :rolleyes:

Another case of "when liberals" can't debate they resort to name calling