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Big Train
07-03-2006, 01:24 AM
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597

It is interesting, that the "science" nobody can agree on. I'm not a scientist, I'm neither for or against. I just don't think anyone should be forming opinions when definitive science is not 100% there. It's just not, well, very scientific.

BY RICHARD S. LINDZEN
Sunday, July 2, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

According to Al Gore's new film "An Inconvenient Truth," we're in for "a planetary emergency": melting ice sheets, huge increases in sea levels, more and stronger hurricanes, and invasions of tropical disease, among other cataclysms--unless we change the way we live now.

Bill Clinton has become the latest evangelist for Mr. Gore's gospel, proclaiming that current weather events show that he and Mr. Gore were right about global warming, and we are all suffering the consequences of President Bush's obtuseness on the matter. And why not? Mr. Gore assures us that "the debate in the scientific community is over."


That statement, which Mr. Gore made in an interview with George Stephanopoulos on ABC, ought to have been followed by an asterisk. What exactly is this debate that Mr. Gore is referring to? Is there really a scientific community that is debating all these issues and then somehow agreeing in unison? Far from such a thing being over, it has never been clear to me what this "debate" actually is in the first place.

The media rarely help, of course. When Newsweek featured global warming in a 1988 issue, it was claimed that all scientists agreed. Periodically thereafter it was revealed that although there had been lingering doubts beforehand, now all scientists did indeed agree. Even Mr. Gore qualified his statement on ABC only a few minutes after he made it, clarifying things in an important way. When Mr. Stephanopoulos confronted Mr. Gore with the fact that the best estimates of rising sea levels are far less dire than he suggests in his movie, Mr. Gore defended his claims by noting that scientists "don't have any models that give them a high level of confidence" one way or the other and went on to claim--in his defense--that scientists "don't know. ._._. They just don't know."

So, presumably, those scientists do not belong to the "consensus." Yet their research is forced, whether the evidence supports it or not, into Mr. Gore's preferred global-warming template--namely, shrill alarmism. To believe it requires that one ignore the truly inconvenient facts. To take the issue of rising sea levels, these include: that the Arctic was as warm or warmer in 1940; that icebergs have been known since time immemorial; that the evidence so far suggests that the Greenland ice sheet is actually growing on average. A likely result of all this is increased pressure pushing ice off the coastal perimeter of that country, which is depicted so ominously in Mr. Gore's movie. In the absence of factual context, these images are perhaps dire or alarming.

They are less so otherwise. Alpine glaciers have been retreating since the early 19th century, and were advancing for several centuries before that. Since about 1970, many of the glaciers have stopped retreating and some are now advancing again. And, frankly, we don't know why.







The other elements of the global-warming scare scenario are predicated on similar oversights. Malaria, claimed as a byproduct of warming, was once common in Michigan and Siberia and remains common in Siberia--mosquitoes don't require tropical warmth. Hurricanes, too, vary on multidecadal time scales; sea-surface temperature is likely to be an important factor. This temperature, itself, varies on multidecadal time scales. However, questions concerning the origin of the relevant sea-surface temperatures and the nature of trends in hurricane intensity are being hotly argued within the profession.

Even among those arguing, there is general agreement that we can't attribute any particular hurricane to global warming. To be sure, there is one exception, Greg Holland of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., who argues that it must be global warming because he can't think of anything else. While arguments like these, based on lassitude, are becoming rather common in climate assessments, such claims, given the primitive state of weather and climate science, are hardly compelling.

A general characteristic of Mr. Gore's approach is to assiduously ignore the fact that the earth and its climate are dynamic; they are always changing even without any external forcing. To treat all change as something to fear is bad enough; to do so in order to exploit that fear is much worse. Regardless, these items are clearly not issues over which debate is ended--at least not in terms of the actual science.

A clearer claim as to what debate has ended is provided by the environmental journalist Gregg Easterbrook. He concludes that the scientific community now agrees that significant warming is occurring, and that there is clear evidence of human influences on the climate system. This is still a most peculiar claim. At some level, it has never been widely contested. Most of the climate community has agreed since 1988 that global mean temperatures have increased on the order of one degree Fahrenheit over the past century, having risen significantly from about 1919 to 1940, decreased between 1940 and the early '70s, increased again until the '90s, and remaining essentially flat since 1998.

There is also little disagreement that levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere have risen from about 280 parts per million by volume in the 19th century to about 387 ppmv today. Finally, there has been no question whatever that carbon dioxide is an infrared absorber (i.e., a greenhouse gas--albeit a minor one), and its increase should theoretically contribute to warming. Indeed, if all else were kept equal, the increase in carbon dioxide should have led to somewhat more warming than has been observed, assuming that the small observed increase was in fact due to increasing carbon dioxide rather than a natural fluctuation in the climate system. Although no cause for alarm rests on this issue, there has been an intense effort to claim that the theoretically expected contribution from additional carbon dioxide has actually been detected.

