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LoungeMachine
06-22-2006, 12:01 AM
House wants hearings on immigration

Delay could spell doom for reform bill's passage this year

By Frank James
Washington Bureau
Published June 21, 2006


WASHINGTON -- In a move that could sound the death knell for immigration-reform legislation in Congress this year, House Republican leaders said Tuesday they plan to hold numerous hearings on the issue this summer and only then start talks with the Senate that might lead to a final bill.

The delay raises the likelihood that Congress will end the year without passing major immigration legislation that President Bush has supported. That would be a signal defeat for the president, who has urged Congress to approve comprehensive legislation along the lines of the Senate-passed bill, which included a path to citizenship for many of the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants already in the U.S. and the creation of a guest-worker program.

Failure to approve final legislation, however, would be an election-year victory for many House Republicans who have fiercely opposed any course that could lead to illegal immigrants gaining citizenship before U.S. borders are secured, a position held by many voters as well.

House Republicans have consistently decried provisions calling for legalization of immigrants as an amnesty, which they find anathema. In addition, they have said the nation's priority should be securing its borders, especially along the southern perimeter with Mexico, and cracking down on employers who hire illegal immigrants. The House passed enforcement-only legislation in December while the Senate approved its broader bill last month.

"I'm not putting any timeline on this thing but I think we need to get this done right," House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) told reporters. He said hearings were necessary so the House could "understand what the American people are saying."

The call for hearings was part of a strategy by House Republicans to raise public awareness of various elements in the Senate bill they find objectionable, they said.

One provision of the Senate bill would allow illegal immigrants to collect Social Security for the years when they lacked authorization to work, even when they illegally used Social Security numbers that belonged to U.S. citizens or legal residents in order to obtain jobs.

Objections to Senate bill

House critics of the Senate bill also complain it would place unreasonable limits on the information immigration officials could use to decide whether to grant an applicant legal status.

"Once [voters] find out some of things that are in this bill they will be outraged about it," said one House Republican aide who requested anonymity because he wanted to speak more frankly. "And that's the problem. If we just went into a conference [with the Senate] and then passed a bill and sent it to the president and [voters] didn't know all these things were in there, we'd be in a lot of trouble before an election."

Congressional supporters of the Senate's immigration legislation accused House Republicans and some in the Senate of acting in bad faith. "The Republican House wants to defeat the immigration bill," said Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.), leader of the Senate's Democrats.

"It's obvious that the Republicans in the Senate don't want an immigration bill," Reid said. "This is a stall. . . . If there were ever a time for the president to get engaged in this, it would be now. Why can't he, with this power that he has over this Republican-dominated Congress, tell them, `I want to go to conference on this'?"

Despite the delay in any start of House-Senate negotiations over the legislation, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said, "The president is undeterred. We are committed and we have been working very hard with members [of Congress] to see if we can reach consensus on an issue the American people have said they want action on."

Hastert press secretary Ron Bonjean said as many as eight committees will hold hearings, including the House Judiciary, Ways and Means and Homeland Security panels. Hearings would be held in July and August with negotiations between the House and Senate on a final measure slated for September.

"If this legislation is ready to pass in September, then we'll pass it," Hastert said. "But we're not going to pass it before it's ready."

Sen. Edward Kennedy (D-Mass.) said Tuesday there was no reason to hold additional hearings on the immigration bill. The decision by House Republicans was "the wrong way to go," he said, and seemed to simply delay resolving differences between House and Senate versions of the legislation.

Supporters of a more lenient approach toward illegal immigrants suggested that the House leadership hoped that by pushing negotiations with the Senate closer to the Nov. 7 midterm congressional elections, the likelihood of passing a bill would diminish.

`Run out the clock'

Angela Kelley, deputy director of the National Immigration Forum, a Washington-based organization that favors the Senate bill, said, "I think . . . the Republican leadership's game is to just run out the clock. I think that they're really uncomfortable, they're squirming with the split in their party over this. And the fact that the stars have aligned so that the president and the Senate are in the same place on this is just something they don't want to contend with" in an election year.

Steven Camarota of the Washington-based Center for Immigration Studies, which opposes the Senate bill, raised an issue critics have aired as another reason why immigration reform might be doomed, at least for this year.

