View Full Version : Dr. Dean lays the SMACKDOWN on the BCE's fucked up foreign policy
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20060722/capt.sge.svx39.220706011708.photo00.photo.default-354x512.jpg?x=238&y=345&sig=2AajrWT8g6XZQVO2ant6Cg--
US Democratic opposition chief attacks Bush on Middle East
Fri Jul 21, 5:22 PM ET
Democratic National Committee chairman and former presidential hopeful Howard Dean accused US President George W. Bush of losing control of the Middle East by neglecting specific regional powers.
The opposition party chief said US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's planned trip to the region was an "important first step" but that she would have trouble finding a solution of the Lebanese conflict.
"The fact remains that the Bush administration has failed to substantially engage in the very difficult arena of Middle East peacemaking over the past six years," Dean said.
Dean said the Republican administration had to keep channels open with all regional players, despite its refusal to deal with either Syria or Iran, which it views as state sponsors of terror.
"Refusing to engage while talking tough and ignoring international problems is not a foreign policy. We must have a foreign policy that is both tough and smart," said Dean.
He called for "direct negotiations with all the people of the Middle East."
The "liberal" former Vermont governor was once a frontrunner in the race for 2004 democratic presidential nomination before his campaign fizzled out. (Or was more accurately sabotaged by the DLC and the whore media)
Link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060721/pl_afp/mideastconflictusrice_060721212250)
jcook11
07-22-2006, 01:59 AM
Tough and smart.....Hmmm....AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That'll scare off the sneaky bastards.
Originally posted by jcook11
Tough and smart.....Hmmm....AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
That'll scare off the sneaky bastards.
Worked for JFK in 1962, didn't it?
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 03:07 AM
Yeah, i saw him foaming at the mouth politicising the issue today.
It sounded great too, if you ignore the actual history of the Clinton Administration.
Can you say, Antifada?
Hey, Clinton was on the right track, i give him credit for trying but, all he proved was that appeasment doesn't work...
How can you deal with people who want to kill you?
You can't, because you'll be dead before you sit down at the table.
That said, we need a NEW foreign policy unlike any this country has ever adopted.
Clinton would have been remembered as a hero if he had succeeded at getting Rabin and Arafat on paper. And the only reason that deal failed to go through was that the Likud murdered Rabin, because then, as now, they do not want peace.
Doesn't mean Arafat was a saint. Sadat & Begin weren't saints either, but Jimmy Carter got them to talk and got the deal done.
Yet the BCE Republicans have occupied the White House more than anyone since WWII (and the creation of Israel) and they have not had ONE success in bringing peace to that clusterfuck of a region.
So clearly, the Democrats have a better track record with foreign policy, and Dean, as usual, is correct.
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Clinton would have been remembered as a hero if he had succeeded at getting Rabin and Arafat on paper. And the only reason that deal failed to go through was that the Likud murdered Rabin, because then, as now, they do not want peace.
Doesn't mean Arafat was a saint. Sadat & Begin weren't saints either, but Jimmy Carter got them to talk and got the deal done.
Yet the BCE Republicans have occupied the White House more than anyone since WWII (and the creation of Israel) and they have not had ONE success in bringing peace to that clusterfuck of a region.
So clearly, the Democrats have a better track record with foreign policy, and Dean, as usual, is correct.
Points well taken, and it saddens me to realize that i don't actually believe there ever will be peace in that region.
For every step forward they seem to take 2 steps backwards.
But i still think Dean went a bit too far in his speech when he made the statement that the Mid-East 'wouldn't' be in the conflict it is now if a Democrat were in the oval office.
His use of woulda, coulda, shoulda, fell on def ears.
It was just a bit unrealistic in my opinion.
But hey, whatever mobilizes the base support is a good thing i reckon.
One of the biggest problems across this country is the number of people that absolutely don't give a shit what's going on in the world at all.
Get THEM to the polls and we might actually start moving forward ourselves.
Dean's "woulda, shoulda, coulda" was probably a reference to his own candidacy as much anything. He openly said in a Democratic primary debate that he would take an even handed approach to Israel & Palestine, and Joe Lieberman immediately protested like Dean was calling for a new set of ovens to be built at Auschwitz. AIPAC is very much a part of every decision made in the DLC. Ironically enough, Steve Grossman, the former chair of AIPAC, was the head fundraiser for Dean's campaign. But then Grossman's AIPAC was not a Likud puppet agency like it is now, unfortunately.
