Study: 655,000 Iraqis Died Due to War

[Little Texan]

Study: 655,000 Iraqis Died Due to War

By MALCOLM RITTER AP Science Writer

NEW YORK Oct 10, 2006 (AP)— A controversial new study contends nearly 655,000 Iraqis have died because of the war, suggesting a far higher death toll than other estimates.

The timing of the survey's release, just a few weeks before the U.S. congressional elections, led one expert to call it "politics."

In the new study, researchers attempt to calculate how many more Iraqis have died since March 2003 than one would expect without the war. Their conclusion, based on interviews of households and not a body count, is that about 600,000 died from violence, mostly gunfire. They also found a small increase in deaths from other causes like heart disease and cancer.

"Deaths are occurring in Iraq now at a rate more than three times that from before the invasion of March 2003," Dr. Gilbert Burnham, lead author of the study, said in a statement.

The study by Burnham, of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, and others is to be published Thursday on the Web site of The Lancet, a medical journal.

An accurate count of Iraqi deaths has been difficult to obtain, but one respected group puts its rough estimate at closer to 50,000. And at least one expert was skeptical of the new findings.

"They're almost certainly way too high," said Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic & International Studies in Washington. He criticized the way the estimate was derived and noted that the results were released shortly before the Nov. 7 election.

"This is not analysis, this is politics," Cordesman said.

The work updates an earlier Johns Hopkins study that one was released just before the November 2005 presidential election. At the time, the lead researcher, Les Roberts of Hopkins, said the timing was deliberate. Many of the same researchers were involved in the latest estimate.

Speaking of the new study, Burnham said the estimate was much higher than others because it was derived from a house-to-house survey rather than approaches that depend on body counts or media reports.

A private group called Iraqi Body Count, for example, says it has recorded about 44,000 to 49,000 civilian Iraqi deaths. But it notes that those totals are based on media reports, which it says probably overlook "many if not most civilian casualties."

For Burnham's study, researchers gathered data from a sample of 1,849 Iraqi households with a total of 12,801 residents from late May to early July. That sample was used to extrapolate the total figure. The estimate deals with deaths up to July.

The survey participants attributed about 31 percent of violent deaths to coalition forces.

Accurate death tolls have been difficult to obtain ever since the Iraq conflict began in March 2003. When top Iraqi political officials cite death numbers, they often refuse to say where the numbers came from.

The Health Ministry, which tallies civilian deaths, relies on reports from government hospitals and morgues. The Interior Ministry compiles its figures from police stations, while the Defense Ministry reports deaths only among army soldiers and insurgents killed in combat.

The United Nations keeps its own count, based largely on reports from the Baghdad morgue and the Health Ministry.

The major funder of the new study was the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Link (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2551994&page=2)

[ELVIS]

655,000 ??

No friggin' way...:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
655,000 ??

No friggin' way...:rolleyes:


How the FUCK would you know?


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


And just for argument's sake, what if they're off by 500,000????

That would meant 155,000.......more than 5 times as many as Chimpy said there was.....

And more than died in Hiroshima.



"no friggin way'????

Fuck you, asshole.

Just plain fuck you.:mad:

[ELVIS]

Just plain FUCK YOU, Mr big shot...

You're a fuckin' dick head...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Just plain FUCK YOU, Mr big shot...

You're a fuckin' dick head...


Love those Christian Values


LMAO

fucking drunk:D


Do you even care about the loss of human life when it involves people who look and pray differently than your cracker ass?

:rolleyes:

[LoungeMachine]

And again, Mr. Christian.....

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF THESE NUMBERS ARE CORRECT OR NOT?


moron

[ELVIS]

I don't know what the exact numbers are and neither do you, but based on LOOKING IT THE FUCK UP, I believe its considerably less...

Now, shut the fuck up for a change...

[DrMaddVibe]

Either all of our guys are one hell of a shot or we picked up a lot of IED kills to our tally?

Don't you find body counts passé?

[Ellyllions]

Do these numbers also include Iraqi to Iraqi violence?

Wonder what the statistics were before the war started?

[ELVIS]

Apparently, the numbers include everything from the enemy (which to liberals, just don't exist) to Iraqi to Iraqi violence, to even death from natural causes, heart attacks and cancer...

