Death Tax

[4moreyears]

This came out of the republin spin camp. Just wondering how everyone feels about the death tax. To me it makes no sense and if the money was taxed once it seems like double taxation.

President Bush and Republicans in Congress have championed a pro-growth agenda that has brought tax relief to millions of Americans. Historic legislation in 2001 and 2003 put America on the track to economic growth, and today our economic outlook is bright. There is more work to do, however, to ensure that tax-paying Americans can keep more of their own hard-earned income.

Tomorrow, Senators will debate a key issue in our effort to keep our economy strong, the elimination of the death tax. The death tax is an unfair double taxation of income, which hurts America's small businesses and farms and threatens job growth. Its elimination will lower the tax burden on families and promote fairness and economic growth. Unfortunately, this tax relief expires at the end of 2010. It is time for this regressive and unfair tax to end. It is time to kill the Death Tax.

Our party's opportunity agenda means allowing families to keep more of the money they earn. The historic tax relief in the President's first term was only the beginning. Americans deserve a tax code that is simple and fair. The Senate needs to do its part by making tax relief permanent and burying the death tax forever.

[bueno bob]

How about just eliminating taxes altogether?

[FORD]

If we didn't have so many goddamn loopholes in this country, and the so called "death tax" was allowed to do exactly what it was created to do, there never would have been a first "President Bush", let alone this fucking fraud.

Not only do we need to keep the estate tax, we need to make sure it is enforced to the letter, so that multi-generational crime families like the BCE are driven the fuck out of existence.

BTW.... don't buy the "small business and family farms" bullshit. Thanks to the corporatist Republicans, neither exists anymore.

And isn't this a CHAIN LETTER??

[bueno bob]

It certainly reads like one...

[FORD]

4morequeers knows better than to post chain mail spam in this forum. ;)

[knuckleboner]

here's the thing about the "death tax:"

first off, it only affects the rich. before the bush estate tax cut, a single person could leave $1 million tax free to their heirs. if you were a married couple and had a halfway decent lawyer, you could leave $2 million, tax free to your heirs.

it was only people with more than that that had to pay the estate tax.

in other words, only the rich. the estate tax did not affect the vast majority of people.

but it did provide revenue for the country. now, if we're swimming in revenue, fine, i'll consider getting rid of it. or at least lowering it, but when we're running deficits, it's foolish.


as for double taxation? i don't care. the guy who made the money only gets taxed once. the guy who receives it did absolutely nothing to earn it. here's a huge sum of windfall money. ok, in that case, tax him. (technically you're taxing the estate and not the recipent, but practically, it's the same thing.)

mind you, you're only paying the tax if the dead guy had more than $1 million. and then, you're only paying tax on that amount over $1 million.

[Guitar Shark]

Well said, boner dude.

[knuckleboner]

thanks.

(of course, on the other hand, keeping the estate tax is better for the wills & trust attorneys, and i gotta look out for them, too...:D)

[binnie]

I think our inheritance tax way outweighs yours in states, but it is double taxation whichever way you look at it....

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD


And isn't this a CHAIN LETTER??

So what if it is?

Hmmm?

It's nothing compared to all your DU "Conservative of the Week" threads and numerous "Chimpy Impeachment" threads.

Drink a cold one and relax.

:gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Well said, boner dude.

I understand what you meant.....but that statement is just not right.

:eek:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
here's the thing about the "death tax:"

first off, it only affects the rich. before the bush estate tax cut, a single person could leave $1 million tax free to their heirs. if you were a married couple and had a halfway decent lawyer, you could leave $2 million, tax free to your heirs.



I could live with it if it was kept at this level, but many conservatives are afraid this is just another slippery slope issue.

Give 'em an inch.....

:gulp:

[scamper]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
as for double taxation? i don't care. the guy who made the money only gets taxed once

Wrong, the only way to get taxed once on money earned is to bury it in your backyard. If you save it in a bank you get taxed, if you invest in anything you get taxed, if you spend it you get taxed.

