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Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 11:43 AM
Bush accepts Iraq-Vietnam echoes

Bush discusses Iraq
President George W Bush has accepted that the surge in violence in Iraq may be equivalent to America's traumatic experience in the Vietnam War.

Mr Bush told ABC News that it could be right to compare Iraq's situation to the 1968 Tet offensive, widely seen as a key turning point in the conflict.

But he denied that the rising number of Iraqi and US military deaths meant the Iraq campaign was failing.

October is on course to be one of the bloodiest months for US forces in Iraq.

So far about 70 troops have died, and with an average of three Americans dying every day this is one of the highest casualty rates sustained by the US military since January 2005.

Psychological blow

In an interview with ABC News, Mr Bush was asked if he agreed with a newspaper columnist who had written that the current fighting in Iraq may be compared to the Tet offensive in Vietnam.

TET OFFENSIVE
Launched on 31 January 1968 - Tet holiday - by North Vietnamese Army and Vietcong
Five major cities and 36 provincial capitals attacked simultaneously
Onslaught surprises US troops, is quickly repelled
US public opinion turns against the war
President Johnson's popularity falls
He withdraws as candidate for re-election in March

"He could be right," Mr Bush said. "There's certainly a stepped up level of violence and we're heading into an election."

During the Tet offensive, the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese armies launched a combined assault on US positions.

Militarily, the assault failed but it was a huge psychological blow for the Americans and their allies, and eroded political support for the then president, Lyndon Johnson.

Mr Bush appeared to suggest that steadiness of nerve could avoid a repeat of history, says the BBC's Justin Webb in Washington, although any comparison with Vietnam raises eyebrows in the US.

The White House later sought to clarify Mr Bush's comments.

"The full context was that the comparison was about the propaganda waged in the Tet Offensive...and the president was reiterating something he's said before - that the enemy is trying to shake our will," spokeswoman Dana Perino said in a statement.

In the interview, Mr Bush reiterated that US troops would stay despite the casualties.

"Al-Qaeda is still very active in Iraq...They are trying not only to kill American troops but they're trying to foment sectarian violence. They believe that if they can create enough chaos, the American people will grow sick and tired of the Iraqi effort and will cause (the) government to withdraw."

Difficult task

With the latest opinion polls suggesting that Mr Bush's Republican Party faces defeat in next month's mid-term congressional elections, the president is doing his best to fight his corner, our correspondent says.

I define success or failure as whether we're seeing a democracy grow in the heart of the Middle East
President Bush

The enemy defined success or failure by the number of casualties, Mr Bush said.

His definition was whether Iraqis could defend themselves, whether schools were being built, hospitals being opened.

"I define success or failure as whether we're seeing a democracy grow in the heart of the Middle East."

Pulling out troops from Iraq would be the equivalent of surrender, he said.

"I'm patient. I'm not patient forever...But I recognise the degree of difficulty of the task, and therefore say to the American people we won't cut and run."

Story from BBC NEWS (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/6065050.stm)

Published: 2006/10/19 10:52:20 GMT

But how would Bush know what Vietnam was like, since he avoided it by having daddy help him get in the the Texas ANG?:confused:

Warham
10-19-2006, 12:16 PM
What branch of the military did Clinton serve in? Somebody refresh my memory.

FORD
10-19-2006, 12:24 PM
But Clinton....But Clinton.....But Clinton......

Shit, how about Reagan? The mythological "warrior" who single-handedly brought down the "Evil Empire" (according to Busheep mythology) and how did he spend World War II?

Making movies with his goddamn monkey.

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/bedtime_for_dubya.jpg

Warham
10-19-2006, 12:33 PM
Well, he's making cracks about Bush not serving in 'Nam. I figured I could ask him what his favorite president did for service to our fine country.

