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Nickdfresh
08-23-2006, 10:22 AM
Long ass article, but interesting nevertheless.


CLINTON RACING AGAINST DARK HORSES

Will the Democrats choose another unknown in 2008?

By PATRICK REDDY
Special to The News
8/20/2006

Well on her way to an apparently easy re-election victory this year, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton steadfastly refuses to discuss a 2008 presidential campaign. Why should she? Everyone else talks about it for her.

If she does run, Clinton will start as the solid favorite for the Democratic nomination with a base of at least 35 percent, mainly from women and black voters. No other Democrat is currently polling more than 20 percent in the latest Gallup Poll, not even those who have previously run for national office, such as former Vice President Al Gore, 2004 candidate Sen. John Kerry and 2004 vice presidential nominee John Edwards. In a divided field, the former first lady could be quite formidable.

But Clinton may not run in 2008 and even if she does, there will almost certainly come a moment in the primary season when the race narrows to her and one or perhaps two other principal rivals.

Who will that likely be: a national figure or a previously unknown, untested Democrat? Democrats looking for an alternative to Clinton could choose among several men who already appeared on the national ticket - Gore, Kerry or Edwards - or Delaware Sen. Joseph Biden, who sought the party's nomination in 1988, and Wednesday declared his candidacy for 2008.

But the voters may be tired of the past and could be looking for a "new face." The online source Wikipedia defines a "dark horse" candidate as one "who is nominated unexpectedly, without previously having been discussed or considered as a likely choice." These nominees are largely unknown before the campaign and are usually from smaller states, resulting in less media attention.

If history is any guide, Clinton's toughest competition may be someone few people have ever heard of. After all, her husband Bill came out of nowhere to win the presidency.



Party concerns

Many party leaders are hesitant to voice their concerns or doubts about the Clintons on the record for fear of offending the power couple. Of course, the former president has strongly gone on the record that his wife is an outstanding human being and would make an excellent president.

But former Sen. John Breaux, a popular Democrat from red state Louisiana, was candid and cautious about Hillary's chances to win over Middle America: "People already think they know who she is. So for a vast segment of the population, she'd have to change their opinion of her. . . . She can keep the base, but that's all she has. And that's a real challenge. That's tough."

Biden commented: "She is, you know, the elephant in the room. She's the big deal."

TheWashingtonnote.com, an online political Web site run by Steve Clemons, recently reported that Harry Reid plans to step down as Senate Democratic leader, and Democratic insiders say Reid is offering to support Clinton for Democratic leader if she foregoes a run for president.

Clemons wrote: "Many are realizing that the electoral map is not something one can wave a magic wand over and reverse the views of 42 percent of Americans who believe that they know Hillary Clinton well and have strongly formed views of her and will not vote for her under any conditions, according to recent polls. Reports are that Sen. Clinton herself knows this and that her own enthusiasm for running actually trails that of her husband, her advisers and her staff, whose enthusiasm for the race is ranked in that order, with Hillary the least enthusiastic."

Emerging from obscurity

It's been said that the Republican Party is like a business: Republicans promote from within. Since 1945, the Republican nomination has almost always gone to the front-running candidate at the start of the primary season.

By contrast, the Democrats, who consider themselves more of a grass-roots "party of the people," have often turned to obscure candidates. Consider the following history of Democratic nominees who were "not considered as likely" choices.

Former Tennessee Gov. James Polk, chosen by the 1844 Democratic Convention on the ninth ballot, was the first "dark horse" elected president. Historians consider Polk the most productive one-term president, because he achieved all four of his main pledges: reducing the federal tariff; annexing Texas; settling a border dispute with Canada; and acquiring California and the rest of the American Southwest.

Polk also kept his promise to serve only one term, and died shortly after leaving the White House in 1849.

Buffalo's Grover Cleveland had an even more remarkable rise than Polk, going from an attorney in private practice in early 1881 to mayor of Buffalo in November 1881 to governor of New York in November 1882 to president-elect in 1884. Elected to every office as a reformer, he was the only Democratic president in the Civil War/Reconstruction/Gilded Age of war, division, big business growth and corruption.

Historian Richard Hofstadter called him "the flower of American political culture in the Gilded Age." Cleveland won the national popular vote while running for re-election in 1888, but fell short in the Electoral College. He then won a rematch with Benjamin Harrison in 1892, making him the only president to serve two non-consecutive terms.

