View Full Version : bush / extreme regime
franksters
10-11-2006, 11:32 PM
So many time I heard george w. bush answer some journalist or reporter that the reason the u.s.a. went to koweit, afghanistan, irak ect... was to help the people and to liberate them from the dictature of a totalirian regime and also because they might have nuclear power.
My question is:
Is he afraid of north corea, or maybe simply because there is no oil overthere, that the U.S.A. will only apply some dumb sanction instead of the usual bully way of taking over a country and their national resources at the same time?
ELVIS
10-11-2006, 11:35 PM
koweit, irak and corea ???
The PNAC agenda called for the invasion of Iraq for two reasons.
Oil was the obvious one. The other one was it's central location for launching other invasions throughout the Middle East and Asia.
North Korea has no natural resources worth stealing, and China's not about to tolerate any military bases being built there. So BCE/PNAC has nothing to gain by invading North Korea.
franksters
10-11-2006, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by FORD
The PNAC agenda called for the invasion of Iraq for two reasons.
Oil was the obvious one. The other one was it's central location for launching other invasions throughout the Middle East and Asia.
North Korea has no natural resources worth stealing, and China's not about to tolerate any military bases being built there. So BCE/PNAC has nothing to gain by invading North Korea.
Thank you for your quick answer, so if I understand properly no one cares about the people who lives under this regime?
I could've sworn I heard bush mentionned (on many occasions) that they would invade a country in order to liberate the people from dictature so democracy could prevail over these types of regime.
Plus North Korea has a large army...
Dr. Love
10-12-2006, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by franksters
Thank you for your quick answer, so if I understand properly no one cares about the people who lives under this regime?
I could've sworn I heard bush mentionned (on many occasions) that they would invade a country in order to liberate the people from dictature so democracy could prevail over these types of regime.
I don't see why we should be the only ones to do this? What is preventing other countries in the world from stepping in and dealing with it?
Dr. Love
10-12-2006, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by ELVIS
koweit, irak and corea ???
Don't heckle someone for trying to post in English. At least he's making the effort. If you prefer, I can tell him to post it in espanol.
Of course, I'm presuming english isn't his primary language.
Nickdfresh
10-12-2006, 06:16 AM
He's a Francophone (French) Canadian.
And Bush always hated Korea, since we were sending them fuel-oil for free! Bush won't even give Americans a break on home heating oil, I mean that would interfere with the record smashing profits of his biggest campaign cuntributors...
franksters
10-12-2006, 07:55 AM
Elvis, holy shit, are you that anal or you're just permanently constipated?
ULTRAMAN VH
10-12-2006, 08:05 AM
Our military is spread pretty thin right now and I don't think picking a fight with North Korea would be wise at this time. It is obvious why the President is calling on China and Japan to work on this one. What amazes me is that N.Korea can't even feed their population, yet they have money to test nuclear weapons? Glad they have their priorities straight.
franksters
10-12-2006, 08:12 AM
Do you really think China and Japan will do anything about this?
LoungeMachine
10-12-2006, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Love
Don't heckle someone for trying to post in English. At least he's making the effort. If you prefer, I can tell him to post it in espanol.
Of course, I'm presuming english isn't his primary language.
ELVIS is the typical "Ugly American" cracker....
A zenophobic bigot
:rolleyes:
LoungeMachine
10-12-2006, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by Dr. Love
I don't see why we should be the only ones to do this? What is preventing other countries in the world from stepping in and dealing with it?
Yeah, Rummy should put a Coalition of the Willing together with Myanmar, Tongo, and night janitor of the Manila Holiday Inn Express
LoungeMachine
10-12-2006, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
Our military is spread pretty thin right now and I don't think picking a fight with North Korea would be wise at this time.
As if there's ever a "good time" to "pick a fight" with a wack job like Il????
And why is our military "spread so thin" right now?
Originally posted by franksters
Do you really think China and Japan will do anything about this?
China trades with Japan through a North Korean port.
If Japan puts a ban on materials coming from North Korea then China would be upset...and expected to put the pressure on North Korea to stop.
Originally posted by Dr. Love
I don't see why we should be the only ones to do this? What is preventing other countries in the world from stepping in and dealing with it?
