The 10 Worst (and 5 Best) Line-Up Changes in Rock History

[CherryLawn]

By John Moe, Special to MSN Music

The news that members of the Cars would be releasing a new album, "It's Alive," under the semi-new name of the New Cars, with veteran rocker Todd Rundgren taking over lead vocals for Ric Ocasek (and the late Benjamin Orr), was met with many reactions among music fans. Some were furious, some perplexed, some giddy with excitement, but for many the prevailing reaction was one of fear.

When a band replaces its lead singer, it loses -- both literally and figuratively -- its voice. True, guitarists, bassists and drummers have their own unique style, but if there was a Who record without Roger Daltrey, it would freak you out right away because that's not what the band is supposed to sound like. Sometimes the new singer is a vast improvement, guiding the group to a better sound than it had ever produced. Occasionally the judgment varies widely depending on which part of the fan base one asks (Pink Floyd enthusiasts can debate the merits of Messrs. Barrett, Waters and Gilmour all day long, and frequently do). More often, the singer swap is a demonstration of hubris, an assertion by the instrumentalists that they are the real geniuses behind the band and that the singer is just a replaceable cog. It's still too early for history to judge Rundgren's membership in the (New) Cars, but the occasion calls for an examination of other lead-singer lineup changes in rock history.

THE 10 WORST LEAD-SINGER REPLACEMENTS:

10. Mary Ramsay replaces Natalie Merchant in 10,000 Maniacs (1993)
Vocalist Merchant gave ample notice -- two full years -- before departing 10,000 Maniacs and embarking on a solo career. Rather than rename the band 9,999 Maniacs, which would have required changing all their letterhead and ordering new business cards, the remaining members brought in longtime friend of the band Mary Ramsay, who then served as lead vocalist on 1997's "Love Among The Ruins" and 1999's "The Earth Pressed Flat." Ramsay was a skilled singer with a strong, clear voice, which sounded vaguely like her predecessor's but lacked the quirky charm. The effect was akin to biting into a chocolate-chip cookie only to find that it's actually oatmeal raisin.

9. Steve Augeri replaces Steve Perry in Journey (1998)
Over the course of their long history, Journey had skillfully established its brand: strident arena rock that was hard enough for the boyfriends and sentimental enough for the girlfriends. So when Steve Perry departed, the remaining members decided the best way to preserve the brand was to go the doppelganger route. They replaced him with Steve Augeri, who sounds like Steve Perry, looks like Steve Perry and whose name rhymes with Steve Perry. The only problem: He wasn't Steve Perry. It doesn't take long to note the huge gap between Perry's powerfully nuanced delivery and Augeri's bombastic, workmanlike approach. The tepid response to 2001's "Arrival" and 2005's "Generations" could indicate that the band's sound had become outdated, but it's more likely that they had long owed their success to the original Steve.

8. Ronnie James Dio replaces Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath (1979)
Reality TV fans can be excused for not realizing that doddering house husband Ozzy Osbourne was once a full-fledged rock god, capable of inspiring armies of headbanging youth and scaring the bejeezus out of parents. As the charismatic front man for seminal metal band Black Sabbath, Ozzy planted songs such as "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" in the pantheon of legendary tunes. When he went solo (OK, technically, he got fired for being too loaded, which in Sabbath was saying something), the remaining members opted to swap in Dio, who resembled not so much a rock god as an irate gnome. The grandiose theatricality of the group, so ably served by Osbourne, could not be sustained by Dio, relegating Sabbath to the status of Just Another Leather-Clad Satan-Loving Metal Band. Dio was not on the job long before departing to front his own eponymous group, which, like Black Sabbath, was forever overshadowed by Ozzy.

7. J.D. Fortune replaces Michael Hutchence in INXS (2005)
Some day soon, all dictionaries will feature line-drawing illustrations of INXS and their new lead singer, J.D. Fortune, under the entry for the word "creepy." Original lead singer Hutchence was found dead of an apparent suicide in 1997. After experimenting with a few short-term replacements, including Terence Trent D'Arby(!), the band decided the best way to honor their late colleague and friend was to participate in a reality show tournament aimed at finding a new vocalist. The ultimate "winner" of the series was Fortune, who fronted the band on their 2005 album, "Switch." Whereas Hutchence had a sexy, smoldering presence, Fortune's uninspired delivery sounds manufactured by a corporation, which, when you think about it, it was.