[Ellyllions]

But the headline reads, "Due to war"....( just a smidgen of spin perhaps?)

Not to sound cold, but when you have nothing to which to compare the numbers of a people/area who have essentially been at war for 2,000 years....ya can't put a lot of stock into any numbers. As far as I'm concerned....

Ya'll do know that 80% of all statistics are made up, right?

I'm not discounting that there have been too many deaths OVERALL in this war. But war isn't exactly a covered dish social or a clam bake ya know.

Just give reverence to those who have died and hope that even after this war is over, they'll stop killing amonst themselves.

[ELVIS]

They won't, and I admit the Iraq war is a quagmire...

But the idea of a stabilized government in Iraq isn't out of the realm of possibility and it's now the only thing we have to shoot for...

What's the alternative ??

[Ellyllions]

There is no alternative at this point.

We have no choice but to try. But I won't submit that the violence there has been all our fault. I won't because they have a long history of violence. The Iraq/Iran war went on for 10 years. I can see this one lasting that long and still we'll leave without a firm resolution.

I also believe that our presence there has been the root cause of Iran working so hard to get attention. I don't think it has anything to do with what we've done right or wrong, but that the leaders of Iran wants a piece of the pie.

I think it's conditioning. It's all they've ever known.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
But I won't submit that the violence there has been all our fault.

I agree 100%

Thank you...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Either all of our guys are one hell of a shot or we picked up a lot of IED kills to our tally?

Don't you find body counts passé?

Do you find sending people to their death to CYA the ass of the monkey you voted for passe yet, Internet jackoff?

BTW Ms.AnalVibrator, why is it that attacks keep going up and up and the war is more fucked than ever?

Yet, just like a WWI French or British reactionary-sot general trying to cover up their incompetence -- you'll just "cheer for" sending the boys (and girls) "over the top" to die senselessly when it clearly isn't working, and we're effectively fighting on the side or death squads and friendship with Iran.

Oh, and then there's Afghanistan...:rolleyes:

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Do you find sending people to their death to CYA the ass of the monkey you voted for passe yet, Internet jackoff?


No, but in your case I'd say yes.:cool:

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Apparently, the numbers include everything from the enemy (which to liberals, just don't exist) to Iraqi to Iraqi violence, to even death from natural causes, heart attacks and cancer...

If the cancer can be directly linked to depleted uranium, than that's not "natural causes".

And if a heart attack is caused by armed marines busting into your house at 3:00 in the morning, same thing.

As far as "Iraqi to Iraqi violence", was that violence happening when Saddam was in charge?

In most cases, the answer would be "no". Which means they are dead because of the BCE/PNAC illegal invasion and occupation.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
They won't, and I admit the Iraq war is a quagmire...

But the idea of a stabilized government in Iraq isn't out of the realm of possibility and it's now the only thing we have to shoot for...

What's the alternative ??

They had a stabilized government. Yeah, the guy was an asshole, but the country was stable.

The "alternative" was not to invade in the first fucking place. Now you have a civil war with 2/3 of a million people dead in three years. The BCE is making Saddam look good by comparison.

[Ellyllions]

Iraq stable before war? Does not compute.

Iraqi vs. Iraqi violence before we went in was alive and well. Only it was the people's own government and troops committing the violence on the Iraqi people.

But that's ok?

[DLR'sCock]

Well let's just say that the numbers are now in between the scientific Study and the body count...


So somewhere in between 150,000 and 650,000 dead because the Bush Administration decided a long time ago(pre 9-11) to invade Iraq and change the Government casue they didn't like them and they just happen to be sitting on the second largest supply of oil in the world.



For you people who claim you believe in God and are good christians etc etc blah blah blah, you really need to think about what you support and wish for, cause if what you believe is true, then you're in trouble....


Every number counts every death, you are another person directly responsible by supporting this, so you might as well be holding the gun....what's the difference, some bullshit justification to hide from the truth?


yeah....

[Steve Savicki]

655,000 Iraqis... now what about Americans? :(

[bastardog]

so Saddam is been judget in court for haveing a stabilized goverment...

and by the way will someone explain whats that of "Ms.analvibrator"?
Elly?

[Ellyllions]

Elly?
I didn't know what that was supposed to mean earlier. My anus has a flashing neon sign on it that says "EXIT ONLY".

