Guns Don't Kill People, God Kills People

[LoungeMachine]

Organized Religion.

or Cult.

Sorry, but I still can't quite figure out the subtle differences.


Same goes for Islamic Fundamentalists and Christian Fundamentalists.

What's the difference other than the uniform?


Why do all religions claim if you follow THEIR teachings you will be rewarded eternal happiness, and if you DON'T you'll burn in hell?

Is a Christian theif and murderer a better person than the honest and peace loving Muslim? Really? Why?


I seriously wish some of you zealots in here would/could take a step back and see just how similar your views are to those you vilify.


And since you always seem to fall back on the "it's God's Plan" tact, instead of free will and/or cause & effect logic.....then how do you come to grips with the fact your God kills good people, including children, for no good reason.


I don't actually expect any cult members to defend anything in this thread, It's just my way of getting things out there for discusssion.

I like reading the views of other fence-sitting skeptics such as Sesh.

[Seshmeister]

Dude I've long since jumped over the fence, thrown a hand grenade behind me and then taken a flame thrower to the fence.

The only difference between cults and the big religions is how long they've been around and how many members they have.

Its that simple.

For example Scientology is insane. Anyone in their right mind can see that. Yet Christainity and Islam is almost as insane but the majority of people can't.

The last possible reason for organised religion/superstition was that it keeps stupid people in fear and makes them behave better and more morally through threats and promises of eternal life.

My gut feeling was this was bullshit but its now been statistically proved. In a recent survey of prison inmates in the US only 3% said they were atheists...

I've repeatedly made posts here asking for someone to give a point or an argument that made any sort of sense against the spectacular amount of evidence against any of it.

All we ever get in response is tha you have to have 'faith'. Faith is having a belief without any evidence.

The only difference between being agnostic or atheist is that athiests take the time to look into it. I probably know more about the history of Christiainity now than 95% of Christians which is kind of amazing when you think that I have done maybe 30 hours of reading on average they have gone to church for an hour every week for 30 years so 50 times as much time ignoring all the other shit like bible groups or whatnot.

Church attendance here is now at about 10% or less and Britain is pretty much a secular country so why do I rant on about it? Well firstly because the ruling elite like Blair are from the small minority and politicians here on the whole are or pretend to be superstitious. Secondly a the moment we are now effectively a satellite state of the US in the same way Eastern European countries were in the years of the Iron Curtain. Fuck knows why. We don't get shit in return.

For example there are 189 countries calling for a ceasefire in Lebanon at the moment. 3 aren't. The US, the UK and Israel.



Cheers!

:gulp:

[LoungeMachine]

Now that was worth waiting for.

Exactly.

Thanks Sesh.


:gulp:

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
keeps stupid people in fear


Cheers!

:gulp:


:rolleyes:

[Seshmeister]

They should replace the cross on the top of your superstition misinformation centres with a big rolleyes smiley...:)

[ELVIS]

Superstition misinformation centres ??

[Nickdfresh]

Well, I don't confuse organized religion with the idea of spirituality of a possible God. But organized religion is anything BUT spiritual...

It stopped being so when early Christians began basing their hierarchy on the local Roman chain-of-command of city-state governments...

[Nickdfresh]

And it continues today with undereducated evangelicals thinking they find all the answers by the literal interpretation of a document selectively edited, and mistranslated over centuries by men seeking, or maintaining, power...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
But organized religion is anything BUT spiritual...



How can you be so sure about that being an outside observer ??

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And it continues today with undereducated evangelicals thinking they find all the answers by the literal interpretation of a document selectively edited, and mistranslated over centuries by men seeking, or maintaining, power...

LMAO!

You're nuttier than FORD...

By a long shot...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
How can you be so sure about that being an outside observer ??

Ask yourself the same question, cultist...

By being an independent, outside observer, one can be objective without all of the manipulation, "group think," and misinformation...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
LMAO!

You're nuttier than FORD...

By a long shot...

LMAO! Why don't you explain why? Offer an example?

