VA's confessional and a EVH guitar question

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I have a confession, please forgive me... This is tough to admit, so let me get through it all....

I just recently finally upgraded my home computer.... Although I have "high-speed" Internet service, it's the "value" kind (basically around DSL speed) combined with my old computer that was on it's last legs.... Ya know, P3, only about 300MB of RAM, etc....

So because of that, when I used to launch Youtube videos, the video would have to buffer, and it would be very stop and go....

So what I'm saying is that I didn't launch too many Youtubes....

So now that I got a decent E610, P4 with 1GB of RAM, it relatively flies...

And I did a big search on Youtube for Van Halen videos....

Here's the part I need forgiveness on....

I came upon this Unchained video from the '98 Cherone tour from Sidney....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aUhWCP6ffE

Now you have to understand, Unchained played live is my favorite version of my favorite VH song.... Of course, it's the Oakland '81 version that is the penultimate for me, so I'm very picky when I hear different live versions of the song....

Specifically, I have always said that the US Festival and 1984 tour versions of Unchained did not sound very good to me, too damn fast....

But I have to be honest, the sound of Ed's guitar in this video from '98 sounds better than any time since the Fair Warning tour !!!!

Now don't get me wrong, Gary's singing is absolutely PAINFUL to listen to, but that's not what I'm talking about....

Am I totally off base, or do you guitar gurus see where I'm coming from ???

[Romeo Delight]

I am not a guitar guru, but I agree VA...

Ed's sound on Unchained and Mean Street in particular was great.

I'm the one sounded very cool on that tour as well.

[jhale667]

Eddie's sound is cool, but geez...Cherone is a beat behind the whole fucking song!! :uck:

[Va Beach VH Fan]

As I said, painful...

Perhaps I put that too lightly.... :D

[houseofpain]

Okay. I checked it out. Truth is the sound kicks ass. If you can get past Gary its not bad. I can't get past Gary. Don't get me worng, I like what he did in Extreme. That was that bands sound. If I wanted Van Halen to sound like Queen, I'd ask for Freddie Mercury, but that isn't what I want. I want a baritone singing not a high tenor.

[Panamark]

The only chance Ive ever had to see EVH was in Sydney
with Ga y Cherone.

Fuck that....

That tour should have been with Dave. No question
about it. Eddie shits in our faces and doesnt give a fuck.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by Panamark
That tour should have been with Dave. No question
about it. Eddie shits in our faces and doesnt give a fuck.

Agreed. I've heard a few songs from that tour, and Ed's playing was on fire. All that was missing was Dave.

[BrownSound1]

Guys, I think that tone sounds like absolute ASS. I don't think it is even as good as his tone during the 5150 tour. Hell this sounds like he's got a distortion pedal in front of an already buzzy 5150 amp. Sorry, I just don't hear it as a great tone.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

I'm not a guitar player, so I wouldn't know if he was putting it through a metal can on a string....

I guess what I was really doing was comparing that tone to the ones on the US Festival and 1984 boots....

[Nitro Express]

I went to a VH3 show and Ed played the best live and sounded great. Now I've seen Van Halen in 1980, at the Us Festival in 83, 1984, an the OU812 show which I got busted for public drunkeness and got hauled out of the venue by security. I went out to puke and the cops nabbed my. I just remember being escorted out by the cops while hearing Alex's drum solo. LOL!

Anyways. Ed played great on the VH3 tour and had a great live sound. The band was great but they had this gay fairy named Gary prancing around. Yeah, the singer should have been Dave.

[BrownSound1]

If what was on that clip was Ed's live sound, then it wasn't great. :D

[Nitro Express]

Ed probably had the best live sound when he was using the setup Custom Audio Electronics put together for him using custom Marshall heads and H-H power amps with his 5150 Kramer.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
If what was on that clip was Ed's live sound, then it wasn't great. :D

True Ed's live sounds wasn't his best, but his playing was better than it had been for some time.

[BrownSound1]

Oh I don't disagree that his playing was very sharp. Best of the post-Dave era. However I think his greatest live tones were from the Oakland '81 show, and even those videos from the VHII tour as well. The tone on Unchained from Oakland hasn't been topped EVER. Stock Marshalls...no rackmount bullshit, and his old guitars. The minute Ed went to a Bradshaw setup his tone went out the fookin' window.

[ELVIS]

He said he didn't like that sound...

And the tone on Unchained sounds like buzzy stompbox, kid's bedroom tone...

And judging by the boots, I don't think Ed's playing on the VHIII tour was all that great...

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
The tone on Unchained from Oakland hasn't been topped EVER.

Couldn't have said it better myself, the definition of RAW...

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by ELVIS
He said he didn't like that sound...

And the tone on Unchained sounds like buzzy stompbox, kid's bedroom tone...

And judging by the boots, I don't think Ed's playing on the VHIII tour was all that great...

Elvis I do hope you're talking about the VHIII version of Unchained.

[Don Corleone]

Originally posted by ELVIS
He said he didn't like that sound...

And the tone on Unchained sounds like buzzy stompbox, kid's bedroom tone...

And judging by the boots, I don't think Ed's playing on the VHIII tour was all that great...

