You call this abuse?

[BigBadBrian]

You call this abuse?
Jun 2, 2006
by Rich Tucker (

Finally, members of the ACLU, U.N., EU and the rest of the America-bashing alphabet soup can relax. After years of carping, they’ve been vindicated: There’s prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay.
The U.S. military says 89 detainees at the facility, which houses some 460 enemy combatants captured on the battlefield, are starving -- possibly to death. Oh, but that’s not the abuse. After all, the hungry prisoners are actually starving themselves. They’re on a hunger strike.

The supposed abuse? American forces are feeding their prisoners, by force if necessary.

Such life-preserving measures are too much for some doctors. In March more than 250 medical professionals signed an open letter to the British medical journal The Lancet. “We urge the U.S. government to ensure that detainees are assessed by independent physicians and that techniques such as force-feeding and restraint chairs are abandoned,” the doctors wrote. They insist that, if the prisoners want to starve themselves to death, they ought to be allowed to.


Many Americans would probably agree. Few would stand in the way of detained terrorists who want to kill themselves (without taking anyone else with them). Maybe we could even provide some tall buildings in case the prisoners want to jump off. Not one of these prisoners is incapacitated, as Terri Schiavo was. They’re all capable of taking action.

But that assumes these men are really trying to kill themselves. In fact they just seem to be attempting to get some press. “The hunger-strike technique is consistent with al Qaeda practice,” Navy Cmdr. Robert Durand told reporters, “and reflects detainee attempts to elicit media attention to bring international pressure on the United States to release them back to the battlefield.”

The prisoners’ ploy is certainly falling on fertile ground. Plenty of international organizations want these men released.

Amnesty International insists Guantanamo Bay “must be closed down” in part because many “detainees allege they have been subjected to torture or other cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.” Torture -- which in this case involves being fed.

Human Rights Watch is even more direct. “Any detainees implicated in criminal acts can and should be charged now. The rest should be released,” Joanne Mariner, the group’s terrorism and counterterrorism program director, wrote last month.

Of course, most of the Guantanamo detainees were captured on the battlefield. They’re not criminals -- they’re prisoners of war. We’re not looking to “book them,” we simply need to detain them so they can’t go back to the battlefield and kill Americans.

And the number of people we’ve actually held is pretty small. Last month the military announced that only 759 people have spent time at Gitmo. Hundreds have already been freed and an additional 136 detainees will be released or transferred as soon as their home countries agree to accept and treat them humanely, according to Navy Lt. Cmdr. Chito Peppler.

Meanwhile, far from being a hell hole, Gitmo is a model of a humane prison. Detainees eat (if they want to) three balanced meals a day. Each detainee gets a Koran (in his home language) and a surgical mask to store it in (so “infidels” won’t defile it by touching it). There’s a call to prayer five times a day, and guards are instructed to remain quiet during prayers. Two thirds of detainees have a prayer rug, perfume oil and prayer beads. Sounds posh enough as prisons go.

Still, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights claims prisoners have been tortured, even though nobody from the commission actually visited Gitmo to look around. Former military officer Dana Dillon did. And he’s not alone.

“More than 1,000 journalists have visited Gitmo, plus 11 senators, 77 congressmen, 99 congressional staffers, and, of course, lawyers for the detainees,” Dillon wrote last year. “The prisoners there were treated humanely and justly, living in conditions that meet -- indeed, far exceed -- Geneva Convention standards for prisoner treatment.”

As at any prison, there can be violence. Some detainees clashed with guards last month after two had attempted to kill themselves by overdosing on anti-depressant drugs they collected from other prisoners. There’s an example of abuse, American-military style: We give prisoners Prozac so they won’t be depressed.

The American way of war is unique. We do what we need to do to defeat our enemies, but we also bend over backward to prevent unnecessary deaths. The fine folks at the international pressure groups that love to criticize the U.S. can only hope if they’re ever detained it’s by our military, and not by the head-hackers who are our enemies in this Long War.


Link (http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/richtucker/2006/06/02/199799.html)

[binnie]

YAWN

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian



Of course, most of the Guantanamo detainees were captured on the battlefield. They’re not criminals -- they’re prisoners of war.