Woodrow Wilson was the next Democratic president, rising from president of Princeton University in 1910 to governor of New Jersey in 1911 and the White House a year later after being nominated on the 46th ballot and then winning a three-way race between former President Theodore Roosevelt and President William Howard Taft.

Wilson presided over the allied victory in World War I, the extension of the popular vote to the U.S. Senate, the passage of women's suffrage and child labor laws, the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank, low-cost farm loans and the eight-hour workday and Prohibition.

An average of surveys by leading historians places Wilson as the sixth-greatest president, and even the Wall Street Journal's survey of conservative historians ranked him 11th best.



A meteoric rise

Jimmy Carter may have had the most spectacular rise from sheer obscurity. He was the first president elected by nailing down his nomination exclusively through the primary system. Carter was the only Democratic nominee of the last 40 years to surpass 50 percent of the national popular vote.

In the spring of 1975, only 6 percent of all voters knew enough about the one-term Georgia governor to have an opinion (4 percent positive, 2 percent negative). In short, the year before Carter was elected president, nearly 95 percent of Americans had never heard of him.

We all know that other Southern governor, William Jefferson Clinton, now but when he started his first campaign in the winter of 1991, only 25 percent of Americans had heard of him and just 2 percent of Democrats supported his nomination. After New York Gov. Mario M. Cuomo withdrew in 1991, "undecided" led the Democratic field.

Although Clinton had been elected governor of Arkansas four times (beginning at age 32) and had been viewed within the party as a rising star, his nomination was in severe jeopardy until he won the Florida Primary and the rest of the South on March 10.

Other dark horses who won the Democratic nomination, but lost in November, include: William Jennings Bryan (a little-known, 36-year-old Nebraska congressman who stampeded the 1896 Democratic Convention with his famous "Cross of Gold" speech and was nominated three times); Alton B. Parker, chief judge of the New York State Court of Appeals (1904); Ohio Gov. James M. Cox, whose running mate in 1920 was a young Franklin Roosevelt; John W. Davis, a New York City lawyer and former Virginia congressman (1924); South Dakota Sen. George S. McGovern (1972); and Massachusetts Gov. Michael S. Dukakis (1988).

Sure, Democrats in the last century picked big names like New York Gov. Al Smith, the most noted governor in America and the first Catholic to be nominated; Franklin Roosevelt, the cousin of the phenomenally popular Teddy; Adlai E. Stevenson, the grandson of a vice president and presidential candidate; John F. Kennedy, the son of a Roosevelt administration appointee; and Hubert H. Humphrey, a national figure since 1948 when he fought Strom Thurmond at the Democratic Convention over civil rights.

Also rising to the top job were vice presidents like Harry S. Truman and Lyndon B. Johnson. But almost as often, the Democrats went with dark horses.



Today's dark horses

What does all this mean for Democrats in 2008? Over the past year, Clinton has led every poll of Democratic primary voters with support ranging from 31 percent to 44 percent in multicandidate fields, and more than 50 percent in two-way races against well-known opponents Gore, Kerry or Edwards.

So Clinton starts off as the solid favorite. But upsets have happened before in the Democratic primaries: McGovern trailed Maine Sen. Edmund S. Muskie badly in 1971 before winning the 1972 nomination and Kerry overcame Howard B. Dean's initial lead in 2004.

The strengths and weaknesses of Gore and Kerry are apparent to most Democrats. Who else might step up to contest Clinton if Democrats are looking for a fresh face? Here, in alphabetical order, are the potential 2008 Democratic dark horses:

• Indiana Sen. B. Evan Bayh III: (polling 1 percent to 3 percent in 2006) was on Gore's short list of running mates in 2000. Though not the most exciting speaker, he's well-respected as a thoughtful, conscientious moderate-liberal who represents one of the most Republican states outside the Deep South. He's also a former governor who is the only nominee capable of turning red Indiana blue, and could also help in the crucial Midwestern battlegrounds of Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa. Despite his father Birch's 1976 presidential run, less than a quarter of all Democrats currently recognize his name. Like Mark Warner, his main pitch is that he has executive experience and can reshape the Electoral College battlefield in the Democrats' favor.