The Likud doesn't want the Palestinians to have a seat at the table, because (as I posted in another thread) the Likud's "table" goes from the Nile to the Euphrates and they want it ALL.
I guess they don't even know their own history all that well. If all Moses had to do was cross the Nile to get out of Egypt (rather than the Red Sea) they could have spared the special effects budget from that Charlton Heston movie in the 50's.
BigBadBrian
07-22-2006, 08:07 AM
http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/113325.jpg
DEMON CUNT
07-22-2006, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian (D - Dumb Liar)
http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/113325.jpg
Look at what BigBlandBallsack learned from his TV!
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=968904
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Exactly, more unoriginal, redundant bullshit from unfunny right wing puke sites.
I love how the pictures are designed appeal to the unintelligent.
jcook11
07-22-2006, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Clinton would have been remembered as a hero if he had succeeded at getting Rabin and Arafat on paper. And the only reason that deal failed to go through was that the Likud murdered Rabin, because then, as now, they do not want peace.
Doesn't mean Arafat was a saint. Sadat & Begin weren't saints either, but Jimmy Carter got them to talk and got the deal done.
Yet the BCE Republicans have occupied the White House more than anyone since WWII (and the creation of Israel) and they have not had ONE success in bringing peace to that clusterfuck of a region.
So clearly, the Democrats have a better track record with foreign policy, and Dean, as usual, is correct.
All the BCES' in the world can't "bring" peace or impose peace when you have one party that doesn't want it in the first place.
DEMON CUNT
07-22-2006, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Exactly, more unoriginal, redundant bullshit from unfunny right wing puke sites.
I love how the pictures are designed appeal to the unintelligent.
Hence BigBlandBung's attraction to material of this sort. He's like a toddler playing with Daddy's keys.
DEMON CUNT
07-22-2006, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by jcook11
All the BCES' in the world can't "bring" peace or impose peace when you have one party that doesn't want it in the first place.
And yet you neocons keep voting for Republican war mongering profiteers.
http://www.realnews247.com/bush_cheny.jpg
BigBadBrian
07-22-2006, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Exactly, more unoriginal, redundant bullshit from unfunny right wing puke sites.
I love how the pictures are designed appeal to the unintelligent.
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to defend one another.
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
DEMON CUNT
07-22-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to defend one another.
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
http://www.babyminestore.com/images/babyblocks.jpg
Here we see BigBlandBlowhard carefully preparing his next post.
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to keep bashing Dean with the same dumb pictures.
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to defend one another.
I'm not defending anything. Actually, I'm making a critical statement of agreement assjockey, something you're apparently too dumb to do without some witless cartoon...
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
Oh, the irony is killing me!
Did they teach you how to formulate an opinion based on research, observations, and facts in college yet Brie?
Or do you subscribe to the typical prefabricated opinion, reinforced by selectively culled information, lies, half-truths, and personal attacks designed to prevent actual discussion of, and attention to, a given problem/issue.
You're little more than a troll at this point, and not a very clever one I might add...
ELVIS
07-22-2006, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by FORD
He called for "direct negotiations with all the people of the Middle East."
You agree with this, FORD ??
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
You agree with this, FORD ??
He'd like to, and so would i, if it were a perfect world.
There is a reason why we don't deal with terrorist's, because you can't deal with a terrorist.
The moment you appease them they want something else. and if terror got them one thing it will get them another.
Fuck That!
Violence and destruction is all they know, and that will never change until the mushroom clouds clear and all humanity is gone.
People can ignore those facts if they like, play politics until they're blue in the face but, the reality is right in front of us all.
The infighting among all of us sideliners only fuels the fire.
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 06:17 PM
Dean is a moron. There can't be peace in the fucking middle east. And to think that there every will be is fucking ridiculous.
And to think that a democrat would have made a difference...is ridiculous.
Cat is right...something different needs to be done...but not different from anything we've ever seen before.
The past 3 presidents, Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton had a presence overseas, and not just with the middle east. Those presidents were smart...had a brain...could see that relationships with our allies quite often were enough to either keep people in check...or fucking allow us to get the help we needed to keep people in check without having to do it ourselves.
Bush? He had the opportunity to create the biggest unilateral war against terror. The only thing he had to do was take his fucking idiot cowboy routine on the road after 9/11...
Now we're a fucking joke...
and we've created a middle east that made the 90's middle east look like an episode of Barney...
Yeah...we need a new fucking foreign policy...that is for sure...