Nothing...
If things go bad for South Korea it could get very bad.
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=707e01f7-414d-4bea-9b6b-9d7f99c194c5&k=74339
Canada retains a Korean War legacy: a pledge to defend South Korea
John Ward
Canadian Press
Thursday, October 12, 2006
OTTAWA (CP) - As a nuclear crisis brews on the Korean peninsula, few Canadians know that Canada retains a legacy from two generations ago: a pledge to defend South Korea.
It's a remnant of another Korean crisis five decades ago, which drew Canada into a bitter war, cost 10 times the casualties recorded so far in Afghanistan and produced a Canadian promise to return if necessary. "We still have a commitment to South Korea," says Jim Fergusson, director of the Centre for Defence and Security Studies at the University of Manitoba.
"When the war wound down and the Panmunjon agreement was signed, Canada along with the other UN countries that had participated committed to the defence of South Korea.
"There's an opt-out clause in it, but technically we committed that we would come to the defence of South Korea."
Canada has never opted out of that promise.
The three-year Korean War began in June 1950, when the Russian-trained and equipped North Korean army slashed across the 38th parallel, the arbitrary boundary drawn across the peninsula at end of the Second World War.
The North, led by Kim Il Sung, father of the present-day dictator Kim Jong Il, calculated he could overrun the south before anyone could do anything about it. He was wrong.
The U.S. responded by sending troops from occupation duty in Japan to Korea. Washington also won agreement from the fledgling United Nations to send a multinational force to Korea.
Canada promised a brigade of about 3,000 soldiers.
The initial North Korean drive pushed the Americans and the remnants of the South Korean army into an enclave around the southern port of Pusan. It looked like a rout.
By mid-autumn, though, the war was turned upside-down by an American amphibious landing at Inchon, half-way up the east coast. The North Koreans were cut off and fled back across the 38th parallel, with the Americans and a few UN contingents in pursuit.
The war looked to be over when China intervened in late fall, with thousands of soldiers who drove the Americans and their allies well south of the parallel.
The first Canadians arrived in December. More followed in the spring.
Two more years of fighting followed, before peace talks at the village of Panmunjon produced a truce and a return to the pre-war boundaries.
"Through that agreement, we have some responsibility for the independence of South Korea," said David Bercuson, a historian from the University of Calgary and author of a major history of Canada's role in the war.
He said Korean had major echoes in the politics of the Cold War.
"Around the western world, especially in the NATO countries, this was seen as a direct challenge to NATO and people began to think what would the consequences be of a Communist victory in Korea," he said.
"You begin to see in in Britain, the United States, Canada and elsewhere massive increases in defence budgets because they saw Korea as a direct challenge to NATO."
Historian Jack Granatstein, in his book "Canada's Army", says the Canadian cabinet tripled the defence budget overnight in December 1950, partly in response to Korea and partly to meet NATO responsibilities. By 1953, the defence budget took seven per cent of GDP.
Fergusson finds parallels to modern-day Afghanistan.
"We came to the defence of South Korea for the same reasons we are going to the aid of Afghanistan," he said.
"We never used the terms like development or building a new nation and things like that but that's basically what we were doing then."
"Korea became a success story," said Granatstein. "From being horribly impoverished, much like Afghanistan, it turned into a giant economic power.
"Had that war not been fought, I suppose South Korea would be pretty much the same as North Korea: a dictatorship where people are literally starving and where the state spends money on nuclear weapons instead of any effort to feed its people."
Korea, though, came at a much higher cost. Four years in Afghanistan have cost the lives of 40 Canadian soldiers and a diplomat. Two and half years in Korea left 516 Canadians dead and more than 1,000 wounded.
© The Canadian Press 2006
Nickdfresh
10-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by franksters
Do you really think China and Japan will do anything about this?
Japan might "rearm." This is a misnomer, since the Japanese have been always been one of the world's biggest defense spenders, pretty well armed, and have had a solid defense industry since the 60s. The Japanese Defense Forces' doctrine is defensive in nature, as the name indicates, so they have limited offensive or counter-strike capability. But that can quickly change. And they'd be a couple of months away from having a bomb if they really wanted it.
