City Passes Harsh Law Against Illegal Immigrants

[frets5150]

City Passes Harsh Law Against Illegal Immigrants
By MARK SCOLFORO, AP

HAZLETON, Pa. (July 14) - The City Council approved a law Thursday night designed to make this small city in northeastern Pennsylvania among the most hostile places in the U.S. for illegal immigrants to live or work.

The 4-to-1 vote came after nearly two hours of passionate debate. Opponents argued it was divisive and possibly illegal, but supporters said illegal immigrants' growing numbers have damaged the quality of life here.

"We must draw the line, and we are doing it tonight," Mayor Lou Barletta told a packed council chambers.

Barletta proposed the Illegal Immigration Relief Act last month as a response to what he said were Hazleton's problems with violent crime, crowded schools, hospital costs and the demand for services.

The ordinance would deny licenses to businesses that employ illegal immigrants, fine landlords $1,000 for each illegal immigrant discovered renting their properties, and require city documents to be in English only.

"The illegal citizens, I would recommend they leave," Barletta said after the meeting.

"What you see here tonight, really, is a city that wants to take back what America has given it," said the mayor, who said he wore a bulletproof vest to the meeting. He said he had not been threatened but took precautions because the issue was so emotionally charged.

Outside City Hall, about 300 people gathered with opponents of the measure, some with signs that read "Bias," separated by a line of police from supporters, some waving American flags.

Anna Arias spoke at the council meeting against the law. She asked the council, "Are any of us ready to support U.S. citizens born of someone who is undocumented?" Several people in the audience responded, "Yes!"

She warned the council that approving the ordinance would make Hazleton "the first Nazi city in the country."

Council Vice President Jack Mundie voted for the ordinance.

"We're against illegal immigrants that are coming here and that are draining the resources of our city," he said.

The Republican mayor's proposal has thrust the city, with a population of 31,000, to the fore of the national debate on illegal immigration.

The number of Hispanic residents in Hazleton, a former coal-mining town about 80 miles northwest of Philadelphia, has increased dramatically in the past six years.
City officials acknowledge they do not know how many are illegal immigrants, whom Barletta has blamed for higher crime rates, failing schools and a diminished quality of life.


Carolina Taveras, a 30-year-old naturalized citizen from the Dominican Republic who moved to Hazleton from New York City a year ago, said before the council's vote that the mayor's proposal has made her feel unwelcome.


A few doors down from where Taveras was getting her hair done at a downtown beauty salon that caters to Hispanic women, restaurant owner George Giannakouros said he is sympathetic to Barletta's approach.


"I agree with the mayor. There is a problem," Giannakouros said. "I work at my business at night. I like to feel safe."


In a letter sent to Barletta earlier this week, attorneys with the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund threatened to sue on the grounds that the law infringes upon the federal government's power to regulate immigration.


The lone "no" vote was cast by councilman Robert Nilles, who expressed concern about the legality of the ordinance.


Nilles tried to amend the law by stripping out a portion regulating landlords, but his motion died for lack of a second.


The law passed the council 4-1 on a preliminary vote last month. A similar measure was approved Tuesday by the supervisors in Hazle Township, which surrounds the city of Hazleton.


Other municipalities across the country also have considered acting to address illegal immigration. Ordinances similar to the Hazleton measure have been proposed in the Florida communities of Palm Bay and Avon Park and the California towns of Escondido and San Bernardino.

[jcook11]

Good, and lets's not play the race card here. Race is mentioned nowhere, so if you are from Timbuktu, Albania, Nepal, Canada,Greenland,The Amazon etc. and you are there ILLEGALLY this applies to you!

[Warham]

Harsh???

More cities should pass laws like this.

[Nickdfresh]

Wait 'til you fools pay $7 for a head of lettuce...

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Wait 'til you fools pay $7 for a head of lettuce...

So it's ok if illegal immigrants break the law in this country if it prevents $7 dollar lettuce?

How about we plant gardens to grow our own lettuce and kick the illegals out on their ass until they learn what the definition of LAW ABIDING is?

How about we take away our kids video games and make them go to work instead of mooching off mommy and daddy until they are 40 years old?