6. Tim "Ripper" Owens replaces Rob Halford in Judas Priest (1996)
When Major League Baseball teams need a new player, they often call one up from the minors. The new guy might not be used to playing in front of huge crowds and their huge expectations, but at least he's been in situations that are similar. So you can almost understand Judas Priest's reasoning in hiring Owens to replace original lead singer Halford in 1996. Owens was plucked from the (perhaps deserved) obscurity of Priest tribute band British Steel to replace the guy he had long been imitating and recorded two albums, 1997's "Jugulator" and 2001's "Demolition," a title that may have referred to what became of any remaining credibility the Owens-led group had with its remaining fans. Still, metalheads ought to be thankful to Owens, since his bland, shouty delivery helped everyone better appreciate the talents of Halford, who returned to the band in 2003.

5. Ray Wilson replaces Phil Collins in Genesis (1997)
Genesis had pulled off the rare feat of being, essentially, two well-regarded but completely different bands, both under the same name. The early, Peter Gabriel-led years saw the group as a prog-rock fave, while the Phil Collins era saw them become pop superstars. Three in a row, however, was apparently too much to ask. The Genesis of lead singer Ray Wilson was about as memorable as the name "Ray Wilson." Granted, the bar is set pretty high when you join a band with a legacy of Gabriel and Collins, but the lifeless, generic-sounding and rapidly jettisoned Wilson appeared to barely even attempt the jump.

4. Sammy Hagar replaces David Lee Roth in Van Halen (1985)
The band was named Van Halen after brothers, guitarist Eddie and drummer Alex, but while their pop-friendly rock hooks might have been the heart of the group, the hyperactive, narcissistic and self-mockingly sexy Roth was Van Halen's soul. When the long-building ego explosions necessitated Diamond Dave's departure, Hagar was brought in and everything changed. Yes, they had plenty of success. Yes, they had tons of enthusiastic fans. Yes, they sold a lot of records. But Hagar's one-note sing-screeching on tunes like "Right Now" was bland and a little depressing compared to irreverent Roth numbers like "Hot for Teacher" and "Running with the Devil." It was like that guy you knew in college who would stay up partying all night but then got a job in a brokerage firm, switched to light beer and went home by midnight. He might have had more money, but you just didn't want to hang out with him anymore.

[FORD]

http://ewancient.lysator.liu.se/pic/fanq/w/e/webster3/jabba.jpg

[CherryLawn]

How old are you again?
What a man...

[FORD]

Hey, at least I didn't put up the usual overexposed tittie pictures.

[CherryLawn]

Originally posted by FORD
Hey, at least I didn't put up the usual overexposed tittie pictures.

Yeah, that's big of you.

[bastardog]

OK guys but look at this........in the same MSN site. Those bastards are bashing Dave :mad:


... AND FIVE LEAD SINGER SOLO PROJECTS THAT SUCKED:

Lindsey Buckingham
Taking his cue from bandmate and former paramour Stevie Nicks, Buckingham, whom everyone acknowledges was the real producing/arranging (not to mention singing/songwriting) mastermind behind Fleetwood Mac's biggest successes, struck out on his own for a series of solo albums, beginning with 1985's "Go Insane," which could have just as easily been called "Go Nowhere." Much of Buckingham's solo stuff was excellent ("Go Insane" is one of the great lost gems of the '80s, and remember "Holiday Road," the theme song to "National Lampoon's Vacation"?), but it just didn't connect with audiences the way he did when he went back to the Mac, which he invariably did.

Rob Thomas
The lead singer from '90s MOR hitmakers Matchbox 20 (strike one) had already enjoyed a huge success as the co-writer (with one Carlos Santana) and singer of "Smooth," one of 2000's most inescapable pop phenomena. Thus emboldened, Thomas left the smoldering ashes of his old band (whose sophomore album failed to reach the heights of its first) and went the route of so many lead singers before him, issuing "Something to Be" in 2005. You remember "Something to Be," right? The Rob Thomas solo album? Rob Thomas? From Matchbox 20? No, Matchbox Twenty. They were a band in the '90s. No? Oh well, never mind.

Bryan Ferry
The debonair frontman of legendary British proto-glam rockers Roxy Music began making solo albums while his band was still very much a going concern. Unfortunately, he just kept on making them, despite bandmate resentment, critical scorn and general public indifference (with one or two notable exceptions). But where Roxy were fierce, stylish revolutionaries who breathed new life into the tired corpse of early-to-mid '70s rock, Ferry albums were curiously un-daring, offering ironic covers (his boogie band treatment of Dylan's "A Hard Rain's A Gonna Fall" is representative, but his version of John Lennon's "Jealous Guy," issued shortly after Lennon's murder, was a minor hit), the requisite stab at standards (the "As Time Goes By" LP) and a lot of songs that simply weren't as good as the material he brought to Roxy Music. No wonder then, that the band has weathered line-up changes and break-ups, only to reunite time and time again.