ELVIS
07-22-2006, 06:51 PM
We shoulda been doing SHOCK AND FUCKING AWE for the last five years...
Talk to 'em...
yeah right...:rolleyes:
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
We shoulda been doing SHOCK AND FUCKING AWE for the last five years...
Talk to 'em...
yeah right...:rolleyes:
Funny how the guys who've never served in the military are the biggest crowing chest-thumpers...
Maybe you can enlist, and give some "shack & awe" whilst killing for Jesus, like he said to do in the good book...
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Dean is a moron. There can't be peace in the fucking middle east. And to think that there every will be is fucking ridiculous.
And to think that a democrat would have made a difference...is ridiculous.
Cat is right...something different needs to be done...but not different from anything we've ever seen before.
The past 3 presidents, Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton had a presence overseas, and not just with the middle east. Those presidents were smart...had a brain...could see that relationships with our allies quite often were enough to either keep people in check...or fucking allow us to get the help we needed to keep people in check without having to do it ourselves.
Bush? He had the opportunity to create the biggest unilateral war against terror. The only thing he had to do was take his fucking idiot cowboy routine on the road after 9/11...
Now we're a fucking joke...
and we've created a middle east that made the 90's middle east look like an episode of Barney...
Yeah...we need a new fucking foreign policy...that is for sure...
Dean may or may not be a moron.
But I'm still having trouble finding someone to explain how we would have been stupid enough to invade Iraq if Gore had won the electoral college as he did the popular vote...
Dr. Love
07-22-2006, 08:12 PM
Peace in the middle east would be simple if they all understood there was only one alternative.
http://www.healthtreasures.com/images/nuclear-bomb-radiation-2.jpg
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 08:13 PM
Woulda...Coulda...what might?.....
No offense Nick...but even I'm tired of all that shit.
Maybe that's the problem with this fucking country. Instead of learning from history 6 years ago...we're still living in history.
It's done...over...
Bush is in the white house...a fucking moron above all morons...
I don't think we'd be in Iraq with Gore...
but Gore's not president...
I don't know if that would have made the Middle East much more stable than it is.
The problem will have to be fixed in 2 years...with whoever wins...
they HAVE to have a foreign presence...and that presence has to overwhelm. Nearly all past presidents transcended the US office to the people of other countries...
until Bush...
I've said it from the start...regardless of my party affiliation. I don't care WHO'S running the country...if you put a fucking dipshit in office as your president...sooner or later...he's going to do something or say something...or do NOTHING...that overwhelms the real control.
as for the Middle East...they were a lost cause years ago.
Carter and Clinton gave the facade of closeness...
but bullets would and did end all of that bullshit.
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 08:17 PM
As for Dean...all he does is turn people OFF at this point...including a good % of the people in his own party.
it's all in the approach...
the only thing I like about Dean is that he's the only democrat with a set of balls...that actually will take a fucking stand on something...
I'm so sick of listening to fucking Pelosi, that cuntbag and her do nothing...say nothing bullshit...
what she needs is gangraped with an encylopedia...or a scrolled up constitution...
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 08:20 PM
Honestly Doc...
I think that approach is a fucking no-brainer...
fucking Israel telling us to stay out of their business...
we should have declared war the next day...lmfao...
pulled the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan...slid them to Israel...bitchslapped them...
then brought them home...
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Funny how the guys who've never served in the military are the biggest crowing chest-thumpers...
Maybe you can enlist, and give some "shack & awe" whilst killing for Jesus, like he said to do in the good book...
You know what, bro?
This schtick where you attack people for not serving is a copout.
It is a volunteer service and if people don't join it doesn't give them any less right to speak their mind, especially if Nick doesn't agree with it, and you know why?
BECAUSE WE PAY FUCKING TAXES AND THOSE FUNDS HELP PAY FOR OUR MILITARY!
If you are an american citizen you have a vested interest in what goes on with our troops.
Give that shit a rest Mr. "I served and you didn't".
You did your time (or maybe that's bullshit) and you have been thanked for your service...now sit down and shut up until you have something REAL to reply with.
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
You know what, bro?
This schtick where you attack people for not serving is a copout.
It is a volunteer service and if people don't join it doesn't give them any less right to speak their mind, especially if Nick doesn't agree with it, and you know why?
BECAUSE WE PAY FUCKING TAXES AND THOSE FUNDS HELP PAY FOR OUR MILITARY!
If you are an american citizen you have a vested interest in what goes on with our troops.
