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POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:11 PM
Okay...I've seen Superman Returns, and rewatched Superman: The Movie...the Extended Director's cut...

so now it's time to throw down some news from Donner's new cut of the movie he should have been able to complete, but wasn't so that they could exclude paying Brando...

imagine that...

anyways...here's Wikipedia's take on it...

and anything else that you all want to add...

I'm looking forward to this...when you watch the documentary's from Supe 1, and realize the time and effort that Donner put into this film...which were generally 20 hour days for 2 years...

and realize that he had 75% of Supe 2 done...that Lester literally HAD to delete at least 26% of so that he would get the credit for...

what it comes down to is that 30% of that film...Supe 2, was Donner footage...

which means we're going to get an entirely new film...from the start...

mostly with original footage...Hackman added footage (that was deleted)...and more importantly...a ton of Brando footage...including the cuts in which Supe's mom was added to take his place in the fortress scenes...

a brand new start that will get rid of 2 of the scenes in the movie that I despise (the eiffel tower scene, and the scene at the Falls where Lois jumps in the water)...

anyways...here we go...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:12 PM
Okay...here's why Donner was "fired."

In 1977, director Richard Donner set about simultaneously filming an epic two part adaptation of the Superman comic book series. With approximately 75% of Superman II in the can, and after significantly going over budget and over schedule on both movies, it was decided that filming on Superman II would be suspended, and that Donner would focus on completing the first film, Superman: The Movie. Following the release of Superman: The Movie in 1978, it was widely assumed that Donner would be re-called to complete the remaining 25% of the film. However, a number of events led to Donner’s eventual replacement as director of the movie. Most importantly, the producers (Alexander and Ilya Salkind) announced that Marlon Brando’s completed scenes for Superman II would be excised from the movie in order to prevent them having to pay the actor an additional several million dollars he was now demanding for his performance in the sequel. Donner publicly lambasted this decision, announcing that he would make the film his way or not at all. The April 1978 issue of the sci-fi magazine Starburst quotes Donner as saying "That means no games...They have to want me to do it. It has to be on my terms and I don't mean financially. I mean control."

Tensions had existed between the Salkinds, and Richard Donner throughout the almost nineteen months of filming it had taken to complete Superman: The Movie. As the situation came to a head during the hiatus, the Salkinds fired Donner and replaced him with UK-based director Richard Lester. Lester had served as mediator between the Salkinds and Donner for a large part of the initial shoot. Suspicions abound at the time that Lester was being primed for taking over the film, despite Donner’s determination to complete the project at all costs and Lester’s assurances to the contrary. Donner's sacking caused a near mutiny amongst the main cast, who had all enjoyed a close relationship with the director. The April 1981 issue of Time Out magazine quotes Christopher Reeve as saying "I think it’s appalling when you cut out a major actor like Brando so you don’t have to pay him the gross...In my view the way "Superman II" was produced is the lowest you can go without actually cheating."

Lester’s main task in completing Superman II was to film cheaply and quickly and to avoid further budget or scheduling overruns. According to many of the cast and crew, this entailed a noticable drop in the quality of film-making. In June 2006, Lois Lane actress Margot Kidder told the magazine Hotdog "There were two or three cameras at once (a process synonymous with filming sit-coms)and lighting that was quick (to set up)...it was just fast and loose as opposed to the care and love that was in the first Superman." Zod actor Terence Stamp appeared to agree, telling Famous Monsters magazine in 1980 "Part two lost something as far as I was concerned...the film became a more ordinary experience...unlike the first part which had been extraordinary."

The situation was further complicated by the deaths of cinematographer Geoffrey Unsworth and production designer John Barry during the hiatus in filming. In order to earn a directorial credit on the film, when Richard Lester assumed the reigns, Superman II had to contain at least 51% of his footage. This meant that large portions of the film were subsequently re-written and re-shot by Lester, with much of Donner’s filmed Superman II footage excised to oblivion. Tom Mankiewicz, a key Donner ally who had re-written both Superman scripts to comply with Donner’s directive to make the features more realistic and less camp, was also removed from the project. His Superman II script was then re-written by David and Leslie Newman, authors of the earlier, purportedly “campier” drafts. This, in addition to Lester’s more comically oriented sense of direction led to a Superman II that although a huge box office and critical success, was condemned by Donner as camp and severely flawed. In 1989, Donner told Starlog magazine "Let me put it this way...all the good parts of "Superman II" are mine."

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:13 PM
Here are the shots from the film that are Donner's...and not Lesters...

The version of Superman II that was released combined Donner footage shot in 1977 with Lester footage shot in 1979. Approximately 30% of Lester’s Superman II is Richard Donner footage. Much of this interweaving was caused by Lex Luthor actor Gene Hackman’s refusal to return to film any further scenes with Lester. Hackman, along with many of the Superman cast were publicly disgusted by Donner’s removal. Thus, all Hackman footage in the film is Donner’s although in certain scenes, a body double was used for wide shots. The following is a list of all major Donner footage in Superman II:

Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

Lex Luthor in prison, including the escape by balloon.
The three super-villains land on the moon and attack the astronauts.
Lex Luthor at the Fortress of Solitude (Although shots of Superman’s mother were filmed by Lester. The scene was originally to feature Brando as Jor-El).
The three super-villains attack the White House and force the president to kneel before Zod.
A powerless Clark is beat up by a bully in a fast-food diner.
Lex Luthor visits the super-villains in the White House.
The villains burst into the Daily Planet and chase after Superman (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
The villains return to the Planet and decide to go to Superman’s polar fortress (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
The second part of the final scene at the Fortress of Solitude, beginning with Luthor’s belated arrival (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
Clark returns to the diner and gets his revenge on the bully.

Spoilers end here.

The rest of the film, including the opening scenes at the Eiffel Tower, the scenes at Niagara Falls, the scenes of the super-villains in Midwest America and the battle in Metropolis were all shot by Lester. Several television stations have broadcast extended cuts over the years. These have largely featured additional Donner material including footage of Superman destroying the Fortress of Solitude at the conclusion of the film, as well as extra scenes between Lois and Superman.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:14 PM
Okay...here are the controversies of Supe 2, along with a major hole that was there because of some of the Brando cuts...