[scamper]

We need taxes, but if you sat down and figured out how much of your hard earned money is taxed it would blow your mind. Gas tax, sales tax, income tax, state income tax (which we don't have), capital gains, property tax...the list goes on and on

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by scamper
Wrong, the only way to get taxed once on money earned is to bury it in your backyard. If you save it in a bank you get taxed, if you invest in anything you get taxed, if you spend it you get taxed.

no dude, you're taxed on the ADDITIONAL earnings, not on the same money.

except for the sales tax. i'll give you that.






and BBB: the slippery slope has been in the other direction. it used to be around $700,000. the law kicked it up gradually (last decade or so) to $1 million. and i THINK indexed it.

and i'm 100% in favor of indexing it. if it wasn't, i would've applauded bush for doing so, if that was his tax break.


(and me saying "applauding bush" is right, right?;))

[knuckleboner]

my bad...it's currently $2 million for a single person and $4 million for a couple with a lawyer. anybody here really think that's totally unreasonable?

(and apparently, the senate has nixed a permante removal of the estate tax according to the washington post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/08/AR2006060800138.html))

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by scamper
Wrong, the only way to get taxed once on money earned is to bury it in your backyard. If you save it in a bank you get taxed, if you invest in anything you get taxed, if you spend it you get taxed.

But you do not get taxed on principle only the gains.

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by FORD


And isn't this a CHAIN LETTER??

Hey dumb ass read the first sentance? I got this from my weekly subscription to www.gop.com.

[Nitro Express]

I hate income tax and property tax. I like sales tax. It's visable and everybody pays. The rich get taxed more because they buy more.

The problem is people would go ape shit over a large 20% sales tax even if they paid lower taxes that way than they would with income and property tax. Also the politicians would hate it because they can't play their little games with the tax code.

Also the $60 billion tax preparation industry would dissapear over night.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
Hey dumb ass read the first sentance? I got this from my weekly subscription to www.gop.com.

Ha ha! I love it.

Look at the Neocon dummies get tricked into enriching the top 1% again!

When will they learn?

[Big Train]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
here's the thing about the "death tax:"



it was only people with more than that that had to pay the estate tax.

in other words, only the rich. the estate tax did not affect the vast majority of people.

but it did provide revenue for the country. now, if we're swimming in revenue, fine, i'll consider getting rid of it. or at least lowering it, but when we're running deficits, it's foolish.


as for double taxation? i don't care. the guy who made the money only gets taxed once. the guy who receives it did absolutely nothing to earn it. here's a huge sum of windfall money. ok, in that case, tax him. (technically you're taxing the estate and not the recipent, but practically, it's the same thing.)

mind you, you're only paying the tax if the dead guy had more than $1 million. and then, you're only paying tax on that amount over $1 million.


And you wonder why so many estates have to hid assests in offshore accounts and corporations. They would have to be complete idiots to just leave it out there for the greedy government to pilfer in the name of the public interest.

As a guy in a high tax bracket it offends me how much I pay already, when these sort of measures come along. The death tax is useless in the grand scheme and it is just a bad idea from long ago.

A tradition-a bad idea repeated enough times.

I'm moderately wealthy in comparison to real mutlimillonaires and certainly to billionaires. These guys for the most part are heavily invested in companies around the world and certainly in the US that employ the majority of the american public. To just continue to tax and tax them, they will just relocate and invest in other parts of the world with more friendly policies. Nature of the beast.

On another note, I found it interesting in my state that several key things are happening.
1. Terminator's numbers are going back up.
2. All the liberal ballot measures were hung out to dry this week. Rob Reiner can fuck himself if the top 5% are going to fund preschool for EVERYONE else. Nice try.
3. The Billbray win. Overwhelmingly Republican? Not sure about that Ford. That woman went down based on her own words. Which has solidified the silent, but well funded, campaign donors of conservative stripes into much more of a vocal group. Will be very interesting moving forward.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Big Train
And you wonder why so many estates have to hid assests in offshore accounts and corporations. They would have to be complete idiots to just leave it out there for the greedy government to pilfer in the name of the public interest.



Exactly.

A prominent Democrat's view on taxes:

"Many of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton.

:gulp:

[FORD]

You know when I'll know the rich have paid enough taxes?

The day George Bush Jr has to get an honest job on his own, in order to pay his share of them. Or any other member of that worthless family. Had the estate tax done what the founders intended, Nazi Grandpa's blood money would have ended when he went to Hell.

[Big Train]

Here is a sidebar question, but one that doesn't get a clear response out of most people.

Define what you feel is "enough" in terms of what a person, at any income level, should pay. Also, please add the reasoning behind why you feel that way.

