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BigBadBrian
07-08-2006, 10:05 AM
"Defeatism"
By Oliver North
Friday, June 23, 2006


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"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival." -- Winston S. Churchill

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Sir Winston delivered that line in the House of Commons on May 13 1940, in his first address as Prime Minister. As he was speaking, the French and British armies were reeling from Hitler's onslaught through neutral Belgium. It's a good thing Churchill didn't have "war heroes" like Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., and Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., in Parliament. Otherwise Great Britain might have been compelled to surrender at Dunkirk.

Regrettably, Messer's Kerry and Murtha are but the most visible and strident members of an increasingly ambitious cult of catastrophe. Though they claim to "support the troops," this is no "loyal opposition." Instead, their party -- and a pliant press corps -- has pushed this dynamic duo to the fore in demanding that the United States abandon Iraq and forego any hope for success in the Global war on Terror. To them, and the broader capitulationist cabal to which they belong, there shall be no "good news" from the battlefield, every American casualty is regarded as a campaign issue, and only critics of the war have credibility.

It's apparent from last week's acrimonious debate in the House of Representatives and this week's raucous ranting in the Senate that their party's leadership believes that a steady drumbeat of dismal defeatism is the best way to return Democrats to power in the 2006 and 2008 elections. Whether that's true or not remains to be seen -- but the "surrender now crowd" has unquestionably emboldened our adversaries and disheartened our allies overseas. A few recent examples:

Tokyo, alarmed over North Korean willingness to flight test its multi-stage, nuclear-capable Taepo-dong II intercontinental missile has decided to withdraw its 600 troops from Iraq and bring them home in the event that an emboldened Pyongyang becomes more aggressive.

From Caracas, Venezuelan strong-man Hugo Chavez, awash in petro-dollars, is actively intervening in the upcoming Nicaraguan elections. With overt and covert help from self-described "Bolivarian Socialist" Chavez, Daniel Ortega and his Sandinistas are poised to reassert control over Nicaragua.

In Tehran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinijad, perceiving weakened American resolve, is slow-rolling a U.S.-European proposal offering incentives for Iran to abandon its nuclear enrichment program. Meanwhile, the Iranians continue their crash program to install and "spin-up" more centrifuge arrays -- essential to manufacturing weapons-grade nuclear material.

In Mogadishu, Somalia, a coalition of radical Islamic groups, calling itself the Islamic Courts Union, has proclaimed that it now administers the Somali capital under "religious law." Though U.S. and allied forces are in neighboring Djibouti, the clerics and Islamic radicals appear confident that political discord in Washington will prevent any interference with their plans for establishing a Taliban-like regime.

And to prove once again that "good news" in Iraq is "no news" back home, the leaders of the "Get Out Now" movement either ignored or derided the announcement this week by Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., and Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, that "more than 500 artillery rounds containing Sarin and Mustard gases have been found in Iraq." Rather than congratulating U.S. troops for locating and destroying these weapons that would be lethal in the hands of terrorists, the "Blame America First" crowd denounced the find as "nothing but old ammunition dating to before the first Gulf War."

Until now troops fighting the war have shrugged off the critiques. Because they understand the consequences better than most, they have largely ignored calls from the Kerry-Murtha Axis to set a "hard and fast deadline for withdrawing U.S. forces." To an extraordinary extent they have continued to re-enlist and volunteer for repeat tours of duty in the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones. And while all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, Guardsmen and Marines I have talked to in the last few weeks understand being held accountable for their actions -- they do not comprehend the politico-media fascination with negative news. Getting Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was a one-day story. American "atrocities" are news forever.

Earlier this week, shortly before the Pentagon announced that seven Marines and a U.S. Navy Corpsman would be court-martialed for crimes in Iraq, Sen. Richard "Dick" Durbin, D-Ill., stood in the well of the Senate to complain that we were fighting a war "that has gone on for more than three years -- with no end in sight." The next day a recently returned soldier I had covered in Iraq for FOX News called me up and said, "If we pull out now, the terrorists win." He then asked, "Where will we fight them next -- here?" It's a question the defeatists dare not answer.