The last thing China will want is a nuclear armed Japan...they do have enriched uranium at their disposal.
Nickdfresh
10-12-2006, 01:43 PM
And they're extremely high-tech. Maybe something we've forgotten in the past few years since not everything is "Made in Japan" anymore. But they have F-15J(apan)'s that are superior to the U.S. produced F-15C Eagles. Same airframe, same design and engine, but different avionics.
Japan also has its own, indigenous line of armored fighting vehicles that are on par with anything designed in the US or Europe. And they'd very much like to sell this stuff abroad, but can't with the restrictions in their post-WWII constitution. The new nationalist Prime Minister would like to change that.
The stupid North Korean guy may have just given them the excuse...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/12/uttm/main2084844.shtml
North Korea's Nukes Worry Japan
Barry Petersen Discusses The Effect Of North Korea's Nuclear Ambitions On Japan's Future
TOKYO, Oct. 12, 2006
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2006/10/04/image2059789g.jpg
Shinzo Abe addressing lawmakersNew Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe says it's time for his country's era of pacifism to end. (AP Photo)
Japan is the only country ever to have been hit with an atomic weapon, a collective memory that weighs heavy on Japanese minds as the North Korean nuclear standoff continues.
With North Korean now claiming to be a nuclear power, the Japanese are worried. Japan is well within range of North Korean missiles. If North Korea continues its nuclear weapons program, the Japanese know there are some tough decisions ahead — decisions that go to the very nature of what Japan is and how it must change.
First, a touch of World War II history: After Japan lost, the United States imposed a pacifist constitution that made Japan renounce the use of force. Its military — today totaling a quarter-million — is allowed for self-defense only.
Yukio Okamoto, who once advised Japan's top policymakers, tells me that North Korea’s nuclear ambitions are changing Japanese minds.
"Japanese will support strongly to beef up our defense capability," says Okamoto. "But I don’t think we will go as far as pursuing offensive weapons like missiles capable of crossing the Sea of Japan."
This was also a bit of a mind-changer; In 1998 North Korea staged a test that lobbed a missile over Japan. The Japanese know they are in the cross-hairs of a possible nuclear North.
"Because of the nuclear test, we have a greater fear of nuclear attack," one man told me. "I am scared."
All this plays into the hands of Japan's new prime minister, Shinzo Abe, who says it's time to end Japan's era of pacifism, time to beef up the military — and time to think of the day when Japan may need to launch a pre-emptive attack against North Korea to protect itself.
But Abe assured parliament that Japan would not, itself, go nuclear. For that level of defense, Japan will continue to trust in its strongest ally, the United States.
Okamoto explains that what is needed is "more strengthening of Japan's security ties with the United States, because, after all, U.S. nuclear capability is the only practical deterrence we have against North Korea."
The Japanese have a rare perspective on the world's nuclear history. Their army was notorious in World War II for its massacres and rapes. The war ended when Japan became the only country ever to become the target of an atomic bomb.
To the Japanese, nuclear war is something real, something that can scar a country forever, which is why at Hiroshima's ground zero, they say a prayer: "Never again."
By Barry Petersen ©MMVI, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Dr. Love
10-12-2006, 07:58 PM
Good for canada. Does that Japanese stuff come with a next-generation console?
DEMON CUNT
10-12-2006, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
What amazes me is that N.Korea can't even feed their population, yet they have money to test nuclear weapons? Glad they have their priorities straight.
We have very similar problems here.
franksters
10-12-2006, 09:47 PM
Maybe the world would be a better place to be if everybody mind their own business...
but greed and power is a major obstacle.
Originally posted by Dr. Love
Good for canada. Does that Japanese stuff come with a next-generation console?
No...that costs extra.
As always.
BITEYOASS
10-13-2006, 11:28 AM
More than likely China will invade North Korea since a nuclear attack by NK would be bad for business. And when that happens, they are gonna wish that the US invaded them, cause they'll probably do a cultural revolution-like puge of the NK government.
BITEYOASS
10-13-2006, 11:29 AM
Added to the fact that China's troops are not overextended and are getting more high tech unfortunately.
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