I never even suspected that it was aimed at me. LOL!

[Ellyllions]

...hmmm I wonder how God feels about his spawn using the word Cock to identify themselves?.....

[bastardog]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Elly?
I didn't know what that was supposed to mean earlier. My anus has a flashing neon sign on it that says "EXIT ONLY".

I never even suspected that it was aimed at me. LOL!

I just assumed it was for you.....but I'm compleatly lost on that :confused:

Nick, who is Ms.analvibrator?

[ELVIS]

My guess is he doesn't like it...

[bastardog]

and what He felt when requested to kill the habitants of the "promissed land" (well, just Goliat was killed but still a death)

[bastardog]

or when killed the Sodoma and Gomorra habitants.....

my point.........in the Bible there is death and destruction too.....and still is the word of God....
whats the point if in the world it is still the same death and destruction..

[DLR'sCock]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
...hmmm I wonder how God feels about his spawn using the word Cock to identify themselves?.....


having a sense of humor, and promoting and supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands people are two thing that are quite different....to say the least.....

let me ask, "HEY GOD, HOW DO FEEL ABOUT ME USING THE WORD COCK IN MY USERNAME, YOU KNOW FUNNY, SENSE OF HUMOR, HAHA,......


let me know when you can....thanks bro!!"

cont.

if you think that there is any comparison then you are well either deeply, and if that was trying to be funny, it was well, weak..........next....



...my statement was made in reference of what is supposedly taught and "believed" by "Christians"....

[DLR'sCock]

you fucking lunatics will do and say anything to justify your lacking in understanding anything.....just like the nut job al qaeda types.....

you're just a bunch of low level sheep, egotiistical, and self serving.....ants....

pathetic...but hey, you don't know any better...


why bother...it's like trying to reason with a dog or a goat.....an insult to dogs and goats....

go ahead and chase your tail for another 50,000 years....

[ELVIS]

Touchy touchy...:rolleyes:

[bastardog]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
you fucking lunatics will do and say anything to justify your lacking in understanding anything.....just like the nut job al qaeda types.....

you're just a bunch of low level sheep, egotiistical, and self serving.....ants....

pathetic...but hey, you don't know any better...


why bother...it's like trying to reason with a dog or a goat.....an insult to dogs and goats....

go ahead and chase your tail for another 50,000 years....
Lets say we are all that...
then, what you are?....a person destined to be followed?.... a queen ant? a person that understand everything?

[Ellyllions]

Was that fun for you, kitten?
Telling all the meanie, meannerers off...yes, yer a big little cock aren'tcha. You sure told me.

[Ellyllions]

btw, I am NOT your damn bro.

[ELVIS]

Yeah, he's scary, eh ??

[DLR'sCock]

nope don't give a crap....you're just disillusioned or looking for your own kick in thinking you're "showing me".........the wit isn't there yet....keep going.....feeling better is not the point ever.........mean meaners? hmmmm no....cold supporters of murder of innocents, that's all...apparently....hey go ahead......maybe you're just typical trolls.......with nothing valid to add....really you're right though......your life is your life and I can't change you or anyone else.....maybe you'll learn, maybe not.......it's not for me to say I guess...........but a spade is a spade.....

advocation of death and murder....hmmmmm

typical human....happy trails....

and no i don't understand everything, I know that I know very little or nothing.......but I do try....., but I do make the attempt to learn....nor would i ever ask anyone to follow me.........it's not about following others.........but your ego must feel pretty good right now.....

arrogance......

[Ellyllions]

I accept your apology.

[DLR'sCock]

whatever makes you happy......bro.....


hmmm you can smell it though.........

[Ellyllions]

What the Rock is cookin? LOL

(I'm willingly falling for this.)

[Nickdfresh]

You really seem like a clueless, bubble-headed child with posts this thread...

[ELVIS]

Man, you and Loungedick are just the same (except you try to copy FORD), miserable...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Man, you and Loungedick are just the same (except you try to copy FORD), miserable...

Yeah Elfish, I'll take the Ford comparison a complement. Maybe you can try to provide examples of how I "mimic" Ford? By knowing what I'm talking about?

Actually, you and Xanax-girl sound like two teens in a chatroom in this thread.

