PDA

View Full Version : Senate Vote on Flag Burning May Be Close



frets5150
06-27-2006, 01:22 PM
Senate Vote on Flag Burning May Be Close


WASHINGTON (June 26) - A constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration is headed toward its best chance of passage in 15 years with a cliffhanger vote later this week in the Senate.

As debate opened Monday, supporters and opponents alike said the amendment is within two votes of being sent to the states for ratification. Supporters called the debate a week before Independence Day a chance for the Congress to salute veterans.

"I think of the flag as a symbol of what the veterans fought for, what they sustained wounds for, what they sustained loss of limbs for, and what they sustained loss of life for," said Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter, R-Pa.

Many veterans, he said, see "disrespect for the American flag as disrespect for them, as disrespect for the sacrifices that they and their buddies have made."

Opponents, who include the Senate's second-most senior Republican and Democrat, say a flag amendment would violate the First Amendment's free speech protections as the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in 1990.

And some Democrats called the debate just the latest example of the Republican majority spending Senate time on an issue with the aim of scoring points with conservative voters in the midterm elections. Earlier this month, the Senate spent three days debating a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriages to see it fall 11 votes short.

"The Constitution is too important to be used for partisan political purposes; and so, in my view, is the American flag," said Vermont Sen. Patrick Leahy, the senior Democrat on Specter's committee. "This is most especially not the time for the Senate to vote to limit American fundamental rights or to strike at the heart of the First Amendment."

The proposed amendment, sponsored by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, reads: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

To become the Constitution's 28th amendment, the language must be approved by two-thirds of those present in each chamber, then ratified within seven years by at least 38 state legislatures.

This vote is expected by both sides to be the closest the amendment has come to being approved by Congress and sent to the states for ratification.
The House satisfied the two-thirds test when it passed the bill last year, 286-130. The last time the bill got a vote in the Senate, 2000, it failed by four votes.

If all 100 senators vote, the amendment would need 67 votes to pass. Both sides of the debate counted votes last week and agreed it now has the support of 66 senators.

But there is a question whether one of them, Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., a co-sponsor of the amendment, will have recovered from back surgery enough to attend the vote. A spokesman Monday said the senator is going to try to attend.


Fuck it seems the American Flag don't mean shit to Chimp and the Government.We just might as well use the Iraqi Flag.

knuckleboner
06-27-2006, 01:34 PM
a sad day, indeed, when the senate finally passes it.

i don't like it. i don't really respect anybody who burns a flag.

but when they do it, they're doing it to make a statement. that makes it speech. and i respect the 1st amendment.

nobody died on normandy because they were protecting a cool-looking couple of stripes and stars.

when you outlaw flag burning, you protect the cloth and burn everything America was supposed to stand for.

Guitar Shark
06-27-2006, 01:39 PM
It's nothing more than election year politics. The Republicans need to galvanize their base, so they pick issues like this, instead of the truly significant issues that should be addressed. Very sad.

Dr. Love
06-27-2006, 01:43 PM
Kinda strange how flag burning, gay marriage and the death tax are threats to our country only in even numbered years. Oh well, I'm sure in a few months the amount of threat they pose to our country will wane and they will hibernate for a few more years.

Seshmeister
06-27-2006, 01:43 PM
Pathetic.

If someone burns a flag then they are burning their own flag. They bought it(usually from China) so they can do whatever the fuck they want to with it.

Next they'll ban saying politicians are fuckwits because the 'veterans gave their lives' so you could have those fat pricks shovelling your tax money from the trough into their greedy pockets...

And so forth.

knuckleboner
06-27-2006, 01:52 PM
this one is close, though. house has overwhelmingly passed it.

and all accounts are that the senate is within 1 or 2 votes of the 67 needed. if that happens, 75% of states will ratify. guaranteed.

when that happens, start breaking out the * for your copies of the bill of rights...

(except for you, sesh. you can still go ahead and burn the union jack all you want ;))

Dr. Love
06-27-2006, 01:54 PM
eh, you'd think enough people in the country would have the sense not to start making amendments that take away rights.


...right? :(

jcook11
06-27-2006, 01:55 PM
Sad indeed you can burn the flag all you want but you can never burn what it stands for.

Guitar Shark
06-27-2006, 01:59 PM
It is comforting to see some of the conservatives here raising concerns about these sorts of things.

Seshmeister
06-27-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner

(except for you, sesh. you can still go ahead and burn the union jack all you want ;))


I honestly don't care. If the TV goes to somewhere and they have a bunch of arabs or something burning our flag all I think is 'Oof they look a bit upset'. It doesn't move me in any way. I think most people over here feel the same way.

The US is peculiar that way and it seems that the US flag is the one you see getting burnt all the time. Maybe people burn the US flag so often because some Americans get upset by that so it becomes a weakness.

Penn Jillette who is a bit of a right wing nut on a lot of issues dealt with the whole thing on his show a couple of weeks back and explained how it is patriotic to allow flag burning.

http://podcast.923freefm.com/wfny/15916.mp3

Cheers!

:gulp:

FORD
06-27-2006, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
Sad indeed you can burn the flag all you want but you can never burn what it stands for.

That's what the Chimp's done for the last 6 years.

knuckleboner
06-27-2006, 02:53 PM
come on now: after they bastardized your scottish flag you're not the least bit hostile towards the union jack?! ;)


and penn's right. there was a semi-famous quote that said something like, "i disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it."

if and when we pass this flag burning amendment, it will go something like:

"i disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it, unless i'm a part of the current majority in the country and we find what you say offensive. in that case, i disagree with what you say and i will make it illegal for you to say it. so shut up. freedom isn't free. but it is silent."

Seshmeister
06-27-2006, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by knuckleboner
and penn's right. there was a semi-famous quote that said something like, "i disagree with what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it."


Yeah I was thinking about that quote recently and suddenly realised that I wouldn't even defend to the death anything that I could say never mind some other fucker...:)

I think it was originally meant literally.

EAT MY ASSHOLE
06-27-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
It's nothing more than election year politics.

You think so? To a large extent, absolutely. But this has come up ever two years since '95. If it was ONLY about "election year politicis" 9and postruing) then this would have been a one shot deal bck in 95. And obviously, it's efficacy as an election year posture is an indication that a great deal of the populance BELIEVES in this.

This is a government for the people by the people. Abd like it or not, the people HAVer said that they dodn't beleive in gay marriage, that they DO beleive the flag is sacred, that the abolishment of the death tax is more important than rasing the minimum wage.

What's interesting here is that the amendment wouldn't be a law in and of itself, but the right for Congress to PASS law.

The word choice is also IMPORTANT: there's nothing specific about "burning" the flag, only "desecrating" it. That can have a VERY broad interpretation. Say, for example, using the flag as a background for an advertisement declaring "Impeach Bush. It's the American thing to do".

frets5150
06-28-2006, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by jcook11
Sad indeed you can burn the flag all you want but you can never burn what it stands for.


And just what does the flag stand for anyway Mr Patriot ? :rolleyes:

FORD
06-28-2006, 12:49 AM
See my "take" on this issue over in the new forum.....

LoungeMachine
06-28-2006, 01:10 AM
The RePUKES resorting to this sort of tired bullshit just shows you how nervous they are.

Scared to run on their administration's track record.