How about we take some responsibility and actually address the problem instead of excusing people who willfully break the law?

Seriously, you scream all day long how Bush breaks the law and should be brought to justice, yet you excuse people crossing the border illegally and breaking the laws of the land in order to prevent $7 lettuce?

Dude, you can't take it with you so stop selling out your country in the name of cheaper lettuce.

[Nickdfresh]

Do you ever speed?

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Do you ever speed?

Sure i do, i also pay my fines when i get caught.
But my speeding never added millions of dollars to my county's yearly bill for housing me in their jails either.

Local municipalities can't shoulder that kind of financial burdon forever, Nick.

Another point i'd like to make is that traffic laws are enforced, immigration laws are not.

I'm sure you had a point, but it got lost in my reply i'm afraid. ;)

[Hardrock69]

Ship them all back to where they fucking come from!!!
:mad:

[DEMON CUNT]

I love how neocons have a big hardon for the "law" when it comes to this immigration talking point.

But when it comes to the invasion of a soverign nation- the law means nothing.

When it comes to prisoners- the law means nothing.

Perfect neocon mind slaves they are.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg/250px-Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Wait 'til you fools pay $7 for a head of lettuce...

They just don't get it. The impact on business will be huge. Take a way the cheap workforce and what do you think will happen?

Good thing we have citizens like Warhead and BigBland who are willing to work for minimum wage. Thanks guys.

Here comes BigBland now!

http://www.beaumontpressroom.com/pls/pportal30/docs/FOLDER/2003/LAWNMOWING2003/LAWN+MOWING+5.01.JPG

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I love how neocons have a big hardon for the "law" when it comes to this immigration talking point.

But when it comes to the invasion of a soverign nation- the law means nothing.

When it comes to prisoners- the law means nothing.

Perfect neocon mind slaves they are.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg/250px-Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg

Still walking in the dark are we?
So tell me, how much money did your local community pay out for housing illegals in the jails last year?

Wouldn't you have liked to see some of those potholes get fixed, or other City Projects get funded with that cash?

Our Sheriff has sent George W. a bill for that which has yet to be paid and he's taking the matter to court to get reimbursed for those funds.

If the President wants them here then he needs to start footing the bill for when those illegals get trashed and cause trouble landing them in jail.
And you jumping on anyone about enforcing laws while you support illegals breaking them is rediculous.

All you do is blow the trumpet for your party and you would no more find fault in YOUR guy than those you bitch about find in their's.

You are no different than those you complain about, you just wear a different badge with a nice picture of a Jackass on it.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
They just don't get it. The impact on business will be huge. Take a way the cheap workforce and what do you think will happen?

Good thing we have citizens like Warhead and BigBland who are willing to work for minimum wage. Thanks guys.

Here comes BigBland now!

http://www.beaumontpressroom.com/pls/pportal30/docs/FOLDER/2003/LAWNMOWING2003/LAWN+MOWING+5.01.JPG

Lost, that's what you are.

I think that if businesses didn't have the option to hire "cheap" illegals they would have to increase the pay for an American to do it.

Be careful, you're starting to sound like a slave labor master in this thread.

Whats next, sweat shops run by illegal immigrant children?

Nobody should have to work for the minimum wage in this country, not while the cost of living has tripled since the last increase.

But hey, they voted for themselves to get a raise, didn't they?

You can keep blowing your horn for people who continuously stick it to the working class on a regular basis if you want, i'm done playing the game by their rules.

I am no longer a card carrying member of any political party, i carry a .357 instead.

[Warham]

Cat,

I think DEMON's had enough bitchslappings for one day.

haha!

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
I love how neocons have a big hardon for the "law" when it comes to this immigration talking point.

But when it comes to the invasion of a soverign nation- the law means nothing.

When it comes to prisoners- the law means nothing.

Perfect neocon mind slaves they are.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg/250px-Reagan_Bush_1984.jpg

What law are you referring to, oh mindless one?

[Nickdfresh]

Yeah, um, well, why don't they go over the businesses that employ illegal immigrants? Just shut them down and confiscate them! Destroy the demand in stead of interrupting the supply, BTW, that strategy has worked real well in the drug war, why not a war on illegal immigrants? *snicker*

And what's the difference between a violent gang member that is an illegal and one that was born here?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
What law are you referring to, oh mindless one?