Link (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/OliverNorth/2006/06/23/defeatism)

LoungeMachine
07-08-2006, 10:09 AM
On another one of your op-ed spam crusades, where you post this crap, and then never even offer your own insights or opinions in your own threads?

Don't think I won't dump them?

BigBadBrian
07-08-2006, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
On another one of your op-ed spam crusades, where you post this crap, and then never even offer your own insights or opinions in your own threads?

Don't think I won't dump them?

I'm sure you will.

You have a past history on not wanting opinions, op-eds, and articles that contradict your beliefs.

:cool:

LoungeMachine
07-08-2006, 10:22 AM
Bullshit.

Don't even try that crap.

It's the fact that you post this stuff over and over, and then NEVER even back up the "opinions" with your OWN aguments.

In FACT, you once posted that it was your job to post the op-eds, and OUR job to argue the merits, as if we give a shit.

When will you begin to think for yourself?


Regardless, you do this to push buttons, and deep down inside you WANT me to dump them so you can whine and start feedback threads complaining about the big bad meanie mods LMAO


Follow up your op-eds with your own arguments, or they are just spam.

Same goes with Savicki, so I call bullshit on your claim, as I've dumped his crap, which happens to be left-leaning.

And for the record, Ollie North belongs in prison.

I look forward to reading your defense of these op-eds with your own opinion.........just as soon as Hannity tells you what those opinions are.

DEMON CUNT
07-08-2006, 11:36 AM
Another Spam-A-Rific post from the Army's own Spam Master General.

http://www.modernsurf.com/spam/spamanm.gif

Nickdfresh
07-08-2006, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
"Defeatism"
By Oliver North
Friday, June 23, 2006


And then there's the time I sold weapons to those evil Islamo-fascists©! He he he, sometimes you have to get in bed with slimy fucking evil-doers in order to save Nicaragua against Communists and put weapons in the hands of ex-fascist, freedom loving baby-killers!

Did I ever tell you about the time Manuel Noriega grabbed my ass when we were discussing death squad ass-raping and torture techniques?
....


Link (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/OliverNorth/2006/06/23/defeatism)

BigBadBrian
07-08-2006, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Another Spam-A-Rific post from the Army's own Spam Master General.

http://www.modernsurf.com/spam/spamanm.gif

The above Spam animation is mine, and mine to use exclusively.

I was using it on worthless threads by Liberals (mostly FORD's DU crap) long before you came here.

You owe me royalties.

:cool:

BTW - I noticed how no liberal can formulate a decent response in this thread. Typical.

Nickdfresh
07-08-2006, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The above Spam animation is mine, and mine to use exclusively.

I was using it on worthless threads by Liberals (mostly FORD's DU crap) long before you came here.

You owe me royalties.

:cool:

BTW - I noticed how no liberal can formulate a decent response in this thread. Typical.

LOL Maybe someday you'll learn to "formulate" your own opinion, one that is supported by actual facts and not op-ed vomit written by self-serving, phony douche bags like North...

Nickdfresh
07-08-2006, 03:15 PM
BTW Brian, are you going to fall on your sword for stealing Sesh's trademark:

:gulp:

DEMON CUNT
07-08-2006, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
I was using it on worthless threads by Liberals (mostly FORD's DU crap) long before you came here.

BTW - I noticed how no liberal can formulate a decent response in this thread. Typical.

Weakest of the weak!

You are Lord of worthless threads. All Hail BigBlandButthole Lord of the Spam!

http://arfarfarf.com/review/images/spam.jpg

You haven't even offered any perspective on that treasonous criminal liar's ranting. Just your usual cut and paste jackoff.

LoungeMachine
07-08-2006, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The above Spam animation is mine, and mine to use exclusively.

I was using it on worthless threads by Liberals (mostly FORD's DU crap) long before you came here.

You owe me royalties.