[Ellyllions]

Is this another random insult generator?
I have no idea who's talking to whom anymore. LOL!

You guys are just too much fun.

[Nickdfresh]

I know, it goes right over your pretty little head.

[Ellyllions]

and I can live with that!

LOL!

[DrMaddVibe]

So can Nikki!

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Actually, you and Xanax-girl sound like two teens in a chatroom in this thread.

I wouldn't know, I don't hang out in teen chatrooms...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
So can Nikki!

Is he a singer on American Idol?

[Ellyllions]

Oh, Xanax girl...that's ME right?

mkay, now I've got that figured out...

Poor Nick. We're you feeling left out punkin'?
Won't nobody fuss with you anywhere else?

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Is he a singer on American Idol?

No...its a "she"...http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40719

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Poor Nick. We're you feeling left out punkin'?
Won't nobody fuss with you anywhere else?


Ever see that one kid at the beach that has a stick in his hand and keeps poking at the beached jellyfish?


Nikki is the jellyfish.



She kinda gets old, but the song is always the same.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Ever see that one kid at the beach that has a stick in his hand and keeps poking at the beached jellyfish?


Nikki is the jellyfish.

But I thought she was a singer on American Idol that makes your panties wet?


She kinda gets old, but the song is always the same.

And your posts are kind of pointless, and devoid on realism and knowledge...

[thome]

Study: 655,000 Iraqis Died Due to War


Martyr...
1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : VICTIM; especially : a great or constant sufferer


Results so far : 50,435,000 Virgins wake up in martyr heaven with sore pussies.

Women always suffer the most.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
...hmmm I wonder how God feels about his spawn using the word Cock to identify themselves?.....

He's not crazy about it. But he feels a lot worse about over half a million of His children dying for the lies and greed of the Son of Bush and those with him.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock

let me ask, "HEY GOD, HOW DO FEEL ABOUT ME USING THE WORD COCK IN MY USERNAME, YOU KNOW FUNNY, SENSE OF HUMOR, HAHA,......


let me know when you can....thanks bro!!"



Thomas, do you really think you need to ask that question?

Though as I said, far worse things are being excused in this very discussion. 655,000 Iraqis are dead for no reason, and half of the Iraqi population are children.

Who among you wants to stand before Me and My Dad and defend the murders of 300,000 children?

[ELVIS]

Sin is sin and repentance is repentance...

I don't imagine there being varying levels of Hell, although the Bible does speak of a least in Heaven...

For instance Matthew 11:11

Most certainly I tell you, among those who are born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptizer; yet he who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by thome
Study: 655,000 Iraqis Died Due to War


Martyr...
1 : a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2 : a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3 : VICTIM; especially : a great or constant sufferer


Results so far : 50,435,000 Virgins wake up in martyr heaven with sore pussies.

Women always suffer the most.

Wow. I'm truly stunned. After 42-years of leading a banal, sheepish existence --Thome finally found out what a dictionary is for...

Hurray!

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by ELVIS
Sin is sin and repentance is repentance...

I don't imagine there being varying levels of Hell, although the Bible does speak of a least in Heaven...

For instance Matthew 11:11

Most certainly I tell you, among those who are born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptizer; yet he who is least in the Kingdom of Heaven is greater than he.

Gregory, what do My words about My cousin John the Baptist have to do with justifying the murder of 300,000 Iraqi children?

:confused:

[thome]

Some say 50,000 Dead Iraqis

Some say 500,000

Does anyone have the totals on stander -byer's who were in line for milk or to make a house payment .Durring Dirt Road IED, Martyrdom.?
maybe 500..?

Maybe 50,000.?

Did the Iraqi people participate in the free market or were they all squatters in Sadams -Kingdom of the Resurected Saladin- he, said
he was incanate of ?

Wasn't Saladin the great Muslim Warrior who drove out the Christian Crusaders in the 12th century.

Seems to me Saddam got his ass kicked by the Iralians. Then -pretty much- afterwards, declared war on his own opressed people. Thu ruining internal relations with his Intelectuals and Internationally
walling off Iraq from the rest of the whole word then blaming the crisis on the USA and Isreal to his uninformed walled up masses of sheeple.