You can't.

You have nothing but a crutch...

[Seshmeister]

BTW I'm the second coming. I am the son of god. Unfortuantely I don't have any proof of that whatsoever.

All you need is faith.

Worship me.

I may be talking shit but at least you know empirically I exist so that has to be an easier leap of faith...

[Seshmeister]

All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom,
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid,
Who made the spikey urchin,
Who made the sharks, He did.
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all.
AMEN.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Superstition misinformation centres ??


Okay.

Centers.


Is that better, CULTVIS?

:rolleyes:

[Nickdfresh]

Centres is the English/UK way of spelling centers..

Much as they spell the word theater as theatre. And like they insert u after the o in words like armour, tumour, humour...

Of course, Elvis being a hick wouldn't know that...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Centres is the English/UK way of spelling centers..

Much as they spell the word theater as theatre. And like they insert u after the o in words like armour, tumour, humour...

Of course, Elvis being a hick wouldn't know that...


I know it, you know it, the American people know it.

But ELVIRA has trouble getting the Gumbo out of his ears.

;)

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Centres is the English/UK way of spelling centers..

Much as they spell the word theater as theatre. And like they insert u after the o in words like armour, tumour, humour...

Of course, Elvis being a hick wouldn't know that...


Hilarious.

I remember going on sporting exchanges as a kid, staying at someone's house in Washington and Oregon.

It was crazy to me, even as an 11 or 12 year old how some of the Americans I stayed with truly thought the sun rose and set on the good ol United States.

I love you guys, but some of you truly need to look at the rest of the world.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And it continues today with undereducated evangelicals thinking they find all the answers by the literal interpretation of a document selectively edited, and mistranslated over centuries by men seeking, or maintaining, power...

One more time

[Cathedral]

And all this time i thought it was the bullets that killed people.

Oh well, what can ya do?

Incidentally, I have an issue (yes, another one) with our NEW pastor.
he seems to cry without tears, and it's ususally a dramatic event when he turns on the faucet, with no water.

I'm really at a loss for words when it comes to church anymore.

I do believe in God, I believe he is real. It's people i have no faith in.
That includes those who stand before a congregation and tells them what they want to hear as the golden plates lined with red velvet appear before their faces.

Hey brother, can ya spare a dime?

But i have a plan, it is to take a live chicken with me as my tithe.
The scripture says that 10% of everything we own belongs to God and is to be given to him.
It doesn't state that he is entitled solely to everything we earn, meaning money.

If a church rejects my offering of the chicken, then they aren't in line with what God's word says...and honestly, NO church is in the modern day.
And this will be my best chicken.

Take Benny Hinn for an extreme example...his suits? $5,000. His homes total more than $50 Million, his cars total more than $1 Million......How much did Jesus pull down during his minestry?

What would Jesus do indeed.

In closing, God is entitled to everything i own, he can have it, just as soon as he shows up at my door to collect it.
Until then, it stays put in what i'll call God's savings account.
Benny Hinn and all his ilk will have to find another source of fraudulent income to live high on the hog with, I have a child to spoil. :)

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Cathedral

But i have a plan, it is to take a live chicken with me as my tithe.
The scripture says that 10% of everything we own belongs to God and is to be given to him.
It doesn't state that he is entitled solely to everything we earn, meaning money.

If a church rejects my offering of the chicken, then they aren't in line with what God's word says...and honestly, NO church is in the modern day.
And this will be my best chicken.




Keep us posted:baaa:

[BigBadBrian]

The fear by liberals of the Christian religion continues to amaze me.

You people are to be pitied.

:gulp:

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The fear by liberals of the Christian religion continues to amaze me.

You people are to be pitied.

:gulp:

Nice, well-thought out post Brianne. Apparently you like the other supposed "Christian" here are unable to engage in any dialogue that questions their blind acceptance...

You guys must not really be very good Christians, just weak and unable to justify what they believe...

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Nice, well-thought out post Brianne. Apparently you like the other supposed "Christian" here are unable to engage in any dialogue that questions their blind acceptance...