:cool:

BTW - I noticed how no liberal can formulate a decent response in this thread. Typical.


I notice how YOU can't formulate your OWN opinion on this spam-thread.......and thus it is CLOSED, BITCH.

I TOLD you what would happen if you post this shit, and then can't offer your own arguments within the thread.

But I notice you do cry and whine about a can of spam pic. LMMFAO

Fucking pussy.:rolleyes:

Warham
07-09-2006, 12:11 PM
Let's see.

Brian posts an op-ed, and Lounge whines and cries about how he never posts a follow-up.

The DEMON posts a can of spam, and Brian cries about how it's his to use alone.

I'd say we're even here.

LoungeMachine
07-09-2006, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Let's see.

Brian posts an op-ed, and Lounge whines and cries about how he never posts a follow-up.

The DEMON posts a can of spam, and Brian cries about how it's his to use alone.

I'd say we're even here.

LMAO

I tend to agree.

A few things:

Brie has been warned about this repeatedly. And I would hold LIBS to the same standard, but whenever Nick, Ford, et al post an op-ed [rarely], they ALWAYS follow it up with their own thoughts. Not spam and run, like Brie.

Second, I respect WarHAM for not re-opening this thread, and respecting my decision to close it. A fellow Mod doesn't have to agree with a move.....just respect it.

Third, I think it's HILARIOUS Brie claims ownership of a can of Spam.

Oh, the irony:D


And with that, I'd like to re-open this thread and use it as a forum to discuss posting op-eds and NOT bothering to follow up with the thread-starter's own opinions and thoughts.

If I'm wrong about this, I'll stop. :cool:

But I STRONGLY believe that if an op-ed written by someone OTHER than the poster is introduced, it is incumbent on the poster to be engaged in the topic, not just pushing buttons and spamming.

-Lung

Ellyllions
07-09-2006, 09:34 PM
Wow, this is interesting.

Well, I haven't seen it as spamming but I can see why someone would say that. I've actually enjoyed the resource of having people post articles on this forum no matter how they "lean". But I've never given thought to how it affects the board if the poster doesn't respond in some way to the article.


hmm...

Nickdfresh
07-09-2006, 09:38 PM
Well, he's calmed down, but there was a time that BBB would post no less than 10 or 15 articles on the same subject from townhall.com in the space of like five minutes, effectively doing little but causing us to host a mirror for townhall.com. The redundancy was annoying and malicious and it purposefully hindered any actual discussion.

Ellyllions
07-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Now <i>that</i> would piss me off.

LoungeMachine
07-09-2006, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Ellyllions
Wow, this is interesting.

Well, I haven't seen it as spamming but I can see why someone would say that. I've actually enjoyed the resource of having people post articles on this forum no matter how they "lean". But I've never given thought to how it affects the board if the poster doesn't respond in some way to the article.


hmm...

We're NOT talking about News Articles Ell.......

We ALL post interesting News, and NEWS in its nature is not heavily slanted or loaded with agendas. [ as much as the right would like to believe]

We're strictly talking about OP-EDS here.

Which is OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS.

This place could CHOKE TO DEATH on far-left / far-right op-eds if we let it.

Being lazy [Brie] and letting OTHERS do the thinking for you is what I'm against.

Now, having said that.....




Show us your tits;)

Ellyllions
07-09-2006, 09:50 PM
I completely understand now.

and

no boobies for you.

LoungeMachine
07-09-2006, 09:53 PM
damn.

Warham
07-10-2006, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
LMAO

I tend to agree.

A few things:

Brie has been warned about this repeatedly. And I would hold LIBS to the same standard, but whenever Nick, Ford, et al post an op-ed [rarely], they ALWAYS follow it up with their own thoughts. Not spam and run, like Brie.

Second, I respect WarHAM for not re-opening this thread, and respecting my decision to close it. A fellow Mod doesn't have to agree with a move.....just respect it.

Third, I think it's HILARIOUS Brie claims ownership of a can of Spam.