Susanna Hoffs
Here's the short version: Hoffs was by far the loveliest of the Bangles, a cool, talented all-female band that emerged from the retro-psychedelic paisley underground scene of mid-'80s L.A., only to be turned by producers and video directors into a bland (but very successful) glamour group. (The same thing happened to the Go-Gos, who had been a legitimate late punk/new wave band before the MTV airbrush turned them into candyfloss.) Despite being demonstrably prettier than her bandmates, Hoffs was only a part of an ensemble. The camera always tended to single her out (did I mention that she was incredibly beautiful), however, and it wasn't long before she was perceived to be the group's leader. It wasn't long after that perception took hold that she starred in her own terrible movie (1987's "The Allnighter" -- directed by her mom!). After the band released its most successful single, "Eternal Flame," in 1989, Hoffs made her solo debut with "When You're a Boy" in 1991. It was unmemorable and didn't sell well, so five years later she made another (Susanna Hoffs,"). It didn't fare much better. In 2003, the Bangles reunited, made a record ("Doll Revolution") and toured.

David Lee Roth
Pretty much the boilerplate cautionary tale for what happens when lead singers get too big for their (admittedly skin-tight) britches. Roth was the lead singer and unqualified star of Van Halen from the band's inception to its (then-) biggest success, the album "1984," which featured "Jump," "Panama" and "Hot For Teacher." The videos for these songs featured indelible images of Roth jumping, dancing and otherwise mugging for any camera that cared to watch him. He was a rock god, too big for any band that couldn't be bothered to use his name. So solo he went, and scored a couple of hits with novelty covers ("California Girls," "Just a Gigolo") whose videos made quick work of his now familiar TV persona, Diamond Dave. Then he made a proper record, then he made another and another and maybe even another. They all tanked, while Van Halen went on, with a mediocre replacement singer (Sammy Hagar) in tow, to bigger and -- well, if not better, then certainly bigger -- things (read about Sammy Hagar and other replacement lead singers). Roth was last seen flailing as a NYC radio host and desperately trying to recapture some of the old Van Halen mojo with a bluegrass band on "The Tonight Show." He was right about one thing: in a situation like that, you really might as well jump.

[Mr Badguy]

Originally posted by CherryLawn
By John Moe, Special to MSN Music

The news that members of the Cars would be releasing a new album, "It's Alive," under the semi-new name of the New Cars, with veteran rocker Todd Rundgren taking over lead vocals for Ric Ocasek (and the late Benjamin Orr), was met with many reactions among music fans. Some were furious, some perplexed, some giddy with excitement, but for many the prevailing reaction was one of fear.

When a band replaces its lead singer, it loses -- both literally and figuratively -- its voice. True, guitarists, bassists and drummers have their own unique style, but if there was a Who record without Roger Daltrey, it would freak you out right away because that's not what the band is supposed to sound like. Sometimes the new singer is a vast improvement, guiding the group to a better sound than it had ever produced. Occasionally the judgment varies widely depending on which part of the fan base one asks (Pink Floyd enthusiasts can debate the merits of Messrs. Barrett, Waters and Gilmour all day long, and frequently do). More often, the singer swap is a demonstration of hubris, an assertion by the instrumentalists that they are the real geniuses behind the band and that the singer is just a replaceable cog. It's still too early for history to judge Rundgren's membership in the (New) Cars, but the occasion calls for an examination of other lead-singer lineup changes in rock history.

THE 10 WORST LEAD-SINGER REPLACEMENTS:

10. Mary Ramsay replaces Natalie Merchant in 10,000 Maniacs (1993)
Vocalist Merchant gave ample notice -- two full years -- before departing 10,000 Maniacs and embarking on a solo career. Rather than rename the band 9,999 Maniacs, which would have required changing all their letterhead and ordering new business cards, the remaining members brought in longtime friend of the band Mary Ramsay, who then served as lead vocalist on 1997's "Love Among The Ruins" and 1999's "The Earth Pressed Flat." Ramsay was a skilled singer with a strong, clear voice, which sounded vaguely like her predecessor's but lacked the quirky charm. The effect was akin to biting into a chocolate-chip cookie only to find that it's actually oatmeal raisin.

9. Steve Augeri replaces Steve Perry in Journey (1998)
Over the course of their long history, Journey had skillfully established its brand: strident arena rock that was hard enough for the boyfriends and sentimental enough for the girlfriends. So when Steve Perry departed, the remaining members decided the best way to preserve the brand was to go the doppelganger route. They replaced him with Steve Augeri, who sounds like Steve Perry, looks like Steve Perry and whose name rhymes with Steve Perry. The only problem: He wasn't Steve Perry. It doesn't take long to note the huge gap between Perry's powerfully nuanced delivery and Augeri's bombastic, workmanlike approach. The tepid response to 2001's "Arrival" and 2005's "Generations" could indicate that the band's sound had become outdated, but it's more likely that they had long owed their success to the original Steve.

