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Nickdfresh
09-04-2006, 08:31 PM
Getting out of Iraq won't be simple

9/4/2006

By GEORGE F.WILL

Late in the 1952 election campaign, he promised that he would "go to Korea." So in late November, Dwight Eisenhower and aides "used light planes to fly along the front": "Except for sporadic artillery fire and sniping, there was little action at the moment, but in view of the strength of the positions the enemy had developed, it was obvious that any frontal attack would present great difficulties."

With that assessment, recalled in his 1963 memoirs, the experienced soldier decided to liquidate the war. He had seen at a glance that continuing it was not worth the costs.

George W. Bush might yet face an "Eisenhower moment" regarding Iraq. But not yet, in the opinion of John Warner, the five-term Virginia Republican who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Warner's father was a field surgeon in World War I; his great-uncle lost an arm fighting for the Confederacy. Warner joined the Navy in 1944 at 17, served until 1946, then was called up to the Marine Corps during Korea. Because he is a military man who broadly construes the president's inherent powers as commander in chief, it was startling when he recently said that the Oct. 11, 2002, resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq did so for purposes that were largely achieved by the removal of Saddam Hussein.

Last month Warner asked: "What is the mission of the United States today under this resolution if (Iraq) erupts into a civil war? . . . I think we have to examine very carefully what Congress authorized the president to do in the context of a situation if we're faced with all-out civil war and whether we have to come back to the Congress to get further indication of support."

Warner says he is convinced that the essential characteristics of civil war are not yet present in Iraq. Iraq's government, he says, is "functioning," the security forces are improving, and senior military officials are not plotting against the government.

But Warner also knows: The Iraqi government's writ barely runs beyond Baghdad's Green Zone. The security forces are not yet competent to hold areas that U.S. forces clear of insurgents. Holding such areas might require more U.S. forces in Iraq, which would further alienate the Iraqis. Moqtada al-Sadr, whose support helped make Nouri al-Maliki Iraq's prime minister, has a militia that is becoming Iraq's Hezbollah - a sovereign force within the state, and one imperfectly controlled.

Eisenhower's challenge in ending the Korean War was simpler than Bush's problem in extracting U.S. forces from Iraq: Eisenhower had a static military front. The U.S. objective of pushing the invaders from South Korea had been accomplished. And Eisenhower had a coercive threat.

In "The Cold War: A New History," John Lewis Gaddis of Yale, who calls Eisenhower "at once the most subtle and brutal strategist of the nuclear age," says that Eisenhower early in his presidency believed - he later changed his mind - that when nuclear weapons "can be used on strictly military targets and for strictly military purposes," they should be used, "exactly as you would use a bullet or anything else." And Eisenhower allowed America's adversaries to know that his military advisers were seeking ways to use such weapons to end the Korean fighting.

Warner believes that most congressional Democrats understand that there is an unpopular way to oppose an unpopular war - by voting for abandonment of all the objectives for which blood has been shed. Warner defines the U.S. objective in Iraq not in terms of a glittering achievement, democracy, but as avoiding something appalling - the Iraqi oil fields in jihadists' hands. Regarding Iraq, there will not soon be an Eisenhower moment.


Washington Post Writers Group (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060904/1019396.asp)

LoungeMachine
09-04-2006, 11:06 PM
They'll leave the war, deficits, SS, and immigration for the next administration....

They will have accomplished nothing.


Nothing positive, that is.

BigBadBrian
09-05-2006, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by LoungeMachine
They'll leave the war, deficits, SS, and immigration for the next administration....

They will have accomplished nothing.


Nothing positive, that is.

Just like all the previous administrations in the last 40 years.

BigBadBrian
09-05-2006, 07:23 AM
LardMachine, I think you had better close or move this thread to the dump.

Nick posted it without offering any debate himself. (I'm not surprised there :D )

Isn't that what you're always whining to me about?

Or are you a hypocrite like we all know you are?

DEMON CUNT
09-05-2006, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian (R - Really Stupid)
LardMachine, I think you had better close or move this thread to the dump.

Nick posted it without offering any debate himself. (I'm not surprised there :D )


Debate or anal dildo? It's all the same for BigBlandBrian!

http://www.bionictonic.co.uk/shops/products/543/classic_butt_plug_small_200x200.jpg

Nickdfresh
09-05-2006, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
LardMachine, I think you had better close or move this thread to the dump.

Nick posted it without offering any debate himself. (I'm not surprised there :D )

Isn't that what you're always whining to me about?

Or are you a hypocrite like we all know you are?

No, actually, it's the fact that op-ed spam is all you offer, like today's giant partisan BushEEP rant.

BigBadBrian
09-05-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
No, actually, it's the fact that op-ed spam is all you offer, like today's giant partisan BushEEP rant.

And you post stupid little news articles that we all can read on the web by ourselves...and you offer no debate to go with them.

It's the same thing, Nick.

Back in the "good days" of the Frontline, op-eds provided many good threads, as did news articles.

You and Lard just handle having someone post a viewpoint that goes against what you believe. Probably because you don't have enough facts to back them up with.

:gulp:

Nickdfresh
09-05-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
And you post stupid little news articles that we all can read on the web by ourselves...and you offer no debate to go with them.

It's the same thing, Nick.

No, no it isn't. I offer facts from which to derive opinion, conclusions, and to begin a discussion; whilst you offer premeditated bullshit straight from the GOP talking points division.


Back in the "good days" of the Frontline, op-eds provided many good threads, as did news articles.

LOL What good old days? When Sesh or Ford would get swarmed by mostly know-nothing jackoffs?


You and Lard just handle having someone post a viewpoint that goes against what you believe. Probably because you don't have enough facts to back them up with.

:gulp:

No. I reject the the partisan bullshit which apologises for the current regime and blames Democrats, the party out of power now for over six years, for all the nations problems without the slightest basis in fact. Let's just cite you lameass pathetic shit you've posted today.


By some mindless jackoff named Michael P. Tremoglie

"Another smear campaign/conspiracy theory/myth about the Bush administration has been pretty much debunked. For three years now, Joe Wilson, Democrats, communists and the liberal media have been saying that Karl Rove should be indicted and imprisoned for revealing the name of a CIA operative in order to discredit Wilson."


Yeah Brie, you're really in touch and have your hand on the pulse of America. LMFAO!

Warham
09-05-2006, 06:15 PM
We've always known Joseph Wilson was a liar. What's the news?

DEMON CUNT
09-05-2006, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You and Lard just handle having someone post a viewpoint that goes against what you believe. Probably because you don't have enough facts to back them up with.

What the fuck? HA HA!

BBB, I urge you to proof read your posts before you hit the Submit Reply button.

DEMON CUNT
09-05-2006, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Warham
We've always known Joseph Wilson was a liar. What's the news?

Sounds simple enough!

So Warhead, tell us, what do Karl Rove's balls taste like?