Critics of Lester’s Superman II, including Donner, have stated that Lester’s penchant for comedy undermined the integrity of the film, especially when compared to Donner’s Superman: The Movie. Examples of this trademark comedy are evident during scenes which feature Superman fighting the super-villains in Metropolis. The villains attack the citizens of Metropolis using super breath. Several comedic scenes follow, including the wind blowing off a man’s toupee, the ice cream being blown off of a cone and into someone's face, a man being blown over in a telephone booth and laughing the whole time and a man on roller-skates rolling across the pavement. Specifically, Donner has also criticized the scenes featuring the confrontation between the military and the super-villains in Idaho, telling Starlog magazine in 1989 "I hated the stuff they did with the villains in the small town. It looked like an Englishman's point-of-view of what America would look like, with the Army, the jeeps, the people...there was no sense of size to it. It lost its sense of importance." Despite this, critics have noted that Superman II remains a remarkably coherent and entertaining film, and Lester’s direction of the love relationship between Lois Lane and Superman, was applauded by critics who stated that they had not seen this side of Richard Lester’s direction prior to this. In 1981, Christopher Reeve told Time Out magazine"Part of the reason that Superman II is such a good movie is due to Lester’s enormous skill as a director. If it hadn’t been for that and the major legacy left by Donner and his footage...it would have been a joke."

However, there was one gaping plot hole that has dogged fans over the years. This concerns a mysterious cut between a scene featuring a powerless Clark finding a green crystal at the Fortress of Solitude, and Superman’s return to the Daily Planet to fight Zod and the other two super-villains. The question of just how Superman regained his powers proved a vital catalyst for Superman fans, who were aware that a major scene featuring Marlon Brando as Jor-El, had been excised from the film, and not replaced with a convincing or coherent alternative.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:15 PM
Discussions about lost Donner footage have been raging for years, and with the advent of the internet, numerous letter writing and other campaigns were instigated to persuade Warner Bros. to allow Richard Donner to create his version of Superman II. A fan restored DVD featuring extended scenes shown in various television broadcasts over the years helped bring much publicity to the cause when Warner Bros. threatened legal action over the bootleg release. In early 2006, it was finally announced that a new version of Superman II was being worked on.

In a June 2006 interview with the website Amazon.com George Feltenstein, Senior Vice President of Warner Home Video's Catalog Marketing division stated "We have been getting for years and years and years letters begging us to release the Donner cut of Superman II, and this year we bit the bullet and we've created what is ostensibly a new film, although the footage is all footage that was shot years and years and years ago. But it was sitting in a lab and never assembled. And for those of us were very saddened and touched by the loss of Christopher Reeve - to see footage you've never seen of him before, and a whole different take on the Superman II story, is really thrilling. That's going to be coming out sometime around Christmas."

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:18 PM
Donner Cut...

Donner said he didn't have anything to do with this new version...which...turned out to be a lie...

When filming was suspended on Donner's Superman II in 1978, the director had completed almost all of the major character-based sequences in the film. All scenes in the Daily Planet and Fortress of Solitude were completed. All scenes featuring Marlon Brando, Ned Beatty and Gene Hackman were also completed. What remained to be filmed was the villains arrival on Earth, and their rampage through mid-west America as well as exteriors at Washington D.C. during which Zod announces his takeover of the Earth from the tip of the Washington Monument. Most of the battle scenes between Superman and the super-villains had yet to be shot, as well as both the interiors and exteriors at Niagara Falls. Several minor scenes including a love-struck Superman deliberately tilting over the Leaning Tower of Pisa (later adapted in Superman III) and a scene in which Superman warns off some English fox-hunters were also not filmed.

Mixed emotions invariably followed the announcement in January 2006 that a new Superman II was being worked on. This was primarily down to comments made by Richard Donner that suggested that he was having little or nothing to do with the re-edit. In a January 2006 interview with the website IGN, he stated "They're doing it. I'm not doing it...I don't even want to see it until it comes out in the theater...I'm too far away from it now."

However, it appears that these comments may have been made for tactical reasons possibly to do with negotiating a fee from Warners. In June 2006, restorationist Michael Thau finally confirmed the extent of Donner's involvment in the project. In an interview with the magazine Movie Magic, he stated "When I’d get a cut on a scene, I’d show it to Dick and he’d say, 'I don’t like that line; that reading’s not good' and so on. With Dick it’s always, 'Make it move faster.'"

On May 18th 2006, the website Supermanhomepage.com revealed that Warner Bros. had held interviews for a Christopher Reeve body- double, presumably to be used in wide-shots for new special effects sequences.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:19 PM
Here are some of the new scenes...I can't wait to see the new beginning...which is much better than the scene that was added to the falls to replace it...

The new film will feature a number of never-before-seen scenes, which will replace scenes re-filmed by Richard Lester. These include the original opening of the film set in the offices of the Daily Planet. Thus far, this is the major only part of the new version of Superman II to have been screened publically - forming part of Warners' January 2006 press announcement that Donner's re-cut was underway. At that time, the website Movieweb.com reported "...the lights we're dimmed and we were treated to Donner's original opening of Superman II...Lois Lane is reading an article on Superman. She sees Clark Kent across the room, who is standing with his arms folded, and she realizes that the two look quite similar. After drawing a hat, glasses and a suit on Superman, she and Clark are summoned into Perry White's office and informed of an assignment they will work on together in Niagara Falls. Perry soon leaves the room and Lois begins dropping hints to Clark that she thinks he's Superman. Clark of course denies this and Lois, believing he is lying, throws herself out the window. As she is tumbling in the air, Clark makes his way down to the street below. Using his "wind blowing" powers he slows up Lois's descent, and then makes an awning drop (courtesy of his "laser-like" eye power) so that Lois's fall is eventually broken by a fruit stand. Even with a temporary score and titles like "Work Test" cut into this piece, it still very much captured the spirit of what a Richard Donner cut of Superman II might have in store." This scene was also presented to viewers during the San Diego ComicCon on 21st July (attended by both Donner and Thau), along with a preview of the recut reprise of the first film that opens Superman II (see below).