8. Ronnie James Dio replaces Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath (1979)
Reality TV fans can be excused for not realizing that doddering house husband Ozzy Osbourne was once a full-fledged rock god, capable of inspiring armies of headbanging youth and scaring the bejeezus out of parents. As the charismatic front man for seminal metal band Black Sabbath, Ozzy planted songs such as "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" in the pantheon of legendary tunes. When he went solo (OK, technically, he got fired for being too loaded, which in Sabbath was saying something), the remaining members opted to swap in Dio, who resembled not so much a rock god as an irate gnome. The grandiose theatricality of the group, so ably served by Osbourne, could not be sustained by Dio, relegating Sabbath to the status of Just Another Leather-Clad Satan-Loving Metal Band. Dio was not on the job long before departing to front his own eponymous group, which, like Black Sabbath, was forever overshadowed by Ozzy.

7. J.D. Fortune replaces Michael Hutchence in INXS (2005)
Some day soon, all dictionaries will feature line-drawing illustrations of INXS and their new lead singer, J.D. Fortune, under the entry for the word "creepy." Original lead singer Hutchence was found dead of an apparent suicide in 1997. After experimenting with a few short-term replacements, including Terence Trent D'Arby(!), the band decided the best way to honor their late colleague and friend was to participate in a reality show tournament aimed at finding a new vocalist. The ultimate "winner" of the series was Fortune, who fronted the band on their 2005 album, "Switch." Whereas Hutchence had a sexy, smoldering presence, Fortune's uninspired delivery sounds manufactured by a corporation, which, when you think about it, it was.

6. Tim "Ripper" Owens replaces Rob Halford in Judas Priest (1996)
When Major League Baseball teams need a new player, they often call one up from the minors. The new guy might not be used to playing in front of huge crowds and their huge expectations, but at least he's been in situations that are similar. So you can almost understand Judas Priest's reasoning in hiring Owens to replace original lead singer Halford in 1996. Owens was plucked from the (perhaps deserved) obscurity of Priest tribute band British Steel to replace the guy he had long been imitating and recorded two albums, 1997's "Jugulator" and 2001's "Demolition," a title that may have referred to what became of any remaining credibility the Owens-led group had with its remaining fans. Still, metalheads ought to be thankful to Owens, since his bland, shouty delivery helped everyone better appreciate the talents of Halford, who returned to the band in 2003.

5. Ray Wilson replaces Phil Collins in Genesis (1997)
Genesis had pulled off the rare feat of being, essentially, two well-regarded but completely different bands, both under the same name. The early, Peter Gabriel-led years saw the group as a prog-rock fave, while the Phil Collins era saw them become pop superstars. Three in a row, however, was apparently too much to ask. The Genesis of lead singer Ray Wilson was about as memorable as the name "Ray Wilson." Granted, the bar is set pretty high when you join a band with a legacy of Gabriel and Collins, but the lifeless, generic-sounding and rapidly jettisoned Wilson appeared to barely even attempt the jump.

4. Sammy Hagar replaces David Lee Roth in Van Halen (1985)
The band was named Van Halen after brothers, guitarist Eddie and drummer Alex, but while their pop-friendly rock hooks might have been the heart of the group, the hyperactive, narcissistic and self-mockingly sexy Roth was Van Halen's soul. When the long-building ego explosions necessitated Diamond Dave's departure, Hagar was brought in and everything changed. Yes, they had plenty of success. Yes, they had tons of enthusiastic fans. Yes, they sold a lot of records. But Hagar's one-note sing-screeching on tunes like "Right Now" was bland and a little depressing compared to irreverent Roth numbers like "Hot for Teacher" and "Running with the Devil." It was like that guy you knew in college who would stay up partying all night but then got a job in a brokerage firm, switched to light beer and went home by midnight. He might have had more money, but you just didn't want to hang out with him anymore.

Where is the rest of this?

[binnie]

Ronnie was not a bad replacement for Ozzy!!

Mob Rules and Heaven & Hell rocked, although in different way from Ozzy era Sabbs

[WARF]

Here's top 40 worst line-up changes for Fab Shadow...

