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FORD
07-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Triumph of the authoritarians

By John W. Dean | July 14, 2006

CONTEMPORARY CONSERVATISM and its influence on the Republican Party was, until recently, a mystery to me. The practitioners' bludgeoning style of politics, their self-serving manipulation of the political processes, and their policies that focus narrowly on perceived self-interest -- none of this struck me as based on anything related to traditional conservatism. Rather, truth be told, today's so-called conservatives are quite radical.

For more than 40 years I have considered myself a ``Goldwater conservative," and am thoroughly familiar with the movement's canon. But I can find nothing conservative about the Bush/Cheney White House, which has created a Nixon ``imperial presidency" on steroids, while acting as if being tutored by the best and brightest of the Cosa Nostra.

What true conservative calls for packing the courts to politicize the federal judiciary to the degree that it is now possible to determine the outcome of cases by looking at the prior politics of judges? Where is the conservative precedent for the monocratic leadership style that conservative Republicans imposed on the US House when they took control in 1994, a style that seeks primarily to perfect fund-raising skills while outsourcing the writing of legislation to special interests and freezing Democrats out of the legislative process?

How can those who claim themselves conservatives seek to destroy the deliberative nature of the US Senate by eliminating its extended-debate tradition, which has been the institution's distinctive contribution to our democracy? Yet that is precisely what Republican Senate leaders want to do by eliminating the filibuster when dealing with executive business (namely judicial appointments).

Today's Republican policies are antithetical to bedrock conservative fundamentals. There is nothing conservative about preemptive wars or disregarding international law by condoning torture. Abandoning fiscal responsibility is now standard operating procedure. Bible-thumping, finger-pointing, tongue-lashing attacks on homosexuals are not found in Russell Krik's classic conservative canons, nor in James Burham's guides to conservative governing. Conservatives in the tradition of former senator Barry Goldwater and President Ronald Reagan believed in ``conserving" this planet, not relaxing environmental laws to make life easier for big business. And neither man would have considered employing Christian evangelical criteria in federal programs, ranging from restricting stem cell research to fighting AIDs through abstinence.

Candid and knowledgeable Republicans on the far right concede -- usually only when not speaking for attribution -- that they are not truly conservative. They do not like to talk about why they behave as they do, or even to reflect on it. Nonetheless, their leaders admit they like being in charge, and their followers grant they find comfort in strong leaders who make them feel safe. This is what I gleaned from discussions with countless conservative leaders and followers, over a decade of questioning.

I started my inquiry in the mid-1990s, after a series of conversations with Goldwater, whom I had known for more than 40 years. Goldwater was also mystified (when not miffed) by the direction of today's professed conservatives -- their growing incivility, pugnacious attitudes, and arrogant and antagonistic style, along with a narrow outlook intolerant of those who challenge their thinking. He worried that the Republican Party had sold its soul to Christian fundamentalists, whose divisive social values would polarize the nation. From those conversations, Goldwater and I planned to study why these people behave as they do, and to author a book laying out what we found. Sadly, the senator's declining health soon precluded his continuing on the project, so I put it on the shelf. But I kept digging until I found some answers, and here are my thoughts.

For almost half a century, social scientists have been exploring authoritarianism. We do not typically associate authoritarianism with our democracy, but as I discovered while examining decades of empirical research, we ignore some findings at our risk. Unfortunately, the social scientists who have studied these issues report their findings in monographs and professional journals written for their peers, not for general readers. With the help of a leading researcher and others, I waded into this massive body of work.

What I found provided a personal epiphany. Authoritarian conservatives are, as a researcher told me, ``enemies of freedom, antidemocratic, antiequality, highly prejudiced, mean-spirited, power hungry, Machiavellian and amoral." And that's not just his view. To the contrary, this is how these people have consistently described themselves when being anonymously tested, by the tens of thousands over the past several decades.

Authoritarianism's impact on contemporary conservatism is beyond question. Because this impact is still growing and has troubling (if not actually evil) implications, I hope that social scientists will begin to write about this issue for general readers. It is long past time to bring the telling results of their empirical work into the public square and to the attention of American voters. No less than the health of our democracy may depend on this being done. We need to stop thinking we are dealing with traditional conservatives on the modern stage, and instead recognize that they've often been supplanted by authoritarians.