You guys must not really be very good Christians, just weak and unable to justify what they believe...

Whatever.... :rolleyes:

I pity you.

:gulp:

[thome]

You have to believe in something -first- in order to -not- believe in it.

You must manifest it's existance, in order to destroy it in your mind.

Raise your hatred for the believers.

Why don't you mosey on down the path of guilt free living and continue to talk about things you -don't- belive in.

You are all the same dudes who talk obout war like its candy pie and
not serious bizz .Non stop

Why I Hate What I Don't Believe in ......(should be the title of every thread about, reli, war, hetero sex ,america, bush, etc.., )

You are all believers, your outward manifestaion of the hatred, or foolishness of christianity, is simply your fear.

Smoke on that and tell me what cha got ....

Ps. doesn't mean i don't like you , wouldn't want to crush and egos..lol

[thome]

I love religion talk and i love people who talk about things they don't, believe in, do you get it, can you see it ,what you don't believe in.


More like what you refuse to accept that this -ALL- might be more than the Whole concept of -Human- thinking and thought prosseses and all
the conceptuall concepts of even the non acceptance of the reality of
non-reality may be -More- than you or anyone has any idea about at All.

If six was nine would you still belive it was ?.

Who gave your mind the ability to think that you have any actual ability
to understand what you cannot concieve ?

[thome]

The study of creation and the folly of mans existance can be summed up in two words, Divine Ignorance.

Who blessed us with the ability to understand more about what's going on around us than the originator of the original thought.

Who gave me the ability to even think that last sentance has any meaning whatsoeva'

How can you cuss something that no-one can even concieve.

It's the ones who pervert the study of truth that sour you mind to
the study of spirituality and religion.

For every sour apple there are millions of great thinkers trying to help us all .

[thome]

Yeah i know if all this was true then someone devine or one of these great thinkers shurely would have blessed me with the ability to form
proper sentances and spell gooder.

Roth on Muthas!

[thome]

Here is alittle bit o honey for ya.

I have (garage sale) a 1919 University Edition Biology Book.Yes, the cumulative knowlege of all mankind as far as Biology.

The structure of a single cell is a pencil drawing of a box with a dot in it for the nucleus.

Einstiens theories are in question now, every day everthing we -KNEW- to be exact and the -Bottom Line- is disproven over and over.

We believe what we are able to concieve as reality, at the moment in time we exist in, anything else is impossible.

Or you end up in a cult of the reality you create wich may be wrong as far as the time you exist in .

Your attempt to control this is what gives rise to Oprah and your Doctor Phils and all the sorry saps that tune in the Swaggerts and
other such charlatans of truth.

Right and Wrong do exist so why not a higher power of some sort..?

thome 3:16

yeah tho.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
The fear by liberals of the Christian religion continues to amaze me.

You people are to be pitied.

:gulp:


So in YOUR mind........skepticism equals fear?

:confused:

Where do you get this shit?


Follow blindly.

Don't ask questions.

Don't think for yourself.



I do think it's funny how FEAR is your guys' favorite button.:rolleyes:



More violent death and hatred is caused in the name of religion than anything else.

I guess I do fear you guys. You all want to kill those who don't think and believe as you do.

So much for "Love thy Neighbor" :rolleyes:

[thome]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So in YOUR mind........skepticism equals fear?

:confused:

Where do you get this shit?


Follow blindly.

Don't ask questions.

Don't think for yourself.



I do think it's funny how FEAR is your guys' favorite button.:rolleyes:



More violent death and hatred is caused in the name of religion than anything else.

I guess I do fear you guys. You all want to kill those who don't think and believe as you do.

So much for "Love thy Neighbor" :rolleyes:

5 (Five) Bucks sais more has been done in the name of love by these
very same people your talking about but bake sales to raise money
for downtrodden people doesn't make the news.

Your statement is correct yet shallow and without true inward thought.

There is billions of good things going on all around us now.