Exactly. Neocon avoidance.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Cat,

I think DEMON's had enough bitchslappings for one day.

haha!

How about a link to all those bitch slappins? I don't see them.

Cathedral doesn't have much to add unless you count those silly rhetorical questions and something about a gun.

[Switch84]

:D Georgia is attempting to address the problem on the state level. B529 was signed into law a few months ago, denying taxpayer paid services to illegals, fining businesses that hire them (to name a few).

I agree with what Hazleton is doing. What the knee-jerk whiners fail to realize is noone is against immigration as long as it's done LEGALLY. And using the Chicken Little approach in an attempt to scare Americans into accepting this out of control illegal population is pathetic at best. There are members of these Roth boards that have loved ones abiding by our immigration process and have been forgotten about and their citizenship delayed in favor of catering to these law-breaking bitches. That's not right!

And so what if the price of lettuce or whatever the fuck else goes up? It's going to go up no matter what, that's a fact of life. My parents paid 5 cents for a loaf of bread back in the day; you can't get SHIT for 5 cents now! I myself remember paying $1 for a gallon of gas 4 years ago!


This nation won't collapse without illegal aliens. Your lawns will be cut, your kids' diapers changed and your limos driven and they can (and should be) done by LEGAL citizens. The same people bitchin' about Americans on welfare ("fuckin' freeloaders") are the same ones that cheerlead for these same people being passed over for work in favor of kissing La Raza's ass. There's your work force right there. Many states have a welfare-to-work program and if you'd pay people a living wage instead of maintaining a bootleg slave labor force, that'll kill two birds with one stone.

I believe ALL Americans want to work and contribute to this nation; they just want a decent wage and benefits. Or maybe I'm being naive, but I doubt it.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Sounds like some folks need a reminder.
1. Identity theft rings
2.massive drug trafficking
3.strain on middle class taxpayers
4. illegals not paying taxes back into the system
5. sending their money back to Vincente Fox.
6.prison system overun with illegals putting more strain on American taxpayers.
7. repeat offenders not being deported.
8. Banks now offering illegals housing loans.
9. middle class taxpayers picking up the tab for illegals education.
10.middle class taxpayers picking up tab for illegals medical care.
11. future culture wars.
12.Drug lords thumbing their noses at our border patrols, running their tanks around on American soil.
13.A smack in the face to immigrants that have migrated to this country legally.

and the list can go on and on.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
How about a link to all those bitch slappins? I don't see them.



Sure you do.

You're just in denial.

Just look in every thread you ever posted in. :cool:

Also, I feel honored that you saw the need to mention me even though I hadn't posted in this threa up until this post.

You go to bed dreading the nightmares over the bitch-slappings I've given you in the past and the ones I will give you in the future.

You're a fool to be pitied. I will pray to my God for you.

:gulp:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Cathedral doesn't have much to add unless you count those silly rhetorical questions and something about a gun.

Ask around, you'd be surprised at how few people agree with you on that.
The problem is that posts tend to shoot over your head because you have comprehension issues you really need to address.

I'm totally NOT surprised at your comment...the dense rarely make any sense of the written word.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Sounds like some folks need a reminder.
1. Identity theft rings
2.massive drug trafficking
3.strain on middle class taxpayers
4. illegals not paying taxes back into the system
5. sending their money back to Vincente Fox.
6.prison system overun with illegals putting more strain on American taxpayers.
7. repeat offenders not being deported.
8. Banks now offering illegals housing loans.
9. middle class taxpayers picking up the tab for illegals education.
10.middle class taxpayers picking up tab for illegals medical care.
11. future culture wars.
12.Drug lords thumbing their noses at our border patrols, running their tanks around on American soil.
13.A smack in the face to immigrants that have migrated to this country legally.

and the list can go on and on.

Naaaa, these are the kind of details a Lib cannot be bothered with.
And you made the point better than i did, now send a copy of this to Demon Cunt so he/she can understand exactly where they are wrong on this issue.