Most?

Really?

Hmmm.


Then why was Rummy so quick to call them "enemy combatants" to circumvent the Geneva Convention?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by binnie
YAWN

Agreed.

But there is at least some "news" in this drivel, and some points worth debating.

[binnie]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Agreed.

But there is at least some "news" in this drivel, and some points worth debating.

Agreed, but I'm just sick of people defending this massive disregard of human rights.....

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by binnie
Agreed, but I'm just sick of people defending this massive disregard of human rights.....


Imagine if you will, instead of IED roadside bombs, the "insurgents" were kidnapping and detaining US fighters, and treating them in a GITMO fashion...............


So much for the "Do unto others" right-wing :rolleyes:

[binnie]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Imagine if you will, instead of IED roadside bombs, the "insurgents" were kidnapping and detaining US fighters, and treating them in a GITMO fashion...............


So much for the "Do unto others" right-wing :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more............

[jcook11]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Imagine if you will, instead of IED roadside bombs, the "insurgents" were kidnapping and detaining US fighters, and treating them in a GITMO fashion...............


So much for the "Do unto others" right-wing :rolleyes:

You don't think your "freedom fighter" buddies would love to capture an American soldier....They would have him all over Al Jazeera with guns pointed at his head. so far they've only been able to capture a few civillain workers and a couple of journalists.

[Redballjets88]

i dont understand why liberals get so pissed about how we supposedly are inhumane to our pow's or w/e they are, but never say a thing about when american citizens are on tv getting their fucking heads sawed off by swords.

why do they care more about the well being of people who wouldnt think twice about coming to america and blowing up themselves and killing americans, than americans that are being executed for no reason

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont understand why liberals get so pissed about how we supposedly are inhumane to our pow's or w/e they are, but never say a thing about when american citizens are on tv getting their ------- heads sawed off by swords.

why do they care more about the well being of people who wouldnt think twice about coming to america and blowing up themselves and killing americans, than americans that are being executed for no reason


dude, 2 different issues, entirely. if what we're doing in cuba is right and moral, then it's right and moral. if it isn't, then whatever OTHER people do doesn't matter.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont understand why........



Trust me. There's no end to the things you don't understand.


Read more books.


The Texas School System has failed you. I also blame your parents.

[Redballjets88]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Trust me. There's no end to the things you don't understand.


Read more books.


The Texas School System has failed you. I also blame your parents.



you are so unorignal its fucking funny. everytime i say anything you just say texas school systems blah blah, why dont you like actually make a intelligent responce for once? or is that too much for you?

[Redballjets88]

and saying there is no end to what i dont understand makes no sense, because there is no end to what everyone on earth can understand due to the fact that there are an infinent number of things out there for one to understand.

but good attempt at it. im sure one day something you say will bear some meaning

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
you are so unorignal its fucking funny. everytime i say anything you just say texas school systems blah blah, why dont you like actually make a intelligent responce for once? or is that too much for you?


Go back and read this post, and then talk to me about an "intelligent response"


You're an ignorant, uneducated dork.

You're in over your head, skippy.

The iotola said so.....

:rolleyes:

[Redballjets88]

im in over my head bc i have an opinion, and i voiced it? and my post wasnt a "responce" it was a comment.

and you use the fact that i am young to try and prove stupid points, when you use words such as dork.

i dont see why you are so incapable of having a somewhat intelligent conversation about anything instead of automatically being a douche about everything

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian

And the number of people we’ve actually held is pretty small. Last month the military announced that only 759 people have spent time at Gitmo. Hundreds have already been freed and an additional 136 detainees will be released or transferred as soon as their home countries agree to accept and treat them humanely, according to Navy Lt. Cmdr. Chito Peppler.


So these hundreds of people denied any sort of a trial, who were chained up and tortured for years WEREN'T FUCKING TERRORISTS THEN WERE THEY!?

Even by the fucked up standards of the US government.

There is no decent evidence against any of the remaining ones otherwise there would have held a showcase trial by now to justify this evil shit.

Abuse isn't a strong enough word.

You and ELVIS should set up an organisation 'Christians for Torture'.