Cute things like- Little Timmy Jones stole a pie, that was cooling, out
of Mrs. Smiths pantry window today.Noone got shot and Mrs' Smith laughed about to no end-.

You will never see that in the Paper or CNN.

Evil seems to stand out above good but good is the prevailing wind
that allways cruises by and is there, it just isn't looking for Press.

Yes/No.?

[Hardrock69]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
They should replace the cross on the top of your superstition misinformation centres with a big rolleyes smiley...:)


Good call!

"Superstition Misinformation Centres".

LMFAO!!!
:D

[Nickdfresh]

Well, I'm gonna be enjoying a little summer vacation without pondering this stuff.

As James Joyce wrote in "Ulysses," "God is in the voices in the streets." And it's as simple as that. That's my religion.

"Good night and good luck."
http://www.born-today.com/Today/pix/murrow_e.jpg

[jcook11]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Organized Religion.

or Cult.

Sorry, but I still can't quite figure out the subtle differences.


Same goes for Islamic Fundamentalists and Christian Fundamentalists.

What's the difference other than the uniform?


Why do all religions claim if you follow THEIR teachings you will be rewarded eternal happiness, and if you DON'T you'll burn in hell?

Is a Christian theif and murderer a better person than the honest and peace loving Muslim? Really? Why?


I seriously wish some of you zealots in here would/could take a step back and see just how similar your views are to those you vilify.


And since you always seem to fall back on the "it's God's Plan" tact, instead of free will and/or cause & effect logic.....then how do you come to grips with the fact your God kills good people, including children, for no good reason.


I don't actually expect any cult members to defend anything in this thread, It's just my way of getting things out there for discusssion.

I like reading the views of other fence-sitting skeptics such as Sesh.

So I take it you won't be joining my new cul...church of jcook11 of latter day saints anytime soon? :D

[FORD]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh


As James Joyce wrote in "Ulysses," "God is in the voices in the streets."

Which proves that Chimp definitely isn't listening to Him.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
So in YOUR mind........skepticism equals fear?

:confused:

Where do you get this shit?


Follow blindly.

Don't ask questions.

Don't think for yourself.



I do think it's funny how FEAR is your guys' favorite button.:rolleyes:



More violent death and hatred is caused in the name of religion than anything else.

I guess I do fear you guys. You all want to kill those who don't think and believe as you do.

So much for "Love thy Neighbor" :rolleyes:

Hmmmm, ya see, Lounge, i don't understand your point of view.
Following blindly
Not asking questions
Thinking for yourself

Thes are NOT things that God commands from us, modern religious MAN does that.
Therefore YOU and I have been guilty of shooting the messenger because he's an evil fucktard who has sights set on our wallets.

This is exactly what i mean when i say that the word "Christian" is an extremely broad brush used to describe anyone who believes in God.
But i am here to tell you that not everyone believes in the bastardized version the church is promoting.

I totally believe in God, what i don't believe in is MAN, the heart of all man is inherently evil.

Just like you should question your government you must also question those in power in any church.
Bush claimed to be a child of God, his inability to set that example opened my eyes. hey, a tree is judged by its fruit, if there is no fruit then we must instantly call that tree fruitless.

Jesus said we would know true prophets (and likewise their prophesies) by their fruit (Mat. 7:15-20).
If their message is leading people away from God and into bondage, we should not hold fast their words. However, we need to apply wisdom when inspecting the fruit. Even good fruit can go bad, and i know this all too well being as it is just me and my daughter here at home, lol.

There were some people who took Paul's message and twisted it to say that he had given them freedom to live a sinful life (Rom. 3:8). That wasn't so, and isolated incidents are not justification for discrediting all "Christians". But the dominant fruit which a christian produces is a valid way of proving or judging that particular christian.