[Loki]

haw. hel awaits all of thee. thou canst not take it with thee. huzzah.

[Switch84]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
So what if it is?

Hmmm?

It's nothing compared to all your DU "Conservative of the Week" threads and numerous "Chimpy Impeachment" threads.

Drink a cold one and relax.

:gulp:



:D ;) LOL, you're alright for a Fudgie fan, BBB!

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Ha ha! I love it.

Look at the Neocon dummies get tricked into enriching the top 1% again!

When will they learn?

Maybe I am in the top 1%!!!

[FORD]

Originally posted by 4moreyears
Maybe I am in the top 1%!!!

Not unless your last name is Bush. That's the only way a dumbass could be in the top 1%.

Or unless you have fake boobs like Titney Spears.

[Guitar Shark]

Titney was a Bush supporter, if I recall correctly.

Could 4moreyears be Titney? :confused:

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Titney was a Bush supporter, if I recall correctly.

Could 4moreyears be Titney? :confused:

Might be. Maybe the username wasn't a reference to the election at all, but a prediction of how much longer her career had left.

Either way it was a bad prediction. Titney and Chimpy are both done.

[DrMaddVibe]

Nothing like taxing something for a 3rd , 4th or maybe a 5th time eh?

[FORD]

If it wipes criminal "dynasties" like the BCE off the face of the earth, tax them 9, 10, or 20 times. However much is neccessary.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by FORD
If it wipes criminal "dynasties" like the BCE off the face of the earth, tax them 9, 10, or 20 times. However much is neccessary.

Or if it takes YOUR own families cash?

[FORD]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Or if it takes YOUR own families cash?

My family aren't billionaires, so I don't have to worry about it.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by FORD
My family aren't billionaires, so I don't have to worry about it.

That makes it all the more criminal to me...multiple taxation I mean.

There's no way you will either!

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

The estate tax may not be ideal, but it IS fair. What are you bitching about vibe and train? that you don't get to inherit all of daddy's money? go earn some yourselves 9as I know you are train).

Its abolition - especially without finding funding elsewhere -should not be the chief item on the policy agenda. If we want to maximise national savings, perhaps it would be prudent to keep the tax and reduce the budget deficit, hmm?

if productive investment is the aim, we should explore eliminating thew mortgage interest deduction, the subsidy that encourages us to buy houses rather than invest in productive assets. that would also rasie revenue.

but no, in this country it's spin and prjudice that its really about.

[Guitar Shark]

Departing from the party line on this issue, EMA?

[EAT MY ASSHOLE]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Departing from the party line on this issue, EMA?

The party of old CREATED the tax - Teddy Roosevelt. So, no, I'm just a traditionalist.

that being said, Pat Robertson ROCKS!

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by EAT MY ASSHOLE
that being said, Pat Robertson ROCKS!

lmao...

I believe he predicted the hurricane currently moving toward Florida.

[Nickdfresh]

It's actually not a "death tax," it's really an INHERITENCE TAX!! It affects only the top 1%'s little kids that are getting a ton of money already. They can afford it! But continue on with what (Republican) Lou Dobbs calls "the war on the Middle Class," the class of people this country lives and dies by...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Exactly.

A prominent Democrat's view on taxes:

"Many of you are well enough off that the tax cuts may have helped you. We're saying that for America to get back on track, we're probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton.


Not to defend the bitch, but you don't think gw&friends are taking money from you when they go bomb brown people?

who does that help?

[Big Train]

What I'm bitching about is the principle, which is why I asked "how much is enough" before.

This Robin Hood "they have enough mentality" is a huge reason why we have no savings or real income per capita. Who cares who gets it, as a general principle, the estate tax is a bad idea. It seems like the only good argument here for it is because it makes people feel good that the top 1% are being taxed. That's weak thinking.

[scamper]

The point is that it's not 1/3 of your income thats getting taxed, it's more like 50 percent after sales tax, property tax, gas tax...etc. Those are taxes we have to pay too, it's not like taxing cigs or beer which are optiional. Who gives a shit what the rich people pay, we're all getting screwed with the current system.

[4moreyears]

Originally posted by FORD
Might be. Maybe the username wasn't a reference to the election at all, but a prediction of how much longer her career had left.

Either way it was a bad prediction. Titney and Chimpy are both done.

Bush did get 4moreyears so I could not have been too far off.