I've just checked the website is available...

Cheers!

:gulp:

[ELVIS]

"Chained up and tortured" ??


You have some imagination...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by ELVIS
"Chained up and tortured" ??


You have some imagination...

No I can read without blinkers on.

Dozens of sources, pictures, documented facts.

Even the Attorney General in Blair's government is appalled.

Typical example of a guy that was released.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/3504034.stm


[b]

Guantanamo Briton 'was tortured'

Jamal Udeen before his fateful trip to Pakistan
One of the five Britons released from Guantanamo Bay claims US guards at the camp in Cuba tortured and abused him.
Jamal Udeen has told the Daily Mirror he went to Pakistan to study Muslim culture but was taken prisoner after straying into Afghanistan by mistake.

The US, which denies claims of bad treatment at the camp, held him as a terrorist suspect for two years.

Mr Udeen, 37, from Manchester, said he was beaten by men in riot gear after refusing to have a mystery injection.

'Psychological torture'

He said the guards had tried to get prisoners to confess to things they had not done.

They were shackled and attached to metal rings on the floor during interrogation, Mr Udeen claimed in the newspaper.

But he said: "The beatings were not as nearly as bad as the psychological torture - bruises heal after a week but the other stuff stays with you.

"The whole point of Guantanamo was to get to you psychologically. "

Recreation meant your legs were untied and you walked up and down a strip of gravel

Jamal Udeen

A spokesman for US Southern Command in Miami, told BBC News Online: "We do treat the detainees in a fair humane way, according to the Geneva Convention."

The US transferred Mr Udeen to the UK on Tuesday, saying he was a low risk.

But Mr Udeen, a father-of-three, said inmates were kept in wire cages with concrete floors and no protection from the elements.

He claims water to the cells was often cut off before prayers so Muslim prisoners could not wash themselves as their religion instructs them to.

He told the Mirror their "recreation" time involved being untied and
allowed to walk up and down a strip of gravel.

"They actually said: 'You have no rights here'. After a while, we stopped asking for human rights - we wanted animal rights."

Mr Udeen, who is from the Moss Side area of Manchester, said he was chained up and interrogated by the CIA and FBI on 40 occasions and that later MI5 officers also questioned him.

US bombing

Mr Udeen told the newspaper: "They would say: 'Are you a terrorist?' I'd say 'no, get me out of here'."

The web designer, who converted to Islam when he was 23, said his nightmare began four days into his trip to a region of Pakistan on the border of Afghanistan.

When the US began bombing Taleban strongholds he decided to leave and Mr Udeen said he paid a local truck driver to take him to Turkey - not realising the route would take him through Afghanistan.

He said he was initially arrested by the Taleban as a suspected spy but, when the Americans arrived, US soldiers took him to a "concentration camp" before being moved to Cuba.

Mr Udeen said he had agreed to tell his story to the Mirror to highlight the plight of those still being held at the camp.

[ELVIS]

Bullshit

taken prisoner after straying into Afghanistan by mistake


By mistake ??

Oh, ok...:rolleyes:

[ELVIS]

More bullshit...

He claims water to the cells was often cut off before prayers so Muslim prisoners could not wash themselves as their religion instructs them to.

Oh my gosh...

TORTURE !!

[Seshmeister]

So you are saying that it's fine to lock up and torture anyone that wasn't a native of Afghanistan who was in the area when the war started.

I was travelling off the beaten track in Egypt a year before 9-11.

If I had the Muslim superstition and say a few of the hijackers had been from there and the timing had been different then it would have been fine for that to have been done to me?

You're also forgetting he was released with no charges.

[ELVIS]

Ok...

Let's see now...


Originally posted by Seshmeister
So you are saying that it's fine to lock up and torture anyone that wasn't a native of Afghanistan who was in the area when the war started.

Lock up ??

Yes...

I was travelling off the beaten track in Egypt a year before 9-11.

How about after ??

And what does this have to do with anything ??

If I had the Muslim superstition and say a few of the hijackers had been from there and the timing had been different then it would have been fine for that to have been done to me?

"Detained", yes...

That is, If I understand your drunken ramblings correctly...

You're also forgetting he was released with no charges.