The bottom line is that they treat America like a giant nipple to suck on.......but they need to pay for the milk, i have my own kid to support.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Naaaa, these are the kind of details a Lib cannot be bothered with.
And you made the point better than i did, now send a copy of this to Demon Cunt so he/she can understand exactly where they are wrong on this issue.

The bottom line is that they treat America like a giant nipple to suck on.......but they need to pay for the milk, i have my own kid to support.

Yes, if only you neocons were in charge of everything our problems would go away! Why didn't you just say so!?!

This immigration crap is nothing more than a cover for the racist beliefs of the right.

http://www.bluebus.org/capt.1056681733.obit_thurmond_ny126.jpg
Bye bye brown people! We'll pick our own produce, thank you!

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Sure you do.

You're just in denial.

Just look in every thread you ever posted in. :cool:

Also, I feel honored that you saw the need to mention me even though I hadn't posted in this threa up until this post.

You go to bed dreading the nightmares over the bitch-slappings I've given you in the past and the ones I will give you in the future.

You're a fool to be pitied. I will pray to my God for you.


Not really, but that's ok.

Yeah, please pray to that god of yers so he'll know where to send the lightning.

[Nickdfresh]

Why don't one of you geniuses that think illegal immigrants are destroying American explain why they keep coming here if they're so unwelcome...

BTW, recent studies have concluded that the reason why MEXICANS stay here with their families is because it became much more difficult for them to move back and forth between the border due to the barriers that were put up in the early 90s... They bring their families here for fear they will get cut off or will be isolated, and will not be able to make the very perilous journey again if they return to Mexico...

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Yes, if only you neocons were in charge of everything our problems would go away! Why didn't you just say so!?!

This immigration crap is nothing more than a cover for the racist beliefs of the right.

http://www.bluebus.org/capt.1056681733.obit_thurmond_ny126.jpg
Bye bye brown people! We'll pick our own produce, thank you!

BLINDERS, TAKE THEM OFF BEFORE YOU HURT YOURSELF!

LMMFAO @ cover for the racist beliefs of the right

You need help, seriously, because you're WRONG about that.

[Nickdfresh]

June 4, 2006(CBS) This segment was originally broadcast on Dec. 11, 2005.

When it comes to illegal immigration, the leaders of both parties haven't found much to agree on – except for one thing. Just about everyone wants to spend billions of dollars to tighten the 2,000 mile U.S.-Mexican border.

There is nothing new about this. Since 1993, the U.S. government has tripled the budget for border control, spending a small fortune on fences, high-tech surveillance equipment – not to mention thousands of additional border patrol agents. All of this was supposed to make it harder for illegal immigrants to cross over in cities and towns along the border. And it did.

But, as correspondent Ed Bradley reported last December, some of the same people who designed that strategy now say it's been a huge waste of taxpayers' money and that it has done nothing to stop migrants from coming to the U.S. illegally. What it has done, they say, is to force those migrants to cross remote and treacherous stretches of desert, where many are dying.


The death toll is so high that the Border Patrol now has a special unit whose only job to help migrants in trouble. During the filming of our 60 Minutes story, Officer Garrett Neubauer received a distress call about 20 miles north of the border in southern Arizona.

"What we had is a person walked out to one of the roads, flagged down some agents, waved them down and stated that he had left his friend out on the desert," says Neubauer.

The migrant they're looking for is an 18-year-old Mexican named Abran Gonzales, who has been wandering in the desert for seven days. Agents have narrowed the search area and have found one of his shoes.

"That’s what we’re looking for, and that’s why I wanted to see his shoe. Just to kind of get an idea of what his other shoe looks like. So I know what I’m looking for on the ground. It sounds to me like he’s kind of out of it. He’s dehydrated. His condition is going downhill, so he’s probably not thinking rationally," says Neubauer.

Agent Neubauer has good reason to be concerned. 60 Minutes took a first-hand look at the paths taken by migrants through the desert last summer when temperatures hovered above 100 degrees for weeks at a time. Last year, the Border Patrol reported a record 464 deaths, but by all accounts the number is much higher because of bodies that haven’t been found.