• Wisconsin Sen. Russell D. Feingold: (polling 1 percent to 3 percent in 2006) got some national notice for being the co-sponsor of campaign finance reform with the much more famous - and potential Republican 2008 nominee - Sen. John McCain. Feingold is the best-known of the dark horses listed here. But more than 60 percent of voters still didn't know enough about Feingold to rate him in April. Those who did recognize his name were split 19 percent evenly positive-negative, with Democrats obviously much more favorable than Republicans. But Feingold, a die-hard opponent of the Iraq war from the beginning, could surge based on anti-war sentiment as did Minnesota Sen. Eugene J. McCarthy in 1968 and George McGovern in 1972. The Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire primary are dominated by white liberals, so there could be an opening there for Feingold.

• New Mexico Gov. William B. Richardson: (polling 2 percent in 2006) has some foreign policy experience as former Ambassador to the United Nations in the Clinton administration. If he runs, he will set a landmark as the first serious Hispanic candidate in America. And given the changing demographics of the 21st century, he will be the first of many. He's almost completely unknown outside of New Mexico. And the schedule as currently configured doesn't offer him much ethnic help: Other than the Nevada Caucuses, the first big concentration of Hispanics in Florida doesn't come until after the field gets culled in New Hampshire. But as an accomplished Hispanic governor of a key swing state whose formidable ethnic appeal could help greatly in Arizona, Colorado and Nevada, he'd make an excellent running mate who could help get back the million or so Hispanic Democrats lost to George W. Bush in 2004. As would Colorado Sen. Ken Salazar.

• Iowa Gov. Thomas J. Vilsack: (polling 0 percent to 1 percent in 2006) would presumably have the advantage in the first-in-the-nation Iowa caucuses. If he shows any strength at all, most of his Democratic colleagues would concede the state to him and fight on in New Hampshire, as happened with Iowa Sen. Thomas R. Harkin in 1992. Bill Clinton finished second to Paul Tsongas in the Granite State and then won the nomination a few weeks later with a sweep in the South. Virtually no one outside of Iowa has heard of Vilsack. But if he can finish first or second in New Hampshire, he will be Hillary's main challenger. Like Bayh, he'll be using a Midwestern strategy to make the "electability" argument.

• Former Virginia Gov. Mark R. Warner: (polling 2 percent to 5 percent in 2006) seems to be basing his entire campaign on "electability." George Will has quoted him as asking: Which red states can Hillary turn blue? That's a good idea as rank-and-file Democrats are hungering for a winner. Warner made a multimillion-dollar fortune as co-founder of Nextel Cellular and reached out to voters by sponsoring a NASCAR team. In his successful gubernatorial bid, Warner ran more than 10 points stronger than Gore and Kerry in rural Virginia. He also left office with a 75 percent approval rating in a state that has gone Republican in 10 straight presidential elections and greatly helped a Democratic successor win. Voters nationally gave him a 21 percent to 16 percent favorable rating with 63 percent undecided. So he has tremendous potential for growth.

One possible problem is that he did sign a major tax increase early in his term. Like Bayh and Richardson, he also would make a good running mate for the next Democratic nominee. If the Democrats really want to play strategic in the Electoral College, they would go with a Warner-Bayh or Bayh-Warner ticket. Such a pairing could swing Virginia, Indiana, Ohio, Iowa and probably Florida into the Democratic column to easily win the next election. But such a ticket isn't likely.



Obama could jump in

It cannot be stressed enough that low early polls for dark horses are nearly meaningless because almost nobody outside of their home state has heard of them. Carter would be the classic example here.

So it's hardly surprising that these men currently trail "undecided" or "don't know." The Iowa caucuses will open the 2008 schedule only six months from now in the winter of 2007, followed by caucuses in Nevada, the New Hampshire primary and then South Carolina. A good showing in Iowa or New Hampshire will quickly get any of these candidates the name recognition they'll need in 2008. And of course, some fairly well-known "up-and-comers" like Illinois Sen. Barack Obama could jump in to liven up the race.

Using history as a guide, we can forecast with reasonable accuracy the outlines of the 2008 Democratic primaries.

No person since the process was reformed in 1972 has won the nomination of either party without finishing in the top two in either Iowa or New Hampshire.

After New Hampshire, the field is usually "winnowed" to two or three main candidates. If she runs, Clinton's base of white feminists, Clinton loyalists, some labor support and minorities should get her into the top two.

The race heads South after New Hampshire and it will be very interesting to see who Clinton's main rivals will be. Gore says he is not running now, while Kerry almost certainly would like to give it another try and Edwards and Biden are already running.