So was OJ...what's your point ??




I don't get it...


:elvis:

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Oh my gosh...

TORTURE !!

Don't be a hypocrite, Elvis.

Let's say some activist right wing judge decided that your rehab and religious conversion wasn't enough, and he decided to send you to prison for your past mistakes.

Now let's say that while incarcerated, some assholes came into your cell and pissed all over your Bible, or tried to flush it down the toilet. Or in some other way decided to fuck with your exercizing of your religious faith.

Would that be acceptable to you?

Native Americans often have problems practicing their spiritual beliefs inside correctional facilities, mostly due to ignorance over what is required for their religious ceremonies. For example, a pipe is required, as the chanunpah (pipe) is as sacred to the Native Americans as the Bible is to Christians or the Koran is to Muslims. The peoples of this continent didn't have books. Their traditions were passed down generation to generation.

Anyway, it's wrong to fuck with someone's religious beliefs, even if they are in prison. And if you claim to be religious yourself, then what would benefit an "evil" person more than having the opportunity to know God?

[matt19]

Originally posted by FORD
Don't be a hypocrite, Elvis.

Let's say some activist right wing judge decided that your rehab and religious conversion wasn't enough, and he decided to send you to prison for your past mistakes.

Now let's say that while incarcerated, some assholes came into your cell and pissed all over your Bible, or tried to flush it down the toilet. Or in some other way decided to fuck with your exercizing of your religious faith.

Would that be acceptable to you?

Native Americans often have problems practicing their spiritual beliefs inside correctional facilities, mostly due to ignorance over what is required for their religious ceremonies. For example, a pipe is required, as the chanunpah (pipe) is as sacred to the Native Americans as the Bible is to Christians or the Koran is to Muslims. The peoples of this continent didn't have books. Their traditions were passed down generation to generation.

Anyway, it's wrong to fuck with someone's religious beliefs, even if they are in prison. And if you claim to be religious yourself, then what would benefit an "evil" person more than having the opportunity to know God?

So why do you rag on the "Religious Right"?

[FORD]

Originally posted by matt19
So why do you rag on the "Religious Right"?

Because they are hypocrites who have distorted the name of Christianity and shit all over the teachings of Jesus Christ.

[matt19]

They are doing the same shit that Muslims are in their countries.
Killing for their religion, because they think they are right.

It doesnt make it right but you usually fail to see through your liberal sunglasses.

[FORD]

Originally posted by matt19
They are doing the same shit that Muslims are in their countries.
Killing for their religion, because they think they are right.

It doesnt make it right but you usually fail to see through your liberal sunglasses.

No, I don't excuse anyone killing in the name of their religion, whether it's Chimp Bush, Osama Bin Laden, or Ariel Sharon. Or whomever.

Even if you believe the ridiculous fables of "Al Qaeda", they certainly aren't acting according to the teachings of Mohammed.

[matt19]

Originally posted by FORD
No, I don't excuse anyone killing in the name of their religion, whether it's Chimp Bush, Osama Bin Laden, or Ariel Sharon. Or whomever.

Even if you believe the ridiculous fables of "Al Qaeda", they certainly aren't acting according to the teachings of Mohammed.

Amen.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD


Even if you believe the ridiculous fables of "Al Qaeda"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by FORD
No, I don't excuse anyone killing in the name of their religion, whether it's Chimp Bush, Osama Bin Laden, or Ariel Sharon. Or whomever.

Even if you believe the ridiculous fables of "Al Qaeda", they certainly aren't acting according to the teachings of Mohammed.

They are if they fuck children though like Mohammed did.

Oops better not mention that in any media unless you want to be killed.

[Seshmeister]

Sorry Sarge...

[jcook11]

Originally posted by FORD
Because they are hypocrites who have distorted the name of Christianity and shit all over the teachings of Jesus Christ.

They? I didn't know they sold paint brushes that big at home depot.

By the way today is 6/6/06 shouldn't you be locked down in your bunker?

[jcook11]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Trust me. There's no end to the things you don't understand.


Read more books.


The Texas School System has failed you. I also blame your parents.

Like you are some kind of Rhoades scholar Douche Machine