Dr. Bruce Parks, Tucson’s Medical Examiner, has been on the job for years and says he has never seen anything like this. There are so many bodies, they won’t fit in the vaults in the coroner’s morgue.

When 60 Minutes visited, Dr. Parks had found a place to put an extra 60 bodies, a refrigerated truck that costs his department $1,000 a week.

Twelve years ago, things were very different. Back then, no migrants died in the desert. That’s because it was easier to come in through American cities along the border. Too easy, according to Mark Reed, who was the top immigration official in San Diego.

"When I got there, our inspectors were hiding in the inspection booths for fear of stepping out and being run over, literally trampled by people running through the port of entry itself and through the booths where the cars were, over the top of immigration inspectors if necessary," says Reed.

How many would come at one time?

"Groups of 500 people running up the southbound lanes of I-5," he recalls.

The migrants had figured out that if there were enough of them, most of them could get through. The stampedes occurred with such frequency that they became a public relations embarrassment to government officials. The Clinton administration decided something had to be done. Huge metal walls went up, high tech surveillance systems were purchased – and they did seal off major cities along the border, but not the mountains and desert in between.


Mark Reed helped shape the strategy.

"We thought the mountains and the desert were going to be our friends in terms of this strategy. We thought that would deter entry through those places. And that those would be places that we would not have to worry about," says Reed.

Reed says officials figured the terrain was so difficult it was a deterrent but, he says, it turned out to be "our Achilles’ heel."

"That’s where the smugglers took them," he explains.

In a remote stretch of desert across from New Mexico, 60 Minutes met a smuggler and 11 young men preparing to enter the United States. The men rubbed garlic on their pants to ward off snakes. Then they crossed a three-foot barbed wire fence – each one carrying two gallons of water – nowhere near enough for a journey that could take five or six days. Last year, about a half million illegal migrants came from Mexico to live and work in the U.S., about twice as many as came before the border was fortified.

"It actually encouraged more people to enter the country because what we did is we took away the ability of a worker to come into the country and cross back and forth fairly freely. So they started bringing their families in and actually domiciling in the United States with their entire family because they knew they couldn’t go back and forth," says Reed.

More than 20 percent of the deaths in the desert last year were women and children. The Border Patrol recorded 1.1 million arrests last year, but often it was the same people being arrested over and over again.

"I have caught the same group of people four times in one eight-hour shift," says T.J. Bonner, who is the head of the Border Patrol agents union.

But Bonner says the immigrants try to come another way after being turned back. "When I looked in the record log the next day, their names weren’t there. So I can only assume that they got by us the fifth time," he says.

Fortified fences like the one in Nogales, Arizona, protect only about five percent of the U.S.-Mexican border.

Bonner thinks that the number of illegal migrants has actually gone up since the barrier went up. Does he think the millions spent on the fence were a waste of money?

"I think that's a fair assessment," says Bonner.

The U.S. government has spent about $20 billion on border control over the past 12 years. But Republican Congressman Tom Tancredo insists that is just not enough. He's sponsoring a bill that calls for more agents to remove illegal migrants where they work and to vastly increase border security.

"If you only put the fence for this five miles of border, people will go around it, naturally. You have to secure your borders!" says Rep. Tancredo.

He recommends sealing off the entire border, building fences. How much more should the government spend?

"Whatever it takes," Tancredo says. "Billions more. Billions more. Ed, why not? It is our job. It is what the federal government should be doing!"

The University of California’s Wayne Cornelius, a national authority on immigration, predicted ten years ago that no matter what the government does to fortify the border, Mexican workers will still keep coming as long as there are jobs here for them.

"They can earn more in an hour of work in the United States than they could in an entire day in Mexico – if they had a job," says Cornelius.

The government says crossing the border through the desert is breaking the law, but Cornelius says the U.S. is sending a very mixed message.

"The message that we’re sending them is if you can get past the obstacle course at the border, you’re essentially home free. You have pretty much unrestricted access to our labor market and there are employers out there eager for your labor," he says.


About six million illegal migrants are now working in the U.S. The meatpacking industry is one of the many that rely on illegal immigrant labor. Seven years ago, the Immigration Service cracked down on illegal migrants in plants in Nebraska and Iowa.