ASH
Cherry Lawn
CherryLawn
sweettalkinhoney
Hells Belle
Ms.Conduct
Rikksgirl
WRONG WAY
Imssoldman
Rogue's guy
ValriBertnernie
Still Waiting
Alcoholic
Brown Sugar
DevilInDisguise
DLoveR
Drew Is Hot
Echo Pedal
ED1
Elegntly Wasted
EVHwannabe316
Fabshado
Fabsterpussycat
Fabulous Shadow
Gifted 1
Harajuku Lover
KillerQueen 69
Marrichino
Max's Man
OppsIDidItAgain
Original Sin
ou812maxi
Please Stand Up
Queeya Heeya
Shirley
Lil Bo Peep
Lady Cab Driver
Whistling Dixie

[bastardog]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Where is the rest of this?

http://music.msn.com/music/thismonthinmusic/replacements

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

8. Ronnie James Dio replaces Ozzy Osbourne in Black Sabbath (1979)
Reality TV fans can be excused for not realizing that doddering house husband Ozzy Osbourne was once a full-fledged rock god, capable of inspiring armies of headbanging youth and scaring the bejeezus out of parents. As the charismatic front man for seminal metal band Black Sabbath, Ozzy planted songs such as "Iron Man" and "Paranoid" in the pantheon of legendary tunes. When he went solo (OK, technically, he got fired for being too loaded, which in Sabbath was saying something), the remaining members opted to swap in Dio, who resembled not so much a rock god as an irate gnome. The grandiose theatricality of the group, so ably served by Osbourne, could not be sustained by Dio, relegating Sabbath to the status of Just Another Leather-Clad Satan-Loving Metal Band. Dio was not on the job long before departing to front his own eponymous group, which, like Black Sabbath, was forever overshadowed by Ozzy.

What the fuck? RJD was awesome

[bastardog]

Originally posted by binnie
Ronnie was not a bad replacement for Ozzy!!

Mob Rules and Heaven & Hell rocked, although in different way from Ozzy era Sabbs

Dio rocks the World and Ozzy is a buffon

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by bastardog
Dio rocks the World and Ozzy is a buffon

Gracias! I thought that I was the only one.

[binnie]

Originally posted by MERRYKISSMASS2U
Gracias! I thought that I was the only one.

Nope, there are plenty of people who think Ronnie is awesome.

[binnie]

Originally posted by bastardog
Dio rocks the World and Ozzy is a buffon

Dio does indeed rock!

Ozzy is now a buffoon, but back in the day he was a God!

[bastardog]

He was a semi-god until team up with Zakk Wylde. After that all started to roll downhill

[binnie]

Originally posted by bastardog
He was a semi-god until team up with Zakk Wylde. After that all started to roll downhill

Yep, songs were certainly of a lesser quality, but he was still good live.

Anyoone who played on the first 6 Sabbath records is a God!

[Unchainme]

Originally posted by WARF
Here's top 40 worst line-up changes for Fab Shadow...

ASH
Cherry Lawn
CherryLawn
sweettalkinhoney
Hells Belle
Ms.Conduct
Rikksgirl
WRONG WAY
Imssoldman
Rogue's guy
ValriBertnernie
Still Waiting
Alcoholic
Brown Sugar
DevilInDisguise
DLoveR
Drew Is Hot
Echo Pedal
ED1
Elegntly Wasted
EVHwannabe316
Fabshado
Fabsterpussycat
Fabulous Shadow
Gifted 1
Harajuku Lover
KillerQueen 69
Marrichino
Max's Man
OppsIDidItAgain
Original Sin
ou812maxi
Please Stand Up
Queeya Heeya
Shirley
Lil Bo Peep
Lady Cab Driver
Whistling Dixie


LMMFAO!! How many fucking alias has she fucking had?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Unchainme
LMMFAO!! How many fucking alias has she fucking had?

That's only the KNOWN list for THIS board. It doesn't count others she used at Links, the Pasture Dump, Chelle's place or any other board she's whored herself all over.

[CherryLawn]

Originally posted by WARF
Here's top 40 worst line-up changes for Fab Shadow...

ASH
Cherry Lawn
CherryLawn
sweettalkinhoney
Hells Belle
Ms.Conduct
Rikksgirl
WRONG WAY
Imssoldman
Rogue's guy
ValriBertnernie
Still Waiting
Alcoholic
Brown Sugar
DevilInDisguise
DLoveR
Drew Is Hot
Echo Pedal
ED1
Elegntly Wasted
EVHwannabe316
Fabshado
Fabsterpussycat
Fabulous Shadow
Gifted 1
Harajuku Lover
KillerQueen 69
Marrichino
Max's Man
OppsIDidItAgain
Original Sin
ou812maxi
Please Stand Up
Queeya Heeya
Shirley
Lil Bo Peep
Lady Cab Driver
Whistling Dixie

Handful of those were not me WARF... exactly 16 of them wern't.