Give that shit a rest Mr. "I served and you didn't".
You did your time (or maybe that's bullshit) and you have been thanked for your service...now sit down and shut up until you have something REAL to reply with.
You know what bro, the shtick about "shocking and awing" is what's old...
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 09:03 PM
I've got no problem with people who served feeling that way...
maybe they have the right to FEEL that way...
but I do agree with Cat...My Dad (Vietnam) and Grandfather (WWII) served...my brother (Desert Storm) served...and I was set to serve...and not going to get into why I didn't...frankly...it's none of your business.
a few of my tax dollars help those folk...
I've lost two friends...one from my wedding party in this "war"...
and I fucking dare ANYONE to question my love of this country...
so no offense...but anyone that tells me I have no fucking business commenting on the war and what we should do because I didn't serve can kiss my ass...
besides...ask Va what he thinks...ask Sarge what he things...
both 20 year Vets in the military....one retired...one just about there...
I'm sure you'll find their opinions different...
of course...I'm not a chest thumper to go to war...lmfao...
but shit like that I have issues with...
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 09:04 PM
Man...I must be bored if I'm about to jump into this fucking battle...
nevermind...you get my point...
have fun gents...blowing way past the whole point...;)
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 09:06 PM
on a sidenote...good to see you Cat...
and Nick...I see your hairy fucking neck every day...so...
fuck you...;)...
awww hell...why leave Cat feeling left out...fuck you both...;)
LoungeMachine
07-22-2006, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
we should have declared war the next day...lmfao...
pulled the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan...slid them to Israel...bitchslapped them...
then brought them home...
But the truth is, we're spread so thin right now Iceland could declare war with us tonight and we'd have to deeply cuntsider surrendering.
And why is that?
Why are we, the 5% of the world's population, who spends 50% OF THE WORLD'S DEFENSE SPENDING, a fucking stud with Limp Dick Syndrome?
Because we done shot our wad.
There it is.
We're impotent at this point to do JACK-ALL-SHIT to anybody
:rolleyes:
We can barely feed and armor our troops in country now, fighting a bunch of "insurgents"
Hey, get Zell Miller down here right now with his legion of "Spitballs"
We're gonna fight. :rolleyes:
Oh, and if you're looking to our "National Guard"......please don't.
They're too busy guarding private contractors building golden palaces in the shadows of Saddam's former palaces.
:mad:
LoungeMachine
07-22-2006, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Man...I must be bored if I'm about to jump into this fucking battle...
nevermind...you get my point...
have fun gents...blowing way past the whole point...;)
Yeah, don't you have some webmastering to do or something? ;)
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 09:13 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
You know what bro, the shtick about "shocking and awing" is what's old...
Hey, i agree with you somewhat, the shock and awe shit was a joke in my opinion.
My problem is with how you fall back on YOUR service as some high and mighty dude riding a big old white horse.
I'm with Pojo, I was set to serve but, wasn't accepted for health issues.
But don't you sit there and think for one minute that i wouldn't pick up a weapon and stand right next to those who were fortunate enough to fullfill their percieved destiny and put on that uniform.
I respect the fact that you served, i lose a lot of that respect when you pull that shit on people and you do it often.
My point is that you offend people with that attitude, which you are entitled to as Pojo pointed out, but we are also just entitled to our opinions as you are, whether we have served or not.
Luv Ya! ;)
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 09:14 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
on a sidenote...good to see you Cat...
and Nick...I see your hairy fucking neck every day...so...
fuck you...;)...
awww hell...why leave Cat feeling left out...fuck you both...;)
I'm all about a good fucking, your place or Nick's?
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
But the truth is, we're spread so thin right now Iceland could declare war with us tonight and we'd have to deeply cuntsider surrendering.
And why is that?
Why are we, the 5% of the world's population, who spends 50% OF THE WORLD'S DEFENSE SPENDING, a fucking stud with Limp Dick Syndrome?
Because we done shot our wad.
There it is.
We're impotent at this point to do JACK-ALL-SHIT to anybody
:rolleyes:
We can barely feed and armor our troops in country now, fighting a bunch of "insurgents"
Hey, get Zell Miller down here right now with his legion of "Spitballs"
We're gonna fight. :rolleyes:
Oh, and if you're looking to our "National Guard"......please don't.
They're too busy guarding private contractors building golden palaces in the shadows of Saddam's former palaces.
:mad:
Don't forget the 2nd Ammendment, Lounge...I have the right to bear arms to defend this country too, without a uniform.