Some great hero, some great historicaly honored man of action and betterment of the world and those who depend on him and my hat is off the his two generouse loving sons of mercy and real compliment to
the betterment of murder, rape, domination, horror, butchering of the human ,body ,soul and mind .And that was just the little girls.

Every Quote ,Statement, Prophesy ,tyraid,or General comment should
always begin with a list of these hundreds of wonderfull enjoyment
saddamism's and his martyred followers have bought to the lovey home we all share.

In reff: to my first statement above this statement. Does anyone believe ther are 500 million virgins waiting in, -this is- what i say i'm dieing for, muslim heaven.?

Does anyone think there are even 500 mil women in Heaven?

Does anyone even think there are 500 mil total good people of all races or genders that even get a chance for a oportunity to even be thought about as a possible person of the character suitable for the heaven described by most prophets..?


War is what it is and nothing about it is rite, everone of them ,can be easily avoided, but isn't .

{I will say one thing The TOP SECRET document being COVERTLY delivered to the NINJA NEWSPAPER MAN must be real.}

Woodward has a new book to sell all about the top secret private
CIA ,Bush ,Rumsfeld, conrtol manifesto he is bringing this wonderose
enightenment to the masses to save the world and set everything rite
for only 49.99$

Or it could be he needs a new Pool on his Cayman Island Estate.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Gregory, what do My words about My cousin John the Baptist have to do with justifying the murder of 300,000 Iraqi children?

:confused:

Nothing dumb ass..

Your answer is always the same... "BCE"...

I suppose in your corrupt mind, US troops are sent to commit murder...

You're an idiot...

[Jesus Christ]

Gregory, who crucified Me?

Was it the Jews, or the Romans?

And please explain thine answer.

[ELVIS]

It wasn't one particular people, FORD...

[FORD]

I don't think that was the answer He was looking for.....

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
I don't think that was the answer He was looking for.....

It's tough to answer when he's busy throwing stones at other sinners.

[FORD]

Verily.....

[ELVIS]

Who gives a shit what answer "he" was looking for...

You're looney...

[FORD]

You're a Christian, but you won't answer a question from Jesus?

[ELVIS]

You're not Jesus and I answered it...

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Ellyllions
Iraq stable before war? Does not compute.

Iraqi vs. Iraqi violence before we went in was alive and well. Only it was the people's own government and troops committing the violence on the Iraqi people.

But that's ok?

Iraq was stable before the invasion (Congress never declared "war"). There was infrastructure. There were schools, hospitals, water, electricity, postal service. It was a civilized country. Far more civilized than North Korea.

What do you think it was? Some wild jungle?

The WMD story that the Bush administration sold us couldn't have been more wrong. So I ask you why should we believe fucking anything that the Bush administration has to say about Iraq?

American law enforcement agencies kill American citizens all the time.

To listen to you conservatives scoff at the loss of life is very disappointing.

The great American ego clouds your judgement and your compassion.

[ELVIS]

No, compassion clouds your judgement...

You understimate us conservatives...

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by ELVIS
No, compassion clouds your judgement...

You understimate us conservatives...

I know you are but what am i?

No need to underestimate you at all. Your message here is clear and couldn't be further from the message of your "saviour."

[Seshmeister]

The method for working out the deaths were the same used in places like Darfur which our governments don't argue with.

Hmmm...

It was based on a survey of 12 000 people who could show death certificates of people they knew.

Saddam apparently killed 200 000.

70% of deaths under this study were caused by invading troops.

4 people died in Ney York after a plane crash this week and the news networks have a heart attack.

[Warham]

Originally posted by DEMON CUNT
Iraq was stable before the invasion (Congress never declared "war").

The declaration for war was unnecessary.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
The declaration for war was unnecessary.

Not if you believe in the Constitution, which says only Congress can declare WAR.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by FORD
Not if you believe in the Constitution, which says only Congress can declare WAR.

Correct you are, sir.

[Warham]

Clearer than I could write it:

"The president of the United States has no clear constitutional authority to declare war without congressional approval. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has determined that the president, as commander-in-chief of the military, does have the authority to recognize a "state of war" initiated against the United States and may in these circumstances unilaterally send U.S. troops into battle. President Bush has also stated that his powers as commander-in-chief allow him to act independently in defense of the nation.