John W. Dean, former Nixon White House counsel, just published his seventh nonfiction book, ``Conservatives Without Conscience."


Link (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/07/14/triumph_of_the_authoritarians/)

Nickdfresh
07-20-2006, 01:14 PM
Dean is on with Al Franken/Air America right now. Interesting dude.

His basic point is that Authoritarian-Neoconservatives are not about truth or information, but about subservience and blind acceptance. Two important factors in accepting proto-fascism...

FORD
07-20-2006, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Dean is on with Al Franken/Air America right now. Interesting dude.

His basic point is that Authoritarian-Neoconservatives are not about truth or information, but about subservience and blind acceptance. Two important factors in accepting proto-fascism...

Or as a latter 20th century British philosopher once put it.....

http://fusionanomaly.net/johnnyrottenglaremic.jpg

Blind acceptance is a sign of fucking fools who stand in line.......

ODShowtime
07-20-2006, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Dean is on with Al Franken/Air America right now. Interesting dude.

His basic point is that Authoritarian-Neoconservatives are not about truth or information, but about subservience and blind acceptance. Two important factors in accepting proto-fascism...

Pretty much describes the 'con crew here.

yeah, "neo" con because you've obviously gone beyond conservatism into some entirely different shit. That's why we laugh at people like BBB when they talk about "liberals."

People who support gw are liberal. They've changed this country. We've regressed.

Nickdfresh
03-17-2007, 08:49 AM
Bump.

BigBadBrian
03-17-2007, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Pretty much describes the 'con crew here.

yeah, "neo" con because you've obviously gone beyond conservatism into some entirely different shit. That's why we laugh at people like BBB when they talk about "liberals."

People who support gw are liberal. They've changed this country. We've regressed.

Once again, OD shows that he doesn't know what a NEO-con is.

Hell, it probably took him a half-hour just to put the above paragraph together.

Keep trying, jerky.

:cool:

hideyoursheep
03-17-2007, 04:27 PM
NeoCon, Redneck retard, you,....

What's the difference, gimp?

Nickdfresh
03-17-2007, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Once again, OD shows that he doesn't know what a NEO-con is.

Hell, it probably took him a half-hour just to put the above paragraph together.

Keep trying, jerky.

:cool:

Great! A writing critique coming from a dummy con that rarely strings together more than a couple of disjointed sentences...

And tell us BigBitchyBrianne, what is a "NEO-con?"

ODShowtime
03-17-2007, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Once again, OD shows that he doesn't know what a NEO-con is.

Hell, it probably took him a half-hour just to put the above paragraph together.

Keep trying, jerky.


How many times are you gonna trot out the tired, idiotic response that we don't know what a neocon is? Are you just too complex for all of us? :confused:



:rolleyes:

Warham
03-19-2007, 08:06 AM
Neocon has lost any significant meaning around here.

Anyone who votes Republican is considered a neocon by the lib crew here.

:rolleyes:

Warham
03-19-2007, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by hideyoursheep
NeoCon, Redneck retard, you,....

What's the difference, gimp?

Where's the tolerance???

:rolleyes:

Nickdfresh
03-20-2007, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Neocon has lost any significant meaning around here.

Anyone who votes Republican is considered a neocon by the lib crew here.

:rolleyes:

No, anyone who is still a mindless defender of the Busheep admin. is a "Neocon" around here...

Warham
03-20-2007, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, anyone who is still a mindless defender of the Busheep admin. is a "Neocon" around here...

Na, I've heard the libs here call people who weren't fervent Bush defenders neocons.

That shit ain't gonna fly.

It's a word that's ready for retirement.

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Warham
Na, I've heard the libs here call people who weren't fervent Bush defenders neocons.

That shit ain't gonna fly.

It's a word that's ready for retirement.

Again with the moronic generalizations from you. It's like you got to be mod without ever learning how to debate.

You are a neocon and you ARE woefully misled.

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:02 AM
this thread proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that our #1 and #2 neocon dolts have nothing left to say.


Warham - tired retread
BBB - special needs child who hasn't realized he lost the game he's playing

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Again with the moronic generalizations from you. It's like you got to be mod without ever learning how to debate.

You are a neocon and you ARE woefully misled.

I learned how to debate before you were out of diapers, son.