Oh, the irony:D


And with that, I'd like to re-open this thread and use it as a forum to discuss posting op-eds and NOT bothering to follow up with the thread-starter's own opinions and thoughts.

If I'm wrong about this, I'll stop. :cool:

But I STRONGLY believe that if an op-ed written by someone OTHER than the poster is introduced, it is incumbent on the poster to be engaged in the topic, not just pushing buttons and spamming.

-Lung

I'm not opening any closed threads any longer.

I respect your decision, amigo.

:)

Warham
07-10-2006, 07:54 AM
Oh, and I do agree that posting 10-15 op-eds from one source in a day is ridiculous.

But on the other hand, let's not inflame in the situation by egging Brian on, shall we? :)

thome
07-10-2006, 08:39 AM
North should be hailed as a great soldier and respected for following
orders he was given .
He should also been sent to jail for refuseing to be tried in a civilian court when all this was a military affair.

They congress went about this the wrong way and honestly in my op
most any judge would throw this case out due to immproper behavior on both sides a mistrial.

This case always reminded me of the loyal friend who refuses to roll over on his friends even though he faces considerable jail time.

Is he a Fool or should he be Praised .......?

Dr. Love
07-10-2006, 08:42 AM
If you're asking for opinions, I say let him post them. If no one responds, no one responds and they slide down the thread listing. If you don't like what the threads are, reply to the ones you do care about.

I'd only draw the line when mass bumping of replyless threads started occurring.

Nickdfresh
07-10-2006, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Oh, and I do agree that posting 10-15 op-eds from one source in a day is ridiculous.

But on the other hand, let's not inflame in the situation by egging Brian on, shall we? :)

Yeah War, let's just enable assholes and give into their temper-tantrums...:rolleyes:

DEMON CUNT
07-10-2006, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Warham
...let's not inflame in the situation by egging Brian on, shall we? :)

But he's such a stupid douche!

Warham
07-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah War, let's just enable assholes and give into their temper-tantrums...:rolleyes:

Well, Nick, let's see. There were two different Brians.

The first Brian posted one or two op-eds a day, and whoever wanted to respond to them did so, and the rest fell down off the page.

The second Brian posted ten or more op-eds a day, after being called out as a spammer, etc. etc. by certain members here continually, more out of boredom than anything else. And of course, they didn't like Brian's political agenda.

Which one would you care to see more often?

Guitar Shark
07-10-2006, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Dr. Love
If you're asking for opinions, I say let him post them. If no one responds, no one responds and they slide down the thread listing. If you don't like what the threads are, reply to the ones you do care about.

I'd only draw the line when mass bumping of replyless threads started occurring.

I agree.

jcook11
07-10-2006, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yeah War, let's just enable assholes and give into their temper-tantrums...:rolleyes:

You do it with LOUNGE MACHINE all the time.

BigBadBrian
07-11-2006, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
[B]We're NOT talking about News Articles Ell.......

We ALL post interesting News, and NEWS in its nature is not heavily slanted or loaded with agendas. [ as much as the right would like to believe]

Uh huh. :rolleyes: Keep those blinders on and keep believing the main stream media is not slanted toward the Left.





We're strictly talking about OP-EDS here.
Unless they're from the Left.



Which is OTHER PEOPLE'S OPINIONS.

As are most news reports. FORD's bashing of certain news agencies is just one prime example of people thinking the media has an agenda.




This place could CHOKE TO DEATH on far-left / far-right op-eds if we let it.

No it wouldn't. :gulp:



Being lazy [Brie] and letting OTHERS do the thinking for you is what I'm against.

Amazing that you single me out. I'm quite honored. :gulp:



Now, having said that.....




Show us your tits;)
I agree. It's a rule around here. :D

Nickdfresh
07-11-2006, 09:52 AM
At it again, eh 'manchild?'

LoungeMachine
07-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Well, there no 2 posters here I respect more than Dr. Love and Sharkey......

And we can't very well cry about the fall of our democracy in this country if we don't practice it here......