Aside from these major scenes, the film will also feature new scenes between Lois and Clark at the Fortress of Solitude, several restored scenes which were truncated by Richard Lester and also several new special effects sequences.

Jack68
07-23-2006, 07:20 PM
Interesting,nice read.christopher reeve is superman.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:20 PM
Now 1 at a time...here is speculation on what's going to be added...taken out...and not messed with...

and there is a lot...

a better beginning that directly connects the first movie to the second...

Superman: The Movie reprise. This will now almost certainly feature a clip of Superman hurling the nuclear rocket into space from the end of the first film. Jor-el, excised from Lester’s reprise, will be restored. Lester’s insert showing the three super-villain’s arrest on Krypton will almost certainly be deleted.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:21 PM
The super-villains are freed from the Phantom Zone by the nuclear rocket. A combination of Lester footage and new effects.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:22 PM
Superman interferes with a fox hunt. This was never filmed by Donner and it is likely that this sequence will simply be scrapped.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:23 PM
There are a few of these good tidbits...where Lester didn't use a piece of Donner's ideas in 2...only to use them in 3...

Exterior Daily Planet. Superman swoops into a taxi and emerges as Clark Kent (another scene later adapted for Superman III). This scene may not have been filmed by Donner and may either be scrapped or created digitally.

this will also continue to get rid of 3 and 4 from memory...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:24 PM
Interior Daily Planet. Major new footage Lois jumps out of the window to prove that Clark is Superman. This sequence was filmed by Donner and will most likely only require a few additional effects of Clark zooming through the Daily Planet and using his super-breath to break Lois’s fall. Lester’s opening at the Daily Planet and Eiffel Tower will be deleted.

This is that start that was mentioned from before...this is confirmed to be the new beginning of the film...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:25 PM
Luthor and Otis in prison. This Donner scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:26 PM
The super-villains land on the moon and attack the astronauts. This Donner scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited. Footage of Houston control (unknown whether Donner or Lester footage) will also remain.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:26 PM
Luthor’s escape from prison by balloon. This Donner footage featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:27 PM
Niagara Falls establishing shots. Lester/stock footage will be used here.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:28 PM
Niagara Falls interiors – the honeymoon couple arrive at the bungalow. A scripted scene in which Lois teases Clark to kiss her was never filmed by Donner. It is likely that Lester’s re-scripted scene, which has some similar dialogue – Lois: “...everything’s complimentary – until you get the bill.” will be used here.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:30 PM
Here's a scene that will connect 1 to 2 to 3...we'll get Kevin Spacey a bit more in the third movie...

and bring Brando back...

Luthor and Eve arrive at the Fortress of Solitude. Major new footage Lester’s footage of Superman’s mother and the Kryptonian elders will be removed from this Donner scene. Instead, Brando’s Jor-el will now inform Luthor of the existence of the super-villains. This scene will also most likely be extended to feature new sequences of Luthor and Eve’s arrival at the fortress, with extended dialogue throughout the sequence.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:31 PM
Niagara Falls exteriors. Clark gets a hot-dog. Superman rescues a small boy. Donner never filmed these scenes, so Lester’s footage (largely similar to original script) will certainly be used here. However, Lois’s later deliberate jump into the river (to prove that Clark is Superman) will certainly be edited out (Lester footage), as this would now be a redundant duplicate of Lois’s earlier efforts at the Daily Planet.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:37 PM
Exteriors. Luthor and Eve head back south in the Snowmobile, whilst Luthor plots and schemes. It is unclear whether this scene was filmed by Donner. Lester’s scenes featuring body doubles and voice-overs may be used here.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:38 PM
This should be interesting...because the Screen shots I've seen were very rough...

and Reeves and Kidder's hair were vastly different...

but...computer age...eh?

Niagara Falls bungalow interiors. Lois fires gun at Clark who is forced to reveal his true identity, just before Lois admits she used a blank. This scene was never filmed by Donner. However, it has been confirmed that the original Reeve and Kidder screen tests, which played out this scene, will be edited together and will feature here. Lester’s sequence featuring Clark burning his hand in the fireplace will be scrapped, though some shots, including Clark’s “Now that you know, I think you should know it all.” may be inserted into the scene.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:40 PM
Fortress of Solitude interiors. Major new footage Lois and Clark kiss for the first time. This scene was filmed by Donner. All of Lester’s fortress sequences from Superman II will be completely scrapped.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:47 PM
A love-struck Superman does cartwheels in the air and deliberately straightens out the Leaning Tower of Pisa. These sequences were not filmed by Donner. Lester footage from Superman III could be used here. However, due to the way that Christopher Reeve ultimately portrayed Superman, these sequences may appear out of character, and will therefore probably be scrapped. Lester’s footage showing Superman picking a flower from a rainforest will probably be deleted.

ahh...yes...another Supe 3 deal. I can't see them redoing this one...since the "evil Supe" did the deed in III...but again...computer...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:48 PM
Fortress of Solitude Interiors. Major new footage Superman and Lois make a soufflé. This scene was filmed by Donner. (This scene was also re-filmed by Lester, but deleted from the final cut of his Superman II).

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 07:50 PM
Lester’s scene featuring Zod landing in a lake and walking on water may be scrapped. The villains arrive in Midwest America and meet the rangers. Donner never filmed this scene, thus Lester footage will likely be used here. The scene will probably be edited differently from the original. In Lester’s version, part of the dialogue intended for this scene was transferred to the army general in the small town. It is unclear how this will be addressed.