Given that we do not understand the natural internal variability of climate change, this task is currently impossible. Nevertheless there has been a persistent effort to suggest otherwise, and with surprising impact. Thus, although the conflicted state of the affair was accurately presented in the 1996 text of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the infamous "summary for policy makers" reported ambiguously that "The balance of evidence suggests a discernible human influence on global climate." This sufficed as the smoking gun for Kyoto.

The next IPCC report again described the problems surrounding what has become known as the attribution issue: that is, to explain what mechanisms are responsible for observed changes in climate. Some deployed the lassitude argument--e.g., we can't think of an alternative--to support human attribution. But the "summary for policy makers" claimed in a manner largely unrelated to the actual text of the report that "In the light of new evidence and taking into account the remaining uncertainties, most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations."

In a similar vein, the National Academy of Sciences issued a brief (15-page) report responding to questions from the White House. It again enumerated the difficulties with attribution, but again the report was preceded by a front end that ambiguously claimed that "The changes observed over the last several decades are likely mostly due to human activities, but we cannot rule out that some significant part of these changes is also a reflection of natural variability." This was sufficient for CNN's Michelle Mitchell to presciently declare that the report represented a "unanimous decision that global warming is real, is getting worse and is due to man. There is no wiggle room." Well, no.

More recently, a study in the journal Science by the social scientist Nancy Oreskes claimed that a search of the ISI Web of Knowledge Database for the years 1993 to 2003 under the key words "global climate change" produced 928 articles, all of whose abstracts supported what she referred to as the consensus view. A British social scientist, Benny Peiser, checked her procedure and found that only 913 of the 928 articles had abstracts at all, and that only 13 of the remaining 913 explicitly endorsed the so-called consensus view. Several actually opposed it.

Even more recently, the Climate Change Science Program, the Bush administration's coordinating agency for global-warming research, declared it had found "clear evidence of human influences on the climate system." This, for Mr. Easterbrook, meant: "Case closed." What exactly was this evidence? The models imply that greenhouse warming should impact atmospheric temperatures more than surface temperatures, and yet satellite data showed no warming in the atmosphere since 1979. The report showed that selective corrections to the atmospheric data could lead to some warming, thus reducing the conflict between observations and models descriptions of what greenhouse warming should look like. That, to me, means the case is still very much open.







So what, then, is one to make of this alleged debate? I would suggest at least three points.

First, nonscientists generally do not want to bother with understanding the science. Claims of consensus relieve policy types, environmental advocates and politicians of any need to do so. Such claims also serve to intimidate the public and even scientists--especially those outside the area of climate dynamics. Secondly, given that the question of human attribution largely cannot be resolved, its use in promoting visions of disaster constitutes nothing so much as a bait-and-switch scam. That is an inauspicious beginning to what Mr. Gore claims is not a political issue but a "moral" crusade.

Lastly, there is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition. An earlier attempt at this was accompanied by tragedy. Perhaps Marx was right. This time around we may have farce--if we're lucky.

Mr. Lindzen is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at MIT.

jcook11
07-03-2006, 01:41 AM
"Ask all those people who were hit by the tsunami if they feel like a "threat" to this planet. This planet will shake us off like a bad case of fleas" George Carlin.

Big Train
07-03-2006, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Big Train
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First, nonscientists generally do not want to bother with understanding the science. Claims of consensus relieve policy types, environmental advocates and politicians of any need to do so.

Redballjets88
07-03-2006, 03:09 AM
this reminds me of the manbearpig episode of south park, bc Gore is running around claiming we are all doomed, but in actuality its not as bad as he says

Cathedral
07-03-2006, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by Redballjets88
this reminds me of the manbearpig episode of south park, bc Gore is running around claiming we are all doomed, but in actuality its not as bad as he says

It is as bad as he says, 1,000 years from now, we're fucked.

It's too bad that war will have already killed every living thing on the planet by then, but hey, whatever puts fear into the people, eh?

Oh, except for the cockroaches, they're poised to inherit the earth.

Big Train
07-03-2006, 03:33 AM
What exactly are you basing that on Cathedral? That is what I'm driving at. Everyone SAYS it's getting worse, but science has yet to really bear that out.

scamper
07-03-2006, 08:34 AM
There is global warming, but there's nothing we can do to stop it. Every so often ma nature likes to warm it up then she cools it back down. If you think the warm-up is bad wait until the cool-down. Snowboards for everyone, too bad we won't be here to ride it.

DEMON CUNT
07-03-2006, 10:50 AM
Fuck it. Baby Jesus is coming back any minute anyway.

bobgnote
07-03-2006, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
It is as bad as he says, 1,000 years from now, we're fucked.

It's too bad that war will have already killed every living thing on the planet by then, but hey, whatever puts fear into the people, eh?

Oh, except for the cockroaches, they're poised to inherit the earth.

What about the FAGGOTS? Looks like they fucked the roaches, yeah.

No self-respecting roach would do it with DFresh or any of the other showoffs against actual issues, since he inhabits a closet. Roaches are too clean. If faggots actually get into them, the offspring will be both an improvement AND a danger to the apartment, Joe.

Read that back. That probably implies cockroaches are Nick's folks! He is fucking the bugs, already, sorry I'm late.

GLOBAL WARMING degenerates, with proliferation of anti-humans like Big TRain.