So I will stop my closing of Brie Op-eds..........but not exercising my right to complain about them. [ complaining, it's what we lefties do best]

However, as Dr. noted, all of us mods retain the right to cut anyone off at the knees if it gets out of hand, or resumes the tired practice of bumping dead threads for their own amusement.

BigBadBrian
07-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Well, there no 2 posters here I respect more than Dr. Love and Sharkey......

And we can't very well cry about the fall of our democracy in this country if we don't practice it here......

So I will stop my closing of Brie Op-eds..........but not exercising my right to complain about them. [ complaining, it's what we lefties do best]

However, as Dr. noted, all of us mods retain the right to cut anyone off at the knees if it gets out of hand, or resumes the tired practice of bumping dead threads for their own amusement.

Very well. I respect your decision and will abide by it. I will meet you half way on this.

Furthermore, I will only post op-eds that I agree with, at least in part or in whole. I will point out which parts I agree with.

It would be nice if others did the same...you know who you are (DU weekly threads, "White Papers" that are nothing more than someone's opinion, Al Gore Speaks, etc., etc.)



In the past I only fired a salvo of op-eds for one of two reasons:

1. Tired of seeing the same threads for two weeks in a row at the top of the forum with very few new posts.

2. Desiring to get under someone's skin. This point ALWAYS worked. :D

In the future, I will abide by what I said in my second paragraph above and not "spam" the board.

:)

LoungeMachine
07-11-2006, 10:55 AM
:gulp:


Nice.

BigBadBrian
07-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Posts from the dupe thread of this.




BigBadBrian
Diamond Status




[Post #2]
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The LEFT is really quite pathetic in their "support" of our troops in Iraq and other areas of the Middle East and Asia.

Murtha and Kerry make fine poster boys of what is wrong with a certain political wing of our Congress.

Mr. North points out above how the Left is in bed with the main stream media.

It is true....sadly.

:)












Ellyllions
Head Fluffer



[Post #3]
Originally posted by Ellyllions
The only thing I don't like about this article is the "cut and run" mentions. I know that the Dems who are calling for a pull-out in Iraq aren't thinking "cut and run". It's more political rhetoric. Anytime, extremes are mentioned I believe wholeheartedly that it's political.

I too feel like this war is going nowhere. I too feel like we need to just let the Iraqi's have full control over what's going on. But I don't feel like it's ANY American's fault that it can't be stabilized. And it pisses me off when I hear someone in the media or the government say that.

We all know that the whole Middle East is a violent place for the most part. Hell, Iraq and Iran were at war for 10 years. It was so bad back then that the average age of the Iranian adult is 19 because they've killed off so many adult males.

No matter how hard you strategize, you can't predict or control human behavior to a point to gain complete victory. It's measured on percentages and levels of completion.

I don't think the Middle East WANTS peace. I don't think in the passed 2000 years that they've been fighting they know what peace truly is. And when people act like it's all the American's fault it's arrogance that we're better than them so we're held to a higher standard when we're human just like they are.

They need to bear some blame and real responsiblity for what's happening in their country. It would be asked of us if the tables were turned.









BigBadBrian
Diamond Status

[Post #4]
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Great post, Ellyllions.

I think most Americans would agree that the war (or more appropriately, the PEACE) hasn't gone the way we would have liked it to.

I've been a long-time critic of Rumsfeld, his strategic views on Iraq, and his policies for transforming the Armed Forces.

I just don't think many people have really thought about what happens to what we started in Iraq if we pull out.

What will happen to Iraq?

Major sectarian violence among the various sectarian Islamic groups (Sunni, Shiite, Wahabbists, Kurds) in the country? Probably.

If that happens, what then?

Will the UN send in forces to bail them out. Let's just look back to Rwanda for an example on that.

Serious points to ponder.