The president did not seek a formal declaration of war from Congress. But he did seek congressional support, he said, to demonstrate to the United Nations and to the world that military action against Iraq was not just his own objective; it was a view supported by the American electorate as a whole. Strategically, support from the legislators bolstered the president's case as he pressed the UN Security Council for a resolution authorizing military force in Iraq."

http://ca.encarta.msn.com/guide_whocandeclarewar/Who_Can_Declare_War_Backgrounder_and_Research_Guid e.html

[Warham]

Congress hasn't declared war since 1941, but that didn't stop Harry Truman or John Kennedy or George H.W. Bush. I could go on and on.

[FORD]

That doesn't make it constitutional. But then Korea and Vietnam were labeled "police actions" rather than wars.

And Poppy, like his son, considers the Constitution nothing more than a "goddamned piece of paper".

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
That doesn't make it constitutional. But then Korea and Vietnam were labeled "police actions" rather than wars.

And Poppy, like his son, considers the Constitution nothing more than a "goddamned piece of paper".

Until I hear that on actual audio, I won't believe he ever said it. I'm not going to take some hack reporter's word for it.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
Clearer than I could write it:

"The president of the United States has no clear constitutional authority to declare war without congressional approval. However, the U.S. Supreme Court has determined that the president, as commander-in-chief of the military, does have the authority to recognize a "state of war" initiated against the United States and may in these circumstances unilaterally send U.S. troops into battle. President Bush has also stated that his powers as commander-in-chief allow him to act independently in defense of the nation.

An incredible responsibility. One you or I would hardly trust Hillary with.

There was no "state of war" initiated against the United States" in relation to Iraq.

There is no need to defend the nation against weapons that do not exist.


The president did not seek a formal declaration of war from Congress. But he did seek congressional support, he said, to demonstrate to the United Nations and to the world that military action against Iraq was not just his own objective; it was a view supported by the American electorate as a whole. Strategically, support from the legislators bolstered the president's case as he pressed the UN Security Council for a resolution authorizing military force in Iraq."

Manipulation, cooked intelligence and the exploitation of the victims of 911 was not a show for the UN (which you neocon despise) but legal maneuvering to justify an illegal invasion of a country that posed no threat to us whatsoever.

No WMD, no threat, lot's of delicious oil.

Bush's largest contributors reap unbelievable profits.

And still you scramble to justify Bush's actions. Good neocon.

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[Warham]

I trust Presidents to make those decisions, Cunt. That's why voting is important. If Hillary wanted to invade North Korea, I'd be behind the bitch 110%.

Apparently, you like voting for people you don't trust. That's your problem.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
The declaration for war was unnecessary.

So was the invasion, so was Vietnam. Do they even teach the War Powers Act anymore? Oh yeah, you're an America hater if the President commit American troops to an invasion, and Congress (of exuberantly bending over Republicans) refuses to fund it.

BTW, the resolution that gave Bush the power to launch the War merely gave him the OPTION to do so as a LAST RESORT! People like to forget that...

BTW, I didn't have to cut-'n-paste or Google any of that...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by FORD
That doesn't make it constitutional. But then Korea and Vietnam were labeled "police actions" rather than wars.

And Poppy, like his son, considers the Constitution nothing more than a "goddamned piece of paper".

And Eisenhower was the one that got us into Vietnam after cancelling a UN sanctioned democratic election in favor of corrupt South Vietnamese warlords, not JFK. Another fact Neocons like Warham like to forget in their propaganda. or is it that they never actually research WTF they're talking about, or cherry-pick selectively amongst history parallels?

And North Korea invaded South Korea, and the War was under the auspices of the UN and had clear and active support of the non-Communist world.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Until I hear that on actual audio, I won't believe he ever said it. I'm not going to take some hack reporter's word for it.

Meanwhile, you suck in every lie in ever told about Clinton by the "Arkansas Project" fraud.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
BTW, the resolution that gave Bush the power to launch the War merely gave him the OPTION to do so as a LAST RESORT! People like to forget that...


What if I told you it was the LAST option? And who's forgetting that?

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Meanwhile, you suck in every lie in ever told about Clinton by the "Arkansas Project" fraud.