Move along, move along.

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
this thread proves, without a shadow of a doubt, that our #1 and #2 neocon dolts have nothing left to say.


Warham - tired retread
BBB - special needs child who hasn't realized he lost the game he's playing

This anger is unbecoming of you, OD.

There's medication available for repressed rage. :)

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Warham
I learned how to debate before you were out of diapers, son.

Move along, move along.

well, you're doing a shitty job you crusty old bastard

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
well, you're doing a shitty job you crusty old bastard

Well, you're right about one thing, I'm getting old.

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Warham
This anger is unbecoming of you, OD.

There's medication available for these symptoms. :)

I don't even care any more. My views have been vindicated.



And I'm much too busy to get fired up these days. I'm resigned to dealing with human greed and evil. It's all encompassing.

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I don't even care any more. My views have been vindicated.

They have?

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by Warham
They have?

I guess you haven't been paying attention. Like I said earlier, I don't have time to rehash things. Sorry to keep you wallowing in ignorance.

BigBadBrian
03-20-2007, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by ODShowtime


Warham - tired retread
BBB - special needs child who hasn't realized he lost the game he's playing

Please seek help, boy....

:gulp:

FORD
03-20-2007, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by Warham


There's medication available for repressed rage. :)

The natural stuff used to work for me......

http://cannabisculture.com/library/images/uploads/1537-eds_bud_25.jpg

Nickdfresh
03-20-2007, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Na, I've heard the libs here call people who weren't fervent Bush defenders neocons.

That shit ain't gonna fly.

It's a word that's ready for retirement.

Who? Which one?

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The natural stuff used to work for me......

http://cannabisculture.com/library/images/uploads/1537-eds_bud_25.jpg

I'm on a daily regimen myself.

Warham
03-20-2007, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
I guess you haven't been paying attention. Like I said earlier, I don't have time to rehash things. Sorry to keep you wallowing in ignorance.

I'd love to hear your take all over again. :)

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I'd love to hear your take all over again. :)

Well, I'll give you the executive summary:

1. gw is incompetent and crooked and so are most of the people he appointed.

2. cheney is corrupt

3. the war in iraq was planned and executed poorly

4. some US policies over the last 60 years have led to a world climate more inclined to produce terrorists

5. The US is being (or has been) taken over by fascist corporate interests.

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
Well, I'll give you the executive summary:

1. gw is incompetent and crooked and so are most of the people he appointed.

2. cheney is corrupt

3. the war in iraq was planned and executed poorly

4. some US policies over the last 60 years have led to a world climate more inclined to produce terrorists

5. The US is being (or has been) taken over by fascist corporate interests.

1. I don't agree.

2. How so?

3. After the initial invasion, I would agree with you.

4. Are you referring to the US defending Israel? That's the crux of the whole matter.

5. More info.

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Warham
1. I don't agree.

2. How so?

3. After the initial invasion, I would agree with you.

4. Are you referring to the US defending Israel? That's the crux of the whole matter.

5. More info.

It's ok. You gave it a shot. I wasn't expecting a comprehensive response.

I would agree with you on #3 except I want to hammer the point that you and gw&friends don't understand the meaning of the word "war". The A-rabs do.

The Army does too. It was overruled.

Warham
03-20-2007, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by ODShowtime
It's ok. You gave it a shot. I wasn't expecting a comprehensive response.

I would agree with you on #3 except I want to hammer the point that you and gw&friends don't understand the meaning of the word "war". The A-rabs do.

The Army does too. It was overruled.

I didn't give you a comprehensive answer, because you didn't give me a comprehensive analysis of your thoughts. I'll always give a Cliff Notes® answer in this situation.

Hasn't George W. Bush said that this war was going to be 'tough' and 'hard work' a ridiculous number of times over the last four years?

ODShowtime
03-20-2007, 09:48 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I didn't give you a comprehensive answer, because you didn't give me a comprehensive analysis of your thoughts. I'll always give a Cliff Notes® answer in this situation.

Hasn't George W. Bush said that this war was going to be 'tough' and 'hard work' a ridiculous number of times over the last four years?

He can say whatever he wants. He's an imbecile.

We didn't plan this war properly. We fucked up and it's cost thousands of lives.

And I'm not even going to get into the fraudulent activity that helped justify the invasion.