Elvis, from the boots I've heard of that tour Ed was on fire, he was nailing the songs. Are you sure that you're not getting the III tour mixed up with the 2004 tour (where Ed couldn't play for shit).

[Plexi Head]

Originally posted by ELVIS
He said he didn't like that sound...

And the tone on Unchained sounds like buzzy stompbox, kid's bedroom tone...

And judging by the boots, I don't think Ed's playing on the VHIII tour was all that great...


Judging by the boots? Did you go? Ed's playing on the 3 tour was bang on, the best he had ever played live. He was sober on that tour but I guess you HAD TO BE THERE.

[redfire]

Anyone who has ever seen me talk about the VH3 tour knows I hated that sound. Wasn't Ed playing the 5150 II on that tour? It's been 8 years or so, so I really don't remember. But in terms of sound, Brownie got it best... "ass"... Ed becomes Captain Buzzsaw. You might like that sound, but to me, it sounds like the EQ on his amp is rake right. And he's running as much gain as he can.

To answer your question VA, no the VH3 Unchained doesn't touch '81 Oakland. I have a decent boot from 1984, let me go find it and see about that Unchained.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by redfire
To answer your question VA, no the VH3 Unchained doesn't touch '81 Oakland. I have a decent boot from 1984, let me go find it and see about that Unchained.

I would NEVER say that this VHIII version would sound like Oakland '81, that's flat-out blasphemy...

What I said was that Ed's sound was the best SINCE the FW tour....

In terms of Unchained specifically, the tempo after the FW tour, for example at the US Fest. and especially during the '84 tour, is just too damn fast...

Why ?? We'll after 20+ years of research ;) , I think that since Unchained was played as the 2nd song on the DD tour, and as the opening song on the '84 tour, it really seems that their adrenalain is pumping so much that they sped up the tempo....

Sounds good to me.... :D

If they ever get back with Dave, they need to put Unchained back to the 1st encore, where it can be played like it deserves to be played...

[ELVIS]

Nah, the playing and the tone on Live Without a Net blows that VHIII crap away...

[Nitro Express]

Ed was getting great tone on Live Without A Net. The problem was there was this Screech Own named Sammy jumping around.

Ed had good tone on the VH3 tour but the 5150's do sound shrill on some of the old tunes. You don't get the looseness and midrange of his old sound.

Oakland was a good raw sound. Probably just the sound of speaker distortion and power tube clipping. The rig is about ready to lose it, it's to the edge and ready to go but not quite. Yeah, that's a great sound for sure!

Ed used Laney, Musicman amps and Sound City amps on some of those early tours because he was blowing Marshalls up too much. It might not be a Marshall we are hearing at Oakland. I would love to know what he was burning through that night.

[Nitro Express]

I know Ed used to use two Electrovoice speakers and two Celesian speakers in his cabs live.

Recording it was an old Marshall cab with greenbacks and the old Superlead 100.

Live he was looking for a good tone but reliability as well so he was using different stuff than in the studeo.

[Nitro Express]

Also at Oakland Eddie was using guitars with Charvel bodies that used a bezzle. Mounted in there for the pickup was a Dimarzio that looks like a superdistortion.

It's deffinately not a PAF screwed into the wood.

So some people's favorite EVH live sound might be a Dimarzio pickup burning through something besides a Marshall.

I have a clip of EVH playing his sharkguitar (butchered Ibanez Explorer copy) and it has a Dimarzio in the bridge postition. Sounds freaking great on "On Fire"

[Nitro Express]

I made an EVH style guitar but used a bezel and a Dimarzio PAF Pro. It's not painted like Ed's but it's got and original Floyd screwed into the wood and a maple neck.

I catch crap because people say it's not a true Eddie guitar because the pickup isn't screwed into the wood. I just show them the Oakland footage. LOL!

[Nitro Express]

We can pick our favorite EVH tone but we weren't the guy playing those guitars and amps everyday, everynight, and for years.

Tone is one thing but feel of the rig is another. A Wolfgang through a cranked 5150 is very different than a Kramer blowing through a good Marshall.

I think Ed just wanted something different for a change. He wanted more balls and gain. He wanted hot pickups with warmth.

To be honest I like both sounds but I think most of us don't dig the 5150 sound because that is associated with the Hagar/Cherone fuckfest. If Dave was still in the band I think Ed's new tone would be better accepted.

[indeedido]

I think that tone sucks. Too much treble or mid. It is too thin. I like the thicker tone of yesteryear.

[Nitro Express]

I think part of the problem is Rudy Lerien (Ed's guitar/amp tech) was always changing the tubes on Ed's amp and rebiasing it. Old Marshalls have an adjustible bias voltage.

5150's are a fixed bias amps and the bias voltage is on the low side. This increases tube life but makes the sound colder. By moddifying the bias to an adjustable bias and increasing the tube plate voltage to optimum, 5150 amps warm up amazingly.

You have to use good tubes and bias them to where they sound good. 5150 amps warm up if you drop the pre gain down and boost the post gaing. The EQ and Ressonance/Presence need to be dialed in as well.

A cold bias and driving the pregain (especially in the lead channel) gives you the buzzsaw everyone hates.