The believers in Berea also gave us a good example of how to prove all things.
In Acts 17:11 the scripture says, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
The ultimate test of any prophet, or prophecy, is whether or not it lines up with the written Word of God. If anything violates the letter or spirit of the Word, it is wrong.
Yet again, there needs to be some maturity on our part to make a judgment like this. No one has the whole truth (1 Cor. 13:12).
Anyone can and does make mistakes.
Yet there should be an overall scriptural soundness in the doctrine.

Those who blatantly violate scripture should not be judged as good. and at that same token, not all christians should be judged as bad.
ANYONE who uses fear to manipulate anyone is not of God, and those who act in the manner you just mentioned is deserving of your judgement according to what Paul wrote in Thessalonians 5:21.

Basically, you are spot on, brother.
You just need a finer tipped brush that doesn't go outside of the lines, lol.

Ok, for instance, If i were to put on a cops uniform and go on a killing spree the moment it was aired across the nation on the evening news people would look at ALL cops differently, right?

Well, the fact is that i'm not a cop at all BUT, i will have effectively destroyed people's confidence in cops in general wouldn't i?

That is, until someone discovered the TRUTH... ;)

[ELVIS]

That is one awesome post, Cat...

But...

He is NOT spot on, and you know it brother...

People like LoungeMachine haven't the slightest inkling of what real Christianity is...


:elvis:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Which proves that Chimp definitely isn't listening to Him.

Oh he hears voices alright, but they are of mortal man, and a woman.
He's no more the CHOSEN ONE than I am.

Since the first time he was caught on mic levying insults with vulgarity I knew he was full of shit.

My mother, God love her, will defend his calling to the office to her dying breath.
Once people allow themselves to be sucked into believing false doctrines they develope mental illness that you cannot extinguish with the Word.
They get angry and lash out at you as though YOU are the vile one sent to attack them.

But, in the same breath they will tell you that it isn't you; it is the Devil within you.

The scary part is that they actually believe what they are saying without ever proving it by testing it against the Word of God.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
That is one awesome post, Cat...

But...

He is NOT spot on, and you know it brother...

People like LoungeMachine haven't the slightest inkling of what real Christianity is...


:elvis:


Yes I do.

You're just embarassed because you have many of the same weaknesses, faults, and traits of those I question.

And you know it.


Cat is agreeing with my view, just wants the arrow's point sharpened.

You may not be as bad as a Benny Hinn, but you're also not the "Christian" you claim to be in here.

When pushed, you're just as bad those you look down upon.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Hmmmm, ya see, Lounge, i don't understand your point of view.
Following blindly
Not asking questions
Thinking for yourself

Thes are NOT things that God commands from us, modern religious MAN does that.



That is exactly my point, Cat.

It's NOT with the FAITH

It's NOT with the MESSAGE

It's with the fake, hypocritical "believers" who resemble LITTLE of Christ's teachings.

And one look no further than this forum to see blatant examples :elvis:


Peace be with you.:cool:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by ELVIS
That is one awesome post, Cat...

But...

He is NOT spot on, and you know it brother...

People like LoungeMachine haven't the slightest inkling of what real Christianity is...


:elvis:

In all fairness, Elvis, neither do you or I.

He IS spot on to apply his judgement to those running our government because they are tree's that bear NO fruit. and Bush built support for his campaign based on promising fruit.
And i've been watching since 2000, so i agree with him on that.
Where i think he is off base is applying that judgement to everyone who claims to be a believer.

People have been so misled by the church that i don't blame anyone for not having the slightest inkling what christianity is.

I've studied Thessalonians, over and over because i have been told by my pastor that we are NEVER to question God.
But, he didn't answer my question and did not understand the point i was making. He wanted me to just accept what he said and fall back in line, which the Word does not support.
I told him that I wasn't questioning God, I was questioning those who have prophecied to me IN THE NAME of God.

His follow up was that I just needed to pray about it and that he understood my confusion and troubled soul because i had just lost my wife...what a crock.

Losing Toni had nothing to do with it. her suffering is over now, and i've made peace with that fact. but he drew me to tears by bringing it up.