From wikipedia: Reagan was commissioned as a reserve officer in the Army in 1935. In November 1941, Reagan was called up but disqualified for combat duty because of his astigmatism. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Lieutenant Reagan was activated and assigned to the First Motion Picture Unit in the United States Army Air Forces, which made training and education films, where his acting experience could be put to work. He remained in Hollywood for the duration of the war.

At least he did something.

Sgt Schultz
10-19-2006, 12:47 PM
TET Offensive January 30, 1968 - June 8, 1969
Approx. 45,000 Viet Cong KIA
Approx. 4,000 US KIA
Viet Cong Crushed. Major victory for US Forces.

Febrary 27, 1968 Walter Cronkite says war is now unwinnable.

Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Warham
What branch of the military did Clinton serve in? Somebody refresh my memory.

How pathetic...

Look at the Neocon "blame Clinton" for the failing War in Iraq!

BTW, when do you sign up? Even Kerry defended his "rich wife" in battle...

Warham
10-19-2006, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
How pathetic...

Look at the Neocon "blame Clinton" for the failing War in Iraq!

BTW, when do you sign up? Even Kerry defended his "rich wife" in battle...

I didn't blame Clinton for any war.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that you're making fun of Bush's national guard service while your favorite president of all-time 'served' over in England.

Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Sgt Schultz
[B]TET Offensive January 30, 1968 - June 8, 1969
Approx. 45,000 Viet Cong KIA
Approx. 4,000 US KIA
Viet Cong Crushed. Major victory for US Forces.

Look at the Neocon "cherry-pick" faulty historical parallels by using inflated and discredited "body count" to justify your chickenhawkedness and losing the two-front War on Terr-a...

BTW, the issue was that Westmorland and McNamara kept telling people that the War was being won during the infamous Saigon Press Conferences, hence Cronkite's:

Febrary 27, 1968 Walter Cronkite says "war is now unwinnable."

He was right, since the North Vietnamese Army was the one the played an increasing role and actually took advantage of Viet Cong/National Liberation Front losses to ruthlessly eliminate any southern political movements independent of Hanoi, as our allies failed to 'stand up' and Vietnamization failed.

BTW, shall we quote tracks from the Pentagon Papers that show that the US gov't itself knew the War was essentially "unwinnable," and callously cont'd to send US troops to die knowing this, even admitting as much?

Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Warham
I didn't blame Clinton for any war.

I'm merely pointing out the fact that you're making fun of Bush's national guard service while your favorite president of all-time 'served' over in England.

Can we make fun of the fact that Clinton was against the War he did not serve in, and you guys are for the War that you're not serving in?

Warham
10-19-2006, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Look at the Neocon "cherry-pick" faulty historical parallels by using inflated and discredited "body count" to justify your chickenhawkedness and losing the two-front War on Terr-a...

BTW, the issue was that Westmorland and McNamara kept telling people that the War was being won during the infamous Saigon Press Conferences, hence Cronkite's:

Febrary 27, 1968 Walter Cronkite says "war is now unwinnable."

He was right, since the North Vietnamese Army was the one the played an increasing role and actually took advantage of Viet Cong/National Liberation Front losses to ruthlessly eliminate any southern political movements independent of Hanoi, as our allies failed to 'stand up' and Vietnamization failed.

BTW, shall we quote tracks from the Pentagon Papers that show that the US gov't itself knew the War was essentially "unwinnable," and callously cont'd to send US troops to die knowing this, even admitting as much?

There are no legitimate comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq. The casualty rates are totally different, the conditions and circumstances going into each war were different, and the politics of each are different.

Guitar Shark
10-19-2006, 01:05 PM
Warham, you are becoming more of a parody of yourself with each passing day. Kudos!

Warham
10-19-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Can we make fun of the fact that Clinton was against the War he did not serve in, and you guys are for the War that you're not serving in?

That was always a good excuse. 'conscientious objector' was the proper term, right?

Warham
10-19-2006, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Warham, you are becoming more of a parody of yourself with each passing day. Kudos!