I do think these are the scenes that Donner really wanted to change...but can't because there's no footage...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:01 PM
Fortress of Solitude interiors. Major new footage Superman explains his origins to Lois. Lois and Superman make love for the first time.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:02 PM
Major new effects footage? The original script features Zod at the Washington monument proclaiming his takeover of the earth. The dialogue is similar to that spoken by Zod in Lester’s version in the small town (“...your very lives will be given over to me...”). Computer technology may help to transfer this footage. Otherwise, most of Lester’s footage of the villains in the small town (including the bar fight sequences, Zod levitating a boy’s father and the military attack on the super-villains) will almost certainly be scrapped. Additional scripted scenes featuring the destruction of the Kremlin, Eiffel Tower and Mount Rushmore (the latter possibly filmed by Donner) may be constructed with new effects footage.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:03 PM
Fortress of Solitude Interiors. Major new footage Jor-el warns Superman of the dangers of falling in love. Superman gives up his powers and becomes a mortal. Lester’s re-shoot of this scene will be scrapped entirely.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:05 PM
The villains attack the White House and force the president to kneel before Zod. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be substantially re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:06 PM
Exteriors. Lois and Clark drive towards the diner. In Lester’s version, this scene featured Donner’s footage of the remote controlled car crashed by Lex Luthor in Superman: The Movie, combined with new voice-over dialogue. Since this scene was never filmed by Donner, it will likely play the same way.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:09 PM
Clark is beaten up inside the diner and hears the president relinquish his powers to Zod. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:11 PM
Luthor visits the villains inside the White House and offers them the son of Jor-el. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited and may include new effects footage.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:12 PM
This is the major deletion IMO...

Kent goes back to get his powers...and comes back with them...we never know how he gets them...

until this...

and could be tough to watch...

A bruised Clark arrives at the Fortress of Solitude and screams for his father. Jor-el appears and dies to restore his son’s powers. Major new footage Lester’s partial re-shoot of this scene will be scrapped. An earlier Lester scene showing Clark trying to hitch-hike to the North poll will possibly be deleted.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:13 PM
Daily Planet interiors. Lois, Perry and Jimmy wait for Superman. The villains burst into the Daily Planet and Superman finally appears. These Donner scenes featured in Lester’s Superman II, though certain shots were re-filmed by Lester. Thus, this sequence will likely be substantially re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:14 PM
These are the Lester scenes that I thought were ridiculous the first time I saw them...way back in the day...still have the Supe 2 movie book from it...

Superman and the super-villains fight in Metropolis. Superman flees the city. Most of these scenes were never filmed by Donner. The new cut will combine Lester footage (re-edited to remove slapstick sight-gags), original Donner footage and new special-effects sequences. Lester scenes featuring Lois leaning out of the office window with a rather insensitive female co-worker will certainly be scrapped.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:15 PM
The super-villains return to the Daily Planet. Luthor offers them Superman’s home address. These Donner scenes featured in Lester’s Superman II, though certain shots were re-filmed by Lester. Thus, this sequence will likely be re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:16 PM
The villains head north with Lois and Luthor on their backs. It is likely that Lester’s footage featuring a body-double for Lex Luthor will feature here as in Lester’s Superman II.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:18 PM
I've seen these scenes....nothing great...but I guarantee that there will more than likely be some added special effects here...

but wouldn't explain how Luthor got in so easy in 2 and in Returns...

The group arrives at the Fortress of Solitude. The super-villains break through its defenses. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:18 PM
Superman tries to lull Zod into the 'de-powering' chamber. The villains threaten to tear Lois apart. Major new footage This scene was filmed by Donner. Lester sequences featuring Superman throwing a giant “S” at Zod as well as the villains and Superman playing a cat and mouse disappearing act will be scrapped.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:20 PM
Superman tricks the villains into losing their powers. Superman crushes Zod’s hand. Lester’s Superman II, contained this Donner footage. Will be slightly-re-edited to remove Lester inserts (Lois Lane has noticeably different hair and make-up in the Lester re-shoots).

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:21 PM
Luthor and the super-villains are taken away by the arctic patrol. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:22 PM
Superman destroys the Fortress of Solitude. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts. New effects will likely be created.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:23 PM
Outside the Fortress, Lois and Superman agree to end their relationship. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts, but will certainly be trimmed and re-edited.

FORD
07-23-2006, 08:27 PM
Was anything else added to the first movie that wasn't in the theatrical release?

I hope they release Superman II as a 2 disc set with both the Donner and the Lester versions.

Donner's version might well be superior, but that's what George Lucas said about his "new" versions of the original Star Wars trilogy, and eventually he had to cave and release the original versions on DVD (or will in September)

I haven't seen ANY version of Superman II in years, so I'd like to see both versions and make up my own mind.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:27 PM
Superman takes a weeping Lois home. This flying sequence may never have been filmed.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:29 PM
For FORD...

I'm getting to it FORD...yeah...the first one had some shit added to it...nothing big...because Donner worked on the entire film...and like I said...put in 20 hour days for the most part...he worked on both films almost the entire time...until they ran out of money...then scrapped working on 2 entirely...with it nearly finished (the filming parts anyways...)

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:31 PM
Lois’ roof-terrace. Superman says a final goodbye to Lois. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts, but will certainly be slightly re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:37 PM
Superman turns back time to avoid the devastation of the planet caused by the super-villains. This sequence may be scrapped entirely in the new cut. Certain scenes that were filmed by Donner for this sequence are thus likely to be put in a deleted scenes section on the DVD release.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:41 PM
Daily Planet interiors. Major new footage?? Lois has a feeling she may have missed something. Clark gets Lois a pizza. This scene was filmed by Donner, although if the above sequence is scrapped Lester’s “super-kiss” sequence (otherwise very similar to the original scripted scene) may be used instead.

I would rather they edited this...I don't like the "super-kiss."

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:42 PM
Daily Planet interiors. Clark bumps into Jimmy, then into a rude man, reminding him of unfinished business. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:45 PM
Clark gets his revenge on the bully in the diner. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:46 PM
Superman repairs the damage done to the leaning tower of Pisa. This sequence, never filmed by Donner, may be scrapped. Lester footage of Superman apologizing to the president will also likely be deleted.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:48 PM
The confirmed "new" scenes

On July 21, 2006, the syndicated show Access Hollywood aired three "new" scenes that are confirmed to be in the new Donner cut:

During the Metropolis battle, Superman is hurled into the flame of the Statue of Liberty, setting it ablaze.

An alternate scene taking place during the same climactic battle of Non crashing into the Empire State Building.