And even more, he suddenly changed his message tonight from his 'planned' sermon to one that spoke of how Pastors aren't perfect and sometimes fall down. it was about how he hopes the church would forgive him in that instance...but it is all about the overall fruit and i don't care how many millions our church pours into community outreach programs. Is his ministry in line with the Word? THAT'S the question. And i don't see any fruit after 2 years.

I think i scared him a bit so it appeared to me that he set the congregation up to forgive him should any trouble arise.

The man cries without tears, he floats through the weeping people like in a scene of Jesus in The Passion of The Christ.
It's a great show, but he doesn't speak from the bible, he speaks of it.

Know what i mean?

The closest i've ever found to what i think i'm looking for is a small local baptist church where i'm moving too in Kentucky.
They read directly from the book and leave the analogies and ficticious examples to creative fiction writers.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Cathedral



Where i think he is off base is applying that judgement to everyone who claims to be a believer.

.

I sincerely apologize if that is how I came off.

I don't fault the true believers as much as I fault the hypocrites who pick and choose WHICH teachings they follow, and when.


And also the actions they perform while invoking His name.

And no amount of bake sales make up for hatred, bigotry, and malice in the name of ANY religion.........in my opinion.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
Yes I do.

You're just embarassed because you have many of the same weaknesses, faults, and traits of those I question.

And you know it.


Cat is agreeing with my view, just wants the arrow's point sharpened.

You may not be as bad as a Benny Hinn, but you're also not the "Christian" you claim to be in here.

When pushed, you're just as bad those you look down upon.

What I want is irrelevent, Lounge.
If i am to be judged by the example I set around here i'm in the same boat as those i question.

I just found something awhile back that tells me that i should be asking questions to prove all things before I take it to heart.

[ELVIS]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...:MEGAFUCKINGROLLEYES:

[ELVIS]

Not you, Cat...;)

[FORD]

True Christianity means "to be like Christ".

How do you be like Christ? You live by His teachings and follow His example.

That's the standard I go by, including for myself. Some days, I do a lot better than others.

But there are obviously those who claim to be Christians who make no attempts whatsoever to live by His teachings. Some of them live by exactly the opposite, with deception and greed being their "values". I don't need to mention any names here, because the examples are there every time you turn on your TV or pick up a paper.

The marketing slogan "What Would Jesus Do" was a great idea in principle, but a lot of the people who bought the T-shirts and bumper stickers with that slogan on it really didn't know how to answer the question, because their churches never told them what Jesus would do to begin with. :(

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Yeah, yeah, yeah...:MEGAFUCKINGROLLEYES:



Much as I'd expect.

Really.


When push comes to shove, E. You're all hat and no cattle.


megadittos indeed :rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by FORD
The marketing slogan "What Would Jesus Do" was a great idea in principle, but a lot of the people who bought the T-shirts and bumper stickers with that slogan on it really didn't know how to answer the question, because their churches never told them what Jesus would do to begin with. :(

Jesus was a bleeding-heart Liberal, that's for damn sure :cool:

[Redballjets88]

Is a Christian theif and murderer a better person than the honest and peace loving Muslim? Really? Why?

a true christian would never steal or murder..... and if theydid they would not be truly a saved soul

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Cathedral

Know what i mean?

Yes i do, and I've suggested in the past that you should seek out a different church...

The closest i've ever found to what i think i'm looking for is a small local baptist church where i'm moving too in Kentucky.

Well, I would strongly suggest that you check it out, as I am sure you will...

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by thome

Cute things like- Little Timmy Jones stole a pie, that was cooling, out
of Mrs. Smiths pantry window today.Noone got shot and Mrs' Smith laughed about to no end-.




What the HELL is that ??

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
a true christian would never steal or murder..... and if theydid they would not be truly a saved soul

And what are you basing this on?

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
What the HELL is that ??


Hey, he's one of your's


You figure it out. :rolleyes:

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by LoungeMachine
I sincerely apologize if that is how I came off.

I don't fault the true believers as much as I fault the hypocrites who pick and choose WHICH teachings they follow, and when.