No, I got enough lies out of the Lewinsky scandal. I don't need to go back any farther.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
And Eisenhower was the one that got us into Vietnam after cancelling a UN sanctioned democratic election in favor of corrupt South Vietnamese warlords, not JFK.

Yeah, so what? Who sent 56,000 troops to die over there? I don't remember it being a Republican.

I know, I know, it doesn't fit easily into your 'evil neocon' formula, but I'm sure you can wedge it in there somehow.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Oh yeah, you're an America hater if the President commit American troops to an invasion, and Congress (of exuberantly bending over Republicans) refuses to fund it.

You obviously aren't talking about this war, because Congress just passed more funding, and Democrats went along with it!

And where do you get the idea that Republicans have been bending over for Bush? They've been positioning themselves away from him for the last two years.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
What if I told you it was the LAST option? And who's forgetting that?

LOL@the sheeple...

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
I trust Presidents to make those decisions, Cunt. That's why voting is important. If Hillary wanted to invade North Korea, I'd be behind the bitch 110%.

Apparently, you like voting for people you don't trust. That's your problem.

I don't trust Presidents with that decision nor did our founding fathers. Checks and balances are essential in free societies. Ask the six million Jews who were victims of rather famous a fear driven fascist movement. The Bush administration has systematically picked away at the balance of power in America and you support it.

When GW was sworn in (http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/pihtml/pioaths.html) as president he swore to uphold the Constitution. By neutering Habeas Corpus (http://www.constitution.org/eng/habcorpa.htm) he in fact took another step toward rendering the document invalid. This is one of the worst things a President can do. It is treason and you support it without question.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, so what? Who sent 56,000 troops to die over there? I don't remember it being a Republican.

I never said it was, did I? Yet another mentally defective rewriting of one of my posts. Vietnam was actually a bipartisan fuck up of the highest order. All I've ever said was that the whole "JFK got us into 'Nam" thesis was bullshit and way too overly simplistic. Again, you cherry-pick the critical facts that serve your paradigm whilst ignoring that America's involvement in 'Nam began long before JFK. Again, I've criticized LBJ on this board, but you choose to ignore that and create the most awkward or unsustainable partisan slant in every post.


I know, I know, it doesn't fit easily into your 'evil neocon' formula, but I'm sure you can wedge it in there somehow.

As opposed to your typical "liberals are flamers and suck, and and and liberals suck." Whatever dude, I think I posted recently that Democrats have involved America in most of its wars this century. But you'll choose to ignore that since it doesn't fit into your selective temporary amorphous thesis of "liberals are stupid warmongers like President Bush is!" Well dude, that sort of contradicts your own stated "liberals are pussy-wimps that help terrorists!" So which is it you ass?: that liberals are "spineless weaklings that ignore terrorism" or "liberals are closet war lover-interventionists posing as do-gooders that got us into Korea, 'Nam, WWII, WWI, the Cold War???"

Nice contradiction BTW...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I never said it was, did I? Yet another mentally defective rewriting of one of my posts. Vietnam was actually a bipartisan fuck up of the highest order. All I've ever said was that the whole "JFK got us into 'Nam" thesis was bullshit and way too overly simplistic. Again, you cherry-pick the critical facts that serve your paradigm whilst ignoring that America's involvement in 'Nam began long before JFK. Again, I've criticized LBJ on this board, but you choose to ignore that and create the most awkward or unsustainable partisan slant in every post.



As opposed to your typical "liberals are flamers and suck, and and and liberals suck." Whatever dude, I think I posted recently that Democrats have involved America in most of its wars this century. But you'll choose to ignore that since it doesn't fit into your selective temporary amorphous thesis of "liberals are stupid warmongers like President Bush is!" Well dude, that sort of contradicts your own stated "liberals are pussy-wimps that help terrorists!" So which is it you ass?: that liberals are "spineless weaklings that ignore terrorism" or "liberals are closet war lover-interventionists posing as do-gooders that got us into Korea, 'Nam, WWII, WWI, the Cold War???"

Nice contradiction BTW...


Excellent, Nick
:D

[Warham]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
"liberals are flamers and suck, and and and liberals suck."

I'm glad you've finally come around.

[DEMON CUNT]

Originally posted by Warham
I'm glad you've finally come around.

This is another example of Warhead completely avoiding the heart of the argument.