Yeah, I'd hate to be taken as a parody of myself at the Roth Army, a place of intelligence discourse.

My God, what have I become? :rolleyes:

Guitar Shark
10-19-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, I'd hate to be taken as a parody of myself at the Roth Army, a place of intelligence discourse.

My God, what have I become? :rolleyes:

"intelligence discourse" -- that's great! :D

Seriously man, if you'd just stop defending literally every aspect of what's happening in our current administration, it would be a welcome sight.

Warham
10-19-2006, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
"intelligence discourse" -- that's great! :D

Seriously man, if you'd just stop defending literally every aspect of what's happening in our current administration, it would be a welcome sight.

Yeah, it goes along with all the other spelling errors I see here, my own included!

I haven't defended every aspect of his administration, Sharkie. In fact, I've gone on record here being pissed off at many things he's done wrong. The problem is, people see I'm in favor of the war on terror, and think I've given him the rubber stamp approval in total. Not true.

Nobody here asks me my honest reasoned opinion, so why should I give it? This place is nothing but a back 'n forth bitchslap session, so I'm going to go along with it.

LoungeMachine
10-19-2006, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Warham
What branch of the military did Clinton serve in? Somebody refresh my memory.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You never let us down, huh Bot?

What a joke you've become....

LoungeMachine
10-19-2006, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Warham, you are becoming more of a parody of yourself with each passing day. Kudos!


Exactly.


Even Brie and ELVIRA have called this "war" the failing sham it is.....

But not WarBOT.

LoungeMachine
10-19-2006, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Warham


I haven't defended every aspect of his administration, Sharkie. In fact, I've gone on record here being pissed off at many things he's done wrong. The problem is, people see I'm in favor of the war on terror, and think I've given him the rubber stamp approval in total. Not true.


Utter Bullshit.

Other than your weak shots at his immigration "policies", you haven't done anything other than......

1. Back Bush

2. Blame Clinton

3. Attack the Messenger in here

:rolleyes:

DrMaddVibe
10-19-2006, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by Nickdfresh
Can we make fun of the fact that Clinton was against the War he did not serve in, and you guys are for the War that you're not serving in?


No.

Clinton dodged the draft and set up anti-war rallies in a foreign country.

I served.

Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
No.

Clinton dodged the draft and set up anti-war rallies in a foreign country.

I served.

Congratulations on being a very small part of the Republican demographic, and one that had virtually no part in planning this fuck up of a War...

BTW, Kerry kicked ass and killed Viet Cong commies and was lauded by vets that served in his actual crew. So what was your "Swiftboat" excuse for voting for a National Guard Vietnam avoider.

And when I was in, I knew a Nat'l Guard recruiter whose biggest complaint was "the draft/Vietnam-dodging faggots" in the upper echelons of officers/NCOs then still in the Guard...

Keef
10-19-2006, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Warham
Yeah, it goes along with all the other spelling errors I see here, my own included!

I haven't defended every aspect of his administration, Sharkie. In fact, I've gone on record here being pissed off at many things he's done wrong. The problem is, people see I'm in favor of the war on terror, and think I've given him the rubber stamp approval in total. Not true.

Nobody here asks me my honest reasoned opinion, so why should I give it? This place is nothing but a back 'n forth bitchslap session, so I'm going to go along with it.

Let's cut to the chase, shall we?

You have had numerous chances to prove your shitty point of view. Fact remains.. you are a fucking racist pig towards people that you are told to hate..You can't think for yourself... you are a motherfucking parrot.

All in all, guys. it's pointless to talk to, or try to reason with an idiot like this, unless you just like to argue on the net?

The world is hip, most of this country is hip, thankfully. Let's move on and leave these fucks exactly where they need to be left.. to toil.

Nickdfresh
10-19-2006, 09:00 PM
It may come to that soon...

LoungeMachine
10-19-2006, 09:08 PM
Indeed.