The Senate bill has some revenue-raising provisions that would require illegal workers to pay back taxes. But the Constitution requires revenue-raising measures to originate in the House.

That could force the Senate to go back and strip out those provisions and that might require more debate and votes in a Senate that already had great difficulty producing its legislation.

"The chance that they have an appetite for debate and votes again on this is not that great," he said. "So that technicality actually matters."

LoungeMachine
06-22-2006, 12:08 AM
Originally posted: June 21, 2006
Immigration bill looks like history
Posted by Frank James at 12:16 pm CDT

A story of mine ran in today’s Chicago Tribune about a move by House Republicans that greatly lessens the chance that immigration-reform legislation will be passed this year.

House leaders are planning to hold a number of hearings this summer to examine in detail the immigration legislation the Senate approved in May.

It’s an extraordinary move by House Republicans. A congressional expert I talked with yesterday, Donald Ritchie, associate historian of the Senate, could not recall an instance where hearings occurred on legislation that normally would go to “conference,” as we say in Washington.

A conference is typically when negotiators from the Senate and House meet, to hammer out the differences between the competing versions of legislation passed by both chambers.

Hearings usually occur before either chamber votes on legislation not afterwards. So it is highly unusual for the House to conduct hearings on a bill the Senate has already voted on.

House opponents of the Senate legislation are convinced that when the details of the Senate’s work product get a full public airing, that enough Americans will be horrified at what they learn to justify the House action.

One feature in the Senate bill to which opponents of the legislation often point would allow illegal immigrants, including those who wrongly used the Social Security numbers of U.S. citizens and legal residents, to apply for benefits accrued during the period the illegal immigrants worked without authorization.

This really steams opponents of the Senate bill since numerous instances of identity theft have been traced to illegal immigrants and these crimes often result in a miserable experience for victims who often must go years trying to repair their credit histories.

I recall that when the Senate voted against an amendment by Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) that would have stripped out this controversial provision, I thought that this issue wasn't going away. And so it hasn't.

In any event, my guess is that there’s a lot of legislation that wouldn’t fare very well if submitted to the kind of scrutiny the House is about to give the Senate bill.

For this reason, I’m guessing this tactic of pre-conference hearings won’t be often repeated. But now that it’s been unleashed, who knows how and when it will be used again?

ULTRAMAN VH
06-22-2006, 07:49 AM
This Identity Theft is another addition to the adverse effects of illegal aliens and open borders. Again the middle class suffers due to the Elites lukewarm policies on illegal immigration. The Elites do not have to deal with the repercussions of illegal aliens. Their children go to private schools, the Elite's live in posh secured gated communities and they are not picking up the tab for illegals housing, healthcare and education. But it won't be long until the middle class is sucked dry and fed up with huge tax hikes to pay for a war, welfare, and illegal aliens. Civil War anyone????

Phil theStalker
06-22-2006, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
This Identity Theft is another addition to the adverse effects of illegal aliens and open borders. Again the middle class suffers due to the Elites lukewarm policies on illegal immigration. The Elites do not have to deal with the repercussions of illegal aliens. Their children go to private schools, the Elite's live in posh secured gated communities and they are not picking up the tab for illegals housing, healthcare and education. But it won't be long until the middle class is sucked dry and fed up with huge tax hikes to pay for a war, welfare, and illegal aliens. Civil War anyone????
War is on the horizon.

You don't have t2o be funny aboot tit by asking f4or it.

You better put away a can of beans a day and some vacuum packed ammo. And u should at least have a handgun if u don't own a rifle.

F4or defense of your life and limb, family, etc..

Do it NOW.


:spank:

Hardrock69
06-22-2006, 10:58 AM
THE RETARDLICANS CURRENTLY IN CONGRESS ARE OUT TO DESTROY THIS COUNTRY!!!

THEY MUST BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE!!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

Big Train
06-22-2006, 10:43 PM
War....settle down boys, settle down.

Its an election year issue that plays to the core audience of repubs. What they end up DOING in the end, isn't the point. The point is it is great in an election year. Ditto for the Dems.