The aforementioned scene where Lois jumps out of a window of the Daily Planet to prove Clark is Superman.

On that same day, at the San Diego ComicCon convention, a fifteen-minute preview reel was screened which included the "Lois jumps" sequence and the following scene which too will also be shown in the Donner cut:

The original opening sequence with the second missile (which Superman flung into space towards the end of Superman I) exploding into space, setting free the Kryptonian villains (when Richard Lester became director, the Paris subplot replaced this scene as a way to get the villains out of the Phantom Zone).

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:51 PM
In a recent interview with the British magazine Hotdog, restorationist Michael Thau confirmed that the new cut will feature less than 25% Richard Lester footage, and that this footage would be edited to reflect Donner’s vision of the film, specifically to remove many of Lester’s trademark sight-gags, which Thau stated “undercut the tension” of the film.

The project remains cloaked in a veil of secrecy and several key issues remain the subject of much speculation. Foremost amongst these is whether the film will be subjected to a new sound mix and new dialogue-looping (a process in which sound is re-dubbed in a sound studio). Many of the original scenes were never re-looped, and thus the soundtrack could potentially be of poor quality. Gene Hackman (whose original Superman II scenes were looped by a voice-double), Terence Stamp and other surviving Superman II stars could conceivably contribute new dialogue loops, but it remains unclear whether this will happen. Further, it has been noted that many Lester scenes feature poor quality audio looping, most famously during scenes which feature background extras (notably “Are you all right buddy?” spoken as a soldier emerges from a flaming car in Idaho as well as several other examples during the Metropolis fight scenes). Questions relating to how the new scenes will be scored musically also remain a mystery.

Another issue is whether Thau and Donner will only re-edit new Donner footage, rather than Donner footage featured in the original Lester version. Commentators have pointed out that Donner scenes in the Lester version, specifically scenes featuring the attack on the White House and scenes of the villains on the moon, were edited to reflect Lester’s rather than Donner’s film-making style and that these should also be re-edited in the new version. The original Superman: The Movie contained (and Superman II was to contain) a directorial style that combined long, intricate shots shot by Donner with the sharp editing style of editor Stuart Baird. However, it remains unclear whether Baird has been involved in this project.

Richard Donner has publicly conceded that his own film-making style has changed considerably over the years. In February 2006, when asked about the new Superman II cut, he told the website Dark Horizons "I would never shoot like that now in a million years, I mean it was a different way, a different style, different interpretation."

This has led to fears that this new version may well fail to capture the essence of the original 1977 shoot. Further, several fans were highly critical of Thau and Donner’s choices made during the restoration of the extended cut of Superman: The Movie in 2001. Specifically, they pointed to the apparently poor editing of a new scene featuring Superman’s father Jor-El talking with Superman, as well as several other apparently redundant additions including Superman’s earth mother repeatedly yelling “Clark, wake up!” at a young Clark early in the film.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:52 PM
There are also concerns that the narrative of the film may struggle to make sense. The main reason for this concerns the original scripted ending for Superman II, which featured Superman travelling back through time to avoid the wide-scale destruction of the Earth created by the super-villains. This idea was then lifted and used in Superman: The Movie instead. It remains unclear whether a new ending was conceived before Donner was fired. However, a scene was filmed by Donner, in which, at the end of the film Lois Lane tells Clark that she has a feeling that a big story might have happened, but that she feels she is missing it (i.e. it never happened because Superman reversed time). Further, Donner also filmed several scenes to be played backwards as Superman traveled back in time, including Perry White in the bathroom and his toothpaste squeezing back in to the tube. Thus, it is unclear how these scenes can or will be used in the new cut without the film repeating the story device used by the first film. Ultimately, Donner may favour using the "super-kiss" sequence filmed by Richard Lester in which Superman erases Lois’ memory.

Also, because the way that the film was re-scripted under Lester, continuity may prove a problem. The afformentioned opening scene at the Daily Planet, was naturally not alluded to in the Lester script. Thus when Lois and Clark walk along the banks of the Niagara Falls, (Donner never filmed this scene, so Lester footage will have to be used) there is naturally no mention of the fact that the last time we saw her Lois jumped out of the window of the Daily Planet because she thought Clark was Superman (In Lester's version she jumps into the river).

Another concern surrounding the restoration of any new Superman II, relates to a scene which was to have taken place in the bungalow in Niagara falls. Whereas in Lester’s version, Clark trips over a fire-place, and reveals his identity when he is not burnt despite retrieving his glasses from a burning fire, Donner’s version was to have played very differently. There was to be a scene in which Lois (far more intuitive and shrewd in Donner’s version) fires a gun at Clark, who admits he is Superman, just before Lois admitted she used a blank.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:54 PM
Despite statements to the contrary, it has now been confirmed that Donner never filmed this scene. However, it did form part of the original Reeve and Kidder screen-tests and these will now feature in the new cut. An earlier scripted scene in the bungalow (in which Lois teases Clark), was never filmed at all, and it is unclear how this has been addressed.

Another concern relates to the use of CGI (Computer Generated Imagery) to create new effects for the the Donner cut. The original effects sequences were created optically, and there have been concerns that new CGI effects may noticeably stand out in the film.

The very final scene in Tom Mankiewicz's Superman II script is an exact mirror of the conclusion of Superman III. Superman, no longer love-struck repairs the damage he initially did to the Leaning Tower of Pisa:

BACK TO SOUVENIR STAND

The SHOPKEEPER gapes. The Tower is now the Leaning Tower
again - all his wares are useless. Hysterical, he smashes
his shelves to the ground, makes violent obscene gestures
at the CAPED HERO above, weeping.

SHOPKEEPER
Cretino! Super, stronzo! ...
(and other expletives deleted)

EXT. SKY - DAY - CLOSE ON SUPERMAN

SUPERMAN flies majestically home, the setting sun behind
him, soaring toward the blue horizon, magnificent in his
power. Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a
locomotive, able to leap tall buildings at a single bound.
Look - up in the sky! Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No!
It's SUPERMAN!