You might be surprised how many of us there really are out here in society.
I'd even bet you would step up should the need arise...i can read that in your personality.
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 09:18 PM
Well...my kids are here...let's meet at Nick's...
we can get some good wings afterwards...
don't want the flaming shits to effect anything beforehand...
We'll let Nick play soldier...
POJO_Risin
07-22-2006, 09:20 PM
As for being spread thin right now...well...
that's another discussion altogether...
I'm still under the frame of mind that we need to have a 2-year requirement...
in some form or another...
1. It would help the country with the military...
2. It would help parents not fucking run themselves into the ground paying for college...
WEll...I'll stop there...that's not the topic...
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Well...my kids are here...let's meet at Nick's...
we can get some good wings afterwards...
don't want the flaming shits to effect anything beforehand...
We'll let Nick play soldier...
I'll bring the KY, Ford, and the Guinness...:)
Ok, the joke is dead now, any more and we're all fucking gay.
LoungeMachine
07-22-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Ok, the joke is dead now, any more and we're all fucking gay.
Sorry, Cat.
That ship has sailed......;)
LoungeMachine
07-22-2006, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
I'll bring the KY, FORD, and the Guinness...:)
.
Cuntgrats.
You just made my sig again :D
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Sorry, Cat.
That ship has sailed......;)
LMMFAO, well, i kind of figured it had...Oh well, anyone for a reach around?
You?
Mr. Dean?
Why i never suspected you were about all that, YAAAAAAARRRRGGHHH!
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 10:04 PM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
I've got no problem with people who served feeling that way...
maybe they have the right to FEEL that way...
but I do agree with Cat...My Dad (Vietnam) and Grandfather (WWII) served...my brother (Desert Storm) served...and I was set to serve...and not going to get into why I didn't...frankly...it's none of your business.
a few of my tax dollars help those folk...
I've lost two friends...one from my wedding party in this "war"...
and I fucking dare ANYONE to question my love of this country...
so no offense...but anyone that tells me I have no fucking business commenting on the war and what we should do because I didn't serve can kiss my ass...
Yo bro, sorry to hear about your friends. They have my deepest thanks, and you and their families have my sincerest condolences...
But, let's not confuse one thing here. I by no means think you had to wear a uniform, kevlar, and had to marched in step with a bunch of smelly, pimply-faced 18 year olds with an M-16/14 slung over your shoulder in order to have an opinion on war, or to be a patriot. That's not my point at all. In fact, some of the best officers and soldiers that served in WWII were not in the peacetime US military, but were drafted or enlisted after Pearl Harbor, and were often outperforming their professional counterparts.
The problem is that some guys jack-off to footage of bombs lighting up the night sky in some foreign capital, and think that that is the answer. That by punishing and destroying people, you're somehow teaching them a lesson. The ideal of "clinical war," of the dropping of precision-bombs and blowing things to fuck only gets the bad guys is pretty simplistic. The thing about serving, about shitting your pants when the "balloon goes up" (when we go to war) is that you get a certain perspective. The kind of perspective only gained when filling out your last will in testament when you're 19-years old and about to be deployed to some sand-filled shithole you've only read about. I get a little sick of the seventh-grade macho-bullshit spouted by some here (and I wasn't posting to Cat, so I don't know why he jumped my shit). I think there's a big problem with the whole shock and awe mentality, the watching the explosions light up the night sky over Beirut, and think that that some how will solve every problem. Well, we fucking "shocked and awed" Baghdad, but I think a soldier on the ground that sees the shit it causes, the civilians that get killed and the bitterness it engenders, might have a slightly different idea of what works and what doesn't work, because the world isn't that simple.
And quite frankly, the "who served" issue only comes up when these so-called scripture quoting Christians who think that we can solve everything by dropping enough bombs, as if it's a fireworks entertainment show they can jack-off too while watching Fox News, begin calling every one they disagree with a "commie-lib" and insinuating that they're unpatriotic just because they disagree with the retards in the Bush Administration (like a long list of people with a great deal of Nat'l Security credibility in the military and the intelligence community have). Where was Cat when I was having my balls busted for being an unpatriotic commie-lib? Or when people here actually were posting that there is no way I ever was in the military?
I make no apologies for anything...
besides...ask Va what he thinks...ask Sarge what he things...
both 20 year Vets in the military....one retired...one just about there...
I'm sure you'll find their opinions different...