Mark Reed was in charge of the operation.

"What we did is we pulled together the meatpacking industry in the states of Nebraska and Iowa and brought them into Washington and told them that we were not going to allow them to hire any more unauthorized workers. Within 30 days over 3,500 people fled the meatpacking industry in Nebraska," says Reed.

"We proved that the government without doubt had the capacity to deny employment to unauthorized workers," says Reed.

What happened next?

"We were invited to leave Nebraska by the same delegation that invited us in. The bottom line issue was, please leave our state before you ruin our economy," says Reed.

"The reason is that by putting that factory out of business, not only do we put the unauthorized workers out of business, but we’ve put United States citizens out of business and we destroy, we have the potential to destroy, an entire community," says Reed.

Reed says that this illegal work force is "essential" to our economy.

So what are taxpayers getting for the billions of dollars spent on border security?

"Getting a good story," says Reed. But not a secure border.

One recent attempt to secure the Mexican border is a $14 million pilot-less drone, which scans the desert for intruders and potential terrorists. Fear of terrorism is the latest reason that large bipartisan majorities in Congress have voted to increase the Border Patrol’s budget.

"There are national security implications to porous borders. There really are. I mean, people are coming into this country who want to come into this country for very nefarious purposes, not just to come here to work at the 7-Eleven, no, they’re coming for other purposes," says Rep. Tancredo.

But Cornelius says zero terrorists have been caught on the Mexican border.

"They don’t need to come in that way. They can purchase the best forged documents in the world. The real danger is that they will come through our legal ports of entry with valid visas, just like the 9/11 terrorists did," says Cornelius.

There are now 11,000 Border Patrol agents, three times as many as there were 12 years ago. Only 100 of them are assigned to find illegal migrants where they work. Nearly all spend their time making arrests and dropping migrants off on the Mexican side of the border.

"Talk with anybody that may have been arrested out there in the desert. They’ll tell you, number one, I’m just coming here to get a job because you have a job to give me and you want me for that job. I’m not doing anything really wrong. America wants me," says Reed.

Meanwhile, back in the Arizona desert, Border Patrol Agent Neubauer gets word 18-year-old Abran Gonzales, who had been wandering in the desert for seven days, has been found.

Abran Gonzales had died of thirst just a few hours earlier.

"It’s hard to know that maybe you could have been out there to help this person, and just weren’t able. That’s something you have to deal with and move on," says Neubauer.

Gonzalez came from a small town in southern Mexico. He had gone to the U.S. to earn enough money to buy a new tin roof for his parents’ house. The parents had borrowed $300 for Abran to make the trip, money the parents still owe.

His cousin, Casimira Manuel, was the first to be told:

"The man from the consulate called and told me they found Abran in the Arizona desert and he was dead. He was a quiet kid. He never hurt anybody. He just wanted to work and come back home," Casimira recalls.


There were 516 bodies discovered in the desert last year - a new record. Including bodies yet to be discovered, the total of migrant deaths is likely to exceed one thousand.


Produced By David Gelber/Joel Bach © MMV, 60 Minutes CBS Broadcasting (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/08/60minutes/main1108476.shtml) Inc. All Rights Reserved.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Why don't one of you geniuses that think illegal immigrants are destroying American explain why they keep coming here if they're so unwelcome...

BTW, recent studies have concluded that the reason why MEXICANS stay here with their families is because it became much more difficult for them to move back and forth between the border due to the barriers that were put up in the early 90s... They bring their families here for fear they will get cut off or will be isolated, and will not be able to make the very perilous journey again if they return to Mexico...

It's easy, they are coming to suck the nipple that has a welfare tree next to it they can shake.

THEY WANT THE FREE RIDE AND ARE GETTING IT FROM BUSH!

Do you not even consider the costs to the cities and states they are mooching off of?
I'll just bet you the damage is far worse than a $7 head of lettuce right now.

But what about those who followed the law and came her legally?

Look man, I have no problem with an immigrant coming here to find work to feed his/her family, as long as they do it legally.