After for the record, whatever they are "taking" from the middle class, they are giving back just the same . You should be more concerned at to why the US is not actively getting into and dominating new industries, which is MUCH more of a concern to the middle class than anything. It isn't about competiting with Jose for the factory job or the Denny's gig. It's about not having a paycheck cuz what you do isn't what America "does" anymore.

Warham
06-23-2006, 08:07 AM
The Senate immigration bill is an abortion. I'm glad it's dead.

Phil theStalker
06-23-2006, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
War....settle down boys, settle down.

Its an election year issue that plays to the core audience of repubs. What they end up DOING in the end, isn't the point. The point is it is great in an election year. Ditto for the Dems.

After for the record, whatever they are "taking" from the middle class, they are giving back just the same . You should be more concerned at to why the US is not actively getting into and dominating new industries, which is MUCH more of a concern to the middle class than anything. It isn't about competiting with Jose for the factory job or the Denny's gig. It's about not having a paycheck cuz what you do isn't what America "does" anymore.
Just election talk?!

So what's more important, BT? Ending the failed mission in Iraq (no WMDs, no "mushroom cloud", no "9/11 connection", etc.) or GETTING REPUBLICANS RE-ELECTED?!@! HUH


:spank:

Big Train
06-24-2006, 10:30 AM
Phil, you said "war was on the horizion", which I took to mean "over immigration".

To which I said settle down.

Of course it is important to get out boys home as soon as possible.

And of course its important to get republicans re-elected!!!! Just playing with you...

BigBadBrian
06-24-2006, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
You should be more concerned at to why the US is not actively getting into and dominating new industries, which is MUCH more of a concern to the middle class than anything. It isn't about competiting with Jose for the factory job or the Denny's gig. It's about not having a paycheck cuz what you do isn't what America "does" anymore.

Agreed, though I still want Jose at Denny's serving my eggs to be here legally.

:gulp:

Nitro Express
06-24-2006, 01:29 PM
If the govt. does nothing on immigration, the citizens will. The Minutemen are one example of that and they will have state govt. support. I personaly have no problem with it. If you look at the US Constitution, the founding fathers put most of the political power in the hands of the individual states. What's happening in Arizona is what was intended in the first place. A state taking care of it's own problems it's own way.

People with ranches on the border are now hiring top notch security people to protect them since the US Govt. can't or won't. Because the federal govt. does nothing does not mean the citizens in the heat of it won't. My question is how many firefights on the border have to happen before Washington wakes up? Pancho Villa is riding over the border again and this time he has helecopters, military vehicles, and machine guns.

Maybe a sollution to the problem is riding into Mexico and shooting at their Federal Police with a 50 cal. machine gun. That should get the chimp's attention. He doesn't seem to care that the US Border Patrol gets shot at all the time now.

Phil theStalker
06-24-2006, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Big Train
Phil, you said "war was on the horizion", which I took to mean "over immigration".

To which I said settle down.

Of course it is important to get out boys home as soon as possible.

And of course its important to get republicans re-elected!!!! Just playing with you...
MMessing wit mmy MIND!

How quaint.:)


:spank:

Big Train
06-24-2006, 11:44 PM
Quaint indeed...likes Dems having an idea or a plan or desire to actually do something...

that's quaint

Phil theStalker
06-25-2006, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
Quaint indeed...likes Dems having an idea or a plan or desire to actually do something...

that's quaint
RU mmmessed in da mmind, mman?

Or RU mmessing wit mmy MMIND?


:spank:

Big Train
06-25-2006, 11:46 AM
I don't know man...that's deeeeeeeeppp..

ULTRAMAN VH
06-25-2006, 04:39 PM
With all due respect Mr. Train, I don't see how the Dems plans are any different than the Republicans. Although maybe for different reasons, both parties seem happy with the invasion of illegal aliens of all ethnicities and the selling of America to the highest bidders.

Big Train
06-25-2006, 07:18 PM
And with all due respect returned Mr. Ultraman, I don't disagree with you at all. I believe both parties want to run the clock on this for as long as possible. The best thing both parties can do is to let this thing go until after the elections. That way we can have election speeches where we talk about being "Tough" (Repubs) or "Fair" (Dems) of which we really plan to do neither.