[CherryLawn]

Originally posted by FORD
That's only the KNOWN list for THIS board. It doesn't count others she used at Links, the Pasture Dump, Chelle's place or any other board she's whored herself all over.

Chelle's place? Ummm NO... Never

Ford, stop living in the past... Many years have gone by since all that.
Move on!

[sadaist]

I haven't really liked much Ozzy has done since Jake E. Lee left the band. But I think he was better in Sabbath than Dio. I preferred Dio solo.

[sadaist]

You left off the best part

#1

1. Gary Cherone replaces Sammy Hagar in Van Halen (1997)
Van Halen still had fans in the Sammy era, many of whom opted to call the group Van Hagar as a way of recognizing the inherent differences between the Roth and Hagar administrations. But when another nasty bout of Lead Singer Syndrome struck, leaving Hagar out of the lineup (and headed toward a not-surprisingly contentious tour with Roth), the group was in the market for a lead singer that would fit their sound and be embraced by Van Halen/Hagar loyalists. But instead of hiring someone like that, they went with Cherone, formerly of the non-extreme band Extreme. Van Cherone released one album, "Van Halen III," the cover art of which featured a man being shot in the stomach by a cannon ball, a feeling roughly akin to listening to the album itself. Cherone's boring singing style, bland lyrics and overall suckiness managed to make Van Halen sound like the last-place finisher in a Van Halen tribute band tournament. He parted the band amicably, consigning fans to years of therapy spent trying to recover from the ordeal. Meanwhile, the world notes the descending quality of VH singers and worries what the band will offer next. Van Guarini? Van Hung?

[FORD]

Originally posted by sadaist
You left off the best part



Wasn't relevant to her purpose. Which was to come here and stir up shit.

[monkeythe]

Originally posted by sadaist
Van Guarini? Van Hung? [/B]
That's classic

[bueno bob]

Finally read this...

#6 and #8 are total bullshit...

[bueno bob]

John Moe will be getting a nice counter-point in an hour or two...

:)

[FORD]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Finally read this...

#6 and #8 are total bullshit...

I expected the DIO thing would piss you off, and I would agree that band was good in their own right (I don't compare them to the original Black Sabbath)

But Ripper? You're really not defending that wannabe, are you?

[bueno bob]

Well, then again, why bother? He's half right with his list, I'll give him that much...in regards to Ripper and Dio...just sounds like played it safe for the fans of Ozzy and Rob, who admittedly are more "face" than Dio or Ripper ever will be, I guess...

He missed the point that Angel of Retribution was really a piece of shit though...it certainly wasn't any measure of a "triumphant" come back album, I don't care who says what...AoR was horse shit and the next album doesn't sound very promising, either...

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by FORD
I expected the DIO thing would piss you off, and I would agree that band was good in their own right (I don't compare them to the original Black Sabbath)

But Ripper? You're really not defending that wannabe, are you?

Ripper had an impossible job...but I know the dude offhand...and he did as well as he could with it...

I will say this - had he been allowed to write, Jugulator and Demolition would have been ten times better, trust me. Any fault with those albums lands square on Glenn's shoulders...

[bueno bob]

FORD, did you ever here Ripper's one written song with Priest, called "What's My Name"? It was a bonus track or a B side from Demolition...

IMO, it's the best song they put to tape during his tenure and proof positive that Tim should have been allowed to contribute...he could have been the "Dio" to Priest, honestly.

[FORD]

No, I haven't heard that one. If the guy can write, then I hope he does so, in his own band (which I haven't heard either)

It was just ridiculous for "Priest" to carry on with a wannabe singer, just as it was for Journey or any other band that tried it.

As far as I'm concerned, Halford IS Priest, but I would have had a lot more respect for them if they had attempted something with another singer who wasn't riding Rob's dick.

(literally or figuratively, in his case)

[bueno bob]

Heheheheh...you know, I'm sure Al Atkins was available...

:D

Ripper's in Iced Earth now, and I believe he has another band as well. Guess he writes in both, although I haven't had the chance to hear either...apparently seems to be doing alright with the Iced Earth fans...

[bueno bob]

Sad thing of it is...Al Atkins is STILL out there to this day doing Priest sets of material from the first two albums...

Pathetic, really...even worse than Paul Di'Anno doing hacked-up Maiden covers for a living...

[RuzDNailz]

Hmmm, you seemed to have missed 2 big ones.