If the whole issue needs re-worked then so be it, as long as the raping of our economic structure is stopped and they are required to pull the same weight I am required to pull.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Cathedral
It's easy, they are coming to suck the nipple that has a welfare tree next to it they can shake.

BULLSHIT!! They're coming here for jobs!

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
BULLSHIT!! They're coming here for jobs!

Um, no, not bullshit, jobs are included in my nipple remark, also covered in my 'free ride' comment.

It is also insinuated in my "THEY'RE GETTING IT FROM BUSH" remark.
that is because Bush uses illegals to inflate the job growth numbers, which if you look into it you'll see that the jobs created do NOT reflect this countries bread and butter which is and always has been MANUFACTURING.

The job numbers make Bush look good, but they are a front because the wages are much lower than they have ever been because the jobs created were lower wage service jobs.
It all spells economic trouble real soon for all of us.

Like Ford always says, "Bush doesn't do anything that doesn't directly benefit him or his friends interests".

He uses them for political capital in boosting what is really aweful job growth during his watch.

I'd like to see the numbers after every job an illegal has is eliminated from the report.
I am quite damn sure the job creation numbers would be the lowest in American history.

The numbers just don't add up, Nick.
I pity the next President to take office because he's gonna have a shit load of messes to clean up, if he even can clean them up.

[ULTRAMAN VH]

Yeah, they come over here for jobs because they can work tax free!!!!! The corrupt Mexican government wants to dump their problems on us and they are doing a damn fine job of it. They have our politicians balls in their hip pockets. Got to give old Vincente credit, he is successfully invading America without firing a shot. And no I am not a racist, I am a pissed off American citizen who is watching his Government bend over backwards to appease illegal invaders in this country at my expense. You won't catch a Mexican family of 30 or so moving in next door to Ted Kennedy or George Bush. No they will be moving into two bedroom one bath houses next door to Johnny Middleclass who has a family of 4 and struggling because a large part of his check is withheld to pay for a broken welfare system, his illegal neighbors and a war we should never have started.

[jcook11]

What is "harsh" about following the law?

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Cathedral doesn't have much to add unless you count those silly rhetorical questions and something about a gun.

You haven't added anything since you've been here, except for a few photos of shitstains on the floor, and a banana.

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Yes, if only you neocons were in charge of everything our problems would go away! Why didn't you just say so!?!

This immigration crap is nothing more than a cover for the racist beliefs of the right.

http://www.bluebus.org/capt.1056681733.obit_thurmond_ny126.jpg
Bye bye brown people! We'll pick our own produce, thank you!

Cathedral is hardly a 'neocon'.

You and your idiotic labels.

Did you know that neoconservatism started in the Democratic party?

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
You haven't added anything since you've been here, except for a few photos of shitstains on the floor, and a banana.

You know that itsn't true. But then again you neocons are used to lying about everything.

Nice try.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Cathedral is hardly a 'neocon'.

You and your idiotic labels.

Did you know that neoconservatism started in the Democratic party?

That label gets a funny reaction outta Cat.

You and your idiotic notions.

Did you know that Saddam had nothing to do with 911?

[Ellyllions]

I have a friend from the UK that is sitting in Texas on a waiting list with INS for 8 YEARS!!! 8 YEARS!!! He files a tax return every year only to have his tax check sent back to him with a letter stating that they can't accept his payment until his status is resolved. He's trying to obey the laws but is still in limbo because of the system.

The price of goods might go up at first if we can do what needs to be done with the 12 million illegals, but things will level out. It HAS to be resolved. But the honest truth is that we can't send them back. For one, we can't round them up (they'll hide), and we can't afford what would need to be done to send them back. If we enforce that they pay back taxes, they'll use the Child credit and we'll end up paying THEM money.

Did you know for every illegal that dies on US soil in an attempt to cross the border it cost over $1,000 per to the US taxpayer? Why? Because we're obligated to have an autopsy performed and we're obligated to pay for it.

Like it or not, this has nothing to do with race, or with human civil rights. This is a way of life for some and it truly is draining the country. All of a sudden unemployed, unskilled US citizens are too good to work fields or roof new houses. And it's because of this group of people coming in that we've changed our minds. The jobs will be filled eventually, but it will take time for things to level out.