And also the actions they perform while invoking His name.

And no amount of bake sales make up for hatred, bigotry, and malice in the name of ANY religion.........in my opinion.

No apologies needed in my direction, i have a pretty good idea of where you stand just from your posts. you're in the middle of the road like most of us.

The bigger problem is that most of the pastors, preachers, rabbi's and reverends walking this earth are false in what their message is.
They bear absolutely no fruit while claiming to be fruitfull.

I see nobody in politics that is doing God's work, including President Bush.
Yet we are to render to Ceasar what is his, so it is to Bush as well.

The reality of it all is that we are powerless to change a thing. especially if elections are rigged and the corrupt have all the governmental power.
It falls on God to have the last word on all matters of the flesh whether we like it or not, or agree with it or not.

Someone once told me that if someone looks to you for the answers you had better be right. just remember that once you get that answer you had better put it to the test before you cling to it as the scripture.

I'm trying to do that and it in no way questions God or his Word.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
a true christian would never steal or murder..... and if theydid they would not be truly a saved soul

So then you admit that Chimpy is not a Christian?

[Redballjets88]

i dont think he has killed anyone....he just has extremely poor judgement, and i cant be the one to say who is and isnt thats gods job


FORD as a christian would you not say that if a "christian" killed some one that they probably were never really a christian, but just someone that claimed it as a religion but really was just a hoax


Originally posted by LoungeMachine
And what are you basing this on?



mostly on common sense, oh yeah and this book called a bible

[FORD]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont think he has killed anyone....he just has extremely poor judgement, and i cant be the one to say who is and isnt thats gods job


FORD as a christian would you not say that if a "christian" killed some one that they probably were never really a christian, but just someone that claimed it as a religion but really was just a hoax


Yes. That's why I know Chimpy is not a Christian. Hundreds of thousands of people are dead because of his lies and criminal actions. Mass murder isn't exactly the best way of emulating Jesus Christ.

[Redballjets88]

ok well i guess according to your view of him he wouldnt be christian

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
i dont think he has killed anyone....he just has extremely poor judgement, and i cant be the one to say who is and isnt thats gods job


FORD as a christian would you not say that if a "christian" killed some one that they probably were never really a christian, but just someone that claimed it as a religion but really was just a hoax





mostly on common sense, oh yeah and this book called a bible

Hmmmmmm, I gotta disagree with you here. I think Bush has a lot of blood on his hands, actually.
Unfortunately, that is something that comes with the job running any government, empire, kingdom, etc.

What i don't believe is that any true God fearing believer would ever hold such a position.
Which helps me understand why there aren't any politicians who live by the teachings of Christ in Washington.

They all say, God Bless America, then they turn around and allow his influence in our nation to get stripped away.
Look at public schools?
Since prayer was removed from the classroom they have declined into a pool of social immorality.
The only way to prove that to people is to see what happens by re-installling that practice.

And by the way, Jesus was not seen as a Liberal, he was seen as an Extremist.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral

And by the way, Jesus was not seen as a Liberal, he was seen as an Extremist.

But only by the Pharisees, who were the neo-cons of their time.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
ok well i guess according to your view of him he wouldnt be christian

What i did was apply Thessalonians 5:21 to Bush after he gave me doubts about his character. His actions Behind The Scenes are the trigger most people ignored that i couldn't.

Bush can be a christian, that is just a word. the question is, is he a true believer of THE Word?

If you put him (the man) to the test the answer is a resounding, NO!

I tell ya, that one scripture has helped me to put a lot of things into perspective and end my sheepish practice of following right along.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
But only by the Pharisees, who were the neo-cons of their time.

He was also a Blasphemer to them.
I truly believe Jesus was non-political, as in he would never have held a position in the government.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
He was also a Blasphemer to them.
I truly believe Jesus was non-political, as in he would never have held a position in the government.

No, that's the next trip down to Earth. That's why a lot of the Jews were confused about the whole Messiah thing. They were expecting someone to take David's throne immediately.