Kelly Hanson replaces Lou Gramm in Foreigner

I was VERY close to buying a ticket for the upcoming concert at Casinorama foolishly thinking that at least Lou was a part of the band.
I checked the Foreigner website and was stunned to learn that the only person left in that ever-changing band was the original guitar player! Kelly looks like a Lou Gramm clone who tries very hard to emulate him. The video shows a bootleg of a concert with them opening up with 'Jukebox Hero' and it was purely the new members hoping to recapture the glory the original band had many years ago.
Poor Lou gained a ton of weight because of his brain surgery, but at least he is performing with his band which mostly consists of his brothers. The 'rebuilt band' at least has the late John Bonham's son Jason on drums, but that won't persuade me to see this band playing a charade. The last straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that Mick Jones produced 5150! He talks about the band being 'newer and better'. The band is nothing but a shadow of what it was 30 years ago.


John Tristao replaces John Fogerty in CCR

Another concert I bypassed 2 years ago. Ticketmaster screwed me over by sending me the wrong ticket dates to the Casinorama show I was supposed to go to. The band does try VERY hard to sound like the original line-up, but let's face it, John Fogerty was the main guy in the band and it took up to 2 members to replace him! The lead singer does a lot of shouting, but his voice is very gruffy to sound like Fogerty. Unfortunately Tom passed away but his contrabution to the band was that of 3 basic chords on an accoustic. I was redeemed by seeing John Fogerty live months later and he put on a show that was far superior to the show that these guys put on. Funny thing was Elliot Easton was just on his way out to help build 'The New Cars'. But Creedence Clearwater Revisited was probably one of the first bands to be rebuilt and slightly change the name.

[RuzDNailz]

Paul Dianno is basically living off the fame of the first 2 Maiden albums. Heck, his main gimmick is 'The Beast'! It's nice of him to perform his hits with the band, but what else can he do?

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by RuzDNailz
Paul Dianno is basically living off the fame of the first 2 Maiden albums. Heck, his main gimmick is 'The Beast'! It's nice of him to perform his hits with the band, but what else can he do?

Call Bruce Dickinson and Blaze Bayley assorted sundry names...which he does on a regular basis, whenever somebody bothers to interview him about something...well, that and lie his ass off whenever somebody interviews him about where he is, what he's doing, etc...Paul Di'Anno spews so much shit whenever somebody interviews him he makes Hagar look like the patron saint of honesty...

EVERY ALBUM Di'Anno has released or been involved with since he got sacked from Maiden has featured one (or more) of three things:

1. A remake of something from either "Iron Maiden" or "Killers";

2. Multpile remakes of songs from "Iron Maiden" and/or "Killers";

3. ALL tracks are remakes of songs from "Iron Maiden" and/or "Killers".

The man's been a musical one-trick pony since 1981 and why he even thinks he has some credibility in the music world today is completely beyond me...

[RuzDNailz]

He hooked up with the first Def Leppard guitar player Pete Willis and
collaborated with him for a bit. That lasted as long as the flavour of bubblegum!

[Loons The Great]

GUNT

[binnie]

I can't think of many good replacements.

John Bush for Joey Belladonna in anthrax springs to mind....

[bueno bob]

I kinda preferred Joey, honestly...

Just me...

[bueno bob]

Best and/or most succesful replacements ever...

1. Bruce Dickinson for Paul Di'Anno (Iron Maiden)
2. Ronnie James Dio for Ozzy Osbourne (Black Sabbath)
3. Rob Halford for Al Atkins (Judas Priest)
4. Ian Gillan for Rod Evans (Deep Purple)
5. Scott Weinrich for Scott Reagers (Saint Vitus)
6. Jimi Jamieson for Dave Bickler (Survivor)

All of those went on to either A) Save the band; B) rededicate the band; and/or C) lead the band to bigger success than the previous vocalist achieved with them...

[binnie]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I kinda preferred Joey, honestly...

Just me...

I prefered the Joey era material, by far.

Although I think Sound of the White Noise is a killer, the next two Anthrax records weren't...

However, I thought Bush added something to the band because he was so diffenrent from Joey - it wasn't someone trying to copy the original.

I also thought his voice suited the songs more, lower and more muscular.

But I relaise I am in the minority prefering him as a singer....

[sadaist]

Originally posted by binnie
I can't think of many good replacements.

John Bush for Joey Belladonna in anthrax springs to mind....


John is a better singer, and Anthrax became a better metal band with him. But to me they didn't stand out like they did with Joey. He made them unique and stand out from the crowd. Spreading the Disease & Among The Living are 2 of my favorite albums.

Brian Johnson did a helluva job in Bon Scott's place. Back In Black is a monster.

[FORD]

Originally posted by sadaist


Brian Johnson did a helluva job in Bon Scott's place. Back In Black is a monster.