Last December, Eleanor Clift wrote in Newsweek that, "Democrats want to win, and they'll abandon Hillary in a New York minute if they think there's a new, more competitive model coming on line."

If that is true - and don't think it's been close to proven yet - virtually all of her opponents will likely gang up on her and then try to pick up the pieces if she falls. Who will be her main rival? Gore, Kerry, Edwards or someone else?

The best way for a dark horse to upset Clinton is to ambush her in Iowa or New Hampshire and then quickly become the main alternative. In a split field, that will be a very tall order.

But if history guides 2008, the primaries won't be a cakewalk for Clinton. Sooner or later, someone somewhere will step up to challenge her. It's ironic, but the toughest opponent for the wife of the last dark horse Democratic president may be another unknown.


Patrick Reddy serves as a consultant to California's Assembly Democrats.

Temp. Link (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060820/1052943.asp)

rucalobe
08-23-2006, 08:50 PM
Great article, thanks. Given the fact that our national demography has changed so much in favor of Hispanics, I firmly believe that the next candidate for president has to choose a Hispanic (or Hispanic-friendly) running mate. As such, Clinton would go with Bill Richardson or Ken Salazar as running mate, while John McCain would select Mel Martinez or even Puerto Rico's Resident Commissioner, Luis Fortuno.

Nonetheless, 2008 will be extremely interesting!

Nickdfresh
08-23-2006, 08:54 PM
Ha! Somebody read it at least. The rumor is that Hillary hasn't decided to run at all, despite maintaining a committee. And that she's leaning towards not doing it.

POJO_Risin
08-23-2006, 09:08 PM
I've actually heard that as well...

and of course the rumblings that the democrats are offering her the head of the Senate to keep her from running...

Somewhere in here...I have talked about a potential Warner/Bayh ticket...

who knows what the fucking Democrats will do...

but most likely...it will be wrong...

FORD
08-24-2006, 07:17 AM
God help this country - not the Democratic party but the entire COUNTRY - if we allow the DLC/AIPAC traitors to steal the nomination again.

Hillary is unacceptable. Bayh is worse. Biden is a tool of the Credit Card industry that is bankrupting millions of Americans and then writing their own laws to make sure people can't get out of financial imprisonment (unlike corporations)

I've heard very little from Warner and what I have heard didn't impress me. Just another boring mushy middle DLC shill who doesn't seem to stand for anything.

If we still had a reputable media and an honest voting process in this country, Al Gore would have been President the last 6 years and the entire planet would have been better off for it.

If Gore decides he wants the job, it's his and anyone claiming to be a "Democrat" who says otherwise is a damn fool to stand in his way.

Other than that, Some combination of Russ Feingold, John Edwards, Wes Clark, or someone yet not considered is going to be the logical choice.

Obama's not ready and he's said so himself. Too young and not enough experience. Should he be one to watch in the future? Absolutely.

Howard Dean? He said he wouldn't run if he were DNC chair. But if it comes down to him being able to do more good for the country than the party, that can always be changed.

And if the Doctor's in, he's takin it all the way this time.

It will get interesting, no doubt about that. But for now, I'm just looking about 70 days into the future.....

Nickdfresh
08-25-2006, 07:56 AM
August 25, 2006
It’s Never Too Early to Gear Up for ’08 Race
By ADAM NAGOURNEY

DETROIT, Aug. 24 — For Chuck Larson, a former chairman of the Iowa Republican Party, the past few months have included a flight to Albany for dinner at the executive mansion with Gov. George E. Pataki of New York, a likely 2008 presidential contender. Mr. Larson was also summoned for a long private sit-down with Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts at a hotel in Des Moines.

And there was an hourlong visit with Senator John McCain of Arizona at his private office on Capitol Hill, where Mr. McCain, a Vietnam veteran, asked Mr. Larson about his just-completed tour in Iraq. That one closed the deal. So last week, Mr. Larson could be found at Mr. McCain’s side at the Iowa State Fair, squiring the senator from cow to hog to the pork-chop-on-a-stick stand in his new role as Mr. McCain’s Iowa adviser.

Every four years, politicians on both sides of the fence say the presidential race has begun earlier than ever. The difference this time is that it appears to be true.