I respect both of their opinions in everything I've ever read by them. Both have shown a sense of realism and candor. Unfortunately, neither one posts here much anymore...
of course...I'm not a chest thumper to go to war...lmfao...
but shit like that I have issues with...
Well, it's not our war anyway. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me...
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
Dean is a moron. There can't be peace in the fucking middle east. And to think that there every will be is fucking ridiculous.
And to think that a democrat would have made a difference...is ridiculous.
Cat is right...something different needs to be done...but not different from anything we've ever seen before.
The past 3 presidents, Reagan, Bush 1 and Clinton had a presence overseas, and not just with the middle east. Those presidents were smart...had a brain...could see that relationships with our allies quite often were enough to either keep people in check...or fucking allow us to get the help we needed to keep people in check without having to do it ourselves.
You're contradicting yourself here. You call Dean a "moron" for saying the same thing that you then say yourself. The fact that the other recent Presidents had some degree of foreign policy success.
Reagan could have ended the nuclear arms race for good in Iceland, but he backed out at the last minute.He wiould have been ranked among the greatest Presidents ever had he succeeded.
Poppy built a REAL coalition to stand against Saddam Hussein in 1991.
Clinton had Israel and Palestine on the verge of a deal before Rabin was murdered. He tried again with Ehud Barak 5 years later. Meanwhile, he had suiccess in Ireland, stopping the violence in the troubled north.
Going back further, Nixon had some degree of success with both China and the USSR.
JFK successfully stared down the Soviet war machine in 1962 without a shot fired. Throw someone like Chimpy into that situation and we wouldn't be here to discuss it todsy.
No honest person could deny the poistives of froeign policy as mentioned above, regardless of party affiliation. But all honest people must agree that the Chimp is a total failure compared to any of them.
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Yo bro, sorry to hear about your friends. They have my deepest thanks, and you and their families have my sincerest condolences...
But, let's not confuse one thing here. I by no means think you had to wear a uniform, kevlar, and had to marched in step with a bunch of smelly, pimply-faced 18 year olds with an M-16/14 slung over your shoulder in order to have an opinion on war, or to be a patriot. That's not my point at all. In fact, some of the best officers and soldiers that served in WWII were not in the peacetime US military, but were drafted or enlisted after Pearl Harbor, and were often outperforming their professional counterparts.
The problem is that some guys jack-off to footage of bombs lighting up the night sky in some foreign capital, and think that that is the answer. That by punishing and destroying people, you're somehow teaching them a lesson. The ideal of "clinical war," of the dropping of precision-bombs and blowing things to fuck only gets the bad guys is pretty simplistic. The thing about serving, about shitting your pants when the "balloon goes up" (when we go to war) is that you get a certain perspective. The kind of perspective only gained when filling out your last will in testament when you're 19-years old and about to be deployed to some sand-filled shithole you've only read about. I get a little sick of the seventh-grade macho-bullshit spouted by some here (and I wasn't posting to Cat, so I don't know why he jumped my shit). I think there's a big problem with the whole shock and awe mentality, the watching the explosions light up the night sky over Beirut, and think that that some how will solve every problem. Well, we fucking "shocked and awed" Baghdad, but I think a soldier on the ground that sees the shit it causes, the civilians that get killed and the bitterness it engenders, might have a slightly different idea of what works and what doesn't work, because the world isn't that simple.
And quite frankly, the "who served" issue only comes up when these so-called scripture quoting Christians who think that we can solve everything by dropping enough bombs, as if it's a fireworks entertainment show they can jack-off too while watching Fox News, begin calling every one they disagree with a "commie-lib" and insinuating that they're unpatriotic just because they disagree with the retards in the Bush Administration (like a long list of people with a great deal of Nat'l Security credibility in the military and the intelligence community have). Where was Cat when I was having my balls busted for being an unpatriotic commie-lib? Or when people here actually were posting that there is no way I ever was in the military?
I make no apologies for anything...
I respect both of their opinions in everything I've ever read by them. Both have shown a sense of realism and candor. Unfortunately, neither one posts here much anymore...
Well, it's not our war anyway. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me...
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Funny how the guys who've never served in the military are the biggest crowing chest-thumpers...
Maybe you can enlist, and give some "shack & awe" whilst killing for Jesus, like he said to do in the good book...
Read this post again, Nick. It was a pretty generalized opinion you were throwing down in that first line of bullshit you posted.
You didn't address Elvis directly until the second half of the post and me being a GUY WHO HASN'T SERVED, and the fact that you and i don't agree on this or any other war under the Bush Administration, what am i supposed to summize from that?