Shakespeare's TEMPEST is coincident with the Netherlands floods, then. The SAHARA was exacerbated during the recent Etruscan and Roman anti-cimnilizations, which slashed and burned in Africa, coincident with their PUNIC WARS, against phoenicia, now LIBYA.

With human anti-scholarship comes ADD, denial of basic facts, of their alignment into obvious TRENDS.

Punk rock-******S, go off and tell me how there is no deep warming trend, how Ed VH is gonna take you to DisneyWorld and play lotsa new BROWN tunes, despite the Wally World nudge at SPEEDFREAKS, in the Aerosmith ride, lately a killer. Yeah, the Eisner era. lol.

No ISRAEL, no Disneyland, girls. Israel is ugly Fantasyland.

Al (asshat) GORE finked his HS football team for partying, pimped the drug war, wouldn't get with Carter or Henry Ford on hemp farming, even though he is a shithead farmer from Tennessee, got ugly at Arafat with all the other punks, who do that to lose to Republicans.

Al GORE is a global warming late arrival, who has undermined our funding by deregulation, who hid the illegal inflationnow killing our schools, who refused to research hemp, even the OBVIOUS USES, like energy, when he was VP with Billy Whizzer.

In short, AL GORE IS A FAT HYPOCRITE, who wants lots of MONEY, for an asshat-generally obvious publicity feature, without any remedial recommendations for POT LEGALIZATION or for GENETICALLY ENGINEERED BIODIESEL, when he has used his office to crush our funding.

Al Gore is a TRAITOR, for unfunding our military by deregulation, then for hiding the fund implosion during BRAC and two wars, he helped start, while he helped hide that the funds were flawed. What an ass.

jcook11
07-03-2006, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by bobgnote
What about the FAGGOTS? Looks like they fucked the roaches, yeah.

No self-respecting roach would do it with DFresh or any of the other showoffs against actual issues, since he inhabits a closet. Roaches are too clean. If faggots actually get into them, the offspring will be both an improvement AND a danger to the apartment, Joe.

Read that back. That probably implies cockroaches are Nick's folks! He is fucking the bugs, already, sorry I'm late.

bobgnote quote:"Faggot faggot ****** ****** faggot faggot ****** faggot faggot ******. ****** faggot ****** faggot faggot ****** faggot" :mad:

Warham
07-04-2006, 02:07 PM
Al Gore says he's been preaching for 30 years that the world's going over the cliff ten years from now.

You figure it out.

DEMON CUNT
07-04-2006, 03:15 PM
Stupid scientists! There's nothing in the Bible about global warming!

Warham
07-04-2006, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Stupid scientists! There's nothing in the Bible about global warming!

The Bible doesn't deal in hypotheticals.

DEMON CUNT
07-04-2006, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Warham
The Bible doesn't deal in hypotheticals.

Except for all of the parables.

Big Train
07-04-2006, 05:03 PM
There is nothing in scientific fact which either confirms or denies global warming either. THey sure are stupid if Gore is speaking for them.

jcook11
07-04-2006, 05:07 PM
This planet ain't going nowhere .....It has survived earthquakes, fires,floods and meteors....The planet will be just fine. Humans that's a different story.

LoungeMachine
07-04-2006, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by Warham
The Bible doesn't deal in hypotheticals.


Nor fact, truth, or reason :rolleyes:

ELVIS
07-04-2006, 10:10 PM
What an idiotic thing to say...

FORD
07-05-2006, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
What an idiotic thing to say...

It's also an idiotic thing to say there is no global warming. You, of all people, certainly know better.

Last year's hyperactive hurricane season was a direct result of global warming.

jcook11
07-05-2006, 12:40 AM
Maybe Al Gore will save us all :smilieci:

Warham
07-05-2006, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
What an idiotic thing to say...

It's typical of Lounge.

We're used to it.

His BibleŽ is the New York Times.

Warham
07-05-2006, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by FORD
It's also an idiotic thing to say there is no global warming. You, of all people, certainly know better.

Last year's hyperactive hurricane season was a direct result of global warming.

Sure, the globe is warming.

What's not been proven is that man's actions have any strong effect on said global warming.

thome
07-05-2006, 12:09 PM
All the fear promoters are on the bible channel send Swaggert some dukkets and you can all rest in peace .Scaring little old ladies
is a good job for Al retardo Goro .On the day Gore ever, ever says
anthing, that has to due with a true original thought, On His Own,
i will personally explode like that guy in Scanners.


Let's drink to the begging of the Earth 4.75 Billion years ago.

Let's drink to the Invention of the thermometer 1720 aprox.
The temps have only been written down for about 75 years.

Let's drink to the current ice age we are still in. Greenland is still melting and frozen solid.

and finally lets drink to the Scientist who say Global warming is
a real threat to the earth or that it exists at all, in any way.

oops, the aren't any, anywhere, at all. The Tele-evangalist aproach to
governing the ignorant .

I will drink to that!

jcook11
07-05-2006, 05:08 PM
AL....AL...SAVE US AL. SAVE US PLEASE AL,PLEASE!