THE END
It seems highely unlikely that the new Donner cut will incorporate this scene, as Donner would have to use material from Richard Lester's Superman III. Ultimately, the Richard Donner cut, rather than fully bringing to life Donner's original vision is almost certainly going to be part compromise and part innovation.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 08:58 PM
Okay FORD...

Here's Supe 1 Redux...

The restoration
In 2000, director Richard Donner and film restoration producer Michael Thau prepared a new 151-minute "Special Edition" originally for theatrical re-release. Working from original film elements (which were beginning to deteriorate), the film went through a six-month restoration, with both color and sound rejuvenated (and with some audio effects added, such as a different-sounding "whoosh" used for the opening credit items), and dirt that had been built in the film over twenty years cleaned. Also, Donner selected eight of the 45-plus minutes that had been used for television release to be incorporated into this new cut. This version was slated for worldwide theatrical re-issue, but was instead released to video and, for the first time ever, on DVD, in the summer of 2001. This version has been seen on cable television and in revival film houses.

The audio for this presentation of the movie is not a simple restoration. When inspecting materials for the restoration the original multi-channel soundtrack was deemed unusable for either theatrical or DVD release. The sound crew took on the job of re-recording the sound effects and mixing them in with the original dialogue and music tracks. Consequently, the soundtrack used for the DVD is an entirely new soundtrack. This caused a minor controversy in the DVD community as none of the original soundtrack mixes have, as yet, been made available.

A remastered version of the 143-minute theatrical cut was also prepared, and although this version has not been released on DVD, it has been seen on cable television. However, WB has confirmed that the theatrical cut will be issued for the first time on DVD as part of the studio's planned 14-disc box set, The Ultimate Superman Collection, on November 28, 2006. There will also be a "stand-alone" four-DVD set of the first film, which will include all the material carried over from the 2001 disc (see below) in addition to the theatrical cut and possible new supplements.

[edit]
2001 DVD Special Features
The currently available DVD (issued in 2001) is a double-sided disc.

Side A:
Feature presentation, with added scenes
Feature-length commentary with director Richard Donner and writer Tom Mankiewicz
Music-only audio track
Subtitles (in English, French, Spanish and Portuguese)
Side B:
Three behind-the-scenes documentaries (totalling over an hour)
Taking Flight: The Development of 'Superman'
Making 'Superman': Filming the Legend
The Magic Behind the Cape
Deleted scenes
Screen tests
Music outtakes
Two theatrical trailers
Vintage TV spot

A press release issued by Warner Home Video on July 21, 2006 announced The Christopher Reeve Superman Collection, an 8-disc box set featuring the DVD debut of the original 1978 theatrical version of this film, the 2001 restored edition, the original theatrical Superman II and deluxe versions of Superman III and Superman IV: The Quest for Peace. Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut will not be included in this set.



Donner's new take on 2 is going to be a stand alone...

What I would suggest is to purchase 1 and 2 right now...and you'll be able to get the original version of 1 as well...if you look hard enough. I got 1 and 2 and Wal Mart for 12 buck total...although it may be up now...

3 and 4 aren't really worth having for the price they'll be offered for...you can get them now cheap...

anyways...

It will be interesting to say the least. I'm watching 2 right now...and it's a solid film...but there certainly are parts that make you go...hmmm...

for example...it's obviously not Hackman's voice used through most of the film...which sucks...

and you can see recuts pretty easily...

ULTRAMAN VH
07-23-2006, 09:06 PM
GREAT!!! INVESTIGATION POJO!!!! my hats off to your prowess on this topic. You really did your homework. I read an article about this last night, but you really got into the meat and potatoes of the story. As a huge fan of the super hero genre, I am really looking forward to this release. And now you really have me chomping at the bit.

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 09:26 PM
Well bro...it's really a ??? right now...

the first version holds up very well...

but when you watch it...after seeing all of this information...

you can certainly see where there can be improvements...but with Donner having to screw around with the audio...and the problem of having to use Lester cuts...and lots of continuity issues...

it will be interesting...

Not to mention the fact that if Supe destroys the Fortress of Solitude...well...that would make you scratch your head at the whole basis of Supe 3...

ULTRAMAN VH
07-23-2006, 09:40 PM
Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Superman Returns?

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 09:58 PM
Okay...the short version...

I liked most of the cast...including Routh...who was perfect for the role...

but the script sucked ass...they tried to pay to much homage to the Donner films...and ultimately produced a much weeker knock off...

it's funny though...Routh...is being complained about being to thin...and lanky...and if you look at both he and Reeves...they have essentially the same build.

I watched the documentary of the film...and the big rip on Reeves?

He was to thin...

Donner was calling him the tall drink of water...

lmfao...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 10:04 PM
Here's what I said in another thread...


Originally posted by POJO_Risin
WARNING...I'm posting fucking spoilers...so if you don't want to know...don't fucking read it...and bob was a fuck of a lot nicer about ruining than I'm going to be...read it or don't...

Okay...a few general thoughts before I detail it a bit...

1. I felt many of the same things that Bob did when I walked out...what this film needed more than anything else...was...

fantastic...and there were absolute snippets of WOW...but I agree 100% with bob...not nearly fucking enough. This movie could have been great...more than great...just on effects alone. Unfortunately...Singer spent to much time showing us how FAST Superman was...so 80% of his shots are blue and red blurs...

After the first 30 minutes...the action...well...sucks...

the plane scene should have happened more than once...and through the whole film...

2. I actually liked the casting...and think the faults of this movie weren't the casting...but the script. Routh. I totally disagree with what everyone says about how "thin" he is and all that crap. He LOOKS like Superman...period. No, I don't collect still...but did. And he shouldn't have to look like the book...he's not much smaller than Reeve was...and is the same height...

He was a good Clark Kent...but they really didn't let that develop...and he was a good Superman...but they didn't let that develop...

When I walked out...I was thinking...he didn't talk much. When he did...there was that Reeve-ness about him...but whatever...the script absolutely sucked where Routh was involved.

I'm not going to go there with the Welling comments. I watch the show as well...and Welling is excellent in that show...and the show is excellent. That being said...I COULD see him doing the movie as well...but you can't take that show to the movie screen. It HAD to be different. Superman the movie...and Superman on TV have 2 totally different connotations.

