Deep thinking?

[Ellyllions]

Tinged with the foul taste of Bible belt Christianity?

My dad called me a few minutes ago. After church he came home to watch a little news and got focused on the Israel/Palestine stuff being aired today. Now, my dad can barely read, or write so uneducated is an appropriate way to describe him. But, his father was an elder in a church for dad's entire life so Religion is a huge part of my dad's learning and belief structure.

Me, I believe that the Bible is a historical document that held truth in it's original form. I know that books were left out, and am fairly certain that a lot of it's meaning was lost in translation every time it was translated. I believe this about every Religious document. But I'm a whole thinker. I believe that everything is relative and that all truths = the sum of all it's parts. So, for me to say that there's more to the Bible than most Bible belt Christians believe is me just speaking my own opinion.

Anyway, my dad called to see what I thought of the Israel/Palestine problem and of course to allow me to hear his opinion. And he said some very interesting things. Bear in mind as you read of how I've described my father and why he would think like this.

He told me, "You know, it says in the Bible that those people are the cursed children. It speaks that they'd never know peace because they crucified Jesus and turned their backs on God." (not specifiying either Israel or Palestine, but both of them as a whole)

Now to him...it's literal in it's meaning. But my cynical mind started turning and I believe the true message he's reading could be the author telling us that there will always be conflict in the Middle East. For whatever reason, the seperate groups use the ultimate punishment to make points and to engage enemies. As opposed to negotiating over a pot-luck supper in a more "civilized" (for lack of a better term) way.

And then I got to thinking about my Anthropology studies in college. The whys and hows of the disappearance of entire civilizations of people...and I began to wonder.....

We know that the Middle East, the Far East, and some of Africa have the oldest civilizations on the planet....are we seeing the beginning of the end of those civilizations? The extinction of a species of human? We weren't around to see the Neanderthal's or the Mayan's disappear. There were no CNN's or FOXNews when other civilizations have ceased to exist in mass quanities...so is it possible that we're alive in the early stages of entire races/creeds/breeds of people road to extinction? Is the book of Revelation in the Holy Bible a foretelling of the violent end for that people rather than the whole of the world? I mean, when the books of the Bible were written, that was the whole world...

Pontificate please....

[binnie]

Fuckin hell, deep thinking for a sunday evening.

however, this is an interesting topic.

I don't think we are seeing the end of these civilisations.

Israel in itself isn't a civilisation, it's a nation, a Jewish nation state. Jewish culture and civilisation lives on in some many Western countires that it can never be extinct - although it is perhaps not as seprarate or disitnct there as it is in Israel.

Also, I think the question of extinction is badly put. It needs to be remembered that civilisation aren't static. Culture constantly changes and develops - it is more likely to see a radical change than an extinction.

I would be careful of calling the middle east a "species", I doubt whether they qualify as such in the same way as the Neanderthals - there is no major genetic or biological difference to chatergorise them as separate from other humans. But you do make raise a valid issue of the dissapearence of "peoples."

Also, imagine the mechanics of the disappearence of entire "peoples", it is amazing how duarable they are; the Nazis' couldn't achieve it; nor could the Turks; and recent history shows us how durable African peoples are to intense famine and Civil War/ Genocide.

In sum, I don't think that these cultures or civilisations are on the verge of disapearing. But I do think that we are on the verge of a major change in history, which will focus on the Middle East and the West's relationship with it. It remains to see how destabilised the region will become.

The other major change that will occur in the next 20 years is the rise of China as a major economic power.

[binnie]

Great idea for a thread, looking forward to others thoughts on this...

[Ellyllions]

I sure hope nothing that I said in that post made me look like a racist in any way. My firm belief is that <b>all</b> people are the same and deserve the same respect. Just want to clear that up early.

I do however believe that all humans are nothing more than a species of creature on this planet. With different "sub-species" living within imaginary boundaries that have changed throughout time. Asthetically we're all different and we all categorize our affiliations by race/creed/religion. If you take down all that shit then we're just a bunch of creatures feeding off the planet in areas that we choose to habitate.

The mention of Neanderthals and Mayans were nothing more than a point to make about groups of people that are no longer with us. I didn't intend to point out the difference of either of those to modern-day man.

Further to the point, as resiliant as any species is there are those who refuse to assimilate and become consumed by their own refusals. You mentioned China...See that culture is a very resilient culture as well and now we've got N. Korea and Japan in the mix over there so I'm again left with wonder as to what could be happening on a level below the politics and threats...

I don't see Israel disappearing. Being blown to smithereens by a Nuclear warhead maybe, but take away the country boundaries and all you're left with is a similar people with a different religious belief structure than any of it's neighbors.

Thanks for responding Binnie.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
[B]I sure hope nothing that I said in that post made me look like a racist in any way. B]


Not in the least. :cool:

[binnie]

Originally posted by Ellyllions


Thanks for responding Binnie.

No problem.

And no, nothing you said made you look like a racist.

[Warham]

I'm sure Lounge would love to pontificate about the Holy Scriptures®.

:D

[Nickdfresh]

I think they may be cursed because the oil under them, and the stagnation of their culture...

This should be required viewing: http://syrianamovie.warnerbros.com/

[jcook11]

Originally posted by Warham
I'm sure Lounge would love to pontificate about the Holy Scriptures®.

:D

LOUNGE is pretty good about not ponticating on subjects that he knows nothing about.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I think they may be cursed because the oil under them, and the stagnation of their culture...


Good point about the oil.

What do you mean about their culture being stagnant?

[Nickdfresh]

There's a part in the movie where Matt Damon's character and goes off on the Prince-heir-to-the-throne of 'Syriana' in which decries the shortsightedness, backwardness and corruption of some Arab kingdoms (it's a thinly veiled barb at Saudi Arabia)...

[Ellyllions]

Well, Muslim's refuse to assimilate to today's world. They see most all modern ways as sinful. That's why they call all Western Civilizations, infidels. We're unHoly, and "devils" because our women have a voice, we don't pray to Allah, and we allow homosexuality...just to name a few.

The latter quite behooves me because I have a few friends in Iraq and Afghanistan. One emails me almost weekly and one of his emails back around Christmas time was telling me about him actually seeing a group of Iraqi men in a circle taking turns fucking a camel in broad daylight, in public. NOT KIDDING! He actually saw this as he was traveling from his station to the airport to come home for a couple of weeks for the holidays. So homosexuality is wrong but that isn't? Does not compute...

Anyway, refusing to assimilate in itself can be a problem for any group of people. The world continues to turn and yet they fight hard to keep it where it is. It becomes a losing battle just ask the American Indian. Not saying that they should've assimilated, just that their refusal to attempt to somewhat blend in was detrimental to their prosperity and level of comfort.