The bath of attention for Mr. Larson reflects what officials in both parties describe as an urgent and persistent effort by potential presidential contenders to begin building the foundation of a campaign for 2008, starting even before a vote has been cast in the midterm elections. In Iowa, Michigan and other important early primary states, a small storm of activity is taking place, as the nearly 20 Democrats and Republicans who are eyeing races have become increasingly anxious at the realization that there are only so many big-name staff members, contributors, prominent local supporters and minutes on the evening news.

This is the first time in years that there have been wide-open fields for Democrats and Republicans, and that is kindling competition for the services of people like Jim Jordan, who worked in 2004 as a campaign manager for the presidential campaign of Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts.

“There really aren’t enough proven campaign managers and consultants and seasoned field operatives to go around,’’ said Mr. Jordan, who just signed on with Mark Warner, a Democrat and the former governor of Virginia who is considering a run for president.

The signs of activity are everywhere. On Thursday, Mr. Warner was in Detroit campaigning for Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm, a Democrat seeking re-election in a state with the second largest trove of delegates among states expected to schedule nominating contests in the critical first three weeks of the 2008 primary season. On the same day, Mr. Romney announced that he had created a 75-member Michigan Steering Committee, widely viewed as the cornerstone of a Romney-for-President operation in the state.

Nine candidates were in Iowa last week: four Democrats and five Republicans. That does not count Gov. Tom Vilsack of Iowa, who is also likely to seek the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination. And as candidates today try to figure out what states will matter in 2008, Iowa is just one stop on this busy circuit.

“Sorry for being late getting back to you,” Katon Dawson, the South Carolina Republican chairman said in a telephone interview. “Giuliani’s second visit down here threw us off.”

Mr. Dawson said Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, had been in the state to do a fund-raiser for the South Carolina Republican Party — local party officials learned long ago that one of the fringe benefits of having eager-to-please prospective presidential candidates in town was pressing them into fund-raising — as well as campaigning in Congressional races. So had Mr. Romney, Mr. Dawson said as he reviewed his calendar of political visitors to South Carolina. And Mr. Pataki. And Newt Gingrich, the former House speaker. And Gov. Mike Huckabee of Arkansas.

Typically, even in highly competitive years, candidates do not begin doing this kind of recruiting and traveling until after the midterm elections. Mr. Jordan did not begin as Mr. Kerry’s campaign manager until after November 2002, and did not begin putting together a full-fledged staff until January, he said.

But as of today — before Labor Day of the midterm elections — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, Mr. McCain, Mr. Warner and John Edwards, the former North Carolina senator and 2004 presidential candidate, have built what appear to be the closest to full-formed skeletons of national campaign organizations.

They have signed on fund-raisers (Mrs. Clinton’s roster includes Terry McAuliffe, the former Democratic national chairman and close friend to her and her husband, former President Bill Clinton), as well as pollsters, media advisers, communications directors, policy advisers and, inevitably enough, Web specialists.

Mr. Romney has four full-time workers in Iowa and three in South Carolina, his aides said. And the candidates themselves do seem to be everywhere, in what officials in both parties take as a sign of how times have shifted.

“That’s the difference compared to 2004 — it started later in the ’04 cycle,” said Joe Erwin, the Democratic party leader in South Carolina. “Warner has been in two or three times,” Mr. Erwin said, along with Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana, Mr. Kerry and Mr. Vilsack.

Aides to most of the candidates said there was risk in delay. There may be a dwindling opportunity to nail down big names — Mr. McCain’s aides said this week that Robert B. Zoellick, the former deputy secretary of state, was the latest big name to join the McCain camp. But it is also important to be perceived by contributors and political journalists as viable and gaining support.

Mr. Romney’s supporters were understandably cheered when David Yepsen, the influential columnist for The Des Moines Register, wrote a column showering Mr. Romney’s efforts with praise, calling him the best organized of any Republican candidate in the state and declaring that he was “well on his way toward winning the 2008 Iowa Republican caucuses.”

Given how much competition there is, the candidates have been resourceful in coming up with new ways to make friends in important places.

Senator Bayh has created Camp Bayh, training political operatives and dispatching them to help in the local elections in Iowa this year. “I am visiting Iowa more than any place, more than any other state than Indiana,” he said after speaking to Iowa Democrats at a small coffee shop in Cedar Rapids.

Mr. Romney, clearly enjoying his role as chairman of the Republican Governors Association, went to Cedar Rapids to campaign with Representative Jim Nussle, the Republican candidate for governor. There, Mr. Romney announced, to the audible gasps from an audience of devoted Republicans, that his committee was giving $500,000 to the Nussle campaign.