There isn't a bigger Caviezel fan than I...and the guy can flat out fucking act...

but at 6'1 1/2-6'2" and 185 pounds...if you think Routh is wrong because he's thin...then Caviezel...is ALL wrong...

I despised Dean Cain in the role...His version of Superman and Clark Kent were very...very steered in a different direction...I liked the show a bit...during the Lex Luthor Arc...

as far as the suit...it was a bit dark for my taste...but liked the changes...overall...which surprised me...

I can get into all the semantics...but what it all comes down to is Routh has the look...and I think the chops...but he just didn't have enough...in either part.

Reeve's part was so fucking well developed with dialogue...and the relationship between he and Lois...and Perry...and Jimmy...and Lex...

Routh's version starts off uncomfortable with Lois...and the part was uncomfortable...and I liked that...in particular with Kent...but from that point on...Kent is an afterthought...basically...here he is AFTER Superman visits...and pining AFTER Lois (I liked that angle...but with nothing else...it sucked). He had an affableness that was good...and COULD DO the Reeve part...but wasn't given the opportunity. Singer got caught up in the fucking Wolverine angst (and fucking casting cyclops in the cyclops role is just fucking gay...no pun intended)...which was a good thought...but it had to have the rest...the strength of Supe...and the googi affableness of Kent....and it didn't...which made the part thin...



http://www.unificationfrance.com/IMG/jpg/superman_returns_1-2.jpg

http://www.patfullerton.com/superman/pix/christopherreeve/christreevesup6.jpg


Now...Kate Bosworth...I went into this film thinking the exact same as bob...she's to young...but you have to remember a few things...yeah...this is supposed to be 5 years after 2...but you also have to remember that it's a comic book onscreen. In which case...Lois in the comics...should be about 80...my point being...you have to suspend disbelief a bit...and it's not hard to believe that you run with Bosworth...yeah...22 is a bit young...

but she was actually quite good with what it gave her...started her off with the ode to Supe 2 in the eiffel...and showed her fire...

She had more meat than Routh to work with...but again...it wasn't enough...she wasn't the force that Kidder was...but mainly because she was fucking surrounded by to many fucking dudes...Marsden (who I thought was actually quite good...even though his role was cyclops), Routh...the kid...White...

there was to much protecting her...and not enough her taking charge...

yeah...she's eye candy...but as far as the realism goes...if you are looking for continuity in a movie that wasn't about continuity really...and at a Superman movie to boot...well...you get my point. She may have not been perfect for the role...and when I saw the pulitzer...I thought the same as bob...but again...if you give her the script she deserved...she could have been a better Lois Lane than Kidder...who was very good...

Kevin Spacey...not good...and I agree with everything that bob said. They needed to make him insane...and they tried. But they tried to throw the Hackman in there as well. Hackman's performance was brilliant...and the right mix of insane and humorous. What Spacey brings to the picture is "Hopper." If you know the movie I'm talking about...the crazed grasshopper from A Bug's Life. I wanted this Luthor to be crazy...angry...with the humor coming from Posey (who was as good as Valerie Perrine in the humor department...but again...not nearly as much developed. We knew about Ms. Tessmacher's family..through subtle dialogue...and got what made her tick...in the original...in this one...well...just a rip...


Bob was dead on about the other characters. Perry and Jimmy were central humor in the first movies...and Jimmy was heading there...but not a big part...and Perry was a waste really...

Fact of the matter is that the script felt like it was ripped thin because of special effects...

without the special effects...


More in my next post...

POJO_Risin
07-23-2006, 10:05 PM
Now...the film does fucking rip off the Donner Films...and I know it was on purpose...but they had the fucking opportunity of a lifetime to do their own deal here...and didn't...

The second they used that worn out from "The Movie" land deal...I nearly walked out...

I'm fucking sick of people just walking into the "Fortress of Solitude." Am I the only fucker that remembers that fucking EVEN SUPERMAN LOCKS UP THE FORTRESS WHEN HE LEAVES...WITH ONE BIG ASS LOCK!

I am a bit disappointed that they didn't fix the Luthor/Kent friendship a bit. I know the Donner films don't follow the comic arc at all...but the basis of the comics are that Luthor and Kent were friends...at one time...

which is why the series is good...because it plays with that. Anyways...Spacey still...loses to Hackman because of writing...although both actors are so fucking similar...and perfectly cast.

Anyways...

am I the only one that wondered how Superman GOT TO KRYPTON...AND IF THERE WAS NOTHING THERE...HOW HE GOT THE SHIP TO GET BACK?

And how about this...could Lex have built his continent without killing Million of people?

and...

the final spoiler...that you could see coming from a mile away...um...Isn't Superman Truth, Justice and the American Way? Well...he nailed it on the head then. Christ...

and superman as a fucking stalker...you have to be kidding me. I liked the angst...don't get me wrong...and him trying to figure it out. But Donner did it grander and better...having Superman tell Brando to piss off...and turning back time...

that's fucking angst...

not a fucking superstalker...

and the article...I mean...for fuck sake...SUPERMAN SAVED LOIS IN THE HELICOPTER CRASH...THE EARTHQUAKE...THE EIFFEL TOWER...NIAGARA FALLS...

and fuck...she writes an article about not needed superman???

I do wonder...would Posey have been a better Lois?

I think a major problem is the assumption that people have seen the first 2 movies...

no background really...to speak of...

Well...Batman was remade...brilliantly I think...

Superman?

Well...if I wanted an homage to Richard Fucking Donner...I coulda watched one on TNT...in one of those lifetime award specials. I wanted a new superman movie...not some half-assed remake...

3 out of 10 may be to much...

I will say this bob...that question bothered me...how did Lois KNOW????

and after watching the movie again...I have to say...I'm not sure she did...

I think they had her play it like she didn't know it was Superman's kid...until she saw him fling the piano...

Sarge's Little Helper
07-23-2006, 10:05 PM
Superman IS POJO

bueno bob
07-24-2006, 02:55 AM
With a little time to let Superman Returns set in and mash itself around...I'm left with this...