:cool:









Ellyllions
Head Fluffer

[Post #5]
Originally posted by Ellyllions
And should we worry about sectarian fights? The "what-if's" will boggle the mind. But the East Coast vs. West Coast bangers have been going at it since the '80's with no concern to any other country. Gang's here battle each other day-in-day-out with no concern to any other country. Is the Islamic battles amongst themselves that dangerous to neighboring countries? I dunno.

But I am tired of the Dems acting like this is all our faults. Like the Iraqi's are completely helpless in accepting responsibility for their own people's behavior.

It sure is a mess...









Hardrock69
Diamond Status

[Post #6]
Originally posted by Hardrock69
It is quite obvious whose "fault" it is.

All of this crap in Iraq would not be happening had Chimpy not gotten us involved in this bullshit.

Chimpy has no clue what the definition of "exit strategy" is (nor does he care).

The Republican Mantra: "Let's continue to sign our young men and women up for the armed forces, so they can go die in Iraq. Who cares? They are disposable assets...we don't care if they live or die, as long as we get control of our oil in Iraq"

:rolleyes:

Fucking Nazi Bastards....

But then, the Iraqis are just as much to blame....they cannot or will not take control of their own fucking country.

So it gives the Chimpy Administration the perfect opportunity to use "Iraqi Insurgents" to murder our own troops....









Ellyllions
Head Fluffer

[Post #7]
Originally posted by Ellyllions
Believe this because it came from a very distinguished Veteran of 3 foreign wars.

"The troops worst enemy is not the President, it is the Army General."

They are the ones who see troops as disposable assets and report to the President what they want the President to hear.

I don't believe that going into Iraq was a mistake. Taking Saddam out of power was a good thing overall. BUT I do think it was handled incorrectly.

An anonymous sniper isn't always a bad thing.

DEMON CUNT
07-11-2006, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Posts from the dupe thread of this.

...


Where did these quotes come from?

BigBadBrian
07-11-2006, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Where did these quotes come from?

Roth Army Forums. :D

:gulp:

Warham
07-11-2006, 04:53 PM
Every time FORD posted one of those Top 10 Conservative columns, he was posting an op-ed, and hardly anyone responded to it, but you didn't hear much moaning about it around here, did ya?

Guitar Shark
07-11-2006, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Every time FORD posted one of those Top 10 Conservative columns, he was posting an op-ed, and hardly anyone responded to it, but you didn't hear much moaning about it around here, did ya?

Dude, you're killing the kumbaya vibe in here. Let it go.

Warham
07-11-2006, 05:24 PM
Yeah, I know.

I'm getting that repressed stuff out from yesterday when I wasn't here.

I feel better already.

:)

diamondD
07-11-2006, 05:29 PM
If someone starts singing We Are The World, I'm drawing the line tho.

diamondD
07-11-2006, 05:36 PM
Now the big question is, and this will take a united effort from both sides and everyone between, how do we stop Savicki from posting his articles? :D

DEMON CUNT
07-11-2006, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Roth Army Forums.



Can you be more specific? How about a link to the thread?

Nickdfresh
07-11-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Now the big question is, and this will take a united effort from both sides and everyone between, how do we stop Savicki from posting his articles? :D

Articles? You mean annoying links to articles?

I'm working on it, I dumped like foru this morning actually...

DEMON CUNT
07-11-2006, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Roth Army Forums.

C'mon BigBland, where is the "dupe" thread that contains these quotes?

LoungeMachine
07-11-2006, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by diamondD
Now the big question is, and this will take a united effort from both sides and everyone between, how do we stop Savicki from posting his articles? :D


I've already dropped the hammer on him.:D



But for WarBOT's claim about FORD, that's crap.....

FORD HIMSELF reposted within those threads.

You've missed my point.

I'm not asking people to post in other's op-eds if they don't want to....

I'm asking people not to post op-ed UNLESS THEY themselves plan on offering their own opnions and arguments.

:cool:







We are the World.........we are the Frontline............. :D

DEMON CUNT
07-11-2006, 08:34 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Roth Army Forums.

You are a liar.

Dr. Love
07-11-2006, 11:02 PM
Damn, who let all the bitches into this forum?