Mr. Pataki of New York is using the lure of the Saratoga Racetrack to make friends. Aides said he was bringing 15 Republican state senators from New Hampshire for a day at the races on Friday.

The competition has been both for big-name people and to work out of a national headquarters, and that starts with the small group of people who were at the core of President Bush’s campaigns for the White House.

Mr. McCain has worked hard in trying to get veterans of the president’s campaigns, succeeding with Mark McKinnon, President Bush’s media adviser; Terry Nelson, his political director; and, in all likelihood, Nicolle Wallace, who was the White House communications director.

One of the top members of Mr. Bush’s campaigns, Matthew Dowd, who was his chief strategist, is the object of at least interest of both the McCain and Romney campaigns, Republicans say. “Matt is the biggest fish out there who hasn’t signed,” said one of Mr. McCain’s associates, who insisted on anonymity to discuss internal campaign deliberations.

But Mr. Dowd, along with two of the other top lieutenants in the Bush presidential campaign — Karl Rove, the president’s chief political adviser, and Ken Mehlman, the chairman of the Republican National Committee — have told friends they are unlikely to do another campaign.

Some of the most significant maneuvering involves states like Iowa and New Hampshire, because they hold early primaries and caucuses and require the kind of expertise that comes from either living there or having worked on campaigns there.

Mr. Larson, 38, the former Iowa Republican Party chairman and an Army Reserve major who served for 12 months in Iraq, drew particular attention because of his knowledge of Iowa politics, and because he worked as a co-chairman in the state for Mr. Bush. Mr. Larson said Mr. McCain’s support for the war was one of the key issues that sold him on a McCain candidacy.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/25/washington/25campaign.html?hp&ex=1156564800&en=bf30a7f900ada28a&ei=5094&partner=homepage) Company

FORD
08-27-2006, 11:53 AM
One thing to watch is where they decide on the location for the 2008 convention.

It's down to three finalists. Howard Dean wanted New Orleans, but there was no way to guarantee that the city would be ready for an event of that magnitude, given the snail's pace "recovery" taking place.

So that leaves Denver, Minneapolis, and NYC.

If it's NYC, that is very bad news.

They picked Boston for the 2004 convention. Think about it........

BigBadBrian
08-27-2006, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by FORD


If Gore decides he wants the job, it's his and anyone claiming to be a "Democrat" who says otherwise is a damn fool to stand in his way.


Howard Dean? He said he wouldn't run if he were DNC chair. But if it comes down to him being able to do more good for the country than the party, that can always be changed.



Gore and Dean are Socialist morons. You're better off with Hillary.

I could support a ticket with Warner on it. He wasn't a bad Governor.

I've always kinda like Joe Biden. I could maybe support him. Maybe.

I like Bill Richardson.

I voted for Wes Clark in the last Dem primary here. 'Nuff said on that.

:cool:

BigBadBrian
08-27-2006, 02:28 PM
Warner/Clark vs. McCain/Romney

FORD
08-27-2006, 02:32 PM
As if McCain or Romney has a snowballs chance in Hell of being nominated??

LoungeMachine
08-27-2006, 05:04 PM
Let us not forget Ms. Rodham is born and bred Republican.


Biden is too intelligent to be elected these days, PNAC signature not withstanding....

Romney is an empty suit at best....


May as well root for WarBOT's boy Allen.

LMAO

DEMON CUNT
08-27-2006, 09:24 PM
Have you noticed that the longer BBB's signature gets the more liberal he sounds?

Nitro Express
08-28-2006, 01:42 AM
We need another Clinton as president as much as we need another Bush. The Clintons are corrupt proffesional politicians as much as the Bush family are. Sure they have done less damage to the country than the Bush family but Bill Clinton was financed by Bilderberg money and passed NAFTA to please his campaign financers.

The Republican Party has been a tottal backstab. They have fucked over their own voters more than the Democrats would have.

We need a moderate Democratic president next who isn't a dumb ass and halfway honest. I have no idea who that would be. Shit, Al Gore is not my favorite candidate but he would have fucked the country less than Bushco. I don't think he's going to run.

The Democrats have the same problem as the Republicans, theres nobody good running. Voting nowadays is like trying to decide which ugly girl you want to take hoime. LOL!