1. Brandon Routh was a pretty decent Clark Kent...but a bad Superman...I'm not as concerned about his size now as I was previously; I just don't find him particularly appealing or convincing - when I see him on the screen, I see a guy wearing the costume and just can't convince myself that it's Superman, and that's really his and Bryan Singer's fault.

2. Kate Bosworth blows as Lois Lane...sorry, but I still don't like her in the role at all - too young and not "Lois Lane" enough for my taste.

3. Script sucked - too many holes - too many opportunities to do something better and all it ended up being was a remake of Superman: The Movie. In no way was it worth the numerous years of waiting, various directors, and incessent script re-writes to get here.

...but I'm still hopeful for the next Singer/Superman film...

Cathedral
07-24-2006, 04:05 AM
I can't add any more to the reviews of Pojo and beuno, it had it's share of major problems.
I disagree with Routh's performance though, he did really good for what he was given to work with, IMO.

I even love what they did with the suit, it doesn't look like a Halloween Costume like the one Reeve wore in his films.

The stalker bit just pissed me off, they could have done that whole scene way differently than having him invade someone's privacy like a jealous Ex-boyfriend/husband.

And the 'prison-esque' scene where he was shanked in the kidney on the Krypto-Fort thingy with a piece of kryptonite was bullshit.

And how about the finely crafted seating that just formed on it's own complete with GOON table on that island Lex created?

First of all, that wound would have killed him long before he hit the bottom of the ocean.

I dunno, it was entertaining but, maybe i was just overly impressed with seeing it in IMAX 3-D.

Except for that shanking scene, which shocked my daughter a little, lol...I didn't feel ripped off.

Cathedral
07-24-2006, 04:07 AM
Originally posted by Sarge's Little Helper
Superman IS POJO

ROTMFFLMMFAO @ Super-Pojo-Man...

ULTRAMAN VH
07-24-2006, 09:56 AM
Pojo and Lord Vader really did a great job reviewing the flick and breaking down its problems, so like Cat, I can't really add much. I really liked the special effects and felt that Routh really did a great job as Clark and the Man of Steel. Pojo made a very interesting point about Lane and I think Posey would have made a great Lois Lane. She is a far superior actress to Bosworth and would have made a scrappy Lois Lane. Maybe age was a factor with Posey being in her late 30'S. With the story picking up 5 years later, this could have worked. Bosworth was terribly miscast and had the personality of a Mr. Softy ice cream cone. Glad Pojo pointed this out.

flappo
07-24-2006, 11:05 AM
i loved that film

i went to the premier at leciester square in 1980 when sarah douglas gave my family tickets as we did her wedding dress

Vinnie Velvet
07-25-2006, 01:06 PM
SNEEK PEAK AT A FEW SCENES FROM THE SUPERMAN II-DONNER CUT!!!!!!

I believe these were presented at the recent Comic-Con.

Check it out!!!

:eek:

http://www.iesb.net/index.php?option=com_d4j_ezine&task=read&page=1&category=11&article=47&Itemid=38

Vinnie Velvet
07-28-2006, 10:44 AM
SUPER BUMP!

ULTRAMAN VH
08-02-2006, 12:15 PM
Slightly off topic, but I just got to check out some of the episodes from the dvd release of the 3 and 4th seasons of Adventures Of Superman with George Reeves and the quality is excellent. I highly recommend it to die hard fans of The Man Of Steel. The stories are toned down and more directed toward children but to see this great series in color is worth it. The 1st and 2nd seasons were surprisingly violent with Superman taking on mobsters and crime syndicates. In one episode Lois Lane gets smacked around and gives back as good as she gets. Hard to believe for a fifties television show. The 1st Lois Lane in this series was excellent and really scrappy compared to the bone bag dimwit playing Lois in Superman Returns.

POJO_Risin
08-05-2006, 09:26 AM
It's still playing here in IMAX 3D...maybe I'll check it out...

my PROBLEM with the special effects are that the best of the best are in the beginning...

that scene with the plane was perhaps the most action packed in ANY of the movies...and left me thinking...

oh fuck...the end is going to be incredible...

only to have Superman END UP IN THE FUCKING HOSPITAL!!!!

Singer...that fag...made Superman basically mortal...which...no offense...SUCKS ASS...

And as I've said before...

I'm not as high on Routh as Kent...although I think he did an okay job...it's just that Reeves was so fucking good...

that scene after Superman takes Lois flying around...and Clark is pounding on the door afterwards...

Lois answers the door...and goes to change...and Clark is bumbling...then decides to tell her who he his...and switches to Supe mode...then changes last second...

the transformation was fucking incredible...

anyways...Routh was a plausible Clark...and could have been a better Supe...

the script just sucked ass...

or...

Routh did...

but it really didn't seem like the vehicle was built for Supe to have much...

Where as Reeves was given a meaty role...it looks as though Routh was given the hambone smack to the face.

So...was it because of the script?

or the edits?

bueno bob
08-05-2006, 11:31 AM
Honestly, I really want to see footage of Routh in that soap opera he starred in and compare his chops there against Superman Returns...

I think that'd tell me a lot about his acting skills right there.

Maybe he just looks the part but isn't convincing with a lot of "Superman" dialogue...

Could well be the case...?

Figs
04-13-2007, 09:59 AM
Just rented the "Donnner cut" - definitely better. Whlie a lot of it is the same, the scenes with Brando are cool, especially how they explain him getting his powers back. I was very glad to see the shitty comic relief during the fight cut out, especially the douche laughing on the phone while it gets blown up the street. The ending still sucks. They use the "turn back time ending" from the first movie, I guess this was originally initially intended for S2 anyway, but turning back time is a shitty ending no matter how you slice it. The "forget my identity kiss" in the Lester version sucks too. I would have rather she was just trusted with the secret, or killed off. It do wonder how Donner would have ended the movie if he had the chance to finish it.

Terry
04-15-2007, 11:22 PM
The Lester cut wasn't all that horrible.

Actually preferred the ending of that to the Donner Cut.