In the future if you don't want your ass jumped, be more specific.
I for one am tired of you using that card against people.
Oh, and i offer no apologies either, lol.
Incidentally, i wasn't defending Elvis, he's a big boy and can take care of himself.
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well, it's not our war anyway. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including me...
I respect your opinions, always have, always will.
But you are wrong, this is partly our war whether you acknowledge it or not.
It's our bombs they are using basically, and today we just sent them more missiles.
You don't want to be a target, i get that, but we are and have been for decades.
Nickdfresh
07-22-2006, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Cathedral
Read this post again, Nick. It was a pretty generalized opinion you were throwing down in that first line of bullshit you posted.
You didn't address Elvis directly until the second half of the post and me being a GUY WHO HASN'T SERVED, and the fact that you and i don't agree on this or any other war under the Bush Administration, what am i supposed to summize from that?
Um dude, it was this post in which it all started, try to look at it carefully.
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=982803#post982803
In the future if you don't want your ass jumped, be more specific.
I for one am tired of you using that card against people.
Oh, and i offer no apologies either, lol.
Incidentally, i wasn't defending Elvis, he's a big boy and can take care of himself.
Really, much like if "you vote Democrat, you're a pro-abortion baby-killer" card you've thrown out in the past.:)
LoungeMachine
07-22-2006, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to defend one another.
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
Just curious, Brie....since you resorted to the Gay Card here...
Is it any less "pwecious" when you, WarBOT, ASSPIPE, and ELVIRA give each other the reach around in here?
Or is that somehow considered manly according to your Jeff Gannon Book of Studs Handbook
LMAO
:rolleyes:
Cathedral
07-22-2006, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Um dude, it was this post in which it all started, try to look at it carefully.
http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=982803#post982803
Really, much like if "you vote Democrat, you're a pro-abortion baby-killer" card you've thrown out in the past.:)
I quoted that post in my second to last one, it was the second quote in that post. if you're referring to what Elvis posted, that wasn't what set me off, it was YOUR reply.
And i still stick by my comment about being a baby killer if you vote for people who continue to support the practice of killing babies.
And soldiers who die in a war serving a country they CHOSE to serve is no defense of that argument. babies aren't concieved wearing a uniform and the only battlefield they've been on was the one in the clinics office they were discarded in.
But i understand now that you didn't mean it in such a general term, so i'm done with this argument.
NEXT!
Nickdfresh
07-23-2006, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by Cathedral
I quoted that post in my second to last one, it was the second quote in that post. if you're referring to what Elvis posted, that wasn't what set me off, it was YOUR reply.
Well then, if my replies not made to you set you off, then I suggest you don;t read 'em.
And i still stick by my comment about being a baby killer if you vote for people who continue to support the practice of killing babies.
You mean the Israelis and Hezbollah?
And soldiers who die in a war serving a country they CHOSE to serve is no defense of that argument. babies aren't concieved wearing a uniform and the only battlefield they've been on was the one in the clinics office they were discarded in.
Yeah, but once their out of the vagina, babies mean shit to you guys. Fuck 'em, their mom collects welfare, right?
But i understand now that you didn't mean it in such a general term, so i'm done with this argument.
NEXT!
Me too...
Dr. Love
07-23-2006, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Cuntgrats.
You just made my sig again :D
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I really don't have room for another quote in my sig, but damn...........:D
:(
Cathedral
07-23-2006, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Well then, if my replies not made to you set you off, then I suggest you don;t read 'em.
Good point, but i did, and you got shit for it, lol.
You mean the Israelis and Hezbollah?
No, but i don't support their policies, just Israel's right to co-exist on the planet and their right to defend themselves
Yeah, but once their out of the vagina, babies mean shit to you guys. Fuck 'em, their mom collects welfare, right?
Another general statement, do you have any kids, Nick? well i do, i had two of them that weren't aborted so that sort of contradicts your claim that I don't care about them after they're born. Should i care about other people's babies? well i sort of do because tax dollars pay for that welfare, your dollars too as a matter of fact but, i also believe that people should be accountable for their own lives, just like I am.
Me too...
Damn does all this make me a neo-con or just a responsible individual?
LMMFAO, it's always fun to banter with you, Nick.