Brian Johnson allowed the group to recover and carry on where other bands had definitely failed before. And they're still going which is worthy of respect.

But in no way was Brian an improvement for Bon Scott. I would have rather had them make 4 more albums with Bon and then break up than make the same album over and over again as they have with Brian Johnson.

Every one of the 6 studio albums Ac/Dc made with Bon Scott has something a little different on it. Hell, even the Ramones, who took great pride in keeping their music simple, for the most part, had more diversity in their material than Johnson's Ac/Dc.

The singer change didn't make them suck, like Van Hagar, but it did make them lazy to some extent.

[WACF]

Originally posted by binnie
I prefered the Joey era material, by far.

Although I think Sound of the White Noise is a killer, the next two Anthrax records weren't...

However, I thought Bush added something to the band because he was so diffenrent from Joey - it wasn't someone trying to copy the original.

I also thought his voice suited the songs more, lower and more muscular.

But I relaise I am in the minority prefering him as a singer....


Sound of White Noise is one of my favorite Anthrax cds...Bush does have a more powerful voice.
When the got Joey back did they not kinda screw over Bush or am I wrong?

I'll be seeing Anthrax and the end of the month with Zombie...should be good.

[Mr Badguy]

How about Treveor Horn for Jon Anderson in Yes?

I really love the "Drama" album and Horn sings great but Anderson IS Yes (along with Chris Squire).

[Dave's Bitch]

Originally posted by binnie
I can't think of many good replacements.

John Bush for Joey Belladonna in anthrax springs to mind....


Fuck Off you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.Joey Belladonna is one of the best thrash singers,He can actualy sing.The John Bush stuff sucked,It wasnt Anthrax.I saw Anthrax with Joey earlyer this year and he was fuckin awesome

[Dave's Bitch]

Originally posted by WACF
Sound of White Noise is one of my favorite Anthrax cds...Bush does have a more powerful voice.
When the got Joey back did they not kinda screw over Bush or am I wrong?


Yes you are

[Bill Lumbergh]

Dave albums ALL tanked?! Three platinums and a gold aint too shabby..........

[Bill Lumbergh]

Originally posted by bueno bob



1.

2. Ronnie James Dio for Ozzy Osbourne (Black Sabbath)
3.


:rolleyes:

[binnie]

Originally posted by Dave's Bitch
Fuck Off you obviously have no clue what you are talking about.Joey Belladonna is one of the best thrash singers,He can actualy sing.The John Bush stuff sucked,It wasnt Anthrax.I saw Anthrax with Joey earlyer this year and he was fuckin awesome

I'm not saying that Bush era was better - merely stating that Anthrax era Bush wasn't a disaster like most replacement singers. Sound and WHCFYA weren't bad records.

Joey is a great singer, and I saw the reunion tour in Nottingham and they were amazing, one of the best gigs I've ever seen.

I am not criticiesing Joey, merely using Bush as an example that sometimes replacements do work, in my opinion.

I also realise that I am in the minority in prefering Bush's voice to Joeys - not saying I'm right, just stating my opinion.

Spreadinf the Disease, Among the Living and Persisitence of Time are three of my favorite records, no way I'm disrespecting Bellandona.

Can't wait for the new record with his vocals!

[binnie]

Originally posted by WACF
Sound of White Noise is one of my favorite Anthrax cds...Bush does have a more powerful voice.
When the got Joey back did they not kinda screw over Bush or am I wrong?

I'll be seeing Anthrax and the end of the month with Zombie...should be good.

Bush certainly claims that he has been screwed, but I don't think we'll ever hear the full story.

Their old guitar plar, Rob Caraviagio, who was replaced by Dn Spitz, was very critical of the reunion....

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Bill Lumbergh
:rolleyes:

I'm going to punch you.

And yes, it's going to hurt.

[MAPRamone]

Originally posted by FORD
Brian Johnson allowed the group to recover and carry on where other bands had definitely failed before. And they're still going which is worthy of respect.

But in no way was Brian an improvement for Bon Scott. I would have rather had them make 4 more albums with Bon and then break up than make the same album over and over again as they have with Brian Johnson.

Every one of the 6 studio albums Ac/Dc made with Bon Scott has something a little different on it. Hell, even the Ramones, who took great pride in keeping their music simple, for the most part, had more diversity in their material than Johnson's Ac/Dc.

The singer change didn't make them suck, like Van Hagar, but it did make them lazy to some extent.
Yeah , but faced with great success, ALL bands tend to grow lazy (CVH being a major exception). They might have done that even if Bon had lived. I agree they lost some of their diversity though.