If they're own government isn't willing to use the country's income to raise the quality of life, then we shouldn't be responsible for that. Send them home and give them the chance to fix their own countries.

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
You know that itsn't true. But then again you neocons are used to lying about everything.

Nice try.

Yeah, you started off alright, but then you were sucked into Brian's game, and now look like a total tool.

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
That label gets a funny reaction outta Cat.

You and your idiotic notions.

Did you know that Saddam had nothing to do with 911?

Yeah, it'd be the same reaction if I called you a neo-con.

:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Warham
Cathedral is hardly a 'neocon'.

You and your idiotic labels.

Did you know that neoconservatism started in the Democratic party?

LMMFAO

What a moronic tool you are.

But WarBOT is right about one thing.

Cathedral is no longer a Neo-Con.

He now hates this administration alomst as much as I do.



:cool: :cool: :cool:

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, you started off alright, but then you were sucked into Brian's game, and now look like a total tool.

Thanks for the two-bit commentary. I'll take it under consideration.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, it'd be the same reaction if I called you a neo-con.


Or if I called you a smelly nutsack.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
That label gets a funny reaction outta Cat.

You and your idiotic notions.

Did you know that Saddam had nothing to do with 911?

Yeah it does, it makes me laugh really really rediculously hard, and do you know why?

BECAUSE I'M NOT A NEO-CON!

I used to be, but i have since lost ALL confidence in this governments ability to govern fairly across the board.
It doesn't matter who wins the Presidency because half of the country will not be served the way the people deserve to be served, the way our founding father's intended.

And i know Saddam didn't have anything to do with 09/11/01.
But he was in violation of UN Resolutions that were all we needed to end the cease fire agreement from '91.
Plus, in my opinion, the way we pulled out of Desert Storm after Bush Sr. motivated them to rise against Saddam only to be left with no backup and sent to their slaughter...we owed it to the people of Iraq.

My point of view is that we had the chance to reverse some of that 60 year old failed foreign policy by ridding them of a dictator. Which i might add is exactly the reason we are hated in the middle east, you know, the making deals with tyrants and never helping those who were opressed by them?

I never expcted Iraqi's to throw flowers when this war started, why would they when last we were there we left them to die and suffer for another decade.

We've had to earn their respect back, and that process is still taking place because some do believe we're there for the long haul while others aren't yet cinvinced we will be.

Then of course they can see in the media how some libs and cons are calling for us to pull out immediately and that surely isn't helping to bolster any support now is it?

That said, I know Saddam had WMD, the entire world knew it, especially those he used it on in his own country.
he could have avoided war by providing the documents proving they were destroyed, but he didn't, he kept threatening to use them on us should we invade....but that didn't happen because they were gone at that point.

Some say they were sent to Syria, I believe they just expired and were discarded, which by the way there is little evidence of to date.

Still, if i were Bush i would have gone into Iraq for three reasons.
1) To remove a tyrant who's regime was nothing less than brutal to the people of the country.
2) To finish what my daddy failed to finish and keep my country's word to the Iraqi people.
3) To acquire a place in which to manage the war against Terror.
It's sad to say, but taking the war to the terrorists is about logistics and the war against terror could not be waged from our homelend.

Unless of course you'd like it to be our own cities getting bombs and missiles thrown at it.

If we weren't over there in some capacity they would all be building weapons that CAN reach us from over there.

I'm of the mentality that if i know the guy who is charging at me is going to attack me, i'm going to do my best to get the first hit in and shut them down. i know i'll use restraint and try not to kill them.

With Terror Cells, you know they want to kill us, so why wait until they shoot first?
You may not get a chance to return fire, cause you'll be dead.

I am convinced of one thing...Most Libs and some Cons aren't thinking realistically, they're thinking politically...and the America they claim to want can never exist...not for long anyway.

Ford, there has been corruption in politics since day 1...the world you claim to want has never existed and it never will.
And i gotta tell ya all, as long as everyone is split between two political parties, two failed political parties, things will only get worse.

We ALL need a new direction with common goals, and we will never get that from Republicans OR Democrats.