You at least bring substance to the table, hard for me to recognize substance at times, but substance just the same.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend, buddy...;)
Originally posted by Cathedral
I'll bring the KY, FORD, and the Guinness...:)
Cool.... I'll be sitting on the couch drinking the Guinness :gulp:
Y'all can sort the gay shit out amongst yourselves..... ;)
Cathedral
07-23-2006, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by FORD
Cool.... I'll be sitting on the couch drinking the Guinness :gulp:
Y'all can sort the gay shit out amongst yourselves..... ;)
ROTMFFLMMFAO...
BigBadBrian
07-23-2006, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by POJO_Risin
I've got no problem with people who served feeling that way...
maybe they have the right to FEEL that way...
but I do agree with Cat...My Dad (Vietnam) and Grandfather (WWII) served...my brother (Desert Storm) served...and I was set to serve...and not going to get into why I didn't...frankly...it's none of your business.
a few of my tax dollars help those folk...
I've lost two friends...one from my wedding party in this "war"...
and I fucking dare ANYONE to question my love of this country...
so no offense...but anyone that tells me I have no fucking business commenting on the war and what we should do because I didn't serve can kiss my ass...
besides...ask Va what he thinks...ask Sarge what he things...
both 20 year Vets in the military....one retired...one just about there...
I'm sure you'll find their opinions different...
of course...I'm not a chest thumper to go to war...lmfao...
but shit like that I have issues with...
Good post, along with the one Cat posted on the same subject.
I'm retired from the Navy and feel ANYONE has a right to assume a position on anything this country does, INCLUDING DECISIONS OF FOREIGN POLICY, whether they served in the military or not.
No...I'm not dogging out Nick or anyone else who've made posts stating otherwise. I think most of those posts were made to deliberately piss people off, just like the other 95% of the posts in this forum.
I don't feel, however, that being a vet gives a person in this country a leg up on others who didn't serve.
I only wished others felt the same.
Good day.
:gulp:
BigBadBrian
07-23-2006, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Just curious, Brie....since you resorted to the Gay Card here...
Is it any less "pwecious" when you, WarBOT, ASSPIPE, and ELVIRA give each other the reach around in here?
I don't know these people.
Do you realize how childish it sounds to call these people these names?
I simply cannot take you seriously when you act this way. I have images of you being a little boy playing in his sandbox.
Did you flunk second grade or something and the name-calling mentality somehow stuck with you?
:)
LoungeMachine
07-23-2006, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
How gay. :)
Feeling the need to defend one another.
Ahhh.....Idn't dat pwecious!
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Do you realize how childish it sounds to call these people these names?
I simply cannot take you seriously when you act this way. I have images of you being a little boy playing in his sandbox.
Did you flunk second grade or something and the name-calling mentality somehow stuck with you?
:)
LMMFAO
So much for taking the high road, Brie :D
You bask in your hypocrisy in here, dontcha:)
Perhaps your need to play the Gay card comes from within. Some inner guilt you're having to deal with. ;)
And nicknames in here are signs of affection, Brie. I laugh when you dummy cons like ASSPipe call me Douche Machine. It means I'm getting to you.
But nice try at attempting to claim the high ground. LMAO
I didn't flunk second grade, but that WAS just about the time guys started calling you gay, right? :)
DrMaddVibe
07-24-2006, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
http://www.strangepolitics.com/images/content/113325.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/lileks/.Public/Yeagh.mp3
jcook11
07-24-2006, 07:54 PM
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH". How can anyone argue with logic like that?
diamondD
07-24-2006, 09:52 PM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8vLVJVyVmA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8vLVJVyVmA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object
Cathedral
07-25-2006, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by diamondD
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8vLVJVyVmA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V8vLVJVyVmA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="350"></embed></object
ROTMFFLMMFAO...
I really didn't think that was funny. His "Black Chimpy" was hilarious, but that one just didn't work. Maybe it is better that he pulled the plug on the show after all.........
Cathedral
07-25-2006, 01:24 AM
I thought it was pretty funny, maybe a bit drawn out and not his best parody ever...I was not aware he pulled the plug though.
I don't watch much tv anymore.
diamondD
07-25-2006, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I really didn't think that was funny. His "Black Chimpy" was hilarious, but that one just didn't work. Maybe it is better that he pulled the plug on the show after all.........
WOW!! I was totally blindsided by that one! :rolleyes: ;)
Originally posted by diamondD
WOW!! I was totally blindsided by that one! :rolleyes: ;)
Seriously, if Chappelle had done a funny parody of Howard Dean, I'd be laughing harder than anyone, but that just wasn't it.
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